Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-01-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 21 Ianoyarioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 247168513

Ekdosh 1

brf2101

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 21 Ianoyarioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H kybernhsh apo thn prwth hmera diakybernhshs toy topoy epeleje na anoijei ola ta xronizonta ekkremh problhmata toy topoy, problhmata poy empodizoyn thn proodo, thn anaptyjh kai poy mas exoyn ferei sth shmerinh dysxerestath qesh. Epeleje, omws, parallhla na epizhta to dialogo, thn eqnikh synennohsh kai th diamorfwsh twn eyryterwn dynatwn koinwnikwn symmaxiwn se ola ta qemata kai me oloys toys emplekomenoys foreis.

To agrotiko zhthma einai yparkto, einai pragmatiko kai to gnwrizoyme. Kai para to gegonos oti eimaste kybernhsh molis triwn mhnwn, apo thn prwth hmera asxolhqhkame energa. Proxwrhsame sthn entajh twn agrotwn sto nomosxedio gia th reystothta ths oikonomias, se ryqmiseis twn daneiwn toys. toys entajame stis eyergetikes ryqmiseis gia ton ``TEIRESIA'' poy aforoyn kai stoys agrotes, sthn ayjhsh ths epistrofhs toy FPA apo 7% se 11%, sthn entajh stis ryqmiseis mesw TEMPME, sthn ayjhsh twn syntajewn toy OGA se dyo faseis, sthn entajh twn agrotwn sto Epidoma Koinwnikhs Allhleggyhs. Ayta toys prwtoys treis mhnes.

Hdh, h hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs kai Trofimwn exei probei se anakoinwsh taktopoihshs xroniwn ekkremwn agrotikwn plhrwmwn mesw toy programmatos ``ALEJANDROS MPALTATZHS'', enw brisketai sto teliko stadio h diapragmateysh gia thn prosqeth sthrijh twn paragwgwn elaioladoy kai sklhroy sitarioy, kaqws kai twn kthnotrofikwn proiontwn kai twn meionektoyntwn perioxwn. Epishs, kai ayto einai poly shmantiko, h kybernhsh prowqei nea nomoqetikh ryqmish gia thn allagh toy qesmikoy plaisioy gia thn enopoihsh kai anasygkrothsh toy agrotikoy syndikalistikoy kinhmatos.

Einai alhqeia oti o agrotikos kosmos epi seira etwn yphrje qyma bolikwn, eykairiakwn politikwn, proskairwn epidomatikwn epixorhghsewn poy den elynan ta pragmatika problhmata ths agrotikhs paragwghs kai diaqeshs twn proiontwn toys. H kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na epiferei rizikes tomes se oloys toys tomeis ths dhmosias zwhs kai fysika, den mporei na meinei ap` ejw to megalo agrotiko zhthma. Ena zhthma poy apaitei makropnoh prooptikh kai strathgikes apofaseis. O dikaios kai xwris proapaitoymena dialogos me toys agrotes einai aparaithtos kai h symbolh toys sthn epoikodomhtikh epilysh twn xroniwn zhthmatwn toys einai ek twn wn oyk aney.

Morfes omws kinhtopoihshs, opws aytes toy kleisimatos eqnikwn kai dieqnwn dromwn, einai atelesfores. Den wfeloyn kanenan kai prwta ap` ola toys idioys toys agrotes, den wfeloyn synolika thn koinwnia kai telika thn idia thn Ellada. Gi` ayto to logo, oi Ellhnes polites adynatoyn na katanohsoyn kai na dikaiologhsoyn tis kinhtopoihseis aytes, me aytes tis morfes, me apotelesma na qolwnetai to pragmatiko mhnyma poy qeloyn na steiloyn oi agrotes mas kai gia ta dikaia aithmata toys, ta opoia hdh anagnwrizoyme.

Emeis, omws, epimenoyme. Epimenoyme na kaloyme ton agrotiko kosmo se dialogo gia to shmera kai to ayrio ths ellhnikhs gewrgias. Epimenoyme na kaloyme gia syzhthsh epanw sta megala diarqrwtika problhmata kai ta qesmika problhmata ths agrotikhs paragwghs. Giati ayth einai h monh lysh gia to megalo kai spoydaio agrotiko zhthma ths xwras mas.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa jekinhsw apo mia politikoy periexomenoy erwthsh, me dyo skelh. Ti apantate ws kybernhsh sthn kritikh ths Neas Dhmokratias, h opoia prwton leei oti ta xrhmata poy edwse ayth perysi, oxi mono htan swsta kai eprepe na doqoyn kai to deytero, eseis tote legate oti einai liga kai eprepe na doqoyn perissotera. Kai epipleon, shmera bgainoyn kai lene oti exoyn dikio oi agrotes poy diamartyrontai, dioti den exete kanei to paramikro gia thn epilysh twn problhmatwn toys.

