Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-01-08

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 8 Ianoyarioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 50701961

Ekdosh 1

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YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 8 Ianoyarioy 2007

Xairete. Xronia polla kai kalh xronia se oloys, me ygeia, eytyxia, oikogeneiakh kai epaggelmatikh anelijh. Nomizw oti kalyca oloys toys basikoys tomeis.

" O Prwqypoyrgos Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio, stis 10:30, qa exei synergasia, sto Megaro Majimoy, me thn Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Ntora Mpakogiannh kai stis 11:00 qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs.

Eimai bebaios oti exete polles erwthseis.

SIDERHS: Pote qa ginoyn ekloges;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To exoyme pei. Den exei allajei tipota apo tote poy ta legame to 2006.

KORAH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, sto plaisio ths synaineshs thn opoia epidiwkei h kybernhsh, yparxei periptwsh sth Boylh na kanei apodekth thn protash gia th diatypwsh poy kata th gnwmh toy PASOK, prepei na exei to neo arqro 16 toy Syntagmatos, wste na einai sigoyro oti qa thn chfisei kai to PASOK;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa mporoyse kai to PASOK na chfisei thn protash ths Neas Dhmokratias. Allwste, h Nea Dhmokratia, opws gnwrizete poly kala, edw kai para polla xronia, yphretei thn apoch oti xreiazetai h xwra mas mh kratika, mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmiaka idrymata.

SARANTAKOS: Exete kapoio sxolio gia tis plhrofories oi opoies dhmosieythkan kai den diaceysthkan apo ton k. Papaqemelh gia thn idrysh enos neoy kommatos; Kai to rwtw ayto, dioti o k. Papaqemelhs ejelegh me to chfodeltio ths Neas Dhmokratias. Eixate enhmerwqei gia tis proqeseis aytes toy k. Papaqemelh; Qa enhmerwqeite; Qa yparjei kapoia synanthsh me ton k. Karamanlh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw. Diabasa ki egw tis plhrofories poy lete. Bebaiws, o k. Papaqemelhs, opws eipate, exei eklegei synergazomenos sto chfodeltio ths Neas Dhmokratias kai malista yphrje kai mia poly kalh synergasia olo ayto to diasthma. Apo kei kai pera, anejarthtopoihqhke sth Boylh. Kai ayto to gnwrizete. Den gnwrizw tis proqeseis toy, oyte kai bebaiws mporw na protrejw.

KAKALHS: Problhmatizei thn kybernhsh to gegonos oti exei diamorfwqei mia pleiochfia sta panepisthmia kai se epipedo sygklhtwn enantia sthn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den prokyptei apo poyqena h pleiochfia ayth. To antiqeto malista.

KAKALHS: Toylaxiston deka (den akoygetai) exoyn parei apofash kata toy arqroy 16 kai ekkremei kai gia toys ypoloipoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai sebastes oles oi apoceis. H kybernhsh exei th qesh ths, h opoia qesh exei chfistei apo th syntriptikh pleiochfia- mias kai milame gia pleiochfies- twn Ellhnwn politwn, oi opoioi Ellhnes polites apaitoyn allages.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, ep` aytoy: Giati h kybernhsh den leei eyqews oti qelei panepisthmia -epixeirhseis, idiwtika panepisthmia poy qa leitoyrgoyn me gnwmona to kerdos kai qa poylane gnwsh kai ptyxia se aytoys poy mporoyn na ta agorasoyn; Giati den to lete eyqews;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Paroti antilambanomai oti qa sas ikanopoioyse kati tetoio, den qa to poyme, giati den isxyei.

KAKALHS: Giati, ti allo isxyei;

KYRITSHS: Otan lete oti h qesh ths kybernhshs exei chfistei apo th syntriptikh pleiochfia toy ellhnikoy laoy, moy qymizete pote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Thn 7h Martioy 2004, otan eixame ekloges. Gnwrizete oti kaqe tessera xronia exoyme ekloges. Stis ekloges aytes chfizetai ena komma, to opoio komma chfizetai gia na kybernhsei ton topo kai chfizetai me bash to programma toy. H pleionothta twn Ellhnwn politwn, apofasise na eklejei ws kybernhsh th Nea Dhmokratia, gia na kybernhsei bebaiws ton topo kai oxi gia na qeatai twn gegonotwn. To programma ths Neas Dhmokratias einai jekaqaro, einai analytiko, einai plhres, den apekryce tipote kai ayto to programma kanoyme prajh.

KORAH: H ektimhsh ths kybernhshs, poia einai; To PASOK telika qa chfisei thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na rwthsete ton k. Eyqymioy.

KORAH: Se o,ti afora aytes tis apallages me ta plasta pistopoihtika, telika den einai jekaqaro to an o entopismos toy sygkekrimenoy ``pontikoy'' htan me prwtoboylia toy epikefalhs stratiwtikoy h toy Ypoyrgeioy Eqnikhs Amynas. Mporeite na mas to jekaqarisete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei hdh dwsei apanthseis o armodios Yfypoyrgos k. Lampropoylos kai o Ypoyrgos k. Meimarakhs. Wstoso qa sas pw dyo - tria stoixeia mono, den qa mpw se leptomereies, giati einai qema to opoio gnwrizete oti ereynatai apo th stratiwtikh dikaiosynh. Den exw na pw egw, loipon, leptomereies gia to qema. Qa sas ta poyn apo to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynhs. Wstoso, mias kai me rwtate, gia na exoyme thn plhrh eikona: H shmerinh kybernhsh apo thn prwth stigmh phre ola ta aparaithta metra gia na teqei terma sto kaqestws atimwrhsias poy isxye, dystyxws, mexri to 2004 gia toys anypotaktoys, kyriws eswterikoy kai gia osoys epairnan apallagh apo tis stratiwtikes toys ypoxrewseis me mh nomima mesa.

