Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-03-13

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 13 Martioy 2006

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Xronia polla.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eyxaristw poly gia tis eyxes sas. Qa hqela, epishs, na eyxaristhsw kai oloys osoi eixan thn kalosynh na moy eyxhqoyn thlefwnikws h graptws.

Ayrio, stis 11.00, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph, me qema th beltiwsh ths dioikhtikhs ikanothtas ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs. Einai qema toy Ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs kai qa to eishghqei o armodios ypoyrgos.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Poio htan to antikeimeno ths shmerinhs syskechs toy k. Karamanlh me ton k. Soyflia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Syzhthsan gia diafora qemata, kyriws armodiothtas toy ypoyrgeioy PEXWDE gia ta dhmosia erga. O k. Soyflias qa probei se dhlwseis, ean den exei hdh kanei. Otan efeyga apo to Megaro Majimoy, teleiwne kai h synanthsh toys.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh exei paroysiasei sygkekrimeno xronodiagramma me hmeromhnia lhjhs sthn COMMISSION, oson afora to dialogo gia to Asfalistiko; Sygkekrimena rwtw, ean to porisma ths legomenhs ``epitrophs twn sofwn'' qa einai etoimo ton Ioynio toy 2007.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw gia kapoio porisma kai pote qa einai etoimo. H kybernhsh, opws exoyme pei para polles fores, proxwra se mia syzhthsh. Einai ena qema to opoio prepei na syzhthsoyme diejodika, na syzhthsoyn oloi oi koinwnikoi foreis. Qymaste oti eixame enqarrynei to dialogo poy jekinhse apo thn OKE, etsi wste na mporesoyme na lysoyme ta problhmata toy asfalistikoy kai na mhn ta afhsoyme gia tis epomenes genees. Se kaqe periptwsh, exoyme pei oti to epomeno xroniko diasthma ews tis ekloges, qa ejantlhqei sto dialogo.

KAKALHS: Kai me to xronodiagramma dialogoy, dhladh mexri tis ekloges, h yparxei kai nwritera@;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporei na teleiwsei ligo nwritera. En pash periptwsei, sas exw pei jekaqara oti to qema toy dialogoy einai ayto to opoio proexei twra.

KORAH: Ti problhma yparxei akribws me to asfalistiko twn trapezwn; Poios to exei mplokarei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw na exei yparjei kapoioy eidoys mplokarisma sto asfalistiko twn trapezwn. Qa yparjei, ean den exei hdh yparjei, topoqethsh apo to armodio ypoyrgeio.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exw meinei me thn aporia, sth synenteyjh poy eixate dwsei oi treis synarmodioi ypoyrgoi gia to qema twn ypoklopwn, mas eixate pei oti parakoloyqeitai, metajy twn allwn, kai ena thlefwno poy einai xrewmeno sth Nea Dhmokratia kai xrhsimopoiei o Prwqypoyrgos. O k. Korwnias eipe oti breqhke ena thlefwno to opoio apeyqeias htan xrewmeno ston k. Karamanlh. Mporeite na mas peite, ti akribws symbainei me to thlefwno toy Prwqypoyrgoy poy parakoloyqeito;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eixa pei jekaqara apo thn arxh oti prokeitai gia ena thlefwno to opoio einai sto onoma toy Kwsta Karamanlh kai ena deytero thlefwno poy htan sto onoma ths etaireias toy patros toy, to opoio xrhsimopoieito apo synergates ths etaireias kai thn eyryterh oikogeneia Karamanlh. H erwthsh sas moy dinei thn eykairia na pw- anaferomenos se dhlwseis stelexwn toy PASOK oi opoioi espeysan thn perasmenh ebdomada na qriambologhsoyn, den katalabainw gia poio logo alhqeia, legontas oti den yphrxe thlefwno toy K. Karamanlh to opoio na parakoloyqeito- oti exw sta xeria moy thn analytikh katastash kinhsewn logariasmoy toy kinhtoy thlefwnoy sto opoio anaferqhkame apo thn prwth stigmh kai to opoio bebaiws einai sto onoma toy Kwnstantinoy Karamanlh toy Alejandroy. Kai kalw ta stelexh ekeina toy PASOK ta opoia espeysan na poyn tis anakribeies, oxi oti einai h prwth fora poy lene anakribeies, gia pollosth fora lene anakribeies, na zhthsoyn sygnwmh toylaxiston se ayto to qema.

BLAXOS: Dhladh, phge o k. Karamanlhs se kapoio ypokatasthma ths Vodafone kai ekane aithsh kai phre to thlefwno;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Einai ta thlefwna ayta poy eixan doqei edw kai para polla xronia mesw ths Boylhs se oloys toys boyleytes.

SARANTAKOS: Gnwrizete na yparxei qema klhshs sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias ths Boylhs toy k. Papandreoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den gnwrizw. Den parembainoyme sta ths Epitrophs Qesmwn kai Diafaneias. An me rwtate poia einai h proqesh ths kybernhtikhs pleiochfias, qa sas elega pws oxi, den yparxei tetoioy eidoys proqesh.

