Greek Government Press Briefing, 01-04-25

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 25 Aprilioy 2001

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Gnwrizete oti to megalo qema poy apasxolei thn ellhnikh koinwnia einai to asfalistiko zhthma. H epishmh prosklhsh toy ypoyrgoy Ergasias den exei apeyqynqei akomh stoys epikefalhs, stoys ekproswpoys twn syndikalistikwn kai twn allwn koinwnikwn forewn. Otan apeyqynqei, epishmws, h prosklhsh ayth, asfalws qa klhqoyn na dwsoyn thn ypeyqynh apanthsh toys. H symmetoxh sto dialogo den einai mono dikaiwma. Einai kai ypoxrewsh. Einai ena dikaiwma poy oydeis mporei na apempolhsei, einai mia ypoxrewsh poy oydeis mporei na apofygei. Poly perissotero, otan oloi symfwnoyme oti apaitoyntai parembaseis gia th metarryqmish toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, otan oloi symfwnoyme oti aytes oi prwtoboylies prepei na analhfqoyn twra kai na mh metateqoyn xronika, otan oloi symfwnoyme stis basikes arxes poy prepei na diepoyn kai na xarakthrizoyn kaqe metarryqmistikh prwtoboylia, otan oloi symfwnoyme oti o dialogos einai h monh diadikasia, o orqos tropos gia na odhghqoyme se ena apotelesma. Se teleytaia analysh, h ajia toy dialogoy einai profanhs. Den afora ena problhma, den afora mono to asfalistiko zhthma. Afora ton tropo me ton opoio leitoyrgei mia koinwnia poy einai dhmokratikh. Me ayth thn ennoia pisteyoyme oti, para to oti fainetai na yparxei apoklish oson afora thn proseggish kai tis prowqoymenes idees kai protaseis, qa doqei sto plaisio toy dialogoy h dynatothta synqeshs olwn twn protasewn kai apocewn, prokeimenoy na prokycei to aristo apotelesma.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

ARGYROS: Ejetazei h kybernhsh thn protash na anablhqei o dialogos gia dyo mhnes, na doqoyn ta stoixeia ths meleths twn Bretanwn kai na arxisei syzhthsh epi ths oysias to Septembrio. Mporeite na mas sxoliasete tis xqesines dhlwseis toy k. Polyzwgopoyloy,, oti me ayta poy kanoyn oi dyo ypoyrgoi, brizei to PASOK olh h koinwnia;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola, qa moy epitrecete na pw oti den hsastan parontes sth synedriash, ara den gnwrizete ti eipwqhke h pws akribws eipwqhke ayto poy eipwqhke. Deyteron, gnwrizete poly kala oti o k. Polyzwgopoylos ws proedros ths GSEE -exei, malista, prosfatws epaneklegei sth qesh ayth- exei endiaferon kai eyaisqhsia -ayto einai apodedeigmeno- na yperaspistei ta symferonta kai tis qeseis twn sympolitwn mas toys opoioys ekproswpei. Einai sebastes oles oi apoceis. Ayto to opoio emeis zhtoyme einai toyto: Oxi kapoios na allajei tis apoceis toy, alla kaqenas na parei meros se ayth th diadikasia dialogoy, prokeimenoy ekei na kataqesei tis apoceis toy kai na tekmhriwsei tis protaseis toy. Ayth, pisteyoyme, einai h katalytikh meqodos, gia na odhghqoyme se ena apotelesma. Giati oloi antilambanontai oti to qema einai krisimo kai apaiteitai na prokycei twra ena apotelesma.

