Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-04-14

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 14 Aprilioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 262166567

Ekdosh 1

brf1404

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 14 Aprilioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Tis hmeres aytes syzhteitai diejodika sth Boylh to neo forologiko nomosxedio, enw se ligo anamenetai na chfistei epi ths arxhs. To neo forologiko nomosxedio shmatodotei mia pragmatikh allagh stis sxeseis toy kratoys me toys polites. Mexri shmera eixame to monadiko fainomeno, polles epaggelmatikes omades na forologoyntai kata to dokoyn, enw h forodiafygh se polla eleyqera epaggelmata htan - dystyxws- o kanonas. Blepame ton kakws nooymeno ploytismo na menei xwris oysiastiko elegxo, sxedon atimwrhtos.

Htan kai einai apaithsh twn politwn, ayth h katastash na stamathsei. Kai stamata me to neo forologiko systhma, poy apokaqista th forologikh dikaiosynh, epibrabeyei ton entimo forologoymeno polith, ton syneph, enw elegxei kai timwrei ayton poy prospaqei na ejapathsei toys sympolites toy kyriws kai thn Politeia. Ayth einai h mia och toy forologikoy.

H allh och toy apokaqista th fereggyothta toy idioy toy kratoys apenanti stoys polites, mesw ths dikaioterhs katanomhs twn forwn, tis tomes, toys neoys elegktikoys mhxanismoys, me toys opoioys qa ginontai kai oi diastayrwseis twn stoixeiwn. Kai fainetai jekaqara se oloys, h isxyrh boylhsh ths Politeias na patajei fainomena forodiafyghs kai foroapofyghs.

Kanoyme etsi, ws koinwnia, ena bhma mprosta, pros thn empedwsh ths forologikhs dikaiosynhs poy einai kai to zhtoymeno kai th diamorfwsh mias syllogikhs forologikhs syneidhshs.

Antilambanomaste, fysika, oti den mporoyme na lysoyme me ena nomoqetiko keimeno ola ta problhmata poy yparxoyn. Qetoyme, omws, isxyrotates baseis gia thn epilysh xronizontwn problhmatwn kai malista, se syntomo xroniko diasthma.

Epipleon, desmeythkame ws kybernhsh, apo thn prwth hmera, oti ta zhthmata ths Paideias qa apoteloyn apo tis prwtes mas proteraiothtes, to prwto mas melhma kai pws qa doqei idiaiterh shmasia, para th dysxerestath oikonomikh sygkyria.

Ayto akribws prajame me thn paroysiash, xqes, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, toy polynomosxedioy gia thn anadiorganwsh ths Paideias, me to opoio gia prwth fora, edw kai dekaeties, dromologoyntai shmantikotates tomes se ola ta epipeda ths ekpaideyshs.

Mesa apo sobarh kai entatikh diaboyleysh, me oloys toys emplekomenoys foreis, alla kai plhqos politwn, qetoyme stadiaka telos ston ergasiako mesaiwna twn wromisqiwn, poy apoteloysan ton teleytaio kriko ths ergasiakhs alysidas. Anamorfwnoyme ton ergasiako bio kai to profil toy paidagwgoy apo thn eisagwgh toy sto leitoyrghma, alla kai kata th diarkeia toy ergasiakoy toy bioy.

Epipleon eisagoyme, thn ajiologhsh toy ekpaideytikoy ergoy kai thn koinwnikh logodosia apenanti se goneis kai se polites. Diasfalizoyme etsi ta poiotika xarakthristika kai th synexh egrhgorsh toy ekpaideytikoy poy qa analabei th morfwsh kai thn koinwnikopoihsh twn paidiwn mas. Ajizei na anaferqei oti to polynomosxedio lambanei ypoch th dysxerh oikonomikh sygkyria kai syneisferei sth genikoterh prospaqeia poy kataballetai apo thn kybernhsh, gia th sygkrathsh twn dapanwn.

Sta agrotika zhthmata, me to neo plaisio poy prowqoyme, anadiorganwnoyme ton agrotiko xwro, me koinwnika kai oikonomika krithria. Dhmioyrgoyme mia nea bash dedomenwn, opws einai to Mhtrwo Agrotwn kai Agrotikwn Ekmetalleysewn, etsi wste na einai dynath h oysiastikh parakoloyqhsh ths agrotikhs drasthriothtas kai h sthrijh ths, me sebasmo sto dhmosio xrhma.

