Greek Government Press Briefing, 01-04-20

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 20 Aprilioy 2001

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Me endiaferon kai eyaisqhsia gia toys polites poy einai asfalismenoi se diaforoys organismoys, h kybernhsh syzhthse to Asfalistiko kai me th xqesinh dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy anoije tis diadikasies toy dhmosioy dialogoy, me th symmetoxh olwn twn endiaferomenwn forewn, wste meta thn antallagh apocewn kai th synqesh twn xrhsimwn kai epoikodomhtikwn protasewn, na odhghqoyme sto kalytero dynato apotelesma. Qa moy epitrecete, omws, na kanw kapoies epishmanseis:

Prwton, oloi anagnwrizoyn oti einai anagkaies oi allages gia th metarryqmish toy asfalistikoy systhmatos.

Deyteron, oloi dexontai oti aytes oi allages qa prepei na ginoyn twra kai na mh metateqoyn xronika oi opoies prwtoboylies.

Triton, oloi dexontai oti oi prwtoboylies poy qa analhfqoyn qa prepei, toso oson afora th diadikasia poy qa akoloyqhqei, oso kai ws pros to apotelesma to opoio qa prokycei, na diapneontai kai na xarakthrizontai apo tis arxes ths koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs, ths allhleggyhs twn genewn kai ths dhmioyrgias enos klimatos asfaleias kai bebaiothtas gia kaqe polith, gia kaqe asfalismeno, gyrw apo ta qemata poy ton aforoyn, dhladh, gia to pote kai ti syntajh qa parei.

Tetarton, h diadikasia poy symfwnoyme oloi oti einai h pio endedeigmenh -kai mesw ths opoias qa prepei na fqasoyme sto epidiwkomeno apotelesma- den einai allh, para o gonimos, oysiastikos, eilikrinhs kai kalopistos dialogos. Kaqe pleyra, loipon, sto plaisio aytoy toy dialogoy, kaleitai na anadeijei ta epixeirhmata kai tis protaseis ths giati pisteyoyme oti oloi endiaferontai na prokycei to kalytero dynato apotelesma.

H kybernhsh pisteyei oti ola ayta apoteloyn to stereo edafos, prokeimenoy ayth h koinh prospaqeia na jekinhsei, na ejelixqei kai na oloklhrwqei. H kybernhsh exei anadeijei orismenoys basikoys ajones, stoys opoioys anaferomai synoptika:

Paramenei o dhmosios xarakthras sto asfalistiko systhma ths xwras mas. Aporriptoyme kaqe morfh idiwtikopoihshs toy asfalistikoy systhmatos.

Den ayjanontai oi eisfores.

Den ayjanontai ta genika oria hlikias syntajiodothshs.

Me thn enopoihsh twn epimeroys asfalistikwn organismwn, dhmioyrgoyntai isxyroi asfalistikoi foreis, oi opoioi mporei na antimetwpisoyn ta problhmata toy mellontos.

Den qigontai wrima asfalistika dikaiwmata.

O dialogos pisteyoyme qa einai gonimos kai epoikodomhtikos. Gi` ayto dwsame sth dhmosiothta to synolo twn apocewn kai protasewn poy exoyn diatypwqei gia thn antimetwpish aytoy toy problhmatos. Pisteyoyme oti kommata, koinwnikoi foreis kai syndikata exoyn eyqynh na antapokriqoyn se ayth thn protash kai na symmetasxoyn sth diadikasia toy dialogoy, dinontas etsi -kaqenas apo th dikh toy pleyra- ton agwna kai th maxh, prokeimenoy na anadeixqoyn oi orqoteres apoceis, oi protaseis poy exoyn isxyrh tekmhriwsh kai odhgoyn sto epiqymhto apotelesma.

Einai gegonos oti to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras -kati analogo symbainei kai se alles xwres ths Eyrwphs- apaitei apo oloys mas na analaboyme twra prwtoboylies. Hrqe h wra, loipon, na baloyme ``ton daktylo epi ton typon twn hlwn''. H wra ayth einai wra eyqynhs. Ara, qa prepei na antimetwpisoyme ta diadikastika qemata me nhfalio dialogo, apofeygontas ta pyrotexnhmata.

Exoyme diatypwsei ypeyqyna th qesh mas. Pisteyoyme oti kai oi alloi foreis, idiws ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs, den qa akoloyqhsoyn to stereotypo dromo ``antipoliteysh gia thn antipoliteysh'', logw kekthmenhs antipoliteytikhs taxythtas, alla qa analaboyn tis eyqynes toys. Giati o ellhnikos laos, idiaiterws oi asfalismenoi polites, anamenoyn apo oloys mas oxi eykola synqhmata, alla protaseis poy odhgoyn sthn epiteyjh enos koinoy skopoy, poy einai h enisxysh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos ths xwras kai h antimetwpish twn opoiwn kindynwn egkymonoyntai gia thn poreia toy sto mellon, an shmera oligwrhsoyme kai den analaboyme tis sxetikes eyqynes.

