Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-11-16

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 16 Noembrioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 235523339

Ekdosh 1

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KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 16 Noembrioy 2009

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalhmera kai kalh ebdomada.

H kybernhsh synexizei me staqerothta kai apofasistikothta thn poreia ths gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn, poy aforoyn th xwra kai thn ellhnikh koinwnia. Opoy xreiazetai, parembainoyme gia na antimetwpisoyme anoixta problhmata, ta opoia klhronomhsame, kai apaitoyn kai ameses lyseis. Parallhla, proxwrame sthn ylopoihsh twn desmeysewn mas.

Opws hdh gnwrizete, h kybernhsh qa anoijei eyrytato dialogo gia ola ta meizona qemata, gia ta opoia exoyme proanaggeilei kai me to programma mas kai me tis desmeyseis mas, megales allages kai tomes. Se ayto to dialogo qa klhqoyn oloi na kataqesoyn tis qeseis toys.

Einai aytonohto oti apaitoyntai taxytata bhmata. Qa akoystoyn oloi. H kybernhsh qa labei tis apofaseis ths kai qa proxwrhsei sthn ylopoihsh toys.

Oi qeseis ths kybernhshs einai gnwstes. Sta epimeroys zhthmata, oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi topoqetoyntai, otan yparxei wrimothta xronoy kai qesewn. Aytos einai o tropos poy ekfrazontai oi ypeyqynes qeseis ths kybernhshs.

Parakalw gia tis erwthseis sas.

ANTYPAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mia dieykrinish, arxika: Otan lete oti oi Ypoyrgoi topoqetoyntai otan yparxoyn wrimes qeseis, epeidh exoyme dei kai topoqethseis Ypoyrgwn xwris na exoyn na poyn kati idiaitero, ayto einai mia momfh toy Megaroy Majimoy pros kapoioys sygkekrimenoys Ypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs;

PETALWTHS: Egw, opws antilambaneste, ekproswpw thn kybernhsh, syllogika kai synolika. Den yparxei  ennoeitai- kamia momfh. Oi Ypoyrgoi topoqetoyntai ypeyqyna kai me thn wrimothta, poy xreiazetai stis periptwseis aytes. Einai gnwsto oti se ayth thn kybernhsh den anakoinwnoyme pleon mono apofaseis. Ta qemata anoigoyn, etsi wste na yparxei o analogos dialogos me thn koinwnia, me toys foreis, me toys polites kai en telei h apofash lambanetai apo thn kybernhsh.

ANTYPAS: Kai mia erwthsh: Otan lete oti qa akoystoyn oloi, qa yparjoyn kai synanthseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me politikoys arxhgoys h kapoio ektakto diaggelma, se dramatikoys tonoys, opws diabasame se efhmerides;

PETALWTHS: Gia to diaggelma  kai egw to diabasa se efhmerides- den yparxei kamia tetoia skech. Alla einai aytonohto oti otan milame gia megalo, anoixto dialogo, ennoeitai oti se ayton symperilambanontai kai ta kommata.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Qa exei morfh synanthsewn me toys arxhgoys;

PETALWTHS: Qa ejeidikeytei kai mallon qa yparjei tetoia synanthsh me toys arxhgoys.

PITTARAS: Yparxei to qema ths griphs. Ayth th stigmh, ta mhnymata pros thn koinwnia einai antifatika. Apo th mia eseis bgainete kai toys lete na pane oloi kai na emboliastoyn, apo thn allh oi anqrwpoi poy exoyn analabei ayto to ergo, eite paraitoyntai, opws egine shmera me ton epikefalhs ayths ths diadikasias sth Qessalonikh, kai lene, egw den mporw, apo th stigmh poy den to kanw o idios na systhnw ston kosmo na to kanei, sxoleia kleinoyn. Shmera eixame kai ton qanato mias neas kopelas h opoia eixe xtyphqei apo ayth th griph. Telika, ti ginetai; Poia einai ta mhnymata poy stelnete eseis pros ta ejw;

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy mporoyme na poyme einai oti kai sto qema ths griphs yparxei mia entonh apofasistikothta ths kybernhshs. H kybernhsh topoqeteitai ypeyqyna. Einai ypeyqynh gia th xarajh politikhs, kai malista otan afora se tetoioy eidoys zhthmata, ta opoia exoyn na kanoyn me thn ygeia twn politwn. Hdh, to Ypoyrgeio Ygeias exei deijei oti exei sygkekrimenes politikes se ayto to zhthma. Yparxei ejairetikos syntonismos panw se ayto to qema. Apo shmera jekinoyn emboliasmoi. Hdh, h Ypoyrgos Ygeias edwse to prwto deigma kai apo kei kai pera, akoloyqeitai h ypeyqynh politikh ths kybernhshs. Ta sxoleia de, kleinoyn mono gia logoys prolhchs, gia na mh diadoqei h asqeneia ayth kai se alloys maqhtes.

