Greek Government Press Briefing, 08-10-30

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 30 Oktwbrioy 2008

Ariqmos Deltioy: 167075928

Ekdosh 1

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KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 30 Oktwbrioy 2008

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MIXAHL: Qelw na sas kanw dyo erwthseis. H prwth erwthsh afora ti sxoliazete ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos, gia tis diametrika antiqetes apoceis poy ekfrazei o k. Alogoskoyfhs kai o k. Soyflias, gia to qema twn dhmosiwn ependysewn.

ANTWNAROS: Egw gnwrizw tis dhmosies dhlwseis. Kai jerw epishs oti sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph - -epeidh profanws se ayto anafereste- - ginetai pantote mia antallagh apocewn. Ginetai mia antallagh apocewn eidika otan einai na syzhthqei ena qema toso shmantiko, opws einai h krish sth dieqnh oikonomia kai oi epiptwseis tis opoies mporei na exei sth xwra mas. Sas exw pei kai alles fores - -to jerete allwste eimai bebaios kai apo th dikh sas empeiria- - oti ayto akribws einai ena poly paragwgiko stoixeio sth syzhthsh poy ginetai sto plaisio ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs: H antallagh apocewn metajy twn melwn ths kybernhshs poy paristantai kai pairnoyn meros s` aythn.

MIXAHL: Epitrecte moy, o k. Soyflias me thn apoch toy, en pash periptwsei, na enisxyqei to Programma Dhmosiwn Ependysewn enocei ths kataqeshs toy oristikoy sxedioy toy Proypologismoy, oysiastika qewreitai - -oxi mono o idios kai arqrografia sxetikh kai alloi oikonomologoi to lene- - oti etsi qa enisxyqoyn para-para poly, arketoi kladoi ths Oikonomias kai kata synepeia qa synexisei na enisxyetai kai o ryqmos anaptyjhs. Yparxei ena endexomeno sth skech sas na ayjhsete ta kondylia twn Dhmosiwn Ependysewn sto neo Proypologismo;

ANTWNAROS: Otan lhfqoyn sygkekrimenes apofaseis, qa tis plhroforhqeite.

MIXAHL: H deyterh erwthsh einai h ejhs: Mas ejhghsate xqes pws h kybernhsh exei thn apoch gi` ayto to perifhmo paketo twn...

ANTWNAROS: Den einai qema apochs. Einai qema stoixeiwn.

MIXAHL: Nai, twn stoixeiwn, olo ayto mas to ejhghsate. Wstoso, enas ek twn shmantikwn trapezitwn ths xwras, o k. Bgenopoylos, sas epekrine gia ton tropo poy to xeirizeste to qema, krinontas kai toys synadelfoys toy. Ti apantate;

ANTWNAROS: Sas exw pei kai to epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora - -qa kanei kai dieykrinistikes dhlwseis se ligo ep` aytoy o k. Alogoskoyfhs dinontas akomh perissotera stoixeia gia to sygkekrimeno programma sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias- - ti akribws perilambanei ayto to programma. Profanws, orismenoi eite den qeloyn eite dyskoleyontai na antilhfqoyn kati poly aplo: To programma ayto stoxeyei sthn enisxysh ths Oikonomias, th diathrhsh twn ryqmwn anaptyjhs ths Oikonomias, th diathrhsh rohs xrhmatos pros oloys ekeinoys toys Ellhnes poy xreiazontai, eite se proswpiko epipedo eite se epaggelmatiko epipedo, xrhmata prokeimenoy na synexisoyn tis drasthriothtes toys. Kai etsi me ton tropo ayto qwrakizetai kai h apasxolhsh sthn Ellada.

TERZHS: Ep` aytoy: Dyo tina symbainoyn loipon, h eseis den eiste peistikoi sthn epixeirhmatologia sas gia to qema h emeis kati den kanoyme kala. Den qelw na moy sxoliasete to deytero, mallon omws den eiste peistikoi, dioti h koinh gnwmh alla pisteyei. To deytero kai to oysiastiko erwthma einai, an ayth h enesh h eggyhsh ek meroys toy kratoys toy diatrapezikoy daneismoy, blepete oti pernaei sthn agora kai oti yparxei reystothta sthn agora.

