Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-01-26

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 26 Ianoyarioy 2005

JENOY TYPOY APO TON ANAPLHRWTH KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Antwnare, exoyn perasei diaforoi apo th qesh toy Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy, pote omws den fantasthka oti qa erqei h stigmh na einai se aytes tis qeseis kleidia dyo prwhn dhmosiografoi kai na ektojeyqoyn aytes oi laspes enantion twn dhmosiografwn xwris epwnymes kataggelies. Ean men, ws dhmosiografoi, gnwrizate ayta ta opoia shmera kataggellete kai den ta eixate kataggeilei tote, shmainei oti den hsastan kaloi dhmosiografoi. Ean ta kataggellete shmera poy ginate politikoi shmainei oti tote paizete politiko paixnidi. Mhpws mporeite na epilejete ena apo ta dyo; Paizete politiko paixnidi;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den paizei kanena politiko paixnidi. Epeidh eipate oti ektojeyqhke lasph @gia na xrhsimopoihsw mia dikh sas ekfrash - oyte o k. Roysopoylos, oyte egw, alla oyte bebaiws kai h kybernhsh thn opoia ekproswpoyme, ektojeyse lasph enantion kanenos. Ayrio qa ginei enas eyrys, anoiktos kai eilikrinhs dialogos ston opoion elpizoyme oti qa metasxoyn oloi osoi exoyn klhqei. Kai kata th dikh mas ektimhsh exoyn logo panw sto qema poy qa syzhthqei.

BLAXOS: Ws dhmosiografos, omws, eixate polemhsei thn parembash twn politikwn kommatwn sta dhmosiografika. Twra, loipon, ws politikos toys kaleite. Oi politikoi kai ta kommata, opws gnwrizete, qeloyn toys dhmosiografoys na einai tsirakia toys. Pws, loipon, qa erqoyn oi ekproswpoi twn kommatwn na syzhthsoyn gia th dhmosiografikh deontologia; Pws aytoi einai ajiopistoi;

ANTWNAROS: Ayth h kybernhsh den qelei na xrhsimopoiei kanenan ws tsiraki ths. To plaisio sto opoio qa kinhqei h syzhthsh einai safes. Sas to ejeqese thn perasmenh Paraskeyh o k. Roysopoylos kai ejakoloyqei na isxyei. Den exw tipote allo na prosqesw. Ki eseis, nomizw, den exete para na perimenete na deite pws qa ejelixqei ayrio o dialogos.

PAPAGIANNHS: Th lista poy exei sta xeria toy o k. Sompolos eseis thn gnwrizete; Gnwrizete poia onomata symperilambanontai se aythn;

ANTWNAROS: Den jerw se poia lista anafereste.

PAPAGIANNHS: Kykloforei oti yparxei mia lista me dhmosiografoys, h opoia paradoqhke apo ton k. Prwtopapa ston k. Sompolo.

ANTWNAROS: Qa epanalabw ayto poy exoyme pei epaneilhmmenws tis teleytaies hmeres: Yparxei sygkekrimenh ypoxrewsh twn ypoyrgeiwn kai twn dhmosiwn forewn na ypobaloyn mia fora to xrono sto prwhn Ypoyrgeio Typoy kai shmera sth Genikh Grammateia Epikoinwnias, onomastikes katastaseis dhmosiografwn oi opoioi apasxoloyntai se aytoys toys tomeis. Ayto kaq` ayto to gegonos den periexei kamia momfh.

BLAXOS: Gia thn kybernhsh yparxoyn politikoi poy xrhmatizontai;

ANTWNAROS: Den apantw se genikologes erwthseis, oi opoies -tolmw na pw- exoyn th xroia toy entypwsiasmoy. Opoios xrhmatizetai, se opoiadhpote sfaira kai an kineitai, prepei na einai ypeyqynos kai ypologos apenanti stoys nomoys ths xwras.

POYLIDOY: Hqela na rwthsw, epomenws, poia dysleitoyrgia qa hqele na diorqwsei h kybernhsh me thn prwtoboylia ths; Se poio pragma eseis apeyqynate momfh;

ANTWNAROS: Perimenete mexri ayrio, stis 9.30 to prwi, na deite tis protaseis kai tis qeseis ths kybernhshs.

POYLIDOY: Oxi, k. Ekproswpe, ena lepto. Ypotiqetai oti prepei na jeroyme ti epidiwkete gia na krinoyme kai ti epitygxanete. Gi` ayto sas rwtaw ti epidiwkete na` xoyme kai to krithrio.