Sygkekrimena: Prwton, o armodios Yfypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas k. Lampropoylos eqese stis 20 Septembrioy 2004 ektos strateymatos to kentriko proswpo toy kyklwmatos twn paranomwn apallagwn. Prokeitai gia anwtato ajiwmatiko, o opoios eixe apostrateytei ton Aprilio toy 2001 -eixe apostrateytei apo thn tote kybernhsh toy PASOK- kai anaklhqhke sthn energo yphresia thn epomenh kiolas hmera ths apostrateias toy gia na analabei allh qesh. Deyteron, ton Dekembrio toy 2005 chfisthke apo th Boylh neos nomos gia th stratologia poy ebale oysiastiko telos sthn atimwrhsia. Dinw dyo paradeigmata: Prwton, opoios xarakthrizetai twra pia I5, dhladh anikanos gia strateysh, den apallassetai oristika, alla prepei entos ths prosexoys, apo thn hmera toy xarakthrismoy toy ws I5, pentaetias, na epanakriqei. Deyteron, epeblhqhsan oysiastika metra kata twn anypotaktwn eswterikoy. Opoios parei eidopoihthrio kai den paroysiastei, parapempetai kateyqeian apo ton stratiwtiko eisaggelea sto akroathrio, antiqeta me o,ti synebaine mexri thn chfish aytoy toy nomoy. Sto diasthma 2000 - 2004, apo ta stoixeia poy exw antlhsei apo to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas, ayjhqhke katakoryfa kai me anejhghto tropo, o ariqmos twn anypotaktwn eswterikoy. Tesseris xiliades tetrakosioi penhnta apo aytoys exoyn perasei hdh apo epitroph. Ta apotelesmata einai, an oxi entypwsiaka, sigoyra endiaferonta. Peripoy to 25% apo aytoys einai ikanoi na yphrethsoyn. Triton, gia thn antimetwpish olwn aytwn twn qematwn, exei jekinhsei kai proxwrei me grhgoroys ryqmoys, h mhxanografhsh olwn twn stratologikwn stoixeiwn. Osoi ajiwmatikoi, giatroi kai stratologoi kriqhke oti den ekanan kala th doyleia toys, timwrhqhkan. H anoxh ths shmerinhs kybernhshs, gnwrizete oti einai mhdenikh se tetoia fainomena. To systhma strateyshs ejygiainetai oysiastika kai apotelesmatika.

Ayta ws genikh anafora sta shmeia ta opoia blepoyme na lambanoyn dhmosiothta ton teleytaio kairo. Qelw na shmeiwsw oti h ypoqesh ayth, opws sas eipa hdh, jekinhse na ereynatai apo to 2004. Exoyn ginei dhmosies anakoinwseis. Oi syntaktes toy reportaz poy kalyptoyn to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynhs einai se qesh na gnwrizoyn kalytera tis dhmosies anakoinwseis. Alla mporeite na deite kai ta deltia Typoy ta opoia exoyn ekdoqei kata kairoys apo ton armodio Yfypoyrgo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, giati den dinete ta onomata aytwn olwn sth dhmosiothta; Einai proswpiko dedomeno h apath;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Stis 30/03/2005, opws me plhroforei pali to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynhs, egine erwthsh pros thn Arxh Prostasias Dedomenwn Proswpikoy Xarakthra. Stis 08/04/2005, h Arxh Prostasias Dedomenwn apofasise th mh dhmosieysh twn onomatwn. Stis 28/04/2005 doqhke entolh sto Nomiko Symboylio toy Kratoys na askhsei aithsh akyrwshs kata ths apofasews ths Arxhs Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn. Stis 26/09/2006 dhmosieyqhke h yp` ariqmon 2629/2006 apofash toy D Tmhmatos toy Symboylioy ths Epikrateias, poy aperrice thn aithsh akyrwshs kai apofasise th mh dhmosieysh twn onomatwn.

BLAXOS: Einai dikaio ayto, kyrie Ekproswpe... ;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den krinw dikastikes apofaseis.

BLAXOS: Gia thn ikanopoihsh toy koinoy aisqhmatos, einai kata thn kybernhsh dikaio h qa analabei prwtoboylia gia na allajei ayto to pragma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den krinw dikastikes apofaseis.

SIDERHS: Yparxei kati allo. Aytoi poy exoyn ametaklhtws kriqei kai katadikastei, den mporei oyte aytwn ta onomata na doqoyn sth dhmosiothta; Afoy einai dhmosia h anakoinwsh ths katadikhs toys. Apo poy kai ws poy prokyptei ws proswpiko dedomeno;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa prepei na sebastoyme tis anejarthtes arxes, toys nomoys fysika...

SIDERHS: Ayto sas rwtaw. Anaferotan kai se ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: Qa prepei na sebastoyme tis anejarthtes arxes, tis apofaseis twn dikasthriwn. Kata synepeia, den exw na pw tipota perissotero.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exw dyo erwthseis. H prwth afora sto ejhs: Metajy twn apallagentwn paranomws apo to kyklwma poy entopisate kai to opoio droyse, opws lene oi plhrofories, thn periodo 1995 - 2004, perilambanontai kai politika proswpa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw perissotera stoixeia apo ayta ta opoia sas edwsa. Kai den qa mporoysa kai na gnwrizw, kaqoson prwton, einai qema dikastikhs diereynhshs, ara den mporw na gnwrizw stoixeia toy fakeloy, deyteron, yparxei to aporrhto twn proswpikwn dedomenwn kai triton, ayto to opoio ws kybernhtikos ekproswpos kaloymai enwpion sas na prajw, einai na dwsw orismenes plhrofories, oi opoies pisteyw oti dinoyn mia plhrh eikona sto qema. Peraiterw leptomereies, eimai bebaios oti qa exete apo to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynhs kai sigoyra, meta th lhjh ayths ths ypoqeshs dikastika.

