Greek Government Press Briefing, 08-09-02

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 2 Septembrioy 2008

Ariqmos Deltioy: 156773244

Ekdosh 1

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YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 2 Septembrioy 2008

Xairete.

Qa hqela na kanw dyo anakoinwseis:

" Ayrio, stis 11:00, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Eqnikhs Paideias kai Qrhskeymatwn.

" Apo to PASOK proanaggelqhke dhqen apokalych meizonos politikoy qematos. Katelhje na einai h megalyterh politikh gkafa toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs epi proedrias Giwrgoy Papandreoy. Anarwtietai kaneis, poios h poioi paresyran ton k. Papandreoy se mia tetoia gkafa poy prosbalei ton idio kai fysika thn koinoboyleytikh mas Dhmokratia. Anarwtietai epishs kaneis, pws einai dynaton ena komma poy diekdikei na kybernhsei ton topo na proxeirologei toso kraygalea. H elleich politikhs odhgei diarkws to PASOK se kinhseis panikoy kai fqhnoy entypwsiasmoy.

Eimai sth diaqesh sas gia erwthseis kai dieykrinistikes epi toy qematos poy proekyce me th xqesinh ``kataggelia'' toy PASOK kai gia opoiodhpote allo qema qelete.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, akoysame thn anakoinwsh poy kanate, wstoso yparxoyn pragmatika mia seira apo erwthmata. Gia paradeigma: Ti doyleia eixe h k. Patrianakoy mesa sth diadikasia; Ti doyleia ekane h k. Patrianakoy; Giati phgainoerxotane kai giati epairne ta chfodeltia twn anqrwpwn oi opoioi chfizan; To ena einai ayto. To deytero einai: Giati o k. Agorastos ta ebaze sthn tseph toy; Kai to trito: Eseis, otan qelete na peite se kapoion ``grafeis katw apo th grammh'', toy lete ``eisai ektos grammhs'', kyrie Ypoyrge;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete ki allo erwthma h ayta einai;

