Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-11-19

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 19 Noembrioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 236047749

Ekdosh 1

brf1911

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 19 Noembrioy 2009

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalhmera sas.

Xqes, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, opws gnwrizete, syzhthqhke to sxedio toy Proypologismoy, poy katatiqetai thn Paraskeyh sth Boylh, kai shmantika nomoqethmata, opws einai to sxedio nomoy gia th reystothta sthn agora, gia thn anejarthtopoihsh ths Statistikhs Yphresias kai o nomos gia ta kamena ths Attikhs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SWKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, giati o Prwqypoyrgos me thn politikh, thn opoia kaqe hmera jediplwnei, blepoyme na dikaiwnei olo kai pio poly ton proeklogiko Kwsta Karamanlh; Giati to lew ayto; O prwhn Prwqypoyrgos phge se ekloges, ejaggellontas sklhra metra kai ena apo ayta, h prometwpida htan to ``pagwma'' misqwn kai syntajewn. O k. Papandreoy eipe oti to PASOK qa proxwrhsei se ayjhseis panw apo ton plhqwrismo kai ayto to xrhsimopoihse ws ena epixeirhma gia na deijei th diaforetikh kateyqynsh ths politikhs toy PASOK apo ths Neas Dhmokratias. Shmera, kanei to idio. Kai oxi monon ayto: ``Pagwnei'' tis proslhceis, pairnei metra ta opoia den ta eixe kan ejaggeilei. Den einai ayto mia dikaiwsh ths prohgoymenhs kybernhshs;

PETALWTHS: H dikh mas politikh, h politikh ths kybernhshs toy PASOK, den exei kamia sxesh me thn politikh ths kybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias. Emeis, eimaste aytoi oi opoioi throyme tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis. Prwta ap` ola, den milame gia ``pagwma'' twn misqwn. Bazoyme ena orio gia toys misqoys panw apo 2.000 eyrw, opoy qa prepei na yparxei mia anagkastikh qysia, as moy epitrapei h ekfrash, gia toys misqoys oi opoioi einai pio pronomiakoi apo kapoioys alloys, apo th megalh pleiochfia twn misqwn toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy. Emeis, den ``pagwnoyme'' aplws toys misqoys kai tis proslhceis. Sygxronws, dinoyme mia enesh reystothtas sthn agora. Dhmioyrgoyme ekeines tis synqhkes anaptyjhs poy qa epitrecoyn sthn agora na kinhqei, na dioxeteyqei xrhma sthn agora, etsi wste na yparjoyn, pera apo forologika esoda gia to kratos, na mporoyn na ylopoihqoyn ekeines oi politikes, gia tis opoies exei desmeyqei proeklogika to PASOK kai tis opoies ylopoiei mexri shmera. Kai kyriws, h oikonomikh mas politikh exei entono anaptyjiako xarakthra. Diorqwnoyme tis adikies toy parelqontos. Hdh, to prwto nomoqethma, to opoio kataqesame, htan gia thn enisxysh twn xamhlwn eisodhmatwn kai twn eypaqwn omadwn, me to epidoma allhleggyhs, to opoio hdh mexri teloys toy etoys, se prwth dosh qa katablhqei kai hdh exei dieyrynqei kai o ariqmos twn dikaioyxwn. Exoyme mia teleiws diaforetikh politikh apo th Nea Dhmokratia, thn opoia efarmozoyme kiolas. Kai otan milame gia ``pagwma'', edw qa prepei na dieykrinistei gia toys misqoys panw apo 2.000 eyrw, qa prepei na mhn jexna kaneis oti yparxei kai h legomenh ``wrimansh'', poy einai peripoy 2% kaqe xrono ayjhsh stoys misqoys.

TOYMASHS: Synadei h oxi me to pneyma ths koina apodekths dhmokratikhs antilhchs kai symperiforas kai ths eleyqerofwnias h mhnysh poy ypebale o Antiproedros ths kybernhshs h poy apeilei na ypobalei se efhmerida, poy xarakthrise ton proypologismo ths Antiproedrias polydapano;

PETALWTHS: Den exw ypoch moy na exei ypoblhqei kapoia tetoia mhnysh.

TOYMASHS: Eipa oti apeilhqhke h grafetai...