BLAXOS: Qelw na moy apanthsete se dyo erwthmata: Pws sxoliazete ayto poy eipe o k. Papandreoy oti h kybernhsh ejapathse, ``apath'' eipe, gia to qema ths apografhs; Kai to deytero, qelw na moy sxoliasete th frash toy k. Korwnia oti h kybernhsh ekane epejergasia ths listas me ta onomata oswn parakoloyqoysan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dieykrinisthke kai sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs, giati teqhkan erwthmata gia to deytero qema poy me rwtate. H kybernhsh edwse th lista sth dhmosiothta, afoy prohgoymenws taytopoihse toys ariqmoys twn thlefwnwn poy den htan xrewmenoi se onoma, alla htan xrewmenoi se yphresies, eite htan ypoyrgeia eite alloy eidoys foreis. Ayth htan h taytopoihsh poy egine kai ayth einai h anafora poy egine sth Boylh kai dieykrinisthke.

Se o,ti afora to prwto erwthma sas: Pragmatika, me lyph parakoloyqei kaneis ton kathforo ton opoio exei epilejei na katelqei o k. Papandreoy. O k. Papandreoy jekinhse prin apo peripoy dyo xronia, otan ejelegh Proedros toy PASOK, me enan kainoyrgio logo, me yposxeseis gia monterna politikh symperifora, gia politikh symperifora hqoys, gia politikh symperifora semnothtas kai sobarothtas. Kaqe allo para sobarothta ekpempei h shmerinh symperifora toy k. Papandreoy. Antilambanomaste oloi thn anagkh poy exei na enisxysei to proswpiko toy politiko profil entos toy kommatos toy PASOK. Wstoso h aneyqynothta, h qysia sto bwmo twn entypwsewn gia qemata poy aforoyn to dhmosio symferon, xarakthrizoyn kai qa xarakthrizoyn sto ejhs ton idio. Qa xarakthrizoyn mia epoxh synexeias enos laikistikoy PASOK. Emeis den protiqemeqa na akoloyqhsoyme se symperifores ton k. Papandreoy. Einai krima, giati alla eixe dwsei ws deigmata grafhs ton prwto kairo ths arxhgias toy kai alla pragmatika ypekrypte katw apo to meilixio xamogelo toy.

KORAH: H kybernhsh ekane taytopoihsh se o,ti afora ta teleytaia 67 noymera ta opoia parakoloyqoyse to trito paranomo kentro, to opoio apokalyce h ADAE;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To trito kentro, einai ayto gia to opoio me rwthsate thn perasmenh ebdomada. O k. Antwnaros exei kanei edw dhlwsh gia to an gnwrize h oxi h kybernhsh. Den gnwrize h kybernhsh gia trito kentro. H ypoqesh, einai sth Dikaiosynh. H Dikaiosynh einai ekeinh h opoia ereyna. H kybernhsh den kanei kanenos eidoys kinhsh oyte ekane jexwristes kinhseis apo thn prwth stigmh poy emaqe ayth thn ypoqesh. Thn esteile sth Dikaiosynh kai mesw ths Dikaiosynhs, kinhqhke olh h ereyna. To Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs ekane thn taytopoihsh ekeinh sthn opoia anaferqhka prohgoymenws kai eixe anaferqei kai sthn prwth synenteyjh kai o tote ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs.

MPALHS: Dyo stelexh ths ``Kthmatologio A.E.'' parapempontai se dikh. Taytoxrona blepoyme thn k. Mpoyrmpoylia na epistrefei sthn Ellada meta thn ekdosh ths kai qelw na sas rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh anoigei kai pali to fakelo toy Xrhmatisthrioy kai toy Kthmatologioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prokeitai gia diaforetika qemata metajy toys. Sto zhthma toy Xrhmatisthrioy exw anaferqei polles fores. Oson afora to Kthmatologio, gnwrizete thn pagia arxh na mhn sxoliazw kai na mhn sxoliazei h kybernhsh apofaseis ths ellhnikhs dikaiosynhs. To mono poy qa hqela na pw se politiko epipedo, einai na qymisw oti to Kthmatologio eixe diafhmistei apo thn kybernhsh toy PASOK ws to megalytero apo ta megala erga. Dystyxws, oloi oi Ellhnes polites eidan oti ena katejoxhn ergo anaptyjhs apotelese pedio mias aney prohgoymenoy kakodiaxeirishs. Mias kakodiaxeirishs h opoia diapistwqhke, opws oloi gnwrizete, apo thn E.E., poy to 2001 epebale prostimo sth xwra mas ycoys 100 ekatommyriwn eyrw. Dhladh zhthse pisw to synolo twn xrhmatwn poy eixe dwsei gia to Kthmatologio. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta poy afora ton tropo poy xeirizotan ta megala qemata h prohgoymenh kybernhsh. To Kthmatologio apotelei pragmatika mia ypoqesh - kleidi. Ayth th dyskolh pragmatikothta paralabame stis 7 Martioy, me tis ekloges toy 2004. Einai pragmati aqlos oti h kybernhsh kai eidika to ypoyrgeio PEXWDE katafere na ejasfalisei th symfwnia ths E.E. gia na proxwrhsei me plhrh diafaneia kai pio orqologiko tropo, me neoys pleon ryqmoys sthn katartish toy Kthmatologioy.

KYRITSHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, prin apo merikes ebdomades o Prwqypoyrgos sygkentrwse mia omada kaqhghtwn syntagmatologwn, ws epi tw pleiston, gia na melethsoyn ti mporei na ginei me th diasfalish toy aporrhtoy k.t.l. Qelw na moy peite, poy brisketai ayth h ypoqesh, giati perase kairos. Eixe pei o k. Tsatsos, bgainontas apo to Majimoy, oti meta apo deka hmeres qa exoyme nea.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Perimenoyme thn protash ths omadas sthn opoia den metexoyn mono kaqhghtes syntagmatikoy Dikaioy, alla kai kaqhghtes poinikoy Dikaioy, kaqws kai kaqhghtes toy Polytexneioy poy gnwrizoyn texnika zhthmata. Prin apo liges hmeres, eixa mia epafh me ton k. Tsatso. Ypologizoyn oti ews tis 20 Martioy na exoyn oloklhrwsei tis protaseis kai na tis kataqesoyn ston Prwqypoyrgo.

BLAXOS: Shmera, blepontas ta pragmata opws exoyn ejelixqei kai blepontas oti h ADAE mesa se 15 hmeres katorqwse na bgalei ena porisma epishmainontas polla pragmata poy synebhsan sto qema twn ypoklopwn, metaniwnete gia to gegonos oti den balate amesws thn ADAE na syndramei thn ellhnikh Dikaiosynh sthn ereyna;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh, opws exw pei polles fores, ws mia apo tis treis ejoysies, ws enas apo toys treis pylwnes ths Dhmokratias, apeyqynqhke sto deytero pylwna ths Dhmokratias, poy einai h dikastikh ejoysia, prokeimenoy na ereynhsei ayth thn ypoqesh. Bebaiws, h ypoqesh diereynhqhke kai synexizei na diereynatai sto anwtato dynato epipedo, giati -opws gnwrizete- den exei kleisei.

BLAXOS: To erwthma moy einai, ean metaniwsate poy den balate thn ADAE na syndramei to ergo ths Dikaiosynhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa oti h kybernhsh apeyqynqhke sth Dikaiosynh kai h Dikaiosynh, ws yperkeimenh arxh, ekane th doyleia ths.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Blepoyme erga triwn-tessarwn-pente etwn, ta opoia boyliazoyn. Qa yparjoyn pote kyrwseis se aytoys poy exoyn kataskeyasei ta erga;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn erga ta opoia ontws exoyn problhmata. Exoyme kata kairoys dei tetoia problhmata. Qa sas qymisw oti molis prin apo liges hmeres o neos ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs k. Tsitoyridhs episkefthke to Olympiako Xwrio. Diapistwse kai idiois ommasi, opws exoyn diapistwsei kai oi texnikes yphresies, problhmata kai dhlwse oti proxwra sthn peraiterw diereynhsh toy qematos prin paralhfqei oristika to Olympiako Xwrio apo thn ellhnikh Politeia. Katopin entolhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy, opoy yparxoyn paratypies kai opoy diapistwnontai problhmata, h shmerinh kybernhsh, oi ypoyrgoi, oi yfypoyrgoi, oi armodioi dioikhtes twn forewn, ayto poy exoyn na kanoyn einai na proxwroyn stis aparaithtes nomikes energeies.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Epishs, h Kakia Skala eprepe na exei teleiwsei prin apo toys Olympiakoys Agwnes kai akomh synexizetai. Pote qa teleiwsei; Mhpws mporei na moy pei kapoios apo thn kybernhsh pote qa teleiwsei ayto to ergo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mhn mpoyme se poly sygkekrimena qemata. Anefera to paradeigma toy Olympiakoy Xwrioy, to opoio einai men sygkekrimeno, alla einai se epirrwsh aytoy poy eipate. Oti, dhladh, polles fores briskontai erga poy parelhfqhsan se kakh katastash prin kan jekinhsoyn na leitoyrgoyn. Ayto poy kanei h shmerinh kybernhsh einai oti den ``koykoylwnei'' ta pragmata. Frontizei na diapistwsei giati ayta ta erga den leitoyrgoyn kai bebaiws na epiballei tis aparaithtes kyrwseis.

KAKALHS: Sxediazei h kybernhsh na epitaxynei toys ryqmoys sta ejoplistika programmata, meta thn allagh toy tropoy ypologismoy twn amyntikwn dapanwn, oson afora thn eggrafh toys ston proypologismo; Dhladh, qewrei oti meta thn apofash ths EUROSTAT lynontai ta xeria ths gia na proxwrhsei sthn paraggelia gia ta 10 epipleon F-16, alla maxhtika aeroskafh h fregates k.t.l.;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To ena qema den sxetizetai me to allo.

KAKALHS: Yphrxe mia dyskolia, oson afora tis nees paraggelies, giati htan plhrhs o proypologismos twn epomenwn xronwn, na to pw etsi, apo toys prohgoymenoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei h apofash ths kybernhshs, en prokeimenw toy KYSEA, gia otidhpote exei na kanei me ejoplistika programmata. Prokeitai gia apofash poy lambanetai katopin eishghshs toy armodioy ypoyrgoy. Den exw ypoch moy, sthn atzenta twn epomenwn hmerwn, syzhthsh gia opoiodhpote qema afora promhqeia ejoplistikwn programmatwn mesa apo to KYSEA.