ANTWNAROS: To ti epidiwkoyme qa to deite ayrio to prwi stis 9.30. Den prokeitai egw na proanaggeilw th qesh ths kybernhshs.

SIDERHS: Epanaferw mia palia erwthsh moy, h opoia isws den egine katanohth apo sas. Sas eixa rwthsei an qa dwsete sth dhmosiothta metoxoys etaireiwn poy kanoyn ejwterikes dhmosiografikes paragwges gia thn ERT kai etaireies Diafhmisewn kai Dhmosiwn Sxesewn poy emplekontai me ton eyrytero dhmosio tomea, eite DEKO, eite anwnymes etaireies toy Dhmosioy. Den mas endiaferoyn oi diafhmistes, mas endiaferoyn oi dhmosiografoi poy einai metoxoi aytwn twn etaireiwn. Kai eirhsqw en parodw einai aytoi poy bgainoyn me dakrybrekth proshlwsh sta ``paraqyra'' yper ths diafaneias kai ths deontologias toy epaggelmatos.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai h dikh sas ektimhsh. Sto qema sto opoio anafereste, den blepw poy yparxei armodiothta ths kybernhshs.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa sas kanw mia entelws proswpopoihmenh erwthsh, giati me afora proswpika. Egw ergazomai apo tis 9 to prwi ews tis 10 to brady se treis doyleies. H mia kata kapoio tropo syndeetai me to ellhniko Dhmosio, an kai plhrwnomai apo ton koinotiko proypologismo, ton proypologismo ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Qelw na sas rwthsw kati: An ayrio bgalete tis listes poinikopoieitai h ergasia;

ANTWNAROS: Poios eipe ayto to pragma;

SPYRAKH: Afhste me na oloklhrwsw. Poinikopoieitai h ergasia twn anqrwpwn poy ergazontai h sth Grammateia h stoys Organismoys h sta Grafeia Typoy kai giati katalhjame se aytes tis listes kai oxi se listes me mystika kondylia poy exoyn kataggelqei apo ton prwhn Prwqypoyrgo Kwnstantino Mhtsotakh kai aforoysan mystika kondylia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, epi ypoyrgias Samara;

ANTWNAROS: Epeidh qetete sygkekrimeno qema, sas apantw oti den poinikopoieitai kaneis gia th doyleia poy kanei. Den poinikopoieitai h ergasia kanenos. Den poinikopoioyntai oi anqrwpoi poy ergazontai sto ellhniko Dhmosio. To exoyme katasthsei safes apo thn prwth stigmh. Kai pisteyw oti ayto ta leei ola.

SIDERHS: Tote, giati jekinhse h prwtoboylia; Den exoyme katalabei.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Poia einai h lista tote;

ANTWNAROS: Se poia lista anafereste;

SPYRAKH: O prwhn Prwqypoyrgos k. Mhtsotakhs exei kanei logo gia mystika kondylia epi ypoyrgias Samara sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn. Yparxei tetoia lista;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apantw oti den yparxei tetoia lista. To exei pei o k. Roysopoylos epaneilhmmenws. Kai sas to epanalambanw gia pollosth fora mesa se ayth thn aiqoysa.

BLAXOS: Exei rwthsei ton k. Mhtsotakh o kyrios@

ANTWNAROS: Opoios exei tetoies listes, den exei para na tis kataqesei.

BLAXOS: O k. Roysopoylos exei rwthsei ton k. Mhtsotakh;

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxoyn sto ellhniko Dhmosio tetoies listes me dhmosiografoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, yparxei tetoia lista, thn eixa zhthsei egw kai th zhtoysa kaqe mera kapote, kai moy eipe o k. Benizelos oti thn exei o k. Papadhmos, o Dioikhths ths Trapezas ths Ellados, kai den th dinei. Ara, an anoijete palia to briefing kai to diabasete qa deite thn apanthsh toy k. Benizeloy.

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxoyn, toylaxiston, se ayth thn kybernhsh tetoies listes poy na aforoyn toys dhmosiografoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Afoy den yparxei kanena tetoio problhma, giati anoije ayth th stigmh h kybernhsh ayto to@

ANTWNAROS: Moy apodidete logia poy den exw pei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, den eipa oti eipate. Eipate oti den paizei kanena politiko paixnidi. Giati anoixqhke tote ayto to paixnidi; Politiko ginetai twra.

ANTWNAROS: O k. Roysopoylos anaferqhke analytikotata, thn perasmenh Paraskeyh, sto sygkekrimeno qema. Qa sas parakalesw na perimenete mexri ayrio.

