Greek Government Press Briefing, 08-11-03

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 3 Noembrioy 2008

Ariqmos Deltioy: 167790458

Ekdosh 1

brf0311

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 3 Noembrioy 2008

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs anaxwrei shmera, Deytera, gia tis Bryjelles. O k. Karamanlhs qa synanthqei me ton Proedro toy Eyrwpaikoy Laikoy Kommatos k. Wilfried Martens, ton Proedro toy Eurogroup kai Prwqypoyrgo toy Loyjemboyrgoy k. Jean-Claude Juncker kai qa milhsei gia thn embaqynsh ths Eyrwphs se hmerida poy syndiorganwnoyn to Kentro Meletwn Eyrwpaikhs Politikhs kai to Idryma ``Kwnstantinos Karamanlhs''. O Prwqypoyrgos qa epistrecei ayrio to brady sthn Aqhna.

To programma to exete, opote den xreiazetai na mpw se perissoteres leptomereies.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh polla akoygontai gia thn oikonomikh politikh, h kybernhsh anamenei to prasino fws apo tis Bryjelles gia na anaqewrhsei ton Proypologismo, basika, krisima megeqh toy Proypologismoy;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa exoyme pei gia ton Proypologismo kai osa exei pei kat` epanalhch o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Opws gnwrizete, exei katateqei to prosxedio gia ton Proypologismo. Qa katateqei, opws problepetai, to sxedio Proypologismoy, to opoio qa kineitai sto plaisio akribws toy prosxedioy. Den exw na prosqesw kati parapanw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Moy epitrepete mia dieykrinish.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Dhladh, den yparxei endexomeno anaqewrhshs orismenwn megeqwn toy Proypologismoy, efoson oi Bryjelles anacoyn to prasino fws gia xalarwsh toy Symfwnoy Staqerothtas;

ANTWNAROS: Kanete polles ypoqetikes erwthseis. Jekinate apo ypoqeseis tis opoies egw, ayth th stigmh, den eimai se qesh na epibebaiwsw. Isxyoyn ayta akribws poy sas eipa, apantwntas sthn prwth erwthsh poy moy kanate.

ARMENHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o k. Almoynia sthn ejamhniaia ekqesh toy problepei oti o ryqmos anaptyjhs sthn Ellada qa kineitai sto 2,5%. Einai ena pososto poy mas ikanopoiei;

ANTWNAROS: Sas enhmerwnw oti se ligo - -ean den exei ginei hdh- - qa ekdoqei ep` aytoy mia anakoinwsh toy Ypoyrgoy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Giwrgoy Alogoskoyfh. Mia arxikh topoqethsh poy qa hqela na kanw, symfwna me thn prwth plhroforhsh thn opoia exw, einai oti oi probleceis aytes einai konta stis dikes mas.

GALIATSATOS: Epeidh oi probleceis einai kai ligo kalyteres apo tis dikes sas, na ypoqesw oti den yparxei kanenas logos allaghs toy Proypologismoy meta apo aythn;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na pw kati parapanw. Htan h prwth erwthsh poy moy egine apo ton k. Palaiologo.

KAKALHS: Ara, me bash ta stoixeia kai ths Komision, den yfistatai kanena qema yfeshs sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. 'Isa-isa poy exei ychloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs. Me bash ayto, h kybernhsh zhta tipota apo tis Bryjelles, oson afora th xalarwsh toy Symfwnoy Staqerothtas;

ANTWNAROS: Kai se ayto to qema exoyme topoqethqei me safhneia. Profanws, anafereste sthn eyelijia. Molis prin apo liges hmeres, o Prwqypoyrgos - -sth syzhthsh poy egine sth Boylh thn perasmenh Paraskeyh gia to qema ths oikonomias- - eixe anaferqei poly analytika sth qesh mas, sth stash thn opoia akoloyqei h Ellada. H Ellada metexei se olh th diadikasia poy ginetai ayth th stigmh sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Opws gnwrizete, diejagontai dyo syzhthseis: Sto xwro ths Eyrwzwnhs, alla kai sto xwro twn 27 melwn, dhladh kai twn xwrwn oi opoies den metexoyn sthn Eyrwzwnh. Ginetai analysh twn ejelijewn poy exoyme sth dieqnh oikonomia kai pws aytes oi ejelijeis ephreazoyn ton eyrwpaiko xwro kai fysika kai th xwra mas. Eipa kai thn Pempth, sthn teleytaia enhmerwsh thn opoia sas ekana, oti oi ejelijeis sth dieqnh oikonomia einai synexeis. Den exoyme dei kapoia oloklhrwsh twn fasewn aytwn. Kai shmasia exei na tis parakoloyqoyme apo konta, na eimaste enhmeroi kai na kanoyme o,ti einai aparaithto, opws exoyme kanei ola ayta ta xronia, prokeimenoy na anakoyfizontai ekeinoi poy exoyn th megalyterh anagkh.