KAKALHS: Den synedriazei to KYSEA mesa sthn ebdomada;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epanalambanw oti den exw kati perissotero, ayth th stigmh, apo ta osa hdh einai gnwsta. Otan synedriasei to KYSEA, o armodios ypoyrgos qa kanei tis eishghseis toy kai bebaiws to KYSEA qa labei tis apofaseis toy. Wstoso, to ena qema den sxetizetai amesws h eyqews me to allo. Mia politikh apofash promhqeiwn oplikwn programmatwn den exei na kanei me to oti twra poy h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, h EUROSTAT, brhke epiteloys ton tropo me ton opoio qa diatypwnontai apo edw kai pera sta keimena twn dapanwn oi promhqeies amyntikoy ejoplismoy, amesws na proxwrhsei se mia allh politikh h epixeirhsiakh apofash poy exei na kanei me thn promhqeia oplikwn systhmatwn.

BLAXOS: H apanthsh sas gia to Olympiako Xwrio kai gia to gegonos oti o k. Tsitoyridhs brhke kai diapistwse problhmata, exei bebaia stoxo to PASOK, alla exei stoxo, apo o,ti katalabainw, kai ton prohgoymeno ypoyrgo, ton k. Panagiwtopoylo, o opoios den mas eixe pei pote oti brhke problhmata sto Olympiako Xwrio. Ta kalypte; Den mporoyse na ta entopisei; Ti akribws synebaine;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den symfwnw me thn ermhneia sas. Ekeino poy ekana htan na parw to paradeigma toy Olympiakoy Xwrioy gia na anaferw se epirrwsh twn oswn rwthse o synadelfos sas oti ontws yparxoyn erga ta opoia einai pros paradosh. Erga poy emeinan apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, erga poy eixan jekinhsei kai antimetwpizoyn problhmata. Ayta ta problhmata prospaqei h kybernhsh na ta lysei.

BLAXOS: Ayto to katalaba. Alla, epi dyo xronia o prohgoymenos ypoyrgos ayta ta problhmata den mporoyse na ta entopisei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti eixame toys Olympiakoys Agwnes, poy eginan me poly megalh epityxia. Xrhsimopoihqhke to Olympiako Xwrio. Sth synexeia, eprepe na ginoyn mia seira apo metatropes gia na doqei se diaforetikh xrhsh apo ayth gia thn opoia prooristhke otan jekinhse na xtizetai. Einai allo to Olympiako Xwrio poy filojenei mono aqlhtes kai allo mia oloklhrh polh me dekades nees xrhseis poy prepei na dhmioyrghqoyn.

KYRITSHS: Sto metro poy oi HPA arnhqhkan na apodesmeysoyn ta opla poy zhtoyse h Polemikh Aeroporia gia na nea F-16, h kybernhsh epimenei sthn energopoihsh toy dikaiwmatos proaireshs gia deka prosqeta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na pw tipote perissotero. Qa hqela na parakalesw -to exw pei polles fores- otan milame gia poly sygkekrimena qemata poy anaferontai se kapoia ypoyrgeia, na ypoballontai oi erwthseis sta antistoixa ypoyrgeia.

KORAH: Dedomenoy oti exoyn perasei ennea mhnes apo thn chfish ths tropologias gia thn eqeloysia ejodo ston OTE, yparxoyn kai ekei kaqysterhseis. Mporeite na mas dwsete akribws to plaisio, mexri se poio shmeio exei ftasei h efarmogh kai poy yparxei, an yparxei, kapoio empodio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete apeyqynqei ston OTE h sto ypoyrgeio Metaforwn kai Epikoinwniwn kai den exete parei apanthsh;

KORAH: Epeidh h metarryqmish einai kentrikh kybernhtikh politikh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ws politikh prajh, bebaiws. Alla h efarmogh ths metarryqmishs ths kaqe prajhs ginetai apo ypoyrgoys, apo ypoyrgeia, apo organismoys, apo dioikhtes organismwn, apo foreis k.o.k. Sas parakalw gia otidhpote poio sygkekrimeno, apeyqynqeite ekei.

SARANTAKOS: O symboylos toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Iwannhs Kefalogiannhs aphyqyne apo kanali ths Krhths mia systash pros ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias oti prepei na synennoeitai me thn kybernhsh. Symfwneite eseis me ayth th systash-ektimhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw th diatypwsh ayths ths systashs poy lete. Kai epeidh eimai poly epifylaktikos -den exei na kanei proswpika me esas- otan moy metaferontai dhlwseis sthn aiqoysa toy press-room, den sxoliazw.

SARANTAKOS: Epeidh epaije kai sta aqhnaika kanalia, gi` ayto kai sas to lew. Grafthke kai stis efhmerides, alla epaije kai h dhlwsh toy k. Kefalogiannh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den etyxe na th dw.

