Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-02-27

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 27 Febroyarioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 59776019

Ekdosh 1

Brf2702

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 27 Febroyarioy 2007

Xairete.

" Oloklhrwqhke prin apo ligo h synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, me qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs. O Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs k. Anastashs Papalhgoyras, ayth thn wra, dinei synenteyjh Typoy stoys armodioys syntaktes toy Ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs.

" O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio, stis 09.30, qa exei synergasia sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Yfypoyrgo Aqlhtismoy k. Giwrgo Orfano kai stis 11.00, me ton Ypoyrgo Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Giwrgo Alogoskoyfh.

" Ofeilw ston k. Stamatopoylo, apo xqes, mia apanthsh gia to qema ths AGB: Opws sas eipa kai xqes, sth diadikasia exei emplakei kai to Nomiko Symboylio toy Kratoys, to opoio exei gnwmodothsei sxetika. Sthn paroysa fash elegxetai, apo tis yphresies ths Genikhs Grammateias Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, to periexomeno ths gnwmodothshs se o,ti afora ta dikaiologhtika kai th leitoyrgia ths AGB. An yparxei kati kainoyrgio sthn epomenh fash, qa sas enhmerwsw k. Stamatopoyle opws kai oloys toys ypoloipoys.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ep` aytoy qelw na rwthsw: To Nomiko Symboylio, ti gnwmodothse;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na mhn anakoinwsw dhmosiws th gnwmodothsh toy. Qa sas anakoinwsw me leptomereies, otan pia qa exei oloklhrwqei h diadikasia elegxoy twn pistopoihtikwn sta opoia anaferqhka prohgoymenws.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa proxwrhsete se nomoqetikh ryqmish, se nomosxedio poy qa afora tis etaireies aytes...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai nwris gia na pei kapoios o,tidhpote gia nomoqetikes ryqmiseis. Ayth th stigmh meletatai kata poson o hdh yfistamenos nomos exei parabiastei h oxi.

KAKALHS: Pote qa oloklhrwqei... ;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den nomizw oti qa arghsei para poly. Sas lew oti einai qema twn yphresiwn. Perimenw thn eishghsh toys gia thn epomenh kinhsh.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ean moy epitrepete, exw mia seira erwthsewn gia to qema ths Paideias kai qa hqela na tis ypobalw...

ROYSOPOYLOS: An kai to apogeyma, opws gnwrizete, arxizei h syzhthsh sth Boylh.

SPYRAKH: Epeidh yparxei mia seira protasewn panepisthmiakwn poy aforoyn eidika sto qema ths symfwnias gia th xrhmatodothsh poy synaptei to Ypoyrgeio me ta Panepisthmia, hqela na jerw, kata poso einai anoikto to endexomeno na dexqei h kybernhsh tropopoihseis epi toy sygkekrimenoy sto nomosxedio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To nomosxedio qa syzhthqei sthn Epitroph, se poly megalo ariqmo synedriasewn -ej oswn gnwrizw- kai sthn Olomeleia. H kybernhsh, opws gnwrizete, exei proselqei se olh th diadikasia me poly kalh diaqesh, me dialogo o opoios apefere apotelesmata. Eimai bebaios oti h Ypoyrgos Paideias qa kinhqei sthn idia logikh se ayth thn koinoboyleytikh diadikasia ths Epitrophs kai ths Olomeleias sth synexeia.

SPYRAKH: Wraia, twra qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: Epeidh to nomosxedio mas teleiwnei, dhladh chfizetai me tropopoihseis h oxi kai mas teleiwnei. Yparxei sxediasmos gia ameso, epomeno bhma apo thn pleyra sas h qewreite oti se ayth th qhteia ths kybernhshs exei oloklhrwqei ayto to opoio eseis apokaleite ``ekpaideytikh metarryqmish'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme desmeyqei gia mia seira apo qemata. Gia paradeigma, yparxoyn sigoyra dyo qemata ta opoia prepei na elqoyn -den mporw na prosdiorisw to xroniko periqwrio- sto amesws prosexes diasthma. To ena einai nomosxedio poy afora ta metaptyxiaka sta panepisthmia kai to allo einai nomosxedio poy afora thn ereyna. Kai ta dyo, ta metaptyxiaka kai h ereyna, einai shmantika kommatia ths beltiwshs ths poiothtas ths Paideias poy parexetai apo ta ekpaideytika mas idrymata. Gia thn ereyna - sas qymizw einai kati to opoio exei pei kai h k. Giannakoy dhmosiws - ayth th stigmh qa diateqoyn sto Ypoyrgeio Paideias peri ta 420 ekatommyria eyrw apo to neo Koinotiko Plaisio Sthrijhs.