GALIATSATOS: Epeidh akribws o k. Roysopoylos anaferqhke analytikotata, thn perasmenh Paraskeyh, sto sygkekrimeno qema kai epeidh milhse gia ryqmish twn sxesewn twn dhmosiografwn ston eyrytero dhmosio tomea@

ANTWNAROS: O k. Roysopoylos milhse gia aytoryqmish.

GALIATSATOS: En pash periptwsei, thn prwtoboylia thn anelabe h kybernhsh. Egw epanaferw thn erwthsh ths k. Spyrakh. Poinikopoieitai thn ergasia ayth th stigmh;

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den akoysate th safh apanthsh poy edwsa prin apo liga lepta.

GALIATSATOS: Thn akoysa kai den htan kaqoloy safhs.

ANTWNAROS: Kaqenas exei dikaiwma na exei thn apoch toy gia ton eayton toy.

SARANTAKOS: Efoson den poinikopoieitai h ergasia kai ayto poy katalabainw egw einai oti den einai kako na ergazontai sto dhmosio tomea kai ellhnes dhmosiografoi, tote, janarwtaw, poio einai to mempto sthn olh istoria; Giati mpainei ena systhma oloklhro se ena dialogo kai poios einai o stoxos telika ayths ths ypoqeshs;

ANTWNAROS: Qa akoysete ayrio.

GKOYTZANHS: Sygnwmh kyrie Ekproswpe, thn prohgoymenh fora o k. Roysopoylos eixe pei oti yparxei ena qema me ekeinoys oi opoioi, endexomenws, exoyn 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 doyleies poy plhrwnontai apo to dhmosio. Allaje kati kai den to epanalambanete kai mas lete ``perimenete ayrio'';

ANTWNAROS: Ti sas eipa; Me rwthse h ka Spyrakh an poinikopoieitai h ergasia. Ti sas apanthsa k. Gkoytzanh;

GKOYTZANHS: Einai aplo. Ena qema einai h polyqesia, poy endexomenws prepei na koitaxqei, ena allo qema einai oi argomisqies kai ena allo qema einai ta deontologika asymbibasta symfwna me thn ESHEA. Giati den ta leei ayta eyqews h kybernhsh na teleiwnoyme kai dhmioyrgoyntai skies;

ANTWNAROS: Me rwthse h ka Spyrakh an poinikopoioyntai oi ergasies kai apanthsa oxi. Eseis qesate alla qemata.

GKOYTZANHS: Den einai alla qemata. Einai ayta me bash ta opoia h kybernhsh anoigei ton dialogo.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe exete ena mpoysoyla; O k. Roysopoylos einai yper twn dhmosiografwn, na lysei to problhma ayto poy exei prokycei;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws.

SIDERHS: Apla na symplhrwsw kati epeidh milhse grhgora h ka Spyrakh, poy eipate ``poy mpleketai h politeia''. H politeia empleketai giati ginetai politikh ejyphrethsh metajy dhmosiografwn poy exoyn tetoies etaireies kai pairnoyn polla lefta kai twn armodiwn politikwn paragontwn h twn megalostelexwn ths dhmosias dioikhshs.

ANTWNAROS: Me rwthsate an h kybernhsh qa dhmosieysei ton katalogo twn metoxwn aytwn twn etaireiwn stis opoies anafereste.

SIDERHS: Oxi an qa dhmosieysei. Na ta mazecei kai na ta dwsei sthn ESHEA.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa oti h kybernhsh den threi metoxologio etaireiwn. Den einai ayth h doyleia ths.

SIDERHS: Gia to basiko metoxo giati zhtate se alles etaireies poy kanoyn doyleies me to dhmosio; Kai aytoi stoys opoioys anaferomai doyleies me to dhmosio kanoyn.

ANTWNAROS: Ep` aytoy yparxei nomoqetikh ryqmish.