Oson afora thn prwth erwthsh sas, prepei na pw oti kaqe protash poy katatiqetai sto trapezi toy dialogoy einai ej antikeimenoy mia qetikh symbolh. Emeis exoyme diatypwsei ena plaisio, giati xwris to xrhsimo yliko den mporei na yparjei dialogos. Apo ekei kai pera, to qema ayto, to asfalistiko systhma kai ta problhmata poy antimetwpizei, den exei prokycei aifnidiws. Afoy, loipon, einai dedomeno pws prepei grhgora na paroyme prwtoboylies, na mh metaqesoyme xronika, dhladh, tis prwtoboylies mas, einai anagkh na symbaloyme oloi, wste na arxisei o dialogos. Kaqenas exei tis dikes toy protaseis. Emeis den apokleioyme alles protaseis. Zhtoyme na yparxoyn alles protaseis. Alla, zhtoyme oi protaseis aytes na katateqoyn, prokeimenoy na apotelesoyn kai aytes xrhsimo yliko gia thn enarjh toy dialogoy.

KARELIAS: Mia parallagh aytwn poy eipate einai h protash poy diatypwnetai twra apo polles pleyres, qa elega, o dialogos na arxisei apo ayth thn perifhmh "mhdenikh bash". An ayto prokeitai na arei to diafainomeno adiejodo, to dexetai h kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Pisteyw oti syxna katafeygoyme se diafora sxhmata logoy, ta opoia den gnwrizw ean exoyn mia analoghs barythtas oysia, an exoyn dhladh ena analogo periexomeno. Emeis exoyme pei oti yparxei ena plaisio. Emeis zhtoyme ayto to plaisio na dieyrynqei, employtizomeno apo idees kai protaseis poy qa kataqesoyn kai oi alloi foreis. Oles oi idees kai oi protaseis antimetwpizontai se isotimh bash. Den yparxei prokrima. Den yparxei proapofasismeno. Den yparxei proapaitoymeno to opoio na synodeyei mia protash, mia idea, h opoia na brisketai se pleonektikh qesh, se sxesh me alles idees kai protaseis. Den qa prepei na pagideytoyme, na aixmalwtistoyme se diafora sxhmata logoy, gia logoys taktikhs h logoys entypwsewn, poy syxna xrhsimopoioyntai apo polles pleyres. Ayto poy exei shmasia einai na synyparjoyn sto trapezi toy dialogoy, oles oi skeceis, oles oi idees, oles oi protaseis poy mporei na yparxoyn, poy diatypwnontai gia to qema.

KARELIAS: An einai etsi opws ta lete eseis, an den yparxei problhma kai an h kybernhtikh protash, opws diatypwqhke, den exei kapoio probadisma, ti sas empodizei na peite ayto poy sas rwthsa, oti ``nai, o dialogos mporei na arxisei apo mhdenikh bash'', me dedomenh -einai allwste gnwsth- thn protash ths kybernhshs;

REPPAS: Sas lew oti se epipedo oysias, apo apoch synepeiwn, ayto einai kati poy prokyptei ek twn pragmatwn, otan oles oi protaseis exoyn katateqei se ena trapezi kai syzhtoyme ef olhs ths ylhs gi ayto to zhthma. Alla, qa einai aneyqyno gia mia kybernhsh h gia mia paratajh -an qelete- na mhn einai paroysa me kapoion ajona, kapoio plaisio qesewn. Kai kati akomh: Polles fores kathgoroymaste, otan kaloyme alloys se dialogo, oti toys kaloyme xwris na exoyme diatypwsei mia sygkekrimenh qesh. Otan diatypwnoyme sygkekrimenh qesh, dexomaste pali kritikh kai kathgoria, oti kaloyme se dialogo, enw exoyme hdh labei mia qesh. Antilambaneste, loipon, oti o dialogos prepei na einai eilikrinhs kai kalopistos. Enas eilikrinhs kai kalopistos dialogos odhgei sto symperasma oti oloi osoi symmetexoyn mporei na kataqesoyn tis apoceis toys kai oti oi apoceis toys exoyn thn idia ajia kai to idio baros me tis apoceis poy exei diatypwsei opoiosdhpote allos.

ANTYPAS: Exw na ypobalw treis erwthseis: Prwton, qa epanalabw thn erwthsh toy k. Argyroy, o opoios sas rwthse sygkekrimena, gia to endexomeno anabolhs dyo mhnwn sthn enarjh toy dialogoy. Ki eseis apanthsate oti kaqe protash prepei na exei qetikh symbolh.

