Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-11-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 21 Noembrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 107102286

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING 211107

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 21 Noembrioy 2007

Xairete.

" O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio to prwi, qa metabei sto Kentro Ekpaideyshs Neosyllektwn Polemikoy Naytikoy, ston Poro. Sas qymizw kati to opoio anakoinwsame -sth diarkeia twn prosfatwn pyrkagiwn toy Aygoystoy- oti apofasisthke se mia apo tis Kybernhtikes Epitropes poy synedriasan tote: Sto programma basikhs ekpaideyshs twn neosyllektwn na perilhfqei kai eidikh ekpaideysh gia zhthmata periballontos, dasoprostasias kai pyrasfaleias. Den einai proqesh ths kybernhshs na metatrecei toys fantaroys se pyrosbestes. Alla, einai proqesh ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei se sygxrones meqodoys ekpaideyshs sto strato, opws ginetai kai se alles eyrwpaikes xwres, etsi wste oi stratiwtes, ws polites sth synexeia -alla kai sth diarkeia ths qhteias toys- na gnwrizoyn kai na mporoyn na bohqhsoyn se antistoixes periptwseis, se deytereyoysas shmasias doyleies, oxi omws kai ypoleipomenes se ajia gia thn ypoqesh toy dasoys kai toy periballontos. Etsi, loipon, o Prwqypoyrgos qa episkefqei mia apo tis prwtes monades poy efarmozoyn to programma ayto sth basikh toys ekpaideysh. Ektos twn allwn, opws qa exete thn eykairia na parakoloyqhsete kai osoi metabeite ayrio ekei, ektos dhladh apo pyrasfaleia, dasoprostasia kai zhthmata periballontos, ginetai ekpaideysh twn neosyllektwn se zhthmata ygieinhs, se zhthmata asfaleias kai se zhthmata xrhshs Internet. Einai mia akomh prospaqeia, etsi wste na mhn isxyei ayto to opoio, dystyxws, gia polla xronia yparxei ws antilhch se polloys, dhladh oti otan phgainoyn sto strato einai xamenos xronos. Den einai kaqoloy xamenos xronos otan parakoloyqei tetoia ekpaideytika seminaria, poy se alles periptwseis, ws poliths qa mporoyse na parakoloyqhsei phgainontas se antistoixes sxoles kai plhrwnontas to timhma poy yparxei gi` ayta.

" Xqes, rwthqhka gia ena qanato sta Katexomena. Qa hqela na pw oti, sth fash ayth, to qema exei idiwtiko xarakthra. H oikogeneia toy qanontos enhmerwnei thn kypriakh kybernhsh, h opoia ejetazei kai ereyna ta pragmatika peristatika. H ellhnikh Presbeia sth Leykwsia einai se epafh me tis kypriakes Arxes kai enhmerwnetai gia thn ejelijh ths ypoqeshs.

" Qa shmeiwsw, kleinontas ta eisagwgika moy sxolia, oti to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, antapokrinomeno sthn apaithsh twn politwn gia apodotikoterh, apotelesmatikoterh kai diafanh diaxeirish twn porwn toy Dhmosioy, proxwrhse sto sxediasmo kai thn enarjh ylopoihshs shmantikwn metarryqmisewn gia ton eksygxronismo ths dhmosionomikhs diaxeirishs, me stoxo th beltiwsh ths poiothtas twn parexomenwn dhmosiwn agaqwn kai yphresiwn. Stis metarryqmiseis aytes perilambanetai kai h allagh toy tropoy katartishs, ekteleshs, parakoloyqhshs kai ajiologhshs toy Kratikoy Proypologismoy, mesw ths yioqethshs morfhs proypologismoy programmatwn, anti toy gnwstoy ews shmera, proypologismoy kondyliwn. Me th nea ayth morfh proypologismwn, kaqistatai eykoloterh h katagrafh kai o elegxos ths apodotikothtas twn dhmosiwn dapanwn, elegxetai h apotelesmatikothta twn diaforwn drasewn kai to kostos kaqe programmatos, parexetai h dynatothta polyetoys programmatismoy kai enisxyetai h diafaneia sth diaxeirish twn dhmosiwn oikonomikwn. O proypologismos kondyliwn, opws katartizetai shmera kai opws eixe thn eykairia na pei kai o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, xqes, sth diarkeia toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, paroysiazei sobares adynamies, shmantikoteres apo tis opoies einai to oti den yparxei safhs apeikonish twn politikwn kai twn drasewn poy xrhmatodotoyntai, kaqws epishs kai twn forewn poy tis ylopoioyn. Se arketes kratikes politikes mporei na emplekontai perissoteroi toy enos foreis. H synarmodiothta pollwn forewn, o elliphs syntonismos prokalei epikalyceis, spatalh porwn kai meiwmenh apotelesmatikothta. Epishs, mia allh adynamia einai oti de ginetai eparkhs ajiologhsh twn apotelesmatwn poy paragontai apo tis dhmosies politikes. Oi ajiologhseis ginontai apospasmatika, oxi systhmatika kai to kyriotero, den syndeontai amesa me toys ylikoys kai anqrwpinoys poroys poy diatiqentai. Antiqetws, o proypologismos programmatwn den apotelei mono diaforetikh apotypwsh kai paroysiash toy Kratikoy Proypologismoy, alla synepagetai synolikh diaforopoihsh ths askhshs dhmosionomikhs diaxeirishs kai kat` epektash ths leitoyrgias toy dhmosioy tomea. Gia thn epityxhmenh eisagwgh toy, kyria proypoqesh apotelei, bebaiws, h synainesh kai h isxyrh boylhsh olwn, gia th metabash sto neo systhma, boylhsh toso ths nomoqetikhs, oso kai ths ektelestikhs ejoysias.

O proypologismos programmatwn apotelei ena systhma diaxeirishs proypologismoy poy exei ta ejhs xarakthristika:

H kathgoriopoihsh twn dhmosiwn dapanwn ginetai me krithrio tis politikes kai ta programmata poy xrhmatodotoyntai, kaqws epishs kai tis epimeroys draseis poy yphretoyn toys stoxoys twn en logw politikwn. H dieqnhs apoch sympyknwnei tis leitoyrgies enos kratoys stis ejhs kathgories: Amyna, Ejwterikes Ypoqeseis, Qhsayrofylakio, Dikaiosynh, Draseis gia ton Anqrwpo kai to Periballon. Dieqneis organismoi exoyn epejergastei montela-protypa sto plaisio ayths ths kathgoriopoihshs. Tetoio montelo apotelei h tajinomhsh twn leitoyrgiwn toy kratoys poy exei yioqethqei apo to Dieqnes Nomismatiko Tameio, ton Organismo Oikonomikhs Synergasias kai Anaptyjhs kai ton Organismo Hnwmenwn Eqnwn. Oi diafores xwres epilegoyn kathgoriopoihseis me bash ta parapanw, lambanontas, omws, ypoch kai tis idiaiterothtes toys. H kathgoriopoihsh enos proypologismoy programmatwn synhqws perilambanei tria h tessera epipeda. Sto prwto epipedo apotypwnontai oi basikoi tomeis politikhs enos kratoys (periballon, dikaiosynh kai alla) poy synantwntai kai me toys oroys ``apostoles'' h ``leitoyrgies''. Sto deytero kai trito epipedo  opoy yfistatai trito epipedo- katagrafontai ta programmata kai ta ypoprogrammata poy ejyphretoyn ton kaqe tomea. Kaqe programma h ypoprogramma analyetai se draseis poy apoteloyn kai to teleytaio epipedo ejeidikeyshs ths ylopoihshs kaqe programmatos. Se kaqe programma katagrafontai oloi oi poroi poy diatiqentai gia thn epiteyjh twn stoxwn. Epanalambanw, poroi ylikoi kai anqrwpinoi. Se ola ta epipeda, leitoyrgies, programmata, draseis, tiqentai genikoi kai eidikoi stoxoi kai opoy einai efikto, metrhsimoi deiktes, gia na einai dynath h antikeimenikh ajiologhsh twn apotelesmatwn poy paragontai apo tis kratikes draseis. Oi poroi, oi eisroes dhladh kai ta apotelesmata, oi ekroes, kaqe drashs sysxetizontai.

Sto plaisio ayto, to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias synetaje kai paroysiase xqes eidikh ekdosh ``Proypologismos programmatwn 2008'', h opoia synodeyei ton Kratiko Proypologismo toy 2008. Stoxos toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn einai h eidikh ayth ekdosh na apotelesei entos toy epomenoy etoys th bash enhmerwshs gia tis allages poy qa ferei o neos tropos katartishs, ekteleshs, parakoloyqhshs kai ajiologhshs toy proypologismoy, lhchs apofasewn gia diorqwseis sto yfistameno systhma katartishs kai parakoloyqhshs toso toy taktikoy proypologismoy, oso kai toy proypologismoy dhmosiwn ependysewn, kaqws epishs kai ston tropo diaxeirishs twn Eidikwn Logariasmwn, wste na elaxistopoihqoyn ta problhmata, kata to stadio metabashs sto neo systhma. Giati, sto neo systhma den mporei na metabei kaneis apo th mia xronia sthn allh. Qa xreiastoyn kapoia xronia na mporesoyme na to akoloyqhsoyme plhrws. Kai bebaiws, dialogos me ta ypoyrgeia kai toys loipoys foreis gia th beltiwsh kai peraiterw analysh toy Eqnikoy Sxedioy Programmatwn poy paroysiazetai.

Qa prepei na shmeiwqei oti o proypologismos programmatwn poy paroysiazetai, einai h prwth apotypwsh. Bebaiws, qa yparjei peraiterw epejergasia, se synergasia toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn me toys ypoloipoys emplekomenoys foreis. Orismena programmata h kai leitoyrgies poy apotypwnontai sto Eqniko Sxedio Programmatwn, einai profanes oti sthn plhrh anaptyjh toy neoy systhmatos, qa diaforopoihqoyn shmantika. Einai mia shmantikh allagh, h opoia, opws eipa, mas odhgei apo toys proypologismoys kondyliwn stoys proypologismoys programmatwn, organwnei dhladh kalytera thn kratikh domh, th xwra, sto epipedo ths oikonomias kai ths diaxeirishs twn Dhmosiwn Oikonomikwn.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

XIDIROGLOY: Mas kanate logo gia ajiologhsh programmatwn. Egw qa hqela na maqw apo sas, toylaxiston osa mporeite na moy peite, giati ap` o,ti katalabainw ayto einai se arxiko stadio, ti shmainei ayto, oson afora thn ajiologhsh toy anqrwpinoy dynamikoy, dhladh, ti allages qa prokalesei sth diaxeirish toy anqrwpinoy dynamikoy poy yphretei toys polites sto dhmosio tomea.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ena prwto shmantiko bhma to opoio egine. Ean kapoios diabasei to synodeytiko entypo, dhladh ton proypologismo programmatwn, qa diapistwsei oti yparxei idiaiterh analysh se qemata Ypoyrgeioy Politismoy -egine ena pilotiko programma sta qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Politismoy- kai apo kei mporei na bgalei symperasmata. An phgainei to myalo sas se proslhceis h apolyseis  apolyseis den ginontai oytws h allws, opws gnwrizete, sto Dhmosio- den exei na kanei me ayto. Exei na kanei me thn kalyterh dynath diaxeirish twn porwn, eite einai oikonomikoi eite anqrwpinoy dynamikoy. Antilambanetai kapoios pws otan sxediastei ena programma, analyqei to programma kai anateqei se sygkekrimena proswpa, mporei na to parakoloyqhsei kalytera sthn poreia ths ekteleshs toy. Kai mporei na exei kalytera apotelesmata. Odhgoymaste, loipon, se alloy typoy diaxeirish, h opoia hdh isxyei se orismenes xwres. Einai shmantiko oti h Ellada einai apo tis prwtes xwres poy arxizoyn na to efarmozoyn. Kai einai shmantiko oti fetos synodeyetai o Proypologismos apo ton proypologismo programmatwn. Ajizei na rijei kapoios mia matia, dioti qa diapistwsei oti den xreiazetai, eidika gi` ayto to teyxos, na exei apolytws ejeidikeymenes gnwseis, opws xreiazetai gia to allo teyxos toy Proypologismoy na katanohsei ton tropo me ton opoio qa leitoyrgei apo edw kai pera -h qa prospaqhsoyme sta epomena liga xronia na leitoyrgei apo edw kai pera- o neos Proypologismos toy kratoys.

KAKALHS: ``Proxwroyme gia to Asfalistiko sth bash twn qesewn poy anaptyjame toso proeklogika oso kai meteklogika'' eipe xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio o Prwqypoyrgos kai hqela na rwthsw mhpws exei jexasei kati apo osa elege proeklogika; Gia toy logoy to alhqes qa anaferw ti elege sthn omilia toy sthn kentrikh epitroph ths Neas Dhmokratias stis 23 Aygoystoy: `` H xrhmatodothsh toy Asfalistikoy systhmatos kai h ejeyresh prosqetwn porwn ejasfalizontai me th staqerh anodikh poreia ths oikonomias poy hdh exoyme petyxei kai oxi me prosqetoys poroys kai eisfores. Diasfalizoyme taytoxrona oysiastikh dhmosionomikh ejygiansh kai epomenws meiwsh twn dapanwn toy spataloy kai anapotelesmatikoy kratoys. Etsi, se monimh bash ejeyriskontai prosqeth kai eparkeis poroi gia thn koinwnikh asfalish xwris ayjhsh twn oriwn hlikias kai meiwsh twn syntajewn''. Ayta ta tria ``den'' poy eixe pei proeklogika o Prwqypoyrgos, mporeite na ta epanalabete shmera;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayta isxyoyn akeraia kai shmera.