SPYRAKH: Qelw na paw kai sto prohgoymeno qema, giati exw thn ejhs aporia: Yparxei mia koinotikh odhgia h opoia ypoqetw oti qa efarmostei kai apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh to argotero mexri to 2010, h opoia  to perigrafw ligo laika- leei oti efoson anagnwrizontai epaggelmatika dikaiwmata apofoitwn pararthmatwn panepisthmiwn se xwres entos ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, ennow ta panepisthmia ta opoia sthn Ellada exoyn dwsei to onoma toys kai franchising se diafora kolegia, tote ypoxrewtika qa anagnwristoyn kai sthn Ellada ta epaggelmatika toys dikaiwmata. Ayth thn odhgia, pote meleta h kybernhsh na th qesei se efarmogh; Dedomenoy oti ap` o,ti jerw, einai mia ypoqesh gia thn opoia h Ellada exei ekkremothta sto Dikasthrio twn Eyrwpaikwn Koinothtwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw an yparxei tetoia ekkremothta sto Dikasthrio twn Eyrwpaikwn Koinothtwn. Den amfisbhtw thn plhroforia kanenos, aplws qa moy epitrecete na rwthsw ta kaq` ylhn armodia Ypoyrgeia Eqnikhs Paideias kai Anaptyjhs kai na sas dwsw mia apanthsh ayrio. Se kaqe periptwsh, gnwrizoyme oloi, oti oi odhgies ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs efarmozontai, enswmatwnontai sto eqniko dikaio apo oles tis xwres - melh.

MANH: Epishs gia to idio qema, kyrie Ekproswpe, h ypoqesh egine gnwsth sto strato toylaxiston, sto Ypoyrgeio stis 27 Dekembrioy. Tote toylaxiston proekyce h kamera, poy piasthke ep` aytofwrw ``o pontikos''. Mexri tis 3 Ianoyarioy poy doqhke sth dhmosiothta, h kybernhsh eixe enhmerwqei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. H ypoqesh egine gnwsth to 2004, to mhna poy sas eipa. Dhladh, gia na jekaqarisoyme ta pragmata, yparxei mia alysida gegonotwn. Eseis milate gia ena sygkekrimeno kriko. Den qa mpw se leptomereies oso endiaferon kai na exei, dioti kai den tis gnwrizw, alla kai h oysia toy qematos einai oti h alysida twn gegonotwn jekinhse apo thn apofash ths shmerinhs kybernhshs to 2004 na jekaqarisei ayth thn ypoqesh kai na mhn epitrecei na epanalhfqoyn ayta ta fainomena poy prosbaloyn toys Ellhnes polites. Den mporei na yparxoyn polites dyo kathgoriwn.

MANH: Kai h deyterh erwthsh, an moy epitrepete, epeidh anaferqhkate kai eseis ston stratologiko nomo poy chfisthke to 2005, wstoso apo to reportaz kai ta stoixeia prokyptei oti perysi, to 2006 kai mono se mia seira katatajhs, to Ypoyrgeio Amynas ypegrace 2.500 peripoy metatajeis apo to dyskolo,``zoriko'' strato sto ``eykolo'' naytiko klp. O nomos sthn prajh eidame oti exei polla paraqyrakia. Ara to neo stratologiko nomo giati ton epikaleiste;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ekana eidikh anafora sto stratologiko nomo gia ta qemata twn apallagwn. Eseis qetete ena teleiws diaforetiko qema. Gia to teleiws diaforetiko qema.

MANH: Ma paraqyrakia yparxoyn etsi kai alliws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa parakalesw na rwthsete to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas. Pantws, exw thn entypwsh, apo mia syzhthsh poy eixa kanei me ton k. Meimarakh prin apo 3-4 mhnes, oti ean den exei proxwrhsei, protiqetai na proxwrhsei se oristikh lysh kai aytoy toy zhthmatos. Gia na paysei h metatajh apo to ena Swma sto allo.

KYRITSHS: Dyo erwthseis, kyrie Ekproswpe. H prwth afora sthn prostasia twn proswpikwn dedomenwn. Kata thn apoch ths kybernhshs afora kai ta politika proswpa an p.x. piasoyn enan ypoyrgo na klebei se ena soyper-market, as poyme, den qa prepei na to maqoyme gia na jeroyme an einai katallhlos gia th qesh toy h an exei koroidecei to strato kai den exei paei fantaros den qa erepe na to maqoyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Rwtate emena na sas pw;

KYRITSHS: Nai, th gnwmh ths kybernhshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Oyte Anejarthth Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn, oyte tipote diaforetiko apo ayto poy sas dhlwsa kai to opoio gnwrizete edw kai dyomisi xronia apo tote poy egine kybernhsh h Nea Dhmokratia. Eimai Ypoyrgos Epikrateias kai Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Kata synepeia mh me rwtate gi` ayto to qema. Ean qelete thn proswpikh moy apoch, den qa thn ekfrasw. Edw ekfrazw thn apoch ths kybernhshs. Leme oti sebomaste tis apofaseis twn Anejarthtwn Arxwn kai twn dikasthriwn. Moy kanete mia erwthsh sthn opoia gnwrizete poly kala oti den mporeite na parete apanthsh.

KYRITSHS: Me endiaferei omws...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete omws oti den qa parete apanthsh. Antilambanomai oti exei endiaferon kai dhmioyrgei kai entypwsh, alla den mporeite na parete apanthsh apo emena.

KYRITSHS: Symfwna me plhrofories, ayrio h antipoliteysh prokeitai na kataqesei protash gia th systash Ejetastikhs Epitrophs gia tis ypoklopes. Kaqws h dikastikh diereynhsh h opoia einai se ejelijh edw kai dyo xronia den exoyme maqei oti exei odhghsei mexri twra se kati. H kybernhsh pws prepei na topoqethqei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala, thn pagia qesh mas, oti oso diarkei h ejetash enos qematos apo th Dikaiosynh den eimaste yper ths systashs Ejetastikwn Epitropwn. Ayto einai kati to opoio to exoyme epanalabei para polles fores kai me diaforetikes aformes kai diaforetika qemata sto parelqon.

