Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-04-18

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 18 Aprilioy 2005

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

O Prwqypoyrgos se ligh wra paraqetei geyma pros timhn toy Proedroy ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs Xose Manoyel Mparozo.

Ayrio stis 11 to prwi, qa synedriasei sto Megaro Majimoy, h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qema to nomosxedio gia th metanasteytikh politikh, me eishghtes ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs k. Prokoph Paylopoylo kai ton Ypoyrgo Dhmosias Tajhs k. Giwrgo Boylgarakh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

TSIODRAS: Prin apo ligo sto Megaro Majimoy, rwthqhke o Prwqypoyrgos se sxesh me tis dhmoskophseis kai eipe oti den einai mia aplh maxh, eimaste se polemo kai ayto ton polemo qa ton kerdisoyme. Qa hqela na jerw, me poion einai se polemo h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me ta kaqhmerina problhmata, ta opoia exei episwreysei h yperdekaeths politikh toy PASOK, me shmantikotera ayta toy tomea ths oikonomias. Ginetai prospaqeia, ginontai kaqhmerines maxes, ginetai enas polemos na antepejelqei h kybernhsh se ayta. Eimaste bebaioi oti qa antapejelqoyme me poly megalh epityxia, ep` wfeleia ths ellhnikhs oikonomias synolika, alla kai ths oikonomias enos ekastoy twn Ellhnwn.

SIDERHS: Meta th xqesinh synenteyjh toy Erntogan, mhpws o k. Prwqypoyrgos exei metaniwsei gia thn koymparia toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei mia xqesinh dhlwsh toy Ekproswpoy toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, sthn opoia qa meinw kata keraia. Den exw na prosqesw tipote perissotero. O Prwqypoyrgos, allwste, ekane shmera mia anafora, meta th synanthsh toy me ton k. Mparozo.

XIWTHS: Ta symperasmata poy bgazei h kybernhsh apo tis teleytaies dhmoskophseis, gia thn kybernhsh einai oti xreiazetai kai kapoia diorqwsh ths poreias toy kybernhtikoy ergoy h synexizei ws exei, xwris allages, xwris tropopoihseis, xwris kamia allagh en pash periptwsei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An milate gia mia teleytaia dhmoskophsh, qa sas pw oti ta symperasmata poy ejagei kai gi` aythn einai ta idia, opws kai gia oles tis prohgoymenes. Qewroyme tis dhmoskophseis ergaleia doyleias. Qewroyme oti einai aparaithta stoixeia, poy mas bohqoyn sthn askhsh ths kaqhmerinhs politikhs, me stoixeia poly qetika, en prokeimenw se arketa shmeia, opws sthn ikanothta epilyshs twn megalyterwn problhmatwn toy topoy apo ayth thn kybernhsh, thn opoia empisteyontai oi Ellhnes polites. Kai epishs qetika ws stoixeia -opws anefera kai to Sabbato se mia dhlwsh poy ekana gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn ths oikonomias- sthn pio dyskolh, isws, stigmh ths kybernhshs, dhladh se aythn opoy elabe metra poy den einai idiaiterws dhmofilh.

