Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-04-08

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 8 Aprilioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 260889211

Ekdosh 1

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KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 8 Aprilioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Xairete.

Sthn prosfath Synodo Koryfhs ths EE, h Ellada phre ayto poy zhthse: Mia jekaqarh apofash sthrijhs, basismenh se ena sygkekrimeno mhxanismo, me sygkekrimena xarakthristika. H apofash ayth kriqhke ws mia epityxia, oxi mono ths xwras mas, alla genikotera ths EE, h opoia dhmioyrgei, pleon, ena dixty asfaleias, gyrw apo tis xwres poy antimetwpizoyn h qa antimetwpisoyn problhma oikonomikhs fysews sto mellon. H Ellada me thn apofash ayth, opws dhlwse kai o Prwqypoyrgos Giwrgos Papandreoy, brisketai pleon se ena pedio poy einai diaxeirisimo. Se ayth thn apofash emmenoyme kai me aythn thn apofash proxwroyme. Anaktoyme dieqnws th xamenh mas ajiopistia kai ayto fainetai jekaqara toso apo tis dhlwseis twn etairwn mas kai ajiwmatoyxwn ths EE, me ton pio epishmo tropo kai sigoyra oxi mesw dhqen dhlwsewn, fhmologiwn, anwnymias kai diarrown. H ajiopistia kai h diafaneia yphrje gia emas, meizon zhthma, apo thn prwth hmera ths diakybernhshs. Kai thn katakthsame me tolmh kai apofasistikothta poy epideijame dieqnws. Enapokeitai, pleon, se emas na synexizoyme thn ylopoihsh toy Programmatos Staqerothtas, Anaptyjhs kai Anasygkrothshs ths xwras, wste na apallagoyme dia pantos, kai oxi mono sto jeperasma ayths ths krishs, apo tis gnwstes xronies paqogeneies.

Se ayto to plaisio, tiqetai kai to forologiko nomosxedio, to opoio syzhteitai kai shmera. Ena tolmhro nomosxedio poy fernei sth xwra mas mia forologikh metarryqmish, th megalyterh forologikh metarryqmish poy exei ginei tis teleytaies dekaeties, meta apo thn analytikh kai epwfelh gia oloys - kai apaithtikh malista- diaboyleysh me toys koinwnikoys etairoys. Katatiqetai se eji mhnes apo thn analhch ths diakybernhshs ths xwras, se ena xrono poy me ayta ta dedomena, me aytes tis synqhkes kai me tis allages poy qeloyme na kanoyme, krinetai oti einai akrws ikanopoihtikos. Exei prokaqorismeno stoxo, ena rizika diaforetiko forologiko plaisio, antikeimeniko kai dikaiotero, me poines, epiteloys, gi aytoys poy systhmatika forodiafeygoyn.

Xqes, opws gnwrizete, syzhthqhke sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio to nomosxedio toy ypoyrgeioy Periballontos, poy prowqei mia diaforetikoy typoy anaptyjh, den epibarynei ton proypologismo, alla antiqeta ejoikonomei xrhmata gia ekei opoy xreiazontai. Dhladh, qesmoqetei parallhla kainotomes periballontikes kai poleodomikes ryqmiseis, anti na exoyme thn eispraktikh logikh, poy yphrje apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai poy fysika den telesforhse. Sth synexeia akoloyqei h asfalistikh metarryqmish, ena poly megalo tolmhma sto opoio ofeiloyme na syneisferoyme oloi, kaqws kai h dioikhtikh kai perifereiakh anadiarqrwsh ths xwras, to gnwsto sxedio ``Kallikraths'', to opoio den exei na kanei mono me thn Topikh Aytodioikhsh, alla kai me thn idia th leitoyrgia toy epitelikoy kratoys.

Aytes oi diarqrwtikes allages, aytes oi shmantikes tomes apoteloyn gia emas thn apth pragmatikothta ths metabashs se ena allo montelo anaptyjhs, ths xrhsths dioikhshs ths xwras kai ekplhrwshs ths apaithshs twn politwn gia allages poy qa diaforopoihsoyn rizika kai to kratos, thn Politeia, alla kai thn kaqhmerinothta twn sympolitwn mas.

Telos, mia anakoinwsh gia ena qema poy parakoloyqeite apo to prwi. Oi pakistanikes Arxes enhmerwsan, shmera to prwi, ton apestalmeno toy prwqypoyrgoy G. Papandreoy sto Islamampant, presbh ek proswpikothtwn k. D. Dollh, oti o apaxqeis eqelonths sthn pediada twn Kalas, k. Qanashs Leroynhs, exei apeleyqerwqei apo toys apagwgeis toy. Symfwna me thn idia enhmerwsh, o Q. Leroynhs, poy epikoinwnhse thlefwnika me ton k. Dollh kai ton enhmerwse oti einai kala sthn ygeia toy, qa paroysiastei sthn ellhnikh presbeia ston Islamampant. An ola pane kala -kai prepei na pane kala- ayrio to prwi qa metaferqei sthn Aqhna me meso poy qa diaqesei h ellhnikh kybernhsh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Qelw na staqw se ayto me to opoio jekinhsate th dhlwsh sas. Milate gia dixty asfaleias, me dedomeno oti ta teleytaia dyo eikositetrawra ginetai mia mikrh kolash, se o,ti afora gyrw apo thn katastash ths oikonomias, sta xrhmatisthria, ta spreads. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, an h kybernhsh sxediazei h brisketai se diapragmateyseis gia na prosfygei sto amesa orato mellon, dhladh entos twn epomenwn hmerwn, se ayto to dixty asfaleias me thn oikonomikh enisxysh apo thn EE, prokeimenoy na hsyxasoyn oi pantes kai eseis bebaia.