TOYMASHS: Grafthke kai grafetai kai shmera pws yparxei dysarmonia endokybernhtikhs synantilhchs metajy kybernhtikwn melwn, opws twn kyriwn Papakwnstantinoy kai Saxinidh, Benizeloy kai Mpeglith, Katselh kai Pagkaloy  Anwmerith. Ena mhna, loipon, meta tis ekloges, h kybernhsh ergazetai se klima kai pneyma paradeisias syntrofikhs allhleggyhs kai altroyismoy h opws isxyrizontai alloi, boyliazei se endokybernhtikes allhloyponomeyseis kai pws sxoliazete ta fainomena ths kybernhtikhs dysleitoyrgias;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den yparxei kamia kybernhtikh dysleitoyrgia. H kybernhsh mesa sto ligo xroniko diasthma poy exei analabei th diakybernhsh ths xwras, deixnei ena ergo ejairetiko. Einai paragwgikh, einai mia kybernhsh h opoia ergazetai, mia kybernhsh h opoia syskeptetai kai se typikoys ryqmoys, alla kai se atypoys. Yparxei syzhthsh mesa sthn kybernhsh gia ta sygkekrimena qemata, lambanontai apofaseis toses kai tetoias poiothtas poy se prohgoymenes kybernhseis, epi xronia, den eixan lhfqei. Den yparxoyn zhthmata oyte arryqmias ths kybernhshs, oyte dysleitoyrgias, oyte tetoioy eidoys sxesewn, opws perigracate, metajy twn Ypoyrgwn. Diaceydontai kathgorhmatika.

MPEQANH: O Prwqypoyrgos pragmatopoihse to prwi, ap` o,ti enhmerwqhkame, mia akomh aifnidiastikh episkech. Phge sto KEP sthn Plateia Syntagmatos. Poio einai to skeptiko toy Prwqypoyrgoy; Giati kanei aytes tis episkeceis; Eixe prohghqei h episkech toy sto IKA. Poios einai o stoxos aytwn twn episkecewn; Akoyei toys polites genikotera gia thn politikh poy akoloyqei, tis prwtoboylies poy lambanei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei apodeijei mesa se aytes tis liges hmeres diakybernhshs, alla kai ws arxhgos ths antipoliteyshs, oti einai enas politikos o opoios brisketai konta sthn koinwnia. Ayth thn taktikh, ayth thn politikh akoloyqoyse prin ginei Prwqypoyrgos, ayth akoloyqei mexri kai shmera. Kai pisteyw oti to zhthma ths episkechs, toso sto IKA oso kai shmera sto KEP, einai zhthma poy afora toys idioys toys polites. Blepoyn ton Prwqypoyrgo ths xwras na brisketai dipla sta problhmata -oxi epikoinwniaka, giati phgainei kai xwris kameres- na syzhta me ergazomenoys, me polites, etsi wste na yparxei mia pio amesh eikona gia ta problhmata ths xwras kai to ti politikh prepei na akoloyqhqei panw se ayta. Einai enas Prwqypoyrgos poy einai dipla sthn kaqhmerinothta toy aploy Ellhna polith.

GIANNISHS: Hqela na sas rwthsw, giati mpainontas edw shmera aisqanqhkate thn anagkh na kanete ayto to eisagwgiko sxolio; Poio einai to qema akribws; Gia poio logo aisqanetai h kybernhsh oti prepei na steilei to mhnyma dialogoy, alla kai to gegonos oti exei klhronomhsei poly sobara problhmata apo thn prohgoymenh;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh den aisqanetai thn anagkh na steilei to mhnyma dialogoy shmera. To exei steilei pro polloy. Einai mia kybernhsh h opoia syzhta. Hdh, opws eipa kai sthn eishghsh moy, einai gnwsto oti qa arxisei enas megalos eqnikos koinwnikos dialogos. Ginontai aples diapistwseis kai nomizw oti ta mhnymata ta opoia pernoyn gia to pws doyleyei h kybernhsh, einai mhnymata poy aporreoyn apo thn kaqhmerinh ths leitoyrgia.