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Katarxhn, ayta.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas ejhghsw, loipon, tis diadikasies ths chfoforias ths hmeras ekeinhs. Yparxoyn odhgies poy edoqhsan stoys boyleytes olwn twn kommatwn apo thn prohgoymenh kiolas hmera, kai tis opoies odhgies exw edw mazi moy. Den qa sas tis diabasw gia na mhn sas koyrasw. Qa sas pw, omws, to kyrio nohma twn odhgiwn aytwn: Kaqe boyleyths epairne se fakelo, mazi me tis odhgies poy toy elegan to pws symplhrwnetai ena chfodeltio orqa -kai ennooyme orqa gia na mporei na perasei apo to mhxanhma anagnwrishs, to skaner, opws synhqisame na to leme- kai oi odhgies aytes einai arketa safeis. To kaqe chfodeltio htan typwmeno apo th mhxanografikh yphresia ths Boylhs. Sthn ektypwsh, se mia selida poy htan to chfodeltio mpros  pisw yphrxan ta erwthmata gia ta pros anaqewrhsh arqra. Sto panw meros ths selidas yphrxe to onoma toy kaqe boyleyth, typwmeno epishs apo th mhxanografikh yphresia, dhladh den htan keno gia na symplhrwsei o kaqenas to onoma toy. Kai epishs se kaqe selida (kai stis dyo selides) yphrxe xwros gia ypografh toy boyleyth sto katw meros kai xwros gia thn ypografh toy chfolekth. Exw ferei mazi moy ola ta praktika ekeinhs ths hmeras kai sth synexeia, otan teleiwsoyme to briefing, qa sas deijw akribws to kaqe chfodeltio opoy exei ektypwmeno to onoma toy boyleyth apo to mhxanografiko ths Boylhs. Exei ariqmo, enan ariqmo gia kaqe chfodeltio, deytero stoixeio dhladh elegxoy toy chfodeltioy. Exei xwro ypografhs toy boyleyth, xwro ypografhs toy chfolekth. To idio akribws kai sthn pisw selida toy: Typwmena to onoma toy boyleyth, o ariqmos, xwros ypografhs boyleyth, xwros ypografhs chfolekth. Epipleon, to kaqe chfodeltio einai prwtotypo, exontas diagrammish apo th mhxanografikh yphresia ths Boylhs, to opoio shmainei: Ean kapoios boyleyths exane to chfodeltio toy kai to fwtotypoyse kapoios allos, h fwtotypia den mporoyse na perasei apo to mhxanhma skaner. As doyme ligo th diadikasia. Ekaleito enas boyleyths apo to proedreio ths Boylhs na chfisei. Eprepe na exei symplhrwsei ta tetragwnakia me stayro kai me xrwma sygkekrimeno, mayro h mple, opws lene oi odhgies. Phgaine sto xwro poy einai synhqws h chfodoxos, twra den exoyme kalph giati einai anoixth h diadikasia, antiqetws eixame mprosta apo toys stenografoys ths Boylhs (ejw apo ta kagkela opws exete prosejei osoi exete paei sth Boylh) dyo boyleytes. O enas htan o k. Mpoygas kai o allos htan o k. Pleyrhs, boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias kai toy LAOS antistoixws. Oi dyo boyleytes epairnan to chfodeltio kai to edinan se dyo alloys boyleytes poy htan pisw sto xwro twn stenografwn, pisw apo ta kagkela. Aytoi oi dyo boyleytes sto xwro ekeino htan o k. Agorastos ths Neas Dhmokratias kai h k. Amanatidoy toy SYRIZA. Oi dyo aytoi boyleytes edinan to chfodeltio se dyo texnikoys ths etaireias me thn opoia h Boylh synergazetai apo to 1998, prokeimenoy aytoi na to eisagagoyn sto skaner. Epiblepwn twn dyo texnikwn kai ths diadikasias, htan dieyqynths ths Boylhs, anwteros ypallhlos ths Boylhs. Parontes sto xwro htan eji stenografoi ths Boylhs. Qa anaferqw en taxei stoys ypoloipoys parontes, opws gia paradeigma stoys 186 boyleytes, stoys 75 koinoboyleytikoys syntaktes kai fysika stis thleoptikes kameres ths Boylhs poy metedidan zwntana th diadikasia mias anoixths chfoforias. Ean to mhxanhma skaner den dexotan to chfodeltio -kai den to dexotan gia dyo h treis logoys, o enas logos giati htan tsalakwmeno- einai safes stis odhgies tis opoies qa sas dwsw sth synexeia, toy proedreioy ths Boylhs poy doqhkan stoys boyleytes apo thn prohgoymenh hmera, oti an ena chfodeltio einai tsalakwmeno den qa pernaei sto mhxanhma skaner. Tote to mhxanhma to ebgaze ejw. Ofeile, loipon, na eidopoihqei o boyleyths kai eidopoieito apo toys paristamenoys sth diadikasia h apo synadelfoys boyleytes kai anazhteito. Ypenqymizw -kai yparxei kai sta praktika ths Boylhs katagegrammeno- oti o proedros toy Swmatos alla kai to keimeno twn odhgiwn, anefere oti den qa eprepe na apomakrynqoyn oi boyleytes apo thn aiqoysa gia tetoioy eidoys tyxon texnika zhthmata. Eixe pei epi lejei o proedros toy Swmatos oti se periptwsh laqoys kata th symplhrwsh twn chfodeltiwn h qa ginetai amesws prosklhsh toy boyleyth kai diorqwsh se synennohsh me toys synadelfoys chfolektes kai monografh toys h an einai polles oi periptwseis laqwn, qa ginei diorqwsh afoy oloklhrwqei h anagnwrish twn chfodeltiwn basei sxetikoy katalogoy poy qa doqei apo ton ypologisth. Parathrhqhkan, opws plhroforhqhka ereynwntas thn ypoqesh, ta ejhs problhmata: To prwto htan oti orismenoi boyleytes den eixan ypogracei kai stis dyo pleyres. Eixan symplhrwsei to chfodeltio toys kai anti na ypogracoyn kai sthn mpros pleyra kai thn pisw, ypogracan se mia apo tis dyo. To chfodeltio ayto den ginotan dekto apo to skaner. Ekaleito, me th diadikasia poy anefera prohgoymenws kai thn perigracate peripoy kai eseis, o boyleyths ean htan sthn aiqoysa h ton ecaxnan oi boyleytes stoys opoioys anaferqhkate kai alloi ektos aiqoyshs, na epanelqei, na ypogracei sthn pleyra ekeinh poy den eixe ypogracei kai tote edideto kai pali to chfodeltio na perasei sto skaner. Deytero laqos poy mporei na eixe ginei: Ektos twn grammwn toy tetragwnoy, qa mporoyse na eixe bgei se megalo xwro h apolhjh toy stayroy. Kai se ayth thn periptwsh to skaner den dexotan to chfodeltio. Eprepe, loipon, na klhqei o boyleyths kai tote afoy den mporoyse na ginei diorqwsh panw sto chfodeltio, giati opws eipa einai prwtotypo, ariqmhmeno, grammeno to onoma toy, eprepe na xrhsimopoihsei dyo ek twn ypoloipwn prwtotypwn poy toy eixan doqei sto fakelo toy apo thn prohgoymenh ws efedrika. Dhladh, o kaqe boyleyths eixe tria prwtotypa chfodeltia sth diaqesh toy, mhxanografhmena, me to onoma toy epanw grammeno, me ariqmo sygkekrimeno, diagrammismena gia na mhn mporoyn na antigrafoyn h na fwtotyphqoyn, pantws na mhn mporoyn na xrhsimopoihqoyn -kai epanalambanw- ektypwmena ola ayta kai to onoma klp. Sthn periptwsh ayth katestrefeto to chfodeltio kai petiotan kai o boyleyths ofeile na symplhrwsei apo thn arxh ena ek twn dyo ypoloipwn prwtotypwn poy eixe, dioti alliws den qa mporoyse na chfisei. Den qa to dexotan to skaner. Ean ypoqesoyme, opws akoysa kapoies ypoqeseis, oti epairne enas kai ekei poy yphrxe ``oxi'' esbhne to stayro kai ebaze ``nai'' h to antistrofo, ayto kai pali den qa mporoyse na ginei apodekto apo to skaner dioti h hlektronikh yposthrijh poy yparxei -kai epanalambanw se antistoixes chfofories to 1998, to 2000, to 2001, to 2008 apo thn idia panta synergazomenh me th Boylh etaireia- exei akribws aytes tis prodiagrafes. Gia na ginei, loipon, h opoiadhpote laqroxeiria, qa eprepe na syntrexoyn synqhkes, oi opoies akomh kai oles na synetrexan, qa htan adynato na allajei h chfos enos boyleyth. Den qa mporoyse se kamia periptwsh na allajei kaneis to chfodeltio, kaqoson, opws eipa einai kai onomastiko kai diagrammismeno kai typwmeno to onoma stis dyo pleyres h ypografh toy boyleyth alla kai h ypografh toy chfolekth. Dhladh, chfodeltio poy parelhfqh apo toys chfolektes dyo diaforetikwn kommatwn, chfodeltio poy diabibasthke se dyo alloys boyleytes, dyo diaforetikwn kommatwn, chfodeltio poy doqhke se dyo texnikoys ths etaireias poy synergazetai h Boylh kai epiblefqhke h diadikasia apo dieyqynth ths Boylhs, qa eprepe na exei th synainesh toylaxiston epta proswpwn. Alla as ypoqesoyme oti yphrxe ayth h synainesh boyleytwn Neas Dhmokratias, LAOS kai SYRIZA. Ti eidoys diaforopoihsh qa mporoyse na exei ginei se ena chfodeltio otan h opoiadhpote allagh panw se ayto den qa ginotan apodekth apo to mhxanhma; Ena allo shmeio to opoio prepei na shmeiwsw einai oti ta chfodeltia ola doqhkan sth dhmosiothta molis mish wra meta to peras ths chfoforias. Etsi, eseis, ws dhmosiografoi, eite sta thleoptika mesa poy ergazeste, sta radiofwna h stis efhmerides, eixate th dynatothta na diapistwsete pws kai ti chfise kaqe boyleyths. Kata synepeia, loipon, milame gia mia anoixth, plhrws diafanh diadikasia, h opoia den epidexotan kanenos eidoys laqroxeiria gia oloys toys texnikoys aytoys oroys poy sas epanelaba oti yparxoyn sth diadikasia ayth edw kai deka akribws xronia. Parakalw alles dieykrinistikes erwthseis.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: An moy epitrepete, den moy apanthsate h k. Patrianakoy giati briskotan mesa sth diadikasia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H k. Patrianakoy briskotan opws kai oi ypoloipoi 186 boyleytes. Den htan mesa sth diadikasia, htan ekei ws anaplhrwths grammateas ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados. Ean yphrxe problhma me chfodeltio boyleyth ths Neas Dhmokratias, epwmizotan thn eyqynh na anazhthsei ton boyleyth ean men htan mesa sthn aiqoysa h ejw, na toy zhthsei na epanelqei, prokeimenoy na diorqwqei to opoio problhma. Kai ta problhmata poy sas eipa oti yphrxan htan kyriws dyo typwn: H kapoios stayros htan pio megalos apo to tetragwno, ektos grammwn, ektos diagrammisewn h elleich ypografhs kai stis dyo pleyres. Se kaqe periptwsh omws, katalabainete oti otan exoyn dhmioyrghqei epta diaforetikes synqhkes syn thn texnikh synqhkh enos programmatos poy exei doylecei gia antistoixes doyleies ths Boylhs -ennow gia anaqewrhsh Syntagmatos- epi deka xronia, einai pantelws adynato na ginei h opoiadhpote allagh sto chfodeltio. Den qa mporoyse dhladh, an eseis ypoqesoyme eisaste boyleyths kai chfizate, na parei kapoios to chfodeltio sas na to alloiwsei kai ayto na perasei apo to skaner. Ean pernoyse kai eixate chfisei ki eseis, tote antilambaneste oti qa briskane dyo chfodeltia me to onoma Kalogeropoyloy. Den qa mporoysan na breqoyn, oytws h allws, giati eseis eixate sta xeria sas ta tria prwtotypa. Akomh kai an to eixate xasei to ena prwtotypo apo ta tria, akomh kai an eixate xasei kai ta dyo, den qa mporoysan se kamia periptwsh na emfanistoyn sto mhxanhma skaner kai sth synexeia sto apotelesma dyo h tria chfodeltia dika sas. Epanalambanw, einai poly shmantiko: Typwmeno to onoma, typwmenh h eklogikh perifereia apo to mhxanografiko ths Boylhs, typwmena ta shmeia ypografwn chfolektwn kai boyleytwn kai stis dyo pleyres, typwmenos ariqmos chfodeltioy sygkekrimenos, enas kai monadikos gia kaqe boyleyth, diagrammismeno to chfodeltio wste na einai prwtotypo kai na mhn mporei na fwtotyphqei kai na perasei h fwtotypia. Ayth einai olh h diadikasia, einai aplh gia kaqe polith o opoios einai kaloproairetos. Einai diadikasia anoixth, mporei na thn elegjei akomh kai shmera o opoiosdhpote, lambanontas sta xeria toy ta praktika ths Boylhs, blepontas kai tis eikones ths thleorashs, oi opoies den apodeiknyoyn tipota, den dinoyn kan endeijeis. Chfofories ths Boylhs exete parakoloyqhsei polles, eimai bebaios, exete megalh empeiria sth dhmosiografia kai eseis kai polloi alloi synadelfoi sas se ayth thn aiqoysa. To oti oi boyleytes den einai kaqismenoi oloi sta edrana toys en tajei, alla kykloforoyn sthn aiqoysa ths Boylhs, boyleytes olwn twn kommatwn, nomizw oti einai kati poy exete diapistwsei. Einai, loipon, to PASOK poy exase kai to teleytaio ixnos sobarothtas toy me ayth thn ahqh epiqesh xqes kata twn koinoboyleytikwn qesmwn.