PETALWTHS: Pragmatika ayto poy symbainei tis teleytaies hmeres einai akrws anhsyxhtiko kai anhsyxei, toso thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, to kratos, oso kai toys Ellhnes polites, stoys opoioys perna kai mia asxhmh cyxologia. Ekeino, omws, poy pragmatika qelw na diabebaiwsw kai se esas, toys ekproswpoys toy Typoy, alla kai stoys Ellhnes polites einai oti emeis den syzhtame gia kamia epanadiapragmateysh. Emeis exoyme kai phrame mia poly shmantikh gia emas apofash ths EE, me ayth poreyomaste. Me ayth thn apofash pisteyoyme oti qa ta bgaloyme pera monoi mas, exoyme oles tis proypoqeseis. Kai ayth h apofash aplws apotelei gia emas ena dixty asfaleias, etsi wste na ejomalynqoyn kai oi synqhkes me tis opoies, otan xreiastei, qa daneistoyme. Giati akoyme gia anodo twn spreads, eytyxws omws den xreiasthke na daneistoyme aytes tis hmeres. Elpizoyme kai prosdokoyme basima oti qa daneistoyme me kalyteroys oroys otan xreiastei, exontas ayto to dixty asfaleias. Se ayto to shmeio prepei na analogistoyme ti qa ginotan stis synqhkes daneismoy ean den yphrxe ayto to dixty asfaleias kai ean oi agores gnwrizan oti den yparxei kaneis na mas sthrijei otan kai ean to xreiastoyme. Ara, kai mono h yparjh aytoy toy mhxanismoy, poy htan enas mhxanismos o opoios apofasisthke me poly megalh diergasia kai diapragmateyseis einai kati ejairetika shmantikh. Gnwrizoyme oloi tis qeseis kapoiwn kratwn poy apekleian thn yparjh tetoioy mhxanismoy, prin apo th Synodo Koryfhs. Alla kai mono h yparjh einai kati para poly qetiko. To kratame ws eggyhsh kai apo ekei kai pera emeis doyleyoyme gia thn ylopoihsh toy Programmatos Staqerothtas kai eimaste sthn kateyqynsh na daneistoyme me toys kalyteroys oroys kai tropoys, exontas ayto to dixty asfaleias.

BLAXOS: Sxediazete na xrhsimopoihsete ayto to dixty asfaleias;

PETALWTHS: Ean xreiastei. Mono ean xreiastei.

BLAXOS: To blepete na ginetai ayto syntoma;

PETALWTHS: Emeis pisteyoyme oti den qa xreiastei.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Eipate oti den zhtate epanadiapragmateysh. Ginontai kinhseis gia na yparjei energopoihsh toy mhxanismoy;

PETALWTHS: Emeis pros to paron den xreiazomaste thn energopoihsh toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs. Poreyomaste etsi opws programmatizoyme. Apo ekei kai pera einai qema ths EE kai oswn apofasisan, poly qetika kata thn gnwmh mas, thn yparjh aytoy toy mhxanismoy na prosdiorisoyn kai toys oroys energopoihshs.

XASAPOPOYLOS: (den akoygetai)

PETALWTHS: Otan xreiastei kai fysika den afora monon th xwra mas. Afora oles tis eyrwpaikes xwres.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Lete oti pros to paron den xreiazetai energopoihsh. As poyme ena ypoqetiko paradeigma: An stis 16 kai 17 Maioy qa xreiastei h xwra mas na daneistei, qa pate sthn EE kai tote qa jekinhsoyn oi diadikasies; H xreiazetai mia proergasia se ayto to pragma; Ta spreads tote qa einai sta 580.

PETALWTHS: To na kanoyme askhseis epi xartoy einai para poly eykolo, alla einai kai poly epikindyno, opws apodeixqhke. Emeis poreyomaste me ton tropo poy diaxeirizomaste thn oikonomia mas twra. Exoyme tis stoxeyseis mas, qeloyme na daneistoyme otan xreiastei, me ton tropo poy bgainoyme stis agores. To dixty asfaleias poy onomazetai eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs, yparxei gia na eggyatai oti den eimaste monoi mas se ayth th megalh prospaqeia poy kanoyme.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Praktika loipon. H xwra daneisthke me 6.5% kai etsi egine olh ayth h fasaria. Labate ta metra gia na mhn janadaneistoyme me ayto to epitokio, alla na pame konta sta epitokia me ta opoia daneizontai alles xwres...