SARANTAKOS: Antilambanomai plhrws th dhlwsh poy kanate prohgoymenws, ermhneyontas th frash toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Ayto poy hqela na rwthsw einai to ejhs: symfwna me th dhmoskophsh poy dhmosieyse to ``Eqnos ths Kyriakhs'' prokyptei epishs oti kai oi polites den fainetai na symmerizontai apolytws to gegonos oti briskeste se mia maxh gia to dikaio kai to swsto kai emfanizontai na aroyn, oxi thn empistosynh toys akribws, na meiwnontai oi prosdokies toys apo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Ayto pws to ermhneyete; Pera apo thn proqesh chfoy, tis dhmotikothtes kai ola ayta.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi polites synexizoyn na empisteyontai se poly megalo baqmo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Jerete oti exw dhlwsei polles fores sta tessera xronia poy hmoyn ekproswpos Typoy ths Neas Dhmokratias kai ena xrono twra Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos, oti den sxoliazw tis dhmoskophseis. Malista, eipa oti qa kanw mia ejairesh. Kai qa kanw mia ejairesh giati qelw na qymisw orismena pragmata ta opoia fainetai oti eykola jexnioyntai se ayto ton topo. Qymaste arage ligoys mono mhnes meta tis ekloges toy 2000 oti to PASOK ws kybernhsh htan poly pisw apo th Nea Dhmokratia; Qymaste arage thn perifhmh ekeinh katallhlothta toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h opoia kaqe toso mas anaferotan ws to meizon zhthma; Qymaste arage, ean mporoyse to PASOK na antimetwpisei ta megala problhmata toy topoy h h Nea Dhmokratia htan ekeinh poy se oles tis dhmoskophseis eixe to probadisma; Kai qymaste arage enamisi-dyo mhnes prin apo tis ekloges, dhmoskophseis, oi opoies eferan, meta thn allagh ths hgesias sto PASOK, to PASOK na kerdizei me miamish monada diafora tis ekloges; Sas eipa oti oi dhmoskophseis einai ergaleia doyleias kai qa sas qymisw mia frash poy eixa pei kai to kalokairi: Oi dhmoskophseis moiazoyn ligo me tis kolonies. Einai poly wraies otan tis myrizeis, alla poly epikindynes otan tis katapieis. As prosejoyn, loipon, aytoi oi opoioi prospaqoyn na tis xrhsimopoihsoyn san hdypoto, na mhn tis katapioyn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate oti h kybernhsh dinei ton polemo me ta kaqhmerina problhmata. Lynei kanena kaqhmerino problhma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dekades problhmata kaqe mera. Einai problhmata ta opoia exoyme lysei. Xairomai giati moy dinete gia mia akomh fora thn eykairia, na sas pw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na moy peite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai epeidh einai para polla, qa moy epitrecete na ta diabasw. Einai tosa polla poy den mporei kaneis na ta qymatai eykola ap` ejw.

Qelw na arxisw, milwntas gia toys Olympiakoys Agwnes. H frash ``h Ellada diorganwse toys kalyteroys Olympiakoys Agwnes h toys pio epityxhmenoys Olympiakoys Agwnes'' einai mia frash oligwn lejewn. Omws, pisw apo aytes tis liges lejeis, krybontai meronyxta doyleias apo tote poy anelabe ayth h kybernhsh. Qymisa prin apo liges meres thn ypoqesh toy Maraqwnioy dromoy. Yparxoyn kai polla alla zhthmata poy htan en ekkremothti. Qymaste, alhqeia, oti sthn prwth syntonistikh omada twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn -ypo thn proedria toy Ypoyrgoy Dhmosias Tajhs k. Boylgarakh, me th symmetoxh pollwn Ypoyrgwn ayths ths kybernhshs, ths Proedroy toy ``Aqhna 2004'' kai ths Dhmarxoy Aqhnaiwn- anakoinwqhke pws yphrxan ekatontades synarmodiothtwn poy eixan meinei en ekkremothti metajy twn Ypoyrgeiwn gia na lyqoyn toys epomenoys ligoys mhnes, wste na exoyme Olympiakoys Agwnes xwris problhmata; Dekapente hmeres prin apo toys Olympiakoys Agwnes mono mia synarmodiothta eixe meinei. H kybernhsh ayth eixe katabalei kaqe prospaqeia, eixe doylecei gia para polles wres gia na exoyme toys pio epityxhmenoys Olympiakoys Agwnes. Htan mia yperprospaqeia, h opoia den mporei na apajiwqei. Oyte bebaiws mporei na apajiwqei, se kamia periptwsh, h opoia prosfora twn prohgoymenwn etwn. H oysia einai oti h epityxia epeteyxqh xarh sthn pollh kai kalh doyleia poy egine.

Ena deytero zhthma, to opoio antimetwpise poly grhgora h kybernhsh htan to qema toy LAFKA. To LAFKA, apo thn 1h Ioynioy den yparxei pleon ws eisfora stoys syntajioyxoys. Kai gnwrizoyme poly kala kai thn teleytaia ejelijh me ta anadromika sto LAFKA. Ena trito zhthma htan ta panwtokia, h ryqmish enos problhmatos poy ekkremoyse panw apo deka xronia.