KAKALHS: Ti sxesh exoyn me tis ejaggelies poy proxwraei h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete kai apanthsh h monon erwthsh;

KAKALHS: ( Den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pisteyw oti ta erwthmata exoyn apanthqei kai thn perasmenh ebdomada giati nomizw antistoixa eginan kai tote. Se oti afora to oria hlikias, ta eipa xqes. Den xreiazetai na ta epanalabw kai shmera, molis 24 wres argotera. Se oti afora thn kratikh enisxysh, bebaiws kai yparxei h kratikh enisxysh h opoia prepei na enisxyqei. Kai nomizw oti molis prin apo liges hmeres eixate thn eykairia oloi sas na diapistwsete oti ayto to opoio den egine epi kapoia xronia, oxi xrewnontas to kat anagkh sthn mia h sthn allh kybernhsh, ginetai pia me thn enisxysh twn kratikwn eisforwn. Dhladh, to kratos qa thrhsei kai threi ston proypologismo toy 2008 tis ypoxrewseis poy exei apenanti sta Tameia. Apenanti sto IKA sto opoio qymaste kala oti nomos toy k. Reppa proeblepe to 1% kaqe xrono ews to 2008 kai 1% staqera ews to 2032, an den me apata h mnhmh moy. Anaferetai loipon se ayta o Prwqypoyrgos kai se ekeinh thn omilia toy kai se ayta anaferomai kai egw shmera. Se oti afora ta oria hlikias kai th meiwsh twn syntajewn, nomizw oti exoyn apanthqei eparkws kai edw kai sth Boylh apo ton k. Maggina.

KAKALHS:Me sygxwreite alla oi enopoihseis twn Tameiwn ayto akribws kanoyn. Kai ayjanontai ta oria hlikias se polles xiliades ergazomenwn kai ejomoiwnontai oi syntajeis pros ta katw kai yparxei kai meiwsh syntajewn. Ayto to amfisbhteite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi enopoihseis twn Tameiwn, opws eipa xqes, prosferoyn mia seira apo pleonekthmata sthn orqoterh leitoyrgia, sthn pio noikokyremenh leitoyrgia enos systhmatos. Antilambanetai kapoios oti einai diaforetiko na leitoyrgoyn 170  175 Tameia - 150  155, osa qelete dhladh einai analoga me to mikra, mesaia h megala - kai diaforetiko na leitoyrgoyn poly ligotera Tameia. Den qigetai h perioysia kanenos Tameioy, ayto exei eipwqei apo ton k. Maggina, sas to lew kai egw kat epanalhch edw. To noikokyrema to opoio epiballetai na ginei, bohqaei ta idia ta Tameia. Kai qa bohqhsei sigoyra kai toys asfalismenoys. Sas eipa xqes ton aplo ariqmo twn 2.000  2.500 melwn Dioikhtikwn Symboyliwn poy qa meiwqoyn se majimoym 150. Kai mono ayto, an to dei kapoios ws stoixeio allaghs toy systhmatos, pros th qetikh kateyqynsh mporei na to krinei.

GKOYTZANHS: Eseis ektos apo Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos eisaste kai prwhn dhmosiografos kai exete kai ton epikoinwniako xeirismo ths olhs ypoqeshs. Exete symbalei se aytes tis wraies allages poy ginontai sto Tameio twn dhmosiografwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eyxaristw poly kat arxas gia thn krish thn opoia kanete gia thn kybernhtikh politikh, anaferomenos stis wraies allages.

GKOYTZANHS: Parakalw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai eilikrina xairomai poy sas aresei ayth h allagh giati qewrw oti qa bohqhsei to Asfalistiko Systhma kai qa bohqhsei kai toys asfalismenoys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia to qema toy Asfalistikoy. Epeidh blepoyme para ta osa diakhryssei h kybernhsh oti den qigontai ta oria hlikias stis syntajeis kai den meiwnontai oi syntajeis, wstoso kai oi syndikalistes alla kai oi polites kai oi ergazomenoi antidroyn. Fobatai loipon h kybernhsh koinwnikh anataraxh me aformh tis ejaggelies, gia apergies prosexws;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To Asfalistiko, opws eipa kai xqes, den einai ena eykolo zhthma. Kai bebaiws qa yparjoyn antidraseis, qa yparjoyn syzhthseis, antiparaqeseis. Emeis qeloyme aytes tis syzhthseis, ton epoikodomhtiko dialogo, prokeimenoy na katanohsoyn oloi, eite einai emplekomenoi eite oxi, - se baqos xronoy oloi einai emplekomenoi, giati me to Asfalistiko Systhma oloi ofeiloyme na gnwrizoyme ti symbainei kai ti qa symbei sto mellon. Poia einai ta epomena bhmata kai ths kybernhshs, alla kai poia einai ta epomena bhmata an den ginei twra kati sto Asfalistiko.

PEPONHS: Mhpws sas ejhghse o k. Magginas, gia na to ejhghste kai eseis se emas, me poia krithria enopoiei ena Tameio misqwtwn opws einai twn dhmosiografwn me kapoia Tameia eleyqerwn epaggelmatiwn poy exoyn alloys poroys, diaforetikh diadikasia stis eisfores;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me krithrio oti den mporei na meinei ena Tameio mono toy. Dioti antilambaneste oti qa dhmioyrgeito h ceydhs kai lanqasmenh entypwsh oti oi dhmosiografoi epiqymoyn na einai jexwristoi apo oloys toys alloys Ellhnes, pragma to opoio nomizw prwtoi oi dhmosiografoi den qa hqelan.

PEPONHS: Den yparxei ena Tameio stoys ergazomenoys ston Typo yparxoyn para polla. Kai ayth einai h protash kai twn ergazomenwn ston Typo: Na ginei ena Tameio eniaio aytwn poy ergazontai sta MME. Yparxoyn para polla Tameia. An ta cajei o k. Magginas qa ta brei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ontws polla ta Tameia. Allwste den qa efqanan se synolota 170  175 Tameia, an den htan polla se diaforoys epimeroys tomeis. Antilambanetai kapoios omws, oti otan prospaqei na sygkentrwsei, na synenwsei Tameia, ofeilei na dei to synolo kai to geniko kalo kai oxi to kalo enos mono kladoy. An ayto qewreite oti einai to kalo enos mono kladoy. Giati proswpika pisteyw oti den einai kaqoloy kako gia enan klado na symmetexei se ena Tameio, poy qa exei mesa toy alla Tameia ejisoy isxyrwn kladwn. Epishs epanalambanw oti o ariqmos twn Tameiwn einai ontws megalos, einai peripoy 8 h 10. Kapoy ekei. O ariqmos twn ergazomenwn einai poly mikroteros apo oti se alla Tameia poy einai ena h dyo monon.