PETALWTHS: Aytos einai o stoxos mas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: ... phrate ayta ta sklhra metra gi ayto to skopo...

PETALWTHS: Oxi monon gi ayto ton skopo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: ... kai gi ayto to skopo. O prwqypoyrgos eixe pei epi lejei oti den mporoyme na synexisoyme na daneizomaste etsi. Ayto eipe, epakribws. Lew, loipon, to ejhs: Mporeite na mas peite pote qa energopoihsete to mhxanismo; Dhladh, pote qa bgeite gia daneismo, otan ta spreads einai panw apo 6,5 panw apo 6, panw apo 5,5, panw apo 7,5, sto 10, poy;

PETALWTHS: Eseis dhladh lete ean bazoyme katwfli sto daneismo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, bebaiws, bazete katwfli epiteloys na jeroyme h qa daneistoyme kai me 8%.

PETALWTHS: Ean baloyme katwfli, ayth th stigmh, ayto to orio poy eipate, einai h xeiroterh yphresia poy mporoyme na prosferoyme. Prwta apo ola, gia na jekaqarisoyme: Ta metra, polla apo ta opoia einai epwdyna gia toys polites, alla kai tis megales apofaseis den tis phrame mono gia to daneismo. Eprepe na noikokyrecoyme to ellhniko kratos. Dystyxws paralabame mia katastash, h opoia einai gnwsth kai den xreiazetai na thn janapoyme. Ara, ayta ta metra kai tis apofaseis ta labame kai gia alloys logoys: Kai gia na allajoyme to kratos, na pame kai pio mprosta. O daneismos den einai aytoskopos. Alimono, ean ypoballame ton ellhniko lao se aytes tis qysies kai ean pairname aytes tis megales apofaseis mono gia na mporoyme na daneizomaste. Einai mia parametros poly shmantikh. Den einai aytoskopos o daneismos. O daneismos einai ergaleio gia na mporesoyme na anaptyjoyme thn oikonomia mas. Einai ena ergaleio gia na mporesoyme na pame pio mprosta. Kai se ayth th logikh kinoymaste, ypo thn ennoia oti parakoloyqoyme oles tis kinhseis ths agoras. Emeis ayto poy mporoyme na kanoyme -kai to kanoyme me ton kalytero tropo- einai na prospaqoyme na ylopoioyme tis apofaseis mas kai to Programma Staqerothtas, to opoio einai kai o basikos mpoysoylas, basei toy opoioy kinoymaste. Apo ekei kai pera epitrecete moy na sas pw oti oi agores den leitoyrgoyn aytomatopoihmena, den patame ena koympi gia na pesoyn ta spreads, alla xreiazetai kai ena baqos xronoy, xreiazetai kai mia anasa thn opoia qewroyme oti phrame me ayto to eyrwpaiko dixty asfaleias, gia na mporesoyme kai sto epipedo daneismoy na exoyme kai na epityxoyme kalyteres synqhkes.

MAKRYGIANNHS: To pistoli sto trapezi to balate gia na pesoyn ta spreads kai gi ayto eipate kai to DNT oti einai mia dynatothta...

PETALWTHS: Den xreiasthke na daneistoyme omws aytes tis hmeres poy ta spreads einai toso ychla. Otan xreiastei na daneistoyme, qa prospaqhsoyme na daneistoyme me tis kalyteres synqhkes.

PETOYRH: Anejarthtws toy ti qa prajete otan qa xreiastei h xwra mas pali na daneistei, qa hqela na sas rwthsw ean thn ellhnikh kybernhsh thn problhmatizei to gegonos oti mia anwnymh dhlwsh, h endexomenws h parafrash mias dhlwshs kai h paranohsh einai dynaton na dhmioyrgei tetoioys klydwnismoys sthn ellhnikh oikonomia kai na sthnontai se baros ths tetoia paixnidia kerdoskopias. Exete skefqei pws qa qwrakisete thn ellhnikh oikonomia, apo antistoixes tyxoyses alles energeies poy mporei na erqoyn to amesws epomeno diasthma;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws mas anhsyxei. Kai mas anhsyxei giati blepoyme to zhthma se megalytero baqos. To qema einai oti exoyme ayth th stigmh ena oikonomiko ypobaqro, gia toys gnwstoys logoys, to opoio dhmioyrgei mia epirrepeia. Mas kanei toso epirrepeis kai eyalwtoys se diafores stoxeyseis, se kerdoskopies h kai se synhqismenes kinhseis ths agoras, oi opoies omws briskoyn ena edafos poly gonimo, mesa apo thn kakh katastash ths oikonomias ths xwras mas, thn opoia emeis bebaiws prospaqoyme na anatrecoyme, me apotelesma na exoyme aytes tis epiptwseis se kaqe ypotiqemenh anwnymh diarroh h fhmh h opoiadhpote diastreblwsh. Ean kataferoyme -kai aytos einai o megalos mas stoxos- na dhmioyrghsoyme ena staqero forologiko, dhmosionomiko, oikonomiko periballon, tote poly perissoteres fhmologies h poly perissoteres hqelhmenes kai aqelhtes diastreblwseis den qa mporoyn na epiferoyn tis synepeies poy antimetwpizoyme shmera. Ara, o stoxos mas einai ekei: Na qwrakisoyme thn oikonomia mas, etsi wste na mhn eimaste epirrepeis se tetoioy eidoys klydwnismoys akomh kai se paixnidia.