KAKALHS: Ayto akribws einai to qema, to teleytaio poy eipate, dhladh oti enw eimaste se fash anaptyjhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai se ychloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs se sxesh me thn Eyrwzwnh, omws den exei ginei tipota gia toys oikonomika asqenesteroys, opws lete.

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn ginei para polla pragmata kai den nomizw oti qa qelate, ayth th stigmh, na sas ta anaferw. An to qelete, eyxaristws na to kanw.

KAKALHS: Safws, den exei ginei tipota.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai mia dikh sas...

KAKALHS: Exoyn megalwsei oi koinwnikes anisothtes. Ayto einai pera apo kaqe amfibolia ola ayta ta xronia poy...

ANTWNAROS: Sas ypenqymizw...

KAKALHS: ... htan se ryqmoys anaptyjhs.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai mia dikh sas mhdenistikh proseggish, thn opoia den symmerizomai se kanena ths shmeio.

TSIOYFOS: Kai oi plhrofories poy fqanoyn apo tis Bryjelles lene oti ayth h peribohth xalarwsh toy Symfwnoy Staqerothtas qa ginei kata periptwsh. Ayth h apoch fainetai oti kyriarxei stoys kolpoys ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. To gegonos ayto, kata periptwsh xalarwsh, se syndyasmo me toys dikoys mas akoma ychloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs, dhmioyrgei problhma sthn kybernhsh sto gegonos oti piqanon gia emas na mhn isxysei ayth h xalarwsh h na isxysei me kapoioys diaforetikoys oroys se sxesh me toys ypoloipoys;

ANTWNAROS: Qa hqela na perimenete, opws perimenoyme oloi, thn oloklhrwsh twn diadikasiwn aytwn, oi opoies opws sas eipa einai se ejelijh. Moy qetete ypoqetikes erwthseis...

TSIOYFOS: Den einai ypoqetiko.

ANTWNAROS: Den to lew me kaqoloy epitimhtiko h epikritiko tropo. Sas exw pei kai alles fores apo ayto edw to bhma oti emeis sthrizoyme thn ejantlhsh twn dynatothtwn poy exoyn oi eyelijies toy Symfwnoy Staqerothtas. Einai safhs h qesh ayth. Thn exei ekfrasei o Prwqypoyrgos, opws sas eipa, molis proxqes sth Boylh. Den allazei kati.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sth Genikh Grammateia Enhmerwshs yparxei mhxanismos o opoios kanei parakoloyqhsh kai fakelwma politikwn kai dhmosiografwn, oi opoioi kanoyn dhlwseis kai topoqethseis sta hlektronika MME;

ANTWNAROS: Asfalws kai oxi.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes, h efhmerida moy paroysiase ena eggrafo, to opoio ektos apo thn apodeltiwsh exei kai ajiologhseis epanw. Ayto eseis pws to blepete;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas elega oti kalo qa htan h efhmerida sas efoson thn epikaleiste, na caxnei kalytera ta stoixeia. Edw kai ena xrono ginetai mia katagrafh, opws ginotan panta, me alloys tropoys, thleoptikwn deltiwn, radiofwnikwn deltiwn kai ekpompwn. H efhmerida sas, profanws, phre ena egxeiridio to opoio eixe episynafqei se ayto to programma. Palaiotera, jerete, katagrafontan oi eidhseis apo polles thleoraseis tis opoies eblepe kapoios kai yphrxan anqrwpoi poy kaqontan kai egrafan. Ayta twra me to Internet ginontai me hlektroniko, me pio aplo tropo. Den yparxei tipota to ypopto. Yparxei, loipon, ena egxeiridio, to opoio se paradeigmata poy paroysiaze - -kai malista ekpompwn me synqesh proswpwn, h opoia den yparxei, proswpwn poy den exoyn kanei pote apo koinoy tetoies ekpompes- - elege oti mporei na einai arnhtikh h qetikh. Se ayto anafereste.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai, yphrxe ajiologhsh ths topoqethshs.