PETALWTHS: Prwton, einai toylaxiston ypokritikh h stash ths Neas Dhmokratias shmera, h opoia afenos men leei oti einai kata twn mplokwn kai twn kinhtopoihsewn, sthn prajh omws ta stelexh ths kanoyn diaforetika pragmata. Deyteron, mesa se treis mhnes, dysxeranqhkan se toso baqmo ta problhmata twn agrotwn, gia ta opoia eyqynetai to PASOK; Hdh, sas anefera prohgoymenws  kai to exw kanei kata koron- mia seira apo megala zhthmata ta opoia epilyqhkan: Poy shmainei enisxysh twn agrotwn kai dieykolynsh sta leitoyrgika toys ejoda kai tis megales leitoyrgikes toys dapanes. Mia seira apo zhthmata, mesa se treis mhnes, poy exoyn na kanoyn me th syntajh toys, me thn pronoia toys kai thn yparjh toys ws agrotwn. H Nea Dhmokratia htan ayth h opoia xrhsimopoihse ton agrotiko kosmo, teleiws pelateiaka, teleiws eykairiaka, me kapoies epidothseis tis opoies edine me poly qoloys tropoys kai me amfibolh apotelesmatikothta kai me krithria kaqara kommatika. Gi` ayto ftasame kai sth shmerinh katastash. Gi` ayto emeis milame gia megales qesmikes allages poy ginontai, gi` ayto emeis epilegoyme apo to na yposxomaste kai na dinoyme kapoia xrhmata, ta opoia isws h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh xreiastei na mas ta zhthsei pisw, opws ginetai hdh gia to perifhmo paketo twn 500 ekatommyriwn eyrw toy k. Xatzhgakh, o opoios shmera akomh milaei yper twn mplokwn. Emeis den prokeitai na kanoyme tetoioy eidoys politikh. Peran toy oti yparxei mia gnwsth oikonomikh stenothta, thn opoia symmerizetai sysswmh h ellhnikh koinwnia. Alla, apo kei kai pera, pisteyoyme oti me tetoioy eidoys epidomatikes, eykairiakes politikes, to mono poy qa kanoyme einai na anakyklwsoyme to megalo agrotiko zhthma, ta problhmata twn agrotwn kai qa einai mono mia ypekfygh gia thn epilysh twn megalwn zhthmatwn. Emeis epilejame na kanoyme baqies allages, rizikes tomes, akomh kai sthn organwsh toy agrotikoy syndikalistikoy kinhmatos. Ayth einai h yphresia poy prosferoyme stoys agrotes, ayto einai poy zhtame na symmeristoyn, na katanohsoyn oi agrotes, giati ean exoyme mia eykairiakh politikh, opws ayth ths Neas Dhmokratias, oxi aplws den lynoyme ta zhthmata, gyrizoyme pali pisw sto parelqon. Kai emeis ayto den to qeloyme.

MIXAHL: Mia symplhrwmatikh erwthsh, an moy epitrepete. Ena apo ta aithmata poy proballoyn oi agrotes, oi opoioi ayth th stigmh deixnoyn aytoi toylaxiston na mhn ekfrazoyn organwseis toys agrotwn poy proskeintai se politika kommata, eite alloy eidoys organwseis, en pash periptwsei, aytoi poy leme ``neoi agrotes'', lene oti ayto peri syndikalistikoy kinhmatos na erqei twra kai oxi to kalokairi poy desmeythke h k. Mpatzelh, eiste diateqeimenoi na kanete mia tetoia kalh kinhsh tis epomenes hmeres;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, h protash pros diaboyleysh einai etoimh kai qa ginei, etsi wste na yparjei ena ygies neo syndikalistiko kinhma twn agrotwn poy qa ekfrazei toys agrotes, toys neoys agrotes, etsi wste na pame se mia agrotikh kai gewrgikh paragwgh, me sygxrona protypa, etsi wste na yparjoyn synqhkes epibiwshs twn Ellhnwn agrotwn. Kai se ayto poy me rwthsate prohgoymenws na symplhrwsw: Ecaja kai brhka mia omilia toy nyn Prwqypoyrgoy Giwrgoy Papandreoy stis 18/1/2009 ws proedroy toy PASOK, sta Trikala. Einai pros xrhsh olwn, prokeimenoy na fanei h antistoixia, to ti legame tote  se anypopto xrono- kai ti kanoyme twra. Eixame desmeytei gi` ayta ta opoia hdh exoyme kanei.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Pws katalhgete sto ayqaireto symperasma oti o laos den dikaiologei kai den katanoei tis kinhtopoihseis twn agrotwn;

PETALWTHS: Den einai ayqaireto symperasma. Emeis katanooyme ta problhmata twn agrotwn. To idio kanei kai o ellhnikos laos. Ejalloy, oi agrotes mas einai ena megalo meros, ena megalo kommati ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. Apo th stigmh, omws, poy yparxoyn ayta ta problhmata, den mporoyn na katanohsoyn oi Ellhnes polites tetoioy eidoys kinhtopoihseis poy prokaloyn asxhmes synqhkes gia tis sygkoinwnies, gia th metafora agaqwn kai proswpwn, poy dhmioyrgoyn akomh kai zhthmata me tis geitonikes mas xwres, opws einai to kleisimo twn synorwn. Kai gi` ayto eipa prohgoymenws oti to swsto kai dikaio aithma twn agrotwn, qolwnetai ws mhnyma pros thn ellhnikh koinwnia. Ayto einai poy eisprattoyme emeis kai ayto leme.