SARANTAKOS: Ta osa leei o k. Magginas to teleytaio diasthma se ekproswpoys koinwnikwn omadwn, apoteloyn apofaseis h einai antikeimeno pros dialogo, poy shmainei oti endexomenws h kybernhsh kapoia stigmh na katanohsei kai ta aithmata twn ergazomenwn kai na allajei ligo thn politikh ths se ayto to qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan proserxesai se dialogo, proserxesai me tis dikes soy apoceis, tis opoies kai kataqeteis. Sas qymizw oti enas apo toys logoys poy den proshlqe sth Boylh h GSEE -de qymamai an htan kai h ADEDY- htan oti epemenan na katateqoyn apoceis prin arxisei o dialogos. Me to poy arxise o dialogos, emeis kataqesame tis apoceis. Perimenoyme kai tis apoceis twn ypoloipwn, twn symmetexontwn sto dialogo.

SARANTAKOS: Ara, lete oti oi apoceis toy k. Maggina einai syzhthsimes. Den jekinaei apo mia bash dedomenwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Lew oti aytes einai oi apoceis ths kybernhshs. Mporei na akoysoyme mia apoch h opoia einai akomh kalyterh. Gia paradeigma, diabaza oti sto programma toy PASOK problepetai h dhmioyrgia triwn omadwn Tameiwn: Ena gia ton OGA, ena gia toys ergazomenoys kai ena gia toys ergodotes. Emeis de leme tria Tameia ola kai ola. Emeis leme perissotera Tameia, giati pisteyoyme oti h metabash apo ta 175 sta tria, einai ena isxyro sok to opoio den prepei na ginei. Pisteyoyme oti qa prepei na ginei mia pio hpia metabash. Kai ayth thn hpia metabash diapistwnei kapoios diabazontas tis qeseis ths kybernhshs.

TERZHS: Anarwtiemai giati h kybernhsh den paroysiase tis sygkekrimenes qeseis mesa sth Boylh, otan syzhthqhkan oi sygxwneyseis. Ayto einai to prwto erwthma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti thn epomenh ebdomada h Epitroph exei kai allh synedriash. H kybernhsh protiqetai na anakoinwsei ekei kai tis ypoloipes apo tis qeseis ths. Wstoso, parallhlws qewrei xrhsimo na syzhta me syndikalistikoys foreis -opws kai epraje o k. Magginas- kai oxi mono me to Tameio twn Dhmosiografwn, giati alliws qa qewreito oti yparxei eidikh metaxeirish gia toys dhmosiografoys, pragma to opoio, den epiqymei oyte h kybernhsh, oyte kai oi dhmosiografoi.

TERZHS: Ara, qa epanelqei, katanow, ws qema kai sth Boylh to zhthma twn sygxwneysewn sthn epomenh synedriash ths Epitrophs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Hdh, syzhthqhke to qema twn sygxwneysewn sthn prohgoymenh synedriash ths Epitrophs. Egine anafora.

TERZHS: De syzhthqhke, omws, se ayto to epipedo. Syzhthqhke gia eji ews oktw tameia. Htan mia genikh anafora.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayth h genikh anafora poy egine, perilambanei kai ta Eidika, ta opoia syzhthqhkan xqes, h proxqes, otan egine h synanthsh sthn Enwsh Syntaktwn.

TERZHS: Na synexisw. Gia na fygoyme apo to kladiko, hqela na rwthsw, to ejhs: H kybernhsh, sthn prwth periodo diakybernhshs mexri kai ton Septembrio, prospaqhse, h perase kapoies diatajeis eynoikhs syntajiodotikhs metaxeirishs sygkekrimenwn kathgoriwn. Genikoi Grammateis Ypoyrgeiwn, Dieyqyntes Dhmosiwn Yphresiwn klp. Yparxei kapoio stoixeio aytokritikhs, me bash ayta poy syzhtame twra, gia to Asfalistiko, se aytes tis tote epiloges ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na ginete sygkekrimenos, oytws wste na mporesw, -an oxi twra, ayrio- na parw sygkekrimenh qesh; Giati se ayto poy moy anaferete, den mporw na pw kati shmera.

TERZHS: Den eimai proxeiros. Epifylassomai na sas ferw th diatajh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ws genikh anafora, qa sas pw oti kai egw eimai kata twn diakrisewn. Kai nomizw oti kaqe Ellhnas poliths einai kata twn diakrisewn kai den xreiazetai na epixeirhmatologhsw perissotero gi` ayto. Alla an exete kapoies eidikes anafores, na moy tis peite.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, giati h kybernhsh de sygxwneyei ta noikokyremena Tameia, ta eyrwsta Tameia, na ta balei ola mazi kai ta elleimmatika na ta balei jexwrista kai na ta sygxwneysei kai na ta noikokyrecei kai ayta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai mia syzhthsh poy ginetai ayth th stigmh sth Boylh kai qa synexisei na ginetai sth Boylh. Qa akoystoyn apoceis enqen kakeiqen kai qa lhfqoyn oi telikes apofaseis. Den exw na sas pw kati allo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati bazei omws elleimmatika Tameia, mesa se eyrwsta; Gia na paroyn ap` aytoys poy htan... ..