GIANNISHS: Se allo qema: O Agios Iwanninwn, ypeyqynos epi twn oikonomikwn ths Ekklhsias, shmera to prwi feretai na exei dhlwsei sta Giannena oti h Ekklhsia den protiqetai na plhrwsei toys peiramatismoys ths kybernhshs sthn oikonomikh politikh h kapws etsi, den sas to metaferw epi lejei. Alla, oti en pash periptwsei, einai kathgorhmatika antiqetos stis proqeseis ths kybernhshs na forologhsei thn ekklhsiastikh perioysia.

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy mporw na pw egw shmera einai oti h kybernhsh exei desmeytei oti qa anoijei enas dialogos gia th forologhsh ths Ekklhsias. Kai einai logiko oti shmera, se ayth th dyskolh epoxh poy pername, den mporei h Ekklhsia  kai nomizw oti to antilambanetai kai h idia- na meinei ejw apo ayth th syneisfora ths sta oikonomika ths xwras. Prwta apo ola, qa ejeidikeytei meta to dialogo ayth h politikh ths kybernhshs apenanti sthn Ekklhsia. Oson afora sta akinhta, yparxei h desmeysh oti qa forologhqoyn akinhta poy exoyn sxesh me thn emporikh ths drasthriothta. Alla, kai gia thn ektakth eisfora, epanalambanw oti h Ekklhsia den qa mporoyse na meinei ejw apo ayth th syneisfora.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe prospaqw na katalabw gia pio logo h kybernhsh zhtaei ayto ton eyry dialogo gia ola ta megala qemata poy exei klhronomhsei. Dioti, hdh ta kommata kai oi foreis apantoyn, akribws gia ayto thn ejelejan me 160 boyleytes - malista, kai me aneth koinoboyleytikh pleiochfia  gia na dwsei lyseis. Kai lene oti emeis den qa mpoyme se mia logikh na sthrijoyme thn kybernhsh kai na paroyme meros toy politikoy kostoys poy qa yparxei gia tis dyskoles apofaseis poy xreiazontai. Kata synepeia otan yparxei ayth h ek twn proterwn qesh twn kommatwn, h kybernhsh poy stoxeyei me ayton ton dialogo; Na apoferei, ti;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh safws, einai ayth h opoia en telei apofasizei kai me th megalh dynamikh poy elabe stis 4 Oktwbrioy, eklegontas 160 boyleytes sto ellhniko Koinoboylio. Apo kei kai pera, omws, emeis qeloyme na kanoyme symmetoxo olh thn ellhnikh koinwnia kai mia ekfrash ths ellhnikhs koinwnias einai kai ta politika kommata. Jekiname, loipon, ayton ton dialogo, oxi mono me ta kommata, alla me foreis kai polites. Epanalambanw oti ta kommata den qa mporoysan na meinoyn ejw apo ayton ton dialogo. Den zhtame synypeyqynothta, zhtame symmetoxh apo oloys.

MIXAHL: Otan zhtate th symmetoxh, ek twn pragmatwn oi symmetexontes, me dedomeno oti exoyn ekfrasei hdh, thn arnhsh toys na mpoyn sthn oysia twn oswn qa zhtate gia na breqoyn lyseis, to apotelesma einai na ginei enas dialogos, o opoios qa krathsei oso qa krathsei kai sto  dia tayta na mhn exei prokycei tipota. Dedomenoy oti kai eseis pali qa parete tis apofaseis tis opoies qa parete kai twra. Dhladh, qelw na pw oti ta kommata den exoyn kamia diaqesh na sas dieykolynoyn (entos h ektos eisagwgikwn h lejh), gia tis dyskoles apofaseis oi opoies anamenontai se megala krisima zhthmata.

PETALWTHS: Emeis, jekiname me mia eilikrinh prosklhsh dialogoy. O dialogos, ston opoio kaloyme ta kommata, toys foreis kai toys polites, den einai prosxhmatikos. Einai dialogos oysias. Giati emeis, epidiwkoyme kai prosdokoyme na kanoyme tis megales allages kai rhjeis sthn ellhnikh koinwnia se sxesh me thn oikonomia kai se sxesh me thn koinwnia. Kai gia ayton akribws ton logo den qa mporoysan na meinoyn oi proskaloymenoi ejw apo aytes tis megales allages.

