Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-12-04

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 4 Dekembrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 109266003

Ekdosh 1

brf0412

ANAPLHRWTHS KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 4 Dekembrioy 2007

Xairete.

" O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs qa milhsei shmera stis 19.30 sto 18o ethsio synedrio me qema: ``H wra ths ellhnikhs oikonomias'', poy organwnetai apo to ellhno-amerikaniko Emporiko Epimelhthrio.

" Ayrio, Tetarth 5 Dekembrioy, o Prwqypoyrgos qa synanthqei, stis 11 to prwi, sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn ths Toyrkias k. Ali Mpampatzan. Stis 12.00 to meshmeri o Prwqypoyrgos qa synanthqei me ton proswpiko antiproswpo toy Genikoy Grammatea twn Hnwmenwn Eqnwn poy episkeptetai thn Aqhna, k. Maqioy Nimits. Stis 13.00, o Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs qa exei synergasia me ton Ypoyrgo Eqnikhs Amynas k. Eyaggelo Meimarakh. Telos, stis 13.30 qa synedriasei ypo thn Proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Kwsta Karamanlh, to KYSEA me antikeimeno trexonta qemata.

" Xqes, eginan edw sthn aiqoysa diafores erwthseis sxetika me ena qema poy aforoyse proslhceis apo to Ypoyrgeio Politismoy. Me aformh aytes tis erwthseis, poy apanthqhkan xqes bebaiws apo ton Kybernhtiko Ekproswpo k. Roysopoylo, qa hqela shmera na kanw gia to idio qema mia synolikh kai pio analytikh enhmerwsh: O diagwnismos aytos apotelei efarmogh toy nomoy 3342/2005 gia th diarqrwsh, organwsh kai leitoyrgia ths Genikhs Grammateias Olympiakhs Ajiopoihshs kai sygkekrimena, to arqro 32 toy en logw nomoy. Basikos logos ths diathrhshs ths prwhn Genikhs Grammateias Olympiakwn Agwnwn einai h diathrhsh proswpikoy kai texnognwsias sygkentrwmenwn entos mias organikhs monadas toy Dhmosioy, wste na mh diasparqei to olympiako kekthmeno. Symfwna me th nomoqetikh ejoysiodothsh, ekdoqhke h yp` ariqmon YP.PO./G.G.O.A./93 Ypoyrgikh Apofash toy Ypoyrgeioy Politismoy kai sygkekrimena ths Genikhs Grammateias Olympiakhs Ajiopoihshs poy orizei toys oroys kai tis proypoqeseis gia th symmetoxh sto diagwnismo, kaqws kai th diadikasia epiloghs. Kata twn orwn ths prokhryjhs den ypoblhqhke kamia enstash, an kai h symmetoxh anhlqe se 14.356 ypochfioys. H prokhryjh anarthqhke sto teyxos dhmosieysewn toy ASEP, FEK ariqmos 3 me hmeromhnia 19/01/2007. Epishs, anarthqhke sthn istoselida ths Genikhs Grammateias Olympiakhs Ajiopoihshs, ston oikeio pinaka anakoinwsewn ths Genikhs Grammateias Olympiakhs Ajiopoihshs, se dyo hmerhsies efhmerides twn Aqhnwn kai htan diaqesimh se ola ta KEP ths xwras. Epishs, problepetai h apostolh toy praktikoy twn epitropwn ajiologhshs sto ASEP kai ayth akribws einai h frash poy perierxetai kai sto sxetiko nomo. Epilexqhke ws eidikh empeiria h sxesh ergasias sth Genikh Grammateia Olympiakhs Ajiopoihshs. Epomenws, ayth prosmetrato apo ton Ioynio toy 2005 kai enteyqen. Ws genikh empeiria epilexqhke h sxesh ergasias opoydhpote kai an apokthqhke sto dhmosio h ston idiwtiko tomea. Sto parelqon, se antistoixo diagwnismo toy etoys 2004, gia thn plhrwsh 798 qesewn aoristoy xronoy sth Genikh Grammateia Dhmosiwn Ergwn toy Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos, Xwrotajias kai Dhmosiwn Ergwn, doqhke prosayjhsh empeirias kata 40% gia deka xronia apo to 1994 kai enteyqen. Epishs, sth Genikh Grammateia Olympiakwn Agwnwn, sthn idia dhladh Genikh Grammateia --h opoia aplws meta toys Olympiakoys Agwnes metonomasthke-- stis 22/11/2003 prokhryxqhkan 35 qeseis aoristoy xronoy me prosayjhsh empeirias 100% gia epta xronia apo to 1997 mexri thn hmeromhnia prokhryjhs. Peraiterw sth Genikh Grammateia Aqlhtismoy, thn idia epoxh, prokhryxqhkan 252 qeseis aoristoy xronoy me prosayjhsh empeirias ews 120% gia epta xronia, apo to 1997 mexri thn hmeromhnia prokhryjhs. Stis dyo de teleytaies periptwseis agnohqhke h empeiria poy apokthqhke ston idiwtiko tomea. Kai stoys treis diagwnismoys problepetai --kai ayto sas to lew se eisagwgika, einai h akribhs diatypwsh toy nomoy--``apostolh toy praktikoy twn epitropwn ajiologhshs sto ASEP''. Ayto anaferetai stoys nomoys 3312/2003 kai 2947/2001. Ola ta anwterw syzhthqhkan kata th diarkeia ths syzhthshs poy egine sto Koinoboylio gia to nomo 3342. Doqhkan apanthseis se treis erwthseis kai mia eperwthsh kata th diadikasia toy koinoboyleytikoy elegxoy. Ola ta krithria poy perigrafontai sthn oikeia prokhryjh problepontai apo to Proedriko Diatagma 50/2001 poy ryqmizei tis proslhceis, mesw ASEP. Otan epelegh h sygkekrimenh ryqmish elhfqhsan ypoch ta didagmata ths dioikhtikhs empeirias, h nomoqesia toy ASEP peri proslhcewn sto Dhmosio kai h Syntagmatikh Anaqewrhsh. Epishs, den epibarynqhke to Dhmosio me systash newn qesewn aoristoy xronoy, opws stoys alloys treis diagwnismoys poy prohghqhkan, alla meiwqhkan oi yparxoyses kenes organikes qeseis toy Ypoyrgeioy Politismoy. O xronos diekperaiwshs toy diagwnismoy den qa yperbei toys 12 mhnes, kata th stigmh thn opoia h synhqhs diadikasia, opws jerete einai poly xronoboros, toy ASEP, odhgei se polyeth anamonh toys ypochfioys kai se adynamia poiotikhs leitoyrgias to Dhmosio. Kai ola ayta  -kai to tonizw ayto-- xwris na parablepetai o rolos toy ASEP, ston opoio epafietai, opws problepei o nomos, h thrhsh ths diafaneias kai ths nomimothtas, epanalambanw, kai kata to nomo kai symfwna me thn prokhryjh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o tropos me ton opoio egine h anakoinwsh oti h Olympiakh qa kleisei, exei prokalesei hdh salo kai yparxoyn para polles aitiaseis, oti me ayto ton tropo poy epeleje h kybernhsh prokaleitai megalh zhmia oikonomikh se mia hdh bebarhmenh epixeirhsh. Ti apanta h kybernhsh se aytes tis aitiaseis;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn apanthqei ola ayta ta erwthmata kai xqes se ayth thn aiqoysa kai apo ton armodio Ypoyrgo k. Xatzhdakh, se mia poly ektenh synenteyjh Typoy thn opoia edwse xqes. Aytoi oi opoioi diatypwnoyn tetoioys isxyrismoys, epimenoyn na agnooyn ta pragmatika peristatika. As ta melethsoyn kalytera kai qa paroyn monoi toys tis apanthseis.