POLYMEROS: Tis teleytaies wres akoysthke to onoma toy prwhn ypoyrgoy k. G. Arsenh. Pera apo th diaceysh toy idioy, den jerw ean h kybernhsh ejetazei thn emplokh toy kai ean telika ayto to proswpo, aytos o ajiwmatoyxos einai yparkto. Kai ean oxi, ti skeftetai na kanei h kybernhsh; Qa kinhqei nomika enantion ths sygkekrimenhs istoselidas, gia thn apokatastash ths alhqeias;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola na anaferw gia ton k. Arsenh oti qewrw pws opoios diakinei tetoioy eidoys plhrofories ejyphretei me ton tropo toy ta xeirotera symferonta gia oloys mas. Kai to lew ayto giati eidika gia ton k. Arsenh, prokeitai gia mia proswpikothta, h opoia exei prosferei ston topo mas. Einai enas anqrwpos dhmokratikos, o opoios epi polla xronia eixe sta xeria toy to timoni ths oikonomias kai h prosfora toy einai anagnwrisimh se ola ta epipeda, apo opoio posto kai an perase. Ara, to na stoxopoioyme enan anqrwpo poy den exei kamia sxesh me tis fhmes poy ypotiqetai oti dikaiologoyn kai oles aytes tis istories twn teleytaiwn hmerwn, to qewroyme aparadekto apo kaqe apoch. Ws pros to an kinhqoyme apenanti sthn phgh poy trofodothse ayth th fhmh, prwta apo ola yparxei ena pedio askhshs ths dhmosiografias, to opoio krinetai se polla epipeda kai o kaqenas einai ypeyqynos gi ayta poy leei, kanei kai bebaiws yfistatai kai tis synepeies twn dhmosieymatwn poy dinei pros ta ejw. Epanalambanw oti osa astynomika metra kai na parei kaneis apenanti se tetoioys eidoys dhmosieymata, den qa eixan kanena antikrisma, ena den kataferoyme na apokatasthsoyme thn ajiopistia mas me ton kalytero tropo.

MIXAHL: Eipate prin apo ligo oti pros to paron h Ellada den xreiazetai na energopoihsei ton mhxanismo ayto kai oti einai qema ths EE na prosdiorisei toys oroys energopoihshs ean pote kai otan teqei tetoio zhthma. H EE den einai ``26'' einai ``27'' dhladh ki emeis. Kai deyteron, qelw na jerw ean eseis apo twra syzhtate na jekaqarisoyn oi oroi aytoy toy mhxanismoy, wste otan kai efoson xreiastei na einai safeis. To lew ayto dioti kai xqes sto Eyrwkoinoboylio polloi askhsan drimytath kritikh oti exei asafeia ayth h apofash. Qelw, loipon, na jerw ean ginontai syzhthseis gia na ginei safes to periexomeno ths.

PETALWTHS: Syzhthseis poy dhladh; Sthn kybernhsh, sthn EE;

MIXAHL: Sthn E.E. me th symmetoxh kai ths Elladas.

PETALWTHS: Parakoloyqhsate ki eseis th synedriash toy Eyrwkoinoboylioy, thn opoia parakoloyqhsame ki emeis. Kai mono oti yparxei o mhxanismos sthrijhs mas eynoei. Qa leitoyrghsei qetika. Gnwrizoyn aytoi poy paizoyn diafora paixnidia oti yparxei ena dixty asfaleias, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws. Alla kai genikws -gia na mhn milame mono gia osoys paizoyn kerdoskopika paixnidia- oi agores exoyn ena sygkekrimeno tropo leitoyrgias. Gia na mhn daimonopoioyme ta panta. Apo ekei kai pera einai sto xeri mas na dhmioyrghsoyme ekeines tis synqhkes, etsi wste na mporesoyme na exoyme mia symperifora ajia ths oikonomikhs mas katastashs.

MIXAHL: H Ellada phre prwtoboylia sto epipedo twn diaboyleysewn sthn EE, na zhthsei thn aposafhnish twn orwn aytoy toy mhxanismoy, etsi wste na stamathsoyn kai oi agores na briskoyn pathma oti ``den mas lete safws ti qa kanete kai ara symperiferomaste, opws symperiferomaste'';

PETALWTHS: Den einai pathma h asafeia kapoiwn orwn. H EE phre thn apofash, exei toys tropoys ths na prosdiorisei toys oroys daneismoy, apenanti se opoiadhpote xwra kai mporei na to kanei ana pasa stigmh. Den einai h asafeia to pathma gia na anebainoyn ta spreads.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Prin apo ligo, o ekproswpos ths Komision, otan rwthqhke ean energopoihqei aytos o mhxanismos gia thn Ellada, eipe oti den exei ypoblhqei analogo aithma apo thn Ellada...