Epitrecte moy na sas pw mono tria zhthmata ta opoia paralabame ws dekaeth problhmata. To prwto einai ta panwtokia. To deytero einai to LAFKA. Einai dyo zhthmata poy aforoyn thn tseph kai thn oikonomia toy polith sthn kaqhmerinothta toy. Oi symbasioyxoi einai to trito gia to opoio h kybernhsh me to Proedriko ths Diatagma ekane megala bhmata, wste na lysei thn omhria aytwn twn anqrwpwn poy eixe, gia polla xronia se ayth thn katastash, h prohgoymenh kybernhsh.

Qa sas diabasw kai ton ypoloipo katalogo: Taxeia katabolh twn agrotikwn enisxysewn, enisxysh ths oikonomikhs aytoteleias ths Topikhs Aytodioikhshs me to anaptyjiako programma QHSEAS kai to neo qesmiko plaisio gia thn Nomarxiakh Aytodioikhsh. Stis Nomarxiakes Aytodioikhseis doqhkan persi 115 ekatommyria eyrw. Fetos einai panw apo 175 ekatommyria eyrw ta opoia dinontai ws enisxysh apo to Ellhniko Dhmosio. Stis Topikes Aytodioikhseis, o k. Paylopoylos me nomo efere mia ryqmish, h opoia allaje ton tropo me ton opoio ginontan oi plhrwmes pros toys Dhmoys, etsi wste na mhn jodeyontai askopa xrhmata apo kapoia dhmosia yphresia xwris syntonismo. Ginetai pleon enas syntonismos sto pws diatiqentai ta xrhmata stoys Dhmoys, dhladh sthn Topikh Aytodioikhsh. Neo forologiko nomosxedio, sto opoio perilambanetai meiwsh twn forologikwn syntelestwn gia toys epixeirhmaties, toys megaloys kai toys mikromesaioys, prokeimenoy na dhmioyrghqoyn kalyteres synqhkes sthn agora kai perissoteres qeseis ergasias gia thn antimetwpish toy problhmatos ths anergias.

H katapolemhsh ths kratikhs spatalhs. Exw anaferqei polles fores se ayto kai to eidate ston Proypologismo toy 2005. H apistia peri thn yphresia: Ws plhmmelhma eixe xarakthrisei to PASOK thn apistia peri thn yphresia. Einai shmantikh politikh apofash oti xarakthrizetai, pleon, ws kakoyrghma. Deixnei to sebasmo poy ofeiloyme ston Ellhna polith kai sto ellhniko dhmosio. H katarghsh toy maqhmatikoy typoy kai h antikatastash toy apo ena dikaiotero systhma meiodotikwn diagwnismwn.

To nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo me ta opoia zhthmata yparxoyn sth syzhthsh me thn Komision, apodeiknyei afenos thn politikh boylhsh mias kybernhshs na mhn symbibastei. Afeteroy de, na deijei ston Ellhna polith -tois pragmasi, oxi mono qewrhtika ws eikona epikoinwniakhs politikhs- oti ayth h kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na mhn afhsei ta opoia mikra h megala symferonta na yperisxysoyn twn problhmatwn twn Ellhnwn politwn. Na leitoyrghsei pio dikaia h Dhmosia Dioikhsh. To qesmiko plaisio poy periorizei th grafeiokratia. Yparxei, hdh, epitroph poy exei kanei protaseis gia th grafeiokratia. Oi syskeceis ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs qa arxisoyn na apodidoyn karpoys poly syntoma. Exoyn ginei hdh treis fores syzhthseis gia megales ependyseis poy kaqysteroyn se ayto ton topo 10-15-20 xronia. Tis gnwrizete. Oi apozhmiwseis twn ELGA kai h taxythta me thn opoia kataballontai. H meiwsh toy epitokioy gia xiliades agrotes.