Ergazomaste pragmatika kai oysiastika se ola ta metwpa. Antimetwpizoyme me sobarothta kai apofasistikothta, sysswreymena problhmata. Allazoyme pagiwmenes nootropies dekaetiwn kai rizwmenes opisqodromikes antilhceis. Ayth einai h apaithsh twn politwn kai gi` ayto dinoyme kaqhmerinh maxh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos zhthse apo toys ypoyrgoys toy, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, an den kanw laqos, na mhn kanoyn dhlwseis gia qemata poy den gnwrizoyn, na enhmerwnoyn kai na mhn prokaloyn tetoioy eidoys problhmata me diafores emfaniseis toys. Mporeite na moy peite, apo poioys ypoyrgoys, o Prwqypoyrgos einai dysaresthmenos gia tetoioy eidoys symperifores;

PETALWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos ekane mia systash kai mia genikoterh anafora. Kaqe ypoyrgos exei thn eyqynh toy ergoy toy kai oi ypoyrgoi ayths ths kybernhshs kanoyn mia ejairetika sklhrh doyleia, poy shmainei oti exoyn poly pio ayjhmenh eyqynh.

Yparxei ena qema me thn oikonomia mas to teleytaio diasthma. Dhlwseis poy ginontai h poy den ginontai kai apodidontai se ypotiqemena anwtera kybernhtika stelexh, anwnymws, dinoyn eykairies, dikaiologies kai profaseis se kapoioys, na yponomeysoyn thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Se ayta ta plaisia egine kai h anafora apo ton Prwqypoyrgo, etsi wste na mh dinoyme dikaiwmata se kanenan gia na symperiferetai me ayton ton tropo sthn Ellada.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Profanws, qa diapistwse oti kapoioi kanoyn astoxes dhlwseis, pantws. Etsi den einai; Alliws, giati na pei to aytonohto;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei kamia sygkekrimenh diapistwsh. Sas anefera prohgoymenws oti kai apo dhlwseis poy se diaforetikes epoxes den qa eixan th sygkekrimenh barythta kai qa htan sta plaisia twn dhlwsewn kai twn agwniwn kaqe politikoy, dinontai aformes kai eykairies gia kapoioys, na tis xrhsimopoioyn kai na exoyme ta apotelesmata poy eidame teleytaia.

KOYTRAS: Eipate prin oti to forologiko shmatodotei mia pragmatikh allagh ths symperiforas toy kratoys pros toys polites. Kai epeidh akoysame kai xqes ton ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn, k. Papakwnstantinoy kai exei anaferqei kai sto parelqon kai apo ton k. Pagkalo oti qa perikopoyn oi symbasioyxoi kata 30%, qelw na sas rwthsw, ean qa to peite stoys symbasioyxoys, qa enhmerwsete toys symbasioyxoys, wste na programmatisoyn tis zwes toys; Epishs, xqes o k. Papakwnstantinoy, epanelabe kati poy eixe pei o k. Pagkalos, oti to kalokairi oses yphresies sygxwneyqoyn h katarghqoyn kai pacoyn oi monimes qeseis, payei aytomatws kai h qesh. Qa enhmerwsete toys polites nwritera, na programmatisoyn tis zwes toys;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros toys symbasioyxoys, gnwrizoyme oti einai ena ergasiako fainomeno, to opoio prwta ap` ola adikei toys idioys toys ergazomenoys, alla dhmioyrgei kai streblwseis sthn ergasia kai stis yphresies poy prosferontai sto kratos. Einai gnwsto oti edw kai dekaeties, xrhsimopoiwntas toys symbasioyxoys kai tis poly elastikes morfes ergasias, nomimes kai mh nomimes, se ena poly megalo meros, yphrxe mia ekmetalleysh kai twn ergazomenwn, alla den yphrxe kai h sygkekrimenh apodotikothta sto dhmosio, peran toy oti yphrxe kai mia streblwsh kai sthn katanomh twn dapanwn. Exoyme pei polles fores oti einai ejairetika arnhtiko to oti den gnwrizoyme posoi ypallhloi, symbasioyxoi kai monimoi, ameibontai apo to ellhniko dhmosio. Ara, einai ypoxrewsh ayths ths kybernhshs na noikokyrecei ta pragmata. Einai ypoxrewsh na dhmioyrghsoyme ena tetoio qesmiko plaisio etsi wste toylaxiston na gnwrizoyme, posoi prepei na plhrwnontai apo to ellhniko dhmosio kai posoi den prepei na plhrwnontai. Sta plaisia ayta, ginetai kai qa ginei mia ajiologhsh - kai to exoyme pei apo thn prwth hmera ths diakybernhshs mas- twn anagkwn toy Dhmosioy gia to poies symbaseis qa prepei na ejakoloyqhsoyn kai poies einai anagkaies, etsi wste na parataqoyn h na laboyn alles morfes paroxhs yphresiwn pros to ellhniko dhmosio. Ayto qa ginei me prosektika bhmata. Qa ginei me mia ejairetikh, nomimh meqodeysh, etsi wste kai oi ergazomenoi na gnwrizoyn to ergasiako toys mellon, poy einai para poly shmantikh parametros, alla kai to kratos - epiteloys- na dhmioyrghsei kanones ergasias mesa stoys idioys toys kolpoys toy.