GKOYTZANHS: Gia to arqro 16 kyrie Ekproswpe, ayto poy eqese prohgoymenws kai o synadelfos, eipate oti chfisthke apo th syntriptikh pleionothta toy ellhnikoy laoy. An den apatwmai, h Nea Dhmokratia phre 44% stis ekloges. Ayto einai...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai panw apo 160 edres sth Boylh. Dhladh syntriptikh pleiochfia. Gnwrizete oti h Boylh exei 300 edres. Me pleiochfia chfizontai oi nomoi, thn pleiochfia ths kybernhshs. H Nea Dhmokratia chfisthke kai elabe panw apo 160 edres.

GKOYTZANHS: Yparxoyn kai eklogika systhmata poy qa mporoysan na sas dwsoyn kai perissotera. Den einai ekei to qema. H pleiochfia metrietai me tis chfoys kai oxi me tis edres sth Boylh. Ayto einai qema eklogikoy systhmatos. Mas dinete enan allo orismo pleiochfias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dhladh, gia na katalabw, to erwthma sas poio einai;

GKOYTZANHS: H pleiochfia as poyme ean einai 50 syn kati se kaqe periptwsh. Telos pantwn, qa hqela na rwthsw kai kati allo. To periexomeno toy arqroy 16 etsi opws qa to kataqesete, to exete diatypwsei, einai gnwsto; H aplws zhtate mia entolh gia idiwtika panepisthmia kai ta peraiterw qa dieykrinistoyn sto mellon;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, exete katalabei laqos. Den zhtame kamia entolh gia idiwtika panepisthmia. Giati emeis pote den hmastan yper twn idiwtikwn panepisthmiwn. Anazhthste se alloys xwroys dhlwseis toy parelqontos gia na breite poioi dhlwnan tote oti einai yper twn idiwtikwn panepisthmiwn kai twra erxontai na poyn alla. Emeis eimaste pantote yper twn mh kratikwn mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmiakwn idrymatwn.

BLAXOS: An kai den hmoyn apo thn arxh, ean exei apanthqei, qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: Problepetai mia entash se politiko epipedo. Ayth h entash mporei na odhghsei thn kybernhsh se ekloges prokeimenoy na apofasistei ekei sthn kalph me nea an qelete entolh toy ellhnikoy laoy, gia na proxwrhsei sth metarryqmish sthn Paideia h oxi; H qewrei h kybernhsh oti einai arketh h pleiochfia poy phre prin apo tria xronia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Antilambanomai to endiaferon poy exei h syndyastikh diatypwsh dyo qematwn, opws twn prowrwn eklogwn kai toy qematos twn allagwn sta Ekpaideytika Idrymata h toy arqroy 16. Den syndeontai to ena me to allo. Emeis ekeino poy prospaqoyme gia to qema toy arqroy 16 einai na epityxoyme thn eyryterh dynath synainesh. Pisteyoyme oti epitygxanetai ayth h synainesh, einai dynaton na epiteyxqei, dioti gnwrizoyn oloi pia  ston 21o aiwna zoyme- poio einai to symferon twn ellhnikwn panepisthmiwn, twn Ellhnwn foithtwn twn ayrianwn genewn.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mhpws einai epilektikh h eyaisqhsia sas oson afora thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn; Htan apagoreymeno na doqoyn sth dhmosiothta kai ta onomata twn dhmosiografwn poy doyleyoyn sto dhmosio giati h enasxolhsh toys apoteloyse proswpiko dedomeno. Eseis omws toys ``kremasate'' sta periptera. Giati tote prajate etsi; Mhpws sas synefere politika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me entypwsiazei poy asqenei h mnhmh sas. Giati proiontos toy xronoy -den eiste kai megalos- exete thn empeiria na qymaste h na krinete kalytera. Adikeite ton eayto sas kai emena. Qa sas qymisw, loipon, oti ws eixa ypoxrewsh apo to nomo kai to synakoloyqo Proedriko Diatagma, katopin aithsews kai mono ths ESHEA, esteila toys katalogoys ekeinoys prin apo dyo xronia, gia toys opoioys exw thn eyqynh ths sygkentrwshs twn stoixeiwn apo oles tis dhmosies yphresies apaj ethsiws. Thn eyqynh ths dhmosiopoihshs anelabe h idia h ESHEA. Gnwrizete poly kala oti eklhqh kai o ypofainomenos kai h ESHEA apo thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn. H ESHEA, ean den me apata h mnhmh moy, timwrhqhke me kapoio prostimo gi` ayth th dhmosiopoihsh, o ypofainomenos, oxi.

SIDERHS: Na ypoqesoyme oti ean zhthsei h Boylh toys katalogoys aytoys qa toys dwsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora th dikh moy armodiothta, o nomos einai safhs , to Proedriko Diatagma einai safes.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe prin ligo egine mia synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Karamanlh me to dhmarxo Peiraia ton k. Fasoyla. Mhpws jerete, pera apo to klima, ean proekyce kati qetiko gia thn polh toy Peiraia apo ayth th synanthsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai bebaios oti mia synanthsh aytoy toy epipedoy exei sigoyra qetika apotelesmata. Den gnwrizw ti exei ginei. Hmoyn sthn parakeimenh aiqoysa me ton synadelfo moy k. Sioyfa, gia na paroysiasoyme to oloklhrwmeno, pleon, programma enisxyshs toy perifereiakoy Typoy, ycoys peripoy 5 ek. eyrw, poy ekponhqhke apo ton perasmeno Aygoysto ews to telos toy 2006 gia thn enisxysh twn eparxiakwn efhmeridwn sthn prospaqeia poy ginetai gia hlektronikopoihsh kai chfiopoihsh toys. Den gnwrizw, loipon, ti egine sth synanthsh.