Apo kei kai pera, einai para polla ta qemata ana ypoyrgeio. Exoyn lyqei problhmata pollwn etwn. Qa sas anaferw ena qema to opoio mporei na mhn einai to spoydaiotero gia toys Ellhnes polites, alla einai eyxaristo gia toys pneymatikoys mas dhmioyrgoys kai epilyqhke prin apo mia ebdomada. Oi pneymatikoi mas dhmioyrgoi, epi deka kai pleon xronia, den epairnan ta xrhmata poy toys analogoysan apo thn ERT. Den yphrxe symfwnia. Ayth h symfwnia ypegrafh gia prwth fora, meta apo 10 xronia. Einai sebasmos ston politismo otan sebesai to pneymatiko dhmioyrghma. To idio synebh me ta pneymatika dhmioyrghmata twn skhnoqetwn kai twn senariografwn sthn idiwtikh thleorash. Epitrecete moy mia mikrh anafora se qemata poy aptontai twn dyo Grammateiwn poy exw thn timh na proistamai kai h opoia ginetai mono kai mono gia na deijw problhmata pollwn etwn poy lynontai. Opws gia paradeigma to problhma twn texnikwn ths thleorashs me toys opoioys synergazeste. Epi 16 xronia, dhladh, apo to 1989, poy leitoyrgei h idiwtikh thleorash, oi texnikoi den eixan ypogracei oyte mia syllogikh symbash. Koitajte toys sta matia. Emeis toys koitajame sta matia, opws kai oloys toys alloys ergazomenoys, toys sebasthkame kai prospaqhsame na lysoyme ta problhmata toys.

Yparxei mia seira pollwn qematwn, ta opoia antimetwpizei kaqhmerina h kybernhsh kai prospaqei na ta lynei. Den teleiwnei allwste h doyleia ton prwto xrono. Exoyme poly dromo mprosta mas. Eimaste bebaioi oti ayton ton polemo twn problhmatwn qa ton kerdisoyme, opws dhlwse prin apo ligh wra o Prwqypoyrgos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai giati yparxei h dysforia apo to lao; Mhpws exei problhma epikoinwnias h kybernhsh me to lao;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qetete ena erwthma sto opoio exw hdh apanthsei. Den qa pw kati diaforetiko. Einai zhthma poy exei na kanei me th dhmosia eikona ths kybernhshs. Opws eipa, kapoios mporei to kalo na to kanei kalytero kai to kalytero einai panta o exqros toy kaloy. Ean me rwtate proswpika, sas apantw, opws kai ton Aygoysto otan moy eixate qesei thn idia erwthsh: Exw mia poly dyskolh doyleia na kanw kai thn kanw me ton kalytero tropo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, proswpika. Den rwtaw pote proswpika. Alla, lew, o laos giati den to katalabainei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ws dhmosiografos.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai egw ep` aytoy qelw na rwthsw. Giati, ola ayta ta metra poy anaferate kai poy eixate enan katalogo, den exoyn aphxhsh sthn koinh gnwmh. Kati den phgainei kala. An sas problhmatizei ayth h eikona ths kybernhshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw pws prokyptei to symperasma oti den exoyn aphxhsh sthn koinh gnwmh. Pisteyw oti h koinh gnwmh exei katalabei polla ap` ayta ta opoia ginontai. Kai pisteyw, epishs, oti yparxei safes politiko mhnyma to opoio ftanei sthn koinh gnwmh, asxetws me to an proballetai me ton alfa h bhta tropo h den proballetai kaqoloy.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, koitwntas th dhmoskophsh parathrhsa to ejhs: Enw o Prwqypoyrgos prohgeitai sthn katallhlothta toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs 8 monades, to komma ths Neas Dhmokratias se epipedo proqeshs chfoy prohgeitai 1,4 monades. Blepw, epishs, oti enw sthn katallhlothta o Prwqypoyrgos pairnei ena pososto 39,3, sthn proqesh chfoy h Nea Dhmokratia pairnei 36,1. Bgazw ena symperasma to opoio qewrw logiko: Mhpws xreiazetai na proxwrhsei o Prwqypoyrgos se diorqwseis se epipedo kybernhshs; Kybernhtikoy sxhmatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos jerei poly kala ti prepei na kanei kai pws prepei na kanei th doyleia toy. H mia dhmoskophsh h opoia anaferqhke sthn erwthsh sas exei hdh sxoliastei apo emena prin apo ligo, kaqws kai to Sabbato. Den exw na prosqesw tipota perissotero.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo th stigmh poy mas apariqmhsate enan katalogo kaqhmerinwn problhmatwn, ta opoia opws lete eseis epilyei h kybernhsh, tote poy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi opws lew egw. Yparxei kati ap` ola ayta ta opoia den einai etsi opws sas to eipa;

PALAIOLOGOS: Afhste na to krinei h koinh gnwmh. Egw den eimai edw kriths ths koinhs gnwmhs. Egw lew to ejhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite, alla kanete sxolio to opoio einai ypotimhtiko gia thn kybernhsh. Sas anefera mia seira qematwn, problhmatwn, ta opoia epelyse h kybernhsh. Ti ennoeite ``epilyei opws lew egw'';