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa mporoyse na anarwthqei, loipon, kapoios pws kapoia Tameia einai elleimmatika kai pws kapoia alla einai eyrwsta. Poioi einai oi poroi oi opoioi phgainoyn se ena Tameio kai poioi einai oi poroi poy phgainoyn se allo. An gia ena Tameio plhrwnei enas megalos ariqmos twn Ellhnwn, bebaiws einai eyrwsto. An omws den plhrwnei enas megalos ariqmos twn Ellhnwn -ennow poy den exoyn kamia sxesh me to Tameio- den qa einai eyrwsto. Kata synepeia, den einai mia aplh syzhthsh, oyte kai eykolh gia kanenan. Otan lew eykolh, ennow oti qa yparxoyn epixeirhmata apo oles tis pleyres. Akoyw to diko sas epixeirhma, yparxoyn kai epixeirhmata apo thn allh pleyra. Aifnhs, ayto poy sas eipa einai ena shmantiko epixeirhma. Yparxoyn Tameia, sta opoia o poros proerxetai apo th syndromh enos megaloy meroys twn Ellhnwn -xwris na einai asfalismenoi se ayta ta Tameia- kai Tameia sta opoia o poros proerxetai mono apo toys asfalismenoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Anafereste sto TSPEAQ.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn Tameia, sta opoia oi asfalismenoi plhrwnoyn mikroterh eisfora apo to analogiko poso poy plhrwnoyn se alla Tameia. Yparxoyn, dhladh, shmantikes leitoyrgikes adynamies enos systhmatos to opoio odhgeitai me maqhmatikh akribeia se kapoia xronia -gia alla Tameia se ligotera, gia alla Tameia se perissotera- se katarreysh. Ayto einai poy prospaqei na prolabei h kybernhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Anafereste sto TSPEAQ, dhladh, etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw ekana tis anafores moy.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh eipate gia diakritikh metaxeirish. Xrhsimopoihsate dyo-treis fores sthn ekfrash to oti den mporoyn oi dhmosiografoi na exoyn eidikh metaxeirish. Nomizw, oti pragmati exoyn mia eidikh metaxeirish. To erwthma moy einai, giati jekinaei ayth th diadikasia h kybernhsh apo ena ygies Tameio, opws einai twn dhmosiografwn poy exei kai biwsimothta arketes dekaeties mprosta toy, xwris na ginei kamia allagh kai den jekinaei, gia paradeigma, apo ekeina ta Tameia poy exoyn problhma. Opws epishs, an qelei na dwsei to kalo paradeigma, giati den jekinaei apo to Tameio twn boyleytwn h to Tameio twn dikastwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, den qa ejaireqei apo th diadikasia kaneis, gia na mhn yparxei kanenos eidoys aisqhsh oti ayth h kybernhsh diakrinei ton opoiodhpote. Dhladh, syzhthseis ginontai kai qa ginontai gia ola ta Tameia kai fysika kai gia to Tameio twn boyleytwn, poy anaferate, h twn dikastikwn. Deyteron, kanate kapoio laqos. Isws epeidh arxisate na asxoleiste me to qema ``Asfalistiko'' apo th stigmh poy episkefqhke o k. Magginas thn Enwsh Syntaktwn Hmerhsiwn Efhmeridwn Aqhnwn. Sas qymizw oti asxolhqhke thn idia hmera, episkeptomenos kai to Dikhgoriko Syllogo Aqhnwn kai exei hdh syzhthsei kai me alloys syndikalistikoys foreis. Ara, loipon, den egennhqhsan ta panta thn hmera poy eseis nomizete, me toys dhmosiografoys.

GKOYTZANHS: Epitrecte moy na sas pw, epeidh eimai kai syndikalisths, oti asxoloymai polla xronia, toylaxiston me to Asfalistiko twn dhmosiografwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws, alla en prokeimenw sas lew kai sas apodeiknyw oti thn idia hmera eseis oi idioi oi dhmosiografoi gracate oti o k. Magginas synanthqhke kai me to Dikhgoriko Syllogo Aqhnwn. Einai h den einai alhqes; Einai. Ara, loipon, mh moy lete oti jekinhse me toys dhmosiografoys. Syzhthse kai me th GSEE. Eixe episkefqei th GSEE, sas qymizw -prin apo dyo ebdomades.

GKOYTZANHS: Den eida na ekane kapoia protash sthn GSEE.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To an eidate h den eidate, h an gracate h den gracate, ayto afora kai esas en merei. O k. Magginas, omws, episkefqhke prin apo oloys toys alloys, th GSEE ws prwto syndikalistiko organo. Thn ESHEA, thn episkefqhke sthn poreia. Aplws, apo thn hmera poy thn episkefqhke, arxise mia poly megalh dhmosiothta, ennoeitai, olws tyxaiws.

KAKALHS: Sto kefalaio enopoihseis Tameiwn kai xqes kai shmera kai genikotera h kybernhsh anadeiknyei to zhthma toy noikokyrematos, dhladh, ths oikonomias poy qa epelqei apo thn kalyterh diaxeirish twn Tameiwn me ta ligotera...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa, sygxwneyseis.

KAKALHS: Nai, sygxwneyseis- enopoihseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi synolika, giati alimono an lynotan to qema mono apo ayto. Qa htan isws poly pio eykolo.

KAKALHS: Den lete omws tipote gia to pws katedafizontai mia seira asfalistika dikaiwmata. Dhladh, exoyme ayjhseis kai stis kyries syntajeis kai stis epikoyrikes. Stis prwtes, mexri 14%, stis alles mexri 43% kai epishs ayjhseis twn oriwn hlikias, epeidh paei sta 65. Katargeitai h 35aetia klp. Ayta ola, dhladh, den erxontai se antiqesh me ayta poy leei o Prwqypoyrgos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den paei sta 65. Gia toys andres einai sta 65 kai sta 60 gia tis gynaikes. H syzhthsh poy ginetai den afora  kai sas to eipa kai xqes- thn peraiterw ayjhsh twn oriwn hlikias. An kapoios ergazomenos qelhsei na meinei, an dhladh eseis me to kalo, otan eiste 65 etwn den exete symplhrwsei ta xronia, ta opoia problepontai gia na parete syntajh, qelhsete na meinete kai allo, qa exete to dikaiwma na meinete gia alla tria xronia. Qa exete to dikaiwma, epilektika, etsi;

KAKALHS: Qa mporoyse na bgei kapoios prin ta 65...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma kai twra qa bgainei kapoios prin ta 65. Den qa einai oloi sta 65. Egw, dhladh, poy jekinhsa apo ta 18 na ergazomai, poly nwritera qa syntajiodothqw poly nwritera. H eseis an jekinhsate apo ta 18, h o k. Sarantakos poy mallon jekinhse poly nwris, h o k. Stamatopoylos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Na rwthsw kati: Qa balete ergodotikh eisfora twra poy qa ginei h enopoihsh twn Tameiwn; Toy dikoy mas toy Tameioy me alla;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanoyme mia syzhthsh edw poy exei mpei hdh se kapoio baqos. Opoiesdhpote alles leptomereies qa syzhthqoyn sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs. Kai apo th stigmh poy qa syzhthqoyn sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs, me poly xara qa to koybentiasoyme kai edw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ypainixqhkate gia kapoio poro poy pairnoyme apo ton ellhniko lao.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den ypainixqhka.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O poros aytos einai h ergodotikh eisfora. Balte ergodotikh eisfora (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: An anafereste pali sto Tameio twn dhmosiografwn, o k. Magginas eipe poly sygkekrimena pragmata sthn ESHEA. Nomizw oti exete enhmerwqei oloi oi dhmosiografoi.