SPYRAKH: Ep` aytoy, epeidh akoysa shmera to prwi kai ton k. Beremh kai yphrje kai mia palaioterh topoqethsh ths k. Giannakoy se sxesh me tis allages poy qa aposyndesoyn to Lykeio apo to Panepisthmio. Qa proxwrhsei h kybernhsh kai se nomoqetikes protaseis h ryqmiseis, entos ths paroyshs qhteias pali to qetw, poy aforoyn kai sth Deyterobaqmia Ekpaideysh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti h kybernhsh apo to programma ths, kiolas, exei desmeytei se mia seira allagwn kai metarryqmisewn sthn kateyqynsh ths beltiwshs ths parexomenhs Paideias toso sta Anwtata Ekpaideytika Idrymata, oso kai sth Deyterobaqmia Ekpaideysh. Gnwrizoyme oloi oti meta apo dialogo dyo kai pleon etwn katalhjame sto nomosxedio, to opoio, opws proanefera, eisagetai shmera to apogeyma sthn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs, gia na syzhthqei kai na proxwrhsei sthn Olomeleia gia chfish. Epishs, einai orqo oti kai o Prwqypoyrgos kai h Ypoyrgos Paideias sto parelqon exoyn kanei anafores sxetika me thn anagkh dhmioyrgias enos poiotikoteroy Lykeioy, dhladh, mias poiotikoterhs Paideias sth Deyterobaqmia Ekpaideysh. Kai qa moy epitrecete na pw oti den einai mono ti exoyme pei, einai kai ti exoyme kanei. Hdh, to prwto bhma exei ginei edw kai dyo xronia, apo tote poy giname kybernhsh, otan katarghqhkan oi ejetaseis sth B' Lykeioy. Ayto einai sthn kateyqynsh aytonomhshs toy Lykeioy. Prepei to Lykeio na apokthsei thn aytajia toy. Yparxei to epomeno bhma, gia to opoio den eimai etoimos na sas milhsw me leptomereies, ayth th stigmh, pros thn oloklhrwtikh aytonomhsh toy Lykeioy apo th gnwsth diadikasia twn Panellhniwn Ejetasewn.