KAKALHS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti pote den hsastan yper twn idiwtikwn panepisthmiwn. Mporeite tote na mas peite ti einai ayta ta mh kratika mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmia; Ean den einai mia allh onomasia twn idiwtikwn panepisthmiwn; Kai deyteron, oi idiokthtes twn kentrwn eleyqerwn spoydwn se prosfath anakoinwsh toys, dhlwsan oti qa metatrecoyn ta kolegia toys se idiwtika panepisthmia. Ayto den einai amesh aporroia ths Anaqewrhshs toy Arqroy 16;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora to deytero erwthma, den gnwrizw kamia anakoinwsh h kamia dhlwsh, alla en pash periptwsei, yparxoyn nomoi poy einai safeis kai epishs oi odhgies ths E.E.. Kata synepeia den gnwrizw poy akribws anafereste. Se o,ti afora to prwto erwthma, ean xreiazetai mporw na sas parapemcw sto armodio Ypoyrgeio Paideias. Eimai bebaios oti me poly xara qa sas dwsoyn ola ekeina ta dieykrinistika stoixeia kai sigoyra qa sas dwsoyn kai polles plhrofories apo to dieqnh xwro gia to poia megala panepisthmiaka idrymata, ta opoia exoyn poly kalh paroysia sth dieqnh panepisthmiakh koinothta, einai mh kratika, mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo.

KAKALHS: ... Merika paradeigmata tetoiwn panepisthmiwn poy yparxoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas parapemcw sto Ypoyrgeio Paideias, na sas ta dwsoyn analytikotata.

KAKALHS: Prokalei entypwsh poy den ta gnwrizete eseis.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: (Den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den milame gia to arqro 16, gia th Boylh. Allo rwthqhka.

MELIGKWNHS: Opws oi kathgoroymenoi se ayth thn ypoqesh gia tis paranomes apallages exoyn dikaiwma prostasias twn proswpikwn toys dedomenwn, to idio dikaiwma den eixan kai oi kathgoroymenoi gia thn parea twn ``koymparwn'', giati ayto poy eidame htan h dhmosia diapompeysh toys apo tis thleoptikes kameres kai ton k. Zagorith na ejerxetai toy Megaroy Majimoy kai na anarwtietai ean eidan oi dhmosiografoi tis xeiropedes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai mia lektikh yperbash poy kanete, enas endiaferon syllogismos prepei na omologhsw, alla den nomizw oti exei sxesh me thn pragmatikothta.

SIDERHS: Kata th diarkeia twn eortwn orgiasan oi diarrhjeis kai oi lhsteies. Proxqes, thn Pempth mono, eixame 6,7 lhsteies thn idia hmera. Den qa prepei o k. Polydwras na eishghqei h kybernhsh na mpei sto biblio Gkines;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Allh erwthsh, poy na mhn exei sxoliastiko logo, eortastikhs rastwnhs xarakthra. Se o,ti afora thn oysia toy qematos, gnwrizete poly kala oti...

SIDERHS: Peste mas gia thn oysia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kata kairoys ginontai anakoinwseis apo thn armodia dieyqynsh, th Genikh Astynomikh Dieyqynsh Aqhnwn, apo ton arxhgo ths Astynomias gia thn patajh ths egklhmatikothtas. H prospaqeia ths Astynomias kai olwn twn stelexwn ths einai diarkhs. Oydeis eipe oti proseggisame to teleio se opoiondhpote tomea.

SIDERHS: Ta xeiroterecate, bebaia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa symfwnhsw kaqoloy me ayth thn proxeirh epishmansh sas.

SIDERHS: Sygnwmh, alla to ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs edwse ta stoixeia oti ayjhqhkan.

SPYRAKH: Qa sas parakaloysa na mas peite poia diadikasia qa akoloyqeitai sth diadikasia ths anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos sthn kat' arqro syzhthsh sthn Epitroph. Ean, dhladh, qa lambanoyn meros kai qa lambanoyn to logo se kaqe periptwsh o eishghths, sthn periptwsh ayth, o k. Panagiwtopoylos kai o k. Paylopoylos h qa omiloyn kai oi sygkekrimenoi emplekomenoi ypoyrgoi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, h diadikasia plhsiazei sto telos ths. Den exei allajei tipota apo thn arxh kai den protiqetai na allajei kapoios tipota. H Boylh einai armodia, alla den gnwrizw na yparxei proqesh allaghs ths diadikasias. Mhpws qelete na kanete pio sygkekrimenh thn erwthsh sas;

SPYRAKH: Qa milhsei h k. Giannakoy gia thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanenas ypoyrgos, plhn toy k. Paylopoyloy poy paristatai ws ekproswpos ths kybernhshs, den exei metasxei se qemata anaqewrhshs. Gia paradeigma: To arqro 3 poy anaferetai se zhthmata Ekklhsias einai epishs armodiothtas toy ypoyrgeioy Paideias kai Qrhskeymatwn. Den htan h ypoyrgos Paideias ekei. Sth syzhthsh gia to arqro 14, par. 9 -en merei eyqynh analogei kai ston omiloynta, opws kai ston ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs- den paresthn oyte egw. Qelw na pw, dhladh, oti den qa allajoyme th diadikasia. Qa parameinei h idia. Ta sxolia poy akoyw h diabazw einai ek toy ponhroy.

MANH: O k. Tragakhs, ws armodios apo to Proedreio ths Boylhs, protiqetai na zhthsei, ean den to exei kanei hdh twra poy milame, nea paratash twn ergasiwn ths Epitrophs Syntagmatos; Eixe parataqei mexri 31 Ianoyarioy, twra qa paei 15 Febroyarioy, symfwna me thn protash toy k. Tragakh. Einai h deyterh paratash. H kybernhsh exei balei ena plafon sto pote qa lhjoyn oi ergasies;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, den apofasizei h kybernhsh. Apofasizei h idia h Epitroph me pleiochfia.