KOYTRAS: Ejetazete apolyseis dhmosiwn ypallhlwn poy qa katarghqoyn oi qeseis toys h ejetazete metatajeis; Qa apolyqoyn;

PETALWTHS: Safws kai den ejetazoyme apolyseis dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Ayto einai jekaqaro. Aplws, ean katarghqoyn kapoia nomika proswpa h kapoioi organismoi kai foreis qa yparxei idiaiterh merimna, etsi wste kai me metatajeis na kalyfqoyn oi anagkes toy Dhmosioy. Fysika prwto mas melhma einai na katoxyrwsoyme thn ergasiakh qesh aytwn twn ergazomenwn. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, to krithrio to opoio qa xrhsimopoihsoyme kai se ayth thn periptwsh - kai einai to monadiko kai isxyrotero mallon krithrio- einai to dhmosio symferon, to opoio qa yphrethqei me ton katallhlotero tropo.

SEGKOS: Prosfata, o antiproedros ths kybernhshs eqese ek neoy qema arshs ths monimothtas twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, proxqes. Aphxei ayto tis epishmes kybernhtikes qeseis;

PETALWTHS: O antiproedros ths kybernhshs den eqese qema arshs ths monimothtas. Den tiqetai tetoio zhthma apo thn kybernhsh. Profanws, oi syzhthseis poy ginontai einai sta plaisia aytwn poy anefera prohgoymenws, giati kapote qa prepei na doyme ti ginetai me to ellhniko dhmosio, me toys ergazomenoys, me to pws parexoyn thn yphresia toys, me to poioi parexoyn tis yphresies toys sto ellhniko dhmosio, pws plhrwnontai kai me poioys tropoys plhrwnontai. Kai ayto einai h stoixeiwdhs ypoxrewsh mias dikaihs kybernhshs.

TSAKIRHS: Kyrie ypoyrge, qelete na mas peite, oti edw kai eji mhnes akomh den exete maqei poioi doyleyoyn sto Dhmosio; Poso prepei na paei, ena xrono gia na maqete;

PETALWTHS: Emeis prospaqoyme kai qa baloyme telos stis paqogeneies kai sta aparadekta fainomena poy epikratoyn edw kai para polles dekaeties. Apo thn prwth stigmh ergazomaste gi` ayto. Apo thn prwth stigmh, eidika to ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn syllegei stoixeia se synergasia me ola ta ypoyrgeia ta opoia apasxoloyn dhmosioys ypallhloys, etsi wste me prosektika bhmata, prospaqwntas na krathsoyme isorropies, prospaqwntas na krathsoyme kai na thrhsoyme, na sebastoyme ta dikaiwmata twn ergazomenwn, na exoyme isxyres apofaseis. Kai bebaiws, apofaseis poy den qa aforoyn mono toys sygkekrimenoys ergazomenoys, alla to mellon twn dhmosiwn yphresiwn. Kai ayto qelei prosoxh kai sebasmo. Kai ayto kanoyme giati den ergazomaste gia dyo kai gia treis mhnes, ergazomaste wste na allajoyme thn pagiwmenh katastash pollwn dekaetiwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ep` aytoy. Sas rwthse o synadelfos pote qa jerei h kybernhsh - ap` th stigmh poy den jerei, profanws, mexri twra- posoi doyleyoyn sto dhmosio tomea. Ti ``isorropies''; Apanthsate gia isorropies, apanthsate gia diafora alla qemata. Pote qa jerete posoi doyleyoyn;

PETALWTHS: Oi ergazomenoi sto dhmosio tomea einai pollwn morfwn ergasias, pollwn taxythtwn, pollwn eidikothtwn, pollwn prajewn -nomimwn kai mh nomimwn- proslhchs. Akribws, panw se ayta emeis ergazomaste me prosoxh, etsi wste apokaqistwntas th nomimothta kai epanalambanw me teliko krithrio to dhmosio symferon, na bgaloyme mia akrh - kai qa th bgaloyme syntoma- sto ellhniko dhmosio.