SPYRAKH: H poiotikh aytonomhsh qa symperilambanei thn katarghsh twn ejetasewn; Einai kombiko to shmeio, giati ginetai megalh syzhthsh kai ayto afhse na ennohqei kai o k. Beremhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, epeidh einai shmantika kai lepta qemata, qelw na pw oti den einai bhmata poy ginontai apo th mia mera sthn allh. Ayth h kybernhsh to apedeije hdh. Meta apo makry dialogo, proxwra me antallagh apocewn, akoygontas kai thn allh apoch. Opoies allages ginoyn kai otan ginoyn, qa einai gnwstes stoys maqhtes apo poly nwris. Exei hdh kanei mia anafora h k. Giannakoy, oti oi maqhtes qa gnwrizoyn tis opoies allages apo thn A' kiolas Lykeioy. Dhladh, goneis, oikogeneies, maqhtes -toylaxiston tria xronia prin apo tis opoies allages ginoyn- qa gnwrizoyn tyxon allages toy systhmatos, etsi wste kaneis na mhn aifnidiastei. Kai ayto einai mia politikh thn opoia exoyme akoloyqhsei, qewrwntas oti to meizon eqniko qema poy einai h Paideia, den epitrepetai na xrhsimopoieitai apo kanenan, apo kanena komma, poly perissotero apo mia ypeyqynh kai sobarh kybernhsh, gia na aifnidiasei kanenan. Ayth einai h ypeyqynothta kai h sobarothta me thn opoia exoyme proseggisei to qema kai qa synexisoyme na to proseggizoyme. Sto sygkekrimeno poy eipate, qa pw mia koybenta parapanw kai nomizw oti exw hdh pei polla gia ta qemata ths Paideias. Qa meinw omws sto plaisio twn dhlwsewn poy exei kanei kai h k. Giannakoy kai omiliwn poy exei kanei o Prwqypoyrgos, kata kairoys, sth Boylh. Gnwrizete oti den isxyei se kamia sobarh xwra toy kosmoy to na mhn yparxoyn ejetaseis gia na eisagetai kapoios sto Panepisthmio. Pantoy yparxei kapoios tropos ejetasewn. Ta Panepisthmia orizoyn, kat` arxas, ton ariqmo twn foithtwn poy dexontai ana tmhma. Emeis, ws kybernhsh, exoyme orisei twra to 10 ws bash gia na bohqhsoyme sthn kalytereysh ths parexomenhs poiothtas ths Paideias. Den mporei na dexqoyme oti eiserxontai oloi sto Panepisthmio anejarthtws baqmologias poy exoyn sto Lykeio. Qa prepei na yparxei kapoioy eidoys ejetastikh diadikasia, opws ginetai se oles tis eyrwpaikes xwres  epanalambanw- wste na paramenei ychlo kai na enisxyetai to epipedo twn spoydwn. Den nomizw oti yparxei Panepisthmio, se sobarh xwra toy kosmoy, to opoio na dexetai foithth poy na mhn plhroi mia seira apo proypoqeseis. Yparxei, gia paradeigma, to International Baccalaureate, yparxoyn alles ejetaseis poy orizontai apo to idio to Panepisthmio. Kai se ayth thn periptwsh omws - kai kleinoyme ayto to qema- otan qa fqasoyme ekei -kai milame panta gi` aytes tis allages sth Deyterobaqmia Ekpaideysh- exoyme pei oti qa ginoyn meta apo makry dialogo, poy shmainei meta tis epomenes ekloges. Pisteyoyme oti qa eimaste kai pali kybernhsh me thn chfo toy Ellhna polith. Qa prepei kai tote, to kratos, dhladh to Ypoyrgeio Paideias, na eggyatai thn antikeimenikothta twn ejetasewn. Opws shmera, sth syneidhsh toy Ellhna polith, oi panelladikes ejetaseis exoyn mia adiamfisbhthth antikeimenikothta kai kyros, antistoixws kai tote, otan qa fqasoyme sto epomeno bhma opoy ta Panepisthmia qa epilegoyn ton ariqmo twn foithtwn poy qa eisagontai sta tmhmata toys, qa prepei eggyhths ayths ths antikeimenikhs diadikasias ejetasewn na einai to idio to kratos, to idio to Ypoyrgeio Paideias.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, prin apo dyo xronia, eixate chfisei ena nomo gia thn ajiologhsh twn Panepisthmiwn, o opoios den efarmosthke. Twra fernete enan allo nomo en mesw antidrasewn kai malista pollwn kai poly shmantikwn. Ti na mas kanei emas na pistecoyme oti ayto to nomo qa ton efarmosete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete megalo laqos oti den efarmozetai o nomos gia thn ajiologhsh o opoios, epitrecte moy na pw, oti einai para poly shmantikos. Den ypotimw kanenan apo toys alloys h to nomo-plaisio kai den qa ypeiselqw sthn ajiologikh krish na pw an einai shmantikoteros apo alloys h oxi. Wstoso einai para poly shmantikos. Einai enas nomos poy exei arxisei kai efarmozetai. Einai hdh h ajiologhsh, o nomos-plaisio, ta metaptyxiaka, h ereyna, ta tessera kommatia ta opoia dinoyn mia teleiws diaforetikh prooptikh sta ellhnika Panepisthmia. Ta kanoyn poly pio isxyra apo apoch periexomenoy spoydwn. Ta kanoyn poly pio isxyra kai ajiologa se sygkrish me alla eyrwpaika h dieqnh Panepisthmia.

