Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-02-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 22 Febroyarioy 2006

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 09:00, qa milhsei sth synanthsh twn Ypoyrgwn Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn twn xwrwn-melwn ths Diadikasias Synergasias Notioanatolikhs Eyrwphs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, giati den katebazete ena nomo, na apagoreysete entelws tis apergies, na mhn talaipwrhste oyte eseis, oyte oi ergazomenoi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se aploysteyseis, den apantw.

KYRITSHS: Qelw na moy ejhghsete to skeptiko me to opoio proxwrhsate se politikh epistrateysh, aytoys toys logoys ygeias. Giati den toys exw katalabei. Kindyneyei h ygeia twn Krhtikwn h twn katoikwn twn nhsiwn; Giati sas qymizw, pro triwn - tessarwn ebdomadwn, htan h Kefalonia dyo ebdomades xwris reyma kai den thn khryjate se katastash ektakths anagkhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai dyo teleiws diaforetika qemata kai mhn ta mplekete, mhn ta mperdeyete, oso kai an qelete na dhmioyrghsete entypwseis. To zhthma einai oti dhmioyrghqhke mia seira apo megala koinwnika problhmata kai h kybernhsh eprepe na labei kapoia metra. Prin jekinhsei h kybernhsh ayth th diadikasia, qelw na sas qymisw oti ekane mia seira syzhthsewn me thn Panellhnia Naytikh Omospondia. H teleytaia prospaqeia egine xqes, otan klhqhke h Panellhnia Naytikh Omospondia (PNO) na anasteilei thn apergia ths, gia na janarxisei h syzhthsh gia ta zhthmata ta opoia exei qesei ws aithmata.

Qelw epishs na qymisw @yparxei analytikh anafora se mia seira anakoinwsewn toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy- oti ta perissotera apo ta aithmata ths PNO exoyn hdh ikanopoihqei. Dyo aithmata ta opoia proballei kai einai oikonomika aithmata: To men ena, ayjhsh kata 25% toy efapaj mesa se 12 mhnes. Nea ayjhsh kata 25% toy efapaj. Persi h kybernhsh ikanopoihse to aithma na ayjhqei to efapaj twn ergazomenwn sthn aktoploia kata 25%, mia ayjhsh posostiaia megalyterh apo kaqe allh poy exei yparjei mexri twra. Fetos, mesa se 12 mhnes, oi ergazomenoi zhthsan nea ayjhsh pali kata 25%. H kybernhsh, loipon, para tayta kai anagnwrizontas oti einai xamhlo to efapaj twn ergazomenwn kai paroti to efapaj, opws gnwrizete, ypologizetai symfwna me tis eisfores poy exei plhrwsei kapoios sth diarkeia ths ergasias toy eipe oti syzhta mazi toys to qema. To deytero aithma twn ergazomenwn exei na kanei me sxedon katarghsh ths forologhshs toys. Gnwrizete poly kala -kai emeis ws antipoliteysh eixame taxqei yper ths stadiakhs meiwshs ths forologhshs, pragma to opoio den allazei tis qeseis mas oyte shmera- oti h forologhsh twn ajiwmatikwn sthn aktoploia einai ths tajews toy 6%. H forologhsh twn katwterwn plhrwmatwn einai ths tajews toy 3%. Oi perissoteroi Ellhnes polites forologoyntai me 15, 20, 30 h kai 40%. Otan, loipon, yparxei aithma gia katarghsh teleiws ths forologhshs, antilambaneste oti ayto einai ena zhthma poy jefeygei apo ta oria toy Syntagmatos. To Syntagma orizei oti oloi oi Ellhnes polites einai isoi apenanti sto Syntagma, apenanti sthn Politeia.

H kybernhsh, loipon, ejantlhse polla periqwria, giati se ola ta qesmika zhthmata ta opoia eteqhsan edwse apanthseis kai malista qetikes. As doyme merikes apo aytes: Einai gnwsto oti h kybernhsh sto prwto aithma poy eixe ypobalei h PNO gia ejasfalish toy syntagmatika katoxyrwmenoy dikaiwmatos gia ergasia kai amesh aporrofhsh olwn twn prosferomenwn gia ergasia anergwn Ellhnwn naytergatwn, kinhqhke poly grhgora, anagnwrizontas thn prosfora toy Ellhna naytergath. Prwton, epidothse tis asfalistikes eisfores twn ergazomenwn stis kroyazieres poy eixe ws apotelesma na dromologhqoyn 4 nea kroyazieroploia me ellhnikh shmaia kai na brei doyleia, mesa se syntomo xroniko diasthma, to 13% twn anergwn naytikwn. Apo osoys de htan eggegrammenoi sto Grafeio Eyresews Naytikhs Ergasias, to 13% kai apo toys epidotoymenoys anergoys naytikoys, to 32% na brei doyleia me mia mono qesmikh kinhsh ths kybernhshs. Mia deyterh qesmikh kinhsh ths kybernhshs htan h dekamhnh epandrwsh aktoploikwn epibathgwn ploiwn. Na doyleyoyn, dhladh, 10 mhnes to xrono kai oxi 3, 4 h 5 mhnes, analoga me th saizon. Dhladh, na yparxei ergasia gia toys naytikoys epi 10 mhnes to xrono. Ayth htan h deyterh kinhsh ths kybernhshs. Ayto to opoio syzhta h kybernhsh ws aithma twn ergazomenwn, apergwn twra, einai h idrysh anejarthtoy Eidikoy Tameioy Anergias. Den eipame pote oxi, eipame oti to syzhtoyme.

To tetarto qema einai ayto poy sas eipa prohgoymenws: Aithma gia ayjhsh kata 25% toy efapaj, otan ayto to aithma egine dekto persi kai ayjhqhke to efapaj hdh kata 25%. Mesa se 12 mhnes yparxei neo aithma gia nea ayjhsh ycoys 25%. Kai se ayto -epanalambanw- h kybernhsh den htan kathgorhmatika arnhtikh. Eipe na to syzhthsoyme kai na doyme ta xronika periqwria ta opoia exoyme. Wstoso, oi ergazomenoi sth xqesinh syzhthsh me ton Ypoyrgo Naytilias, afoy zhthsan dyo wres periqwrio, apanthsan pws den dexontai th syzhthsh aytoy toy qematos kai th mellontikh ikanopoihsh toy, alla hqelan edw kai twra na ginoyn ola.

Se o,ti afora to qema ths forologhshs, einai perissotero apo safes. Oi perissoteroi Ellhnes polites forologoyntai me forologikes klimakes ths tajews toy 15, 20, 30 h kai 40%. Epanalambanw oti h forologhsh twn ajiwmatikwn kineitai sto 6%, twn de katwterwn plhrwmatwn sto 3%. To aithma einai na meiwqei twn ajiwmatikwn sto 3% kai twn katwterwn plhrwmatwn sto 0 h sto 1%.

Telos, qelw na anaferqw sto nomosxedio gia to opoio egine pollh syzhthsh, to nomosxedio gia thn anabaqmish kai anadiarqrwsh ths naytikhs ekpaideyshs. To nomosxedio anabaqmizei -kai ayto einai epishs ena qesmiko aithma to opoio bohqa kai ton klado kai bohqa synolika toys neoys Ellhnes na mpoyn ston klado- tis Akadhmies Emporikoy Naytikoy kai ston katalhktiko baqmo, oi ploiarxoi kai oi mhxanikoi A@ Tajews qa katexoyn diplwma isotimo twn Anwtatwn Ekpaideytikwn Idrymatwn. Ryqmish poy logika qa prepei na ikanopoiei to naytergatiko kosmo ths xwras.