PETALWTHS: Den exw ypoch moy kati tetoio. Ean ennoeite tis dapanes toy grafeioy toy Antiproedroy ths kybernhshs, aytes problepontai apo to Proedriko Diatagma 63/2005 gia th systash politikoy grafeioy Antiproedroy kai fysika oi dapanes, oi opoies hrqan sth dhmosiothta oti einai yperogkes, se sxesh me toys misqoys twn symboylwn, den antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta. Yparxei sygkekrimenos tropos kai ycos misqoy se aytoys toys symboyloys kai ayto to misqo qa pairnoyn.

PITTARAS: Epeidh eipate nwritera kai ston k. Swko pws den yparxei anakoloyqia proeklogikwn yposxesewn kai meteklogikwn prajewn, telika ola osa elege o k. Papandreoy proeklogika oti ta lefta yparxoyn, apla den diaxeirizontan swsta apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, poy brisketai h alhqeia; Giati, twra oi prajeis sas deixnoyn oti mallon ta lefta den yparxoyn, to tameio einai meion, gi` ayto kai proxwrate se ayta ta metra.

PETALWTHS: Thn oikonomikh katastash, th gnwrizoyme kai th biwnoyme oloi. Einai mia pragmatika poly dyskolh oikonomikh katastash. Sta plaisia ayths ths pragmatikothtas, emeis ylopoioyme tis desmeyseis mas kai mesa apo to sxedio Proypologismoy poy qa katateqei, ayrio Paraskeyh kai mesa apo to forologiko nomosxedio, toy opoioy h diaboyleysh qa arxisei sto amesws epomeno xroniko diasthma, prokeimenoy stis arxes toy neoy etoys na exoyme ena neo forologiko nomosxedio, alla kai me to Programma Staqerothtas poy qa kataqesoyme stis arxes toy epomenoy xronoy, oi prosanatolismoi mas einai safeis: Anaptyjh ths oikonomias me ena diaforetiko montelo, anasa stis asqenesteres tajeis. Kai me aytes tis desmeyseis, tis opoies ylopoioyme apo thn prwth stigmh ths diakybernhshs, poreyomaste. Akomh kai se ayto ton Proypologismo, o opoios exei xarakthristei ws Proypologismos isorropias metajy twn problhmatwn poy yparxoyn, ws Proypologismos ektaktoy anagkhs kai safws metabatikos, se mia dyskolh oikonomikh katastash, oi stoxeyseis kai oi prosanatolismoi ayths ths kybernhshs einai jekaqaroi kai einai analogoi me osa eixame desmeyqei prin apo tis ekloges.

KALOSTYPH: Hqela na epanelqw se ena qema, epeidh h anaptyjh bebaiws einai sthn proteraiothta ths kybernhshs kai prepei, kai sthn toyristikh anaptyjh kai oxi mono, kai thn prasinh anaptyjh. Hqela na rwthsw, anejarthtws an h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh qetei h oxi prodiagrafes gia to ti poiothtas aeroskafh petoyn sta nhsia mas, h ellhnikh kybernhsh, h Ellada, den qa prepei na qetei aytes tis prodiagrafes ths poiothtas; Ena ayto kai se sxesh me ayto, o neos diagwnismos poy qa ginei thn anoijh, gia tis agones grammes fysika milw  gia emena entos eisagwgikwn h lejh ``agones''- qa zhta jana prosfores gia mia-mia grammh; Ayto einai oikonomika, koinwnika, hqika, eylogo na symbainei;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei ena sygkekrimeno nomiko plaisio, to opoio kaqorizetai, se sxesh me toys diagwnismoys gia tis agones grammes, apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Einai o Kanonismos 1008 kai me bash ayto ton Kanonismo, systhqhke prin apo tis ekloges, epi kybernhsews Neas Dhmokratias, epitroph diagwnismoy apo thn Yphresia Politikhs Aeroporias. Ayth h epitroph diagwnismoy einai poy ekrine kai tis prosfores kai apefanqh gia tis sygkekrimenes agones grammes. Ayta orizei o Kanonismos, se ayto to nomiko plaisio mporoyme kai prepei na kinhqoyme kai akoloyqeitai h nomimothta. Apo ekei kai pera, se sxesh me to sygkekrimeno zhthma, o,ti exei kataggelqei, emeis to steilame ws kybernhsh ston Geniko Epiqewrhth Dhmosias Dioikhshs, prokeimenoy na apofanqei gia to an exoyn ginei paratypies apo thn epitroph diagwnismoy kai an yparxei kai parabash kaqhkontos sthn prokeimenh periptwsh. Alla, den mporoyme na mhn kinhqoyme sta plaisia ths nomimothtas kai me to sygkekrimeno nomiko plaisio.