KAKALHS: Proanaggeilate oti meta tis ekloges ean eisaste kybernhsh qa katarghsete tis Panellhnies ejetaseis kai qa proxwrhsoyn se eisagwgh twn foithtwn apeyqeias stis sxoles qa pairnoyn toys foithtes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanelaba mia seira apo desmeyseis poy exei parei ayth h kybernhsh kai apo thn periodo poy eimaste antipoliteysh sto programma mas, alla kai me dhmosies omilies toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth Boylh kai ths Ypoyrgoy Paideias se synenteyjeis Typoy h sth Boylh. Eipa jekaqara sto erwthma sas poia einai h apanthsh, as mhn thn epanalabw. Ean th diabasete apo to apomagnhtofwnhmeno keimeno qa exete katanohsei plhrws to qema.

SMYRNHS: Hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Xqes o k. Papandreoy proeblece oti telika h kybernhsh qa paei stis ekloges m` ayto me thn Paideia kai parallhla xarakthrise oti ayth h stash, ean thn thrhsei h kybernhsh, qa einai aneyqynh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa xqes ston k. Papandreoy kai h xqesinh moy apanthsh kalyptei gia ta osa exei pei. Den qelw na pw tipota perissotero.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh akoygontai fwnes kai akoysthkan kai xqes gia paratash toy dialogoy se sxesh me to epimaxo nomosxedio gia ta panepisthmia, yparxei to endexomeno na parataqei aytos o dialogos se epipedo koinwnias kai na mhn chfistei twra, amesa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H diadikasia ths Boylhs einai jekaqarh. To nomosxedio eisagetai gia syzhthsh shmera sth Boylh, teleiwnei me tis synedriaseis -nomizw einai tesseris ton ariqmo- eisagetai en synexeia sthn Olomeleia, chfizetai kai einai nomos toy kratoys. Kamia allh diadikasia den problepetai kai oyte yparxei sth skech kanenos.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na rwthsw, den katalaba oi dyo ekkremothtes poy eipate, ta metaptyxiaka kai h ereyna, ti eidoys prwtoboylia qa analabete; Qa nomoqethsete ena kainoyrio...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws. Prepei na ginoyn nomosxedia, na ginei ena kainoyrio plaisio.

POYLIDOY: Kai giati ayta den perielhfqhsan sto nomo - plaisio, as poyme h ereyna giati den mphke sto nomo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei mia seira apo diaforetika zhthmata, mporei na anaferontai sthn Paideia kai eidika sta Anwtata Ekpaideytika Idrymata, alla den katesth dynato na symperilhfqoyn ola se ena nomo. Opws gia paradeigma h ajiologhsh, poy exei prohghqei -to qymise o k. Gkoytzanhs nwritera- edw kai ena xrono. Etsi twra exoyme to nomo - plaisio poy problepei ta zhthmata poy exoyme syzhthsei ejantlhtika. Menoyn dyo akomh zhthmata ta opoia einai shmantika kai prowqoyntai se epomena nomosxedia.

POYLIDOY: Se ti xroniko orizonta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Entos ths tetraetias.

SPYRAKH: Ean exoyme teleiwsei me to qema ths Paideias qa hqela na qesw ena zhthma poy exei filojenhqei stis efhmerides kai shmera yparxei kai ena sxetiko dhmosieyma sto EQNOS. Exete eisprajei apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs ths Rwsikhs Omospondias ena stoixeio enoxlhshs meta thn anakoinwsh toy ellhnikoy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn gia thn egkatastash twn pyraylwn toy NATO sthn Tsexia kai thn Polwnia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa kanw kanena peraiterw sxolio apo ta osa exoyn ginei gia to qema ayto.