BLABIANOS: Me alla logia zhtate synainesh apo ta alla politika kommata;

PETALWTHS: Zhtame dialogo kai symmetoxh sthn ekfrash apocewn kai qesewn.

SIDERHS: Eisagwgika eipate oti apaitoyntai taxytata bhmata. Na ypoqesoyme toso taxytata, opws ayta me ta opoia anakoinwnete toys Genikoys kai Eidikoys Grammateis twn Ypoyrgeiwn;

PETALWTHS: To qema twn Genikwn kai Eidikwn Grammatewn twn Ypoyrgeiwn, to exoyme ejhghsei para polles fores. Emeis, jekinhsame mia diadikasia, thn opoia proxwrame, etsi wste na epilegoyn oi kalyteroi me ton pio dhmokratiko kai anoixto tropo. Kai pisteyoyme, oti otan qa erqoyme na kanoyme ton apologismo aytwn twn apofasewn, aytos qa einai synolika toso gia th diadikasia oso kai gia ta proswpa ta opoia epeleghsan.

SIDERHS: Wstoso, exete epignwsh oti exei mplokarei h kratikh mhxanh, exoyn mplokarei ta Ypoyrgeia, kaqws oi Ypoyrgoi den mporoyn na antejoyn kai to baros twn eyqynwn twn Genikwn Grammatewn. Kai oi kairoi oy menetoi, mia kai qelete na kanete dramatikes allages ston kratiko mhxanismo, sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh.

PETALWTHS: Oi allages poy kanoyme ston kratiko mhxanismo perilambanoyn kai th diadikasia gia toys Genikoys Grammateis.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Xqes, katateqhke mia protash apo ton Proedro toy SYRIZA gia pro hmerhsias diatajhs syzhthsh sth Boylh gia to Asfalistiko h thleoptiko dialogo anamesa stoys politikoys Arxhgoys. Skepteste thn apodoxh mias tetoias protashs;

PETALWTHS: Oi protaseis poy katatiqentai kai malista apo arxhgoys twn kommatwn, einai eyprosdektes. Emeis, eimaste akribws aytoi, oi opoioi qeloyme na yparxei syzhthsh panw se megala zhthmata ths xwras, opws einai to Asfalistiko. Kai bebaiws, h meqodeysh ths syzhthshs, qa dromologhqei - me koinh symfwnia ennoeitai - kai kyriws kai mesa sth Boylh.

LAGOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, milhsate gia problhmata sthn oikonomia kai sthn koinwnia. Profanws, omws ta problhmata ths koinwnias kai ths diarqrwshs toy kratoys syndeontai me to noymero ena problhma poy den einai allo apo thn oikonomia. Poia (den akoygetai) dialogoy, otan hdh exoyme se epipedo Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs safeis endeijeis oti qa ypaxqoyme sto 104 par. 9, dhladh, apo tis aysthroteres morfes epithrhshs poy exoyn pote epiblhqei sth xwra mas. Kai yp ayth ennoia poios kai o orizontas toy dialogoy; Gia poio logo kai pote teleiwnei;

PETALWTHS: O dialogos gia thn oikonomia einai enas anoixtos dialogos. Emeis, bazoyme akribws to zhthma se ola ta epipeda kai se oles tis diastaseis. Otan milame gia oikonomia, den ennooyme mono enan tropo diaforetikhs forologhshs. Milame gia anaptyjh. Milame gia ena diaforetiko montelo anaptyjhs gia th xwra mas. Apo edw, jekiname na prosdiorisoyme, mesa stis dyskoles shmerines oikonomikes synqhkes, ti oikonomia qeloyme na dromologhsoyme, apo dw kai pera, me oles tis ekfanseis kai me oloys toys tropoys.

ANTYPAS: H k. Lagoy sas rwthse kati poly sygkekrimeno, k. Ekproswpe, to opoio kalo einai na to prosejete kai na mas dwsete apanthsh. Jekinate, lete enan anoixto dialogo. Ta xronodiagrammata, omws, apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh einai sygkekrimena. Oi anqrwpoi, aytoi poy mas plhrwnoyn, mas lene metra edw kai twra. Emeis, qa jekinhsoyme dialogo kai qa sfyrijoyn aytoi th lhjh h to exoyme labei ypoch mas.