KAKALHS: Ta pragmatika peristatika lene oti o Ypoyrgos Metaforwn, eipe xqes, oti den yparxei sxedio. Eimaste sth fash, leei, gia thn paroysiash toy sxedioy ths epomenhs meras. Par` ola ayta, moirazei diabebaiwseis oti den qa qigoyn oi ergazomenoi kai oti kanena nhsi den qa meinei xwris kalych. Ayto, xwris na exei omws etoimo to sxedio ths epomenhs hmeras. Ayto einai sykofantia se baros ths kybernhshs;

ANTWNAROS: Kat` arxas, metaferete entelws apospasmatika ta osa eipe o Ypoyrgos.

KAKALHS: Pws ta eipe; Mporeite na mas peite;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas diabasw, loipon, osa eipe o Ypoyrgos, efoson to epiqymeite, gia na mh metaferete edw apospasmatika mia frash...

KAKALHS: Den yparxei kaneis logos.

ANTWNAROS: O Ypoyrgos eipe: ``Kaneis ergazomenos den qa breqei xwris doyleia''. Ayto to ypogrammizei o Ypoyrgos ek meroys ths kybernhshs, gia mia akomh fora. Kai poio safes den mporei na ginei. Tis epikefalides sas diabazw. Deyteron: ``Ta nhsia mas den qa meinoyn xwris kalych, opoia kai an einai h lysh. Ta nhsia qa kalyptontai''.

KAKALHS: Ayta eipa kai egw.