POLYMEROS: Poso konta h poso makria brisketai h xwra mas apo to na energopoihsei to mhxanismo sthrijhs apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai to DNT;

PETALWTHS: Emeis exoyme tonisei, polles fores kai to epanalambanw, oti exoyme ws skopo na daneizomaste apo thn eleyqerh agora me tis kalyteres synqhkes daneismoy. Emeis blepoyme ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs, ton opoio qewroyme oti einai megalh epityxia, ws dixty asfaleias kai etsi ton antimetwpizoyme, mexri stigmhs. Qa prospaqhsoyme kai qa prospaqoyme na daneistoyme me kalyteroys oroys apo thn agora. Fysika, ean xreiastei, qa energopoihsoyme ayto to mhxanismo sthrijhs.

MPEQANH: Hqela na sas rwthsw kai egw, me aformh tis dhlwseis toy k. Pagkaloy, ean h kybernhsh skopeyei na proxwrhsei se systash Ejetastikhs Epitrophs gia ton OTE kai thn Olympiakh kai an telika qa exoyme Ejetastikh gia to qema ths oikonomias kai ths diakybernhsews ths Neas Dhmokratias.

PETALWTHS: Emeis ayto poy exoyme na kanoyme kai poy mporw na sas pw ws genikh arxh einai na apokaqistoyme th nomimothta pros xarh toy dhmosioy symferontos kai opoy exoyme stoixeia, endeijeis h opoy krinoyme oti qa prepei na diereynhqoyn eyqynes politikwn proswpwn, qa energopoioyntai kai Ejetastikes Epitropes. Ayto, omws, den apotelei oyte mpoysoyla, alla oyte kai aytoskopo. Emeis exoyme na kanoyme me thn pragmatikh oikonomia. Me th maxh poy dinoyme gia thn pragmatikh oikonomia. Ayto einai to kyrio melhma mas ayth thn epoxh, ayto to dyskolo xroniko diasthma poy dianyoyme. Eimaste ypoxrewmenoi apo to Syntagma kai apo to nomo, opoy yparxoyn stoixeia paranomwn kai mh nomimwn energeiwn twn kratikwn leitoyrgwn, na ta diereynoyme me to deonta tropo.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, apo mia synanthsh poy egine shmera anamesa sto Geniko Grammatea toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn kai stoys epikefalhs twn eforiwn, fanhke oti oi perissoteres efories exoyn bgei ektos topoy. Pws tote eseis qa mporesete na ylopoihsete tis prodiagrafes toy Programmatos Staqerothtas, otan ta esoda ektroxiazontai;

PETALWTHS: Den symmerizomai oti ektroxiazontai ta esoda. To erwthma sas exei dyo parametroys. Prwton, oti prospaqoyme me thn eisagwgh aytoy toy neoy forologikoy systhmatos, na kanoyme akribws ayto: Na apokatasthsoyme th drash ths kratikhs mhxanhs, na qespisoyme neoys foroeispraktikoys mhxanismoys, na energopoihsoyme hdh qesmoqethmenoys foroeispraktikoys mhxanismoys, etsi wste epiteloys aytoi oi opoioi ofeiloyn na katabaloyn toys foroys toys, na toys katabaloyn. Kai gi` ayto, ginetai mia poly megalh prospaqeia, gnwrizontas kai sto ti dyskoles oikonomika epoxes zoyme. Apo ekei kai pera, to Programma Staqerothtas ylopoieitai me ton kalytero tropo kai fysika den ylopoieitai aytomata. Gi` ayto akribws ginontai kai aytes oi synanthseis. Giati qa prepei na drasthriopoihqoyn oloi ekeinoi oi mhxanismoi poy qa symballoyn - kai exoyn ypoxrewsh na symballoyn- sthn taxyterh kai oysiastikoterh ylopoihsh toy Programmatos Staqerothtas.