PETALWTHS: Opws antilambaneste, h ellhnikh kybernhsh einai ypeyqynh gia to ti ginetai me ta oikonomika ths xwras, lambanontas yp ocin ola ayta ta opoia prwtoi emeis, anadeiknyoyme ws kaqhmerina, alla kai diarqrwtika problhmata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Hdh, aytes tis hmeres, katatiqetai o Proypologismos. Qa yparxei mia poly megalh syzhthsh gia ton prwto Proypologismo. Gia enan Proypologismo, o opoios exei ena metabatiko xarakthra. Ton exoyme xarakthrisei Proypologismo anagkhs. Apo kei kai pera, qa jekinhsei enas dialogos, gia ena neo forologiko systhma. Ara, einai antilhpto oti emeis pera apo th diaxeirish ths kaqhmerinothtas kai tis dyskolies, oi opoies mas epishmainontai kai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, qeloyme na dwsoyme enan diaforetiko orizonta, ena diaforetiko montelo anaptyjhs kai se oikonomiko epipedo.

POLYMEROS: Na sas paw alloy. Qa sas paw stoys apolymenoys ths Olympiakhs, oi opoioi mexri kai shmera lene oti kai h prohgoymenh, alla kai h shmerinh kybernhsh, mas jexase. Ti ennooyn me ayto: Qa sas qymisw oti h prohgoymenh kybernhsh eixe pei oti osoi apolyqoyn qa exoyn th dynatothta metaforas sto Dhmosio kai stis DEKO. Mesa sta sxedia ths kybernhshs yparxei mia tetoia prooptikh gia toys ergazomenoys;

PETALWTHS: Oi ergazomenoi ths Olympiakhs exoyn th qesh toys stis proteraiothtes ths kybernhshs. Hdh, yparxei mia koinh ypoyrgikh apofash, h opoia qa ypografei apo toys Ypoyrgoys Metaforwn Oikonomikwn, gia thn ergasiakh toys taktopoihsh, opws brisketai en ejelijei kai mia prajh nomoqetikoy periexomenoy gia ta asfalistika toys dikaiwmata.

PITTARAS: Epeidh anaferqhke o synadelfos sthn Olympiakh, prin apo ligo h kybernhsh dexqhke thn entonh kritikh toy k. Bgenopoyloy, me aformh thn ypoqesh twn agonwn grammwn. Kai malista, sas kathgorhse oti enw o idios edwse thn kalyterh prosfora, me kaqhmerinh ejyphrethsh twn politwn, xamhloteres times, eseis apofasisate kai dwsate tis grammes aytes se dyo alles etairies. Ti apantate;

PETALWTHS: Edw den yparxei mia ayqaireth apofash ths kybernhshs. Se tetoioy eidoys zhthmata, yparxei mia nomikh yphresia, h opoia blepei kai ejetazei toys typikoys kai toys oysiastikoys logoys. Kai aperrice thn protash kai tis alles protaseis, ektos apo aytes poy eginan xqes, gia sygkekrimenoys logoys. Ara, oi apofaseis aytes apantoyn apo mones toys to erwthma poy qesate, afoy perilambanetai kai to plhres aitiologiko twn apofasewn aytwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na gyrisoyme ligo sthn oikonomia k. Ekproswpe. Eipate nwritera oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh apofasizei gia thn oikonomia. Wstoso, gia ta spread, as poyme, kai gia ton daneismo, apofasizoyn oi dieqneis agores. Kai oi dieqneis agores perimenoyn mhnyma twra kai apo oti fainetai den exoyn peistei apo ton Proypologismo, para ta osa lete. Pote qa prepei na steilete ena mhnyma me ayto ton dialogo poy jekinate; Qa prepei na teleiwsei o dialogos, mesa ston Dekembrio gia paradeigma; Exei xroniko orizonta gia na mporesete na steilete ena mhnyma, wste na petyxete kalytera pragmata stis dieqneis agores apo Genarh;

PETALWTHS: To qema poy qetete me ta spread, einai qema ajiopistias ths kybernhshs. Kai o daneismos exei amesa sxesh me thn ajiopistia ths kaqe xwras. Ekei akribws, ayto to terastio elleimma ajiopistias, prospaqoyme na symplhrwsoyme, prospaqoyme na anaplhrwsoyme kai pisteyoyme oti to kanoyme me ton kalytero dynato, stis shmerines synqhkes, tropo. Kai mesa apo ayton ton Proypologismo, alla kai mesa apo thn prooptikh poy dinoyme gia to pws blepoyme emeis kai pws qa diaxeiristoyme thn oikonomia ths xwras.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Dhladh, na ypoqesw oti h ajiopistia einai qema dialogoy h metrwn, mporeite na moy peite;