PALAIOLOGOS: Apo th stigmh poy epilyei h kybernhsh to problhma, poy apodidete tote eseis thn ayjanomenh dysforia, opws katagrafhke sth dhmoskophsh, ayth th monadikh estw, kai ean telika eseis qewreite oti gi` aythn thn ayjanomenh dysforia ths koinhs gnwmhs kai twn politwn, eyqynontai mono ta antidhmofilh metra gia thn oikonomia poy elhfqhsan prosfatws h telika ftaiei kai kati allo; Dhladh, mhpws exoyn diaceysqei h estw exoyn meiwqei oi prosdokies twn politwn ap` aythn thn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas exw hdh apanthsei sto qema.

IWANNOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, milwntas xqes se mia kommatikh ekdhlwsh, eipate oti h kybernhsh dexetai mia lyssalea epiqesh poy se allh periptwsh mia tetoia kritikh qa ginotan ston ogdoo xrono diakybernhshs enos kommatos. Qa hqela na rwthsw apo poy, kata th gnwmh sas, dexetai ayth th lyssalea epiqesh h kybernhsh; An mporeite na mas peite apo poia kentra h ti allo ennooysate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai gnwsto apo poia kentra. Ta blepoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites kaqhmerinws. Doja tw Qew, ola s` ayton ton topo ginontai dhmosia, peran toy oti o topos einai poly mikros kai gnwrizomaste poly kala metajy mas.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apariqmhsate mia seira ergwn. Ayta omws einai aplh qesmoqethsh. Oydeis sas katalogise elleich kalhs diaqeshs. To problhma einai h ylopoihsh toys. Dhladh, ta panwtokia. Den exoyn kanei tipota. Akomh, oi agrotes piezontai. Oi symbasioyxoi htan to 1/10 apo osoys eixate yposxeqei. H kratikh spatalh einai elleich dhmosiwn ependysewn kai oxi periorismos ths spatalhs. Den yparxoyn dhladh metra ta opoia ylopoioyntai kai exoyn antanaklash stoys polites. Einai apla mia qesmoqethsh poy deixnei thn kalh sas proqesh kai thn opoia kaneis den sas thn anairese.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Feygontas, rwthste toys texnikoys ths thleorashs na sas poyn an einai proqeseis h pragmatikothta ayto poy eipa. Qa moy peite, ayto einai to ena qema; Oxi. Einai polla ta qemata. Alla, exete mia proseggish h opoia, qa elega oti einai mallon mhdenistikh kai h opoia einai kai laqos. Den isxyei ayto poy eipate.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw pws prosdiorizei h kybernhsh ton koino topo poy qa prepei na anazhthqei metajy ths kybernhshs sas kai ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs, opws o k. Mparozo kai o k. Karamanlhs prin apo ligo eipan oti prepei na ton anazhthsoyme kai na ton broyme. Poios einai aytos o koinos topos; Ti einai ayto poy leipei, dhladh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, o koinos topos den prosdiorizetai apo th mia pleyra. Tiqentai qemata kai apo th mia kai apo thn allh pleyra kai en synexeia oi dyo pleyres anazhtoyn apo koinoy ton koino topo.

MIXAHL: Me sygxwreite. Ara, kyrie Ekproswpe, apo thn apanthsh sas qa symperanw oti ayth th stigmh ta qemata poy tiqentai apo thn pleyra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs den briskontai se koino topo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw poia qa einai h apanthsh ths Komision, den thn exw sta xeria moy, den exei erqei allwste. Otan erqei kai h apanthsh ths Komision qa eimai se qesh na sas pw perissotera pragmata. Sas lew, omws, oti, otan anazhtei kapoios koino topo -einai ekpefrasmenh proqesh apo thn kybernhsh edw kai poly kairo- syzhta me ayton poy exei thn opoia diafwnia, prokeimenoy na breqei aytos o koinos topos. To yp` ariqmon ena qema, omws, poy qelw na qymaste ap` aythn thn istoria einai oti h prospaqeia ths kybernhshs ejantleitai se dyo dromoys. O prwtos dromos einai h thrhsh toy Syntagmatos kai einai ypoxrewmenh h kaqe kybernhsh na sebastei to Syntagma. O deyteros dromos einai h oysia aytoy toy opoioy qetei to Syntagma. Dhladh, h diasfalish tetoiwn diadikasiwn, wste na yparxei diafaneia sto dhmosio bio, eidikotera sto qema sxesewn metajy MME kai etairiwn dhmosiwn symbasewn, epixeirhmatiwn MME kai epixeirhmatiwn twn etairiwn poy synaptoyn dhmosies symbaseis. To zhtoymeno, loipon, gia th diafaneia paramenei kai einai strathgikos stoxos ths Neas Dhmokratias, apo ton opoio den afistatai kata keraian.