KAKALHS: Apo thn epistamenh kai ejonyxistikh ereyna poy fainetai oti kanate, mporeite na mas peite se posa chfodeltia parathrhqhke problhma kai klhqhkan oi boyleytes na ta diorqwsoyn eite giati den eixan balei thn ypografh eite giati eixan laqos symplhrwsei ta koytakia; Posoi htan oi boyleytes, posa chfodeltia htan me laqos tropo symplhrwmena kai klhqhkan oi boyleytes na ta symplhrwsoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An ennoeite laqos symplhrwmena, ennoeite na mhn exei thn ypografh.

KAKALHS: H ypografh h na einai sto laqos koytaki.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H na mhn exei thn ypografh h na exei ginei kapoia moytzoyra h na exei bgei o stayros ektos grammwn. Oi periptwseis aytes mporoyn na diapistwqoyn mono an parakoloyqhsei kapoios synolika th synedriash, h opoia bebaiws metadoqhke zwntana apo to kanali ths Boylhs, akoygontas ekeinh thn wra ta onomata twn boyleytwn poy anazhtoynto, prokeimenoy na allajoyn, na diorqwsoyn ean eixan kanei laqos kai ennow na exoyn symplhrwsei ektos grammwn to chfodeltio toys h ean den eixan balei ypografh. Se kaqe periptwsh, o ariqmos twn boyleytwn poy chfisan einai gnwstos sta praktika ths Boylhs. To ti chfhse o kaqe boyleyths einai epishs gnwsto. Anakoinwqhke thn idia kiolas hmera. O opoiosdhpote boyleyths diapistwne -sas ejhghsa oti den qa mporoyse na ginei se kamia periptwsh allagh, me kanena tropo texniko- oti eixe ginei to opoiodhpote laqos sto diko toy chfodeltio, einai bebaio oti qa eixe kataggelqei ekeinh thn hmera. Alla, janalew, gia pollosth fora oti den yphrxe kanenos eidoys dynatothta  kai sas to ejhghsa analytika- na ginei opoiadhpote parembash se onomastiko chfodeltio, diagrammismeno chfodeltio, prwtotypo chfodeltio, ariqmhmeno chfodeltio to opoio eixe epanw, pera twn ypografwn toy boyleyth kai tis ypografes twn chfolektwn.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla den rwthsate ta stelexh poy htan armodia apo thn Koinoboyleytikh Omada, thn k. Patrianakoy poy eipate kai alla, se poses periptwseis apo thn ereyna poy kanate, estw twra, yphrxe laqos sta chfodeltia, den eixan ypografh, eixan moytzoyres h den jerw ti allo kai den rwthsate se poses periptwseis anaklhqhkan ayta ta chfodeltia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei kamia ajia to erwthma kai qa sas ejhghsw giati den exei ajia. Dioti as ypoqesoyme oti...

KAKALHS: H proypoqesh gia na alloiwqoyn ta chfodeltia, gia na erqoyn pisw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na moy peite ton tropo me ton opoio qa alloiwqoyn;

KAKALHS: Mono poy sto chfodeltio, etsi opws einai typwmeno profanws diasfalizei to adiablhto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Malista. Ara, pws qa alloiwqei;

KAKALHS: Alla apo th stigmh poy pairnetai pisw tote arxizei to allo...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prosejte: Apo th stigmh poy lambanei kapoios to chfodeltio pisw gia na to ypogracei, mhn jexnate oti exei epanw, peran ths dikhs toy ypografhs, kai thn ypografh toy chfolekth poy htan ejw apo to shmeio twn stenografwn kai twn mhxanhmatwn. Ara, loipon, to chfodeltio poy qa epestrefe, qa eprepe na einai ypogegrammeno apo ton chfolekth. Qa eprepe dhladh, enas boyleyths poy chfize na janapaei na chfisei deyterh fora. Htan dyo chfolektes epanalambanw, enas ths Neas Dhmokratias kai enas toy LAOS. Mesa htan dyo boyleytes, enas ths Neas Dhmokratias kai enas toy SYRIZA. Ean enas apo toys boyleytes diapistwne oti kapoios phge gia deyterh fora na chfisei, akomh kai an mporoyse na perasei apo aytoys toys tesseris, antilambaneste oti den qa pernoyse apo to mhxanhma, dioti to mhxanhma eixe hdh katagracei thn chfo toy. To mhxanhma kategrafe thn egkyrh chfo, oti dhladh to chfodeltio einai orqws symplhrwmeno me tis ypografes poy prepei epanw, alliws to aperripte. Afoy to aperripte eprepe na doyn poio einai to laqos. Ean men to laqos htan moytzoyra, tote anakoinwnotan stoys chfolektes oti o boyleyths aytos eixe kanei laqos kai prepei na janachfisei. Kai htan safes ston kaqe enan apo toys dyo chfolektes ths Neas Dhmokratias kai toy LAOS, poios boyleyths qa epairne to kainoyrio kai qa eferne to symplhrwmeno kainoyrio. Ean htan aplh elleich ypografhs, den xreiazotan na perasei pali apo toys chfolektes poy eixan hdh ypogracei. Alla exontas hdh ypogracei kapoios den mporoyse na parapoihsei kai thn ypografh aytwn kai to chfodeltio kapoioy alloy. Katalabate;

TSIOYFOS: Syggnwmh, alla yparxei kai kapoia allh ejhghsh, ayth thn opoia epikaleitai to PASOK kai leei oti prin ftasei sto mhxanhma to chfodeltio pernage apo ton k. Agorasto. O k. Agorastos to eblepe an htan entos ``grammhs'' kai oxi grammwn, ``entos grammhs'', entos kommatikhs grammhs ennoei to PASOK kai an htan ``ektos grammhs'' to ebgaze sthn akrh. Kai erxotan meta to allo chfodeltio poy legetai oti eferne h k. Patrianakoy. Ayto kataggellei to PASOK. Oti osa htan ``ektos grammhs'' den phgainan sto mhxanhma kai phgainan meta ta kainoyria.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto, loipon, qa prepei na mas odhghsei se ena symperasma asfales: Oti dhladh, oloi oi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias -kai oi 152- chfisan akribws me ton idio tropo. Anazhthste, loipon, ta chfodeltia na diapistwsete h gia na mhn koyrazeste na deite ola ta chfodeltia, anazhthste ta dhmosieymata poy eseis gracate. Poioi boyleytes chfisan yper enos arqroy, poioi chfisan kata klp. Antilambaneste oti aytapodeikta einai poly aplo ayto poy sas lew. Den xreiazetai na deite ola ta praktika poy einai kai ogkwdh. Deite ta dhmosieymata poy eseis gracate kai qa diapistwsete oti yphrxan boyleytes poy chfisan diaforetika ap` o,ti chfisan alloi boyleytes.