Yphrxe, loipon, mia shmantikh prospaqeia apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei -kai proxwrhse- na ikanopoihsei -kai ikanopoihse- ta qesmika aithmata twn ergazomenwn ston klado. Ta dyo aithmata, ta opoia epanalambanw: 1) Katarghshs ths forologias kai 2) neas ayjhshs kata 25% entos 12 mhnwn toy efapaj, einai aithmata gia ta opoia h kybernhsh zhthse apo toys naytikoys na stamathsoyn thn apergia kai na syzhthsoyn kai pali. Kai aytoi arnhqhkan.

KYRITSHS: Gia toys logoys ygeias sas rwthsa. Poioi einai oi logoi ygeias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa synolika gia to qema. Oi logoi oi opoioi anaferontai, einai syntagmatika katoxyrwmenoi. Einai mia seira logwn. Ofeiloyme oloi na sebastoyme toys Ellhnes polites. Apo th stigmh poy aytos o sebasmos ejeleipe pros toys Ellhnes polites, h kybernhsh ofeile na parei mia apofash. Kai ayth thn apofash phre.

BLAXOS: Egw qelw na qesw ena qema hqikhs tajews kai politikhs ajiopistias. Epanalambanete se kaqe eykairia oti sebeste th Dikaiosynh kai tis apofaseis ths. Xqes h Dikaiosynh eipe oti einai nomimh h apergia, liges wres argotera katarghsate thn idia thn apofash ths Dikaiosynhs. Telika yparxei diproswph taktikh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. Allo komma einai ekeino to opoio espeyse na bgalei anakoinwsh, kathgorwntas thn kybernhsh oti parenebh sth Dikaiosynh gia na xarakthrisei ws paranomh thn apergia. Allo komma einai ekeino to opoio ``mazece'' ayth thn anakoinwsh, dioti eixe speysei na epiteqei sthn kybernhsh, kanontas bebaiws ena kraygaleo laqos.

KAKALHS: Eseis, omws, eixate diadwsei oti htan paranomh kai kataxrhstikh h apergia. Den mporeite na lete anypostata pragmata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati qigeste; Ekproswpeite kapoio komma;

KAKALHS: Opws ekproswpeite kai eseis. Na milate eyqews.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai. Kat` arxas, prepei na afhsete na apanthsw sto synadelfo sas. Sas parakalw poly, panta eyqews milw, panta anoikta milw. Kanete erwthseis kai pairnete apanthseis.

KAKALHS: Kai to apodeijate apo xqes oti den milate. Den exete kamia ypolhch.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw poly na parete pisw ayto poy eipate kai to opoio apotelei ybrh gia mena.

KAKALHS: To metatrepw se politikh afereggyothta kai anajiopistia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw poly na parete pisw ayto poy eipate kai to opoio apotelei ybrh gia mena.

KAKALHS: To arxiko, eipa oti to pairnw pisw, alla menei o politikos xarakthrismos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete kanei laqos. Nomizete oti eiste edw gia na kanete proswpika sxolia enantion emoy. Eiste edw gia na kanete erwthseis. Lypamai eilikrinws.

KAKALHS: Sxolia kanete kai eseis, omws (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanw sxolia ws politiko proswpo. Exete th dynatothta na kanete sxolia sthn efhmerida sas. Oydeis sas to apagoreyse, oydeis sas sterhse ayto to dikaiwma. Edw eiste gia na kanete erwthseis. Ean qelete na kanete erwthseis, eimai sth diaqesh sas na apanthsw. Exw pei polles fores oti eimai apenanti sas -sas ikanopoioyn h oxi oi apanthseis- kai apantw.

BLAXOS: H erwthsh einai mia. Pws th mia hmera lete oti sebeste th Dikaiosynh kai thn allh hmera, enw bgainei h apofash ths Dikaiosynhs oti einai nomimh h apergia, eseis me politikh epistrateysh katargeite th logikh ths dikastikhs apofashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa kai prohgoymenws, loipon, oti allos einai ekeinos poy espeyse na kathgorhsei thn kybernhsh oti den sebetai th Dikaiosynh. Apodeixqhke peritrana oti h kybernhsh sebetai th Dikaiosynh. H Dikaiosynh ejedwse thn apofash ths. H kybernhsh ofeilei -kai ayto einai poy perigrafetai sthn apofash poy ejedoqh xqes to brady- na apokatasthsei zhmies kai anataraxes, eite sthn oikonomia, eite sthn koinwnia, oi opoies dhmioyrghqhkan apo thn paratetamenh ayth apergia. To dikaiwma sthn apergia einai eleyqero. To exei o kaqe ergazomenos. Apo thn allh pleyra, h kybernhsh, me nomimo kai syntagmatiko pantote tropo kineitai -kai ayto den mporei na to amfisbhthsei kaneis- etsi wste na diasfalisei ta dikaiwmata olwn twn Ellhnwn politwn. Ayto, loipon, to opoio kaname, to kaname epeidh eixe proklhqei sobarh oikonomikh kai koinwnikh diataraxh sthn koinwnikh kai oikonomikh zwh toy kratoys. Kai to kaname, prospaqwntas na antapokriqoyme sthn anagkh diasfalishs ths ygeias twn katoikwn twn nhsiwn poy briskontai se apomonwsh.

BLAXOS: Katargeite th Dikaiosynh, dhladh; Ayto mas lete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H Dikaiosynh askei to diko ths rolo, o opoios einai apolytws sebastos. O rolos ths ektelestikhs ejoysias einai allos kai prepei na ginetai kai aytos sebastos, efoson kineitai sta syntagmatika plaisia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h kybernhsh pisteyei oti pisw apo tis apergiakes kinhtopoihseis yparxei kapoio politiko stigma; Yparxoyn kapoia kommata politika poy tis ypokinoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa kai xqes oti o arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs htan ekeinos poy sth Boylh, kapoia stigmh, milhse me tetoio tropo ws na hqele na ypokinhsei sto mellon apergies kai anataraxes. H apergia einai iero dikaiwma twn ergazomenwn. Shmera, prin apo ligh wra, sth Boylh, o koinoboyleytikos ekproswpos toy PASOK k. Kastanidhs, katalhgontas mia parembash toy, eipe metajy allwn: ``Fobamai oti poly grhgora qa qerisete qyelles. Einai qema wrwn''. Den gnwrizw ti einai ekeino to opoio gnwrizei o k. Kastanidhs oti qa ginei entos twn epomenwn wrwn. Ofeilei, omws, na dwsei mia ejhghsh. Ti paei na pei, apeyqynomenos se ypoyrgo ths kybernhshs, ``qa qerisete qyelles kai einai qema wrwn''; Ti eidoys problech einai; Exei mantikes ikanothtes o k. Kastanidhs h gnwrizei kati poy den gnwrizoyme oloi oi ypoloipoi; Ofeilei, loipon, na apanthsei.