PETALWTHS: H ajiopistia xtizetai, hmera me thn hmera. Kai bebaia ta metra poy lambanontai einai o telikos kriths ths ajiopistias mias kybernhshs. Gia na lhfqoyn, omws, metra, apaiteitai dialogos, etsi opws ton qetoyme emeis.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Proteinete eqniko koinwniko dialogo gia na anoijete ola ta qemata kai na proxwreite se diarqrwtikes allages. Poia einai ta metwpa poy qa anoijei h kybernhsh k. Ekproswpe;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti o dialogos aytos exei na kanei me ola ta meizona zhthmata ths xwras, etsi opws qa prosdioristoyn mesa apo ayton.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Mporeite na mas dwsete ena paradeigma; To Asfalistiko, h Paideia, h Ygeia;

PETALWTHS: Fysika kai ayta einai mesa sta meizona zhthmata. Nomizw oti einai akairo, shmera, na prosdiorisw egw to metro toy dialogoy kai se poia zhthmata qa kinhqei.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qa moy dwsete ena paradeigma; Qa nomimopoihsete ta idiwtika kolegia sto xwro ths Paideias, as poyme;

PETALWTHS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh, opws gnwrizete, ``pagwse'' thn adeiodothsh aytwn twn kolegiwn, poy liges hmeres prin tis ekloges ypegrace h prohgoymenh kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Hdh, to qema brisketai se nomikh krish kai perimenoyme syntoma apofash ep` aytoy.

SIDERHS: Akoysa thn k. Jenogiannakopoyloy na leei oti qa yparjei kaqolikh katarghsh toy kapnismatos. Bebaia, elpizw na mhn mas apagoreysete na kapnizoyme kai sta spitia mas. Alla, epeidh tiqetai qema anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn kai twn kapnistwn kai epeidh ayto to pragma einai mia ``amerikania'' poy jekinhse apo tis apaithseis twn asfalistikwn etaireiwn ths Amerikhs kai ejaplwqhke se olo ton planhth, giati den dikaioyntai kai oi kapnistes na exoyn toys xwroys toys; Kai giati na mhn yparxoyn katasthmata sta opoia oi kapnistes qa mporoyn na phgainoyn na kapnizoyn, oso kai an einai epibaryntiko gia thn ygeia toys, diko toys qema -kai qa sas ejhghsw giati to lew- kai na yparxoyn katasthmata opoy oi akapnoi kai oi aposteirwmenoi qa phgainoyn na pernoyn tis wres toys; Kai to lew ayto, giati exoyme pikran peira se olo ton planhth, se anatolika kai dytika mplogks, apo to kratos ``pateroylh'' poy qelei na kaqorizei kai thn paramikrh leptomereia ths zwhs twn anqrwpwn. Kai ayto to metro ths kaqolikhs apagoreyshs einai ena tetoio.

PETALWTHS: To qema toy kapnismatos einai qema ygeias. Prosdiorizetai apo ta metra poy lambanei kaqe fora h kybernhsh. Gia na qesw ena diaforetiko stoixeio apo thn poly sobaropoihsh ths syzhthshs edw, qa eishghqw na anoijei dhmosia diaboyleysh kai gi` ayto to zhthma, etsi wste kaqenas na ekfrastei mesa apo to gnwsto tropo.

SIDERHS: Den einai qema. Ta anqrwpina dikaiwmata den ypagontai se pleiochfies. Dikaioyntai kapoioi na kapnizoyn. Kai sas eipa oti to problhma einai to kratos ``pateroylhs'' poy qelei na kaqorizei th zwh twn anqrwpwn.

PETALWTHS: Yparxoyn diafores qewrhseis kai oles lambanontai ypoch.

SIDERHS: Qewreite meiwmenhs wrimothtas kai antilhptikothtas aytoys poy kapnizoyn;

PETALWTHS: Oxi, bebaia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Gia na katalaboyme twra thn politikh ths kybernhshs, giati afhse kati h k. Jenogiannakopoyloy na diafanei: Qa proxwrhsei telika h kybernhsh, epiteloys, sthn kaqolikh apagoreysh toy kapnismatos...