SIDERHS: Me dikh sas prwtoboylia. Kala kanate. Giati den to synexizete kai stis en logw etaireies;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den prokeitai na anakoinwsei ayth th stigmh oloys toys nomoys toys opoioys exei proqesh h skopeyei h sxediazei, kata th diarkeia ths tetraetoys qhteias ths.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Xqes to brady eixame mia krisimh synanthsh toy Proedroy ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias me ton k. Karamanlh. Syzhthsan to Kypriako problhma. Thn idia wra eixame parabiaseis toy enaerioy xwroy toy Aigaioy kai epishs episkech toy Arxistrathgoy toy Genikoy Epiteleioy toy Toyrkikoy Stratoy sthn Kypro, o opoios ekane kai mia dhlwsh aysthrh, oti den prokeitai na apoxwrhsei o Toyrkikos stratos apo thn Kypro. Ayta ola, dierwtwmai, syzhthqhkan sth xqesinh synanthsh kai synadoyn me thn entajiakh poreia ths Toyrkias;

Kai mia deyterh erwthsh: yparxei plhroforia oti sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, o k. Stylianidhs phre mia sygxarhthria epistolh apo ton ekproswpo twn Hnwmenwn Eqnwn gia thn prospaqeia poy exei kanei h Ellada kai h kybernhsh, gia to qema twn qymatwn sth Notioanatolikh Asia. Alhqeyei ayth h plhroforia;

ANTWNAROS: Oson afora sto Kypriako: Kai o Prwqypoyrgos k. Karamanlhs kai o Proedros ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias k. Papadopoylos, ekanan analytikes dhlwseis xqes, meta tis syzhthseis toys oi opoies opws jerete dihrkesan arketh wra. Anaferqhkan se ola ta shmeia twn syzhthsewn. Oi syzhthseis htan opws pantote egkardies, se pneyma stenhs synergasias. Ejetasthkan qemata, ta opoia aforoyn sth sxesh twn dyo xwrwn, tis sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn me thn E.E., kaqws kai alla qemata. Oi dyo kybernhseis diapistwsan oti kinoyntai sto idio mhkos kymatos. Qa synexisoyn tis diaboyleyseis toys sto idio pneyma stenhs synergasias to opoio eixan mexri twra.

Oson afora sto deytero erwthma sas: Yparxei pragmati ena mhnyma yposthrijh @ epistolh toy k. Gian Egkelant, bohqoy Genikoy Grammatea gia tis anqrwpistikes ypoqeseis kai syntonisth gia thn epeigoysa anqrwpistikh bohqeia pros ta qymata twn xwrwn opoy xtyphse to tsoynami. Sto mhnyma ayto ekqeiazetai, me idiaitera qerma logia, h syneisfora toy ellhnikoy laoy, o opoios prosefere aploxera thn yposthrijh toy stis perioxes poy eplhghsan apo thn katastrofh. H ellhnikh kybernhsh apedeije th dynatothta ths na diadramatisei enan isxyro rolo sthn pagkosmia anqrwpistikh synergasia. Synexizei to mhnyma: ``Olocyxa enqarrynoyme th synexish ths symmetoxhs ths sth sygkekrimenh alla kai se alles anqrwpistikes epixeirhseis se ola ta plath kai mhkh ths ghs''. To mhnyma to opoio m` ayto to qermo pneyma @ ap` oti plhroforoymai @ den exei apeyqynqei se allh xwra, asfalws antanakla kai katagrafei thn poly ayqormhth symmetoxh toy ellhnikoy laoy, twn Ellhnwn politwn, sth bohqeia poy doqhke pros toys polites twn xwrwn poy ypesthsan thn katastrofh. Kai opws gnwrizete oi prospaqeies aytes synexizontai. Olo kai perissoteroi anqrwpoi qeloyn na bohqhsoyn.

BLAXOS: Ti exei allajei apo thn epoxh poy o k. Karamanlhs ws arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs egkaloyse ton k. Shmith giati den eskybe panw sta problhmata twn agrotwn kai den asxoleito proswpika me thn epilysh toys, me to shmera poy o k. Karamanlhs arneitai na toys dei; Kai deyteron, qelw na moy sxoliasete thn episkech to Sabbato, stis perioxes poy yparxei h agrotikh anataraxh, toy k. G. Papandreoy.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws asxoleitai o Prwqypoyrgos k. Karamanlhs me ta agrotika qemata. Alla, to dialogo me toys agrotes, sto plaisio ths kybernhtikhs politikhs, ton kanei o armodios Ypoyrgos, o k. Mpasiakos. O dialogos aytos einai diarkhs. Oi qeseis ths kybernhshs einai jekaqares. H kybernhsh den exei @ to epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora @ thn proqesh kai oyte prokeitai na paranomhsei. Oi elegxoi poy synexizontai kai oi epanelegxoi poy diejagontai -gia prwth fora fetos meta apo deka xronia- apodidoyn dioti apokalyptontai prajeis paratypias. Apotelesma de aytwn twn apokalycewn einai h ayjhsh ths telikhs epidothshs poy qa doqei fetos stoys agrotes. H politikh mas einai politikh sthrijhs twn pollwn kai oxi twn oligwn.