KAKALHS: Ep` aytoy hqela na rwthsw. Epibebaiwnete an ginei katarxhn dialogos...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa epanalabw to idio: Den qa kanw kanena peraiterw sxolio gia thn ypoqesh ayth.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai, alla emas ti premoyra mas epiase na bgaloyme anakoinwsh gia to pws einai oi qeseis toy Rwsoy Proedroy poy antidra sthn topoqethsh pyraylwn twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn; Den to katalabainw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei to idio.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite ep` aytoy qa hqela na rwthsw: H ellhnikh kybernhsh tassetai yper ths epektashs ths antipyraylikhs aspidas twn HPA pros thn Eyrwph poy stoxopoiei th Rwsia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei h prohgoymenh apanthsh moy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti to nomosxedio pernaei me 4 synedriaseis apo thn epitroph...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean den me apata h mnhmh moy einai 4 synedriaseis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Olomeleia; Qa paei me kapoia diadikasia epeigontos; Kapoia tetoia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Kanonika, den nomizw oti yparxei kapoia...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oso trabhjei dhladh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanonika, nai. Oso trabhjei... Yparxoyn 4 synedriaseis, den qymamai poses einai, mhn sas pw ariqmo kai kanw laqos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sthn Olomeleia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oses synedriaseis xreiazontai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: An den paei h katepeigon h epeigon, meta oso trabhjei paei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oses synedriaseis einai aparaithtes gia na oloklhrwqei h diadikasia ths chfishs toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Opote pairnei kapoia diadikasia pali.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto apofasizetai, opws gnwrizete, apo th diaskech twn proedrwn. Ayto den to gnwrizw, ean exei synedriasei hdh ayth thn ebdomada h diaskech twn proedrwn, gia na syzhthsei gia to nomosxedio sthn Olomeleia. Exei syzhthsei to nomosxedio sthn epitroph. Alla einai kalo na apeyqynqeite sth Boylh gia na mhn sas lew pragmata poy aforoyn ton koinoboyleytiko xwro.

MAYRIDHS: Pisteyete oti to PASOK qa prepei na egkalesei ton boyleyth toy, o opoios kateqese erwthsh sth Boylh sxetika me to qema poy proekyce me enan stratiwtiko o opoios feretai na foroyse ena gynaikeio eswroyxo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Rwthste ton k. Eyqymioy. Ti na sas pw egw;

GKOYTZANHS: Ep` aytoy: Ean gia thn kybernhsh dhmioyrgeitai qema epeidh kapoios boyleyths toy PASOK kataggellei thn kybernhsh se sxesh me to qema toy Tajiarxoy me to stringkaki kai tis fwtografies toy sto Internet;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa sxoliasw erwthsh boyleyth sto Koinoboylio. Kaqe boyleyths einai eleyqeros na rwta oti aytos krinei oti ton bohqa na askhsei kalytera ton rolo toy sto plaisio ths koinoboyleytikhs diadikasias.

GKOYTZANHS: Qa apomakrynqei apo to strateyma o Tajiarxos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporw na apanthsw se erwthmata ta opoia antilambaneste oti den mporw kai na gnwrizw. Den qelw na mpw sthn oysia toy qematos, qa yparjei apanthsh sto Koinoboylio.

SPYRAKH: Edw yparxei kai ena qema proswpikwn dedomenwn. To stamatame edw pera. Einai dysmenhs diakrish na xarakthrizetai kaneis apo tis protimhseis toy.

GKOYTZANHS: Syggnwmh. Epeidh edw ofeiloyme na apanthsoyme...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den nomizw oti prepei na ginei dialogos metajy sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Entajei, ayto einai dhlwsh h opoia afora kai ta Mesa Enhmerwshs ta opoia to xeirizontai. Katalabainete, den einai qema proswpikwn dedomenwn toy Tajiarxoy kai twn erwtikwn toy protimhsewn. O kaqenas exei dikaiwma na kanei oti qelei. Apo th stigmh omws poy oi fwtografies ftanoyn sto Internet, dhmioyrgeitai ena qema giati exoyn dhmosiopoihqei. Den parabiase kanenas proswpika dedomena.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti yparxei mia koinoboyleytikh diadikasia. Se ayth qa meinw, den exw na sxoliasw tipota perissotero. Sxedon pote den sxoliazw koinoboyleytikes diadikasies. Spaniws to exw kanei, kat` ejairesh, gia akraioy periexomenoy erwthseis. Den qa mpw sth logikh na xarakthrisw ayth thn erwthsh, na pw kati perissotero.