MANH: Nai, lew ean yparxei ws epiqymia ths kybernhshs ena plafon, mia hmeromhnia lhjhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milwntas genikotera gia qemata anaqewrhshs exw pei oti yparxei mia prospaqeia epiteyjhs ths megalyterhs dynaths synaineshs. Den skopeyei to kybernwn komma, sto baqmo poy mporw na milhsw gia ta koinoboyleytika qesmia, na piesei kapoion na oloklhrwqei mia diadikasia prin apo thn wra ths. Qa doqei o aparaithtos xronos gia na syzhthqoyn ola ta qemata opws prepei.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa rwthsw pali to idio pragma, qelw ligo perissotero eidika na moy peite. To ``mh kratika- mh kerdoskopika'' se mas toylaxiston afhnei para polles apories. Sto arqro 16 qa perilambanontai oi oroi, oi proypoqeseis gia thn idrysh tetoiwn panepisthmiwn; Qa ginei ayto dhladh mesa apo th syntagmatikh diatajh h qa afeqei meta gia ton aplo nomoqeth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei, opws gnwrizete, mia protash ths kybernhshs kai yparxei kai protash ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Kai en synexeia osoi boyleytes -50 ton ariqmo- sygkentrwsoyn ypografes, mporoyn na proteinoyn anaqewrhsh gia opoiodhpote arqro. H protash ths kybernhshs einai sygkekrimenh. Ayth syzhteitai sthn epitroph ths Boylhs. H telikh diatypwsh enos arqroy, ean den apofasistei sthn olomeleia ayths ths Boylhs, apofasizetai, opws gnwrizete, sth Boylh poy prokyptei meta tis ekloges kai poy einai h anaqewrhtikh Boylh, h Boylh poy qa chfisei to Syntagma. Den exw na pw kati perissotero. H prospaqeia mas einai gia thn eyryterh dynath synainesh. Ayto einai to mono poy mporw na sas pw se o,ti afora, oxi mono to arqro 16, alla synolikotera thn anaqewrhsh thn opoia proteinoyme.

GKOYTZANHS: An moy epitrepete, ki egw den rwthsa na moy ejeidikeysete poia qa einai h diatajh. Rwthsa ean oi oroi kai oi proypoqeseis, olo ayto to pragma, qa perigrafetai apo th syntagmatikh diatajh h qa afeqei meta gia na ryqmistei me ektelestiko nomo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eimai syntagmatologos...

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh yparxoyn syntagmata, to syntagma ths (den akoygetai) gia paradeigma, an qelete, poy perigrafei...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Katalaba ti lete, me sygxwreite den to antelhfqhn nwritera. Yparxei mia apoch thn opoia ensternizetai h Nea Dhmokratia kai to exei dhlwsei sto parelqon o k. Paylopoylos kai sthn prohgoymenh anaqewrhsh. To dhlwnoyme kai twra, oti to Syntagma ws katastatikos xarths ths xwras qa prepei na exei ta stoixeia ta opoia xreiazetai na exei to Syntagma. Den mporei na ginetai oyte analytikos nomos, oyte Proedriko Diatagma. Wstoso h kateyqynsh qa prepei na einai safhs. Dyskolh doyleia ayth, alla as thn afhsoyme sthn epitroph h opoia ergazetai mexri twra poly kala.

KAKALHS: Ejakoloyqei na epimenei h kybernhsh oti me thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16 stoxos einai na enisxyqoyn ta dhmosia panepisthmia; Kai ayto pws ginetai, mporeite na mas peite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H enisxysh twn dhmosiwn panepisthmiwn apotelei strathgiko stoxo kai ayths ths kybernhshs kai -me pollh xara to akoyw- kai ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Lew ``me pollh xara to akoyw'', dioti einai poly shmantiko ta dyo megala kommata na synainoyn, na symfwnoyn oti o dhmosios xarakthras ths ekpaideyshs xreiazetai poiotikh enisxysh kai poiotikh anabaqmish. H oysia ths protashs, peran twn oswn exoyn eipwqei, bohqaei kai se ayth thn kateyqynsh. Kai apantwntas sthn erwthsh sas, lew oti bohqaei idiaitera. Dioti gnwrizete poly kala oti se enan dyskolo kosmo, opws einai aytos ston opoio zoyme shmera, enan kaqara antagwnistiko kosmo, oi dynatothtes poy dinontai apo th dhmioyrgia kai mh kratikwn  mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmiwn qa enisxysoyn aytoys toys kanones antagwnistikothtas. As doyme ta apotelesmata aytwn twn dynatothtwn se alles xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs h tis HPA. Polles fores exoyme synhqisei na ektimoyme ta apotelesmata, opws gia paradeigma megales efeyreseis, peiramata, brabeia Nompel. Na ektimoyme dhladh ta apotelesmata aytoy toy antagwnismoy sthn episthmosynh, ths dynatothtas poy exoyn diaforetikes antirropes episthmonikes dynameis na diatypwsoyn apoch, na diamorfwsoyn qewries, na proxwrhsoyn parapera thn episthmh kai na proxwrhsoyn thn anqrwpothta parapera sta apotelesmata poy anefera prohgoymenws, se polla jena panepisthmia, me ta opoia qa mporoysan na einai isajia antagwnizomena kai ellhnika panepisthmia. Polles fores dhladh, gia na to kanw pio aplo, krinoyme to qetiko. Deite ti egine me ton ypologisth twn 100 dolariwn h twn 100 eyrw. O ypologisths aytos ftiaxthke mesa apo thn kalws ennooymenh antagwnistikh diadikasia kapoiwn panepisthmiwn. Ayto to apotelesma den nomizw na yparxei kapoios o opoios na to kathgorei ws epiteygma ths anqrwpothtas. To timoyme. Ayto omws einai ena apotelesma antagwnistikhs diadikasias h opoia dhmioyrgeitai se synqhkes ygioys antagwnismoy, oxi gia thn kerdoskopia alla gia thn anaptyjh ths episthmhs, gia na proxwrhsei h anqrwpothta. Giati ektimoyme to apotelesma, ektimoyme ta proswpa ta opoia timwntai dieqnws, ta proswpa ta opoia diakrinontai dieqnws, ta peiramata toys kai ta apotelesmata sthn efarmogh poy exoyn sthn kaqhmerinothta mas kai den ektimoyme oti gia na ftasoyme ekei exei yparjei mia prohgoymenh diadikasia h opoia exei epitrecei ayto ton antagwnismo na ginei pio eleyqeros kai pio dynamikos; Kai ayth h diadikasia emeis pisteyoyme oti bohqietai para poly me th dhmioyrgia kai allwn panepisthmiwn mh kratikoy- mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra.