Oson afora sto deytero erwthma sas, den exw kanena sxolio.

PAPAGIANNHS: Gnwrizete gia thn prospaqeia anabaqmishs twn 218 toyrkikwn F16 apo thn Toyrkia; To exete ypoch sas;

ANTWNAROS: Gnwrizw tis dhmosiografikes plhrofories.

PAPAGIANNHS: Den einai mono dhmosiografikes plhrofories. Dhmosieythke kai ston toyrkiko Typo alla kai ston Balkaniko.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti gnwrizw tis dhmosiografikes plhrofories.

PAPAGIANNHS: Den fobaste eseis to endexomeno anatrophs aytwn twn aeroporikwn isorropiwn sto Aigaio;

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei logos na kindynologoyme. Sas diabebaiw pantws oti h xwra kai oi Enoples Dynameis ths einai ana pasa stigmh etoimes, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyn to opoiodhpote endexomeno.

BLAXOS: Pws einai etoimes na antimetwpisoyn kaqe endexomeno otan eseis omologeite oti h kybernhsh den exei kamia plhroforia to ti ginetai paraskhniaka h sta ypostega ths polemikhs aeroporias ths Toyrkias kai aplws ta maqainete apo toys dhmosiografoys; Mia xwra ypotiqetai oti exei kai alles phges plhroforhshs kai prolabainei diafora pragmata poy mporoyn na apoboyn moiraia gia thn idia. Perimenete toys dhmosiografoys na sas bohqhsoyne;

ANTWNAROS: Rwthqhka apo to synadelfo sas an exw ypoch moy tis sygkekrimenes plhrofories. Apanthsa oti exw ypoch moy tis sygkekrimenes dhmosiografikes plhrofories poy anegrafhsan ston Typo. Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti, ws Ekproswpos ths kybernhshs kai melos toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos, einai fysiko na exw kai alles plhrofories. Par` ola tayta epimenw s` ayto to opoio sas eipa: H kybernhsh, oi Enoples Dynameis, h xwra mas, ana pasa stigmh einai etoimes kai se qesh na antimetwpisoyn kaqe endexomeno. Alla den einai wra gia kindynologies.

GALIATSATOS: Epeidh to lete ayto kai xwris diaqesh kamias kindynologias, qa hqela na rwthsw, anhsyxei h xwra mas gia qermo epeisodio me thn Toyrkia;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa oti den yparxei kamia bash gia kindynologia.

SIDERHS: Syzhthsan o Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos kai o Kyprios Proedros ti qa prajoyn ean h Toyrkia den epekteinei thn telwneiakh ths enwsh sto qema ``Kypros'', me ton opoio tropo h diadikasia;

ANTWNAROS: Egine antallagh apocewn. Opws gnwrizete, ston politiko kai diplwmatiko dialogo syzhtoyntai para polla qemata. Einai akoma makrys o dromos mexri ekei. Opws exoyme pei kai alles fores, th symperifora ths Toyrkias thn exoyn sto mikroskopio kai alles 23 xwres, pera apo thn Ellada kai thn Kypro.

SPYRAKH: Plhrofories apo to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs anaferoyn oti o Prwqypoyrgos exei dwsei entolh se periptwsh poy oi agrotes proxwrhsoyn sthn parempodish ths kykloforias na mh dhmioyrghqei problhma h entash. Isxyoyn aytes oi plhrofories; Kai poio xarakthra qa exei h astynomikh parembash se mia tetoia periptwsh;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw ypoch moy tetoies plhrofories. As perimenoyme na doyme pws qa ejelixqoyn ta gegonota stis perioxes poy yparxei sygkentrwsh trakter kai qa krinoyme. As mhn prokatalambanoyme ta gegonota kai as mhn protrexoyme na fqasoyme se akraies katastaseis.