Alla apo toys deiktes poy exoyme, mexri stigmhs, fainetai oti ayto to Programma trexei me ton kalytero tropo. Fysika, briskomaste sthn arxh kai briskomaste se ena stadio poy mporoyme na drasthriopoihqoyme akomh perissotero, para tis elleiceis ths kratikhs mhxanhs kai tis paqogeneies tis opoies antimetwpizoyme.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h kybernhsh ti anamenei apo thn apocinh synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton Antwnh Samara; Elpizei akomh sth synainesh h yparxei mia allh strathgikh thn opoia qelete na moirasteite mazi mas;

PETALWTHS: O k. Samaras kalese dhmosiws ton Prwqypoyrgo na ton enhmerwsei gia thn oikonomia kai gia tis teleytaies ejelijeis. O Prwqypoyrgos apodexqhke ayth thn prosklhsh kai qa ginei ayth h enhmerwsh. Mia qesmikh enhmerwsh, opws epitassei to Syntagma, alla kai etsi opws epiqymoyn kai o Prwqypoyrgos, alla kai o k. Samaras. Apo ekei kai pera, ws pros th synainesh, emeis eimaste aytoi oi opoioi, edw kai poly megalo xroniko diasthma, xwris na exei apokalyfqei h pragmatikh katastash, legame oti apaiteitai synainesh, giati oi dyskolies kai oi proklhseis einai poly megales. Ara, einai sto xeri ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, alla kai olhs ths antipoliteyshs, na antilhfqei kai to megeqos twn eyqynwn ths -prohgoymenwn kai twrinwn kai nyn eyqynwn- etsi wste na mporesoyme ws xwra na bgoyme apo ayth th dyskolh oikonomikh krish.

PITTARAS: Dhladh, o k. Papandreoy mporei na zhthsei synainesh apo ton k. Samara gia na energopoihqei o mhxanismos sthrijhs;

PETALWTHS: Den apaiteitai synainesh toy k. Samara gia thn energopoihsh toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs. H synainesh einai ena diarkes zhtoymeno kai mia diarkhs prosklhsh apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. Enapokeitai sta kommata ths antipoliteyshs, ean th dexontai kai an synaisqanontai thn poly megalh eyqynh poy exoyn.

TSAKIRHS: Se ena allo qema. Hqela na sas pw oti shmera eixame kapoies dhlwseis toy prwhn dioikhth ths EYP k. Koranth, sto BHMA FM, o opoios eipe oti meta thn epiqesh sthn Amerikanikh Presbeia ton Ianoyario toy 2007, me entolh toy tote ypoyrgoy Dhmosias Tajhs k. Polydwra, h parakoloyqhsh toy Maziwth perase apo thn EYP sthn Antitromokratikh kai opws eipe den gnwrizei ean telika yphrje parakoloyqhsh. Exete kapoio sxolio;

PETALWTHS: Gnwrizw th dhlwsh toy prwhn dioikhth ths EYP k. Koranth. Den qa kanw kanena sxolio. Ayto, omws, poy mporw na pw genikws einai oti kai h kybernhsh -ennoeitai se epipedo politikhs hgesias- alla kai h ellhnikh Astynomia ergazontai etsi opws exoyn ypoxrewsh na ergazontai, aqoryba kai oysiastika. Ayth einai kai h diafora mas. Apo ekei kai pera, me th deoysa sobarothta kai th deoysa cyxraimia, prospaqoyme na baloyme telos se ayto to fainomeno ths tromokratias apo opoy kai an proerxetai. Kai fainetai oti arxise na apodidei. H doyleia, omws, poy apaiteitai akomh einai poly megalh. Einai doyleia sklhrh, doyleia me sobarothta kai cyxraimia kai se ayth thn kateyqynsh blepoyme oti kineitai kai h ellhnikh Astynomia.

Se ayto to shmeio, qa hqela na anaferw oti emeis katadikazoyme kaqe morfh bias kai kaqe morfh yposthrijhs bias, kati poy blepoyme na ginetai to teleytaio diasthma. Kai mia apo aytes tis morfes yposthrijhs bias eixame kai kata thn katalhch twn grafeiwn ths ESHEA, opoy eidame na meterxontai kapoioi symperiforwn, oi opoies einai kai aparadektes kai paranomes.