KAKALHS: Na epanelqw sto prohgoymeno qema. Hqela na rwthsw ean h parembash toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn mporei na odhghsei sthn anabolh ths ypografhs ths symfwnias Mpoyrgkas - Alejandroypolhs. Ean exete tetoies plhrofories.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den sxetizetai to ena qema me to allo.

KAKALHS: Feretai oti exei prokalesei th dysforia ths rwsikhs pleyras ayth h qesh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: Den sxetizetai to ena qema me to allo.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes sthn ekpomph toy o k. Makhs Triantafyllopoylos eixe synexeia sto qema ths k. Ntoras Mpakogiannh kai ths eklogikhs ths perifereias to 1990 kai to 1993 sthn Eyrytania kai to pws kerdise ekeines tis eklogikes maxes. Den problhmatizei thn kybernhsh pws breqhkan jana tosoi polloi na kataggelloyn paromoia pragmata; Den problhmatizetai oti endexomenws kapnos xwris fwtia den yparxei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei sthn xqesinh enhmerwsh. Den exw na prosqesw tipota perissotero.

SMYRNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sto epishmo periodiko ths Neas Dhmokratias, thn ``METEJELIJH'', filojeneitai mia analysh eidikoy synergath, sthn opoia yparxei h ektimhsh oti den prokeitai gia egxwrioys tromokrates, oson afora to ktyphma sthn amerikanikh presbeia, alla pisw apo to ktyphma krybontai Islamistes, sas lew akribws th diatypwsh, ``endexomenws kai h idia h Toyrkia'' kai oti sthn oysia h Ellada paroysiazetai apo kapoioys ws Doyreios Ippos toy metallagmenoy islamikoy braxiona sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Ena sxolio qelw apo thn kybernhsh gia ena arqro sto epishmo periodiko ths Neas Dhmokratias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa sxoliasw to arqro. Pantws na jerete oti den aphxei qesh ths kybernhshs.

KAKALHS: Pws ejhgeite to gegonos oti enw h Nea Dhmokratia, enw h kybernhsh, exei katebasei to pososto anergias sto 8%, h anergia qewreitai to sobarotero problhma apo to 60% toy ellhnikoy laoy; Pws dhladh ena periqwriako, kata ta alla, fainomeno, einai to kyriarxo problhma gia thn pleiochfia toy ellhnikoy laoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw giati to xarakthrizete ``periqwriako''. Den einai kaqoloy periqwriako. Einai shmantiko qema. Einai to yp' ariqmon ena qema to opoio apasxolei toys Ellhnes polites ayth th stigmh. To gegonos oti ayth h kybernhsh katafere kai katebase kata sxedon 30% thn anergia, dhmioyrgwntas sxeseis apasxolhshs, einai epishs mia pragmatikothta. Exoyn dhmioyrghqei peri tis 250.000 qeseis apasxolhshs mesa se 2,5 xronia. Wstoso, exw dhlwsei polles fores - to exei pei kai o armodios ypoyrgos to exei pei kai o Prwqypoyrgos sth Boylh - den qa eimaste ikanopoihmenoi mexris otoy ejaleifqei to fainomeno ayto. Einai mia maxh diarkhs, h opoia didetai, mexri stigmhs, me poly megalh epityxia. Giati to na dhmioyrghqoyn 250.000 qeseis apasxolhshs se 2,5 xronia, na meiwseis kata 30% - giati peripoy toso einai to pososto - thn anergia se 2,5 xronia, einai hdh ena para poly shmantiko bhma.