KWNSTANTIDHS: Exei lhjei h ypoqesh lyshs metajy agrotwn kai kybernhshs; Dhladh, oi syzhthseis synexizontai kai piqanotata tis epomenes hmeres na breqei lysh h exei kleisei to qema;

ANTWNAROS: Ginetai synexhs dialogos. Dialogos den einai mono oi synanthseis poy ginontai se ena sygkekrimeno plaisio h xwro. Yparxoyn kai sygxrona mesa epikoinwnias.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Qa metaferw edw thn erwthsh poy moy ekane enas odhgos

TAXI: Einai dynato mia xwra poy exei th dynatothta apo opoiadhpote pleyra, eite apo idiwtikoys foreis, eite apo to kratos, na stelnei 20 ekatommyria eyrw gia bohqeia stis plhgeises perioxes apo to tsoynami kai na exei en etei 2005 enapomeinantes anqrwpoys na katoikoyn sta konteiners twn Liosiwn, ths Petroypolhs kai twn ypoloipwn perioxwn poy exoyn plhgei apo to seismo toy 1999;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn ginei polla gia toys anqrwpoys poy eplhghsan apo tis katastrofes. Den yparxei kamia amfibolia oti mporei na ginoyn perissotera. Asfalws h Politeia qa kataballei oles ekeines tis prospaqeies poy xreiazontai gia na perioristei h talaipwria poy yfistantai aytoi oi anqrwpoi. Speydw na pw oti den prepei na sygkrinoyme dyo anomoia pragmata. Eipate oti sygkentrwqhke ena shmantiko xrhmatiko poso gia na apostalei sta qymata ths katastrofhs sth Notioanatolikh Asia. Ta posa ayta, opws gnwrizete, sygkentrwqhkan apo mikres eisfores Ellhnwn politwn, oi opoioi ebalan to xeri sthn tseph kai apo to ysterhma toys -epeidh etsi ekrinan kai poly kalws ekrinan- qelhsan na deijoyn oti yparxei mia genikh pagkosmia symparastash se ayto to poly makrino meros toy planhth, jeno pros to diko mas gewgrafiko xwro. Kaneis den toys anagkase, kaneis den toys ypoxrewse. Den mporoyme na sygkrinoyme to ena me to allo. Prokeitai gia mia katastrofh monadikh sthn istoria toy planhth mas. Briskw idiaitera ajiepaino ayto to opoio egine. Pisteyw oti kai eseis to epikroteite. Den mporoyme na sygkrinoyme diafora megeqh poy yparxoyn. Eimai sigoyros oti an kapote yphrxe kai mia anagkh sto eswteriko ths xwras, asfalws oi Ellhnes polites qa espeydan na bohqhsoyn toys sympolites toys, opws exoyn kanei kai sto prosfato parelqon.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Einai o ektos xronos sta konteiners.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa.

TSIODRAS: Qa hqela na rwthsw kati se sxesh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai thn ekqesh gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia, h opoia epishmainei, par` oles tis dhlwseis ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai toy Ypoyrgoy Oikonomias, para poly sobara problhmata se sxesh me to Asfalistiko, thn antagwnistikothta k.t.l. kai leei oti prepei na lhfqoyn prosfata metra. Poia einai ayta ta metra, ta opoia qa labei h ellhnikh kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: H ekqesh ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs poy qa dhmosiopoihqei shmera, symfwna me tis plhrofories mas, epibebaiwnei thn kakh katastash ths oikonomias poy paralabame.

TSIODRAS: Anaferetai sto 2004 kai to 2004 hsastan kybernhsh.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei labei shmantikes prwtoboylies, oi opoies anagnwrizontai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai qa labei perissoteres sto plaisio toy sxedioy poy yparxei gia thn oikonomia. Ena sxedio to opoio anaptyssetai mesa sto xrono, exei prooptikh kai qa ferei qetika kai monima apotelesmata. Xreiazetai, omws, synexeia, synepeia kai epimonh sthn efarmogh toy, wste na epiteyxqoyn oi kybernhtikoi stoxoi poy einai kai stoxoi oloklhrhs ths ellhnikhs koinwnias.

TSIODRAS: Otan lete oti qa labei perissotera metra, mporeite mhpws na proxwrhsete perissotero kai na mas peite se poia kateyqynsh qa kinoyntai ayta ta metra;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn anakoinwqei ta metra. Qa kinoyntai sto plaisio toy Proypologismoy.

TSIODRAS: Milhsate gia perissotera.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei labei metra kai qa labei, kata th diarkeia ths xronias, osa problepontai sto plaisio toy Proypologismoy. Ekeino poy metra ayth th stigmh einai h synepeia, oi jekaqaroi stoxoi kai h apolyth epimonh sthn efarmogh toy programmatos.