ANTWNAROS: Eidate oti kanete mia erwthsh, h opoia akribws deixnei oti profanws den exete katalabei - -kai den to lew me thn ennoia ths proswpikhs momfhs- - peri tinos akribws prokeitai. To programma den exei efarmostei akomh. Milhsate gia reystothta poy pernaei sthn agora. Ma, h reystothta qa perasei sthn agora, molis efarmostei to programma, osonoypw. Edw ginetai mia terastia prospaqeia na paroysiastoyn apla stoixeia, diaforetika ap` ayta poy pragmatika einai. Miloyn para polloi - -me proejarxon to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs- - kai isxyrizontai oti qa pane 28 disekatommyria eyrw apo ta Tameia toy ellhnikoy kratoys, ths ellhnikhs Politeias, sta tameia twn trapezwn. To epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora: Den yparxei megalytero cema, megalyterh analhqeia ap` ayto ton isxyrismo. Xqes, me polles leptomereies - -to xqesino briefing htan ektenes, opws qa eidate kai apo to keimeno ths apomagnhtofwnhshs- - anaferqhka se oles aytes tis leptomereies. Sta tria stoixeia, stoys treis megaloys tomeis poy apoteloyn akribws to programma gia th sthrijh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Qelete na ta epanalabw; Exw ta stoixeia kai eyxaristws na to kanw. Den mporoyn, synepws, orismenoi na isxyrizontai me diafora ewla epixeirhmata oti ejakoloyqoyn na mhn katalabainoyn peri tinos prokeitai.

XIDIROGLOY: Meta ta metra poy labate gia thn enisxysh toy xrhmatopistwtikoy tomea, h kybernhsh skopeyei na labei kai kapoia metra gia thn enisxysh kai thn prostasia toy katanalwth apo kapoia fainomena poy isws prokycoyn apo thn krish;

ANTWNAROS: Molis shmera, prin apo ligo, ekanan dhlwseis o Ypoyrgos Anaptyjhs k. Xrhstos Fwlias kai o Yfypoyrgos Anaptyjhs k. Giwrgos Blaxos kai anaferqhkan sta apotelesmata sygkekrimenwn elegxwn poy eginan to teleytaio diasthma se soyper-market kai tis poines tis opoies apofasise na epiballei to Ypoyrgeio. Ola ayta, apodeiknyoyn emprakta oti exoyme thn apofasistikothta, th boylhsh na baloyme telos se kaqe aqemith praktikh paraplanhshs kai ekmetalleyshs toy Ellhna katanalwth. Oi ``gkrizes zwnes'' sthn agora prepei na ekleicoyn. Den einai apodektes praktikes poy qetoyn se kindyno ta symferonta toy Ellhna katanalwth. Kai ola ayta dhladh h antimetwpish aytwn twn fainomenwn exei ginei efikth, giati exoyme ftiajei ekeino to qesmiko plaisio poy den yphrxe sto prosfato parelqon kai den epetrepe thn patajh, thn antimetwpish aytwn twn fainomenwn.

TSIOYFOS: Exw shmeiwsei edw, oti eipate oti to programma stoxeyei sth diathrhsh twn ryqmwn anaptyjhs ths Oikonomias...

ANTWNAROS: Kata to dynaton. To eipa kai xqes. Anaferqhka kai se sygkekrimena noymera.