XIDIROGLOY: Qa epimeinw sto Asfalistiko. Na qesw omws mia allh diastash. Den jerw an exei syzhthqei arketa, dedomenoy malista oti h analogia ergazomenwn kai asfalismenwn einai tetoia sta asfalistika Tameia poy yponomeyetai th biwsimothta toys. H kybernhsh dedomenoy toy dhmografikoy problhmatos kai ths ypogennhtikothtas sthn Ellada, giati ola lene oti eimaste mia xwra poy gernaei, exei ypoch ths na yioqethsei kapoies politikes, ektos apo ta metra poy exoyn basei twn programmatikwn sas dhlwsewn sto parelqon efarmostei h einai pros efarmogh; Kapoia metra enisxyshs ths oikogeneias; Giati ta Tameia gia na epibiwsoyn panw ap` ola, xreiazontai ergazomenoys kai neoys anqrwpoys poy mpainoyn sta Tameia kai ta enisxyoyn me tis eisfores toys. Yparxoyn kapoies politikes; Exei melethqei to zhthma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi politikes exoyn melethqei kai einai hdh se efarmogh. Anaferomai, aifnhs, sthn politikh gia tis triteknes oikogeneies. Gnwrizete poly kala oti exei ekplhrwqei to 99% twn oswn exoyme pei. Kai apo tis arxes toy 2008 ekplhrwnetai kai to ypoloipo, opws exei dhlwsei kai o Prwqypoyrgos stis programmatikes mas dhlwseis. Eipa kai xqes -h proxqes- otan rwthqhka, oti yparxoyn syzhthseis kai protaseis gia th mhtrothta kai thn enisxysh ths periodoy kyhshs kai sth synexeia toy prwtoy etoys isws h twn prwtwn etwn toy paidioy, tis opoies qa tis analysei o k. Magginas. Yparxoyn kapoies politikes poy qa anakoinwqoyn sthn poreia. To skeftomaste kai ayto.

ROYMELIWTHS: Exoyme neotera sto qema ths Olympiakhs; Exei dromologhqei lysh; Kai deyteron, se ligotero apo ena mhna, jekinaei h eortastikh periodos. Exei ginei kapoia kinhsh apo to Ypoyrgeio Metaforwn, etsi wste na ejasfalistei toso h asfaleia twn epibatwn oso kai na mhn talaipwrhqoyn, giati qa yparjei kai poly megalh zhthsh aytes tis hmeres.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prin apo ligo, htan ston Prwqypoyrgo o k. Xatzidakhs kai nomizw oti ejerxomenos toy Megaroy Majimoy, exei kanei dhlwseis. Den gnwrizw leptomereies, wste na sas pw ti exei pei. Opote qa meinw s` ayta kai an yparxei kati poy xreiazetai dieykrinish, to syzhtame pali ayrio.

PALAIOLOGOS: Se sxesh me ton Proypologismo, paroti einai o prwtos proypologismos meta thn arsh ths epithrhshs, h meta thn ejodo apo th diadikasia ths epithrhshs, fainetai kai para tis kybernhtikes ejaggelies, fainetai kai to tonizw to ``fainetai'', na sthrizei pali se ayto poy leme forologikh epidromh, foroi sta kaysima, foroi sta akinhta kai eidika sta mesaia akinhta, h sta mikromesaia akinhta, sth mikrh akinhth perioysia. Telika, para to gegonos, oti qelate na kanete enan proypologismo programmatwn, mallon se kondylia apo ta eyrytera mesaia strwmata sthrizeste, h kanw laqos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi isxyrismoi gia forologikh epibarynsh twn noikokyriwn, oi opoioi diatypwqhkan kai apo thn erwthsh sas -alla eida kai se shmerina dhmosieymata- dhmioyrgoyn ceydeis entypwseis. Kai dhmioyrgoyn ceydeis entypwseis giati sthrizontai se ayqairetes ypoqeseis. O Proypologismos toy 2008 problepei ayjhsh esodwn se sxesh me to 2007, kata 6,2 dis eyrw. Apo ayta, ta 2,2 dis eyrw, proerxontai apo thn amesh forologia, ta 4 dis eyrw apo thn emmesh. H ayjhsh twn forologikwn esodwn gia to 2008, kata kyrio logo, qa proelqei: Prwton, apo thn ayjhsh toy Akaqaristoy Eqnikoy Proiontos, opoy anamenetai na yparjei ayjhsh poy ektimatai sto 7%. Kata synepeia den ofeiletai se ayjhsh h se epibolh kapoioy foroy sto eisodhma. Deyteron, apo thn anaptyjh ths oikonomias poy problepetai na kinhqei gyrw sto 4%. Triton, apo thn antimetwpish forodiafyghs kai laqremporioy. Oson afora toys aploys forologoymenoys, an moy epitrepete ayth thn ekfrash, apo ton Proypologismo toy 2008 prokyptei oti: Apo thn 1.1.2008 to aforologhto ayjanetai stis 12.000 eyrw gia kaqe forologoymeno, apo 11.000 eyrw poy htan to 2007. Kai sto opoio poso eixe, epishs, symballei sthn ayjhsh toy h prohgoymenh kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Ayto shmainei oti 3.300.000 forologoymenoi apallassontai plhrws apo to foro. Epanalambanw: 3.300.000 forologoymenoi apallassontai plhrws apo to foro. Meiwnontai dyo forologikoi syntelestes se 27% kai se 37%, apo 29% kai 39% poy htan to 2007. Kai se ayto to pososto eixan meiwqei, epishs, apo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias, giati palaiotera htan akomh ychloteroi. Oi syntelestes aytoi to 2009 qa einai 25% o prwtos, 35% o deyteros. Sas qymizw oti einai ryqmish poy exei chfistei me nomo toy kratoys. Kai ypenqymizw oti o prwtos syntelesths htan 30% kai o deyteros htan 40%. Apo thn 1.1.2008 katargoyntai oi foroi klhronomias kai gonikwn paroxwn oi opoioi kymainontai apo 5% ews 30% ths ajias twn akinhtwn kai qa forologoyntai me syntelesth 1%. Apo 1.1.2008 apallassetai plhrws apo foroys  plhn twn dhmotikwn telwn- h apokthsh prwths katoikias. Akomh, me ton Proypologismo toy 2008, h kybernhsh kanei prajh tis desmeyseis ths gia toys koinwnika asqenesteroys sympolites mas. H syntajh toy OGA, apo thn 1 Ianoyarioy toy 2008 diamorfwnetai se 330 eyrw, apo 280 eyrw poy diamorfwqhke to 2007. Einai h apolyth apodeijh oti h desmeysh mas ginetai prajh. H syntajh toy EKAS sta 230 eyrw, dhladh ayjhmeno kata 18% kai se ayto to poso sas qymizw oti kanoyme prajh th desmeysh mas kai toy epidomatos anergias sta 404 eyrw. Dhladh, ayjhmeno kata 10% se sxesh me to 2007. Xorhgeitai, opws eipa kai nwritera, me aformh allh erwthsh, to polytekniko epidoma stis triteknes oikogeneies kai katargeitai plhrws to xartoshmo 3,6%, to opoio epibarynei ta enoikia twn spitiwn. Prokeitai gia metro poy enisxyei osoys Ellhnes polites menoyn se noiki. Ayta ta stoixeia einai katalytika kai apodeiknyoyn diaxronika oti to noikokyrema, to opoio h kybernhsh jekinhse na doyleyei to 2004, mporei na apodidei. Kai ayta, einai apodeijh sthn prajh oti tetoies energeies poy ginontai me sobarothta, me strathgikh, me systhmatikothta, se baqos xronoy panta, qa apodidoyn yper toy polith. To idio qa symbei kai me to asfalistiko systhma.