QEODWROPOYLOS: H ellhnikh koinwnia den katanoei h h ellhnikh kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai diko sas ayqaireto symperasma. Emeis ekfrazoyme thn ellhnikh koinwnia. Exoyme parei mia nwph kai safh entolh prin apo treis mhnes, alla kai shmera eimaste sigoyroi oti me tis qeseis mas aytes, ekfrazoyme ton aplo Ellhna polith mesa stis shmerines oikonomikes kai koinwnikes synqhkes.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, anaferqhkate prwtytera se mia seira yparktwn ontws parembasewn ths kybernhshs ws pros toys polites, molis toys prohgoymenoys treis mhnes. Synagw to symperasma apo ta legomena sas oti apodidete emmesws plhn safws politika kinhtra pleon stis kinhtopoihseis. Giati fobaste na to peite;

PETALWTHS: Den apodidoyme tipote kai den mpainoyme se ayth th syzhthsh. Emeis toys agrotes poy symmetexoyn stis kinhtopoihseis, toys antimetwpizoyme ws Ellhnes agrotes, me ta problhmata toys. Aplws, leme oti den symfwnoyme me th morfh aytwn twn kinhtopoihsewn. Kai gi` ayto toys kaloyme se ena dialogo gia ta megala, rizika problhmata, gia tis megales qesmikes allages poy einai meros twn aithmatwn toys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mias kai to eipate etsi, me ola osa eipate nwritera, ta metra poy exei labei h kybernhsh, oi agrotes kanonika qa eprepe na panhgyrizoyn. Alla, omws, ta mploka einai yparkta. Poy apodidete, loipon, ta mploka, afoy lete ``den blepoyme politika kinhtra''; Poy ta apodidete, dhladh giati kanoyn tis kinhtopoihseis tote;

PETALWTHS: Emeis den eipame oti me ta metra poy exoyme parei, ta metra elafrynshs ths leitoyrgikothtas toy agrotikoy epaggelmatos, oti lyqhkan ta problhmata toys. Isa-isa, leme oti ta agrotika problhmata einai polla, einai problhmata xronia, einai problhmata paqogenh, einai problhmata poy h diakybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias ta koryfwse kai einai para polla akomh pros epilysh. Otan yparxoyn problhmata, qa yparxoyn kai kinhtopoihseis, einai safes, alla den symfwnoyme me ayth th morfh twn kinhtopoihsewn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Yparxoyn ypokinhtes politikoi, kommatikoi, h Nea Dhmokratia, opws afhsate na ennohqei h to KKE, gia paradeigma;

PETALWTHS: Twra, to na mpoyme se mia tetoia syzhthsh, adikoyme thn oysia twn problhmatwn twn agrotwn. Kai emeis, ayth th stigmh, den qeloyme na to kanoyme. Oi kinhtopoihseis twn agrotwn exoyn nohma ws pros ta aithmata toys. Twra, to an toys ekmetalleyontai kapoioi politikoi organismoi, einai ena allo zhthma.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai ena qema, telos pantwn  moy epitrepete- gia to syndikalismo: Lete gia ygih syndikalismo, gia allages k.t.l. Mexri twra, sta epishma toylaxiston syndikalistika organa twn agrotwn, kyriarxoyse to PASOK. Kai yparxoyn koryfaia stelexh toy PASOK, ta opoia diadramatizoyn, diadramatisan epi dekaeties, qa mporoyse na pei kaneis, kentriko rolo sth dhmioyrgia ayths ths katastashs. Apodokimazete aytes tis praktikes toy kommatos sas kai qelete na tis allajete; Qa paramerisete kapoia stelexh, ta opoia feroyn eyqynh gi` ayto;

PETALWTHS: Einai safes oti den yparxei qema proswpwn. Einai safes oti to agrotiko syndikalistiko kinhma, mexri twra, exei prosferei polla kai malista stoys agrotes, me th gnwsth diarqrwsh ths agrotikhs koinwnias kai me ta xronia problhmata toys kai me thn katastash periqwriopoihshs poy briskotan epi polles dekaeties. As mhn jexname, mias poy anafereste stoys syndikalistes toy PASOK, oti to PASOK apo to 1981 kai meta htan ayto to komma, ayto to kinhma, to opoio efere sthn epifaneia toys agrotes, toys ekane -opws kai ola ta xamhla koinwnika strwmata ths ellhnikhs koinwnias- isotimoys polites kai ayto einai mia megalh katakthsh. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, oi epoxes allazoyn. Apaiteitai mia sygxronh morfh syndikalistikwn organwsewn. Kai emeis qa baloyme to qesmiko plaisio, etsi opws qa to dwsoyme sthn protash pros diaboyleysh poy hdh exei etoimo to ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs.

BITALHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh rwthqhkate kai janaerwthqhkate gia to qema ean yparxoyn ypokinhtes se ayth thn istoria, se aytes tis kinhtopoihseis, lete parapanw ``einai toylaxiston ypokritikh h stash ths Neas Dhmokratias, alla lene gia ta mplok, omws ta stelexh toys kanoyn diaforetika''. Dhladh, ta stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias einai ayta  prospaqw na katalabw, dhladh- poy ypokinoyn ta mploka twn agrotwn h polla mploka twn agrotwn, en pash periptwsei, an oxi ola;

PETALWTHS: H symmetoxh sta mploka den shmainei kai ypokinhsh apo ena sygkekrimeno komma. Emeis menoyme  kai qeloyme na meinoyme ekei- sthn epishmh antidrash twn kommatwn kai etsi thn ajiologoyme. Alla, blepoyme kai ti ginetai sthn pragmatikothta.