KALOSTYPH: Sygnwmh, alla gia to qema twn prodiagrafwn poiothtas, qa janaginei diagwnismos kapoia stigmh. Ekei, ayto qa janateqei sto trapezi; Dhladh, qa prepei h den qa prepei na yparxoyn prodiagrafes poiothtas, anejarthtws toy ti leei o Kanonismos h h odhgia h o,ti einai ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

PETALWTHS: Protoy symmetexei kapoios se ena diagwnismo tetoioy eidoys, exei dikaiwma, prin omws apo to diagwnismo, na strafei me enstash kata twn orwn toy diagwnismoy. Tetoia enstash den yphrxe, synepws o diagwnismos proxwrhse me bash tis nomimes kai nomikes prodiagrafes. Oi idies nomimes kai nomikes prodiagrafes qa einai se isxy kai se epomenoys diagwnismoys, ektos an prosfygei kapoios diagwnizomenos kai apofanqei h armodia epitroph oti oi oroi toy diagwnismoy den einai nomimoi.

SIDERHS: Se sxesh me ton TEIRESIA kai me tis allages poy ginontai kai eidika me th ryqmish oti qa mporei, afotoy chfistei, se ena trimhno na paei kapoios na plhrwsei kai na bgei apo th ``mayrh lista'', den einai ayth h ryqmish h xara toy kaqe mpatajh;

PETALWTHS: Emeis prospaqoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme synqhkes anaptyjhs sthn agora. Prospaqoyme na proaspisoyme to dhmosio symferon mesa apo thn anaqermansh ths agoras kai bebaia, synama, na proaspisoyme kai thn asfaleia twn synallagwn. Me ayth th ryqmish poy ferame, etsi wste na yparxei mia eynoikh ryqmish se sxesh me ton TEIRESIA, ``jepagwnoyme'' sto meros opoy epidiwkoyme thn agora, prokeimenoy na kinhqoyn oi xiliades epixeirhseis, oi opoies mplokarontai kai oi opoies exoyn joflhsei h qa klhqoyn na ejoflhsoyn tis ypoxrewseis toys.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, proeklogika, alla kai stis programmatikes dhlwseis, o k. Papandreoy, alla kai o armodios Ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn, eixate pei oti qa forologhsete thn emporikh drasthriothta twn akinhtwn ths Ekklhsias. Yparxei antidrash apo thn Ekklhsia. Xqes, maqame oti yparxei epishs dysareskeia apo thn pleyra ths Ekklhsias kai gia to metro toy periorismoy ths spatalhs me thn kinhsh kratikwn aytokinhtwn. Qa epimeinete stis qeseis sas aytes h qa anoijete dialogo apo mhdenikh bash me thn Ierarxia;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei ekfrasmenh apoch ths kybernhshs panw se ayta ta zhthmata. Apo ekei kai pera o dialogos, bebaia, qa einai anoiktos, opws emeis epidiwkoyme enan eyrytato dialogo me oloys toys foreis, me oloys toys polites, gia ola ta zhthmata kai to apodeiknyoyme kai mesa apo th diadikasia ths dhmosias diaboyleyshs, prokeimenoy na proaspizetai to dhmosio symferon me ton pio anoixto tropo kai diadikasia. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, h kybernhsh exei dwsei to plaisio twn apocewn ths kai ekei qa epimeinei.

KALARYTHS: Epitrecte moy na epanelqw sto qema ths oikonomias, poy rwthsan oi synadelfoi. Proeklogika eixate kataggeilei thn kybernhsh gia thn katastash sthn opoia eixe perielqei h ellhnikh oikonomia. Ara, gnwrizate thn katastash; Giati twra yparxei h entypwsh -o Prwqypoyrgos exei epikalestei treis-tesseris fores th dramatikh katastash ths oikonomias- oti yparxei ayth h epiklhsh gia na dikaiologhqoyn ta forologika metra, ta opoia proeklogika den ta eixate ejaggeilei. Gnwrizate apo prin thn katastash ths oikonomias h oxi;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na dhlwsw gia allh mia fora oti eimaste synepestatoi me tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis. Oi prosanatolismoi kai oi stoxoi yphrxan, yparxoyn kai me bash tis ajies mas kai thn ideologia mas peri koinwnikhs Dikaiosynhs kai isothtas, qa kinhqoyme kai mesa apo thn poly dyskolh oikonomikh periodo poy zoyme. Apo ekei kai pera, gnwrizame oti h katastash, h pragmatikothta den htan etsi opws apotypwnotan apo th Nea Dhmokratia, me tis gnwstes alxhmeies kai ths Statistikhs Yphresias. Den mporoysame, omws, na fantastoyme to megeqos toy dhmosionomikoy ektroxiasmoy. Ayto, omws, epoydeni apotelei profash kai dikaiologia gia thn oikonomikh politikh thn opoia xarassoyme, me bash toys ajones poy exoyme ejaggeilei kai toys opoioys epikaloymaste kai shmera.