ANTWNAROS: Qa deite, loipon, oti se oles aytes tis katagrafes twn ekpompwn den yparxei poyqena ajiologhsh. Poyqena. Sas diabebaiw.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai ta eggrafa poy brhkame emeis, tote pws einai, k. Ekproswpe;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa. Einai ena egxeiridio to opoio eixe endeijeis gia tis dynatothtes poy periexei to programma, oi opoies pote den exoyn xrhsimopoihqei.

GKOYTZANHS: Eixe endeiktikh ajiologhsh tote epanw.

ANTWNAROS: Egw ayto akribws sas lew. To egxeiridio oydepote xrhsimopoihqhke.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai, alla ti nohma exei estw kai endeiktika h peiramatika na exei oti einai filikos h mallon einai oydeteros o Proedros toy SYRIZA k. Alekos Alabanos se mia topoqethsh toy;

ANTWNAROS: Edeixne aplws tis dynatothtes poy mporei na exei ena programma, oi opoies mporei na einai aperioristes. Oi dynatothtes aytes oydepote exoyn xrhsimopoihqei. Gia perissotera, en pash periptwsei, sas parakalw na apeyqynqeite, an qelete, kai ston Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn k. Prokoph Paylopoylo, o opoios exei kai thn politikh eyqynh twn dyo Genikwn Grammateiwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi. Ayto aforoyse ton k. Roysopoylo, giati htan epi twn hmerwn toy k. Roysopoyloy, oxi toy k. Paylopoyloy.

ANTWNAROS: Kai sas apanthsa.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo o,ti fainetai oi trapezes den skopeyoyn na kanoyn xrhsh twn ryqmisewn gi` ayto to sxedio eggyodosias poy anakoinwse h kybernhsh. Anarwtiemai an apo to poso ayto toylaxiston ta 5 dis eyrw poy htan amesws katablhtea stis trapezes efoson to epiqymoysan...

ANTWNAROS: Mexri pente.

XIWTHS: Mexri pente. Ayto eipa.

ANTWNAROS: Mexri pente. Oxi ta pente.

XIWTHS: Mexri pente. Nai, ayto eipa. An skopeyei h kybernhsh na ta diaqesei se alloys tomeis toy kratikoy mhxanismoy poy fainetai oti nosei. Gia paradeigma, sta asfalistika Tameia opoy emfanizontai adynamies pleon katabolhs kai toy efapaj, opws gia paradeigma sto Tameio Dhmosiwn Ypallhlwn.

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, aytoi oi opoioi anaferontai sto Tameio Dhmosiwn Ypallhlwn foboymai oti den einai kala enhmerwmenoi. To Tameio Dhmosiwn Ypallhlwn, opws gnwrizete, ypagetai - -an h plhroforhsh poy exw einai swsth- - sto Geniko Logisthrio toy Kratoys. Exw pei kai alles fores oti oi kataboles twn syntajewn kai olwn twn allwn bohqhmatwn einai eggyhmenes apo to Syntagma. Synepws, den yparxei kanena problhma oson afora tis syntajeis h alla bohqhmata ta opoia fqanoyn stoys dikaioyxoys, syntajioyxoys h mh. To deytero qema sto opoio anaferqhkate: Exoyme pei apo thn arxh oti h symmetoxh se ayto to programma, poy einai programma sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias synolika, einai eqelontikh. Den ypoxrewnetai kapoios na metasxei. Einai ena programma to opoio exei stoxo th sthrijh olhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai th diasfalish ths reystothtas gia toys Ellhnes polites, toys mikromesaioys, aytoys poy pairnoyn stegastika daneia, alla kai alloys, poy exoyn thn anagkh na exoyn kapoia sxesh me tis trapezes. Oi trapezes, loipon, exoyn to dikaiwma, efoson to krinoyn, na epilejoyn ean qeloyn na ypaxqoyn sto programma h oxi. Den exw, omws, thn amfibolia oti oi trapezes qa katanohsoyn oti to diko toys symferon sympiptei me to symferon ths ellhnikhs koinwnias.

XIWTHS: Den exete apanthsei sto ena skelos ths erwthshs moy. Dhladh, ayto to poso twn ews kai 5 dis eyrw, to opoio h kybernhsh to exei proypologisei, efoson oi trapezes qewroyn oti den qeloyn na kanoyn xrhsh, qa to diaqesei kapoy alloy h oxi;

ANTWNAROS: Gnwrizete oti h dynatothta symmetoxhs twn endiaferomenwn xrhmatopistwtikwn Idrymatwn se ayto to sxedio gia thn enisxysh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, exei mia diarkeia. Synepws, qa prepei kapoios na perimenei na dei pws qa ejelixqei to sxedio.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, tis epomenes wres o k. Roysopoylos qa dwsei dyo toylaxiston synenteyjeis. Yparxei kapoia enoxlhsh apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs gi` ayth th drasthriothta toy k. Roysopoyloy; Kai to rwtw ayto, giati thn idia stigmh jekina sth Boylh h Ejetastikh Epitroph gia to qema toy Batopaidioy kai isws kapoia pragmata ta opoia qa eipwqoyn qa mporoysan na periplejoyn ta pragmata.