ANTWNAROS: Nai, alla amfisbhteite osa leei o Ypoyrgos. Egw ekproswpw thn kybernhsh kai yposthrizw ayta poy leei o Ypoyrgos. Kai ta epanalambanw akribws gia na ta akoysete kai eseis poy profanws den qelete na ta katalabete.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite (den akoygetai)...

ANTWNAROS: Asfalws, qa moy epitrecete na oloklhrwsw thn apanthsh moy. Sas parakalw. Triton: ``Oi forologoymenoi den qa xreiastei na baloyn allo to xeri sthn tseph'', to opoio profanws einai kati poy qewreite eseis oti qa eprepe na synexisoyn na kanoyn oi Ellhnes forologoymenoi.

KAKALHS: (Den akoygetai).

ANTWNAROS: Tetarton: ``Se kamia periptwsh den qa dexqoyme na yparjei monopwlio ston tomea twn metaforwn sthn Ellada''. Twra, se osa anaferqhkan sxetika me to qema toy sxedioy. Einai se oloys gnwsto oti edw kai polla xronia yphrxe syzhthsh-diapragmateysh anamesa sthn ellhnikh kybernhsh me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph gia ola ta ekkremh qemata poy aforoyn sthn Olympiakh. Enw, loipon, proxwroyse ayth h diapragmateysh, yphrje mia epipleon parembash, mia prosfygh, den jerw an einai aytos o akribhs nomikos oros, mias allhs etaireias ths ``Ryanair'' sto Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio. H epishmh qesh ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs den exei akomh dhmosiopoihqei. Meta, omws, apo ayth thn ejelijh, o armodios Ypoyrgos k. Xatzhdakhs me thn ypeyqynothta poy ton diakrinei ekrine oti eprepe na topoqethqei me parrhsia sto qema. Na mhn kanei san na mhn yparxoyn ta kainoyrgia dedomena. Na paroysiasei ayta ta nea dedomena kai na topoqethqei se ola ta kainoyrgia zhthmata ta opoia prokyptoyn. Twra, milhsate eseis gia ``etoimo sxedio''. Ola qa kriqoyn me bash ta dedomena poy qa prokycoyn. Einai prowro, ayth th stigmh, epeidh eseis to epiqymeite, na erqei h kybernhsh kai na kataqesei, na dhmosiopoihsei ena kainoyrgio sxedio, ena sxedio leitoyrgias mias aeroporikhs etaireias. Kai ayto den mporei na ginei kai giati ta dedomena den yparxoyn, alla kai gia logoys epixeirhmatikothtas. Proxwrei h epejergasia sxediwn. To sxedio omws to oristiko, to teliko an qelete, qa anaptyxqei kai qa ginei gnwsto, otan qa einai gnwsta ola ta dedomena. Qa hqela, epishs, na epishmanw kati to opoio eipe kai xqes o Ypoyrgos kai to lew gia mia akomh fora: Epikratei h paranohsh, hqelhmenh h oxi, den jerw kai den eimai se qesh kai na to krinw, oti prokeitai gia mia dimerh diafora metajy Elladas kai Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs. To qema ths Olympiakhs den einai dimerhs diafora. H Eyrwpaikh Enwsh leitoyrgei en prokeimenw me th morfh, an qelete, mias epitrophs antagwnismoy, se ypereqniko epipedo. Kai h ellhnikh kybernhsh, oi ellhnikes Arxes, h Ellada, exoyn ypoxrewsh opws oles oi xwres-melh ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs na antapokriqoyn stoys kanones poy isxyoyn sto qema twn aeroporikwn sygkoinwniwn ston eyrwpaiko xwro.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla kai me ayta poy eipate epibebaiwsate ayto akribws to erwthma poy ekana. Eipate oti einai prowro na eipwqei me akribeia to sxedio giati den yparxoyn akomh ta dedomena.

ANTWNAROS: Nai.

KAKALHS: Par` ola ayta, omws, eseis moirasate diabebaiwseis stoys ergazomenoys oti den qa qigoyn. Kanenas den qa breqei xwris doyleia, kanena nhsi den qa meinei xwris kalych kai alla tetoia. Pws xwris na exete oloklhrwsei to sxedio, moirazete aytes tis diabebaiwseis; Giati...

ANTWNAROS: Aytes einai desmeyseis ths kybernhshs, oi opoies isxyoyn. Oso kai an den aresoyn se orismenoys, oi opoioi qeloyn na dhmioyrghsoyn alles laqemenes entypwseis.

KAKALHS: Einai, dhladh, analogoy ajiopistias desmeyseis, opws aytes poy eixe analabei o Prwqypoyrgos proeklogika gia to Asfalistiko; Tetoies einai;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws, dioti oles oi desmeyseis poy exei analabei gia to Asfalistiko o Prwqypoyrgos, isxyoyn sto akeraio.