KAKALHS: Epeidh anaferqhkate sto qema toy antagwnismoy, gia na mhn pame sta dieqnh, na sas anaferw to paradeigma twn idiwtikwn sxoleiwn sth Mesh Ekpaideysh. Kata poso bohqhsan as poyme na anabaqmizontai ta dhmosia sxoleia h oi idiwtikes klinikes sthn ygeia, poso bohqhsan sthn anabaqmish twn dhmosiwn nosokomeiwn; Dhladh, o antagwnismos poy bohqhse gia na ginei kalytero, qelw na pw, to dhmosio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme na kanoyme me teleiws diaforetikes synqhkes kai teleiws diaforetika, mh sygkrinomena qemata h tomeis. Akoysa to idio na legetai kai gia thn thleorash. Giati bohqhqhke h poiothta ths thleorashs me thn anaptyjh twn idiwtikwn staqmwn; Egw sas lew oti bohqhqhke, paroti qa mporoyse kapoios na pei oti den yparxei kamia sygkrish dioti dystyxws sthn periptwsh ths idiwtikhs thleorashs, afeqhkan na leitoyrghsoyn xwris kanones gia para polla xronia, mia seira apo thleoptika diktya. H Politeia exei th dikh ths merida eyqynhs h opoia einai shmantikh, gi` ayto eixame anarxh domhsh toy thleoptikoy topioy. Edw pame domhsoyme ena topio kainoyrio me sygkekrimenoys kanones. Kanones oi opoioi exoyn dokimastei se alles xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai stis HPA, kanones poy exoyn apodwsei karpoys.

KYRITSHS: Apo thn prohgoymenh topoqethsh sas, epeidh anaferqhkate se Nompel, se ayto to project toy MIT gia ton ypologisth twn 100 dolariwn, qewreite oti ayto to opoio qa prokycei apo thn metarryqmish thn opoia dromologei twra h kybernhsh einai panepisthmia sthn Ellada me ta opoia qa pame gia Nompel kai gia toso makropnoa kai ycipeth projects opws o ypologisths twn 100 dolariwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na ypenqymisw oti to project toy ypologisth twn 100 dolariwn htan idea Ellhna episthmona. Ara, loipon, den antilambanomai giati mporei na doqei h dynatothta se ena ellhniko myalo eite sto MIT eite sto Harvard h kapoy alloy na drasthriopoihqei, na ergastei eleyqera, na parajei episthmoniko ergo, na parajei apotelesmata ta opoia exoyn efarmogh sthn kaqhmerinothta, ta opoia proxwroyn ena bhma mprosta thn anqrwpothta kai den mporei na ginei ayto sth xwra mas.

KYRITSHS: Eimai sigoyros gi` ayto!

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prepei na perasei ayth h antilhch, ennow na meinei pisw sto parelqon h eikona ths mikrhs Ellados h opoia den exei dynatothtes. Exoyme para polles dynatothtes. Pisteyw oti to episthmoniko mas proswpiko einai arketa isxyro dieqnws ki ayto fainetai kai apo tis dhmosieyseis oi opoies ginontai apo Ellhnes episthmones, apo ellhnika episthmonika kentra dhmosioy xarakthra. Exoyme dhladh dynatothtes tetoies wste na antagwnistoyme eyqews megala panepisthmia. Einai poly eykolo -kai den anaferomai sthn erwthsh sas twra- alla isws diabazontas kapoios to briefing sth synexeia na gracei sxolia aploysteytika kai prospaqwntas na geloiopoihsei isws thn katastash. Den qa anaferqw se ayto twra. Qelw na pw omws oti h ennoia toy antagwnismoy den einai mia kakh ennoia, einai mia kalh ennoia. As doyme ton synagwnismo.

KYRITSHS: Arkei na mhn eisai esy poy xaneis. Na eisai aytos poy kerdizei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ejartatai. Sth zwh den mporei kapoios panta oyte na kerdizei, oyte kai na xanei. Exei shmasia na proetoimazetai kalytera gia to ayrio. Kai exei shmasia na proetoimazoyme kai ta paidia mas kalytera gia to ayrio. Na toys leme, na toys maqainoyme, na toys deixnoyme poio einai to ayrio poy exoyn na antimetwpisoyn prokeimenoy na mh bgoyn kapoia stigmh ston ypoloipo kosmo kai niwqoyn meionektika, ginoyn fobika kai kleistoyn pali ston omfalo ths ghs.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Exoyme ektrapei se qewrhtikes syzhthseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomiza oti sas endiaferoyn. Ekana laqos.

KYRITSHS: Exw allh mia erwthsh h opoia qa einai ligotero qewrhtikh gia na mhn to trabame ayto. Kata thn apoch ths kybernhshs h proseggish toy PASOK kai h proseggish ths Neas Dhmokratias se o,ti afora th metarryqmish toy arqroy 16, exoyn shmantikes diafores;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti eimaste para poly konta.