SPANOY: Pisteyete oti einai endeiktiko ths sobarothtas ths Astynomias sthn opoia anaferqhkate, to gegonos oti diarreei h dikografia apospasmatika sta MME;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den gnwrizw ean oi diarroes aytes einai pragmatika sobares kai ean exoyn ypostash. Alla einai safes oti oloi ypoxreoyntai na throyn th mystikothta, kata th diarkeia ths proanakrishs kai ths anakrishs. Osoi diarreoyn, alla kai osoi dexontai aytes tis diarroes qa prepei na analogistoyn kai tis eyqynes.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Problhmatizei k. Ypoyrge, thn ellhnikh kybernhsh to gegonos oti xqes daneisthkame me yperbolika epitokia; Me thn ennoia oti se sxesh me prin treis mhnes ta idia omologa eixan to 1/3, to 1/4 epitokio, enw twra eixame diplasiasmo peripoy;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti emeis parakoloyqoyme tis synqhkes daneismoy. Tis parakoloyqoyme apo poly konta kai bgazoyme ta symperasmata mas. Xqes, yperkalyfqhke to poso, alla emeis ayto poy kanoyme einai na parakoloyqoyme, etsi wste na apofasizoyme kai thn katallhlh symperifora mas ws pros to megalo qema toy daneismoy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Pera apo to na parakoloyqeite, problhmatizeste kiolas me tis sygkekrimenes...

PETALWTHS: Ayto proanefera. Den parakoloyqoyme apo makria, parakoloyqoyme stena ypo thn ennoia oti emeis xeirizomaste -kai malista me ypeyqyno kai sobaro tropo- to daneismo ths xwras.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Sas epishmainw k. Ypoyrge oti otan o Prwqypoyrgos anhggeile ta perioristika metra, tis perikopes misqwn k.t.l., ta epitokia kai o daneismos ths xwras ginotan me 6,3-6,4. Ayth thn wra, ta spreads odhgoyn se ena daneismo peri toy 7% gia ta omologa 10etoys diarkeias. Aytos den einai eparkhs logos gia na parei kapoies sygkekrimenes apofaseis h ellhnikh kybernhsh, opws na anakoinwsei thn politikh ths boylhshs, na katafygei amesa sto mhxanismo, molis lhjoyn kai oi typikes kai oi diadikastikes leptomereies aytoy toy mhxanismoy;

PETALWTHS: Emeis emmenoyme sthn apoch mas oti qeloyme na daneizomaste apo thn eleyqerh agora. Parakoloyqoyme tis ejelijeis, etsi wste na apofasizoyme, me ton kalytero tropo, gia to dhmosio symferon. Kai to lew ayto, giati mporei na fainetai mia logikh skech, alla yparxoyn para polles parametroi. To qema einai para poly eyaisqhto kai to antimetwpizoyme me ton tropo poy prepei na to antimetwpizoyme, me sobarothta kai cyxraimia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Sas epishmainw k. Ypoyrge kai sygxwrhste me gia thn epimonh oti h Germania ejakoloyqei na proballei zhthmata se sxesh me ayto. H ellhnikh kybernhsh, ean telika h Germania den symmetexei sto mhxanismo sthrijhs, qa epimeinei sth diathrhsh aytoy toy mhxanismoy; Qa einai ikanopoihmenh apo thn yparjh aytoy toy mhxanismoy, estw kai xwris thn paroysia ths Germanias;

PETALWTHS: Genikws, ayto poy mporw na sas pw einai oti eimaste ikanopoihmenoi sto oti yparxei aytos o mhxanismos. Exei apofasistei apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai malista oxi me eykolo tropo. Malista exoyn prosdioristei kai oi texnikoi oroi me ton kalytero tropo kai ejakoloyqei na ginetai ayto. Einai shmantiko gia emas na yparxei ayto to dixty asfaleias.

KOYTRAS: Se poioys tomeis toy kybernhtikoy ergoy katagrafontai kaqysterhseis kai odhghse ayto to pragma ton Prwqypoyrgo na pei oti sto epomeno Ypoyrgiko Symboylio qa mpoyn xronodiagrammata se kaqe ypoyrgeio. To deytero poy qelw na sas rwthsw einai me ta stoixeia poy exete ews ayth th stigmh, stis 15 Maioy thn pername qetika thn ajiologhsh h qa perimenoyme kai nea metra;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola na perimenoyme na erqei h 15h Maioy. Nea metra, safws kai den qa yparjoyn. Ta metra poy phrame einai arketa. To qema einai na ylopoihqoyne. Mexri stigmhs eimaste ikanopoihmenoi, ayto, omws, den shmainei oti den qeloyme na enteinontai oi prospaqeies olwn mas, etsi wste na ylopoieitai me ton kalytero kai taxytero tropo to Programma Staqerothtas, giati apo ayto krinomaste se polla epipeda. To prwto poy me rwthsate exei amesh sxesh me ton kalytero syntonismo, ton opoio ejhggeile o Prwqypoyrgos. Giati kai oi xronoi kai oi katastaseis einai tetoies poy mas piezoyn na yparxei h oso to dynaton taxyterh kai kalyterh ylopoihsh toy Programmatos. Gia ayto, oytws h allws, doyleyei sklhra, sysswmh h kybernhsh.