KAMPOYRAKHS: Paramenw sthn oikonomia k. Ekproswpe. Na rwthsw prwta, ean to gegonos oti ta stegastika daneia den symperilambanontai stis ryqmiseis toy nomosxedioy toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias, htan stis proeklogikes desmeyseis ths kybernhshs. Kai deyteron, qa hqela na rwthsw, ti apantate se mia kritikh poy ginetai apo thn allh kateyqynsh, dhladh oti ta pragmata sthn oikonomia einai ontws etsi opws ta perigrafete, omws ayto xreiazetai polles diarqrwtikes allages poy den eidame sto sxedio toy Proypologismoy, toylaxiston ayths ths xronias.

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, na jekaqarisw oti to nomosxedio poy syzhthqhke xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio exei sygkekrimenes stoxeyseis gia thn anaqermansh ths agoras. Ara, ta alla zhthmata ta opoia den perilambanontai se ayto to nomosxedio, menoyn akomh anoixta kai einai pros syzhthsh.

Mporeite na epanalabete to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas;

KAMPOYRAKHS: An to gegonos oti den symperilambanontai ta stegastika daneia mesa stis ryqmiseis...

PETALWTHS: Oxi, h erwthsh sas, an proxwroyn oi diarqrwtikes allages;

KAMPOYRAKHS: Kai ayto, nai. Alla kai gia ta stegastika daneia qa hqela na moy apanthsete.

PETALWTHS: Oson afora sta stegastika daneia, sas apanthsa. To sygkekrimeno nomosxedio htan gia thn enisxysh ths reystothtas ths agoras kai gia thn anaqermansh ths. Synepws, o,ti den symperilambanetai se ayto to nomosxedio, mporei na yparjei ryqmish se epomeno nomosxedio, efoson kriqei oti prepei na yparxei ryqmish. Emeis, tis diarqrwtikes allages ths oikonomias, eimaste apofasismenoi na tis jekinhsoyme. Hdh, ta prwta deigmata ta exoyme dwsei, alla kaneis den mporei na dianohqei oti mesa se 40 hmeres diakybernhshs, pragmatika qa mporoysan na epiteyxqoyn aytes oi megales diarqrwtikes allages, oi opoies pragmatika xreiazontai se epipedo politikhs, alla kai se epipedo oikonomias.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Oi tomes kai oi megales anatropes se Asfalistiko, Paideia, Ygeia, ergasiakes sxeseis, poy ejhggeile xqes o Prwqypoyrgos kata th diarkeia ths eishghshs toy sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, qa synodeyqoyn kai apo nomosxedia mesa sto 2010;

PETALWTHS: Qa yparxei nomoqetikh prwtoboylia gia oloys aytoys toys tomeis. Kai gia toys pente tomeis, toys opoioys ejhggeile o Prwqypoyrgos k. Papandreoy, jekinwntas apo to kratos, giati pisteyoyme oti ena teleiws diaforetiko kratos, ena teleiws diaforetiko montelo askhshs kratikhs politikhs, einai aparaithto gia na mporesei na proxwrhsei epiteloys h Ellada mprosta kai na afhsoyme tis paqogeneies toy parelqontos. Safws kai qa yparxei nomoqetikh prwtoboylia kai gia oloys toys tomeis. Hdh, gia thn anaptyjh, xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio syzhthqhkan dyo zhthmata anaptyjiakhs politikhs. To idio qa ginei kai me thn Paideia, thn koinwnikh Pronoia. Kai o teleytaios tomeas, ths dieqnoys paroysias ths xwras mas sto ejwteriko. Nomizw oti apodeiknyetai apo thn prwth stigmh oti hdh proxwrame se ayto to zhthma me thn enisxysh ths qeshs ths Elladas sto ejwteriko kai me thn enisxysh ths dieqnoys paroysias mas.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Se ena allo qema. Yparxei kapoio problhma ths sxeshs toy YPEJ me ton Geniko Projeno sthn Kwnstantinoypolh; Giati diabazoyme kapoia dhmosieymata oti epikeitai anaklhsh ths qeshs toy.