ANTWNAROS: Jerete na exw ekfrasei pote enoxlhsh gia synenteyjeis poy exoyn dwsei stelexh toy kommatos ths Neas Dhmokratias; Den qa breite oyte mia tetoia periptwsh. Den qa to kanw oyte ayth th fora, giati den yparxei tetoia enoxlhsh.

MPOTSARHS: Na pame ston tomea ths Ygeias. Shmera, gia akoma mia fora akoysame ton k. Abramopoylo na ejaggellei nea metra, na mila gia ejygiansh k.t.l. Ektos, omws, oti ta megalytera nosokomeia ths xwras exoyn balei loyketo, yparxei kai ena allo kayto qema poy afora 3.500 ergazomenoys kai 3.000 asqeneis me cyxika problhmata. Kai enw kat` arxhn exoyn na plhrwqoyn tesseris me pente mhnes oi ergazomenoi, para tis yposxeseis proswpika toy k. Abramopoyloy, kai epishs kindyneyoyn na kleisoyn aytes oi monades logw mh xrhmatodothshs, ofeilontai xrhmata apo to 2005, 1.000.000 eyrw, den exoyn thlefwna aytes oi monades, kindyneyoyn na meinoyn xwris trofima. Milame gia aqlia katastash. Thn wra akoyme oti dinontai disekatommyria eyrw apo edw kai apo ekei, den prepei na koitaxqei to en logw qema, k. Ekproswpe;

ANTWNAROS: Na eiste bebaios oti kanena apolytws eyrw den didetai ekei opoy den prepei na doqei. Ta xrhmata toy ellhnikoy laoy, ta xrhmata twn Ellhnwn forologoymenwn kateyqynontai etsi wste na pianoyn topo. Gia to sygkekrimeno qema, qa moy epitrecete na enhmerwqw kai na sas apanthsw argotera, ektos kai an eseis qelete na apeyqynqeite o idios sto armodio Ypoyrgeio.

MPOTSARHS: Exoyn apeyqynqei epaneilhmmena oi ergazomenoi, gi` ayto erwtw esas, giati prepei na labei qesh kai h kybernhsh. Qa meinoyn 3.000 anqrwpoi - -aytoi oi en logw asqeneis den exoyn oikogeneies- - qa meinoyn sto dromo, k. Ekproswpe;

ANTWNAROS: Qa enhmerwqw kai elpizw syntoma, isws entos ths hmeras, na exw mia apanthsh gia esas.

GALIATSATOS: Qa epanelqw sto deytero skelos ths erwthshs toy k. Xiwth. Qelw na sas rwthsw to ejhs: H Komision problepei oti h anaptyjh sth xwra mas den kindyneyei. Ayto poy kindyneyoyme emeis, omws, na paqoyme se ayth th xwra einai na mas dhmioyrghsoyn mia yfesh texnhta oi trapezes, oi opoies oxi mono koboyn tis xorhghseis daneiwn, alla ayjanoyn kai ta epitokia mexri kai pente monades se otidhpote katanalwtiko daneio, karta, k.t.l, yparxei. Yphrxan para polla dhmosieymata gi` ayto to Sabbatokyriako. Skopeyei, loipon, h kybernhsh me kapoio tropo na askhsei piesh stoys trapezites, wste na epwmistoyn thn koinwnikh eyqynh poy toys analogei se ayth thn krish;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka me para poly safh tropo prohgoymenws. Isxyei h apanthsh thn opoia sas edwsa. Kai den qelw na thn epanalabw, oxi gia alloys logoys, alla dioti nomizw oti perikleiei mesa se mia frash ola osa hqela na pw.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, egw qelw na sas rwthsw gia mia allh synenteyjh, h opoia proerxetai oxi apo kapoion apo toys apokaloymenoys ``antartes'', alla apo to stelexos poy einai epifortismeno me ton politiko sxediasmo ths Neas Dhmokratias. O k. Nikos Karaxalios se synenteyjh toy sthn efhmerida ``Free Sunday'' kanei seira kairiwn protasewn poy aforoyn sto komma - -kai jerw oti den eisaste eseis armodios gi` ayto to skelos- - anaferetai omws kai ston tropo leitoyrgias ths kybernhshs. Leei, etsi, oti prepei na ginoyn domikes allages ston tropo leitoyrgias ths alla kai toy prwqypoyrgikoy epiteleioy. Epishs, proteinei neo montelo diakybernhshs perissotero syllogiko kai anoikto, rhjh me ta fainomena kakodiaxeirishs kai ploytismoy, strofh sthn oikonomikh politikh pros ofelos ths mesaias tajhs. Kalei, telos, ton Prwqypoyrgo na kinhqei ektos toy Megaroy Majimoy. H kybernhsh, pws lambanei ypoch ths tis parathrhseis aytes toy Grammatea Politikoy Sxediasmoy ths Neas Dhmokratias;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh h koybenta twra periestrafh sto montelo leitoyrgias ths kybernhshs, qewreite eseis ws kybernhsh oti yparxoyn Hrakleideis toy stemmatos; H allws pws basilikoteroi toy basilews;