TSIOYFOS: Nai. Nomizw oti ayto einai to zhtoymeno se oles tis oikonomies tis eyrwpaikes kai thn amerikanikh, ayto einai to zhtoymeno, ayth th stigmh. Aplws, egw lew kai rwtaw taytoxrona oso anagkaia kai an einai ta opoia metra enisxyshs twn asqenestera oikonomika tajewn, ayto den einai metro diathrhshs twn ryqmwn anaptyjhs, den einai anaptyjiako metro, anagkaio, alla mh anaptyjiako metro h enisxysh twn xamhlomisqwn. Apo thn allh, h protash toy k. Soyflia gia ayjhsh toy P.D.E., einai ena metro poy mporei na symbalei sth diathrhsh twn ryqmwn anaptyjhs. Na symperanw, loipon, ap` ayto poy lete, oti h prospaqeia ths kybernhshs einai na sygkerasei ayta ta dyo pragmata; Dhladh kai kapoia metra enisxyshs twn asqenesterwn kai taytoxrona kai anaptyjiaka metra;

ANTWNAROS: Qa diafwnhsw mazi sas se orismena apo osa eipate. Oxi se ola. Na sas pw to ejhs: H ejasfalish qesewn ergasias me thn paroxh twn anagkaiwn xrhmatodotikwn dieykolynsewn, as to poyme etsi, toy xrhmatos dhladh poy xreiazetai mia mikrh, mia mesaia epixeirhsh prokeimenoy na leitoyrghsei, ejasfalizei th doyleia se polloys ergazomenoys.

TSIOYFOS: Kai mesa apo to P.D.E.;

ANTWNAROS: Prepei loipon na ejasfalistei, to eipa kai xqes, h aproskopth leitoyrgia twn mikromesaiwn ellhnikwn epixeirhsewn. Oi epixeirhseis aytes - -polles dekades xiliades, an oxi perissoteres- - apoteloyn th raxokokalia ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Einai aytes poy sthrizoyn tis ellhnikes oikogeneies. Kaqe ellhnikh oikogeneia h h idia diaqetei mia tetoia epixeirhsh h doyleyoyn kapoia melh ths se tetoies epixeirhseis. Qa hqela ayto na to dieykrinisw, ligo perissotero. Ti symbainei ayth th stigmh sth dieqnh diatrapezikh agora; Exei sterecei, as to poyme etsi, to diaqesimo xrhma h aytoi poy diaqetoyn posa kai ta daneizan mexri twra se alles trapezes edw h se alles xwres, ta kratoyn sta qhsayrofylakia toys kai den ta diaqetoyn. Einai poly epifylaktikoi logw ths oikonomikhs krishs h prospaqoyn na epibaloyn oroys, poly sklhroys, prokeimenoy na dwsoyn ayta ta xrhmata.

Me thn paroysia toy to ellhniko Dhmosio, xwris na exoyn problhma epibiwshs oi ellhnikes trapezes - -to ypogrammizw ayto gia na mhn yparjei kamia parejhghsh h paranohsh ep` aytoy- - erxetai kai dinei thn kratikh toy eggyhsh, dedomenoy oti h Ellada einai mia fereggya xwra kai exei antapokriqei ola ayta ta xronia stis ypoxrewseis ths se dieqnes epipedo. Synepws, eggyatai pros trites trapezes pros aytoys poy exoyn ta xrhmata, wste na dwsoyn ta xrhmata me oroys oi opoioi den qa einai epaxqeis. Dioti ayto einai shmantiko. Etsi, loipon, mpainoyn xrhmata, mpainoyn kaysima sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. Kai h ellhnikh oikonomia, h opoia kai ayth antimetwpizei to problhma reystothtas poy antimetwpizoyn alles oikonomies, megalyteres h mikroteres, exei th dynatothta na diathrhsei oles aytes tis epixeirhseis. Na dwsei stegastika daneia. Na enisxysei toys agrotes ekei poy prepei, wste oi synepeies ths dieqnoys krishs, h opoia synexizetai, na perioristoyn.