GKOYTZANHS: Sthn ekqesh ths Epitrophs, yparxei toylaxiston h systash oti qa prepei kai h ellhnikh kybernhsh na syzhthsei ta dyo qemata, to Asfalistiko kai to ergasiako. H kybernhsh skopeyei na kinhqei sto plaisio ayths ths systashs h oxi;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei o,ti eipa xqes.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes, ayto poy eipate einai oxi.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei akribws o,ti eipa xqes.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes, eipate oti ayto epafietai stoys koinwnikoys etairoys.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei o,ti akribws eipa xqes.

GKOYTZANHS : Egw to ermhneyw@

ANTWNAROS: H ermhneia einai dikh sas.

SPYRAKH: H politikh ths hpias prosarmoghs sthn oikonomia opws exei ejaggelqei apo ton Proypologismo, pisteyete oti mporei na einai antistoixh me ta metra poy zhta h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph sthn ekqesh ths;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme thn pepoiqhsh oti me ton Proypologismo poy exoyme chfisei, thn hpia prosarmogh poy exoyme anakoinwsei kai ton tropo me ton opoio qeloyme na efarmosoyme ayton ton Proypologismo, mporoyme na fqasoyme sto epiqymhto apotelesma.

TSIODRAS: Lete oti h ekqesh apotypwnei thn asxhmh katastash ths oikonomias, sthn opoia paralabate thn oikonomia. Epanalambanw oti prokeitai gia ekqesh, h opoia afora to 2004. Ennea mhnes toy 2004 kybernhsh htan h Nea Dhmokratia, den htan to PASOK.

ANTWNAROS: Kai exete thn entypwsh oti mesa se ennea mhnes mporei na anastrafei h kakodaimonia deka kai pleon etwn;

TSIODRAS: Na allajei, oxi. Kapoia metra ta opoia mporoyn na dromologhsoyn kapoia allh kateyqynsh, nai.

ANTWNAROS: As mhn sas qymisw thn apanthtikh epistolh poy esteile h Epitroph stoys treis prwtergates toy ``mageirematos'' twn ariqmwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Sxetika me to agrotiko: Eipate oti apo toys elegxoys kai epanelegxoys diapistwqhkan paratypies -eseis to lete ``paratypies'', kapoioi alloi to lene ``kompines''- kai ayto exei ws apotelesma na mporesoyn oi agrotes na paroyn kapoia xrhmata perissotera, meta thn apokatastash. Gi` aytes tis paratypies yparxoyn eyqynes h qa koykoylwqei pali kai qa pame parakatw.

ANTWNAROS: Yparxoyn peripoy 17.000 prajeis paratypias. Etsi legontai aytes, symfwna me ta prwtokolla poy exoyn katartistei. Ayta, opws anakoinwse kai o k. Mpasiakos xqes, anaferontai se diafora peristatika, eite diplokalliergeies, eite anyparkta xwrafia, eite dhlwseis gewrgikwn ektasewn megalyteres apo aytes poy pragmatika htan. Fysika aytoi oi agrotes poy exoyn kanei aytes tis paratypies den prokeitai na paroyn ta xrhmata poy diekdikoysan h diekdikoyn.

TSIODRAS: Ayto einai to ena skelos. Ypoqetw oti qa yphrxan ekei kapoioi kratikoi leitoyrgoi, oi opoioi eixan dexqei oles aytes tis dhlwseis poy ekanan oi agrotes. Se aytoys toys kratikoys leitoyrgoys yparxei kapoia eyqynh h oxi;

ANTWNAROS: As mhn xrhsimopoioyme biastika titloys h xarakthrismoys, opws ``kratikoi leitoyrgoi'' kai alla tetoia. Ayto to opoio proexei ayth th stigmh einai na diapistwqoyn oi paratypies, wste oi epidothseis na pane se ekeinoys toys agrotes poy pragmatika prepei na ta paroyn. Ayto sto opoio anafereste einai deytero stadio poy qa ereynhqei otan lhjei ayto to opoio exei apolyth proteraiothta ayth th stigmh. Ayto einai nomiko qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Den einai nomiko, einai qema oysias. Exoyme fqasei na kindyneyoyme na kopei sth mesh h xwra apo kapoies paratypies. Kai leme ``kala den peirazei, as cajoyme na broyme poioi agrotes phran perissotera@''

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa egw ``den peirazei;''. To qema einai na broyme poioi agrotes ekanan aytes tis paratypies.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi ``poioi agrotes''. Lew poioi dhmosioi ypallhloi, endexomenws.