TSIODRAS: Lete oti qa einai symbates oi opoies ryqmiseis me thn epitagh toy Syntagmatos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Peite moy thn erwthsh giati den to diatypwsa etsi.

TSIODRAS: Perifrastika to lew. Telos pantwn h politikh boylhsh gia na xtyphqei h diaplokh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: San dhmosiografos gnwrizete oti se mia frash ena ``kai'' h ena ``syn-plhn'' allazei ola ta dedomena.

TSIODRAS: Xrewnetai se emena, mhn anhsyxeite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pistwnetai se esas kaqe erwthsh sas.

TSIODRAS: Se sxesh me ton koino topo: Ean aytos o koinos topos qa breqei, -efoson leei o k. Mparozo oti proqesh einai na mhn pame sta Eyrwpaika Dikasthria- me kapoies tropopoihseis poy qa ginoyn sto nomo poy exei chfisei h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa prepei na perimenoyme -kai ayto qa htan to sobaro apo thn pleyra moy- thn apanthsh ths Komision epi ths analytikhs topoqethsews mas, poy egine prin apo liges hmeres, se epistolh poy exete hdh sta xeria sas.

XIWTHS: Apo tis dhlwseis poy ekanan meta th synanthsh poy eixan, o k. Karamanlhs kai k. Mparozo, prokyptei prwton, oti syzhthsan afenos ayto to zhthma. Kai, deyteron, oti ta epixeirhmata ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, opws katagrafhkan sthn epistolh, den qewroyntai eparkh apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. Gi ayto, isws ki emeis, biazomaste ligo na diereynhsoyme tis proqeseis ths kybernhshs, efoson epibebaiwqei apo thn epistolh ayto akribws, oti den qewroyntai eparkh ta epixeirhmata mas kai arage thn aneyresh ayths ths koina apodekths lyshs, qa prepei h ellhnikh kybernhsh na probei se kapoies tropopoihseis, toylaxiston toy nomoy. Ayto rwtame.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa hdh sto deytero skelos toy erwthmatos sas. Oson afora sto prwto skelos toy erwthmatos sas, qelw na sas pw, na diabasete akribws tis dhlwseis toy k. Mparozo. Den prokyptei ayto poy lete. O k. Mparozo milhse me safhneia gia mia diadikasia poy einai en ejelijei. Kai den qa hqele na topoqethqei peran ayths ths diadikasias gia to nomoqetiko plaisio ths xwras kai bebaiws twn odhgiwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Koinothtas.

XIWTHS: Na to qesw diaforetika: H plhroforhsh poy exete apo th shmerinh synanthsh einai oti h E.E. yioqetei, dexetai ta epixeirhmata ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs h ta aporriptei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den egine kapoia analytikh syzhthsh sth shmerinh synanthsh, opws eikasate prohgoymenws. Egine mia poly syntomh anafora sto qema. Den yparxei kati perissotero apo ayta poy eipe kai o Prwqypoyrgos kai o k. Mparozo dhmosiws.

TSIODRAS: O k. Mparozo milhse gia aitiaseis apo thn pleyra ths E.E. oi opoies qa perilambanontai sthn kainoyrgia apanthtikh epistolh. Ara, loipon, fainetai oti ayto poy eipe o synadelfos, den yparxei symfwnia ths E.E. me ta nomika epixeirhmata ths ellhnikhs pleyras.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akoma kai ean isxyei ayto, sas lew oti ofeilw na perimenw giati den to exw ws stoixeio, ayto poy anaferete. Ofeilw na perimenw thn apanthsh ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs. Exontas thn apanthsh ths E.E. h kybernhsh qa prajei sth synexeia ta deonta .