KAKALHS: Eipate oti me thn apergia eixan dhmioyrghqei koinwnika problhmata kai oikonomikh diataraxh. Ayto symbainei me kaqe apergia. Ayto ti shmainei; Oti h kybernhsh qa katarghsei to dikaiwma sthn apergia; Ayto einai mia epikindynh kai ejoxws antidhmokratikhs antilhch. Allo ean sta logia sebeste to dikaiwma sthn apergia, sthn prajh to katargeite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den katargoyme kanena dikaiwma sthn apergia. Makria apo emas. Den jerw ean qelete na apeyqynqeite se alla kommata, se alles nootropies, se alles ideologies. Alla, h ideologia ths paratajhs, thn opoia exw thn timh na ekproswpw, oydemia sxesh exei me aytes tis nootropies kai tis praktikes, poy akoloyqhsan kai akoloyqoyn alla kommata, alles kybernhseis, edw h sto ejwteriko. Se kaqe periptwsh, h kybernhsh einai ypoxrewmenh na frontisei gia ola osa proanefera. Yphrxe mia apergia pollwn hmerwn. Egine h kalyterh dynath protash pros toys ergazomenoys na proselqoyn se dialogo gia ta dyo enapomeinanta aithmata, ta opoia krinontai apo toys Ellhnes polites. O Ellhnas poliths prepei na gnwrizei oti o idios plhrwnei 15%, 20% ,30% kai 40% foro sto kratos kai aytos poy apergei shmera kai kleinei ta limania -kai to kanei epi seira hmerwn- plhrwnei 3% foro sto kratos kai zhta na mhdenistei aytos o foros. O Ellhnas poliths prepei na gnwrizei oti o ergazomenos naytikos zhthse perysi ayjhsh kata 25% toy efapaj, thn pairnei kai janazhta nea ayjhsh toy efapaj kata 25%, fetos. Kai enw exei apo thn pleyra toy ypoyrgoy Emporikhs Naytilias th diabebaiwsh ``stamathste thn apergia kai elate na syzhthsoyme tis epomenes hmeres na doyme ean ayto mporei na ginei sto plaisio ths dynatothtas ths oikonomias stadiaka'', apanta me telesigrafo oti ``oxi, emeis qa synexisoyme thn apergia kai qeloyme ta panta edw kai twra''. Omws, ta panta krinontai kai krinontai sto plaisio ths logikhs. Ti qa pei o Ellhnas poy plhrwnei 40% eforia, otan akoysei oti kapoios ergazomenos dipla toy plhrwnei 3% kai qelei na mhdenistei;

KAKALHS: Wraies oi entypwseis, alla sthn prajh egine to ejhs: Oi apergoi zhtoysan ena pragma, na aposyrqei to nomosxedio gia th naytikh ekpaideysh, to opoio mas to paroysiasate, les kai to epiqymoysan, epeidh anabaqmizei toys ajiwmatikoys k.t.l. Sthn pragmatikothta meiwnei tis syntajeis 22% kai plhttei ergasiaka toys dikaiwmata. Ayto giati den to kanate; O monos oros gia na mhn ginei apergia htan na aposyrqei to nomosxedio. Giati den aposyrate to nomosxedio kai na ginei dialogos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas parakalesw na diabasete to arqro 73 par. 2 toy Syntagmatos. Qa diapistwsete, loipon, oti to arqro 28 toy nomosxedioy, sto opoio anaferqhkate, den qigei kekthmena syntajiodotika dikaiwmata twn naytergatwn, ta opoia katoxyrwnontai apo to proanaferqen arqro 73 par. 2 toy Syntagmatos. Yparxei, loipon, mia paraplanhtikh prospaqeia apo orismenoys, den lew apo esas. Allwste, se synergasia me to nomiko symboylo ths PNO, to sygkekrimeno ayto qema sto opoio anaferqhkate, diasafhnisthke plhrws sth Boylh twn Ellhnwn. Kai oi dieykriniseis poy doqhkan eginan katanohtes apo toys ekproswpoys twn kommatwn toy ellhnikoy Koinoboylioy.

SARANTAKOS: Qa hqela na moy dieykrinisete, poios phre thn apofash gia thn politikh epistrateysh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh.

SARANTAKOS: H eishghsh htan toy k. Kefalogiannh pros ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H apofash einai ths kybernhshs.

SARANTAKOS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti ejeleipe o sebasmos pros toys Ellhnes polites, gi` ayto anagkasthke h kybernhsh na parembei. Qa hqela na moy peite sygkekrimena, poios den sebetai toys Ellhnes polites kai anagkasthke h kybernhsh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei, milwntas gia th diadikasia ayth apo thn hmera poy jekinhse, antlwntas kai ejantlwntas to iero toys dikaiwma sthn apergia oi ergazomenoi ews to pws katelhje ayth h ypoqesh.

SARANTAKOS: Oi Ellhnes naytikoi den sebontai toys Ellhnes polites.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn kai alloi Ellhnes polites, toys opoioys h kybernhsh ofeilei na skeftei. Kai ayto ekane.

SARANTAKOS: Oi Ellhnes naytikoi den sebontai toys Ellhnes polites; Ekei ejeleipe o sebasmos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean qelete na bgalete kapoia symperasmata, bgalte ta. Allwste, den qa einai h prwth fora.

SARANTAKOS: Oxi. Rwtw gia na mhn bgalw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa sas pw perissotera apo ayta poy sas exw pei.

SARANTAKOS: Ma, gia na mhn bgalw sas rwtw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Bgalte. Kai poy me rwtate, qa bgalete, etsi ki alliws. Bgalte, loipon, apo twra.

SARANTAKOS: Oxi. Mhn to lete etsi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pws, na mhn to lew! Oloi diabazoyme kai oloi gnwrizoyme anagnwsh.

SARANTAKOS: Exete kapoia kritikh sta dhmosieymata poy kanw; Ean exete kati, thn akoyw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta diabazw eyprosdekta kai me poly xara.

BLAXOS: Eseis, ws dhmosiografos, den kanete ta idia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw dwsei to logo se synadelfo sas.

MPOTSARAKOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh exei apofasisei poia mesa qa xrhsimopoihsei gia na efarmostei h apofash gia thn politikh epistrateysh kai an yparxei kapoia anhsyxia oti mporei na proklhqoyn anatarajeis sthn prospaqeia gia thn efarmogh ths apofashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa xrhsimopoihsei o,ti mesa problepei o nomos. Tipote perissotero.

MPOTSARAKOS: Poia einai ayta ta mesa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw na diabasete to nomo.

MPALHS: Pro kairoy, o k. Meimarakhs, ws grammateas, eixe pei oti otan dhmioyrgoyntai synqhkes koinwnikhs sygkroyshs, mia kybernhsh prosfeygei sto lao. Qelw, kat` arxas, na sas rwthsw, ean ektimate pws tetoies synqhkes dhmioyrgoyntai twra me to mparaz twn apergiakwn kinhtopoihsewn poy ginontai. Kai deyteron, ean h kybernhsh einai ikanopoihmenh apo toys xeirismoys poy exei kanei o k. Manwlhs Kefalogiannhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei kai sta dyo erwthmata me to diko moy tropo.

GALIATSATOS: Sxetika me ta qesmika aithmata twn naytergatwn gia ta opoia mas eipate oti exoyn ikanopoihqei plhrws. Exei desmeyqei, dhladh, h kybernhsh oti qa diathrhqei to 10mhno; To eggyatai ayto stoys naytergates;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh einai ayth poy efere to 10mhno, otan h prohgoymenh kybernhsh den to eixe ferei. Otan, loipon, exei ferei to 10mhno ws ypoxrewsh dromologhshs ploiwn, etsi wste na yparxei doyleia gia 10 mhnes -ayth h kybernhsh to ekane- den antilambanomai poy anhsyxoyn oi ergazomenoi. Den yphrxe prohgoymenws. Htan aithma toys, to opoio ikanopoihse h kybernhsh.

GALIATSATOS: Yparxei qema kai me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh se ayto, omws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew, loipon, ti ekane h kybernhsh. Apo ekei kai pera, ean pame se mia eikotologia gia to mellon, den mporw na sas apanthsw eikotologwntas. Lew, omws, oti ikanopoihqhke mia seira qesmikwn aithmatwn. Kai lew, shmera, stoys Ellhnes polites poia einai ta aithmata poy den exoyn ikanopoihqei, gia na mporoyn na krinoyn oloi me pragmatika gegonota.