KORAH: Yparxei kapoio sygkekrimeno programma metarryqmisewn sto eggys mellon;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To programma twn metarryqmisewn exei eipwqei para polles fores. Stoxeyei sthn allagh nootropiwn se o,ti afora thn oikonomia. Stoxeyei sth diarkh anaptyjh. Stoxeyei se mia seira apo allages sth dhmosia dioikhsh. Mia seira apo allages ston tropo leitoyrgias twn DEKO. Einai metarryqmiseis poy exoyn mpei se efarmogh, afoy perasan oi aparaithtoi nomoi, edw kai para poly kairo. Aytes oi metarryqmiseis synexizontai. H megalh allagh se o,ti afora thn oikonomia, exei na kanei me tis metarryqmiseis aytes kai ayto einai to ena kefalaio. Kai to deytero kefalaio exei na kanei me mia aoknh prospaqeia olwn, to teleytaio ena-enamish xrono, prokeimenoy na mporesoyme na antimetwpisoyme ta megala elleimmata kai na ftasoyme sta epipeda poy oloi exoyme symfwnhsei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh oti einai apodekta metajy twn xwrwn ths. Ayto qa to epityxoyme. Na eiste bebaioi.

KORAH: To elleimma den qa htan poly mikrotero ean yphrxe diaforetikh katagrafh twn amyntikwn ejoplismwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto to epixeirhma to akoysa thn perasmenh ebdomada. Einai san na qelei kaneis na perigracei -qa to pw sxhmatika- thn ejhs katastash: Ginetai shmera enas nomos kai me bash to shmerino nomo krinei kati poy egine prin apo dyo-tria-pente xronia. Egine pragmati apopeira apo thn pleyra toy PASOK na perigrafei ws diastreblwsh poy dhqen epixeirhse h Nea Dhmokratia. Poia einai, omws, h pragmatikothta; H pragmatikothta einai oti h EUROSTAT apofasise enan eniaio tropo katagrafhs twn amyntikwn dapanwn stoys proypologismoys, apo edw kai pera. Ayto, loipon, poy apofasisthke shmera gia to ``apo edw kai pera'' einai toylaxiston meros entypwsiasmoy na to parei kaneis kai na to xrhsimopoihsei gia to parelqon. Deyteron -kai shmantikotero- to elleimma eixe ftasei to 6,6%. Htan sto 1,5% poy mas elege h prohgoymenh kybernhsh, o k. Shmiths h mhpws afairoymenwn akomh kai 2 monadwn, na pw egw, poy den einai 2 monades apo tis amyntikes dapanes, dhladh na paroyme akoma -me diastaltikh ermhneia- kai ayth thn proseggish poy ekanan kapoioi sto PASOK kai na poyme, as afairesoyme apo tis 6,6% tis 2 monades poy anaferontai stis amyntikes dapanes. Epefte katw apo to 3%; Htan se kamia periptwsh 1,5%; Oxi, bebaia. Kai ena trito shmeio se o,ti afora tis amyntikes dapanes: Ekeina ta 8 dis, poy akomh anazhta to PASOK, mhpws mporei na mas pei ean ta brhke kai poy ta eixe katagracei; Giati den breqhkan poyqena; Den eixan katagrafei poyqena ws amyntikes dapanes. Aytoi, loipon, oi opoioi prospaqhsan na plastografhsoyn toys ariqmoys kai twra prospaqoyn na plastografhsoyn thn istoria, na einai bebaioi oti apeyqynontai se polites poy kai noy exoyn kai antilhch exoyn kai katalabainoyn poly kala. Katalabainoyn poly kala oti h apografh anedeije to megeqos twn plastografiwn, to megeqos twn problhmatwn poy afhse pisw ths h oikonomikh politikh PASOK.

BLAXOS: Ayta ta 8 dis poy ta caxnoyn oloi kai den ta briskoyn kai den exoyn eggrafei ws amyntikes dapanes, yponoeite h afhnete na ennohqei oti mporei na apoteloyn proion mizas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Lew oti me meqodeyseis opws aytes poy anefera prohgoymenws, oi kybernhseis toy PASOK apekrycan synolika sthn periodo 1997-2003 elleimmata panw apo 8 dis, 8,4 dis gia thn akribeia. Ayta, loipon, ta anaferw ws stoixeia akribws se apodeijh oti egrafan o,ti hqelan stoys proypologismoys, prokeimenoy na mas peisoyn oti phgainan kala oi proypologismoi kai oti to elleimma htan katw apo to 3%. An loipon, apekryptan dapanes, apekryptan xreh, apekryptan elleimmata, emfanizan to poso poy hqelan. Apekryptan posa ta opoia, enw eixan plhrwqei, enw eprepe na pane sta antistoixa shmeia toy proypologismoy, den phgainan kai emfanizotan entelws plasth eikona gia thn oikonomia.

BLAXOS: Otan, loipon, ena poso 8 dis den exei kataxwrhqei poyqena, einai profanes oti ayto kapoy exei paei. Poy exei paei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayta phgainan se amyntikes dapanes, alla to PASOK den ta kategrafe. Ayto leme.