PETALWTHS: H dikh sas, einai h antiqeth qewrhsh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: ... wste na yparxoyn kanones, gia na mhn kanei o kaqenas o,ti qelei sto proswpo toy alloy;

PETALWTHS: Otan yparjei apofash toy Ypoyrgeioy Ygeias, qa anakoinwqei kai me ton deonta tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Egw mporw, k. Ekproswpe, gia na sas bohqhsw sthn anoixth diaboyleysh, na petaw nero opoy qelw, edw mesa gia paradeigma; Na katabrejw toys pantes;

PETALWTHS: Den gnwrizw. Na ginei enas dialogos edw, ayth th stigmh, na doyme;

ANTYPAS: Na epanelqw sthn enhmerwsh, moy epitrepete;

PETALWTHS: Nai, bebaiws. Alla kai ayth einai enhmerwsh.

ANTYPAS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti gia ta idiwtika kolegia perimenete thn eishghsh twn nomikwn yphresiwn. Mia paromoia apanthsh dwsate kai gia to qema toy k. Bgenopoyloy.

PETALWTHS: Oxi. Den einai eishghsh nomikwn yphresiwn. Yparxei mia dikastikh krish, en ejelijei kai anamenetai syntoma na ekdoqei apofash.

ANTYPAS: Mhpws mporeite na mas enhmerwsete, poia einai h politikh qesh ths kybernhshs kai gia to ena kai gia to allo; Dhladh, poia einai h politikh ths kybernhshs kai oxi h politikh toy Dikhgorikoy Syllogoy gia to qema twn agonwn grammwn kai gia to qema twn idiwtikwn kolegiwn;

PETALWTHS: Gia tis agones grammes: Den milame gia mia nomikh qewrhsh kai gia mia nomikh apoch. Yparxei nomikh yphresia, kaqe fora, se kaqe diagwnismo, h opoia eishgeitai to an qa ginei dekth mia prosfora, mia protash h oxi, toylaxiston oson afora sta typika zhthmata. Ara, den milame gia apoch, milame gia mia eishghsh, ypoxrewtikh apo to nomo, thn opoia eishghqhke h nomikh yphresia kai egine dekth, giati akribws den yphrxan stis protaseis poy aporrifqhkan ekeines oi prodiagrafes poy htan symfwnes me to nomo. Gia ta kolegia: Hdh, h kybernhsh exei ekfrasei th qesh ths. Hdh h kybernhsh, apo tis prwtes hmeres diakybernhshs, exei deijei tis proqeseis ths, otan ``pagwse'' aytes tis adeies twn kolegiwn. Kai epanalambanw oti poly syntoma qa yparxei kai mia apofash dikasthrioy, ws pros ayto.

ANTYPAS: Dhladh, na eikasoyme, an exw katalabei apo th fraseologia sas, oti h kybernhsh einai kata ths adeiodothshs twn kolegiwn;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh, hdh, exei prajei ws pros ayto to zhthma.

ANTYPAS: To pagwma den leei kati. Nai h oxi. Ta adeiodotoyme h oxi;

PETALWTHS: Den leei se esas. Egw emmenw se ayto poy lew.

POLYMEROS: To prwi, phgainontas na parw efhmerida, me rwthse o cilikatzhs moy kai moy eipe na sas metabibasw to ejhs, sxetika me thn episkech toy klimakioy ths Koinwnikhs Statistikhs Yphresias ths Eurostat, poy hrqe na elegjei ta dhmosionomika ths xwras mas: Xreiazetai xwrofylakes h Ellada gia na mporesei na kanei kati swsta;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai mia poly genikh koybenta kai mia poly genikh qewrhsh twn pragmatwn. Eimaste sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Exoyme sygkekrimenes desmeyseis kai malista edw ejelissetai kai mia episkech, h opoia einai meqodologikh. Einai mia episkech h opoia ginetai kata xronika diasthmata. Nomizw oti h teleytaia episkech htan to fqinopwro poy mas perase. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, einai mia episkech thn opoia epiqymei kai h ellhnikh kybernhsh, oxi gia na yparjoyn xwrofylakes, alla epeidh qa prepei, epiteloys  kai hdh h kybernhsh exei kanei ta deonta bhmata - na ginei antikeimenikh h katagrafh twn statistikwn stoixeiwn. Kai ayto, exei amesh sxesh kai me to daneismo  gia ton opoio egine erwthsh apo synadelfo sas- exei sxesh kai me thn oikonomikh poreia ths xwras kai thn ajiopistia ths.