MANH: Otan to dikasthrio bgazei paranomh kai kataxrhstikh mia apergia, tote akoloyqoyntai oi diadikasies poy problepei o nomos kai stamata h apergia. Otan to dikasthrio bgazei nomimh thn apergia, tote h kybernhsh epikaleitai ayta poy prin epikalesthkate ki eseis kai kanei politikh epistrateysh. Ta periqwria poy exoyn oi ergazomenoi na synexisoyn mia apergia yparxoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O,ti problepei o nomos kai to Syntagma mas. Fantazomai oti me to ``otan'' milate gia th sygkekrimenh periptwsh, giati to ferate etsi, ws na ginetai synexws ayto to pragma. Den ginetai synexws.

MANH: Mhpws anoigei dromoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn eidikes synqhkes poy diamorfwqhkan se ena poly megalo kommati ths xwras mas, th nhsiwtikh Ellada H kybernhsh kai h kaqe kybernhsh ofeilei na sebastei toys polites poy menoyn sta nhsia.

MANH: Tote giati... (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eite einai paragwgoi kai katastrefetai h paragwgh toys, eite einai asqeneis kai xreiazontai metafora h farmaka, eite einai anqrwpoi poy exoyn anagkh, eite einai h ejyphrethsh twn aplwn kaqhmerinwn anagkwn, h opoia me thn parateinomenh apergia kai me thn adiallajia, poy epedeijan oi ergazomenoi, oxi aplws dhmioyrghse problhmata, alla efere pleon sta oria ths dysleitoyrgias ena megalo kommati ths xwras. Ofeilei, loipon, h ypeyqynh kybernhsh na labei tis apofaseis ths.

MANH: Ayta giati den ta synypologise to dikasthrio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epi aytwn twn apofasewn qa kriqei, opws krinetai o kaqenas. Etsi krinetai h kybernhsh, etsi krinontai oloi oi ypoloipoi. Qa kriqei, loipon.

BLAXOS: Lete oti h kybernhsh enhrghse swsta gia to koino symferon. Mhpws ayto prepei na diastayrwqei kai me to koino aisqhma, dhladh, mhpws qa eprepe na ginoyn prowres ekloges gia na doyme ean egkrinei o laos tis epiloges ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy kanete protash;

BLAXOS: Ean skefteste.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

KAKALHS: Qa epanelqw se ayta poy eipa prohgoymenws, peri ajiopistias. Xqes eipate oti h kybernhsh einai pagiws yper toy dialogoy kai ths synaineshs. Ligo nwritera o k. Alogoskoyfhs eixe pei oti se ayth th fash oydeis amfisbhtei to dikaiwma twn ergazomenwn na kinhtopoioyntai kai na diekdikoyn. Jafnika, mesa se liges wres, ejantlhqhkan ta periqwria toy dialogoy kai ``balate sto gyco'' to dikaiwma twn ergazomenwn gia apergia. Ti synebh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi kai se gyco! Sas epanalambanw oti eklhqhsan oi ergazomenoi, syzhthsan me ton ypoyrgo Emporikhs Naytilias, toys ekane sygkekrimenes protaseis kai arnhqhkan, fernontas oysiastika se adiejodo thn opoiadhpote diadikasia dialogoy. Otan proteinei h kybernhsh dialogo kai leei elate na syzhthsoyme ta dyo enapomeinanta aithmata -dioti apo ayta poy exete ypobalei exei ikanopoihqei to 90% kai yparxoyn dyo enapomeinanta- to ena to gnwrizete oti ikanopoihqhke persi kata ena poly megalo pososto, h kybernhsh sthn prajh exei deijei thn kalh ths diaqesh. Otan, prin apo dwdeka mhnes, ayth h kybernhsh ayjhse to efapaj kata 25%, ikanopoihse ena aithma etwn, to opoio den eixe ikanopoihsei h prohgoymenh kybernhsh. Ara, exei dwsei deigma grafhs. Leei stoys ergazomenoys, kyrioi egw persi ikanopoihsa ena shmantiko aithma sas. Ayjhsa -leei h kybernhsh- kata 25% to efapaj. Fetos moy zhtate nea ayjhsh kata 25%. Elate na to janasyzhthsoyme, na doyme sto plaisio twn oikonomikwn problhmatwn poy antimetwpizei o topos, pote kai me poio tropo mporw na to ikanopoihsw. Kai otan h apanthsh einai ``oxi, ola edw kai twra'', yparxei pleon mia adiallakth stash. Den gnwrizw poia symperasmata bgazei o opoiosdhpote edw. Pisteyw oti o Ellhnas poliths qa bgalei ta dika toy symperasmata gia oles tis pleyres.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Qa hqela na moy ejhghsete pws mporei na symbadizei o dialogos ton opoio epikaleiste gia thn epilysh twn zhthmatwn me tetoies antisyntagmatikes meqodoys, opws h politikh epistrateysh sthn opoia odhghqhkate. Toso syntomos htan o dialogos, gia na probeite se tetoies energeies;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa amfisbhthsw synolikws th nomikh sas eparkeia, alla en prokeimenw qa to kanw giati den einai kaqoloy antisyntagmatikh h meqodos.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Den anhkei sto syntagmatiko Dikaio. Anhkei nomizw sto stratiwtiko Dikaio kai parola ayta, nomizw oti exei katarghqei h@...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Hmoyn arketa eygenhs, legontas oti den qa amfisbhthsw synolikws th nomikh sas eparkeia. Den eimai edw gia na krinw, oyte eimai kaqhghths ths Nomikhs. Qelw na sas pw oti h kybernhsh kinhqhke apolytws sto plaisio toy Syntagmatos. Kati poy -opws gnwrizete- exei kriqei sto parelqon, molis prosfata to 2002, me mia antistoixh apofash ths kybernhshs Shmith apo to Symboylio Epikrateias. Exei kriqei, dhladh, h syntagmatikothta ths sygkekrimenhs kinhshs kai to Symboylio Epikrateias, to kalokairi toy 2002, gnwmateyse yper ths syntagmatikothtas ayths ths kinhshs.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla xqes mas legate (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me rwthsate xqes kai sas eipa, oti apanthsa kai proxqes.

KYRITSHS: Mas eipate oti ayta ta metra lambanontai gia thn prostasia twn katoikwn twn nhsiwn. Qelw na sas ypenqymisw oti molis prosfata to eisithrio gia na metabei kapoios apo thn akritikh Xio sta akoma akritikotera Cara phge apo 70 lepta, sta 11 eyrw. Ekei den eida h kybernhsh na sygkinhqei kai na asxolhqei tote me ayto to qema. Erxetai twra, meta apo 5 hmeres apergia kai bgazei to symperasma oti yparxoyn megala koinwnika problhmata, otan dekaeptaplasiazetai to kostos toy eisithrioy gia toys akrites, den yparxoyn megala problhmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora ayth thn erwthsh sas, qa zhthsw apo to ypoyrgeio Emporikhs Naytilias na moy dwsei ton akribh katalogo, prokeimenoy na exete emperistatwmenh apanthsh se ena eidiko qema, giati eimai apolytws bebaios oti exete parei ena paradeigma, to opoio ean isxyei -opws moy to lete- einai monadiko kai den prepei na exei tairi.