MPALHS: Exei dhmioyrghqei ena sygkroysiako klima. Dhladh, eseis shmera exete ejapolysei epiqesh sto PASOK gia to Kthmatologio, gia thn apografh, gia tis ypoklopes kai anarwtiemai pws qa paei h kybernhsh se syzhthsh gia to asfalistiko me aytoys toys oroys kai pws qa paei h kybernhsh se syzhthsh gia thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos. Pisteyete oti bohqa to klima aytes tis prwtoboylies;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti hmoyn arketa hpios se sxesh me ayta poy ekstomise xqes o k. Papandreoy. Mallon qa prepei kaneis na me kathgorhsei gia hpiothta apenanti se ayta poy o k. Papandreoy ekstomise xqes, katebazontas to politiko epipedo ths antiparaqeshs kai gyrizontas ton topo se alles epoxes poy den timoyn poly perissotero ton idion.

POYLIDOY: To PASOK apanthse gi` ayta ta 8 dis. Eipe oti ta eixe katagracei sto xreos kai oxi sto elleimma. Ara, koitate se laqos shmeio toy proypologismoy kai oti me thn apoplhrwmh qa pernoysan sto elleimma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To PASOK, loipon, kategrafe tis amyntikes dapanes opoy ekeino nomize, opoy hqele. H nea katagrafh -ayto poy erxetai twra h EUROSTAT na mas pei oti prepei na ginetai me ayto ton tropo- den mporei na afora to parelqon, epanalambanw. Afora to apo edw kai pera. Ara, loipon, to PASOK prospaqhse na aitiologhsei ti eixe kanei me ta 8 dis. Den mporei na aitiologhsei peistika, opws peistika den mporei na aitiologhsei pws to elleimma apo 1,5% poy mas elege o k. Shmiths, breqhke sto 6,6%. Ayto, an mh ti allo, den nomizw na to amfisbhtei to PASOK. Bghke h EUROSTAT, bghkan oi armodioi eyrwpaikoi paragontes, estalh mia seira epistolwn apo thn pleyra stelexwn toy PASOK kai phran mia apanthsh xastoyki gia to ti egine sthn apografh. O idios o k. Shmiths eixe gracei ena arqro stoys ``Financial Times'' kai epishs phre mia apanthsh poy den synefere kaqoloy to PASOK. H alhqeia exei fanei. Gi` ayto milhsa gia kapoioys poy plastografoysan epi seira etwn ariqmoys kai twra prospaqoyn na plastografhsoyn thn istoria. Na antistrecoyn thn pragmatikothta.

KYRITSHS: Apo edw kai pera qa ta bazete sto xreos h sto elleimma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opoy symfwnhqhke me th EUROSTAT. Kai bebaiws oles oi ypoloipes eyrwpaikes xwres symfwnoyn. Alla, epanalambanw, dioti ayto kindyneyei na bgalei ayqaireta symperasmata: Den mporei kapoios me ryqmish poy ginetai shmera na kanei anagwgh sto parelqon.

KYRITSHS: Sto xreos, dhladh. Apagoreyotan sto parelqon ayth h praktikh; Den htan mia apo tis qemites praktikes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas ejhgw kai pali oti den htan h pleon qemith praktikh. Htan enas tropos me ton opoio to PASOK prospaqhse na apokrycei mia seira elleimmatwn. Omws, kai shmeiwste to ayto ean qelete, akoma ki an afairoyse kapoios tis amyntikes dapanes -to eipa prohgoymenws- se kamia periptwsh to elleimma den eftane ekei poy to PASOK yposthrizei.

KYRITSHS: Den rwthsa ayto, bebaia, ean apantate se emena.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa sthn prwth erwthsh sas.

KYRITSHS: O Italos Prwqypoyrgos k. Mperloyskoni diorganwnei mia ekdhlwsh-fiesta, toy ELK, h opoia qa ton enisxysei sthn proeklogikh toy ekstrateia. Qa hqela na rwthsw ean parastei o Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean o k. Mperloyskoni diorganwnei kapoia ekdhlwsh, opws lete. Mallon exete laqos plhroforhsh, ektos ki an skopimws kanete ena tetoio sxolio gia na apajiwsete th synanthsh toy ELK.

KYRITSHS: Einai apajiwtikh h anafora ston k. Mperloyskoni; Epeidh sympiptei me tis ekloges.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw ean eseis qewreite tis politikes sygkentrwseis twn kommatwn ``fiestes''. Egw exw allh entypwsh. Qelw na sas pw oti einai mia synanthsh toy ELK. Tetoies synanthseis ginontai syxna kai metexoyn oloi oi hgetes twn kommatwn toy ELK. Yparxei mia endiaferoysa apanthsh se ena qema poy eteqh apo ton Proedro ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy Eyrwpaikoy Sosialistikoy Kommatos, gi` ayth thn ypoqesh. Prokeitai gia thn apanthsh toy k. Martens, sthn opoia sas parapempw giati fainetai oti to sosialistiko komma den exei mono sthn Ellada problhmata endosynennohshs, ta exoyn kai sthn Eyrwph se kentriko epipedo.

MANH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, telika, o Prwqypoyrgos qa dwsei synenteyjh Typoy ef olhs ths ylhs, sthn Enwsh Jenwn Antapokritwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei anakoinwqei kati tetoio.