MOYRELATOS: Mhpws oi agrotikes kinhtopoihseis, k. Ekproswpe, anadeiknyoyn kai ena allo problhma epikoinwniakoy xarakthra poy antimetwpizei h kybernhsh; Giati exoyme syneidhtopoihsei oti o k. Papandreoy ennoei na katasthsei symmetoxoys se ayth thn eqnikh prospaqeia, oles tis paragwgikes tajeis kai osoys, en pash periptwsei, ephreazoyn perissotero h ligotero kai thn oikonomia, alla kai thn koinh gnwmh. Giati oi agrotes ayto den to katalabainoyn;

PETALWTHS: Emeis den leme oti den to katalabainoyn oi agrotes. Prwta ap` ola, milame gia toys agrotes oi opoioi briskontai sta mploka. Kai opws sas ejhghsa prohgoymenws, exoyn epilejei kapoies morfes kinhtopoihshs stis opoies emeis den symfwnoyme. Emeis leme oti qa prepei na erqoyn se dialogo. Apo ekei kai pera, eimaste pepeismenoi oti sto telos qa prytaneysei h logikh, sto telos qa prytaneysei h epiqymia na lyqoyn ta zhthmata kai na mhn ginoyn apospasmatikes energeies gia allh mia fora apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh kai qa exoyme enan eilikrinh dialogo me toys agrotes gia ta megala qemata toys.

MOYRELATOS: To telos, to prosdiorizete xronika; Eipate ``sto telos qa prytaneysei h logikh''.

PETALWTHS: Emeis apeyqynoyme mia diarkh prosklhsh stoys agrotes gia dialogo kai pisteyoyme oti qa ginei dekth ayth h prosklhsh.

MIXAHL: Xqes, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio poy egine syzhthsh...

PETALWTHS: Sto atypo.

MIXAHL: Sto atypo, ayto, plhroforhqhkame oti yphrje h genikoterh ektimhsh pws h k. Mpatzelh qa xreiastei th syndromh olhs ths kybernhshs gia na antimetwpistei ayto to problhma kai xreiazetai h genikoterh politikh sthrijh gia na mporesei na ektonwqei h katastash. Ektimate oti eginan lanqasmenoi xeirismoi mexri twra h yphrje kapoias morfhs adraneia apo to synolo h mallon apo pleyres ths kybernhtikhs mhxanhs, oi opoies den kinhtopoihqhkan grhgora, me apotelesma h k. Mpatzelh na breqei monh ths me ta mploka.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, h ka. Mpatzelh den einai monh ths me ta mploka. Yparxei sysswmh sthrijh apo thn kybernhsh, yparxei syllogikh drash ths kybernhshs. Apo ekei kai pera, thn politikh toy kaqe ypoyrgeioy thn orizei kai th sxediazei o armodios ypoyrgos. Alla epoydeni mporoyme na dexqoyme oti den yparxei sthrijh sthn ka. Mpatzelh. Kai mono to oti sas anaferw mia seira apo dieykolynseis twn agrotwn kai entajhs toys se eynoikes ryqmiseis mesa se aytoys toys treis mhnes, deixnei akribws, apodeiknyei oti to ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs, me thn ka. Mpatzelh kai ton k. Karximakh, kanei mia ejairetikh kai kyriws yparxei, se baqos xronoy, sxedio gia to mellon twn agrotwn kai twn kthnotrofwn mas.

LASKARATOS: Xqes, mas eipate oti eyelpisteite na anoijoyn oi dromoi prin thn enarjh toy anoixtoy dialogoy, prin th Deytera. Eiste kai shmera to idio aisiodojos;

PETALWTHS: Eimaste aisiodojoi, giati pisteyoyme oti oi kinhseis ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs einai dikaies kai einai aytes oi opoies dhmioyrgoyn proypoqeseis gia na epilyqoyn ta zhthmata twn agrotwn.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Me tis allages poy prowqeite h poy exete etoimasei se o,ti afora sto syndikalistiko twn agrotwn, den fobaste mhpws sas kathgorhsoyn gia elegxo sto syndikalistiko twn agrotwn;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, qa yparjei protash pros diaboyleysh. Poy shmainei oti qa klhqoyn, prwta ap` ola, oi idioi oi agrotes kai oloi oi emplekomenoi foreis na syndiamorfwsoyn to qesmiko plaisio toy agrotikoy syndikalistikoy kinhmatos. Ara kaneis, mesa apo aytes tis diadikasies kai gia tis opoies kathgoroymaste malista oti eimaste yperbolikoi, alla einai isxyrh pepoiqhsh mas oti mesa apo aytes tis diadikasies qa pernoyn ta nomoqethmata, exoyme th synainesh kai qa exoyme th synainesh kyriws toy agrotikoy kosmoy. Kai ayto einai shmantiko, giati pera apo ta proswpa kai tis sygkyries toy sysxetismoy mesa sto syndikalistiko kinhma, mas endiaferei mia gnhsia ekproswphsh olwn osoi syndikalizontai kai idiaitera ston agrotiko tomea.