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei zhthma. Einai dhmosieymata kai dhmosieymata paramenoyn.

TOYMASHS: Se sxesh me to YPEJ, pali: Otan h kybernhsh, dia stomatos toy Anaplhrwth Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn, leei xqes pws ola einai sto trapezi twn diapragmateysewn sxetika me to ellhnoskopiano, se ayta ta ``ola'' symperilambanontai ola sxetika me to onoma h kai ta ypoloipa ola; Dhladh, oi katasxeqeises perioysies apo to ellhniko kratos, h epistrofh twn politikwn prosfygwn, h anagnwrish ths yparjhs slabomakedonikhs glwssas, h anagrafh toy epwnymioy sto slabomakedoniko idiwma sta pistopoihtika gennhshs toys;

PETALWTHS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh kai ws kybernhsh, alla kai ws antipoliteysh exei ekfrastei sygkekrimena, gia to sygkekrimeno zhthma. Yparxei to zhthma ths onomasias twn Skopiwn me mia sygkekrimenh eqnikh kokkinh grammh, poy prwtoi emeis, to PASOK, xarajame.

TOYMASHS: Ma, me sygxwreite, den einai mono ayto to qema. Ayto einai to kyrio. Apo ekei kai pera, yparxoyn ola ta alla qemata, opws jeroyme. Einai oi perioysies tis opoies diekdikoyn aytoi kai exoyn paei kai sto Symboylio ths Eyrwphs, einai h epistrofh twn politikwn prosfygwn, einai h anagnwrish ths glwssas poy einai sobaro kai anakateyetai kai h Boylgaria se ayto.

PETALWTHS: Gia emas, to kyrio problhma einai h onomasia twn Skopiwn.

SIDERHS: Oi dhlwseis toy k. Mpeglith gia thn antipyraylikh aspida, den htan apla mia epanekdosh ths proqymhs dhlwshs ths k. Mpakogiannh gia to idio qema, ws Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn; Den einai apla ena ``retoysarisma'' kai proqymo, sthn amerikanikh diaqesh na anaptyjei thn antipyraylikh aspida;

PETALWTHS: Emeis askoyme mia sygkekrimenh ejwterikh politikh me bash to dhmosio symferon. Ayth thn ejwterikh politikh ejefrase kai o k. Mpegliths kai menoyme ekei.

SIDERHS: Ayth ekfrasthke me proqymia sth diaqesh twn Amerikanwn na anaptyjoyn ayth thn aspida;

PETALWTHS: Gia emas, to dhmosio symferon einai to eqniko symferon gia ta zhthmata ths amynas kai ths ejwterikhs politikhs. Kai me monadiko gnwmona ayto to dhmosio eqniko symferon proxwrame.

KALOSTYPH: Se dyo alla qema, sxetika me to nomosxedio gia ta dash kai ena allo qema poy epishs afora to periballon sthn polh, omws. Isws den eiste enhmeros, alla einai ena qema poy krata para polles dekaeties. Kapoioi synetairismoi yparxoyn, oi opoioi leitoyrgoyn kai pairnoyn apo kosmo xrhmata ws syndromes, prokeimenoy kapote na dwsoyn kapoio kommati ghs se kapoia ejoxikh perioxh, eite dasikh, eite paraliakh, se kapoioys oi opoioi to dikaioyntai, kaqws plhrwnoyn ola ayta ta xronia. Einai kati ths Aeroporias, kati alloi synetairismoi, oi opoioi den gnwrizw akribws, alla moy exei kataggelqei. Kai anarwtiemai, an se ayto to nomosxedio h se allo nomosxedio exei ejetastei ayth h periptwsh. An dhladh yparxei edw paranomh drash h ti symbainei me ayth thn istoria twn synetairismwn poy exoyn melh, ta opoia kanoyn  as poyme- genikes syneleyseis kata kairoys kai exoyn dikhgoroys, oi opoioi diekdikoyn mesw toy Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos h den jerw poioy Ypoyrgeioy, kapoia kommatia ghs ta opoia qa dwsoyn stoys dikaioyxoys. Ena erwthma einai ayto. Den perimenw, isws, na moy apanthsete shmera, alla qa hqela...