MANH: Qa epanelqw sthn erwthsh toy k. Gkoytzanh, ean h kybernhsh desmeytei oti h diatypwsh gia thn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 16 poy qa paroysiasei se ayth thn olomeleia, thn pro anaqewrhtikh, qa einai h idia me th diatypwsh poy qa paroysiasei sthn anaqewrhtikh. Kai ayto giati to lew: Polloi boyleytes ths antipoliteyshs ypociazontai, lene oti h kybernhsh epeidh se ayth th Boylh qelei na parei toys 180 chfoys, thn enisxymenh pleiochfia, qa paroysiasei to ``mh kratika mh kerdoskopika'' wste meta sthn epomenh Boylh, poy qa qelei mono 151 kai qa toys exei, na mporei na paijei me to ``mh kerdoskopika''. H desmeysh loipon qa yparxei, oti ayth h diatypwsh twra qa einai kai h epomenh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai pantelws anakribes ayto poy lete. Me entypwsiazei kai mono se kakoboyles fhmes mporw na to apodwsw  oxi bebaiws dikes sas- dioti h diadikasia einai gnwsth. Kai peran ths diadikasias -ennow ths koinoboyleytikhs diadikasias poy einai gnwsth- yparxei desmeysh ths Neas Dhmokratias apo to programma ths kai desmeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy toy idioy, h opoia exei epanalhfqei polles fores dhmosiws. Emeis, timoyme tis desmeyseis mas. Den allazoyme eykola apoceis.

POYLIDOY: Xqes, kyrie Ypoyrge, eidame apo thn thleorash to yphresiako aytokinhto toy Ypoyrgoy Eswterikwn k. Paylopoyloy, na parabiazei ton K.O.K. kai na prokalei troxaio atyxhma. Hqela na rwthsw ean apotelei ypoyrgikh pronomia h parabiash toy K.O.K.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti yparxoyn kanones oi opoioi throyntai, kanones apo thn ELAS h opoia exei thn eyqynh ths asfaleias proswpwn, opws einai Ypoyrgoi, politika stelexh alla kai alla. Se kaqe periptwsh einai ena lyphro gegonos ayto to opoio synebh. O k. Paylopoylos me thn eyaisqhsia, oxi thn ypoyrgikh, oyte thn kaqhghtikh, alla toy anqrwpoy, mia eyaisqhsia poy ton diakrinei se olh thn poreia ths zwhs toy, xeiristhke to qema etsi wste na yparxoyn oi mikroteres dynates zhmies, apo ayth thn ypoqesh, sta dyo paidia poy epebainan sth motosikleta. Nomizw oti kai h taxythta kai h paroxh ths periqalchs poy egine, xwris na diagrafei to gegonos, se ena poly megalo pososto dinei thn pragmatikh toy diastash.

POYLIDOY: Dhladh an den eixe ayth thn eyaisqhsia ti eprepe na toys kanei; Na toys deirei kiolas kyrie Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti einai ena sobaro qema h toylaxiston etsi nomiza otan ypobalate arxika thn erwthsh kai sas apanthsa poly sobara. An qelete na kanoyme xioymor, mporei na kanoyme xioymor, oxi omws me ayto to qema. Me opoio allo qema qelete.

POYLIDOY: To apolytws apodekto ekane, poy qa ekane kaqe anqrwpos. Lew oti ekane ayto poy qa eprepe na kanei kaqe poliths. Na staqei kai na toys dieykolynei gia na metaferqoyn sto nosokomeio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Malista. Allh erwthsh exete na kanete h qelete na kanete kai allh parathrhsh;

POYLIDOY: Oxi. Prospaqoysa na dieykrinisw thn ``idiaiterh eyaisqhsia''.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exei teqei pote san problhmatismos sto trapezi toy Prwqypoyrgoy me toys synergates toy, to endexomeno kapoia stigmh na meiwqei o ariqmos twn boyleytwn apo 300 se 200;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

BLAXOS: Qa teqei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den nomizw na yparxei kapoio tetoio qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Eipate prohgoymenws swsta oti to Syntagma den einai K.O.K kai den mporei na perilambanei oles tis ryqmiseis. To lene oi syntagmatikoi daskaloi ayton ton oro kai ontws etsi einai. Alla to qema einai para poly shmantiko: Den qa mporoyse parallhla me th syntagmatikh diatajh h kybernhsh na kataqesei kai synolika to pws exei sto myalo ths, ean exei, ta mh kerdoskopika panepisthmia; Na jerei dhladh h ellhnikh koinwnia poy phgainoyme; Giati jerete exei anoijei enas dialogos poy pros to paron periorizetai metajy panepisthmiakwn, metajy forewn ths ekpaideyshs, alla den exoyme dei tis oloklhrwmenes protaseis gi` ayto to panepisthmio, oyte apo thn kybernhsh poy exei thn prwtoboylia alla oyte kai apo ta alla kommata nomizw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei milhsei para polles fores kai h armodia Ypoyrgos alla kai o Kwstas Karamanlhs ws arxhgos ths antipoliteyshs kai ws Prwqypoyrgos. Den yparxoyn polla periqwria parermhneiwn gia ta mh kratika mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmiaka idrymata. Ean dhladh ayto to opoio epanalambanetai apo thn pleyra orismenwn peri idiwtikwn panepisthmiwn einai ayto poy me rwtate, sas lew: Oxi, den einai idiwtika panepisthmia. To idiwtiko panepisthmio h h idiwtikh epixeirhsh exei stoxo to kerdos. Den exei stoxo to kerdos to mh kratiko  mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmiako idryma. Oi stoxoi toy einai teleiws diaforetikoi. Kai aytoys toys teleiws diaforetikoys stoxoys ofeiloyme na dextoyme oti toys exoyn epityxei alles xwres kai mporoyme kai emeis.

GKOYTZANHS: Den qelw na qewrhtikologhsw gia na koyrazw toys synadelfoys, wstoso mporei na mhn einai amesa kerdoskopiko, entajei. Mporei omws na ypagetai se enan epixeirhmatiko omilo kai na ejyphretei thn kerdoforia me thn eyryterh ennoia, lew gia paradeigma. Yparxoyn pragmata ta opoia prepei na dieykrinistoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme toylaxiston ena xrono mprosta mas.

Sas eyxaristw.

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