Twra, sto deytero shmeio oswn eipa. Eipa kai xqes kai to janalew kai shmera: H krish ayth ejelissetai. Den exei teleiwsei. Endexomenws, exoyn teleiwsei kapoies faseis ths. An kai gi` ayto, se dieqnes epipedo ginontai polles syzhthseis. H krishs, omws, ejelissetai. Ginontai diaboyleyseis se dieqnes epipedo. Jerete oti thn epomenh Paraskeyh, dhladh se mia ebdomada apo ayrio, qa synelqei stis Bryjelles, allh mia Synodos Koryfhs twn xwrwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, poy exei sygkalesei o Gallos Proedros, kai sthn opoia qa metasxei kai o Prwqypoyrgos k. Karamanlhs. Polla apo ta qemata poy qa syzhthqoyn ekei, polles apo tis parametroys poy qa synapofasistoyn ekei, qa dieykolynoyn endexomenws kai toys Eyrwpaioys hgetes sth lhch - - an xreiastei- - kai allwn metrwn kai allwn prwtoboyliwn. Den einai ola metra. Giati palia, mhn jexnate oti otan legame metra, ennooysame sxedon panta na epiblhqoyn foroi.

Ola ayta briskontai sto stadio ths syzhthshs, ths diaboyleyshs. Kai epeidh oi ejelijeis einai poly grhgores, me ryqmoys prwtognwroys gia osoys mporoyn na qymhqoyn ti exei symbei ta teleytaia 40-50 xronia, einai prowro na speydei kaneis na leei, prepei na ginei to ena h na ginei to allo. Sas diabebaiwnw omws oti h kybernhsh - - kai ayth thn ennoia exei h antallagh apocewn mesa sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph- - lambanei ypoch ths oles tis apoceis, oles tis idees, oles tis protaseis, oi opoies katatiqentai. Katatiqentai protaseis dhmosia, sto dhmosio dialogo. Einai dynaton na fantastei kaneis oti den katatiqentai kai protaseis sto plaisio ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, enos organoy, poy tis teleytaies ebdomades, exei asxolhqei kat` epanalhch, opws einai fysiko, me th dieqnh oikonomia kai tis epiptwseis ths sthn Ellada;

TSIOYFOS: Den rwthsa ayto. H erwthsh htan: H kybernhsh ejetazei to endexomeno na sygkerasei tis diaforetikes protaseis poy yparxoyn mesa stoys kolpoys ths, protaseis poy einai apo th mia pleyra me metra enisxyshs kata twn asqenesterwn kai apo thn allh me anaptyjiaka metra. Skopeyei, skeftetai na ta syndyasei, na ta sygkerasei ayta ta dyo pragmata; Ayto rwthsa.

ANTWNAROS: To paroysiazete me ena sxhmatiko tropo, o opoios den antapokrinetai sthn pragmatikothta.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na mas ejhghsete giati taytizete, mallon baptizete to programma diaswshs twn trapezwn kai ths kerdoforias toys ws programma sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias; Apo poy kai ws poy oi trapezes taytizontai me thn ellhnikh oikonomia prwton kai deyteron, pws exei apodeixqei mexri twra oti h enisxysh twn trapezwn shmainei oti qa paei kai kalytera h oikonomia kai kat` epektash kai to biotiko epipedo ths pleiochfias toy laoy. Mexri twra anebaine h kerdoforia twn trapezwn, alla megalwnan oi koinwnikes anisothtes. Ara, h kybernhsh ayto poy kanei apla einai oti den paradexetai oti ayto poy kanei einai apla na sthrizei thn kerdoforia twn trapezwn.

ANTWNAROS: Den diaqetw, dystyxws, epanw moy kamia syskeyh h opoia qa moy epetrepe na energopoihsw osa eipa prin apo deka lepta gia na sas ta epanalabw. Sas eipa kai xqes --to epanalambanw kai shmera-- oti mexri xqes legate ki eseis oti dinontai 28 disekatommyria eyrw stis trapezes. Den dinontai 28 disekatommyria eyrw stis trapezes.

KAKALHS: Giati (den akoygetai) stis trapezes; Sxedio gia th swthria twn trapezwn den einai;

ANTWNAROS: Einai synoliko sxedio sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias.