GKOYTZANHS: Dhladh kyrie Ekproswpe mas eipate twra oti me ton proypologismo ayto h forologikh epibarynsh toy mesoy noikokyrioy meiwnetai; Qa plhrwsoyn dhladh oi Ellhnes polites ligoteroys foroys to 2008;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw an me prosejate, mporw na sas to janadiabasw apo thn arxh an qelete.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, qelw na moy to sympyknwsete. To symperasma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na kanw thn doyleia sas; Pros Qeoy! k. Thn ekana kapote, twra den ginetai. Qa kathgorhqw kai gia ayto ektos twn allwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Egw ayto to symperasma ebgala kai den to arneiste.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

PEPONHS: Eipate prohgoymenws tria ekatommyria triakosies xiliades apallassetai plhrws toy foroy. Ayto shmainei oti aytoi oi anqrwpoi pairnoyn katw apo 1000 eyrw ton mhna. Dhladh to 1/3 toy energoy plhqysmoy pairnei katw apo 1000 eyrw ton mhna. Zei me ayto to poso;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To erwthma sas einai an zei kapoios me 1000 eyrw to mhna;

PEPONHS: Me katw apo 1000eyrw; Giati lete oti 3.300.000 den symplhrwnoyn ta 12.000 eyrw to xrono.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Zei me poly megalh dyskolia. Omws qa sas pw to ejhs: An gyrisoyme 3,5-4 xronia pisw, qa sas rwthsw: Prwton, posoi htan oi anqrwpoi oi opoioi zoysan kai me posa lefta, poio htan to aforologhto tote; Deyteron, otan eixame 12% anergia kai twra exoyme 7,7% kai problepetai na meiwqei akoma perissotero, aytes oi 250.000, peripoy, nees qeseis ergasias, frontisan na kalytereysoyn th zwh 250.000 Ellhnwn; Dhladh ean moy zhtate qaymata h an zhtate qaymata apo mia kybernhsh se 3,5 xronia, qa sas pw oti opoios ta yposxetai leei cemata. Ekeino omws to opoio emeis desmeythkame na kanoyme -kai to kanoyme- einai to noikokyrema ths oikonomias to opoio apodeiknyetai sthn prajh. Ean, loipon, dei kapoios ayta ta pososta kai oxi sketoys ariqmoys kai skeftei kai anqrwpoys pisw apo ayta, tote qa dei oti ofeilei na synexisei mia tetoia politikh gia toys akoma perissoteroys Ellhnes polites poy exoyn thn anagkh sthn opoia anaferqhkate prohgoymenws. Kai ayto kanoyme me koinwnikh eyaisqhsia.

PEPONHS: Katarxhn den zhtaw qaymata. Erwthsh kanw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan, rhtoriko to erwthma. Den jerw an pisteyete h oxi toso poly sto Qeo, alla rhtorika to eipa.

PEPONHS: Rhtorika, epeidh moy to qesate, oyte eimai ypoxrewmenos na apanthsw ti ginotan pio prin. Thn idia erwthsh qa thn ekana kai stoys prohgoymenoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Rhtorika to eipa, mhn to blepete proswpika to qema. Rhtoriko htan to erwthma, pros Qeoy.

KAKALHS: Kayxieste giati 3.300.000 anqrwpoi den plhrwnoyn, apallassontai to foro, kai den blepete oti aytoi akribws einai toso ftwxoi poy den mporoyn kan na mpoyn sto aforologhto; Einai katw apo to aforologhto. Epishma exoyme 2.200.000 anqrwpoys katw apo to orio ths ftwxeias kai to gegonos oti einai 3.300.000 poy den mporoyn, epibebaiwnoyn to megeqos ths ftwxeias. Anti na kayxieste eprepe na ntrepeste gia ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas qymisw aplws oti h kybernhsh ayjhse to aforologhto poso stis 12.000 eyrw. Qymhqeite oti to brhkame poly xamhlotero -nomizw oti htan 10.000 eyrw- pantws sigoyra perysi htan 11.000 eyrw. Fetos ayjanetai kata 1000 eyrw. Kai ayto bohqaei kapoies ekatontades xiliades Ellhnes polites. Ayto deixnei kai th sobarothta, thn ypeyqynothta mias politikhs kai thn koinwnikh eyaisqhsia.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh apodidei shmasia sto gegonos oti me aformh kai me ton proypologismo enisxyetai h eyrews diadedomenh entypwsh oti h N.D einai komma twn epixeirhmatiwn kai efarmozei politikh yper twn exontwn kai katexontwn; Giati apo ton proypologismo prokyptei akribws oti oi monoi poy den plhrwnoyn tipota h plhrwnoyn ta ligotera sygkritika einai oi exontes kai katexontes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto, bebaiws, einai ligo antifatiko -se sxesh me ayto poy eipame prohgoymenws- alla einai apoch sas. Den thn yioqetw se kamia periptwsh, den th dexomai. Einai lanqasmenh apoch. Exete to dikaiwma na thn ekfrazete.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mias kai eida oti exete arketa stoixeia apo ton proypologismo mprosta sas mhpws mporeite na mas dwsete...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na sas dwsw to cd rom an qelete kai na sas steilw kai kapoion na sas kanei maqhma.

GKOYTZANHS: Na moy ton steilete, alla mporeite mhpws na moy peite ti pososto problepetai fetos gia thn Paideia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

GKOYTZANHS: Poso;

PALAIOLOGOS: Einai 6,5% parapanw apo perysi. Sas to lew egw. To exw diabasei. Olh th nyxta ayto kaname xqes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Palaiologos blepw ta jerei. Exw ena sygkritiko pinaka. Den jerw an qelete na sas to diabasw olo apo thn arxh giati jekinaei apo to 1993. Einai polla xronia pisw.

GKOYTZANHS: Den me peirazei giati einai syntoma ta pososta, efoson anaferomaste se pososta bebaia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To 2008, loipon, h problech einai gia 6 dis 861 ekatommyria. Metabolh ths tajews toy 6,5%. Qa hqela omws na sas dwsw merika stoixeia, oxi polla gia na mhn sas koyrasw.