ANTWNAROS: Sas epanalambanw oti einai shmantiko na diapistwqei poioi agrotes ekanan tis paratypies, endexomenws me thn anoxh tritwn proswpwn. Ekeino, omws, poy proexei einai na breqoyn kai na apomonwqoyn oi agrotes poy ekanan tis paratypies, wste na xrhmata poy qa doqoyn ston agrotiko kosmo qa fqasoyn se ayton. To allo qema einai nomikhs fysews. Den einai qema oysias.

XIDIROGLOY: Xqes h proxqes, yphrxe ena dhmosieyma twn @TIMES@ gia ena doryforo poy qa xrhsimopoihsei h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, prokeimenoy na diapistwnei akribws tetoioy eidoys apates apo toys agrotes, giati ap` o,ti fainetai ``oi paratypies'' -xrhsimopoiw thn ekfrash poy eipate- den einai monon ellhniko fainomeno. Giati eseis milhsate gia 17.000 prajeis paratypias. Gnwrizei h kybernhsh kati perissotero gi ayto to doryforo; Qa parakoloyqoyntai oi agrotes;

ANTWNAROS: Xrhsimopoihsa ton oro ``prajeis paratypias'' giati aytos xrhsimopoieitai stis epishmes anakoinwseis toy Ypoyrgeioy Gewrgikhs Anaptyjhs. Oson afora sto doryforo, exw diabasei sxetika dhmosieymata se jenes efhmerides. Den gnwrizw ean ayto ginetai me to legomeno systhma SRS, poy katagrafei tis ektaseis me tropo pio sygxrono apo palaiotera. Alla, prokeitai gia ena ypoqetiko kai texnikhs fysews qema gia to opoio den mporw na sas apanthsw. Kai den nomizw oti mporw na enhmerwqw amesa.

BLAXOS: H kybernhsh sygkinhqhke me thn anagnwsh toy katalogoy, to ti exei ginei se alles prwteyoyses poy diorganwsan Olympiakoys Agwnes kai me to ti den exei ginei se ayth th xwra;

ANTWNAROS: Se ayto to xwro exoyn ginei polla pragmata kai qa ginoyn akoma perissotera.

BLAXOS: Peite mas ena poy exei ginei gia toys Olympiakoys Agwnes prokeimenoy na ekmetalleyqei oikonomika h xwras mas tis egkatastaseis.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws den exete gnwsh olwn twn apofasewn

BLAXOS: Peite mas mia energeia poy exei ginei mexri shmera.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na anaferqw me leptomereies sto qema.

BLAXOS: Den jerete oyte eseis;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto ypoyrgeio Politismoy kai sthn etaireia Olympiaka Akinhta poy xeirizontai ayta ta qemata.

BLAXOS: Alla ws Ekproswpos prepei na jerete mia energeia poy exei ginei.

ANTWNAROS: Apeyqynqeite stoys armodioys foreis gia na diapistwsete poso polles energeies exoyn ginei. Synepws, den mporw na epilejw kapoia apo aytes.

SARANTAKOS: Pws h kybernhsh qa antimetwpisei to asymbibasto, to opoio yparxei symfwna me ton neo nomo, poy afora ton Proedro ths DEH, o opoios parallhla metexei kai sto Idryma ``Lilian Boydoyrh'' poy ekdidei thn efhmerida ``Eleyqeros Typos''.

ANTWNAROS: To erwthma sas exei apanthqei apo ton k. Palaiokrassa.

SARANTAKOS: Kalyce thn kybernhsh h apanthsh toy k. Palaiokrassa, ara den yparxei qema asymbibastoy.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa.

SARANTAKOS: Xqes, milwntas sto @MEGA CHANNEL@ h Proedros twn epityxontwn toy ASEP, poy kanoyn diamartyria ejw apo to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Dioikhshs tis teleytaies 100 hmeres, opws gnwrizete, kathggeile oti o k. Paylopoylos oyte kan exei synanthqei mazi toys, olo ayto to xroniko diasthma poy briskontai ejw apo thn porta toy grafeioy toy. Einai enhmerh h kybernhsh; Pws skepteste na lysete to qema;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite ston armodio Ypoyrgo k. Paylopoylo, o opoios -opws gnwrizete- exei syxnh epikoinwnia me toys dhmosiografoys.

SARANTAKOS: Se aytoys poy diamartyrontai den jerw ean einai diaqesimos;

ANTWNAROS: Me rwthsate gia ena eidiko qema kai sas parepemca ston armodio Ypoyrgo. Gnwrizw oti oi ryqmiseis poy yparxoyn gia toys symbasioyxoys einai safeis kai qa efarmostoyn.

Sas eyxaristw.

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