TSIOYFOS: Jerete, den doqhke shmasia na koitajei ti chfise o kaqenas, giati etsi ki alliws ta ypo anaqewrhsh arqra htan mono tria. Gia ta ypoloipa, ta opoia etsi ki alliws den qa ginotan anaqewrhsh se ayta, den koitaje kaneis na dei ti chfise. Ayto pisteyw oti sthn prokeimenh periptwsh prepei na... gi` ayto kai den qymamai kai dhmosieymata to ti chfise o kaqenas tote. Den jerw an...

ROYSOPOYLOS: An anazhthsete omws ta dhmosieymata, qa deite pws chfise o kaqenas.

TSIOYFOS: (Den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me eikasies -antilambanomai oti h dhmosiografia merikes fores mporei na ginei kai me eikasies- h politikh, omws, den mporei na ginei, toylaxiston se dhmosio epipedo, sth dhmosia sfaira, eidika se ena toso sobaro qema. Egw, loipon, ayta poy sas lew einai para poly sygkekrimena kai prokalw ton opoiondhpote apo to PASOK na bgei shmera kai na mas pei ti ap` ola ayta ta opoia eipa, den isxyei. Ti dhladh einai ayto poy den isxyei, ti diaforetiko egine apo tis chfofories twn prohgoymenwn etwn gia anaqewrhtea arqra toy Syntagmatos. Htan diaforetikh h diadikasia; Htan diaforetiko to skaner; Htan diaforetikh h etaireia; Htan diaforetikos o tropos twn asfalistikwn dikleidwn; Milame gia toylaxiston epta asfalistikes dikleides. Aytes oi epta asfalistikes dikleides den espasan apo kanenan kai oyte egine apopeira na spasoyn apo kanenan. To PASOK, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, proxeirologei. Proxeirologei exontas xasei kaqe politikh elpida, dhmioyrgei entypwseis oi opoies katalhgoyn se gkafes olkhs.

KATSABOY: Hqela mia dieykrinish. Eipate oti ta chfodeltia poy den ta dexetai to skaner katastrefontai. Dhladh, ayto shmainei oti den yparxoyn pleon h sth diaqesh ths Boylhs h twn boyleytwn ekeinh th stigmh. Ti problepei h diadikasia gi` ayta; Dhladh, exei kapoios prosbash twra se ekeina ta chfodeltia; Exoyn th morfh akyroy h exoyn petaxtei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ena chfodeltio otan ginetai anoixth h chfoforia -den milame gia kleisth chfoforia se kalph, opoy fylassontai ta chfodeltia gia na mporei kaqeis ana pasa stigmh na diapistwsei ean yparxei opoiadhpote paratypia panw se ayto- milame gia mia anoixth diadikasia h opoia ekeinh thn wra mpainei ston hlektroniko ypologisth kai apofainetai o ypologisths gia thn egkyrothta h oxi. Apo th stigmh, loipon, poy ena chfodeltio htan egkyro, perase. Dhladh, otan leme ``egkyro'' ennooyme na einai entajei panw sto chfodeltio oles aytes oi synqhkes poy sas eipa prohgoymenws. Ayta einai ta chfodeltia poy krathqhkan. As ypoqesoyme oti egw ekana ena laqos kai phra pisw ena chfodeltio, giati eixa symplhrwsei ena koytaki laqos kai eprepe na to diorqwsw, me thn ennoia toy na ftiajw pio swsta to stayro sto koyti ayto, gia na pernaei apo to skaner. Eseis ti qa to kanate sth qesh moy; Qa phgainate na to dwsete sth Boylh; Einai diko moy mexri ekeinh thn wra poy qa paei sthn hlektronikh chfodoxo. Dinw to chfodeltio poy einai kala symplhrwmeno, pernaei kai einai egkyrh h chfos moy, diaforetika den qa chfiza kaqoloy. Ean dhladh yphrxe kati antistoixo, den qa yphrxe boyleyths poy na chfize. Kai edw fanhke oti chfisan oi parontes boyleytes kai alloi boyleytes me epistolikh chfo.

FANIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kanate ontws mia emperistatwmenh analysh. Liges, isws, einai oi apories. Omws paramenoyn kapoia erwthmata. To ena einai ti rolo epaize h tseph toy k. Agorastoy, ta ebaze sthn tseph toy, to eidame sto binteo. An qelete na apanthsete se ayto kai qa sas pw meta to epomeno.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan ejhgw mia diadikasia h opoia den mporei na einai diablhth se kanena stadio ths, to an o k. Agorastos ebale ena xarti sthn tseph toy h ena shmeiwma h otidhpote allo, ayto exei mhdenikh ajia gia th diadikasia. Qa eixe ajia ean ginotan chfoforia se kleisth kalph kai blepate enan opoiondhpote boyleyth na bazei sthn tseph toy ena chfodeltio kai na bgazei apo thn allh tseph ena allo kai na to rixnei mesa. Epanalambanw gia pollosth fora -ginomai koyrastikos endexomenws- epta synqhkes, epta proswpa toylaxiston syn twn eji stenografwn alla epta proswpa ta opoia einai apo diaforetika kommata, texnikoi etaireias kai dieyqynths ths Boylhs poy htan ekei gia na diapistwnoyn th diadikasia kai enas hlektronikos ypologisths me ena programma to opoio einai apolytws adiablhto. Den yparxei tipota epi ths oysias. Gi` ayto kai milhsa gia fqhnes entypwseis toy PASOK. Fqhnes entypwseis poy edrazontai se pragmata ta opoia den apodeiknyoyn, den deixnoyn kan tipote.

FANIDHS: Na sas kanw to deytero erwthma. Kyrie Ekproswpe, eseis eiste poly enhmerwmenos kai poly pio etoimologos qa elega apo ton kyrio Agorasto, o opoios edeije na aifnidiazetai. Dhladh stis prwtes erwthseis poy toy eqesan synadelfoi, hqele na dei to binteo. Qymize, as poyme, diaithth epopth grammwn poy qelei na dei an eftaige h htan kapoios ofsaint. Kati tetoio. (Den akoygetai)... to binteo toy agwna. To deytero pali aifnidiasthke. Milage shmera to prwi pali sta kanalia gia ektos grammhs toy entypoy. Einai fanero oti milame gia ektos politikhs grammhs, ekeinos elege gia ta entypa. Twra, s  ayto den jerw an exete na dwsete kapoia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw apo poy einai fanero ayto poy lete. Giati apanthsa ston kyrio Tsioyfo prohgoymenws kai sas eipa pws sas proskalw na diabasete ta chfodeltia ena pros ena.