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws.

XASAPOPOYLOS: ... afhnontas na ennohqei oti prepei na ypoblhqei aithma apo thn Ellada gia na sygkekrimenopoihqei o mhxanismos...

PETALWTHS: Gia na energopoihqei o mhxanismos. Bebaiws den exei ypoblhqei aithma. Den gnwrizw...

XASAPOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite, omws, gia na katalaboyme. Kapoios doyleyei kapoion edw. Dhladh...

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti einai jekaqara.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Einai jekaqara, alla prepei kapoios na ypobalei ena aithma gia na sygkekrimenopoihqei kai energopoihqei o mhxanismos.

PETALWTHS: Allo na sygkekrimenopoihqei kai allo na energopoihqei. Emeis den xreiazomaste energopoihsh, oyte sygkekrimenopoihsh, ayth th stigmh, kanenos mhxanismoy. Emeis, to mhxanismo ayton ton qelame kai ton qeloyme gia sygkekrimeno logo. Gia na yparxei ws eggyhsh, gia na omalopoihqoyn oi synqhkes daneismoy. Ara, den yparxei logos na paroyme kamia prwtoboylia, ayth th stigmh.

TSAKIRHS: Kat` arxhn, prepei profanws na symfwnhsei prwta h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh me to DNT, gia na dhmioyrghqei ayto to dixty. Akoma aytoi den ta exoyn brei apo o,ti fainetai. Opote, den katalabainw pws h kybernhsh leei oti exei dixty asfaleias. Pera apo ayto, o Prwqypoyrgos xqes eipe...

PETALWTHS: H apofash yparxei. Den nomizw oti thn amfisbhtei kaneis.

TSAKIRHS: Nai, alla prepei na ta broyn prwta metajy toys. Telos pantwn. O Prwqypoyrgos, xqes, eipe oti qa qesei mellontika kai oxi amesa tis nees protaseis poy yparxoyn gia th dhmioyrgia oysiastika enos neoy mhxanismoy. Hqela na sas rwthsw, skopeyete na qesete to epomeno diasthma, o idios eipe ston k. Rompai oti qa ton enhmerwsei. Qa zhthsete neo mhxanismo;

PETALWTHS: Gia na aposafhnisoyme kapoia pragmata, o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, Giwrgos Papandreoy, enwpion toy Eyrwpaikoy Koinoboylioy eixe kanei kapoies sygkekrimenes protaseis. Apo ekei kai pera, ayto einai ena allo zhthma, makroproqesma pws mporoyme na blepoyme th sthrijh twn kratwn-melwn mesa apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Kai yparxei kai mia sygkekrimenh protash twn Eyrwpaiwn Sosialistwn kai einai teleiws diaforetiko to oti yphrje mia apofash apo thn teleytaia Synodo Koryfhs -sthn opoia ennoeitai oti kai emeis symmeteixame, einai aytonohto, ara kai dhlwsimo- oti eimaste ikanopoihmenoi. Einai gnwsto oti oi apofaseis sta Symboylia Koryfhs kai genikotera sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh lambanontai meta apo sklhres diapragmateyseis kai gi` ayto emeis, me bash tis diapragmateyseis poy ginontai kai me bash tis dhlwseis kai th boylhsh kapoiwn xwrwn prin th lhch apofashs, dhlwsame oti me ayta ta dedomena eimaste ikanopoihmenoi. Apo ekei kai pera, makroproqesma, fysika h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh qa prepei na brei tropoys etsi wste na sthrizei tis xwres-melh opote kai an xreiazetai.

TSAKIRHS: Pote qa enhmerwsete ton k. Rompai; Poso makroproqesma;

PETALWTHS: Otan xreiastei na ton enhmerwsoyme, qa anakoinwqei kiolas. Pantws, jekaqarizw oti einai dyo teleiws diaforetika pragmata.

KOYTRAS: Qelw na sas rwthsw prwton, anaforika me tis diarroes ean sto sygkekrimeno qema poy egine proxqes yphrjan laqos kybernhtikoi xeirismoi kai kaqysterhmenh antidrash se ayth th diarroh, peite thn opws qelete. Kai deyteron, eipate prin oti yparxoyn basimes prosdokies oti qa daneistei h Ellada me kalytero epitokio. Kai qelw na sas rwthsw, poy edrazete ayth thn prosdokia, th stigmh poy exei prohghqei lhch metrwn, exei prohghqei h eyrwpaikh apofash sto dixty asfaleias kai parola ayta oi agores den akoyn kanenan. Shmera ta spreads htan 430.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, emeis den dexomaste oti yphrje diarroh kybernhtikoy ajiwmatoyxoy. Ara, na jekinhsoyme apo ayto. Apo ekei kai pera, gnwrizoyme poly kala tis synqhkes daneismoy ths agoras shmera. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala ti symbainei. Apo thn arxh emeis miloysame gia to oti prepei na paroyme mia anasa, oti xreiazetai kapoios xronos, prokeimenoy na apodwsei kai o eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs kai na peisoyn ta metra kai oi apofaseis poy exoyme parei ws kybernhsh toys etairoys mas -poy hdh toys peisame kai htan ena poly qetiko prwto bhma- alla kai tis agores poy exoyn na kanoyn pleon me mia xwra, h opoia eggyatai oti se periptwsh poy daneistei qa mporei na ekplhrwsei to xreos ths sto akeraio. Ayto xreiazetai doyleia hmera me thn hmera kai se ayth thn kateyqynsh ergazetai - kai malista poly qetika kai sklhra- h ellhnikh kybernhsh, pisteyontas kai prosdokwntas oti sto telos qa exoyme kalyteres synqhkes daneismoy.