REPPAS: Sto plaisio toy dialogoy.

ANTYPAS: Ennoeite kai thn protash anabolhs;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw sto plaisio toy dialogoy.

ANTYPAS: Syzhtate anabolh toy dialogoy;

REPPAS: Prwta ap ola, gnwrizete oti den exei apeyqynqei epishmws, me typiko tropo, h prosklhsh toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy. Qa anamenete na ginei ayto tis epomenes hmeres, opws apo thn arxh exoyme pei. Ola ayta ta qemata qa mporoyme na ta sxoliasoyme tote.

ANTYPAS: Deyteron, eipate prohgoymenws -apantwntas se erwthsh gia thn apostrofh toy k. Polyzwgopoyloy oti ``h koinwnia brizei to PASOK'' -pws o k. Polyzwgopoylos einai o Proedros ths GSEE kai exei thn eyaisqhsia kai yperaspizetai ta dikaiwmata twn politwn. H kybernhsh pws aisqanetai poy anagkazei ena melos...

REPPAS: Prwta ap ola, den dexqhka oti ayto poy apedwse ston k. Polyzwgopoylo o synadelfos sas, einai apolyta taytismeno me ayto poy apotelese qesh toy k. Polyzwgopoyloy. Ayto prepei na to dieykrinisoyme.

ANTYPAS: Den rwtw ayto. Gia th sygkekrimenh apostrofh ``exei thn eyaisqhsia na yperaspizei ta dikaiwmata twn politwn''. H kybernhsh pws aisqanetai poy anagkazei ena probeblhmeno melos toy kommatos poy thn sthrizei, na yperaspizetai ta dikaiwmata twn politwn; H kybernhsh ta idia den yperaspizei;

REPPAS: H yperaspish twn dikaiwmatwn twn politwn, einai kaqhkon poy exei kaqenas mas. Apo kei kai pera, den shmainei oti o kaqenas poy diatypwnei mia apoch exei to tekmhrio oti h dikh toy apoch einai h orqh. Egw den milhsa gia thn orqothta twn apocewn poy diatypwnei o k. Polyzwgopoylos. Milhsa gi ayto poy aisqanetai oti prepei na kanei, to opoio sebomai kai anagnwrizw apolytws. Alla, den exei sxesh to ena me to allo.

ANTYPAS: H trith erwthsh -kai oloklhrwnw- einai oti symfwna me plhrofories -an qelete apantate- sth shmerinh synedriash toy syntonistikoy ths Politikhs Grammateias ena melos toy E.G. eipe oti o Prwqypoyrgos eixe desmeyqei proeklogika gia anodo toy biotikoy epipedoy kai beltiwsh ths poiothtas zwhs kai twra milame gia ayjhsh toy orioy syntajiodothshs.

REPPAS: Gnwrizw to reportaz poy exete kanei gia to Meso sto opoio ergazeste. Prepei na sas pw oti h syzhthsh ayth exei ginei kat` epanalhch. Kai gnwrizete poly kala oti me thn politikh mas exoyme bohqhsei na beltiwqei to biotiko epipedo twn politwn sth xwras mas. Ayto, allwste, to anagnwrizoyn oloi. Oloi dieqnws miloyn gia to oikonomiko qayma ths xwras mas. Exoyme petyxei na beltiwsoyme toys deiktes, pragma to opoio exei amesh antapokrish kai sto epipedo ths kaqhmerinhs zwhs twn politwn. Ayto einai kati to opoio oydeis mporei na amfisbhthsei.