KAKALHS: (Den akoygetai) tis trapezes me thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Ayto kanei h kybernhsh kai taytizetai me tis trapezes.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw, loipon: H ellhnikh oikonomia, to ellhniko Dhmosio, den ektamieyei xrhmata gia na ta dwsei stis trapezes. Ekana mia poly analytikh, poly leptomereiakh paroysiash gia to ti shmainoyn akribws oi treis pylwnes, panw stoys opoioys akoympaei to sygkekrimeno sxedio.

KAKALHS: Mhn toys epanalambanete.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw, loipon. Se ligo qa kanei dhlwseis o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Na tis diabasete analytika kai an den katalabete, eimai eyxaristws sth diaqesh sas, wste argotera meta thn enhmerwsh na apanthsw thlefwnika kai stis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Dinontai gia na mporesoyn na dinoyn oi trapezes stegastika daneia. To mono poy kanane oi trapezes htan na stamathsoyn na diekperaiwnoyn ta stegastika daneia toy Organismoy Ergatikhs Katoikias. Leei: Den mporoyme allo. H kybernhsh to dexetai ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Den eiste kala enhmeros.

KAKALHS: To eipe h k. Petralia ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Den eiste kala enhmeros. Yparxoyn anakoinwseis shmera trapezwn poy anaferontai se ayto to qema.

KAKALHS: Ths Eqnikhs, as poyme, yparxei; Den exw enhmerwqei.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw, na enhmerwqeite prin moy kanete erwthseis.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na mas peite ti lene;

ANTWNAROS: Ejhghsa kai prohgoymenws oti akribws edw egkeitai ena tmhma, ena meros toy problhmatos. Oi trapezes, logw ths dieqnoys oikonomikhs katastashs, exoyn periorismenoys poroys sth diaqesh toys. Den toys dinei poroys to ellhniko Dhmosio. To ellhniko Dhmosio frontizei, wste opws ginetai se oles tis xwres ayth th stigmh, na ejeyreqoyn oi poroi. Den dinei lefta to ellhniko Dhmosio. Poso pio jekaqara na to pw;

KAKALHS: Yparxei kai allh aporia. Afoy htan ygies kai qwrakismeno to trapeziko systhma apenanti sth dieqnh xrhmatopistwtikh krish, giati na enisxyqei; Einai to prwto erwthma poy qetei o kosmos. Me dedomeno oti (den akoygetai) ta prohgoymena xronia.

ANTWNAROS: Den eimai se qesh na sas kanw mia analysh pws leitoyrgoyn oi trapezes ston kosmo. Oi trapezes daneizontai metajy toys. Otan aytos o opoios soy daneizei, den exei na soy daneisei, den exeis tropo na antimetwpiseis to sygkekrimeno problhma. Prepei, loipon, na ejeyreqoyn tropoi.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw to ejhs: Stis 22 Oktwbrioy, sto FEK, dhmosieyqhkan ypoyrgikes apofaseis twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn, basei twn opoiwn ayjanontai kata poly, ews diplasiazontai h triplasiazontai, oi amoibes twn epikefalhs asfalistikwn Tameiwn, toy IKA, toy OGA, twn eleyqerwn epaggelmatiwn. Qewreite oti se mia periodo krishs, opws ayth poy zoyme, se mia periodo poy eseis kanate - -opws lete- - aytes tis prospaqeies gia na mporesei na mhn yparjei problhma, tetoioy eidoys energeies symballoyn;

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw to sygkekrimeno qema. Qa enhmerwqw entos ths hmeras kai qa sas dwsw thn apanthsh. Akoma kalytera, mporeite na apeyqynqeite sthn k. Petralia. Eimai bebaios oti qa sas dwsei thn apanthsh.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete dyo syntomes erwthseis. H prwth einai h ejhs: An h para poly swsth arsh toy pleisthriasmoy gia ta perifhma 1.800 eyrw poy egine xqes, apotelei apo edw kai pera dedikasmeno, an exei leitoyrghsei ayto to nomoqethma toy orioy twn 20.000 eyrw hdh. Kai h deyterh einai, an einai etoimh h kybernhsh na mas pei thn apanthsh poy exoyme gia to sxedio Nimits, oson afora sto onoma twn Skopiwn.