FANIDHS: De sas amfisbhtw. Lew oti yphrje amhxania apo ton kyrio Agorasto. Ayto lew.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw kai exete ta chfodeltia sth diaqesh sas apo th Boylh- kai sth synexeia qa meinw mazi sas gia na sas deijw kai to kaqena jexwrista, etsi opws exoyn perilhfqei sta praktika ths Boylhs: Oti an yphrxe opoiodhpote chfodeltio symplhrwmeno me stayro h me X , o,ti ebaze o kaqe boyleyths ektos twn grammwn toy tetragwnoy, twn diagrammisewn gia na eimaste apolytws akribeis, tote ayto den qa ginotan dekto apo to skaner. Me kalopisth diaqesh, alla kai me kakopisth diaqesh-de milw se sas proswpika twra, paroti sas koitazw-prepei kapoios na diapistwsei oti se ayth thn chfoforia, opws kai se oles tis chfofories ths Boylhs, oi synqhkes einai tetoies poy den mporoyse na ginei kanenos eidoys parembash, kanenos eidoys laqroxeiria. Den yphrxe sth skech kai sto endiaferon ths Neas Dhmokratias. Antilambanomai oti to PASOK exontas sto parelqon ``polloys skeletoys sto ntoylapi'' -akoma apo to apwtato parelqon toy '85 me ta xrwmatista chfodeltia mexri to prosfato parelqon diabasame oloi, eseis ta gracate, tis kataggelies stelexwn kai sth neolaia toy alla kai sto komma gia eklogikes diadikasies- nomizei oti leitoyrgoyn ta pragmata etsi. Den leitoyrgoyn ta pragmata etsi sthn koinoboyleytikh mas Dhmokratia.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exete sto komma sas ``baqy laryggi'' kai an exete, sas apasxolei oti mporei na bgoyn kai tyxon alla qemata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw ti ennoeite otan ypobalete ayto to erwthma. An qelete na to dieykrinisete ligo perissotero.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: ``Baqy laryggi'', kapoion o opoios apokalyptei pragmata apo to komma sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws; Ti pragma apekalyfqh, dhladh;

KALOGEROPOYLOY: To binteo. Eseis lete th dikh sas ekdoxh, to PASOK leei mia allh ekdoxh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa yposthrijw oyte egw, oyte o Proedros ths Boylhs oti to kanali ths Boylhs exei tis ekatontades xiliades qeates. Alla, kapoies dekades xiliades qeates exei. Den qa yposthrijw, epishs, oti sto kanali ths Boylhs kleinoyn tis kameres otan ginontai synedriaseis. Einai anoiktes kai tis blepete. Den qa yposthrijw, epishs, oti ta arxeia toy kanalioy ths Boylhs katastrefontai, alloiwnontai, montarontai, giati paramenoyn ws exoyn. Kata synepeia, h ``apokalych'' toy PASOK me ena binteo to opoio den deixnei tipota apolytws kai prospaqei na dhmioyrghsei entypwseis, den einai para mia aplh diadikasia poy kai eseis, an qelete shmera na pate sth Boylh kai na parete olh ekeinh th synedriash se ena CD-ROM, h Boylh qa sas th dwsei. Ayto, problhqhke se dekades xiliades kosmo. Ara, loipon, mhn anazhtoyme diafora fantasmata ekei poy den yparxoyn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh perigracate mia acogh -kai apo pleyras hlektronikhs, alla kai apo kaqe allhs texnikhs pleyras- diadikasia, wstoso omws, eseis. O k. Agorastos apo thn pleyra toy den htan se qesh shmera, se diadoxika erwthmata poy toy eteqhsan kai sthn kratikh thleorash kai sto kratiko radiofwno  den to lew Dhmosio, einai diko moy qema- otan rwthqhke ti htan ta tsalakwmena xartia poy ebaze sthn tseph toy, h apanthsh poy edwse xwris na pei ti akribws htan ayta ta

xartia, htan oti den htan, se kaqe periptwsh, chfodeltio synadelfoy boyleyth. Ayto eipe o idios. Wstoso, omws, to erwthma paramenei gia emas toys adaeis poy hmastan ejw apo th diadikasia. Ayta poy ebaze sthn tseph toy kai ta opoia fainontai olokaqara sthn eikona, ti akribws htan, efoson den htan chfodeltia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw, eimai sth diaqesh sas na meinw kai arketh wra akomh edw kai na sas proskalesw na kanete mia ypoqesh ergasias. Qelete na thn kanete eseis gia na mhn thn kanw egw; Fantazomai oti h erwthsh sas ypainissetai oti htan kapoio chfodeltio. Ypobalete, loipon, olh thn erwthsh ws ypoqesh ergasias. Peite: ``An ypoqesoyme oti htan ena chfodeltio'' kai egw eimai sth diaqesh sas na apanthsw. Kai qa epanalabw: Ta chfodeltia poy elabe kaqe boyleyths htan tria prwtotypa chfodeltia. To chfodeltio den antigrafetai me fwtotypia h allo tropo. Kaneis den mporei na gracei to onoma alloy boyleyth epanw, giati einai typwmeno apo to mhxanografiko ths Boylhs. Kaneis den mporei na alloiwsei ton ariqmo, giati kaqe chfodeltio exei ena kai monadiko ariqmo. Kaneis den mporei na ftiajei nea diagrammish, giati h diagrammish ginetai mono apo to mhxanografiko ths Boylhs. Einai, dhladh, opws oi trapezikes epitages kai alloy typoy dhmosia eggrafa, ta opoia den mporoyn na alloiwqoyn. En synexeia, qa eprepe na yparxei h synainesh  prosejte- toy boyleyth toy LAOS k. Pleyrh, toy boyleyth ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Mpoyga, toy boyleyth ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Agorastoy, ths boyleytoy toy SYRIZA k. Amanatidoy, dyo texnikwn ypallhlwn oi opoioi xrhsimopoioysan to mhxanhma skaner kai enos epopteyontos dieyqynth ths Boylhs. Afhnw apejw, paroti htan ekei kai eblepan kai aytoi th diadikasia, toys eji stenografoys, toys 180 boyleytes, tis kameres k.t.l. Ti akribws qa mporoyse na ginei; As anarwthqeite to aplo: Qa mporoyse kapoios na diaballei th diadikasia; Sas eipa, ola ta stadia ths, ta opoia apodeiknyontai apo ta praktika ths Boylhs. Me ypografes boyleytwn diaforetikwn kommatwn, me diadikasia plhrws adiablhth, me texnikes prodiagrafes poy exoyn xrhsimopoihqei kai alles fores sto parelqon apo to '98, 2000, 2001, dhladh alles treis fores sto parelqon epi kybernhsewn PASOK tote. Ti eidoys diablhto yparxei; Katalabate poy qelw na katalhjw;

PALAIOLOGOS: Egw katalaba...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Caxnete na breite to erwthma poy moy eipate. To akoyw to erwthma. Kai proxwrhsa thn ypoqesh ergasias ena bhma parapera. Mporeite na fantasteite eseis h en pash periptwsei den eiste eseis ypoxrewmenos, to PASOK prepei na mas pei. Giati ayto jekinhse olh ayth thn istoria, proanaggellontas me diaforoys tropoys gia na katalhjei sthn gkafa sthn opoia anaferqhka. Na mas pei ti akribws diablhto egine sth diadikasia. Dhladh, yposthrizei oti to chfodeltio to diko moy to phre kapoios allos kai chfise gia emena; En agnoia moy h me th synainesh moy; Ean to ekane me th synainesh moy, tote chfisa egw. Alla, allos den mporei na chfisei ek meroys moy, eprepe egw na eimai parwn kai na chfisw kai etsi egine. Kai na parw tis ypografes olwn twn boyleytwn, olwn twn kommatwn poy sas eipa prohgoymenws, poy htan sth diadikasia. En agnoia moy; Ma, an to ekane en agnoia moy, tote qa yphrxan dyo chfodeltia kai to diko moy kai toy alloy poy antegrace to diko moy epeidh epese apo thn tsanta moy to deytero prwtotypo poy eixa.

TSIOYFOS: Den pernagan kai ta dyo apo to skaner. To ena pernage.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean pernoyse to ena apo to skaner ti ennoeite; Oti yphrxe enas o opoios parafylage, eixe parei to chfodeltio...