GKOYTZANHS: Ean katalaba kala h ellhnikh kybernhsh den qelei na paei sto eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio gi ayth th diafora. Gia poio logo;

ROYSOPOYLOS:Den exw apokleisei tipote. Sas lew oti pantote ginetai prospaqeia na ejeyreqei koinos topos. Opws jerete se kapoies diafwnies h diafores qa prepei kaneis na ejantlei ta periqwria dialogoy gia thn ejeyresh koinoy topoy, prin odhghqei se opoiadhpote endika mesa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa gyrisw sta problhmata ths kaqhmerinothtas, parolo poy exw ginei koyrastikos: Mhpws h kybernhsh, epeidh htan apo tis prwtes proteraiothtes, prokeitai epiteloys na kanei kati, gia to qema toy Xrhmatisthrioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete hdh h Dikaiosynh exei asxolhqei me polles ypoqeseis. Moy dinete thn eykairia na pw oti ena megalo pososto twn ypoqesewn eixan odhghqei se paragrafh apo ton tropo me ton opoio xeiristhke ta qemata h prohgoymenh kybernhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ayto lew ki egw. Kaqysterhse h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. Exw ejhghsei kai allh fora ayto to qema. Otan mesolaboyn dyo eklogikes anametrhseis, einai qemata poy problepontai apo to Syntagma kai ton Kanonismo ths Boylhs. Exoyme kinhqei grhgora, oysiastika me paraklhseis pros th Dikaiosynh kai dhmosies paraklhseis -exw kanei apo ayth thn aiqoysa- na proxwrhsei oso pio grhgora ginetai. Opws gnwrizete, exoyn hdh epiblhqei aysthres poines se epixeirhmaties poy xeiragwghsan metoxes. Exoyme, en ejelijei, thn ypoqesh ths DEKA. Elpizw syntoma na eimaste se qesh na akoysoyme ta newtera apo th Dikaiosynh kai gia thn ypoqesh ayth. Den einai mia desmeysh poy jexasthke se kamia periptwsh. Einai, panw apo ola, sebasmos ston Ellhna polith. Kai o sebasmos ston Ellhna polith na eiste bebaios oti apotelei mia apo tis proteraiothtes ayths ths kybernhshs, ean oxi thn prwth, sto tropo askhshs ths politikhs ths.

PEPONHS: Exete mprosta enan katalogo, apo ton opoio diabasate orismena, me to ti kanate. Katalogo me ti den kanate exete; Mporeite na mas peite orismena;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme dyo katalogoys sthn kybernhsh, afoy me rwtate. O enas einai aytos me tis proeklogikes desmeyseis mas kai tis desmeyseis poy exoyme labei twn prohgoymenwn etwn, ws antipoliteysh, opws aytes apotypwqhkan me enargeia sto proeklogiko programma ths Neas Dhmokratias. Kai mporeite na to exete ki eseis to programma, allwste einai dhmosieymeno polles fores. Yparxei o deyteros katalogos opoy shmeiwnontai ta qemata poy epilyontai. Me poly xara, mporw na kanw egw ayth th doyleia gi esas ean qelete, dhmosiografika dhladh na sas dwsw ta qemata poy exoyn hdh epilyqei.

SARANTAKOS: Eipate gia thn epikoinwniakh politikh, apantwntas sthn kritikh poy askeitai sthn kybernhsh, na moy epitrecete na pw kai apo Mesa poy proskeintai sthn kybernhsh, oti ``o exqros toy kaloy einai to kalytero''.Hqela na rwthsw, loipon, poies einai oi kinhseis poy kanete eseis ws epikefalhs toy epikoinwniakoy epiteleioy, prokeimenoy na petyxete to kalytero; Kai ena deytero erwthma synafes, einai an isxyoyn ayta ta opoia diabasa stis efhmerides, oti qa kaqierwqei mia prwinh synanthsh to Megaro Majimoy me th dikh sas symmetoxh kai allwn ypoyrgwn h an qa arxisoyn na bgainoyn pros ta ejw kai alloi ypoyrgoi, prokeimenoy na dhmioyrghqei mia epikoinwniakh omada ypoyrgwn gia na proballetai kalytera to kybernhtiko ergo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai erwthmata sta opoia, kata kairoys, exw apanthsei. Qa moy epitrecete mono na pw oti kata kairoys diabazw polla pragmata ta opoia ginontai h qa ginoyn. Gia paradeigma, to teleytaio ejamhno exw diabasei kai exw parakoloyqhsei se diafora radiofwnika h thleoptika diktya, oti h kybernhsh exei anasxhmatistei toylaxiston deka fores. Exw dei toylaxiston dyo prowres ekloges. Exw dei, loipon, para polla pragmata, ta opoia den antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati den ton kanete, loipon, na teleiwnoyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ws prwhn dhmosiografos skeptomoyn oti, otan ginoyn oi opoies allages -o Prwqypoyrgos exei topoqethqei kai dhmosiws gia to pws ennoei to qema toy anasxhmatismoy- qa einai polloi ekeinoi poy qa gracoyn ``wdynen oros kai eteken myn'' kai diafora tetoia. Eimai bebaios kai shmeiwste to apo twra, qa to qymhqoyme kai tote.