SOFIANOS: H eikona poy dinei h Ellada sto ejwteriko, otan malista kanoyme mia prospaqeia na peisoyme tis agores, h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh edwse ena ejamhno, wstoso stis agores blepoyme ta spread anebainoyn, to Xrhmatisthrio peftei, h eikona loipon poy dinetai me ola ayta ta mploka, thn paralysh poy yparxei sth xwra, stis metakinhseis, sth diakinhsh proiontwn  me thn prosfygh ths Boylgarias- anhsyxei thn kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws kai thn anhsyxei. Safws kai den einai h kalyterh eikona ths xwras mas sto ejwteriko. Gi` ayto akribws desmeyomaste oti qa epilysoyme ta zhthmata ayta me dialogo, etsi wste na pacei na yparxei ayth h eikona, pera apo thn oysia fysika.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Ayth th stigmh, to problhma ayto me toys agrotes to synantame kaqe xrono. Kaqe xrono sxedon, oi agrotes kleinoyn ta mploka. To 2013 stamatoyn oi epixorhghseis, toylaxiston to megalytero meros twn epixorhghsewn. Yparxei kapoios sxediasmos gia to ti problepetai gia thn katastash poy qa antimetwpisoyn tote oi agrotes kai endexomenws h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Ma kai emeis ayto katanooyme, ayto antilambanomaste kai antimetwpizoyme me ayth th syllogistikh: Oti dinontas kapoia poly liga cixoyla kaqe xrono, den mporoyme na jegelame toys agrotes mas, den mporoyme na anakyklwnoyme ena zhthma etsi wste kaqe xrono na exoyme ta idia. Gi` ayto qeloyme na yparxoyn rizikes ryqmiseis, rizikes allages kai metaboles, etsi wste na lyqoyn epiteloys, me ton tropo poy mporoyn na lyqoyn, ta agrotika problhmata gia na mhn exoyme kaqe xrono ta idia kai xwris na bgazei poyqena olo ayto to pragma.

GIANNISHS: Apo tis epafes poy exete kanei eseis, o k. Jynidhs kai bebaiws h k. Mpatzelh, exete kapoia aisiodoja mhnymata, kapoies qetikes endeijeis oti qa fygoyn oi agrotes apo kapoia, toylaxiston, mploka;

PETALWTHS: Emeis prospaqoyme, mesa apo tis epafes poy kanoyme, na ejhghsoyme stoys agrotes kai thn politikh mas kai thn prooptikh ths epilyshs toy agrotikoy zhthmatos. Pisteyoyme oti oso kalytera ejhghqei kai perasei to mhnyma ayto stoys agrotes, toso pio grhgora qa exoyme lysh aytwn twn kinhtopoihsewn kai eleysh toys sto dialogo me oles tis morfes.

POLYMEROS: Apo o,ti blepw shmera, h Epitroph, poy me thn prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs sygkrothqhke, gia thn ajiopistia twn statistikwn stoixeiwn, gia na ta elegjei, diapistwnei oti to pragmatiko dhmosio xreos einai megalytero apo to epishmo. Dhladh, fqanei konta sta 300 dis, kapoy sta 6 me 8 dis perissotera apo ayta poy pragmatika eixame diapistwsei oti yparxoyn. Ayto shmainei ti; Allagh sxediasmoy se kapoies prwtoboylies poy eixe parei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na pw oti ontws h ellhnikh kybernhsh, to oikonomiko epiteleio, eixe apofasisei na dhmioyrghqei mia Epitroph gia na elegjei ayta poy eipate prohgoymenws. Ayth h Epitroph qa kataqesei to porisma ston ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn kai qa dhmosiopoihqei ayto to porisma. Ayto gia to opoio, omws, qelw na sas diabebaiwsw einai oti to xreos mas katagrafetai akribws etsi opws dhmosiopoihqhke mexri stigmhs, me ton tropo ton opoio epibalei, me ton tropo ton opoio ryqmizei h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Ara, as meinoyme me o,ti exoyme mexri twra. Me to poy qa dhmosiopoihqei to porisma, qa doyme isws kai allagh toy tropoy kataxwrhshs. Pantws, isxyoyn ayta poy exoyme kanei kai exoyme pei mexri twra.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Eipate prin oti proqesh sas einai na lysete ta qesmika, kyriws, problhmata twn agrotwn. To epanelabe kai xqes o Prwqypoyrgos. Ena apo qesmika aithmata twn agrotwn einai na katarghqei o diaxwrismos twn agrotwn se kata kyrio epaggelma h mh. Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs apenanti se ayto to aithma twn agrotwn;

PETALWTHS: Ayta einai zhthmata einai leptomereies, oi opoies qa syzhthqoyn mesa apo to dialogo kai qa yparxoyn lyseis. Alla, ayto poy eipa kai to epanalambanw, ola ta qesmika aithmata h emeis hdh exoyme kanei bhmata proodoy mesa se aytoys toys treis mhnes, eite ta exoyme balei sto trapezi ths diaboyleyshs, toy dialogoy. To na apofasizoyme shmera emeis, ws kybernhsh, mas htan para poly eykolo. Emeis qeloyme th symmetoxh twn agrotwn gia na apofasistoyn kai tetoioy eidoys zhthmata, ta opoia einai shmantika kai zwtika gia thn epibiwsh kai thn anaptyjh twn idiwn twn agrotwn.