PETALWTHS: Se ayto to nomosxedio, pantws, poy syzhthqhke xqes kai to opoio etyxe mias eyreias diaboyleyshs, kyrio melhma mas einai h prostasia toy dasoys me o,ti problepetai analytika se ayto to nomosxedio. Ean yparxoyn peraiterw zhthmata einai qema kai toy Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos kai toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias, etsi opws moy ta lete. Giati h dhmosia perioysia einai qema toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias, poy mporei na teqei.

KALOSTYPH: Pantws, sas qetw ayto to qema twn synetairismwn, giati para polles xiliades anqrwpoi, shmera polloi apo aytoys einai poly hlikiwmenoi, epi dekaeties mporw na sas pw, dinoyn syndromes se aytoys toys synetairismoys gia na paroyn kapote, gia paradeigma ena stremma...

SIDERHS: Ena kommati dasoys!

KALOSTYPH: ... h dasoys.

PETALWTHS: Kommati dasoys, apo edw kai pera, den prokeitai na paroyn, pantws. Toylaxiston ayto, to diasfalizoyme me to nomosxedio poy syzhthsame xqes.

KALOSTYPH: Ara, loipon, kati prepei na ginei me aytoys toys anqrwpoys poy exoyn plhrwsei kapoia lefta kai me aytoys toys synetairismoys, poy ejakoloyqoyn na leitoyrgoyn ypoqetw. Kai to allo zhthma einai, se o,ti afora thn politikh toy aytokinhtoy. Einai se ekkremothta to ti qa symbei apo kapoia stigmh kai meta, se o,ti afora to kentro ths Aqhnas, alla yparxei kai ena zhthma: Katebainontas thn Khfisias kai oxi sto kentro, prin apo ton OTE, kykloforoyn aytokinhta ta opoia ekpempoyn ena nefos apisteyto kai aporw kata poso qa prepei o poliths poy brisketai apo pisw na kataggeilei ayton ton odhgo h ean qa yparjei kapoia ``prasinh astynomia'' gi` aytoy toy typoy toys anaideis odhgoys, oi opoioi rypainoyn to periballon. Exw ayth th stigmh egw  an qelete na sas dwsw- kai ariqmo aytokinhtoy. To idio kai gia dikykla, ta opoia exoyn ejairetika rypogono, hxhtika, symperifora stoys dromoys. Problepetai kati gi` ayto, perimenoyme kati ameso gi` aytes tis...

PETALWTHS: Ayta einai zhthmata, ta opoia mporei na fainontai epoysiwdh gia thn kaqhmerinh politikh eidhseografia kai pragmatikothta, einai omws oysiwdh gia thn poiothta ths zwhs mas. Apo ekei kai pera, ayto poy mporw na pw ayth th stigmh, einai oti epeidh akribws yparxei stis proteraiothtes mas h prostasia toy periballontos kai to PASOK idryse, proebh sth systash jexwristoy Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos kai Energeias me shmantikes armodiothtes kai mesw ths dhmosias diaboyleyshs poy problepetai gia th nomoqethsh sygkekrimenwn nomoqethmatwn, qa mporoysan na teqoyn kai tetoioy eidoys zhthmata, prokeimenoy na yparxei merimna kai gia tetoioy eidoys leptomereies poy exoyn na kanoyn, omws, me thn poiothta ths zwhs mas. Symfwnw se ayto.

KALOSTYPH: Amesa metra;

PETALWTHS: Otan yparxoyn, qa anakoinwqoyn. Alla, nomizw oti pleon to systhma ths diaboyleyshs einai toso eyry, opoy kai o poliths mporei na ekfrastei. Na sas pw xarakthristika oti gia to nomosxedio gia ta kamena ths Attikhs eixame panw apo 1000 symmetoxes politwn, oi opoies elhfqhsan ypoch.

SWKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa anakoinwsei o k. Papandreoy, shmera, stis Bryjelles, poios qa einai o Ellhnas Epitropos; Diabazoyme dhmosieymata poy anaferoyn to onoma ths k. Damanakh ws epikratesterh. Isxyoyn;

PETALWTHS: Den mporw na mpw se onomatodosia Epitropwn. Otan qa yparjei, qa anakoinwqei epishmws.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na meinw sto nomosxedio gia ta kamena, me to opoio, an den kanw laqos, exete apofasisei thn anastolh ekdoshs twn oikodomikwn adeiwn kai ekteleshs twn oikodomikwn ergasiwn kai problepetai h idrysh mias Yphresias Katedafisewn, h opoia malista qa enhmerwnetai se mhniaia bash gia to ti neo ayqaireto ``fytrwnei'', en pash periptwsei, sthn perioxh. Hqela na sas rwthsw, ean qa exei armodiothta se palaiotera ayqaireta kai oxi ayta poy twra zhtoyn adeia ekdoshs.