GKOYTZANHS: Twra mhn mpoyme sto Asfalistiko. Hqela na rwthsw gia thn Olympiakh dyo pragmata kyrie Ekproswpe. To ena einai oti hdh apo to reportaz poy akoyme kai akoysame toys idioys toys operator na lene oti exoyn akyrwseis kai anhsyxia apo toys pelates toys gia ta eisithria poy exoyn kleisei gia thn toyristikh periodo me thn Olympiakh. Nomizete oti ayto den prokalei zhmia sthn Olympiakh;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa exei pei o k. Xatzhdakhs, xqes. Den exw na prosqesw kati allo.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na rwthsw, an h kybernhsh einai etoimh na kataqesei ton eklogiko nomo mesa sthn ebdomada.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei oti exei pei o k. Roysopoylos. Den exw kati neotero na sas pw.

SPYRAKH: Einai texniko entelws to qema. Qa to kataqesete mesa sthn ebdomada; Ayto rwtaw.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na sas pw kati neotero.

SPYRAKH: Den to exei pei o k. Roysopoylos, pantws, egw qelw na pw.

ANTWNAROS: Exei anaferqei o k. Roysopoylos.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh eipate gia thn prosfygh poy exei ginei, einai apo thn ``Ryanair'', thn irlandikh kai fysika den einai mono enantion ths Olympiakhs. Einai enantion eji etaireiwn, metajy twn opoiwn kai h ``Alitalia'' kai h ``Lufthansa''. Wstoso, mono o Ellhnas Ypoyrgos espeyse na allajei grammh pleyshs, epeidh katateqhke mia agwgh. Kai to deytero, qa to exete ypoch sas, oti ekkremei akomh mia apofash toy Eyrwpaikoy Dikasthrioy gia th sygxwneysh twn xrewn, as to poyme.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa, eisagwgika to eipa ayto.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai. Giati den perimenei h kybernhsh na bgoyn aytes oi apofaseis, alla speydei apo monh ths na prolabei tis ejelijeis;

ANTWNAROS: Sas parapempw sth dhlwsh poy ekana, giati profanws den katalabate thn topoqethsh moy.

GKOYTZANHS: Jerete poia einai h kathgoria poy apeyqynetai sthn kybernhsh kai ston Ypoyrgo, oti leitoyrgei san ekproswpos twn Bryjellwn kai oxi san ekproswpos twn ellhnikwn symferontwn.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai mia anypostath, abasimh, sykofantikh kathgoria thn opoia den antilambanomai giati aisqaneste thn anagkh na th metaferete se ayth thn aiqoysa.

GKOYTZANHS: Aytos einai o dhmosios dialogos poy ginetai kyrie Ypoyrge. Emeis ton metaferoyme.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw.

FANIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sysswmh h antipoliteysh ballei enantion ths kybernhshs gia thn proqesh ths na kleisei thn Olympiakh. Malista oi ergazomenoi etoimazontai, apo o,ti lene, na kataqesoyn mhnysh enantion toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy Metaforwn k. Xatzhdakh gia parabash kaqhkontos kai proklhsh zhmias sthn etaireia. H ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh apo thn pleyra ths kathgorei ton k. Xatzhdakh pws kateqese ta opla ths diapragmateyshs, yioqetwntas akrita ola ta epixeirhmata twn antagwnistwn ths Olympiakhs. Exoyn kata th gnwmh sas, antipoliteysh kai ergazomenoi, adiko kai h kybernhsh dikio sthn ypoqesh ayth;

ANTWNAROS: Menw, opws sas exw pei, stis apanthseis poy exei dwsei o k. Xatzhdakhs. H kybernhsh exei desmeyqei gia sygkekrimena pragmata. Ekeino poy thn endiaferei einai na breqei h kalyterh dynath lysh gi` ayto to qema poy apasxolei, opws sas eipa kai eisagwgika, polla xronia thn ellhnikh koinh gnwmh, ton ellhniko politiko kosmo, toys ergazomenoys kai fysika oloys toys Ellhnes polites poy xrhsimopoioyn aeroplana kata tis metakinhseis toys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, oso kai an einai dysaresto gia thn kybernhsh, qa epanelqw sthn erwthsh toy synadelfoy, toy k. Gkoytzanh, giati anarwtiemai ean telika h prosfygh ths etaireias Ryanair apotelei apla ena prosxhma gia thn kybernhsh, prokeimenoy na paroysiasei to sxedio poy eixe etoimo apo kairo.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw, gia mia akomh fora, oti ekana eisagwgikh topoqethsh, thn opoia profanws dyskoleyontai orismenoi na parakoloyqhsoyn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Pantws, oxi egw.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh mila me parrhsia kai plhrh eilikrineia kai apeyqynetai stoys Ellhnes polites, oi opoioi einai ekeinoi poy shkwnoyn to baros twn terastiwn elleimmatwn poy exoyn dhmioyrghqei apo thn Olympiakh Aeroporia.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ayto. Sthn oysia epibebaiwnete ayto poy eipa egw, oti apla h prosfygh ths Raynair htan prosxhmatikh, htan ena prosxhma, htan ena pathma gia thn kybernhsh.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den egine safes ayto poy eipa eisagwgika: Oti h sygkekrimenh prosfygh, oxi mono den einai prosxhma, alla dhmioyrghse entelws kainoyrgies synqhkes. Kai an kapoios kanei oti den qelei na dei ta kainoyrgia dedomena ta opoia dhmioyrgoyntai, tote eqelotyflei.