GKOYTZANHS: To pososto epi toy Proypologismoy den mas lete. Mhpws qelete na apofygete th sygkrish me to 5% poy yposxotan o Prwqypoyrgos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epi toy AEP ennoeitai. To AEP exei ayjhqei opws jerete. Oxi k. Gkoytzanh. Anoixta na milame.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai, epi toy AEP, entajei. Ekeinos to eqete. Den to qetame emeis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Den yparxei logos, omws, kapoios na ypokrinetai. Egw pisteyw oti otan les thn alhqeia, efoson o allos exei kalh diaqesh, thn katanoei. Emeis eixame pei oti qa prospaqhsoyme na pame tis dapanes gia thn Paideia sto 5% toy AEP. To Akaqaristo Eqniko Proion ayjhqhke, opws jerete. To pososto loipon, -otan ayjanetai to AEP- mikrainei. Exei shmasia loipon na dei kapoios ti ekane h kybernhsh se apolytoys ariqmoys. An edwse dhladh xrhmata perissotera sthn Paideia h an ta meiwse. Giati otan fainetai na mikrainei to pososto, o kaqenas mporei na katanohsei, na yponohsei, na nomisei, oti mikrainoyn kai oi apolytoi ariqmoi. Deite omws ti exei symbei: Thn pentaetia 2004-2008 oi synolikes dapanes gia thn Paideia ayjhqhkan kata 2 dis 433 ekatommyria eyrw. Dyo dis 433 ekatommyria eyrw epipleon se apolyta posa, oi synolikes dapanes gia thn Paideia thn pentaetia 2004-2008. Kai milaw gia thn ektelesh toy proypologismoy toy 2003 h opoia egine ep ayths ths kybernhsews. Kai qa moy peite: Giati h kybernhsh prospaqei na pistwqei thn ektelesh enos proypologismoy poy eixe ftiajei h prohgoymenh kybernhsh; Qa shmeiwsw oti ston proypologismo problepontoysan ligotera xrhmata apo ayta poy telika edwse h nea kybernhsh, ths Neas Dhmokratias, to 2004, sthn ektelesh toy.

Thn pentaetia 1999-2003 twra, gia na kanete mia sygkrish: Ayjhqhkan kata 1 dis 631 ekatommyria eyrw. Dhladh exoyme 2,433 apo to 2004 ews to 2008, 1,631 apo to 1999 ews to 2003. Ayto deixnei, oti ayjanetai diarkws to pragmatiko endiaferon ths kybernhshs gia thn Paideia. To opoio den fanhke mono stis metarryqmiseis, alla fanhke kai stoys apolytoys ariqmoys, sta posa dhladh ta opoia proeblece kai edwse sthn Paideia.

GKOYTZANHS: Entajei, twra xrhsimopoieite ariqmoys se sxesh me pososta klp. Qa mporoysa na sas pw kai egw oti opws ayjanetai to AEP, ayjanontai kai oi anagkes ths Paideias. Kai otan o Prwqypoyrgos miloyse gia 5% hjere poly kala pws anaferotan se posostiaia ayjhsh kai oxi se apolyth ariqmhtikh. Opws, epishs, sigoyra qa eixe ypoch toy kai to oti qa ayjanetai kai to AEP, etsi; Giati yparxei antilogos se ayto poy lete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean peite se kapoion oti pairnete to 20% toy misqoy poy pairnei o dieyqynths sas, mporei na toy fanei poly ligo. An o dieyqynths sas pairnei 100.000 eyrw ton mhna kai eseis pairnetai 20.000 eyrw ton mhna, se apolytoys ariqmoys einai poly. Egw, loipon, sas lew oti se pososta isxyei ayto poy eipate eseis. Den mporei na to amfisbhthsei kaneis.

GKOYTZANHS: Ayto poy elege o Prwqypoyrgos anaferw egw. Egw aplws rwtaw , den pairnw qesh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Pros Qeoy! Den krybetai kaneis pisw apo to daxtylo toy. Lew loipon, se pososta isxyei ayto poy eipate eseis kai sas ejhghsa kai gia poio logo. Dioti ayjhqhke to AEP. Ara to pososto fainetai na einai mikro. Ekeino omws poy exei shmasia einai na doyme kai ton apolyto ariqmo. Kai to paradeigma poy sas edwsa me to misqo, nomizw oti einai xarakthristiko.

GKOYTZANHS: Lete oti ayjanontai ta posa kai egw sas lew oti mporei na exoyn ayjhqei, gia paradeigma, kai oi misqoi twn kaqhghtwn, twn daskalwn klp. Den shmainei tipota. Den bgainei symperasma gia thn beltiwsh ths Paideias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pantws an ennoeite oti ayta ta xrhmata ta dwsame se ayjhseis daskalwn kai kaqhghtwn, pali kalo einai. Den efygan, bebaiws, ekei ola ta xrhmata ekei. Phgan kai se ayjhseis, alla en pash periptwsei...

GKOYTZANHS: Alhqeia meiwqhkan kata 10 dis eyrw oi dapanes apo to ``spatalo kratos'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn ginei para polles shmantikes meiwseis. Kai mono to gegonos oti kataferame mesa se 2,5-3 xronia na katebasoyme to elleimma apo to 8% sto 2,7 %, antilambanetai kapoios ti prospaqeia noikokyrematos exei ginei.

KAKALHS: Einai alhqeia oti me ton eklogiko nomo poy egkriqhke xqes h aytodynamia toy prwtoy kommatos epitygxanetai akoma kai me to 38% twn chfwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti einai poly xamhlo to pososto poy lete, alla epeidh den eimai eidikos epi twn eklogikwn nomwn den mporw na sas pw. Ayto to opoio egine diaforetiko, dhladh, apo oti yphrxe prin, einai oti anti gia prim 40 edrwn, to prwto komma pairnei prim 50 edrwn. Deka edres epipleon einai to prim, ennoeitai analoga me ta pososta poy qa parei. Den shmainei oti h Nea Dhmokratia qa epairne 162 edres. Me ton kainoyrgio poy paei kai pros chfish, qa epairne gyrw stis 158 edres, to opoio prwto komma eixe to pososto poy eixe h Nea Dhmokratia stis prosfates ekloges.

KAKALHS: Me alla logia moy lete oti megalwnei h anantistoixia anamesa sth laikh ekfrash kai thn...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa kai xqes oti h epibarynsh oysiastika ginetai sto deytero komma. Dhladh o ariqmos twn edrwn einai 6 ton ariqmo oles kai oles, ek twn opoiwn oi perissoteres afairoyntai apo to deytero komma. Opoio ki an einai to deytero komma. O ellhnikos laos apofasizei stis ekloges. Einai, dhladh enas mikros ariqmos men, alla oysiastika ikanos na dhmioyrghsei thn aytodynamia, thn aisqhsh ayth poy sas eipa prohgoymenws, to megalytero ariqmwn edrwn.

Sas eyxaristw.

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