ANTWNAROS: Giati to lete ayto;

PALAIOLOGOS: Qelw na pw mhpws telei h kybernhsh ypo ena idiotypo Dieyqynthrio Ypoyrgwn;

ANTWNAROS: Den antilambanomai akomh, ti qelete na peite. Egw den exw kamia tetoia entypwsh. Exw erwthqei kai sas exw apanthsei. H kybernhsh leitoyrgei, opws prepei na leitoyrgei kai leitoyrgei apodotika kai apotelesmatika gia ton topo.

GALIATSATOS: Thn teleytaia ebdomada parathroyme mia synexh ekroh ependytwn apo thn agora twn ellhnikwn omologwn. Exoyn bgei apo ekei panw apo 3 dis eyrw kai to kostos daneismoy gia thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, ginetai olo kai pio akribo. Eftase sto 1,7 panw apo ta analoga dekaeth omologa toy germanikoy dhmosioy. Qa hqela na jerw, an ayth h ejelijh anhsyxei thn kybernhsh kai ti dhmosionomiko kostos, mporei na ths epiferei.

ANTWNAROS: Einai poly eidiko qema, gia to opoio parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla eseis thn perasmenh ebdomada, epitimoysate kapoioys poy den htan etoimoi, poy sas ekanan erwthseis gia anakoinwseis poy den exoyn ginei. Alla, ayto den einai kaqoloy eidiko qema. Einai geniko qema. Giati xaqhke h empistosynh - -na to pw etsi- - twn ependytwn sthn ellhnikh oikonomia;

ANTWNAROS: Eipe kaneis kati tetoio; Aytos einai dikos sas isxyrismos, ton opoio den symmerizomai.

KAKALHS: Oxi, ayto akribws shmainei to oti feygoyn mazika apo ta omologa toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy oi jenoi ependytes, oti xanetai h empistosynh sthn ellhnikh oikonomia.

ANTWNAROS: Exete kapoia dyskolia, lypamai poy to lew, na parakoloyqhsete tis dieqneis oikonomikes ejelijeis. Profanws...

KAKALHS: Eseis poy tis parakoloyqeite, mporeite na mas dwsete mia peistikh apanthsh s` ayto; Giati feygoyn mazika; Kata ta alla oi xarakthrismoi me afhnoyn adiaforo kai sas xarakthrizei ayth h alazoneia kai ayth h...

ANTWNAROS: Kamia alazoneia den me xarakthrizei. Antiqetws, to lew me para poly filiko tropo. Na sas pw, omws, kati para poly aplo.

KAKALHS: Na moy leipoyn aytes oi filies, den eixame pote filies kai oyte qa exoyme.

ANTWNAROS: To diagrafw ayto. An sas enoxlei h filikh moy diaqesh...

KAKALHS: Oxi, na mh to diagracete, na mh to diagracete kaqoloy. Diagracate polla apo ta praktika, teleytaia, se o,ti me afora kai den qelw na diagracete tipote, oyte lejh.

ANTWNAROS: Den tis diagrafw.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, qa apanthsete sthn erwthsh;

ANTWNAROS: Prwton: H filikh moy diaqesh pros oloys toys parontes, qelw na qewreitai dedomenh.

KAKALHS: Nai, den einai amoibaia, an qelete na jerete th dikh moy apoch.