MANH: Epishs, meleta to programma periodeiwn toy sth xwra, opws anaferoyn oi plhrofories;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, o Prwqypoyrgos kanei syxna periodeies kai qa synexisei. Se o,ti afora th synenteyjh: Otan yparjei qema synenteyjhs, qa sas to anakoinwsw, mhn anhsyxeite.

KAKALHS: Qa epanelqw sto asfalistiko. To teleytaio gkalop, deixnei oti 7 stoys 10 erwthqentes den empisteyontai thn kybernhsh sto xeirismo toy qematos. Qa hqela ena sxolio ep` aytoy. Kai deyteron, poio na einai to nohma ths symmetoxhs twn ergazomenwn se enan dialogo gia to asfalistiko, apo th stigmh poy oi allages poy qa epelqoyn, poy dromologoyntai, qa einai oles eis baros toys, me dedomeno oti o idios o k. Alogoskoyfhs eipe se teleytaia dhlwsh toy oti ta oria syntajiodothshs qa einai sto plaisio toy dialogoy, dhladh, pros thn kateyqynsh ths ayjhshs ennoeitai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na prosqesw tipota perissotero apo ta osa exoyme pei kai osa eipa kai sthn arxh ths shmerinhs enhmerwshs mas. Anaferqhkate se dhmoskophsh poy dhmosieyqhke sto ``EQNOS'' kai mila gia sxedon 8 stoys 10 poy pisteyoyn oti prepei na yparjoyn allages sto asfalistiko. Eseis phrate ena megeqos kai to xrhsimopoihsate. Den antilegw.

KAKALHS: Ayto poy afora thn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sth dhmoskophsh yparxei kai ayto to megeqos, sto opoio anafereste. Yparxei omws kai ena allo, oti 8 stoys 10 Ellhnes pisteyoyn oti prepei na ginoyn allages sto asfalistiko. Ara, loipon, einai se kaqe periptwsh swsth h prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs, ean dexqoyme ayth th dhmoskophsh ws ergaleio doyleias, na anoijei dialogo gia ena meizon qema poy to 80% twn politwn exoyn thn pepoiqhsh oti prepei na ginei kati, prepei na allajoyn pragmata.

KAKALHS: Oi ergazomenoi einai logiko na qeloyn na ginei kati sthn kateyqynsh toy na beltiwqoyn oi syntajeis, poy einai syntajeis peinas. Alla, h kybernhsh den kineitai se ayth thn kateyqynsh. Kineitai akribws sthn antiqeth, sth meiwsh twn syntajewn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai mia ektimhsh sthn opoia den qa symfwnhsw se kamia periptwsh. H kybernhsh kinhqhke pantote, apo thn prwth hmera poy anelabe, sthn enisxysh twn xamhlosyntajioyxwn. Kai mono to gegonos oti hre ena baros pollwn etwn, opws htan to LAFKA kai apedwse stoys syntajioyxoys to poso poy parakrateito -kai oxi mono ayto poy eixe desmeyqei na kanei sto proeklogiko ths programma, alla kai se baqos xronoy kai anadromika dhladh- deixnei ton sebasmo ths kybernhshs stoys syntajioyxoys kai thn eyaisqhsia sthn koinwnikh mas politikh.

BLAXOS: Qelw na gyrisw sto qema twn ypoklopwn: Mhpws mporeite na moy peite thn apanthsh poy sas edwse o k. Korwnias, otan ton rwthsate pws parakoloyqoysan to thlefwno poy htan xrewmeno sthn AKETE, thn anwnymh texnikh etaireia ths oikogeneias Karamanlh, to opoio xrhsimopoioyse h oikogeneia; Pws aytoi gnwrizan oti aytos o ariqmos, poy anhke sthn AKETE, mporoyse na xrhsimopoihqei apo thn oikogeneia Karamanlh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw. Einai bebaio oti doqhke mia seira thlefwnikwn ariqmwn. Alla htan hdh taytopoihmena se poioys anhkoyn, alla xreiasthke na taytopoihqoyn sthn poreia. Ean anafereste, emmesws plhn safws, se arsh aporrhtoy, den eimai se qesh na apanthsw. Jerw oti exei ginei mia tetoia erwthsh sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias. Se kaqe periptwsh, qa hqela -akoma kai ean den mporw na apanthsw sth shmerinh sas erwthsh- na epishmanw gia deyterh fora kai moy dinete thn eykairia na to kanw- oti osoi espeysan na poyn lanqasmena pragmata se sxesh me ton sygkekrimeno ariqmo, ofeiloyn shmera na ta anaskeyasoyn.