TSIOYFOS: Oxi. Sas to eipa prohgoymenws. Oti prin ftasei sto skaner  to PASOK ayto isxyrizetai toylaxiston- o k. Agorastos elegxe th ``grammh''. An htan entos h ektos ``grammhs''. Ayto leei to PASOK. Ena qa pernage apo to skaner: To swsto, to entos ``grammhs'' qa pernage. Qewrhtika toylaxiston.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Malista. Eprepe, loipon, na exei symfwnhsei o k. Pleyrhs toy LAOS poy htan mprosta, h k. Amanatidoy toy SYRIZA, gia na fygei to diko moy chfodeltio kai na mpei kapoio allo. Ayto moy lete. Nomizw oti prosballoyme kai ta ypoloipa kommata, genika prosballetai h koinoboyleytikh diadikasia apo to PASOK. Egw sas eipa me logika epixeirhmata, me texnikes apodeijeis to pws egine ekeinh h chfoforia. Eikasies kai fantasioplhkta senaria ta opoia to PASOK, gia na bgei apo to adiejodo toy, prospaqei na proballei, oysiastika ayto qa stigmatisoyn.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla ta logika epixeirhmata kai oi texnikes diadikasies den apodeiknyoyn to oti den egine ayto poy kataggellei to PASOK. H kybernhsh se sygkekrimenes erwthseis den einai se qesh na dwsei sygkekrimenes apanthseis. Giati to akatamaxhto, ypotiqetai, ths adiablhths diadikasias mporei na diabastei kai alliws kai na pei oti h diadikasia htan apolyta elegxomenh apo th Nea Dhmokratia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epanalambanw: Prwton kai kyrion, den yparxei pote kanenos eidoys tetoia kateyqynthria grammh se chfoforia gia thn anaqewrhsh arqrwn toy Syntagmatos. Ayto apodeiknyetai diaxronika.

KAKALHS: An qeloyme to pisteyoyme ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An qelete na to pistecete...

KAKALHS: Exoyme to paradeigma toy k. Stayroy...

ROYSOPOYLOS: An qelete na to pistecete h oxi, einai diko sas qema. Apodeiknyetai, omws, diaxronika kai an kanete...

KAKALHS: Yparxei prohgoymeno, ayto lew. Yparxei prohgoymeno.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Afhste me na teleiwsw. An kanete mia ereyna sta praktika ths Boylhs otan egine h chfoforia gia to Syntagma, qa diapistwsete oti oi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias den chfisan me ton idio tropo oloi. To idio synebh kai twra. Yphrjan arqra toy Syntagmatos poy alloi ta chfisan, alloi den ta chfisan. Antistoixws, eixe symbei kai se alla kommata. O k. Papandreoy aifnhs elege oti htan aytos o opoios chfise thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16. Chfise ontws thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16. Bebaiws meta, ws arxhgos, allaje apoch kai phge alloy to timoni ths dikhs toy pleyshs, alla ayto einai ena qema poy afora ton idion kai krinetai apo toys Ellhnes polites. To bebaion einai oti den yparxei tipota diablhto se ayth th diadikasia. To deytero shmeio sto opoio anaferomai, apantwntas ston k. Kakalh, einai oti kai se ayth th chfoforia mporei kapoios na diabasei ola ta chfodeltia kai na dei pws chfisan oi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias. Allwste  qa symplhrwsw kati, etsi ws mikro ysterografo- ean eixan yparjei antiparaqeseis gia diafwnies se arqra toy Syntagmatos sth Nea Dhmokratia, aytes qa tis eixate gracei prwtoi eseis. Qymaste na eixe yparjei kapoia antiparaqesh, dhladh oti yparxoyn boyleytes mias omadas poy yposthrizoyn ayto kai alloi ayto, kai apo ta anaqewrhtea arqra toy Syntagmatos qa prepei na epikrathsei h mia apoch kai oxi h allh, giati kindyneyei, logoy xarh, h enothta h to kyros; Yphrxe kati tetoio pote sta anaqewrhtea arqra toy Syntagmatos;

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, sto qema twn daswn, an qymamai kala, to dasiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, den htan anaqewrhteo. Den anaqewrhqhke. Htan apo ta pros anaqewrhsh arqra stis protaseis ths Neas Dhmokratias.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qymamai apla th diafwnia, tis enstaseis toy k. Kyriakoy Mhtsotakh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Deite ta tessera arqra ta opoia anaqewrhqhkan: Yphrje kapoia meizwn diafwnia h estw diafwnia kapoioy ek twn boyleytwn; Yphrje reportaz diko sas poy na elege oti se ayta ta tessera arqra (sta opoia telika symfwnei kai h antipoliteysh poy einai paroysa) sth Nea Dhmokratia ginetai diamaxh, giati kapoioi pisteyoyn to A' kai kapoioi alloi pisteyoyn to B';

TSIOYFOS: Sta tessera den yphrxe, alla sto xarti htan ola ta pros anaqewrhsh arqra. Den htan mono ta tessera poy telika anaqewrhqhkan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti htan mia anaqewrhsh me problepto apotelesma.

TSIOYFOS: Nai, profanws, bebaiws. Den yphrxe diakybeyma, einai dedomeno ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai to ``nomizw'' to bazw gia logoys eygeneias. Dioti qymaste poly kala oti ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs poy htan paronta  to PASOK apoxwrhse, opws qymaste- eixan dhlwsei se poia arqra qa symfwnhsoyn pros anaqewrhsh.

TSIOYFOS: Profanws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ara, loipon;

TSIOYFOS: Einai dedomeno oti den yphrxe diakybeyma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti egine loipon;

TSIOYFOS: Einai dedomeno oti den yphrxe diakybeyma. Tessera arqra htan pros anaqewrhsh, alla sto xarti yphrxan ola ta pros anaqewrhsh. Etsi den einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Omws, htan safes -afoy den eixe ginei h chfoforia sthn prohgoymenh Boylh, sthn prohgoymenh qhteia ths kybernhshs- oti ta arqra gia na perasoyn hqelan 180 chfoys.

TSIOYFOS: Bebaiws. Gi` ayto lew oti den yphrxe diakybeyma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan ejisoy safes oti toso to KKE, oso kai o SYRIZA kai o LAOS eixan sygkekrimenh apoch gia ta sygkekrimena arqra h gia ola ta arqra kai poia htan pros anaqewrhsh, poia qa dexontoysan kai poia oxi. Kai to PASOK htan apon. Den yphrxe, loipon, kapoio diakybeyma gia na yparjei kai h anagkh sygkekrimenhs kateyqynthrias grammhs.

TSIOYFOS: Bebaiws. Gi` ayto kapoioi xqes elegan gia blakeia. Boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias me toys opoioys milhsame, polloi synadelfoi, miloysan gia blakeia, giati pragmatika den yphrxe diakybeyma. Alla, profanws, an exei symbei kati, kapoioi qelhsan na emfanisoyn mia sympagh apoch toy synoloy ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas, oxi mono gia ta tessera, alla gia to synolo twn dynhtika pros anaqewrhsh arqrwn. Ayto einai to qema.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta opoia den eixan kamia tyxh na anaqewrhqoyn.