MOYRELATOS: Para thn kat` arxhn qetikh ypodoxh poy etyxe to Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs sthn Komision, blepoyme oti oi dieqneis agores antidroyn arnhtika, neyrika kai synexizoyn na to kanoyn. Shmera, de, ta spread twn (den akoygetai) omologwn exoyn ektinaxqei sta ych, se istoriko ychlo. Pws alhqeia skeftetai h kybernhsh na to antimetwpisei olo ayto;

PETALWTHS: Emeis safws kai parakoloyqoyme thn ektinajh twn spread kai th diakymansh toys, giati exei amesh synepeia sthn oikonomia mas. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, den xarassoyme thn politikh mas me tis kaqhmerines ayjomeiwseis twn spread. Emeis ayto poy kanoyme einai na leitoyrgoyme qetika. Emeis kataqesame ena qetiko Programma Staqerothtas, poy brhke malista kai antapokrish hdh apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Mas endiaferei na exoyme mia staqerothta stis epiloges mas kai eimaste sigoyroi oti, bazontas zhthmata kai qemelia ajiopistias ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai oi dieqneis agores qa antidroyn se ligo me ton analogo tropo kai ton epiqymhto gia emas, fysika.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ejaitias toy ellhnikoy oikonomikoy problhmatos, xqes to eyrw epese enanti toy dolarioy gyrw sto 1,3%. Se poio pososto ptwshs toy eyrw enanti toy dolarioy qa arxisei na anhsyxei h kybernhsh kai na katalabainei oti kati ginetai;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh safws kai antilambanetai para polla kai oxi ``oti kati ginetai''. Lambanei metra, metra staqerothtas, metra rizika, etsi wste na yparxei staqerothta sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. Kai ayto poy me rwtate, entassetai mesa sta oria ths staqerothtas ths ellhnikhs oikonomias.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Synexei aytoy: Geniko Grammatea gia to ESPA skopeyei h kybernhsh na topoqethsei;

PETALWTHS: Qa anakoinwqei syntomotata. Alla na moy epitrecete ws pros ayto  proektash- na pw oti gia to ESPA eidika, h ellhnikh kybernhsh hdh ergazetai sklhra. Hdh exoyme paralabei ena ESPA me aporrofhtikothta molis 3,1%, hdh ginetai anaqewrhsh twn stoxwn toy ESPA kai se ligo qa fanei posa, shmantika, bhmata kanoyme. Ti den ekane h prohgoymenh kybernhsh to katanooyme, otan afhse xronia oloklhra na xaqei ayto to polytimo ergaleio gia thn anaptyjh ths xwras mas kai se ligo qa fanei ti akribws kanoyme kai emeis.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Pantws, h kaqysterhsh sthn topoqethsh Genikoy Grammatea den einai kapoia sobarh energeia. Kai malista ayto  sas epishmainw, sas to ypenqymizw- to epishmane kai o k. Papoytshs, oti yparxei problhma sthn ylopoihsh aytoy toy anaptyjiakoy qematos. En pash periptwsei...

PETALWTHS: Pantws, den kaqysterei h aporrofhtikothta kai h ylopoihsh toy ESPA. Yparxei enas sxediasmos kai mia ylopoihsh h opoia trexei. Gi` ayto sas diabebaiwnw.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Prokeimenoy na lyqoyn ta problhmata syntonismoy, apo o,ti antilambanomai, sto oikonomiko epiteleio kai sthn kybernhsh, exei analabei o k. Pagkalos (etsi den einai;) na lynei ta diafora problhmata, apo o,ti fainetai kai apo th shmerinh synedriash;

PETALWTHS: Anafereste, profanws, sthn Epitroph th shmerinh, etsi;

MAKRYGIANNHS: Malista.

PETALWTHS: H shmerinh synedriash ayths ths Epitrophs exei ws stoxo thn parakoloyqhsh toy Programmatos Staqerothtas, Anaptyjhs kai Anasygkrothshs -qa synelqei eidika gi` ayto to zhthma- kaqws kai mia epiblech ti ginetai me tis DEKO. Den mporoyme na kataqetoyme ena Programma Staqerothtas xwris na to parakoloyqoyme me enan epishmo kai sobaro tropo. Ayto to nohma exei h shmerinh synedriash kai oses synedriaseis ayths ths Epitrophs akoloyqhsoyn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Egw rwtw kai gia to rolo toy k. Pagkaloy.

PETALWTHS: O k. Pagkalos einai antiproedros ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai exei to sygkekrimeno rolo. Ta oikonomika omws, ennoeitai oti ta sxediazei, ta ylopoiei to oikonomiko epiteleio kai bebaiws me th syndromh sysswmhs ths kybernhshs.