ANTWNAROS: Ayto einai anafaireto dikaiwma sas. Deyteron, qelw na pw to ejhs: Ayth th stigmh, se olo ton kosmo, se opoiadhpote xwra kai an pate, qa deite oti oi dieqneis oikoi reystopoioyn ependyseis tis opoies exoyn, dioti exoyn anagkes apo reysto, anagkes se xrhma. Ayto poy symbainei, opws lete, sthn Ellada, asfalws den einai mia monadikh periptwsh. H apomonwsh aytoy toy fainomenoy ws ean na synebaine mono sthn Ellada, dhmioyrgei entypwseis, oi opoies den exoyn kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta. Ayto exw na sas apanthsw.

GALIATSATOS: Pantws, kyrie Ekproswpe, prepei na paradexteite oti apo th stigmh poy anebainei h diafora apotimhshs gia ta ellhnika omologa se sygkrish me ekeina toy germanikoy dhmosioy, einai safes oti oi ependytes ajiologoyn pio qetika th germanikh oikonomia, ap` oti th dikia mas. Kai ayto poy symbainei sto diko mas ejwteriko xreos, symbainei bebaiws kai se alles eyrwpaikes xwres, oxi omws sto diko mas epipedo.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw, gi` ayta ta eidika qemata, na apeyqynqeite - -sas eipa- - sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias.

MANH: Katateqhkan shmera sth Boylh, erwthseis gia tis ethsies amoibes kratikwn ajiwmatoyxwn kai symfwna me tis sygkekrimenes erwthseis einai para poly ychles. Ftanoyn kata periptwsh stis 500.000 eyrw to xrono. Qa yparjei anaprosarmogh gia tis dioikhseis twn DEKO;

ANTWNAROS: Oi erwthseis apantwntai sth Boylh, dia ths koinoboyleytikhs odoy.

MANH: Den eiste se qesh na peite an qa yparjei anaprosarmogh twn misqwn;

ANTWNAROS: Oi erwthseis poy ypoballontai sth Boylh, apantwntai me enan sygkekrimeno tropo. Ayth th diadikasia den exw proqesh na thn allajw.

KAKALHS: Eipate prohgoymenws, oti oi trapezes qa katanohsoyn sto telos oti to diko toys symferon sympiptei me to symferon ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Lete na einai xazes oi trapezes kai na mhn katalabainoyn poio einai to symferon toys;

ANTWNAROS: Eseis kanete sxolio;

KAKALHS: Oxi, erwthsh kanw. Giati h kybernhsh sthrizei tis trapezes dixws oi idies na to zhtane.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh, h ellhnikh Politeia gia thn akribeia, sthrizei thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Exw analysei tis teleytaies hmeres, kat` epanalhch, ti periexei ayto to programma kai den qewrw skopimo na to epanalabw gia tetarth h pempth fora.

KAKALHS: Pws qa diasfalisei h kybernhsh oti qa meiwqoyn ta epitokia kai qa xorhghqoyn stegastika daneia mesa apo ayto to programma;

ANTWNAROS: An diabasete thn anakoinwsh, thn opoia ejedwse thn Paraskeyh o k. Alogoskoyfhs, opoy anaferetai sto Symboylio Epopteias Efarmoghs gia ekeines tis trapezes, oi opoies qa metasxoyn sto programma, qa deite akribws, oloys toys oroys, oi opoioi qa efarmostoyn.

KAKALHS: Wraia, oi trapezites...

ANTWNAROS: To oti orismenes trapezes, endexomenws, den dexontai na ypaxqoyn sto programma, deixnei akribws thn aysthrothta kai thn akribeia twn orwn oi opoioi exoyn teqei.

KAKALHS: Oi trapezites zhtoyn na allajoyn aytoi oi oroi. H kybernhsh qa dexqei allagh s` aytoys toys oroys;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei ypoballei pros egkrish sth Boylh, sygkekrimeno plaisio kai ayto to plaisio qa isxysei. Opoios qelei na ypaxqei sto programma, qa thrhsei toys oroys. Qa hqela, de, na pw kai kati allo: Eixe ginei tis teleytaies hmeres poly syzhthsh, oti dhqen h kybernhsh, h ellhnikh Politeia xarizei xrhmata stoys trapezites. Jerete kanenan poy na toy xarizoyn lefta kai na mhn erqei na ta parei;

KAKALHS: Ta hqelan entelws dwrean. Ta qeloyn ola tzampa.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Se poion baqmo, anarwtiemai, me ti baqmo endiaferontos parakoloyqei h ellhnikh kybernhsh tis amerikanikes ekloges kai ti perimenei, an perimenei kati, se sxesh me ta qemata poy mas aforoyn - -kai kalws h kakws oi Hnwmenes Politeies einai emplekomenes- - apo to neo enoiko toy Leykoy Oikoy, etsi xarakthrizetai.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio gia mia dhmokratikh diadikasia, h opoia prokeitai na labei xwra ayrio, se ena allo kratos.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Qelete na peite oti den thn parakoloyqeite; Den exete zhtoymena apo ayto to pragma (den akoygetai);

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, nomizw oti kanate mia sygxysh prohgoymenws. Allo h ellhnikh kybernhsh, allo h ellhnikh Politeia.