KOYTRAS: Gia to prwto poy sas rwthsa, gia to an yparxoyn lanqasmenoi kybernhtikoi xeirismoi sthn antimetwpish toy dhmosieymatos, afoy dhmosieyqhke.

PETALWTHS: Yphrxe ena dhmosieyma, to opoio to idio apogeyma diaceysthke me ton tropo poy diaceysthke. Alimono ean se kaqe dhmosieyma, se kaqe fhmologia peri diarrohs apo anwnymo kybernhtiko ajiwmatoyxo yphrxe kai analogh apanthsh. Otan, omws, kriname oti eprepe na yparxei apanthsh, ayth doqhke. Kai epeidh isws yparxei h aporia, ma, hdh anebhkan ta spreads, nomizw oti ta spreads me mia tetoia dhlwsh kai me mia tetoia fhmologia, den anebainoyn aytomata. Gi` ayto akribws eipa oti emeis prospaqoyme na xtisoyme tetoies synqhkes poy to paramikro na mhn ephreazei tis synqhkes twn dieqnwn agorwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mporeite na moy peite to ejhs, mia ejhghsh qeloyme: Pws h kybernhsh apodidei, ermhneyei thn anodo twn spreads; Dhladh, giati ginetai ayto; Phge 450. Ekanan mia bolta pros ta epanw kai qa janagyrisoyn h yparxei kati allo;

PETALWTHS: Egw eipa prohgoymenws oti oi ekdoxes mporei na einai polles, oti kai kerdoskopika paixnidia mporei na paizontai, alla kai otan leitoyrgei to systhma ypo tetoies synqhkes, einai mia oikonomia h opoia prepei akomh na apodeijei oti einai qwrakismenh kai oti exei eggyhseis. Fysika dinoyme dikaiwma na anebainoyn kapws ta spreads me ton tropo me ton opoio anebainoyn. Gi` ayto lew oti einai katakthsh, h opoia einai bhma pros bhma na mporesoyme na peisoyme oti eimaste ajiopistoi.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kanate mia logikh diasyndesh anamesa sth dhmioyrgia aytoy toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs kai stis metaptwseis twn spreads; Prosdokate na pane pros ta katw; Se synexeia ths prohgoymenhs erwthshs, yparxei periptwsh h ejhghsh poy dinete eseis gia thn anodo twn spreads na emperiexei kai kybernhtikes astoxies; Oxi ths prohgoymenhs kybernhshs, ayths ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Ean me rwthsete sygkekrimena gia poies astoxies, mporw na sas pw ean qewroyme oti einai astoxia kapoies kinhseis.

MOYRELATOS: Fernei meridio eyqynhs h ellhnikh kybernhsh gia to oti ta spreads apo ton Dekembrh kai meta exoyn ektinaxqei;

PETALWTHS: Qa htan poly qetiko, isws oxi epikoinwniaka, alla oysiastika, na yphrxan laqh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs etsi wste na exoyme to periqwrio, diorqwnontas ta, na kateboyn ta spreads. Omws, h agora kai ta spreads leitoyrgoyn me ena sygkekrimeno tropo. Emeis, mesa apo poly dyskoles synqhkes, prospaqoyme na epitelesoyme to ergo mas me poly megalh prosoxh, thrwntas tetoies isorropies wste na mhn xreiazetai na daneizomaste me tetoies pragmatika barbares synqhkes. Parakoloyqoyme, doyleyoyme. Alla astoxies mesa apo aytes tis synqhkes, den mporw na entopisw.

BLAXOS: Apo tis omilies toy k. Papandreoy kai kyriws apo ayth th xqesinh, einai safes oti h kybernhsh brisketai se mia krisimh kamph. Prospaqei na perasei ena kabo gia na kanei kati diaforetiko poy qa dwsei mia asfaleia, opws lete kai eseis, sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. An pisteyei o k. Prwqypoyrgos oti se ayto qa symballoyn kai diorqwtikes kinhseis sto kybernhtiko sxhma. Dhladh, ean qa exoyme syntoma ena mikro anasxhmatismo toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos.