KYRITSHS: Epeidh eida oti parakoloyqhsate th syzhthsh sth Boylh, den jerw ean prosejate oti o proedreywn k. Soyrlas, ekleise to mikrofwno ston Proedro toy SYNASPISMOY k. Alabano, thn wra poy miloyse. Hqela na sas rwthsw, ean qewreite oti einai dhmokratikh ayth h energeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanw krish epi twn legomenwn politikwn frasewn, logwn, kritikwn, krisewn k.o.k.

KYRITSHS: Sto na fimwnetai enas politikos arxhgos den kanete krish;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H Boylh leitoyrgei me enan sygkekrimeno Kanonismo. Ean moy zhtate na krinw ton Kanonismo, den qa to kanw. Ean moy zhtate na krinw to Proedreio ths Boylhs kai pali den qa to kanw.

KYRITSHS: O Kanonismos leei na kleinoyme ta mikrofwna stoys politikoys arxhgoys; Eseis qa moy to kleinate to mikrofwno;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite. Yparxei enas kanonismos. Edw einai eqimikw dikaiw kai blepw oti me poly prospaqeia, katafernw h oxi, polles fores, na thrhsw ayth th diadikasia, h opoia sebetai, prwta ap` ola, toys ypoloipoys synadelfoys apo ton, epanalambanomenws, erwtwnta. Diadikasia, epi toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs, na teqei edw kai na syzhthqei, den exei kanena nohma. Den krinw ayth th diadikasia. Einai Kanonismos ths Boylhs kai eimai bebaios oti o proedreywn ths Boylhs ton thrhse.

GALIATSATOS: Shmera h PNO dhlwse oti qa synexisei thn apergia sta limania toy Peiraia kai ths Patras, efoson exete khryjei politikh epistrateysh, eisaste diateqeimenoi na xrhsimopoihsete katastolh gia na diakocete thn apergia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw oti qa ginei o,ti problepei o nomos. Tipota pera apo to nomo. Oyte panw apo to nomo, oyte katw. Akribws o,ti problepei o nomos.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Yparxoyn nhsia poy menoyn apokommena akoma kai gia meres h ebdomades h na yparxei ena dromologio mia fora stis 10 meres. Ekei giati h kybernhsh den ejanagkazei toys efoplistes na pragmatopoioyn syxnotera dromologia; Ekei den yparxoyn anqrwpistikoi logoi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw ean agnoeite oti yparxei agonh grammh, yparxoyn epidothseis gia thn agonh grammh, yparxei tropos me ton opoio didontai oi adeies skopimothtas. Ean to agnoeite, isws prepei na enhmerwqeite apo to ypoyrgeio Emporikhs Naytilias. Egw den mporw na sas kanw peraiterw enhmerwsh apo aythn poy hdh sas eipa.

BLAXOS: H apofash Shmith toy 2002 gia thn politikh epistrateysh eixe basistei sto basiliko diatagma 17 toy 1974, poy isxye kai to opoio sth synexeia, me to P.D. 506 katarghqhke. Eseis basei poioy diatagmatos kanate thn politikh epistrateysh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pote ejedoqh to P.D. 371 poy kathrghse to P.D. 506;

BLAXOS: To 2002.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poion mhna;

BLAXOS: Den gnwrizw hmeromhnia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prepei na einai ton Maio toy 2002. Na sas pw , loipon, oti h prajh epistrateyshs apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh egine ton Ioynio toy 2002 kai kriqhke stis 14 Aygoystoy apo to StE. Dhladh, metagenesterh prajh, kriqhke metagenestera sto StE kai kriqhke syntagmatikh. Kata synepeia, den isxyei o isxyrismos poy akoysa na periferoyn kai se orismena MME, kapoioi epaiontes shmera to prwi.

BLAXOS: Basei to basilikoy diatagmatos egine h epistrateysh, ayto mas lete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isws den me akoysate. Epanalambanw, oti h syntagmatikothta ths prajews exei hdh kriqei apo to StE se metagenesterh diatajh apo th stigmh poy epikaleiste to P.D. poy eixe allajei toys tropoys me toys opoioys ginetai h politikh epistrateysh. Ara, loipon, h krish toy StE einai h teleytaia.

BLAXOS: H arxh, omws, einai to basiliko diatagma 17 toy 1974.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa epektaqw perissotero gia to poio einai to nomoqetiko diatagma, poy isxyei. Ekeino poy lew einai: H syntagmatikh nomimothta thrhqhke, exei kriqei prosfatws h syntagmatikh nomimothta ths prajews apo to StE, to 2002. Ean qelete na dhmioyrgeite entypwseis, to antilambanomai. Yparxoyn nomoi. Yparxei synexeia kratoys kai synexeia nomwn.

BLAXOS: Giati mas to lete synexeia ayto; Erwthseis kanoyme, aploi dhmosiografoi eimaste, oyte na dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis mporoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eseis, gia paradeigma, qa parete syntajh, ws dhmosiografos me syntajiodotikoys nomoys, oi opoioi einai palaioterwn dekaetiwn.

BLAXOS: Mh mas lete kaqe fora poy kanoyme erwthseis oti qeloyme na dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis. Einai ybristiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den shmainei oti den qa parete syntajh h oti den prepei na parete syntajh epeidh o nomos den einai toy 2002-2004-2005. Kai toy 1950 h 1960 na einai o nomos, syntajh qa parete. Ean ennoeite oti den isxyoyn kapoioi nomoi epeidh einai se kapoia dekaetia kai kapoioi alloi se allh dekaetia, isxyoyn, peite to. Alla, gnwrizete oti se ola ta krath dieqnws ean peite ayth thn apoch, qa sas poyn oti einai mia prwtofanhs nomikh proseggish.

BLAXOS: Symfwnoyme se ayto, alla den ginetai kaqe fora poy qa kanoyme erwthsh, kaqe fora poy den sas aresei mia erwthsh, mas lete oti prospaqoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis. Den prospaqoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme kaqoloy entypwseis. Prospaqoyme na doyme ti krybetai pisw apo tis kinhseis kai tis skeceis ths kybernhshs. Aploi dhmosiografoi eimaste, oyte dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis prospaqoyme, oyte qeloyme na dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis. Nomizw oti san prwhn dhmosiografos eprepe ki eseis na mas sebeste ligo gi` ayto poy kanoyme. Einai gia mena ybristiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sebomai panta ton aplo dhmosiografo.

MPOTSARAKOS: Eipate oti h kybernhsh, o ypoyrgos Emporikhs Naytilias eipe stoys naytergates oti qa syzhthsei ta dyo oikonomika aithmata. Ap` oti katalaba gia to qema ths forologias den yphrxe kapoia proqesh gia peraiterw meiwsh, oyte kan gia syzhthsh. Katalaba kala;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa jekaqara oti emeis ws antipoliteysh eixame qewrhsei qetikh thn meiwsh poy eixe ginei me thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, legontas oti einai pros thn swsth kateyqynsh. Einai allo h meiwsh se ena logiko pososto kai allo o mhdenismos. Antilambaneste oti ton mhdenismo den qa ton dexqei kaneis Ellhnas poliths. Dioti, eseis, ean plhrwnete eforia 40% qa erqete thn allh mera sthn politikh enhmerwsh kai qa moy peite giati egw plhrwnw 40% eforia kai yparxoyn alloi Ellhnes polites ergazomenoi poy den plhrwnoyn kaqoloy eforia. Jerete oti to aforologhto einai apo ena orio kai katw, apo sygkekrimeno poso kai katw. Den einai genikws osa esoda exw, qa exw kai aforologhto.