KOYTRAS: Kaqysterhseis katagrafontai;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxoyn kaqysterhseis sto kybernhtiko ergo. Ayto exei na kanei mono me ton syntonismo, giati antilambanomaste oti otan oi proqesmies einai toso konta, qa prepei to paragomeno ergo na einai sympyknwmeno kai na einai stis sygkekrimenes proqesmies.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe xqes h Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn synainese sth xrhsh kamerwn ypo oroys. Qelete na kanete ena sxolio;

PETALWTHS: H Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn einai mia anejarthth Arxh. Emeis exoyme topoqethqei panw sto sygkekrimeno zhthma ws antipoliteysh. Ayth einai h arxh mas. Qa apofasisoyme otan erqei pros syzhthsh to sxetiko nomosxedio.

PITTARAS: Qelw na sas rwthsw, epeidh xqes hsastan sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, ektos apo to qema toy sxoleioy, syzhthqhkan kai ena allo nomosxedio gia toys agrotes...

PETALWTHS: ... gia to mhtrwo agrotwn.

PITTARAS: Qelw na mas peite ti akribws synebh kai h k. Mpatzelh anagkasthke na parei pisw ena megalo meros aytoy toy nomosxedioy, meta apo tis safeis parathrhseis toy k. Pagkaloy kai toy k. Benizeloy.

PETALWTHS: Den einai etsi, oti phre pisw to nomosxedio meta tis safeis parathrhseis twn synadelfwn. H alhqeia kai h pragmatikothta einai oti eixame desmeytei programmatika gia na dhmioyrghsoyme ena neo nomoqetiko plaisio gia tis syndikalistikes organwseis ston agrotiko xwro. Einai poly megalo kai kombiko shmeio to na yparxei enas syndikalismos, tetoios ston agrotiko xwro, poy na einai eleyqeros, sygxronos, epikairopoihmenos kai gia ayto to logo yphrje kai h nomoqetikh protash toy ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs. Epeidh, omws, to zhthma einai nomika synqeto, aposyrqhke h syzhthsh, prokeimenoy na yparjei mia peraiterw epejergasia twn nomotexnikwn orwn. Otan qa einai etoimo to nomosxedio, qa epanelqei giati h arxikh boylhsh mas einai dedomenh.

PITTARAS: Dhladh, eixe paei aproetoimasth h Ypoyrgos.

PETALWTHS: Kaqoloy. H k. Ypoyrgos htan para poly proetoimasmenh, alla akribws gia ayto ginontai oi syzhthseis sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, gia na ginei kai mia oysiastikh syzhthsh, alla kai se qemata nomoqetikhs epejergasias, opoy xreiazetai, na yparxei parembash. Opws antilambaneste, emeis eimaste mia kybernhsh poy doyleyei, poy syzhtame sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai poy exoyme to qarros na leme ta pragmata me to onoma toys.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Mporeite na mas peite poios einai o rolos toy klimakioy toy DNT poy episkeptetai kaqe toso thn Ellada sth syntajh toy Asfalistikoy. Kai to rwtaw ayto, dioti ta melh toy Institoytoy Ergasias ths GSEE afhnoyn na ennohqei oti th syntajh toy exei analabei ej oloklhroy ayto to klimakio kai oxi to Ypoyrgeio Ergasias, opws qa eprepe.