SOFIANOS: Anaferqhkate prohgoymenws oti eyelpisteite oti oi agores qa peistoyn se ligo. An mporeite na mas prosdiorisete poso einai gia thn kybernhsh ayto to ``ligo''. Kai mia deyterh erwthsh: O k. Papandreoy thn epomenh ebdomada qa brisketai se eyrwpaikes prwteyoyses. Qa einai h oikonomia ths Ellados ena apo ta qemata twn epafwn poy qa exei me eyrwpaioys hgetes;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa prohgoymenws gia ta spread oti parakoloyqoyme kai ennoeitai oti ta parakoloyqoyme me anhsyxia. Emeis omws xarassoyme staqeres politikes kai eimaste sigoyroi  kai ayto ejhgeitai kai apo ta dieqnh oikonomika stoixeia- oti otan yparxei mia staqerothta sthn oikonomia mias xwras, tote kai to spread kai ola ta oikonomika megeqh staqeropoioyntai kai ginontai pio eynoika. Oso pio grhgora peisoyme oti exoyme mia oikonomia diaforetikh apo ayth h opoia apeikonizetai ston jeno Typo kai stis dieqneis agores, toso kalytero kai pio symferon einai gia th xwra mas. Dystyxws, h eikona poy exei h ellhnikh kybernhsh, h ellhnikh Politeia, einai mia asxhmh eikona. Kai akribws kai sto plaisio ths antistrofhs ayths ths eikonas, entassetai kai to tajidi toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Pera apo toys ypoloipoys stoxoys twn tajidiwn toy Prwqypoyrgoy, exoyme ws melhma na epanaferoyme thn ajiopistia ths xwras mas sto ejwteriko, na parei pali h Ellada th qesh poy ths ajizei eidika sthn Eyrwph, alla kai sthn pagkosmia koinh gnwmh gia na exoyme mia kalyterh antimetwpish se ola ta epipeda.

SOFIANOS: Oson afora gia ton k. Papakwnstantinoy; Qa pame sto plaisio o k. Papandreoy sthn Eyrwph kai o k. Papakwnstantinoy se HPA kai Kina;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn exei tis epafes poy exei, prokeimenoy na beltiwqei h ellhnikh oikonomia, na yparjoyn symfwnies, genikws na mporesei na kinhqei kai pali h ellhnikh oikonomia sto dieqnes oikonomiko sterewma me enan ygih tropo.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ektos apo to agrotiko, exoyn lhfqei kapoies apofaseis ton teleytaio kairo sthn kybernhsh poy isws prokalesoyn alles antidraseis. Anaferomai, gia paradeigma, sth meiwsh twn epidomatwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, kaqws kai tis ejaggelies toy ypoyrgoy Ergasias gia mh syntajiodothsh, telos pantwn, gia kapoia kekthmena dikaiwmata poy xanontai. Fobaste alles kinhtopoihseis se alloys kladoys;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola qa prepei na jekaqarisoyme ti ginetai me ta epidomata, epeidh blepoyme oti diakinoyntai polla senaria kai malista se poly probeblhmena shmeia. Den yparxei apofash ths kybernhshs tetoia poy na antistoixei se o,ti akoygetai. H apofash ths kybernhshs, toy oikonomikoy epiteleioy poy perigrafetai kai sto Programma Staqerothtas, einai na perikopei to synoliko kondyli twn epidomatwn kata 10%. Den perikoptontai ola ta epidomata kata 10% kai den isxyoyn ayta ta opoia panikoblhta diaxeontai ws fhmes kai senaria olo to teleytaio xroniko diasthma. Na sas ejhghsw mono oti apo ayth thn perikoph kata 10%, h synolikh perikoph toy kondylioy twn epidomatwn, yparxei sto Programma Staqerothtas problech gia ejoikonomhsh 650 ekatommyriwn eyrw. Kai fysika einai profanes oti ejairoyntai apo aytes tis perikopes shmantika epidomata, opws einai to oikogeneiako epidoma, to epidoma paidiwn. Epidomata ta opoia den qa qixtoyn kai yparxei kai mia allh seira apo epidomata poy qa ejeidikeytoyn. Se ayto to shmeio na entopisw kai na dieykrinisw oti h perikoph twn epidomatwn qa ginetai me analogiko tropo. Kai h analogia twn perikopwn exei ws ejhs: Sta xamhla epidomata, poy afora kai sta xamhla eisodhmata, h perikoph qa einai poly mikroterh apo oso qa einai sta ychla epidomata, ara sta ychla eisodhmata. Erxomaste, me enan tropo dikaio, na baloyme tajh sta epidomata, na kanoyme thn ejoikonomhsh poy apaitei h shmerinh ellhnikh sygkyria, etsi wste na yparxei kai mia dikaih antimetwpish. Den dikaiologeitai kanenas panikos. Ola ayta qa ejeidikeyqoyn me to nomosxedio gia thn eisodhmatikh politikh poy qa ferei h kybernhsh apo to Febroyario kai meta.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Apo poy phgazoyn ola ayta ta senaria kai oi plhrofories; Den sas exei problhmatisei to gegonos oti edw kai toylaxiston 2 mhnes anti na exoyme sygkekrimena metra, sygkekrimenes apofaseis, exoyme aplws diaceyseis se plhrofories kai metra ta opoia blepoyme na dhmosieyontai. H phgh exei entopistei; Problhmatizei thn kybernhsh ayto to qema;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws problhmatizomaste giati anti na proballontai ta qetika bhmata toy kybernhtikoy ergoy  oxi epikoinwniaka, oysiastika- proballontai kapoies fhmes kai senaria poy yparxoyn kai ta opoia dhmioyrgoyn adikaiologhto paniko stoys Ellhnes polites. Gi` ayto sas ejhghsa eidika oti ola ayta poy grafontai gia tis perikopes twn epidomatwn den exoyn isxy. Einai teleiws diaforetikh h filosofia ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs. Qa einai dikaih h perikoph twn epidomatwn kai gi` ayto as perimenoyme na yparjei apofash, mesa apo sygkekrimenes diadikasies, wste na fanei poia epidomata kai pws qa perikopoyn.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na epimeinw. Oi dhmosiografoi den ta gennoyn apo th fantasia toys ayta ta opoia grafontai. Giati ayta poy grafontai kai diarreontai, proerxontai apo kapoies phges. Kai aytes oi phges den einai tyxaies. Tis exete entopisei;