MPOTSARAKOS: Qelw na moy peite poia sygkekrimena htan h antiprotash toy ypoyrgeioy Emporikhs Naytilias gia to qema toy efapaj, epeidh eipate oti eipe h kybernhsh stoys naytergates na to syzhthsoyme. Zhthsan, loipon, se 12 mhnes +25% syn. Eseis proteinate kati allo; Dhladh, se megalytero xroniko diasthma, mikroterh ayjhsh. Yphrje kapoia sygkekrimenh antiprotash h den apanthsate tipota sto sygkekrimeno aithma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Emeis eipame oti antilambanomaste pws einai xamhlo to efapaj twn ergazomenwn sthn aktoploia, gi` ayto kai sthn prajh apodeijame prin apo ligoys mhnes oti dexomaste to aithma ws dikaio, ikanopoiwntas ena megalo meros aytoy toy aithmatos kai apokaqistwntas ta pragmata oso kalytera ginotan sth sygkekrimenh xronikh stigmh. Kaqenas poy mas akoyei ayth thn wra antilambanetai oti h ayjhsh kata 25% einai mia megalh posostiaia ayjhsh. Epanalambanw oti einai akomh xamhla ta posa toy efapaj poy pairnei o ergaths sth naytilia, sthn aktoploia. Janaqymizw, omws, oti to efapaj den einai xrhma poy antleitai apo ton proypologismo. Den to plhrwnoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites. To plhrwnei kaqe ergazomenos xwrista sto Tameio toy, gia na exei lambanein otan bgei sth syntajh. Egine, loipon, mia prospaqeia perysi kai para to oti oles oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis to eixan arnhqei, ayth h kybernhsh ayjhse kata 25% to efapaj twn naytergatwn. Fetos, 12 mhnes meta, ypoblhqhke neo aithma: ``Qeloyme kai allh ayjhsh kata 25%''. Kai h kybernhsh apanthse oti syzhtame nea ayjhsh, anagnwrizontas to xamhlo antikeimenika poso, alla na doyme ena tropo kai to xrono poy qa einai dynato ayto na ginei, gia na mhn epibarynqei poly perissotero o proypologismos apo o,ti dynatothtes exei.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na mas peite poso epibarynetai o proypologismos apo thn ayjhsh toy 25% toy efapaj;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw.

KAKALHS: Einai eyteles to poso.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw. Poso einai to eyteles;

KAKALHS: Pente ekatommyria eyrw, an den kanw laqos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean einai 5.000.000 eyrw. En pash periptwsei, antilambaneste oti yparxoyn kathgories ergazomenwn, yparxei mia seira aithmatwn, ta opoia ikanopoioyntai kai ikanopoioyntai ola sto plaisio twn oikonomikwn dynatothtwn poy exoyme. Gia paradeigma, sth Genikh Grammateia Epikoinwnias kai th Genikh Grammateia Enhmerwshs -to exw epanalabei polles fores- yphrxe ena aithma epidomatos. Ikanopoihqhke apo ayth thn kybernhsh, enw epi seira etwn ypoballeto sthn prohgoymenh kybernhsh. Ean to dei kaneis memonwmena qa pei, nai einai ena poso, den einai toso spoydaio gia ton proypologismo. Otan, omws, sygkentrwneis 1,2,3,5,10,20 tetoioy eidoys aithmata, antilambanetai kapoios oti aytos poy diaxeirizetai ta oikonomika toy kratoys, ofeilei na ta diaxeirizetai me synesh. Den eipame, emeis, loipon, ston Ellhna naytergath, oxi den qa pareis ayjhsh sto efapaj. Antiqetws, toy eipame prin apo 12 mhnes: Na h ayjhsh. Kai phre 25% ayjhsh. Kai eipame kai twra, mesa se 12 mhnes, nai, na janasyzhthsoyme thn ayjhsh soy, anagnwrizontas oti einai xamhlh h pragmatikh ajia toy efapaj, me thn parametro poy eipa prohgoymenws gia to pws bgainei to efapaj gia ton kaqe ergazomeno. Alla, na to syzhthsoyme se baqos kapoioy xronoy kai elate na kanoyme dialogo apo thn arxh gi` ayto to qema. Kai h apanthsh htan: Oxi, emeis qeloyme twra thn ikanopoihsh toy aithmatos mas.

KAKALHS: To lew, giati pragmatika einai sxetiko to poso kai ta megeqh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To exw pei monos moy, tesseris-pente fores. Den paw na paraplanhsw, legontas oti h posostiaia ayjhsh toy 25% einai megalh. Exw milhsei me eilikrineia, anaferomenos sto poso kai oti to poso antikeimenika den einai megalo. Bebaiws, epanalambanw oti kaqe ergazomenos ftiaxnei to efapaj toy -ayto poy leme sakoyli gia th syntajh toy efapaj- apo tis dikes toy eisfores. Edw erxetai to kratos kai kanei mia parekbash kai dinei mia ayjhsh 25% kai leei, nai diatiqemai na janadwsw kai allh ayjhsh, alla na to kanoyme se ena xroniko orizonta tetoio poy qa mporw kai egw na to kanw.

KAKALHS: Parola ayta, yparxoyn oi antoxes toy proypologismoy gia na dinoyme foroapallages stis trapezes, poy ta kerdh toys trexoyn me 107%, opws anakoinwse xqes h PEIRAIWS h prohgoymenws oi alles trapezes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, yparxei mia prospaqeia apo ayth thn kybernhsh na meiwsei genikotera toys foroys. Kai h prospaqeia ayth exei ginei kai se epixeirhseis kai se fysika proswpa. Ginetai prospaqeia, ejorqologismoy twn oikonomikwn se ena poly dyskolo oikonomiko periballon to opoio paralabame. O k. Alogoskoyfhs qa dwsei se ligh wra mia akomh synenteyjh Typoy, prokeimenoy na milhsei gia ta oikonomika kai poy briskontai ayta shmera. An qelete, mporeite na pate na parakoloyqhsete th synenteyjh toy.

MANH: O k. Alogoskoyfhs, omws, xqes, sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph eipe oti gia ta oikonomika aithmata enhmerwqhke proxqes, otan o k. Kefalogiannhs profanws antilhfqhke to megeqos ths ypoqeshs kai ton enhmerwse. An ayto einai etsi, pws prokyptei oti oi dyo synarmodioi ypoyrgoi synergasthkan, ejantlhsan ola ta periqwria kai eipan, ayto kanoyme, ayto den kanoyme, ayto to proxwroyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den sas metaferqhke swsta h syzhthsh poy fantazomai oti sas metaferqhke@

MANH: Den isxyei, loipon, oti enhmerwqhke proxqes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: Epeidh h Kybernhtikh Epitroph synedriazei panta kekleismenwn twn qyrwn, den sas metaferqhke swsta h syzhthsh poy egine.

MANH: Reportaz epikaloymai, den hmoyn mesa.

BLAXOS: Ara, ti eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs, mporeite na mas metaferete ti eipe sto qema ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O,ti eixa na sas pw, sas to eipa. Tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Giati o Prwqypoyrgos, proxqes, milhse gia syntonismo twn ypoyrgwn; Ara, yparxei aytos o syntonismos telika h oxi;

POYLIDOY: O k. Giannos Papantwnioy, shmera, se synenteyjh Typoy anakoinwse oti eixe prosfygei sth gallikh Dikaiosynh, epeidh se dhmosieyma toy gallikoy Typoy efereto emplekomenos sto skandalo ``Qalhs'' kai oti h gallikh Dikaiosynh ejedwse shmera apofash, opoy diapistwnei oti ta dhmosieymata htan atekmhriwta, kakopista kai dysfhmistika. Epidikase apozhmiwsh se baros toy kai apokatastash ths alhqeias. Epeidh exoyme polles fores anaferqei se ayta ta dhmosieymata toy gallikoy Typoy se ayth thn aiqoysa, qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean exete na kanete kapoio sxolio ep` aytoy h aisqaneste thn anagkh na apokatasthsete kai eseis ayta poy exete pei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas parakalesw na diabasete ayta poy exw pei. Einai prin apo poly kairo bebaiws, alla ean den me apata h mnhmh moy eixa kanei mia krish oti exoyme ena qema a@ shmasias se efhmerida twn Patrwn poy egine prwto qema pantoy kai egine polys ntoros kai exoyme kai ena qema b@ prwtoselido se megalh dieqnh efhmerida kai den egine qema sxedon poyqena. Ayth htan h krish poy eixa kanei tote. Se kaqe periptwsh, krish gia th Dikaiosynh, opws gnwrizete, den kanw pote. Ara kai tote den eixa kanei.