PETALWTHS: Ean thn eixe analabei thn syntajh toy to klimakio toy DNT, nomizw oti o armodios Ypoyrgos o k. Loberdos den qa briskotan sto nosokomeio. Qa htan ofelos pros ayton. Safws kai den einai etsi. Emeis exoyme tis arxes mas, exoyme tis baseis, panw stis opoies pisteyoyme oti prepei na xtistei ena neo Asfalistiko Systhma. Exoyme, dystyxws, mia pragmatikothta, h opoia koybalaei polles paqogeneies apo to parelqon kai to armodio ypoyrgeio, opws kai olh h kybernhsh, kanoyn mia sobarh doyleia mesa apo ena sobaro koinwniko dialogo kai diaboyleysh, etsi wste na katalhjoyme se ena neo Asfalistiko Systhma, kati poy den kataferan polles kybernhseis sto parelqon. To DNT opoy symmetexei, se ola ta epipeda oxi mono me to Asfalistiko nomosxedio, diaqetei ekeines tis texnikes gnwseis, etsi wste na bohqhqoyme se kapoies arxes, kai aytos einai o monos rolos toy. Kai bebaia as mhn jexname oti to DNT erxetai kata takta xronika diasthmata - den erxetai mono twra - kai eimaste melos toy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na sas rwthsw to ejhs: Giati blepw oti epistrefete se ena montelo ekpaideyshs, to opoio to ypagoreyoyn oi ``soyblakeri'' ths eparxias kai oi idiokthtes ``gkarsonieras''. Den einai akritos laikismos na katargeite th bash toy deka etsi kai na epitrepete na pernoyn spoydastes me tria, me tessera, me dyo, me ena isws, me tetoioys baqmoys kai na epidoteite mia tetoia ekpaideysh apo ton kratiko Proypologismo anti na anabaqmizete oysiastika tis spoydes oswn pragmatika qeloyn na spoydasoyn;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai mia och, poy omws den exei sxesh me thn pragmatikothta ypo thn ennoia oti emeis den efeyrame twra thn katarghsh ths bashs toy deka, alla kai ws antipoliteysh to PASOK eixe dhlwsei oti einai yper ths katarghshs ths bashs toy deka gia sygkekrimenoys logoys. Kai oi logoi aytoi einai kai paidagwgikoi, kyriws, kai koinwnikoi kai oxi bebaiws gia na enisxysoyme tis ``soyblakeri'', opws eipate, ths eparxias. Htan proeklogikh kai programmatikh mas desmeysh kai kaqoloy laikistikh. Hdh h armodia Ypoyrgos k. Diamantopoyloy polles fores ston dhmosio logo ths alla kai sto xqesino Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, exei ejeidikeysei oloys toys logoys, gia toys opoioys anaferqhkame kai apofasisame thn katarghsh ths bashs toy deka. Kai oi logoi aytoi einai polloi, einai poly sygkekrimenoi. Einai mesa apo episthmonikes analyseis kai an qelete na toys analysoyme kai edw. Alla, na pw kai kati allo. To na estiazoyme apo ena megalo systhma poy emeis onomazoyme ekpaideysh, poy onomazoyme neo sxoleio, sthn katarghsh ths bashs toy deka kai mono, nomizw, oti adikei olh thn ergasia kai thn diadikasia ths ekpaideytikhs metarryqmishs poy ginetai me ayto to nomosxedio.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na rwthsw, se posa akomh xwria sxediazei h kybernhsh na ftiajei TEI kai Panepisthmia;

PETALWTHS: Se kanena, giati ta krithria ta dika mas einai teleiws diaforetika apo ayta poy eixe h Nea Dhmokratia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh, epi kybernhsewn PASOK, yphrjan ola ayta san manitaria sthn ellhnikh eparxia...

PETALWTHS: Den yphrjan epi kybernhsews PASOK. Epi kybernhsews PASOK ginotan mia diaforetikh katanomh. Exw stoixeia poy mporw na sas apodeijw oti ta perissotera TEI kai alles sxoles, oi opoies dhmioyrgoytan protoy yparjei h stoixeiwdhs ypodomh, eginan epi Neas Dhmokratias. Alla, oytws h allws, emeis den prepei na menoyme sto parelqon. Phgainoyme mprosta kai epeidh phgainoyme mprosta eimaste apofasismenoi - kai to deixnoyme - aytes tis paqogeneies na tis stamathsoyme. Mono krithrio einai h ekpaideytikh eparkeia, h anabaqmish toy ekpaideytikoy mas systhmatos, to opoio exei polles ateleies kai epibarynei ekpaideytika, oikonomika kai koinwnika thn Politeia.

PITTARAS: O k. Panaretos prepei na aisqanetai dikaiwmenos apo thn katarghsh ths bashs toy deka;

PETALWTHS: Gia poio logo;

PITTARAS: Eseis ton eixate epikrinei emmesws oti kakws eixe ayth thn topoqethsh kai malista eixate pei tote, pws thn politikh toy ypoyrgeioy Paideias thn diamorfwnei h Ypoyrgos.

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, thn eyqynh thn exei h ypoyrgos kai to xqesino nomosxedio h ypoyrgos k. Diamantopoyloy to aneptyje.

Sas eyxaristw.

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