PETALWTHS: Exei dhlwqei kathgorhmatika kai para polles fores -kai me eilikrineia ayth th fora, giati einai gnwsto oti oi anasxhmatismoi den pro anaggellontai- pws eimaste toso kathgorhmatikoi kai safeis oti den yparxei tetoia skech, oxi apofash, oyte kan tetoia skech. Kai ayto enisxyetai apo th logikh oti ayth th stigmh briskomaste se toso krisimo stadio, oti ola ta ypoyrgeia doyleyoyn me gorgoys ryqmoys kai oti to paragomeno ergo apo ta ypoyrgeia arxizei twra na fainetai. Ara, den yparxei kanenas logos gia anasxhmatismo kai logika, pera apo ta diadikastika.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exw dyo erwthseis. H mia erwthsh einai, an exoyn dikio kapoioi analytes sto dieqnh xwro poy ektimoyn oti h Ellada den qa mporesei na anaxrhmatodothsei to xreos ths. Kai deyteron, energopoihsate to paketo twn 28 dis gia tis trapezes, alla an qymamai kala, ws antipoliteysh to eixate kataggeilei. Den yparxei kapoia antifash edw;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros to prwto, ennoeitai oti diaceydoyme kathgorhmatika oti yparxei problhma anaxrhmatodothshs toy xreoys. Kanoyme mia poly sygkekrimenh doyleia, etsi wste na mhn kindyneyoyme se tipota ws ellhnikh oikonomia, par` oles tis synqhkes daneismoy, par` oles tis streblwseis. Ara, einai safestato oti o daneismos mas einai akrws eggyhmenos kai oti h anaxrhmatodothsh toy xreoys, otan xreiazetai, safestata mporei na ginei. Ara, den kindyneyei kaneis apo daneismo ths xwras mas. Apo ekei kai pera, ontws energopoihsame ta ypoloipa 15 dis apo to paketo twn 28 dis eyrw kai ontws eixame kataggeilei tote thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokraties gi` aytes tis energeies ths. Omws, yparxei mia poly megalh diafora: Ekeino to paketo den eixe kamia asfalistikh dikleida, etsi wste na pesei pragmatika sthn agora. Emeis, ypo tetoies synqhkes poy antimetwpizoyme shmera, prepei na broyme tropoys na dioxeteyqei xrhma, na yparxei reystothta sthn agora. Kai enas jekaqaros kai amesos tropos einai h energopoihsh toy paketoy twn 15 dis eyrw, etsi wste oxi na ta paroyn oi trapezes, alla mesw twn trapezwn na dioxeteyqoyn sthn agora.

Syntoma, malista, qa yparjoyn kai apofaseis toy oikonomikoy epiteleioy ths kybernhshs poy qa qetei sygkekrimena aytes tis dikleides. Emas, mas endiaferei na kinhqei h agora kai ayto to kanoyme me oloys toys tropoys. Kati poy den ekane h Nea Dhmokratia.

SPANOY: Den qa bohqoyse proswrina thn eqnikh prospaqeia, kata th gnwmh mas, h symmetoxh sthn kybernhsh proswpikothtwn ektos PASOK, ayto poy lene kapoioi ``kybernhsh eqnikhs enothtas'';

PETALWTHS: Epeidh ayto to senario akoygetai kata diasthmata, pisteyw oti einai kati poy qolwnei to topio. H kybernhsh exei mia safh, nwph laikh entolh kai exei deijei, exei apodeijei oti se synqhkes ektakths anagkhs exei tetoio paragomeno ergo poy polles kybernhseis epi polla xronia den eixan na epideijoyn. Ara, ola ayta einai aney oysias, aney antikeimenoy kai mallon prodiagrafoyn tis orejeis kapoiwn gia symmetoxh sthn ejoysia.

SEGKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, einai toso megalh h spoydh ths kybernhshs na ejyphrethsei toys epixeirhmaties poy apesyre th monh diatajh poy qa toys epibaryne stoixeiwdws; Anaferomai sth diatajh gia thn parakrathsh toy 8%.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, qa anakoinwqei shmera armodiws, apo ton ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn sth Boylh, to ti qa ginei me ayth th diatajh toy 8%. Apo ekei kai pera, oi synqhkes poy antimetwpizoyme einai sygkekrimenes. Apo th mia meria yparxei anagkh gia esoda, edw den einai qema esodwn toy kratoys, einai qema katapolemhshs ths diadikasias ekdoshs plastwn kai eikonikwn timologiwn kai ayth h proeisprajh toy 8% qa eixe akribws ayto to nohma. Kai einai para poly shmantiko, giati ta plasta kai eikonika timologia einai mia poly megalh plhgh gia thn oikonomia ths xwras mas. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, gnwrizoyme - kai to gnwrizoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites- oti oi synqhkes sthn agora einai tetoies poy tetoia metra pragmatika prepei na ta janadoyme, an qa prepei na teqoyn amesa se leitoyrgia, na anastaloyn h na anablhqoyn. Aytes tis dyo skeceis kanei h kybernhsh. Den exoyme dogmatismoys apenanti se ayto. Emeis qeloyme thn ygih epixeirhmatikothta, giati xwris aythn den mporei na kinhqei h agora kai h oikonomia mas. Ara, me monadiko krithrio th forologikh dikaiosynh, alla kai thn ygih epixeirhmatikothta, lambanontai kai oi apofaseis ths kybernhshs kai se ayto to zhthma.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs stoxopoiei eyqews kai proswpika pleon ton Prwqypoyrgo kai toy prosaptei barytates eyqynes gia thn katastash ths oikonomias. Exete kapoio sxolio;