SARANTAKOS: Den moy apanthsate sto prwto erwthma. Dhladh, anejarthtws aytwn poy diaceydete, poies einai oi kinhseis poy kanete eseis gia to kalytero epikoinwniako apotelesma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, kaqe ypoyrgos kai kaqe kybernhsh krinetai apo to apotelesma kai oxi me to na anakoinwnei poies einai oi kinhseis tis opoies qa kanei.

XIWTHS: Sxoliasate kai eseis tis plhrofories poy metadoqhkan h grafhkan to perasmeno Sabbatokyriako gia ton anasxhmatismo. Kai den amfisbhtei kaneis mas oti armodios gi` ayto einai enas, o Prwqypoyrgos, me ton opoio profanws synomilhsate shmera to prwi. Qa qelame, loipon, na mas peite me poly apla logia ti leei o Prwqypoyrgos diabazontas oles aytes tis plhrofories oti prokeitai na anasxhmatisei thn kybernhsh toy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporei ayto poy me rwtate na apotelei antikeimeno politikoy h parapolitikoy reportaz, alla den apotelei antikeimeno kybernhtikhs dhlwshs.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epanerxomai sta problhmata ths kaqhmerinothtas. Apariqmhsate enan katalogo me ta problhmata poy exete epilysei. Mporeite na moy peite, omws, giati apo ton katalogo twn qematwn poy exoyn epilyqei, apoysiazei to qema ths akribeias, to opoio antimetwpizei kaqhmerina o poliths h h noikokyra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanoyme prospaqeies na sympiesoyme tis times, na bohqhsoyme ton Ellhna polith na brei pio antagwnistikes synqhkes, wste na agorazei proionta se kalyteres times. Kai aytes oi prospaqeies apodidoyn se poly megalo baqmo. Yphrxe sto parelqon mia toso shmantikh prospaqeia apo mia kybernhsh; Qymaste na eixe epibalei allh kybernhsh prostima opws ayta poy epeblhqhsan twra, se diafores kathgories epixeirhmatiwn; Qymhqeite ti egine me thn ypoqesh ths eisagwghs trofimwn, ta opoia emfanizan ws ellhnika. H kybernhsh epelhfqh toy qematos kai malista me megalh taxythta kai aysthrothta.

SIDERHS: Mas eipate pws otan ginei o anasxhmatismos qa leme ``wdynen oros kai eteken myn''. Mhpws mas proideazete gia mikro diorqwtiko anasxhmatismo, epeidh h kybernhsh den exei ekeino to baqos stelexwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti kapoioi grafoyn gia epikeimenoys anasxhmatismoys. Egine kai qa ginei, jana. Epta-oktw-deka-dekapente anasxhmatismoi ``exoyn ginei'' ayto to diasthma. Toys teleytaioys eji mhnes, dhladh, ``exoyn ginei'' polloi anasxhmatismoi. Ekana kai mia problech, par` oti h kybernhsh kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos exei topoqethqei dhmosiws gia to qema toy anasxhmatismoy, to ti peripoy orismena MME qa probaloyn, ocepote ginei kapoia kinhsh apo thn pleyra toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Kai ekana ayth thn problech, gia na yparxei katagegrammenh kai na th syzhthsoyme kai pali, tote, edw.

Sas eyxaristw poly.

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