BLAXOS: To yioqeteite, omws, me ayto ton tropo. Den to yioqeteite k. Ekproswpe to dhmosieyma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati den diabazete ta keimena ekeinwn twn hmerwn, afoy exei toso endiaferon;

BLAXOS: Den xreiazetai. Ta qymamai poly kala. Exw mnhmh elefanta. Alla, me emmeso tropo to yioqeteite. Den einai etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa, hdh.

BLAXOS: Pantws, den einai kako na zhthsete kai sygnwmh apo ena synadelfos sas. Den einai kako, ean exete kanei laqos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se mena to lete;

BLAXOS: Malista.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kalws.

BLAXOS: Kako einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Giati qewrw oti isws na eimai kai ejairesh kybernhtikoy ekproswpoy poy exei erqei treis fores enwpion sas kai exei zhthsei sygnwmh gia laqh. Qymaste polloys na to exoyn kanei sth qesh moy;

BLAXOS: Oxi. Alla, lew gia mia akomh fora.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa, loipon, poia htan h krish poy eixa kanei tote.

SARANTAKOS: Eipate xqes oti oi syzhthseis gyrw apo to qema twn naytikwn mporei na ginontai ebdomades, mhnes kai den einai to qema opote bgainei sth dhmosiothta. Pote enhmerwqhke o k. Karamanlhs gia thn plhrh diastash toy qematos me toys naytikoys kai ton k. Kefalogiannh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos enhmerwnetai gia ola ta qemata, otan ayta@

SARANTAKOS: En th gennesei toys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan ayta gennwntai h krinetai skopimo apo toys ypoyrgoys oti prepei na fqasoyn sto epipedo toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

SARANTAKOS: Sthn prokeimenh periptwsh pote ekane o k. Kefalogiannhs thn enhmerwsh ston k. Karamanlh; Apo thn arxh, edw kai mhnes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

KAKALHS: Mhpws qymaste poia stash eixe krathsei h Nea Dhmokratia sthn antistoixh epistrateysh poy eixe khryjei h kybernhsh toy PASOK to 2002, kai an eixe kataggeilei tote thn kinhsh ayth; Poia einai h diafora anamesa stis dyo epistrateyseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi teleytaies treis erwthseis, plhn ayths toy k. Sarantakoy, fantazoyn ws test mnhmhs. Den hrqa edw gia na ypoblhqw se test mnhmhs. Kanete ta sxolia sas kai tis kriseis sas. Hrqa enwpion sas gia na analysw thn kybernhtikh politikh, na sas pw poy sthrixthke ayth h sygkekrimenh kybernhtikh apofash, na analysw ta aithmata, na pw tis qeseis ths kybernhshs. Bebaiws ypokeimeno krisews eimaste kai egw kai h kybernhsh kai oloi mas.

BLAXOS: Xqes, sto pio qesmiko meso, poy einai h Boylh, apokalyfqhke to ejhs: Stis 25 Ianoyarioy h Vodafone enhmerwqhke oti yparxei kapoio problhma, frontise na kaqarisei ta thlefwnika kentra apo ta opoia den ginontoysan ypoklopes. Ta dyo thlefwnika kentra, apo ta opoia ginontoysan ypoklopes den ta kaqarise. H kybernhsh enhmerwqhke stis 10 Martioy kai afoy eixe yparjei h aytoktonia toy stelexoys ths Vodafone. Erwthsh: Qa kalyptetai gia poly kairo akomh pisw apo th Dikaiosynh h kybernhsh h qa prepei na kanei kati, gia na yparjei taxyterh aponomh dikaiosynhs sto mega, ayto, qema twn ypoklopwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mallon einai asafhs h erwthsh h an thn katalaba kala, epikindynh. An ennoeite na paremboyme sth Dikaiosynh den qa to kanoyme. Den to kaname pote kai den qa to kanoyme pote. Se kaqe periptwsh omws, moy dinete thn eykairia na pw oti opoia nea stoixeia erxontai sto fws ths dhmosiothtas kai opoia nea stoixeia briskei h Dikaiosynh, einai episfragish ths apofashs ths kybernhshs apo thn prwth stigmh, na odhghsei ayto to qema sth Dikaiosynh. H kybernhsh qa einai h prwth poy qa xarei, otan apokalyfqei olh h alhqeia sth dhmosiothta. Giati allwste, h kybernhsh htan qyma ayths ths aqlias ypoqeshs twn ypoklopwn.

MPOTSARAKOS: Omws, ayto to neo stoixeio oti yphrxan plhrofories apo tis 25 Ianoyarioy, ayto pote to emaqe h kybernhsh; Xqes poy akoysthke sth Boylh h to jerate kai tis prohgoymenes hmeres; To jerate prin apo thn anakoinwsh ths ypoqeshs, to maqate meta; Giati einai poly shmantiko stoixeio ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipame ekeinh thn hmera -kai sth synexeia gia polles hmeres edw- ta gegonota opws ta maqame kai me tis hmeromhnies poy ta maqame. Yparxei hdh apanthsh mesa sto erwthma sas, apo ekeines tis synenteyjeis poy exoyn doqei.

BLAXOS: Eseis dwsate entolh -ennow h kybernhsh- ston k. Korwnia na mhn enhmerwsei thn ADAE, giati einai qema ycisths eqnikhs asfaleias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H monh entolh poy doqhke apo ton Prwqypoyrgo stoys ypoyrgoys htan na kinhqoyn wste h Dikaiosynh na enhmerwqei apolytws, sto anwtato dynato epipedo kai en synexeia na kanei thn ereyna ths. Politikh apofash ths kybernhshs apo thn prwth stigmh -exei anakoinwqei allwste ayto apo thn prwth hmera- htan na doqei h ypoqesh sth dhmosiothta apo thn idia thn kybernhsh otan oloklhrwqei h prokatarktikh ejetash. Oyden allo egine peran aytoy poy sas lew.

BLAXOS: Giati den enhmerwsate thn ADAE tote, thn anejarthth arxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw erwthqei polles fores gia to qema, den qa to janaapanthsw.

BLAXOS: Oxi, einai shmantiko ayto, me to pneyma@

ROYSOPOYLOS: H yperkeimenh arxh poy legetai ektelestikh ejoysia, enhmerwqhke kai apeyqynqhke se mia allh ejoysia, apo toys treis basikoys pylwnes ths Dhmokratias, th Dikaiosynh. To exw janapei, mhn to epanaferete.

BLAXOS: Ara me emmeso tropo epibebaiwnete oti eseis eipate ston k. Korwnia ``mhn peite tipote dioti exoyme meqodeysei ayth th diadikasia''. Ayto mas lete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Apo poy prokyptei ayto; Den katalabainw. Profanws erxeste na bgalete ena ayqaireto symperasma kai meta kanete dyo erwthseis, pairnete alles apanthseis, alla to symperasma paramenei. Oxi, den prokyptei ayto apo thn apanthsh moy.