PETALWTHS: Mallon einai kainoyrgio efeyrhma ayto, na proswpopoioyn tis eyqynes ston Prwqypoyrgo. Sxolio den qa mporoysa na kanw egw. Sxolio mporei na kanei o kaqe Ellhnas poliths, blepontas th drasthriothta kai th drash, oxi mono ths sygkekrimenhs kybernhshs, alla idiws toy Prwqypoyrgoy ths xwras. Kai qa prepei na analogistoyme oloi, ti qa ginotan kai pws qa antimetwpizotan ayth h krish me enan allon Prwqypoyrgo, o opoios den qa eixe ayth thn embeleia sto eswteriko, alla kyriws kai sto ejwteriko ths xwras, etsi wste pragmatika na fainetai oti h xwra mas einai mia xwra staqerothtas poy mporei na eggyhqei ta stoixeiwdh, kati gia to opoio safws kai den yphrxe h entypwsh me tis prohgoymenes katastaseis poy zhsame.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Eipate nwritera oti h kybernhsh den dexetai oti yphrxe diarroh apo kybernhtiko stelexos se ayta ta dhmosieymata. Ereyna egine.

PETALWTHS: Den dexomaste oti yphrxe diarroh, giati den yphrje tetoia syzhthsh sthn kybernhsh gia epanadiapragmateysh twn orwn toy DNT, ths symmetoxhs toy kai ola ayta poy akoygontai. Ara, xwris syzhthsh, ti diarroh na yparxei; Kai gi` ayto akribws to logo leme kai arnoymaste kathgorhmatika oti yphrje kybernhtikos ajiwmatoyxos, o opoios qa eixe kanei ayth th diarroh. Osoi to isxyrizontai, as erqoyn na katonomasoyn poios mporei na to ekane. Alla, epeidh den egine pote tetoia syzhthsh se kentriko kai kybernhtiko epipedo, einai aney antikeimenoy.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sas to rwtw ayto, giati xqes o k. Karatzaferhs, milwntas sto ALTER eipe oti mporei na einai syzygos ypoyrgoy h na einai kapoios, fwtografizontas, den eipe onoma. Kai meta eixame ena mparaz dhlwsewn, antidhlwsewn apo ton Gerasimo Arsenh. Olo ayto to klima, eseis pws to eisprattete ayto; Dhladh, den yparxei ena ypobaqro apo katw;

PETALWTHS: Gia logoys fqhnoy entypwsiasmoy, mporei opoiosdhpote, otan yparxei mia panspermia fhmwn kai mia anafora se diarroes apo kybernhtikoys ajiwmatoyxoys, na stoxopoihqei o opoiosdhpote gia opoiondhpote logo. Kai malista, otan prokeitai gia ena sygkekrimeno proswpo, to opoio - opws eipa prohgoymenws- exei prosferei polla sthn ellhnikh oikonomia kai o opoios, olws tyxaiws, einai syzygos ths ypoyrgoy Oikonomias ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs. Ara, h stoxopoihsh einai sygkekrimenh kai bebaiws thn aporriptoyme meta bdelygmias kai me thn prosqhkh oswn eipa prohgoymenws gia to proswpo toy k. Arsenh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Jeroyme thn proqesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs na ekdwsei omologa se dolaria. Xqes, eixame mia antidrash apo tis HPA, en pash periptwsei apo toys ekei kykloys oikonomikoys, xrhmatisthriakoys k.t.l., oti aytoi qa daneisoyn th xwra mas me epitokio anw toy 7%. Qa epimeinei h kybernhsh se ayth thn energeia; Ti nohma exei pleon mia tetoia energeia;

PETALWTHS: Qa moy epitrecete na mhn apantw se erwthseis poy prosblepoyn kai problepoyn daneiakes anagkes ths xwras, gia sygkekrimenoys logoys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Milw gia anakoinwsh kybernhtikwn proqesewn. Den ta bgazoyme apo to myalo mas.

PETALWTHS: Nai, alla h apanthsh moy einai ayth, h sygkekrimenh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Einai ayto emmesh apodokimasia ston k. Xristodoyloy h sto oikonomiko epiteleio (den akoygetai)...

PETALWTHS: Kamia apodokimasia. As meinoyme se ayto poy lew.

MAKRYGIANNHS: ... poy espeysan na fanerwsoyn tetoies proqeseis;

PETALWTHS: Egw apantw me ayto ton tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Poso piqanh blepete th xrewkopia ths xwras k. Ekproswpe;

PETALWTHS: Kaqoloy.

Sas eyxaristw.

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