KAKALHS: Nai, alla einai ojymwro na milate gia tash ejafanishs, ejaleichs aytoy toy fainomenoy, th stigmh poy einai to kyriarxo problhma sthn ellhnikh koinwnia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma den milhsa gia ejaleich toy fainomenoy.

KAKALHS: Gia ejaleich eipate.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Eipa oti qa eimaste ikanopoihmenoi monon otan ejaleifqei ayto to fainomeno.

KAKALHS: Mporei na tiqetai qema ejaleichs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa oti tote qa eimaste ikanopoihmenoi. Ara, kata synepagwghn  opws legame kai sta maqhmatika - den eimaste ikanopoihmenoi. Ofeilei omws na kanei oloys pio aisiodojoys kai na to anagnwrisoyn ekeinoi poy parakoloyqoyn ta pragmata me endelexeia, oti ayth h kybernhsh katafere se 2,5 xronia na meiwsei kata sxedon 30% - 27 kai kati einai an to kanete me thn aplh meqodo - thn anergia kai na dhmioyrghsei 250.000 qeseis apasxolhshs mesa se 2,5 xronia. Einai ena para poly shmantiko bhma, opws kai na to kanoyme.

KAKALHS: Ti qeseis ergasias einai omws aytes; Merikhs apasxolhshs kai anasfalisths ergasias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti qa mporoyse kaneis na apajiwsei ta panta kai na isopedwsei ta panta kanontas mia mhdenistikh kritikh. Th dexomai ws apoch. Epitrecte moy na epimeinw sthn apoch ths kybernhshs, h opoia milwntas me sygkekrimenoys ariqmoys, me sygkekrimena posa kai pososta, deixnei oxi aplws mia diaqesh, alla apotelesmatikothta sto ergo ths katapolemhshs ths anergias kai ths dhmioyrgias newn qesewn apasxolhshs.

KAKALHS: Ayto akribws lew. Me toys ariqmoys kai ta stoixeia kataskeyazete mia pragmatikothta poy den exei sxesh me thn pragmatikothta...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den amfisbhthse kaneis mexri twra th dhmioyrgia aytwn twn 250.000 qesewn apasxolhshs, epitrecte moy na to pw. Den to amfisbhthse kanenas. Akoma kai h pio kakopisth kritikh sth Boylh den akoysthke na amfisbhtei ayton ton ariqmo.

MELIGKWNHS: Problhmatizei thn kybernhsh to gegonos oti to PASOK fainetai na prohgeitai sta qemata ths legomenhs kaqhmerinothtas; Dhladh, anergia, ftwxia, antimetwpish agrotikwn problhmatwn k.l.p.;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ginomaste kaqe mera martyres mias pragmatikothtas thn opoia prospaqoyme na diamorfwsoyme epi ta beltiw. Pisteyw oti kai oi 'Ellhnes polites ayto mporoyn na martyrhsoyn, na doyn, na ypologisoyn ws ena apo ta shmantikotera erga ths kybernhshs.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, shmera oi efhmerides exoyn stoixeia apo ekqesh ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs, symfwna me thn opoia h xwra mas se oikonomikoys deiktes opws h antagwnistikothta, h anaptyjh kai kapoia alla, ejakoloyqei na einai stis teleytaies qeseis ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milate gia to eyrwbarometro;