PETALWTHS: Qa mporoysate kai eseis oi dhmosiografoi na bohqhsete na tis entopisoyme...

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Oi dhmosiografoi den apokalyptoyn tis phges toys.

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti asteieyomai, dioti yparxei diasfalish ths doyleias sas. Ekeino, omws, poy mporw na pw, einai oti oses syzhthseis ginontai caxnontas phges, oi phges aytes ginontai toso pio aneyqynes. Einai yphresiakes, kaqenas mporei na anaferei kapoies protaseis ws apofaseis poy oxi aplws den exoyn lhfqei, alla oyte prokeitai pote na lhfqoyn. Gi` ayto leme oti mono me tis nomoqetikes probleceis, etsi opws apotypwnontai stis protaseis pros diaboyleysh kai sta nomoqethmata ths kybernhshs, qa mporoyme na milame gia sigoyres ryqmiseis se ayta ta zhthmata. Eidika, omws, to zhthma twn perikopwn epidomatwn, poy fainetai ws perikoph misqwn, den isxyei. Sas eipa ti isxyei.

BITALHS: Sto idio qema. Epeidh to qema to anoije o synadelfos, to anoije kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, otan dexqhke toys politikoys syntaktes sto Megaro Majimoy, anamesa sta Xristoygenna kai thn Prwtoxronia...

PETALWTHS: Kai eipe ayta poy sas eipa.

BITALHS: Peite moy kati omws. Ektote, diapistwnei kai o Prwqypoyrgos to megeqos enos problhmatos, exoyn mesolabhsei peripoy 20-25 meres. Ti exei ginei; Dioti ayta ta pragmata yparxoyn kai o kosmos apo to prwi mexri to brady akoyei posa lefta qa xasei, posa qa toy paroyn apo thn tseph kai ti qa toy perikocoyn.

PETALWTHS: Tis perissoteres fores prokeitai gia anypostata senaria.

BITALHS: Ti exei ginei, omws, kyrie Ekproswpe, otan to exei qesei o Prwqypoyrgos to qema; Ti exei ginei ws pros ayta ta senaria;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti ayto poy mporoyme na kanoyme, einai na epalhqeyoyme h na diaceydoyme ayta poy dhmosieyontai. To na cajoyme kai na kynhgame poioi diarreoyn ayta ta senaria, den einai oyte qesh ths kybernhshs oyte leitoyrgia ths kybernhshs. H kybernhsh milaei mesw twn armodiwn ypoyrgwn, mesw toy kybernhtikoy ekproswpoy kai mesw twn qesmoqethmenwn organwn ths. To an ayta ta senaria diaxeontai apo yphresiakoys paragontes h apo opoiondhpote exei idees kai protaseis, ayto einai ena zhthma poy den afora thn kybernhsh. Exei ypoxrewsh, omws, h kybernhsh na diaceydei o,ti einai pros diaceysh, etsi wste na stamathsei aytos o panikos poy dhmioyrgeitai gia dhqen perikopes misqwn, gia dhqen prowres syntajiodothseis, oi opoies dhmioyrgoyn ena kyma fyghs stoys dhmosioys ypallhloys. Ayta ta katadikazoyme kai ta epejhgoyme oso mporoyme perissotero.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Na sas dwsw mia ajiopisth phgh; O ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn sto Londino, gia to qema twn epidomatwn poy eipate prin, eipe oti meiwsh kata 10% twn epidomatwn isodynamei me 4% onomastikh meiwsh twn misqwn. Ayto einai mia ajiopisth phgh h den einai;

PETALWTHS: Einai ajiopisto kai safestato ayto poy eipe o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn oti ta epidomata qa perikopoyn kata 10%. To qema einai oti den qa perikopoyn ola ta epidomata. Kai epanalambanw oti ta xamhla epidomata qa perikopoyn kata poly ligotero kai ta ychla epidomata kata poly perissotero. Den blepw na yparxei antifash.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qa yparxei onomastikh meiwsh kata 4% twn misqwn; To eixe pei o k. Papakwnstantinoy ayto.

PETALWTHS: Egw milhsa gia ta epidomata.

QEODWROPOYLOS: To exei pei sto Sity toy Londinoy, oti qa yparjei onomastikh meiwsh twn misqwn kata 4%.

PETALWTHS: Exete mia emmonh se ayto. Alla ayto poy lete einai poly genikeymeno kai adikei thn pragmatikothta.

Sas eyxaristw.

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