ANTWNAROS: Oson afora sto prwto erwthma: H amesh antidrash ths Genikhs Grammateias Katanalwth shmatodotei akribws ton tropo me ton opoio antimetwpizei tetoies aparadektes praktikes h kybernhsh. Den einai apodektes praktikes oi opoies jefeygoyn apo tis ryqmiseis toy nomoy. Teleia kai payla.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Ara, einai dedikasmeno.

ANTWNAROS: Gia na xrhsimopoihsw th lejh ``dedikasmeno'', qa eprepe na eimai dikasths. Einai jekaqaro ayto to opoio sas lew. Oson afora sto deytero erwthma sas: H qesh ths kybernhshs diatypwqhke, xqes, me apolyth safhneia apo thn Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Ntora Mpakogiannh kata th synedriash ths Epitrophs Ejwterikwn kai Amynas ths Boylhs, gia tis ejelijeis sxetika me thn onomasia ths P.G.D.M. H k. Mpakogiannh, sas epanalambanw th dhlwsh ths, eipe epi lejei: ``Ws exei h protash den einai ikanopoihtikh se mia seira shmeiwn poy einai eite aporriptea, eite problhmatika, eite asafh. Mono me tis aparaithtes dieykriniseis kai diorqwseis, to keimeno ayto mporei na apotelesei bash gia thn epiteyjh lyshs''.

PALAIOLOGOS: Etsi kai alliws, to qema toy paketoy twn 28 dis qa to dieykrinisei o k. Alogoskoyfhs kai qa apanthsei kai ston k. Soyflia, giati einai polla ta erwthmata. Qelw na rwthsw, omws, gia kati allo: Pws krinei h kybernhsh thn energeia toy hgoymenoy ths Monhs Batopaidioy na parembei kai na xarakthrisei ws anepitrepth th dhmosiopoihsh ths apofashs poy aforoyse th limnh Bistwnida;

ANTWNAROS: Ws Ekproswpos ths kybernhshs den sxoliazw pote apofaseis h th leitoyrgia ths Dikaiosynhs. Gia thn kybernhsh, h leitoyrgia ths Dikaiosynhs einai sebasth.

PALAIOLOGOS: Giati kaqysterhse tote h dhmosiopoihsh ths apofashs ayths;

ANTWNAROS: Yparxei sxetikh analytikh anakoinwsh toy Ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs gi` ayto to qema sthn opoia kai sas parapempw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Tote, pws ermhneyete to gegonos oti sth xqesinh dhmoskophsh toy ANT-1 ths Metron Analysis to 61% twn erwthqentwn qewrei pws to qema ayto ths ypoqeshs Batopaidioy afora kai ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio gia dhmoskophseis.

TERZHS: Na epanelqw sto qema ths oikonomias, epishmainontas gia allh mia fora to sxolio moy to arxiko oti mallon h epixeirhmatologia sas - - den qelw na thn epanalabete- - den perna sthn koinh gnwmh. Dhladh, o k. Kakalhs me tis topoqethseis toy, nomizw oti ekfrazei pio ayqentika thn eikona poy exei h koinh gnwmh.

ANTWNAROS: Mporei o k. Kakalhs na pisteyei oti prepei na katarghqoyn oi trapezes. Ayto, emena den me briskei symfwno.