TOYMASHS: O filokybernhtikos thleoptikos staqmos twn Skopiwn ``Sitel'', poy anhkei ston arxhgo toy Sosialistikoy Kommatos poy symmetexei ston kybernhtiko synaspismo, xarakthrise proxqes tis qeseis ths kybernhshs Papandreoy ``megalomaneis ajiwseis'' kai o Prwqypoyrgos ths PGDM Nikola Gkroyefski xarakthrise ``majimalistikes'' tis ellhnikes qeseis kai ejwpragmatikes, enw synypegrace kai o idios prosfygh politwn ths PGDM pros to Symboylio Anqrwpinwn Dikaiwmatwn kata ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai toy kratoys, poy eixe dhmeysei thn patrogonikh toy perioysia sth Flwrina gia anteqnikh drash. Meta apo ola ayta ta deigmata kalhs h kakhs qelhshs, o baqmos aisiodojias ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs gia epilysh toy problhmatos, ejakoloyqei na brisketai sta idia ychla epipeda;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, ws xwra, exoyme mia sygkekrimenh meqodologia, edw kai xronia. Akoloyqoyme mia sygkekrimenh taktikh diapragmateysewn. Kai yparxei kai mia eqnikh kokkinh grammh, apo thn opoia den ypoxwroyme kai den ypanaxwroyme me tipota, anejarthta apo to poies apoceis ekfrazontai apo th geitona xwra kai apo opoiondhpote allon.

MIXAHL: Thn Pempth, einai programmatismenh na ginei mia ektakth synanthsh twn Eyrwpaiwn hgetwn gia na egkaqidrysoyn th qhteia ths neas Epitrophs. Mexri stigmhs, den jeroyme poios qa einai o Ellhnas Epitropos gia thn epomenh pentaetia. H kybernhsh exei katalhjei kai an nai, pote qa to plhroforhqoyme; Kata th synanthsh toy k. Papandreoy ekei h qa mas to anakoinwsete nwritera;

PETALWTHS: Otan katalhjei se apofash h kybernhsh, qa to plhroforhqeite.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, se mia apo tis teleytaies dhmosies parembaseis se megalhs kykloforias efhmerida, h k. Mpakogiannh eniwse thn anagkh na jekaqarisei oti den einai to systhma PASOK poy qa eklejei hgesia sth Nea Dhmokratia. Jerw oti eiste Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos, alla yparxei kapoio systhma sto eswteriko toy kommatos sas poy protima ton k. Samara;

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayto, nomizw oti qa eprepe na rwthsete thn idia thn k. Mpakogiannh. Pantws, to na epanaferetai aytos o oros ``systhma PASOK'' meta apo arketa xronia, deixnei oti yparxei mia amhxania se aytoys poy ton xrhsimopoioyn.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Gia thn proqesh twn diarqrwtikwn allagwn, poy eipame prohgoymenws, qa epidiwjete kai th synainesh twn koryfaiwn syndikalistikwn organwsewn ths GSEE kai ths ADEDY;

PETALWTHS: H prosklhsh apeyqynetai stoys polites, toys foreis kai ta kommata.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, meta tis xqesines apokalyceis ths efhmeridas ``PRWTO QEMA'', symfwna me tis opoies h k. Sioyth htan kanonika dikhgoros toy k. Xristoforakoy, kati poy h idia arnoyntan sthn pro hmerwn apanthsh-dhlwsh ths, problhmatizei thn kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh exei apanthsei sto sygkekrimeno zhthma, se erwthsh dikh sas, thn prohgoymenh ebdomada.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, epeidh xqes yphrjan kainoyrgia stoixeia, poy apodeiknyoyn th stenh sxesh ths k. Sioyth, ths symboyloy toy Prwqypoyrgoy, me ton k. Xristoforako.

PETALWTHS: Emmenoyme sthn apanthsh poy exoyme dwsei.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Dhladh, h kybernhsh exei akoma apolyth empistosynh sth symboylo toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h opoia htan dikhgoros toy k. Xristoforakoy;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti emmenoyme sthn idia apanthsh. Kai ayth einai h apanthsh moy.

Sas eyxaristw.

" H enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn kai twn antapokritwn jenoy Typoy apo ton Kybernhtiko Ekproswpo Giwrgo Petalwth den qa pragmatopoihqei ayrio, Trith 17 Noembrioy, logw toy eortasmoy ths epeteioy toy Polytexneioy.

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