TSIOYFOS: Ta opoia den eixan kamia tyxh na anaqewrhqoyn, gi` ayto kapoioi elegan gia blakeia, gi` ayto sas to lew.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tote den exei kapoios para na koitajei kai ta onomata twn boyleytwn gia na dei, stis qeseis poy eixan topoqethqei, gia paradeigma gia to arqro 24, pws chfisan. Kai qa diapistwsei pws chfisan me ton idio tropo poy eixan dhlwsei dhmosia.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Symfwna me dhmosieymata, se xqesinh synanthsh poy eixe o k. Blaxos me ekproswpoys twn soyper market k.t.l, feretai na toys eipe oti qa prepei na piesoyn ta megala thleoptika diktya na mhn paizoyn reportaz gia thn akribeia. Prokeitai gia mia nea morfh logokrisias; Kai qa hqela na mh moy peite oti prokeitai gia reportaz, giati to reportaz sthrizetai se ayta poy eipan oi synomilhtes toy k. Blaxoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Blaxos rwthqhke;

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Fantazomai, alla egw rwtw esas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean qelete na to peite ayto, giati egw sas erwtw kai an exete, na moy dwsete apanthsh. Meteferqh mia synomilia opws meteferqh apo toys synomilhtes. Egw qa sas apanthsw oti se kamia periptwsh, oyte o k. Blaxos ws yfypoyrgos ths kybernhshs, oyte allos ypoyrgos ths kybernhshs exei tetoioy eidoys antilhceis. Ayto, allwste, mporei na to diapistwsei kapoios poly apla, anoigontas kai th dhmosia thleorash  kratikh, opws thn protima o k. Palaiologos- gia na dei ean yparxei probolh qematwn akribeias diaxronika sthn periodo poy h Nea Dhmokratia einai kybernhsh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Sthn periptwsh poy exei pei o k. Blaxos ayto to pragma, eseis ti lete; Pws to sxoliazete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei. Den qa paw se ypoqetikes periptwseis. H apanthsh moy einai poly sygkekrimenh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Ma, sas lew oti to eipan, oti to reportaz proerxetai apo toys synomilhtes toy k. Blaxoy. Kai gia mena pragmatika einai prwtognwro to na zhtame logokrisia, prokeimenoy na mh qigoyn kapoia qemata me ta opoia asxoleitai o ypoyrgos, o kaq` ylhn...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na moy epitrecete, paroti den einai aytos o rolos sas, na ypobalw egw mia erwthsh tote: Eseis k. Kalogeropoyloy qa ypokycete se kati tetoio, ws dhmosiografos h ws kanali thleoptiko;

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Egw den eimai idiokthtria k. Ypoyrge.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean ypoqesoyme oti eixe ginei ayto to opoio lete.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Egw mia ftwxh reporter eimai kai tapeinh, plhn timia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw, loipon, apeyqynomai sth dhmosiografo: Qa ypokyptate pote se kati tetoio; Einai aytapodeikta ektos pragmatikothtas ayto to opoio eipwqhke.

KATSABOY: O ypoyrgos Oikonomias, o Giwrgos Alogoskoyfhs, dhlwse xqes sto radiofwno toy CITY oti ``qewrw oti eimai eykolos stoxos apo boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias''. Einai kai apoch ths kybernhshs ayth; Qewrei oti o ypoyrgos Oikonomias einai stoxopoihmenos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apofeygw na kanw sxolia gia polloys logoys, o kyrioteros twn opoiwn einai oti den gnwrizw thn akribh dhlwsh. Opws gnwrizete, xqes, hmoyn stis Bryjelles. Den gnwrizw oyte kan to erwthma. Giati kamia fora mia apanthsh xwris to erwthma mporei na dinei allo nohma apo ayto poy hqele na dwsei aytos poy aphnthse, o opoiosdhpote politikos. Den qa kanw, loipon, kapoio sxolio.

KAKALHS: Sthn apanthsh poy dwsate gia ton k. Blaxo, eipate kat` arxhn oti kanena stelexos ths kybernhshs den exei tetoioy eidoys antilhceis. Giati to lete ayto; O idios o k. Fwlias exei dhlwsei sth Boylh oti sta deltia twn 20.00 yparxei h akribeia, poyqena alloy. Ara, einai akribws synephs o k. Blaxos me ayto poy eipe oti oi thleoraseis dhmioyrgoyn to problhma kai ara pieste pros ta ekei. Einai synepeia ths antilhchs poy exei o k. Fwlias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na pisteyw oti mia diapistwsh enos politikoy, h opoia prepei na ginetai me qarros ths gnwmhs toy kaqenas eite einai ypoyrgos, eite oxi, boyleyths k.t.l. exei to qarros ths gnwmhs toy kai afoy th diatypwsei, profanws thn yperaspizetai kiolas. Apo ayto to opoio grafthke h erwthqhn egw oti synebh, porrw apexei.

KAKALHS: Logikh synexeia einai, me sygxwreite, logiko epakoloyqo einai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Allo ayto poy lete eseis, allo ayto to opoio grafthke h erwthqhn.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla otan o ypoyrgos pisteyei oti to problhma me thn akribeia to dhmioyrgoyn ta deltia twn 20.00 -dikh toy dhlwsh- einai logiko epakoloyqo o yfypoyrgos na piezei wste na yparxei mia piesh pros ta kanalia na stamathsoyn na to paizoyn sta deltia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw lew na kanoyme to ejhs, oloi mazi: Na perimenoyme deka hmeres kai na doyme ta kanalia qa paijoyn kapoio qema gia thn akribeia h oxi; Egw den pisteyw oti yparxei shmera sthn politikh zwh toy topoy -kai pantws sigoyra den yparxei apo th Nea Dhmokratia- tetoioy eidoys antilhch. H dhmosiografia askeitai eleyqerws. Emeis sebomaste apolytws to dhmosiografiko leitoyrghma, efoson ayto brisketai sta oria ths deontologias kai den jefeygei me ceydh h alloy eidoys kakentrexeis anafores poy meiwnoyn thn proswpikothta toy opoioydhpote. Ayto, loipon, exei apodeixqei sxedon pente xronia twra. Den prokeitai na allajei ws antilhch sth Nea Dhmokratia.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, gia to kratiko kanali poy eipate: Exete dei pote reportaz ths ERT, toy kratikoy kanalioy, gia thn akribeia; Olo kati eytyxismenoi katanalwtes oi opoioi den briskoyn pote problhma akribeias sthn agora.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akoyste: To na epitiqeste me ayto ton tropo stoys synadelfoys sas dhmosiografoys ths ERT, einai diko sas qema. Qa moy epitrecete na mh symmerizomai kaqoloy thn apoch sas kai na qewrw oti kai oi dhmosiografoi ths ERT askoyn to leitoyrghma toys, to epaggelma toys, me ton tropo poy ofeiloyn na to askoyn oloi oi dhmosiografoi.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, den epitiqemai kaqoloy stoys dhmosiografoys. Antiqeta eseis qelete na kanete toys dhmosiografoys synenoxoys, legontas prohgoymenws, epikaloymenos prohgoymenws 75 koinoboyleytikoys syntaktes. Ti doyleia eixan oi 75 koinoboyleytikoi syntaktes sth diadikasia sth Boylh; Ekanan ton elegxo; Htan mprosta; Giati toys emplekete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sto prwto qema, einai safes oti einai ypotimhtiko gia ena dhmosiografo, an toy lete  me ton tropo poy to eipate- oti akoloyqei entoles h odhgies kai den ejegeiretai. Kai sto deytero qema, h anafora moy egine gia to dhmosio ths diadikasias. Oxi gia ton elegxo. Alliws, den qa anaferomoyn polles fores stis efta synqhkes, milwntas gia efta proswpa sygkekrimena kai tis texnikes synqhkes. Qa anaferomoyn se 75 + 7 syn 186 boyleytes syn xiliades qeates. Opws eidate, eimai poly prosektikos stis diatypwseis moy. Jerw para poly kala ti einai ayto to opoio lew kai to diatypwnw, synhqws, me ton tropo ekeino poy einai katanohtos gia oloys toys Ellhnes poy omiloyn th glwssa mas.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: O k. Gkroyefski paresth xqes sto synedrio twn Repoymplikanwn. Qa hqela na rwthsw: Eixe klhqei h ellhnikh pleyra; Gnwrizete poios ekproswpos apo thn Ellada eixe klhqei kai giati telika den paresth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw, alla ayta einai qemata ta opoia aforoyn diakommatikes sxeseis. Fantazomai o k. Zagoriths, ean erwthqei, qa exei na sas apanthsei. Den gnwrizw ean yphrxe prosklhsh alloy typoy. Qa to koitajw kai sthn kybernhsh, alla eimai bebaios oti apo to komma ths Neas Dhmokratias qa exoyn na sas dwsoyn kapoia apanthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qelw na rwthsw me aformh ta teleytaia dhmoskopika eyrhmata, ta opoia pera apo th meiwsh ths calidas poy synhqizoyme na leme emeis oi dhmosiografoi, katagrafoyn thn oloena ayjanomenh kai diogkwmenh dysforia toy kosmoy gia to ergo ths kybernhshs. Malista, h sygkekrimenh xqesinh dhmoskophsh poy paroysiasthke apo megalo thleoptiko staqmo, mila gia to oti krinei arnhtika to 69,1%. Paromoio pososto h gyrw sto 80% dhlwne apogohteymeno apo to ergo ths kybernhshs se prohgoymenh dhmoskophsh, progenesterh. Egw den qelw to sxolio, oyte ean problhmatizei thn kybernhsh, poy nomizw oti thn problhmatizei. Poia einai h antidrash ths kybernhshs se ayth thn katagrafomenh dysareskeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa perimena apo thn erwthsh na exei kai to ypoloipo kommati to opoio anaferetai se zhthmata poy einai epishs praktika, opws gia to ean oi Ellhnes apodexontai to problhma ths forodiafyghs, ta metra gia th forodiafygh k.t.l., giati tote qa empaina sthn oysia mias syzhthshs gia thn opoia gnwrizete poly kala poia einai h qesh moy. Egw, qa epanalabw kai shmera oti oi dhmoskophseis einai ergaleia doyleias gia toys politikoys. To idio isxyei gia th Nea Dhmokratia, to idio isxye apo tote poy hmastan sthn antipoliteysh, to epanalambanw  koyrastika isws- edw kai oxtw xronia. Sebomaste tis apoceis twn Ellhnwn politwn. Qewroyme oti h strathgikh mas einai kaqorismenh jekaqara se o,ti afora thn oikonomia. Me bash ayth th strathgikh, poreyomaste gia to symferon toy topoy kai sigoyra to symferon twn politwn ekeinwn poy kai droyn kai ergazontai, sebomenoi toys nomoys  kai milw en prokeimenw poly sygkekrimena gia to qema toy foroy en antiqesei me th forodiafygh poy parathreitai- kai etsi qa synexisoyme.