Qa moy epitrecete, epishs, na anaferqw se ena allo qema, poy afora to diko mas tomea, twn MME. To Tmhma Anastolwn toy Symboylioy Epikrateias aperrice tis prosfyges endiaferomenwn forewn kai etsi den epetrece thn epanaleitoyrgia radiofwnikwn staqmwn sto nomo Attikhs. To StE dexqhke oti gia logoys dhmosioy symferontos ginetai dekth h qesh ths Dioikhshs, afoy den prokyptei oti mporei na leitoyrgoyn panw apo 28 radiofwnikoi staqmoi sto nomo Attikhs, xwris na yparxei kindynos parembolwn sta radiobohqhmata ths YPA. Dexetai oti h qesh ths Dioikhshs, etsi opws exei diatypwqei, paramenei isxyrh, diatypwnontas parathrhseis gia ton tropo poy elhfqh h sxetikh apofash epi ths oysias apo to ESR. Einai mia qesh poy exw polles fores epanalabei. Xarin ths polyfwnias, h opoia apotelei kai syntagmatikh arxh, epitrecame th leitoyrgia ekeinoy toy ariqmoy twn radiofwnikwn staqmwn poy einai texnikws efikto na leitoyrgoyn sto nomo Attikhs, xwris na dhmioyrgoyntai kindynoi parembolwn, dhladh, kindynoi gia thn asfaleia twn pthsewn. H qesh toy Tmhmatos Anastolwn toy StE, taytizetai apolytws me ayth thn paradoxh. Oti, dhladh, den mporei na leitoyrgoyn perissoteroi apo 28 radiofwnikoi staqmoi sto nomo Attikhs. An sto mellon to StE apofasisei na kleisoyn oi oktw staqmoi -peran twn 20 poy exoyn adeia- qa prepei tote na antimetwpisoyme to qema ayto, giati panta emeis qeloyme na kinoymaste sto plaisio twn apofasewn poy ekdidoyn ta armodia organa toy kratoys, poly perissotero, otan milame gia to anwtato dikasthrio toy kratoys. Tetoio qema, omws, twra den teqhke. Ayto poy exoyme ws dedomeno kai apotelei th bash gia thn opoia syzhthsh einai toyto: Oi prosfeygontes foreis exasan ayth th dikastikh maxh, aporrifqhke h aithsh toys kai den epitraphke h leitoyrgia twn sygkekrimenwn staqmwn.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

SOYRMELH: O Prwqypoyrgos xqes eipe oti den ayjanontai ta oria hlikias, pragma poy epanalabate kai eseis shmera, ta idia akribws eipe kai o k. Giannitshs. Wstoso, to keimeno toy ypoyrgeioy Ergasias mila gia orio hlikias ta 65 xronia. Telika poio einai to orio hlikias;

REPPAS: To geniko orio hlikias einai to 65o etos. Kai epeidh, metajy twn allwn, stis protaseis poy periexontai se kapoies meletes, einai ki ekeinh poy odhgei sthn ayjhsh twn oriwn hlikias apo to 65o sto 67o h sto 70o etos, epilegoyme ekeinh th qesh symfwna me thn opoia den ayjanetai to geniko orio hlikias. Geniko orio hlikias qewreitai ayto poy synhqws pairnoyn syntajh oi asfalismenoi kai einai to 65o etos hlikias.

SOYRMELH: Twra htan to 62o , 63o.

REPPAS: Oxi, to geniko orio htan to 65o. Gia orismenes kathgories, omws, isxyan alla oria. Emeis pame sto geniko orio, to opoio den ayjanoyme me thn kat arxhn epilogh poy kanoyme, giati sas eipa oti exoyn protaqei kai alles lyseis, poy problepoyn thn ayjhsh twn eisforwn h thn ayjhsh twn genikwn oriwn hlikias. Sas eipa oti kapoia protash, metajy twn allwn, problepei na ayjhqei to orio hlikias sto 70o , kati poy emeis den dexomaste.

KARGOYDH: Epeidh h kybernhsh exei thn prwtoboylia gia thn prowqhsh toy dialogoy gia to asfalistiko, pws skopeyete diadikastika na meqodeysete to dialogo me ta alla kommata ths antipoliteyshs;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola exoyme dwsei -ki an den exei oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia syntoma qa oloklhrwqei- to synolo toy ylikoy, prokeimenoy na to exoyn sth diaqesh toys oloi oi foreis gia na to melethsoyn kai na mporoyn etsi na bgaloyn ta prwta symperasmata, me bash ta stoixeia poy apotypwnoyn thn katastash poy xarakthrizei to asfalistiko systhma sth xwra mas. Apo kei kai pera, h prosklhsh einai anoikth. To ypoyrgeio Ergasias qa meqodeysei kai qa systhmatopoihsei ton tropo me ton opoio oi koinwnikoi etairoi, oi foreis qa paroyn meros se ayth th diadikasia. Ayto einai kati poy qa jekinhsei syntoma me prosklhsh toy ypoyrgoy Ergasias. Kai sto plaisio aytoy toy dialogoy proserxomaste me tekmhriwmenes protaseis kai pisteyoyme na kanoyn to idio kai oi alloi foreis.