BLAXOS: Ara, eipe cemata o k. Korwnias, ayto mas lete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw ti eipe, oyte qa asxolhqw egw, me to ti exei pei o kaqe enas emplekomenos sthn ypoqesh ayth. Thn kybernhsh ayto to opoio thn endiaferei, einai na bgei olh h alhqeia sto fws. Kai sas epanalambanw: H kybernhsh qa einai h prwth poy qa xarei na bgei olh h alhqeia sto fws, kaqoson h kybernhsh kai prwtistws o Prwqypoyrgos, htan qyma ayths ths aqlias ypoqeshs twn ypoklopwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Egw, an exei ejantlhqei to qema me thn Vodafone qa paw se ena allo qema.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An qelete na rwthsete, rwthste k. Palaiologe.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qelw na rwthsw gia to qema ths ptwshs toy elikopteroy. Symfwna me kapoio dhmosieyma efhmeridas, o Arxhgos Stratoy otan eftase ston topo toy dystyxhmatos, feretai na eipe paroysia martyrwn, sxoliazontas olh ayth thn istoria ``entajei, ayta symbainoyn, gi` ayto allwste aytoi@'', dhladh oi pilotoi, ``@pairnoyn tosa lefta me to pthtiko epidoma''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala, oti eimai poly epifylaktikos sto na sxoliazw pragmata ta opoia moy metaferontai, me olo to sebasmo sto proswpo sas kai sto proswpo olwn twn synadelfwn sas. Den mporw na sxoliasw kati, to opoio moy metaferete oti grafei kapoia efhmerida pws eipwqhke h dhqen eipwqhke. Qewrw adianohto na exei eipwqei apo ton opoiodhpote mia tetoia anafora.

PALAIOLOGOS: O Arxhgos Stratoy feretai na@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew oti gia mena einai adianohto na exei eipwqei kati tetoio.

MPOTSARAKOS: Pote qa ginei to KYSEA kai oi kriseis twn ajiwmatikwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw kati perissotero na sas anakoinwsw.

BLAXOS: Eipate loipon, anaferomenos ston k. Korwnia ``kaqenas oti leei''. Ma o k. Korwnias htan o apokleistikos synomilhths ths kybernhshs epi 11 mhnes. Me ayton synomiloysate apo tis 10 Martioy, me ayton antallasate stoixeia, apo ayton phrate ton katalogo me ta onomata poy parakoloyqoysan, den ton dwsate ton katalogo poyqena alloy, gia na dieykrinistei an leei alhqeia o k. Korwnias, an exei parapoihsei ton katalogo, an exei prosqesei onomata h an exei afairesei onomata kai eseis oi treis ypoyrgoi, bghkate me ayton ton katalogo poy o ``kaqenas'' -opws eipate ton k. Korwnia- dhladh o k. Korwnias sas ton edwse kai ton anakoinwsate. Ara o k. Korwnias den einai o ``kaqenas''. Einai enas synomilhths sas. Otan leei loipon oti ``kapoios moy edwse thn entolh na mhn to anakoinwsw sthn ADAE, giati einai ycisths eqnikhs shmasias qema'', mono enas anqrwpos mporoyse na to pei, mia pleyra: H kybernhsh, kanenas allos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An kai akomca diatypwmenh, ektimw thn prospaqeia ``gkaimpelikoy'' xarakthra na prosacei sthn kybernhsh ayto to opoio prospaqhse na prosacei. Se kaqe periptwsh, h kybernhsh apo thn prwth stigmh, milhse me th Dikaiosynh, milhse sth Dikaiosynh kai den yphrje synomilhths kanenos alloy, oyte pronomiakoy oyte mh pronomiakoy. H Dikaiosynh eixe apo thn prwth stigmh to logo, synexizei na exei to logo kai qa exei kai ton teleytaio logo.

MPOTSARAKOS: Gia poion htan o xarakthrismos k. Ekproswpe;

BLAXOS: Poia einai h erwthsh ``gkaimpelikoy'' xarakthra, mporeite na mas to ejhghsete;

MPOTSARAKOS: Htan gia thn erwthsh h gia ton k. Korwnia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan gia thn erwthsh.

BLAXOS: Egw dhladh eimai o Gkaimpels;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anaferqhka se erwthsh ``gkaimpelikoy xarakthra''.

BLAXOS: Ara eimai o Gkaimpels.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa, oti kanate mia prospaqeia. Den jerw an qelete. Ean einai to protypo sas@Na sas to eyxhqw ean to qelete. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Sygnwmh, qelw na sas rwthsw kati. Emeis erxomaste edw na kanoyme mia erwthsh. Mporei na mhn sas aresei. Alla einai dynaton enas Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos na mas brizei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, den kanate erwthsh. Isws na mhn to katalabate, alla prosacate baria kathgoria sthn kybernhsh. Otan loipon prosaptete baria kathgoria sthn kybernhsh, anti erwthsews, qa parete kai to sxolio sthn erwthsh poy kanate.

BLAXOS: Ti kathgoria proshca sthn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan milate gia ``pronomiako synomilhth'', se mia ypoqesh gia thn opoia gnwrizete oti h kybernhsh apo thn prwth stigmh edwse entolh sth Dikaiosynh na asxolhqei ayth -kai monon ayth- kai erxeste kai moy lete oti h kybernhsh htan synomilhths epi 11 mhnes toy Dieyqynontos Symboyloy mias idiwtikhs etaireias h opoia parakoloyqoyse ton Prwqypoyrgo, ayto ti qewreite; Oti peripoiei timh sthn kybernhsh;

BLAXOS: Eseis den mas to eipate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw poly. Otan diatypwnete mia erwthsh, skefteite ti exete pei kai en synexeia na erqete na me egkalesete, giati xarakthrizw ``gkaimpelikoy'' xarakthra, thn prospaqeia thn opoia kanete.

BLAXOS: Eseis o idios paradexthkate oti ton katalogo ayto sas ton edwse o k. Korwnias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kalws. Yparxei allh erwthsh;

BLAXOS: Oxi, me sygxwreite. Den qa to afhsete etsi ayto na perasei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete parei apanthsh kyrie. Den qa parete allh apanthsh.

BLAXOS: Edw erxomaste na kanoyme erwthseis. Den mporeite na mas brizete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete kanei hdh para polles erwthseis kyrie. Mporeite na kanete oses qelete@

BLAXOS: Eimai poly megalyteros kai poly perissotera xronia sth dhmosiografia apo esas. Den mporeite na me brizete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma pali, sygxeete ta pragmata. Den eimai edw ws dhmosiografos. Eimai apenanti sas ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. An sygxeete ta pragmata, einai diko sas problhma, den einai diko moy. Kanate erwthsh, phrate apanthsh.

BLAXOS: Ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Oxi ws ybrisths mas. Eseis eiste ybrisths mas. Mas brizete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epistrefw ton xarakthrismo, kyrie.

BLAXOS: Kaname mia erwthsh, kai lete oti einai ``gkaimpelikoy'' xarakthra h erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epistrefw ton xarakthrismo.

BLAXOS: Kala, oloi krinontai apo tis prajeis toys, bebaia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Allh erwthsh. Kyrie Kyritsh.

KYRITSHS: Eipate oti mia etaireia parakoloyqoyse ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den einai safes oti ayth h etaireia eixe mesa sto logismiko ths ena systhma parakoloyqhshs; To poios ekane thn parakoloyqhsh qa to apodeijei h Dikaiosynh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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