TSIOYFOS: H mh chfish nomosxedioy einai logos prokhryjhs prowrwn eklogwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthse, xqes, o k. Antwnaros kai...

TSIOYFOS: Lew mhpws exete na peite kati parapanw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: ...nomizw oti den qa symplhrwsw kati spoydaiotero egw.

KAKALHS: Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti qa yparjei ergodoths poy qa dwsei bebaiwsh se ergazomeno me mplokaki, prokeimenoy na apofygei to foro, to 10%, opws eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto to opoio exoyme pei para polles fores einai oti apo th mia pleyra exoyme thn Politeia me toys elegktikoys mhxanismoys, apo thn allh exoyme ton polith, o opoios otan diapistwnei oti adikeitai, tote bohqwntas kai ton idio toy ton eayto, th doyleia toy kai sigoyra kai thn Politeia to kataggellei. Dioti ean meinoyme apaqeis mprosta se fainomena adikias twn ergazomenwn, kerdoskopias twn oligwn, tote antilambaneste oti o dromos einai monodromos kai einai kakos monodromos. Ekeino, loipon, to opoio exoyme zhthsei polles fores -kai epanalambanw kai shmera- einai th synainesh kai sto logo kai thn prajh enos ekastoy polith xwrista. Ean sto paradeigma poy eipate o ergazomenos den prosfygei na kataggeilei, antilambaneste oti h Politeia den mporei na gnwrizei. Kai yparxoyn kataggelies oi opoies mporei na ginoyn me polloys tropoys pia se polles anejarthtes arxes peran twn ypoyrgeiwn. Dhladh, exei ftiajei h Politeia kai me bash ta eyrwpaika dedomena, organa tetoia poy o kaqe poliths mporei na diekdikhsei to dikio toy kai entelei na to brei.

KAKALHS: Sto ``dia tayta'', dhladh, ayto shmainei oti oi ergazomenoi me mplokaki, oi misqwtoi ston idiwtiko tomea me mplokaki, qa plhrwsoyn to xaratsi toy enos misqoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw sas apanthsa se kati poly sygkekrimeno. Bgazete ena allo symperasma to opoio h einai ayqaireto h deixnei oti egw den katanohsa apo thn arxh thn erwthsh sas.

KAKALHS: Den prokeitai na ginei, gi` ayto to lew. Milate les kai exete erqei apo allo kosmo, den jerete pws leitoyrgei h agora. Ama ton kataggeilei, qa apolyqei. An o ergodoths hqele na ton proslabei xwris mplokaki, qa to eixe kanei. Den to kanei, omws, giati den plhrwnei IKA kai ta loipa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epeidh apo th synexeia ths erwthsews sas einai safes oti katanohsa plhrws to erwthma sas, sas qymizw oti yparxoyn anejarthtes Arxes -an o ergazomenos den qelhsei na paei sthn Epiqewrhsh Ergasias- oi opoies mporoyn na paremboyn xwris na xreiastei o ergazomenos na dwsei to onoma toy, para mono sthn anejarthth Arxh, h opoia desmeyetai apo to aporrhto twn proswpikwn dedomenwn. Yparxoyn tetoies kataggelies. Mporei na mhn yparxei akribws ayth poy eipate eseis. Yparxoyn kataggelies. Gnwrizoyme oti o Synhgoros toy Polith  den qa paw se alloys Synhgoroys toy paidioy k.t.l.- exei parembei kai epityxws. Ayto, loipon, poy xreiazetai einai kai emeis oi idioi se tetoies periptwseis na ajiopoihsoyme ta organa poy exei h Politeia kai ta opoia den mas ``ekqetoyn'' kat` anagkhn, opws anaferete sth deyterh erwthsh sas.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Qa epanaferw thn erwthsh poy eixa kanei xqes k. Ypoyrge ston k. Antwnaro, o opoios den gnwrize to qema, oti symfwna me thn Efhmerida ths Kybernhshs 1443 stis 7/3/2005 o k. Boylgarakhs eixe systhsei me th syzygo toy mia etaireia real estate oysiastika. Qa hqela to sxolio sas kai poso synnomo htan th sygkekrimenh xronikh stigmh poy egine h etaireia, enas ypoyrgos na ginetai kai mesiths.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti enas politikos den mporei na metexei ws melos dioikhtikoy symboylioy gia to asymbibasto, alla ws metoxos den exei kamia apagoreysh. Alla, epeidh einai ena qema poly ejeidikeymeno, exw epikoinwnhsei me ton k. Boylgarakh, o opoios ean den exei hdh ekdwsei anakoinwsh, entos ths prosexoys wras qa ekdwsei mia anakoinwsh me thn opoia rhta kai kathgorhmatika qa gnwstopoiei ta gegonota, anaferontas ta ena pros ena.

KOGKOY: (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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