XIWTHS: Epeidh den katalaba thn prohgoymenh apanthsh sas sthn erwthsh, o Prwqypoyrgos exei labei pragmati epistolh apo to Sosialistiko Komma na mhn metabei, na mhn parastei sth Synodo toy Laikoy Kommatos; Ayto prwton kai deyteron, ean protiqetai na metasxei sth Synodo ayth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Soylts esteile mia epistolh se oloys toys Eyrwpaioys hgetes, twn kommatwn poy metexoyn sto Eyrwpaiko Laiko Komma. Sthn epistolh ayth apanthse o k. Martens -exw antigrafo ths epistolh, qa ekdoqei omws epishmws apo to Eyrwpaiko Laiko Komma kai den einai dokimo na th dwsw egw prin th dwsei to Eyrwpaiko Laiko Komma- sthn opoia, metajy allwn, anaferei oti fainetai pws o k. Soylts mallon kinhqhke xwris na exei thn egkrish toy Eyrwpaikoy Sosialistikoy Kommatos. Fainetai, loipon, oti yparxoyn problhmata kai entos. O k. Papandreoy o opoios einai kai Proedros ths Sosialistikhs Dieqnoys, nomizw oti qa htan kalo na topoqethqei se ayto to qema. Ean, dhladh, symfwnei me tetoioy eidoys apeilhtikes epistoles, otan stelnontai se Eyrwpaioys hgetes. Einai mia kainoyrgia praktikh ayth poy akoloyqoyn oi Eyrwpaioi sosialistes; Apeiloyn; Poioys ; Foreis dhmokratias kai dhmokratikwn pepoiqhsewn qewroyn oti einai mono aytoi kai afairoyn ayto to dikaiwma apo ola ta alla dhmokratika eklegmena kommata ths E.E.; Einai mia endiaferoysa ypoqesh. Elpizw kai o k. Papandreoy qa parei qesh entos ths hmeras. Allwste, apo to ychlo ajiwma sto opoio brisketai, ofeilei na topoqethqei.

BLAXOS: Gia to qanato Milosebits qa hqela na mas kanete ena sxolio, ean exete katalhjei apo thn plhroforhsh sas, ti akribws symbainei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na meinw sth xqesinh anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn.

XIWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos qa parastei telikws sth Synodo toy Eyrwpaikoy Laikoy Kommatos h den toy epitrepoyn alles@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Synhqws phgainei o Prwqypoyrgos. Den gnwrizw na yparxei kati diaforetiko. Den to jerw, alla se kamia periptwsh bebaiws, den prokeitai na paijei rolo h anoikeia epistolh thn opoia aphyqyne o k. Soylts.

XIWTHS: Qewreite oti aytoy toy eidoys h Synodos, sthn kardia ths proeklogikhs periodoy sthn Italia, den qa ephreasei to eklogiko swma sth geitonikh xwra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy zhtate na mpw sth logikh toy eklogikoy swmatos ths Italias. Den mporw na to kanw, exw pragmatika adynamia na to kanw. Gia paradeigma, sth Rodo eixe erqei sosialisths Prwqypoyrgos kai sthrije ton k. Papandreoy. Rwthste toys Rodites na deite ean toys ephrease otan chfisan kai ean chfisan yper toy PASOK epeidh hrqe sosialisths Prwqypoyrgos na sthrijei ton k. Papandreoy. Se kaqe periptwsh, den exoyme na kanoyme me proeklogikh sygkentrwsh. Exoyme na kanoyme me Synodo toy Eyrwpaikoy Laikoy Kommatos, h opoia einai anejarthth apo thn opoiadhpote eklogikh antiparaqesh.

XIWTHS: Epeidh qymamai mia antistoixh atyph Synodo toy ELK, sthn Aqhna, paramones twn eklogwn, opoy eixe erqei o k. Mperloyskoni kai eixe kanei poly qermes dhlwseis gia ton k. Karamanlh, prin ginei Prwqypoyrgos, mhpws@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eixan erqei polloi Prwqypoyrgoi sth Synodo ayth.

XIWTHS: Metajy twn opoiwn kai o k. Mperloyskoni.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den amfisbhtw ayta ta opoia lete. Lew omws oti exoyme na kanoyme me mia Synodo toy ELK. Metexoyn synhqws oi hgetes twn kommatwn. Ean den mporoyn giati antimetwpizoyn kapoioy eidoys kwlyma, tote mporei na parastei kapoios allos. Epanaferw, omws -kai nomizw oti qa to diabasei o k. Aqanasakhs kai qa enhmerwsei ton k. Papandreoy- to erwthma pros ton Proedro ths Sosialistikhs Dieqnoys. Symfwnei me tetoies antidhmokratikes meqodoys, oi opoies anti na bohqoyn thn prowqhsh ths dhmokratias sthn E.E., dhmioyrgoyn antiparaqeseis, poy parapempoyn se palaiotera eth , parapempoyn se periodoys poy oloi qeloyme na afhsoyme pisw mas gia mia nea kalyterh E.E.

KORAH: Toy xrwstaei o Prwqypoyrgos toy k. Mperloyskoni th sthrijh poy toy edwse thn proeklogikh periodo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den xrwstaei se kanenan o Prwqypoyrgos. Einai apolytws entajei stis ypoxrewseis toy.

XIWTHS: Fantazomai qa parakoloyqhsate thn praktikh toy Italoy Prwqypoyrgoy na apoxwrhsei apo mia synenteyjh, kataggellontas dhmosiografo gia ``aristerh''. Hqela na jerw tetoioy eidoys praktikes, pws tis blepei h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos, h kybernhsh alla kai o Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos toy den exoyn probei se tetoies praktikes. Den exoyn metelqei tetoiwn praktikwn.

Sas eyxaristw.

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