SOYGLERHS: Anhsyxei kaqoloy ton Prwqypoyrgo ayth h arnhsh twn syndikalistikwn organwsewn kai twn forewn na kaqisoyn sto trapezi twn diapragmateysewn;

REPPAS: Eipame oti ayth h diadikasia toy dialogoy einai h monh orqh, prokeimenoy na anazhthqei mia lysh, me th synqesh olwn twn apocewn. Kai eipa, kat` epanalhch, oti oydeis dikaioytai na gyrisei thn plath toy se mia tetoia protash. Sthn epomenh periodo, qa diatypwqei h sxetikh protash-proklhsh kai anamenoyme qetikh antidrash. Giati pisteyoyme oti mia qetikh antidrash einai apolyta symfwnh me ta symferonta twn ergazomenwn.

KAMPOYRGIANNH: Me thn apanthsh poy dwsate, den katalaba an h kybernhsh proserxetai sto dialogo apla me tis dikes sas protaseis h ean epimenei se plaisio dialogoy. Dioti milame gia dyo diaforetika pragmata.

REPPAS: Exoyme pei apo thn prwth mera oti h apofash poy elaban sthn koinh synedriash toys ta dyo organa, to kybernhtiko kai to kommatiko, apoteloyn ena plaisio poy einai kai to enaysma gia na jekinhsei kai na ejelixqei o dialogos. Diatypwsame, metajy twn allwn, thn kat` arxas protimhsh mas se mia qesh, legontas taytoxrona dia stomatos Prwqypoyrgoy oti eimaste etoimoi, anoiktoi se opoiadhpote epoikodomhtikh protash diatypwqei apo opoiadhpote allh pleyra. Ara, loipon, oles oi protaseis -epanalambanw- exoyn to idio pleonekthma: Na antimetwpizontai se isotimh bash. Ayto einai safes.

MPOTWNHS: Syzhta mesa se ayto to plaisio dialogoy h kybernhsh kai thn protash toy proedroy ths GSEE;

REPPAS: O dialogos poy qa jekinhsei -pisteyw kai elpizw na jekinhsei grhgora- qa dwsei th dynatothta se oles tis pleyres na diatypwsoyn tis apoceis toys. Shmasia exei na broyme mia lysh sto problhma kai oxi na epidiwkoyme na dhmioyrgoyme entypwseis. Giati gnwrizete oti gia orismena qemata, an qeteis sygkekrimenes erwthseis, einai gnwsto poia apanthsh qa labeis. Ara, edw paizoyme en oy paiktois.

SOYRMELIDHS: Xqes, o k. Tsoxatzopoylos anaferqhke se orismena stoixeia, se sxesh me tis diekdikhseis ths Toyrkias se baros ths Elladas. Qewreite oti einai kainoyrgia ayta ta stoixeia; Ephreazoyn tis ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis h apoteloyn sfairikh isorropia gia ta ellhno-toyrkika;

REPPAS: Kat` epanalhch, exoyme pei oti pragmatika exei beltiwqei to klima stis sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn. Den exoyme diatypwsei thn apoch oti h Toyrkia exei allajei ardhn thn ejwterikh politikh ths. Gi` ayto, allwste, pantote eipame oti paramenoyme se epagrypnhsh kai etoimothta na antimetwpisoyme opoiodhpote problhma proklhqei apo thn allh pleyra sto pedio twn kyriarxikwn dikaiwmatwn ths xwras mas. Emeis qewroyme oti o tropos me ton opoio ejelissontai oi ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis, kyriws meta apo tis ellhnikes prwtoboylies, deixnei to dromo poy prepei na synexisoyme, prokeimenoy ayth h ejomalynsh twn ellhno-toyrkikwn sxesewn, me sebasmo twn Kanonwn toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy, na oloklhrwqei kai na einai plhrhs, wste na allajei h eikona sthn perioxh, na allajei apolytws to klima sthn perioxh. Kai apo to klima ths mh entashs, sto opoio mporei na pei kaneis oti briskomaste shmera, na pame sto klima ths synergasias. Pisteyw, loipon, oti h politikh poy akoloyqoyme ston tomea ayto einai orqh. Einai poly swstes oi epishmanseis toy YPEQA, gi` ayto allwste kai h politikh poy akoloyqoyme se aytoys toys tomeis kai idiaitera ston tomea ths eqnikhs amynas, exei labei ypoch ths ola ayta ta stoixeia, ola ayta ta dedomena kai einai orqh politikh.