ANTWNAROS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh ekproswpei thn ellhnikh Politeia.

GKOYTZANHS: Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti symfwna toylaxiston me toys klasikoys orismoys ths Politeias kai toys nomikoys orismoys poy emperiexontai kai sth syntagmatikh qewria, kaqe allo para ekproswpei h kybernhsh thn ellhnikh Politeia. H ellhnikh Politeia einai eyryterh, perilambanei to synolo toy politikoy systhmatos kai akomh kai ths koinwnias. Pws mporeite eseis na milate ek meroys allwn politikwn dynamewn kai ek meroys allwn koinwnikwn dynamewn;

ANTWNAROS: Ean qelete ``na kanete thn trixa trixia'', mporeite na to kanete. Otan leme ``h Politeia''...

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, oxi einai sobaro, kyrie Ekproswpe, den einai h ``trixa trixia''.

ANTWNAROS: Entajei. To kratos tote speydei pros enisxysh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. To kratos ekproswpei, pera apo opoiadhpote amfibolia, h kybernhsh, h ekastote syntagmatika eklegmenh kybernhsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pws ermhneyei h kybernhsh tis ektimhseis orismenwn koryfaiwn stelexwn ths, opws toy Ypoyrgoy k. Sphliwtopoyloy, alla kai toy Grammatea toy Politikoy Sxediasmoy toy kommatos ths Neas Dhmokratias, poy kanoyn logo gia ``baridia'' ta opoia qa prepei na afhsei pisw ths h Nea Dhmokratia. Giati xrhsimopoioyn koinh glwssa kai ta dyo koryfaia stelexh ths;

ANTWNAROS: Den antilambanomai ti qelete na peite. Exw, de, thn entypwsh oti apodidete dhlwseis, oi opoies exoyn ginei, epilektika.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nomizw oti tis exw mprosta moy kai mporw na sas tis diabasw.

ANTWNAROS: Diabaste tis.

PALAIOLOGOS: O k. Karaxalios: ``Xreiazetai rhjh me ta ``baridia'' toy parelqontos poy exoyn syndyastei me fainomena kakodiaxeirishs kai ploytismoy kata th diarkeia ths neas diakybernhshs''. O k. Sphliwtopoylos: ``Ta ``baridia'' toy parelqontos exoyn egkataleiftei''.

ANTWNAROS: Den leei ayto o k. Sphliwtopoylos. Diabaste olh th dhlwsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Th qelete oloklhrh th dhlwsh toy k. Sphliwtopoyloy;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws.

PALAIOLOGOS: O k. Sphliwtopoylos ekane kai dieykrinistikh dhlwsh poy eipe oti ennooyse th mizeria kai thn eswstrefeia. Qelete olh ayth th dhlwsh;

ANTWNAROS: Akribws ayto ennooysa.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai.

ANTWNAROS: Loipon, exei kanei paremferh, poly safh dhlwsh o Prwqypoyrgos sthn teleytaia synedriash ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs ths Neas Dhmokratias. Eipe oti h eswstrefeia teleiwnei edw shmera. Synepws, o k. Sphliwtopoylos den ekane tipote allo apo to na epanalabei th dhlwsh thn opoia exei kanei o Prwqypoyrgos.

PALAIOLOGOS: Egw, menw wstoso, omws, sth frash ``ta baridia'', gia thn opoia den ekane kamia anafora o Prwqypoyrgos, parempiptontws.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti h frash einai synolikh. Den mporeite na epilegete tmhmata ths, opws eseis qelete.

FANIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate prin oti to symferon ths ellhnikhs oikonomias einai to symferon twn trapezwn kai prepei na to katalaboyme...

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, egw den eipa ayto.

FANIDHS: Ma, to symferon twn trapezitwn einai kai to symferon ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, ths eqnikhs oikonomias...

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, den eipa ayto.