PETALWTHS: H armodiothta ths sygkekrimenhs yphresias perigrafetai akribws apo to nomo. H sygkekrimenh ryqmish afora ta kamena, tis sygkekrimenes ektaseis ths Attikhs. Apo ekei kai pera, sto idio nomo yparxei kai mia genikoterh ryqmish, etsi wste otidhpote kameno yparxei se olh thn Ellada, entos mhnos, na perna sth diadikasia toy Kthmatologioy. Alla, h idrysh ayths ths Yphresias Katedafisewn Ayqairetwn einai ena prwto bhma gia na asxolhqoyme me to terastio qema twn ayqairetwn, mia xronia katastash sthn Ellada.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Ennow, sygnwmh, den qa katedafisete kapoio ayqaireto poy hdh yparxei. Qa katedafisete opoio ayqaireto ftiaxtei apo edw kai pera.

PETALWTHS: Einai sygkekrimeno to ergo ths Yphresias ayths.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Epeidh milhsate prin gia dhmosio symferon, poio dhmosio symferon yperaspizetai h entajh ths Elladas sthn antipyraylikh aspida;

PETALWTHS: Exei ginei megalh politikh koybenta gi aythn kai qa ejeidikeyqei otan qa yparjoyn oi apofaseis.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Yparxei kapoio dhmosio symferon poy yperaspizetai;

PETALWTHS: Kaqenas, to dhmosio symferon to blepei apo th dikh toy optikh gwnia. H kybernhsh, me thn apofasistikothta poy exei, dhlwnei oti to eqniko dhmosio symferon einai o gnwmonas ths, o monadikos gnwmonas ths gia thn kinhsh ths sth dieqnh, sthn ejwterikh kai thn amyntikh politikh.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Hqela na sas rwthsw an yparxei gkrinia apo ton kommatiko mhxanismo, gia to logo oti den diorizontai kapoia kommatika stelexh se qeseis Genikwn Grammatewn h se qeseis Proedrwn Organismwn ktl. Giati, xqes, anagkasthkate na dwsete mia apanthsh, milwntas sto radiofwno ths NET, kai akoyme oti kai sth syskech poy egine sto PASOK ypo ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn kai ekei akoysthkan stelexh, ta opoia gkriniajan gi ayto to logo.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh sto sygkekrimeno qema exei mia sygkekrimenh politikh, h opoia ekfrazei tis ajies ths kai thn ideologia ths. Prospaqoyme na stelexwsoyme ton kratiko mhxanismo me toys pio aristoys sympolites mas, oi opoioi exoyn sygkekrimenes prodiagrafes, dhladh oysiastika prosonta, politikh kai koinwnikh paroysia kai empeiria, etsi wste na yparxei h kalyterh stelexwsh. Apo kei kai pera, oi gkrinies poy yparxoyn, an yparxoyn gkrinies, einai qema aytwn oi opoioi tis diakinoyn. H ypeyqynh kybernhtikh politikh, nomizw, einai ayth poy dikaiwnei kai tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis kai thn ideologia toy PASOK. Pantws, gia tis gkrinies, to akoyw apo sas.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ap o,ti katalabainw, exei apofasisei o Prwqypoyrgos kai oi Ypoyrgoi na mhn ypokycoyn se ayta ta aithmata poy yparxoyn apo diafora kommatika stelexh.

PETALWTHS: Egw den exw ypoch moy gia aithmata. Alla to poia einai h apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhshs, nomizw, einai emfanhs me ton tropo kai th diadikasia stelexwshs toy kratikoy mhxanismoy.