PALAIOLOGOS: H prosfygh ayth egine kai gia alles etaireies, gia thn ALITALIA, gia paradeigma.

ANTWNAROS: Egw eimai Ekproswpos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai milw, bebaiws, gia to problhma poy exei proklhqei gia th sygkekrimenh, th dikh mas etaireia. Alla, qa speysw na sas pw oti gia thn kaqe etaireia dhmioyrgoyntai allhs morfhs problhmata.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ean moy epitrepete, mia kybernhsh sthn oysia toy qematos, egw qelw na qesw merikes erwthseis poy exoyn sxesh me th leitoyrgia ths Olympiakhs epi twn hmerwn sas. Qelw, loipon, na sas rwthsw, posh einai h eisfora poy exei katabalei h Olympiakh sth leitoyrgia toy aerodromioy twn Spatwn kai poso einai to IKA poy ypoxreoyntai na katabalei h Olympiakh ws ergodoths kai poso apo ayto exei katabalei h Olympiakh epi twn hmerwn sas, apo ton Martio toy 2004 poy ejelegh h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias, mexri shmera.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio.

SPYRAKH: Na sas rwthsw kai kati allo; Den exei gnwsh h kybernhsh ean h Olympiakh exei katabalei h oxi tis ypoxrewseis ths. H ellhnikh kybernhsh brisketai ypologh, giati kindyneyei na anoijei o fakelos apo to 2004 ews to 2007, opote kai aytes oi mh kataboles qewroyntai emmesh kratikh enisxysh.

ANTWNAROS: Foboymai oti ta stoixeia ta opoia xrhsimopoieite den antapokrinontai plhrws sthn pragmatikothta, oson afora toys xronoys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ep` aytoy, epeidh egine mia sygkekrimenh kataggelia apo ton Nomarxh k. Sgoyro, mallon kata thn tapeinh moy apoch qymhqhke na thn kanei shmera, o opoios eipe oti qa eprepe na anaklhqei h adeia ths Olympiakhs etaireias.

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei kamia amfibolia oti polloi, orismenoi ej aytwn apolytws anarmodioi, topoqetoyntai sto qema ths Olympiakhs, xwris na gnwrizoyn ta pragmatika stoixeia kai ta pragmatika peristatika. To qema to xeirizetai me apolyth ypeyqynothta h shmerinh kybernhsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ep` aytoy: Moy epitrepete; Sthn oysia epibebaiwnete (den akoygetai) oti isxyei h kataggelia (den akoygetai). Ayto den katalaba.

ANTWNAROS: Lypamai poy den katalabate. Den mporw na kanw tipote perissotero gi` ayto.

PALAIOLOGOS: Sas eyxaristw para poly. Eiste gennaiodwros.

KAKALHS: Se aytoys poy den gnwrizoyn ta pragmatika stoixeia kai peristatika, perilambanete kai toys ependytes sth Sofokleoys, oi opoioi anebasan th metoxh ths Aegean Airlines 12,5% tis prohgoymenes dyo hmeres, mhpws to qewreite tyxaio ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Den jerw an eseis exete tetoies idiaiteres enasxolhseis...

KAKALHS: Ti enasxolhseis; Den eidate...

ANTWNAROS: Egw den parakoloyqw...

KAKALHS: Den sas ekane entypwsh oti h metoxh ths Aegean Airlines anebhke 12,5% tis dyo prohgoymenes hmeres (den akoygetai)

ANTWNAROS: Den parakoloyqw tis diakymanseis twn timwn metoxwn sto Xrhmatisthrio Ajiwn twn Aqhnwn. Sas to lew eyqews.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mhpws exete problhma na mas peite poio einai to kostos gia th leitoyrgia ths ``Panqeon''; Giati nomizw oti exei akoma grafeia kai symboylio kai poio einai to ergo poy exei parajei ayth h etaireia mexri twra;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio.