FANIDHS: Ths koinwnias eipate;

ANTWNAROS: Eipa oti oi trapezes prepei na katalaboyn oti to diko toys symferon sympiptei me to symferon ths ellhnikhs koinwnias.

FANIDHS: Wraia, panw s` ayto, loipon.

ANTWNAROS: Kai me ton tropo poy th diatypwsa th frash.

FANIDHS: S` ayto akribws symfwnoyme, opws to eipate. Fainetai, omws, oti oi trapezes den prokeitai na proxwrhsoyn me ayth th logikh, dioti sas eipe prin o synadelfos Galiatsatos, oti kata pente monades ayjhsane ta epitokia kai poios jerei akomh ti allo exoyn skopo na kanoyn. Egw, loipon, anarwtiemai to ejhs: Giati, mesoyshs ayths ths krishs, h kybernhsh den zhthse apo toys trapezites na enisxysoyn oi idioi me kefalaia, apo ta polla poy exoyn, tis epixeirhseis toys. Den einai logiko enas epixeirhmatias na bazei kai xrhmata apo thn tseph toy gia na enisxysei thn epixeirhsh thn opoia exei; Giati, loipon, qa prepei na syndramei to oikonomiko systhma ths xwras mas, s` ayth thn kateyqynsh;

ANTWNAROS: Epeidh moy paroysiazete, nomizw thn apoch toy PASOK, opws akribws thn exei ekfrasei o arxhgos toy, den mas briskei symfwnoys se polloys tomeis kai kyriws sto ejhs: To ellhniko kratos, h ellhnikh kybernhsh den enisxyei tis trapezes. Enisxyei thn ellhnikh oikonomia, ejasfalizontas ths reystothta mesw twn trapezwn. Ean oi trapezes nomizoyn oti mporoyn mones toys na ejasfalisoyn ayth th reystothta, thn opoia mexri twra profanws den mporoysan na to kanoyn, dioti exoyn kleisei akribws oi kroynoi sth diatrapezikh agora, den exoyn para na to prajoyn. Sas eipa kai prohgoymenws, h symmetoxh sto programma ayto einai eqelontikh. Osoi qeloyn thn arwgh kai ths kefalaiakhs bohqeias kai ths bohqeias poy ejasfalizoyn oi eggyhseis wste na breqoyn xrhmata apo alles trapezes me eynoikoys oroys, qa entaxqoyn sto sxedio. Apospasmatika, ayth th sthrijh den mporoyn na thn paroyn opws qeloyn orismenoi.

FANIDHS: Pantws, den einai h qesh toy PASOK kyrie Ekproswpe. Einai kai qesh pollwn synadelfwn, arqrografwn kai kaqhmerina nomizw oti (den akoygetai) kai eseis.

ANTWNAROS: Nai, alla egw, opws jerete den kanw dialogo...

FANIDHS: Dhladh, pws qa ton kanoyme tote;

ANTWNAROS: Egw den kanw dialogo me toys synadelfoys sas toy oikonomikoy Typoy. Egw kanw dialogo me toys alloys foreis ths politikhs zwhs toy topoy.

FANIDHS: Wraia. Den sas problhmatizei kaqoloy to gegonos oti oi trapezites arnhqhkan na paroyn ayth th bohqeia, thn opoia eseis poly wraia th xarakthrisate, symfwnoyme mazi sas, giati arnoyntai na th laboyn;

ANTWNAROS: Rwthste toys idioys.

FANIDHS: E, twra. Edw eimaste kyrie Ekproswpe. Pws qa rwthsoyme toys idioys;

ANTWNAROS: Rwthste toys idioys. Egw sas eipa oti eimai bebaios oti oi ellhnikes trapezes qa katalaboyn oti to diko toys symferon sympiptei me to symferon ths ellhnikhs koinwnias.

MPOTSARHS: O Dhmarxos Aqhnaiwn k. Kaklamanhs, eipe shmera oti prepei h kybernhsh na mazecei toys dioikhtes twn DEKO poy zhtoyn synexws ayjhseis enocei ths krishs poy yparxei sthn oikonomia, enw epeshmane oti prepei na mazeytoyn kai oi proistamenoi toys, oi Ypoyrgoi. Exete kapoio sxolio;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

GKOYTZANHS: Mporeite na moy lysete mia aporia; Pws einai dynaton to diko moy to symferon poy plhrwnw tis trapezes me ychla epitokia na einai idio me to symferon twn trapezwn poy moy ta pairnoyn; Den to exw katalabei ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den antilambaneste th dhlwsh thn opoia ekana.

Sas eyxaristw.

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