MPEKAS: Qa yparjei kati kainoyrgio sthn epishmh prosklhsh pros toys foreis;

REPPAS: Exoyme milhsei arketa gia to zhthma ayto. To pneyma ths protashs mas periexetai sta osa exoyme pei, mexri shmera, gia to asfalistiko zhthma.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Egw qa epanelqw se mia erwthsh poy exei diatypwqei dyo fores, epitrecte moy. Qelw na rwthsw, ean h protash gia anabolh dyo mhnwn apo to dialogo, h enhmerwsh twn syndikalistwn gia ta stoixeia ths ereynas twn Bretanwn kai arxh toy dialogoy pali apo to Septembrh, einai ayth thn wra stis skeceis ths kybernhshs h an h kybernhsh ayto to qema, ayth thn protash thn blepei qetika.

REPPAS: Apanthsa se ayto to qema. Alla, gia na mh qewrhqei oti kati prospaqw na apofygw na pw, eimai poly sygkekrimenos: An jekinhsei o dialogos, sto plaisio aytoy toy dialogoy h kaqe pleyra poy symmetexei se ayton exei th dynatothta na pei thn apoch ths kai exei dikaiwma na zhthsei opoiodhpote stoixeio apo mia allh pleyra to opoio stoixeio qewrei oti ths einai xrhsimo kai aparaithto, prokeimenoy akomh kai na allajei thn apoch ths. O dialogos qa ginei me anesh xronoy. Afoy jekinhsei loipon o dialogos, yparxei ek twn pragmatwn ayth h dynatothta na antallagoyn stoixeia kai plhrofories, na doqoyn meletes kai ekqeseis apo th mia pleyra sthn allh, kai kaqws qa ejelissetai o dialogos qa ginei kai h analogh meleth, h analogh tekmhriwsh kai h analogh diatypwsh protasewn. Den empodizei to ena to allo. Gi` ayto lew oti polles fores aixmalwtizomaste se sxhmata logoy ta opoia den exoyn analoghs barythtas periexomeno. Shmasia exei na kaqisoyme se ena trapezi oloi oi endiaferomenoi kai na syzhthsoyme to qema. Apo ekei kai pera, qa exoyme thn anesh, toso apo diadikastikh, oso kai apo oysiastikh pleyra, na doyme to dialogo ayto me tetoio tropo, wste na odhghqoyme sto kalytero dynato apotelesma. Oxi na epikrathsei o enas enanti toy alloy. Oyte kapoios o opoios proserxetai me kapoia kat` arxhn protash, na epibalei thn protash ayth ston allon. Zhtoyme th synqesh. Gia na fqasoyme, omws, se ayth th synqesh, aparaithth einai h symmetoxh toy kaqenos mas se ayto to dialogo.

ANTYPAS: Sxetika me thn erwthsh toy k. Kampoyrakh, eixate pei nwritera, apantwntas se sxetikh erwthsh, oti "o dialogos poy qa jekinhsei, elpizw kai pisteyw grhgora". Den exei xronodiagramma h kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Den eipa ayth thn periodo, tis epomenes hmeres; Einai h tetarth fora poy to lew, shmera.

ANTYPAS: Epeidh legate "pisteyw kai elpizw".

REPPAS: Elpizw na antapokriqoyn qetika oi endiaferomenoi foreis.

ANTYPAS: Den yparxei xronodiagrama, den yparxei sxediasmos;

REPPAS: Ti sxediasmos; Na sxediasoyme emeis pws qa antidrasei h GSEE h h ADEDY sth dikh mas prosklhsh; Einai ligo dyskolo ayto!

ANTYPAS: Gia to pote qa thn kanete.

REPPAS: Sas eipa, tis epomenes hmeres kai to exw pei kat` epanalhch.

Sas eyxaristw.

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