TSIOYFOS: Qa moy epitrecete mia erwthsh ektos Olympiakhs;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws, meta xaras.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, skopeyei h kybernhsh, enocei ths sygkentrwshs ths 12hs Dekembrioy, na kanei kati wste na prosarmosei tis qeseis ths se kapoia aithmata h se kapoies qeseis twn ergazomenwn; Na to pw diaforetika, na balei ligo nero sto krasi ths se o,ti afora to Asfalistiko.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw akoysei alles qeseis.

TSIOYFOS: Pws den yparxoyn alles qeseis; Yparxoyn qeseis apo toys foreis oi opoioi sygxwneyontai, yparxoyn qeseis apo ta syndikata, giati den exete akoysei;

ANTWNAROS: Loipon, osoi pistoi as proselqoyn sto dialogo. O dialogos einai anoiktos.

TSIOYFOS: Egw den eipa ayto. Eipa oti exoyn diatypwqei kapoies qeseis apo foreis, apo organwseis ergazomenwn, oi opoioi qewroyn oti qigontai kai rwtw ean h kybernhsh protiqetai, enocei ths sygkentrwshs ths epomenhs Tetarths, na dei orismena apo ayta ta qemata poy exoyn pei. To dialogo, ton eyrytero dialogo poy, apo o,ti jerw kai leei h kybernhsh, ton kanei me thn ESHEA, sta grafeia ths ESHEA, ton kanei me toys mhxanikoys sta grafeia twn mhxanikwn, ton kanei me toys giatroys sta grafeia twn giatrwn.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Aytes einai antallages apocewn. O dialogos egine kai ginetai sta plaisia toy Koinoboylioy.

TSIOYFOS: Me sygxwreite. O k. Magginas eipe oti yparxoyn dyo (den akoygetai) sto dialogo. Mia poy ginetai sto Koinoboylio kai mia poy ginetai ektos Koinoboylioy. O k. Magginas to eipe.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws. Kai sas eipa kai egw oti ginontai antallages apocewn. Alla o qesmoqethmenos dialogos ginetai sto Koinoboylio. Ayto to exoyme pei ejarxhs. H kybernhsh exei analabei to oxi eykolo ergo --to exoyme pei, allwste-- na anaprosarmosei to asfalistiko systhma, etsi wste na einai dikaio, na einai biwsimo kai na ejasfalizei tis syntajeis olwn twn Ellhnwn politwn, aytwn poy shmera einai hdh syntajiodothmenoi kai aytwn poy ayrio qa bgoyn sth syntajh. Panw se ayto, me ayth th basikh skech, h kybernhsh exei kataqesei tis sygkekrimenes protaseis ths. Kai me aytes tis protaseis --efoson den prokycoyn alles synolikes idees kai synolikes proseggiseis-- otan proetoimastei to sxetiko nomosxedio, qa ftasei pros chfish sth Boylh. Mexri prin apo liges hmeres ektojeyotan h kathgoria pros thn kybernhsh oti den eixe protaseis, den eixe qeseis, den eixe diatypwsei tis apoceis ths. Twra, yparxoyn oi apoceis. Kai ekeino to opoio diapistwnw oti prospaqoyn na kanoyn orismenoi einai, an qelete, na rokanisoyn to xrono. Na gyrisoyn to roloi pisw. Na poyn oti ayto to opoio oloi oi exefrones polites apodexontai kai qewroyn aparaithto, dhladh, na ginei metarryqmish sto asfalistiko systhma, den prepei na ginei, prepei na paei pisw sto xrono. Ayto den mporei na ginei.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh eipate oti h kybernhsh exei protaseis kai apoceis, exei kataqesei h kybernhsh kapoio keimeno me tis apoceis ths, me tis protaseis ths;

ANTWNAROS: Exei topoqethqei, treis fores se treis kykloys oi opoioi eginan, o armodios Ypoyrgos sth Boylh kai malista analytika.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi. Entajei. Den diafwnw. Lew, mhpws exei kataqesei kapoio keimeno kai den to gnwrizoyme.

ANTWNAROS: Anatrejte sth Boylh. Qa ta breite ta keimena.

GKOYTZANHS: Isws gia na enhmerwqoyn kai oi polites toys opoioys kai toys afora.

ANTWNAROS: Oi polites, doja tw Qew, fantazomai oti apo esas poy exete analabei thn enhmerwsh toys, enhmerwnontai.

GKOYTZANHS: Afoy oyte emeis exoyme keimeno.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na anatrejete (sta katagegrammena keimena ths Boylhs).

RABANOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh anaferqhkate gia tis qeseis ths kybernhshs poy exei kataqesei sto Koinoboylio, sthn armodia Epitroph, pws ajiologei h kybernhsh th dyspistia twn politwn enanti, oxi mono ths kybernhshs, alla kai toy PASOK, na lysei to megalo qema toy Asfalistikoy; Kai deyteron, ta pososta ajiopistias, opws katagrafhkan se xqesinh dhmoskophsh kai twn dyo kommatwn, katw apo to 27%.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na kanw kanena sxoliasmo gia dhmoskophseis.

TSIOYFOS: Eipate prin apo ligo oti oi exefrones polites analambanoyn thn anagkh...

ANTWNAROS: Poy einai kai sth megalh pleiochfia, speydw na pw.

TSIOYFOS: ... .epilyshs toy Asfalistikoy. Qewrw oti o xarakthrismos ``exefrones polites'' einai mallon ybristikos apenanti se aytoys poy thn epomenh ebdomada qa diadhlwsoyn. Aytoi den einai exefrones polites;

ANTWNAROS: Egw anaferqhka sth megalh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, oi opoioi antilambanontai, apo osa exoyn akoysei ola ayta ta teleytaia xronia  kai oxi mono kata th diarkeia ths diakybernhshs apo th shmerinh kybernhsh-- oti prepei na breqei lysh sto Asfalistiko. Fainetai orismenoi na to jexnoyn.

MELIGKWNHS: Omws, k. Ekproswpe, einai allo pragma na anagnwrizoyn oi polites oti yparxei ena problhma kai allo pragma na symfwnoyn me tis protaseis ths kybernhshs gia na lysei ayto to problhma.

ANTWNAROS: Ti qelete na peite; Den antilambanomai. H kybernhsh, gnwrizete, oti molis prin dyo mhnes, me sygkekrimeno kybernhtiko programma, phre thn empistosynh ths pleiochfias twn Ellhnwn politwn, prokeimenoy, metajy twn allwn, na proxwrhsei kai sth metarryqmish toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, basei sygkekrimenwn protasewn, tis opoies, metajy twn allwn, eixe anaferei poly analytika o Prwqypoyrgos treis ebdomades prin tis ekloges sth synedriash ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs ths Neas Dhmokratias. H kybernhsh eixe pei hdh apo thn prohgoymenh tetraetia oti ayth h tetraetia, h deyterh tetraetia, efoson epanejelegeto, opws kai epanejelegh, qa einai h tetraetia kata thn opoia qa dinontan oi lyseis sto Asfalistiko. Synepws, den einai kati kainoyrgio.

KAKALHS: Oi ``exefrones polites'' poy eipate kai einai kai enhmerwmenoi, apo aytoys to 26% leei oti den qewrei thn kybernhsh ajiopisth gia na proxwrhsei sthn epilysh toy Asfalistikoy. Ektimate oti yparxoyn kapoioi sygkekrimenoi logoi poy exei diamorfwqei ayth h gnwmh sthn koinh gnwmh gia thn kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na sxoliasw kamia dhmoskophsh.

KAKALHS: Prohgoymenws thn ajiopoihsate thn dhmoskophsh gia na peite oti yparxei mia symfwnia ths koinhs gnwmhs yper twn allagwn.

ANTWNAROS: Egw;

KAKALHS: Emmesa ayto eipate.

ANTWNAROS: H dikh moy ektimhsh einai, proswpikh moy ektimhsh poy einai kai ektimhsh ths kybernhshs, oti h megalh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, poy einai exefrones polites -gia na sas to pw gia mia akomh fora- antilambanontai oti prepei na doqoyn lyseis sta qemata poy synaptontai me to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras.

KAKALHS: Kai h dikh moy proswpikh ektimhsh einai oti einai antiqeth h pleiochfia. Ti na kanoyme;

ANTWNAROS: Malista. Eyxaristw gia th diatypwsh ths apochs sas poy mporeite na thn kataqesete ekei poy grafete.

GKOYTZANHS: Den jerw an qelete na sxoliasete h oxi kyrie Ekproswpe. Yparxei omws ena stoixeio to opoio exei endiaferon. Ontws oi Ellhnes polites se oles tis dhmoskophseis poy exoyn ginei symfwnoyn oti qa prepei na doqei mia lysh sto asfalistiko problhma. Exoyn omws epifylajeis apenanti stis lyseis poy proteinei h kybernhsh. Ayto qa prepei na to deite eniaio. Den mporeite na apomonwnete to ena apo to allo, oyte na kanete sofistikh kai na xrhsimopoieite to ena stoixeio gia na symperanete to allo.

ANTWNAROS: H megalyterh dhmoskophsh einai ayth poy egine stis 16 Septembrioy, opote oi Ellhnes polites me pleiochfia epifortisan th shmerinh kybernhsh na proxwrhsei stis metarryqmiseis kai na dwsei lyseis. Kai oi lyseis aytes dinontai.