MIXAHL: Pote qa oloklhrwqei aytos o kyklos ths stelexwshs toylaxiston se epipedo Genikwn Grammatewn;

PETALWTHS: Qa synexisw na apantaw me ton tropo poy apantw kaqe mera. H diadikasia proxwraei. H diadikasia gia mas exei poly megalh shmasia, to apotelesma epishs.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Pws krinei h kybernhsh thn prwtoboylia toy SEB na anoijei prowra to qema ths diapragmateyshs twn syllogikwn symbasewn me th GSEE;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh de mporei na exei apoch gi ayth thn energeia. H kybernhsh askei ypeyqynh politikh kai sta ergasiaka qemata, pragmatika, exoyme mia sygkekrimenh politikh ths proaspishs twn ergasiakwn dikaiwmatwn, alla kai ths kinhshs kai ths agoras kai ths dynamikhs ths.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qewreite oti einai tyxaio to gegonos oti o SEB epeleje sygkekrimenh mera poy h kybernhsh anakoinwne ayjhseis 1,5% kai pagwma misqwn panw apo 2.000 eyrw;

PETALWTHS: Opws einai antilhpto kai katanohto, egw den mporw na krinw tis energeies kai tis apofaseis toy SEB.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Xqes o k. Jynidhs, o Grammateas toy kommatos eipe oti xwris th sthrijh apo to komma, to ergo mias kybernhshs einai dyskolo. Poia einai h sthrijh poy perimenei h kybernhsh apo to komma;

PETALWTHS: Ta kommata exoyn ena sygkekrimeno rolo, eite einai sthn antipoliteysh, eite sthn kybernhsh. Mporoyn na paragoyn ideologia. Diorqwnoyn kai fernoyn, isws, th fwnh ths koinwnias pio konta stis kybernhtikes epiloges kai apofaseis kai to PASOK exei apodeijei oti einai ena anoikto, dhmokratiko komma toy opoioy h ideologia ayth th stigmh efarmozetai kai ws kybernhtikh epilogh.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Na epanelqw ligo. Exw mprosta moy ayto poy dhlwsate xqes kai moy kanei poly megalh entypwsh. Lete oti diaxwrizoyme to komma apo to kratos. Den lambanoyme ypoch tis anhsyxies oswn aplws qeloyn na boleytoyn. Yparxoyn tetoioi mesa sto PASOK;

PETALWTHS: Egw ayto poy mporw na sas bebaiwsw einai oti den yparxei diastash anamesa sto komma kai sthn kybernhsh. Einai to komma ayto akribws poy doylece. Ergasthke sklhra, anedeije tis politikes mas gia na ginei to PASOK kybernhsh shmera, kai malista me ayth thn poly megalh diafora. Einai to komma ayto poy sthrizei tis kybernhtikes epiloges se politikes ths kybernhshs.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sygnwmh, egw den sas rwthsa an yparxei diastash. Egw sas lew an mesa sto PASOK yparxoyn stelexh poy qeloyn aplws na boleytoyn;

PETALWTHS: Egw den exw ypoch moy kanena tetoio stelexos.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Nai, alla xqes to eipate eseis.

PETALWTHS: Apanthsa sth qewrhtikh periptwsh, ean yparxoyn tetoia stelexh, ti ginetai. Egw den exw ypoch moy tetoio stelexos.

POLYMEROS: Na bohqhsw ton synadelfo ki esas. Ta kommatika stelexh epikoinwnoyn me ta kybernhtika stelexh; Yparxei diaylos epikoinwnias; Miloyn sta thlefwna h einai apokommenh h grammh;

PETALWTHS: Yparxoyn dyo diaforetika sxhmata. Yparxei h kybernhsh kai yparxei kai to komma. Kai kaqena apo ayta ta sxhmata einai orismeno kai apo to Syntagma kai apo toys nomoys, ti rolo exoyn sth diamorfwsh mias politikhs.

SIDERHS: To komma kanei ola ayta poy eipate kai gi ayto toy epifylajate rolo xeirokrothth kai afisokollhth kai den krinate ikana ta kommatika stelexh na katalaboyn roloys Genikwn Grammatewn, as poyme, h Proedrwn Organismwn;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, ta stelexh toy kommatos mas, pragmatika, ta anadeiknyoyme. Dinoyme poly megalh shmasia kai stis apoceis toys kai stis protaseis toys kai epoydeni toys epifylassoyme to rolo toy xeirokrothth.

SIDERHS: Den qa diafwnhsete, bebaia, oti Ypoyrgos eipe se Ypoyrgiko Symboylio na mh timwroyntai kapoioi apla kai mono epeidh einai PASOK.

PETALWTHS: Twra, na sxoliazoyme kapoia sxolia ta opoia einai anepishma, to ti, isws, eipwqhke se ena Ypoyrgiko Symboylio; Nomizw oti den einai to prepon.

Sas eyxaristw.

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