GKOYTZANHS: Thn ekqesh poy qa paroysiasei - nomizw ebgalan kapoia stoixeia  ayrio ... Ayto, entajei. Para tis prospaqeies ths kybernhshs deixnoyn oti den beltiwsate kai poly tis epidwseis sas oyte th qesh sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan to xasma einai terastio, antilambaneste oti akoma kai ayto to poly megalo bhma poy exei ginei - gia paradeigma ta stoixeia poy edwsa prohgoymenws sto synadelfo sas gia thn anergia kai th dhmioyrgia qesewn apasxolhshs - se sxesh me ta almata poy eginan epi seira etwn fantazoyn mikra sthn Eyrwpaikh 'Enwsh. Kai fantazoyn mikra, akribws giati h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh ekane almata. Neoteres, apo thn Ellada, xwres sthn oikogeneia ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs ekanan almata poly grhgora. Doylecan me poly pio systhmatiko tropo, poly pio megalh sobarothta apo oti apodeixqhke oti doylecan - kai apodeixqhke polles fores - oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis. Otan ta montela ta opoia qewroyntai epityxhmena apo prohgoymenoys Prwqypoyrgoys aporriptontan syllhbdhn kai dhmosiws, antilambanetai kapoios giati h xwra eixe meinei kaqhlwmenh se pososta kai posa poly xamhlotera apo alles xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Ayta gia na allajoyn xreiazetai poly doyleia, to exw pei, to gnwrizete, to blepete. Se ena poly shmantiko pososto exoyn ginei allages oi opoies anagnwrizontai apo thn armodia Epitroph, eidika sthn oikonomia - o armodios Epitropos molis xqes ekane kapoies dhlwseis, gnwrizete oti synedriazei to ECOFIN aytes tis hmeres - kai dinoyn to aisiodojo mhnyma oti h kybernhsh einai se swsth kateyqynsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Prin apo mia ebdomada eixe erwthqei o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias k. Alogoskoyfhs ti qa kanei me to Asfalistiko kai eixe parapemcei stis protaseis poy qa kanei h armodia epitroph gia to asfalistiko ypo ton k. Analyth. Xqes o k. Analyths milhse kai eipe oti se 15 xronia, oxi parapanw, qa katarreysei to asfalistiko systhma opws einai kai proteine ek neoy ayjhsh eisforwn h ayjhsh toy orioy hlikias syntajiodothshs. Qa to tolmhsei h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na pw tipota perissotero gia to Asfalistiko apo ayta poy exw pei kai sto parelqon.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh omws einai ena qema poy kaiei kai to antimetwpizete ws kybernhsh kai me prooptikh, se baqos xronoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gi' ayto akribws, me th sobarothta poy prepei exw apanthsei to parelqon. Sas parapempw se aytes tis dhlwseis moy. Qa deite oti yparxei apanthsh kai sto shmerino sas erwthma.

KAKALHS: Epeidh kai eseis prohgoymenws ekfrasate aisiodojia gia thn poreia ths oikonomias, to idio ejefrase xqes kai o k.Alogoskoyfhs legontas oti jeperna h poreia ths oikonomias kai tis prosdokies toy, thn idia stigmh omws sthn ekqesh toy eyrwbarometroy h pleiochfia toy ellhnikoy laoy fobatai gia thn anergia, tis syntajeis, gia to kostos zwhs kai genika gia ton epomeno xrono dhladh, fobatai oti qa xeiroterecei h katastash toy. Ayto pws to ejhgeite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala poia einai h qesh moy gia oles tis metrhseis ths koinhs gnwmhs. Thn exw epanalabei para polles fores. Staqera, de, epi epta xronia, lew akribws to idio pragma. Den qa to epanalabw kai shmera. Emeis xrhsimopoioyme tis ereynes ths koinhs gnwmhs ws shmantika ergaleia poy mas bohqoyn gia na ginoyme kalyteroi, na kanoyme kalytera th doyleia mas. Den qa dwsw kamia allh diastash sto qema.

KAKALHS: Alla xrhsimopoieite kai ta gkalop, ta epikaleiste syxna, gia na peite oti exete th sthrijh toy ellhnikoy laoy stis metarryqmiseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na me janakoitajete kai na qymhqeite ti akribws exw pei gia tis dhmoskophseis; Giati nomizw oti me mperdeyete me allo komma.

KAKALHS: Exete kanei ejaireseis kata diasthmata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Allos h alloi einai ekeinoi - kai polloi ton ariqmo - oi ekproswpoi toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs kyriws, oi opoioi kata to dokoyn eite afora apofaseis ths Dikaiosynhs, eite afora metrhseis ths koinhs gnwmhs, ajiopoioyn ta apotelesmata ``a la carte'', opws nomizoyn oti toys symferei. Den to ekana pote kai den qa to kanw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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