PALAIOLOGOS: An para thn apofash ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei se kapoies ryqmiseis- den jerw an qa einai oi hpies h sklhres, eseis milate gia hpies ryqmiseis- entoytois omws para th stash ths kybernhshs oi polites kateboyn stoys dromoys, apo diafores koinwnikes omades, diafora tmhmata ths koinhs gnwmhs, poy deixnoyn oti, telos pantwn, antidroyn se ayto to sxedio ths kybernhshs, qa to parete pisw to Asfalistiko;

ANTWNAROS: Perimenete na apanthsw se ypoqetikes erwthseis tetoioy eidoys;

PALAIOLOGOS: Den einai ypoqetikh. Eipa oti o kosmos qa katebei stoys dromoys. Dedomenes einai oi arnhtikes antidraseis. An aytes foyntwsoyn, an aytes synexistoyn, tote h kybernhsh qa parei pisw to Asfalistiko;

ANTWNAROS: Ena ``an'', deytero ``an'', trito ``an'' kai perimenete na apanthsw se ``an'';

PALAIOLOGOS: Dhladh den qewreite oti einai arnhtikes oi antidraseis apo ton kosmo; Sthn oysia, dhladh, qewreite oti den einai arnhtikes oi antidraseis.

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei. Gia to qema toy Asfalistikoy den qa pw tipota allo.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den qa to parete pisw pantws se kamia periptwsh.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh, sas eipa, exei kataqesei sygkekrimenes protaseis gia to Asfalistiko.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, den qa ginoyn dektes omws. Twra, to prokatalambanw.

ANTWNAROS: Tis ektimhseis sas nomizw oti exete megalo bhma apo to opoio mporeite na tis diatypwnete.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai. H erwthsh moy einai: Qa aposyrete to Asfalistiko opws epraje kai h prohgoymenh kybernhsh, h kybernhsh Shmith ``aiwnia ths h mnhmh'';

ANTWNAROS: Kai sas apanthsa. H kybernhsh exei ypobalei, exei kataqesei sygkekrimenes protaseis, me tis opoies qa proxwrhsei sthn epilysh twn qematwn poy syndeontai me to asfalistiko systhma.

TSIOYFOS: Egw qa epimeinw. Qa epimeinw sth lejh ``exefrones''.Kai epeidh xrhsimopoihsate tis ekloges ws epixeirhma, qa sas pw oti to ypoloipo 59% toy ellhnikoy laoy, 58% kai kati telos pantwn, eixe diaforetikh apoch apo aytes tis apoceis poy kataqetei h kybernhsh shmera. Aytoi oi polites, to 58% kai kati, den einai ``exefrones polites'';

ANTWNAROS: Poios sas eipe oti egw anaferqhka sto 42% ws pososto twn exefronwn politwn;

TSIOYFOS: Ayto eipate. Emmesws plhn safws...

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, bebaiws. Den eipa egw ayto. Apodidete se emena pragmata ta opoia den eipa. Egw sas eipa oti h megalh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, kai se ayth th diakybernhsh kai sthn prohgoymenh diakybernhsh, exei diapistwsei ena pragma: Oti to asfalistiko systhma xreiazetai mia tomh, xreiazetai allages, xreiazetai metarryqmiseis.

TSIOYFOS: Bebaiws.

ANTWNAROS: Kai stis 16 Septembrioy basei toy Syntagmatos --kai qa sas to ypenqymisw ean den to qymaste-- h shmerinh kybernhsh me pleiochfia poy ths edwse o Ellhnikos laos, apolyth pleiochfia sth Boylh twn Ellhnwn, phre thn entolh na proxwrhsei sthn ylopoihsh toy programmatos ths. Kai menw se ayto.

TERZHS: Gia na epanelqw stis qeseis ths kybernhshs peri to Asfalistiko sth Boylh: Yphrje mia anafora toy Ypoyrgoy Apasxolhshs toy k. Maggina oti den symballei sthn prostasia ths mhtrothtas, sth syntajiodothsh twn mhterwn, otan ta paidia einai se hlikia 15,16 ews 17 etwn. Ayto ermhneythke apo toys dhmosiografoys alla kai apo toys polites, ws mia apeilh gia thn prowrh syntajiodothsh twn gynaikwn. Apotelesma na exoyme mazikes prowres ejodoys eis baros kai twn asfalismenwn kai twn Tameiwn. Poia einai h ayqentikh ermhneia ths kybernhshs sth sygkekrimenh, th diabasa lejh-lejh, anafora toy k. Maggina.

ANTWNAROS: Menw sth dhlwsh toy k. Maggina. Ayto to opoio moy lete peri ayjhmenwn aithsewn gia prowrh syntajiodothsh den prokyptei apo poyqena, apo oti gnwrizw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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