TERZHS: Ypoqetw oti mporei na briskei symfwnoys kapoioys Ellhnes poy xrwstoyn se aytes. Apo ekei kai pera, to erwthma einai to ejhs: Apo o,ti katalaba ayrio h kybernhsh qa paei me toys problhmatismoys, tis skeceis kai toys opoioys sxediasmoys sthn pro hmerhsias diatajews syzhthsh twn politikwn arxhgwn gia thn oikonomia kai oxi me kapoia metra ta opoia eseis o idios ta parapemcate gia meta to EKOFIN kai th Synodo Koryfhs;

ANTWNAROS: Thn pro hmerhsias diatajews syzhthsh sth Boylh, th zhthse h kybernhsh. Qa perimenete, loipon, ayrio na deite pws qa topoqethqei o Prwqypoyrgos, pws qa topoqethqoyn oi Ypoyrgoi sth syzhthsh poy qa ginei sth Boylh.

MANH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, anejarthta apo ayto to perifhmo sxedio sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, h kybernhsh apokleiei kathgorhmatika thn amesh anakoyfish twn eypaqwn koinwnikwn omadwn poy exoyn anagkh apo sthrijh, edw kai twra;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa eipa synolika.

MANH: Den moy to kanate poly kaqaro, xqes, ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw kamia proqesh na apantw stis erwthseis sas me ena ``nai'' h me ena ``oxi''. Den einai o tropos moy. Ta qemata einai synhqws poly pio synqeta kai prepei kapoios na kataballei thn prospaqeia poy apaiteitai kai apo thn pleyra moy na ta epejhgei kai apo thn pleyra sas na antilambaneste osa qelw na pw.

MANH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, dexqhkate ena mparaz erwthsewn xqes.

ANTWNAROS: Kaqoloy mparaz erwthsewn. Yparxei mia eyxaristh paroysia olwn mas, apo thn pleyra sas kai apo thn pleyra moy, sthn aiqoysa enhmerwshs.

MANH: Xqes dexqhkate, loipon, ena mparaz erwthsewn me aformh kai tis plhrofories poy eidan to fws ths dhmosiothtas. Gia thn ejtra syntajh, gia ta epidomata k.t.l. Mas parapemcate kai sthn k. Petralia, sthn anakoinwsh poy ekane, alla apanthsh oysiastika den phrame.

ANTWNAROS: H apanthsh doqhke. Mporei na mhn htan ayth poy qelete na akoysete h poy den qelete na akoysete, alla apanthsh phrate.

MANH: Oti h oikonomikh krish einai se ejelijh, h syzhthsh synexizetai kai ta metra den exoyn lhfqei akoma.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa eipa.

TERZHS: Isxyei h dhlwsh toy k. Alogoskoyfh ejw apo to Megaro Majimoy xqes kai h dikh sas, oti ayta apexoyn ths pragmatikothtas.

ANTWNAROS: H dhlwsh toy k. Alogoskoyfh bebaiws isxyei sto akeraio. O k. Alogoskoyfhs eipe oti an orismena apo ayta ta opoia anagrafontai ston Typo efarmostoyn, oxi mono den qa bohqhsoyn, alla qa periplejoyn kai qa kanoyn thn katastash akomh pio dyskolh. Ayto isxyei. Den exw kamia dyskolia. Sas to eipa kai egw allwste.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh einai yper ths xalarwshs toy Symfwnoy Staqerothtas ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs; Kai o Prwqypoyrgos - -kai h kybernhsh- - me poia qesh qa paei sta koryfaia organa poy qa synedriazoyn tis epomenes hmeres;

ANTWNAROS: Molis prin apo liges hmeres topoqethqhke o Prwqypoyrgos dhmosia. Isxyei sto akeraio h dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

KAKALHS: Wraia. Me dedomeno, loipon, oti den qa allajei - -einai topoqethsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy ayth- - o Proypologismos, den qa allajei h forologikh politikh, gia poia metra sthrijhs kai prostasias twn oikonomika asqenesterwn mporei na mila h kybernhsh otan ayto akribws, o Proypologismos kai h forologikh politikh, eggyatai nea barh;

ANTWNAROS: Biazeste na katalhjete se symperasmata ta opoia egw den symmerizomai.

Sas eyxaristw.

" H epomenh enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn qa pragmatopoihqei th Deytera, 3 Noembrioy.

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