KARGOYDH: To ypoyrgeio Ergasias qa kalesei toys foreis kai ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs;

REPPAS: Prwth fora ginetai koinwnikos dialogos k. Kargoydh; Sas eipa oti ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs qa exoyn sth diaqesh toys ayto to yliko, qa diatypwsoyn tis apoceis toys kai bebaiws oi apoceis qa ajiologhqoyn. H kybernhsh exei th diaqesh kai th boylhsh na apodexqei protaseis, efoson aytes odhgoyn sto apotelesma poy oloi epiqymoyme.

ARGYROS: Epeidh, xqes, h kybernhsh anakoinwse perioristikes protaseis gia to asfalistiko, mhpws yparxei problhmatismos na epektaqei kai se alles morfes, dhladh, na brei tropoys na periorisei thn eisforodiafygh, na eggyhqei oti qa dwsei ta xrhmata poy xrwstaei sta asfalistika tameia h na eggyhqei stis newteres genies oti den qa allajei to 2010 h argotera, to asfalistiko systhma;.

REPPAS: Den prepei na syndeoyme -me ton tropo poy to kanete eseis kai den einai swsto apo diadikastikh apoch ayto- th syzhthsh gia to asfalistiko systhma me tis politikes se alloys tomeis. H antimetwpish ths eisforodiafyghs apotelei monimh merimna ths kybernhshs kai twn armodiwn yphresiwn. Ayto den einai kainoyrgio zhthma. Gnwrizete oti se ayto ton tomea exoyme petyxei shmantika apotelesmata, xwris bebaiws na exoyme lysei to problhma. Apo kei kai pera, to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras mas apaitei ayth thn wra na lhfqoyn prwtoboylies, pros thn kateyqynsh ths metarryqmishs toy. Ayto kanoyme twra. Ola ta alla ta antimetwpizoyme -opws kaname mexri twra kai me poly pio entatikh prospaqeia apo dw kai pera- prokeimenoy na fqasoyme sta analoga apotelesmata, dhladh, na pacei na yparxei h eisforodiafygh. Oson afora to qema twn apoqematikwn twn tameiwn, sto opoio estw kai emmesws anaferqhkate, qelw na sas pw oti ayto exei antimetwpistei edw kai arketa xronia. H leitoyrgia twn asfalistikwn tameiwn kai h ajiopoihsh twn apoqematikwn toys xarakthrise mia oloklhrh periodo kai ayto einai gegonos. Prepei, omws, na poyme oti ayto eixe kai agaqes synepeies gia thn anaptyjh ths xwras. Tetoio qema den yparxei twra. Pantws, epeidh akoygetai kai aytos o isxyrismos, den einai aytos o logos kai h aitia gia ta problhmata poy exoyn prokycei sth leitoyrgia toy asfalistikoy systhmatos ths xwras mas. O basikos logos, oxi o monos, alla o basikos einai akribws h dhmografikh kamch poy parathreitai sthn patrida mas. Allwste, o logos aytos se megalytero h mikrotero baqmo, exei ephreasei th leitoyrgia twn asfalistikwn systhmatwn kai stis alles xwres ths E.E. Gnwrizete oti kai alles xwres ths E.E. sxedon to synolo twn xwrwn, antimetwpizoyn paromoia problhmata kai oi kybernhseis toys analambanoyn shmantikes prwtoboylies ejorqologismoy h metarryqmisewn sto asfalistiko systhma ths xwras toys.

ARGYROS: Den moy apanthsate sto an mporei na doqei mia desmeysh, oti den qa xeiroterecei;

REPPAS: An pragmatika den analhfqoyn twra oi sygkekrimenes prwtoboylies, peripoy to 2010 to asfalistiko systhma qa paroysiasei terastia problhmata adynamias na antapokriqei stis ypoxrewseis toy apenanti stoys asfalismenoys. Pisteyoyme oti h prwtoboylia poy analambanoyme twra -etsi opws qa diamorfwqei h telikh qesh meta thn oloklhrwsh toy koinwnikoy dialogoy- dinei mia shmantikh anasa, enisxyei to asfalistiko systhma se shmantiko baqos xronoy. Se tetoio baqos xronoy, opoy mporeis na probleceis, pws qa exoyn tote ta pragmata. Ara, loipon, antimetwpizetai me ikanopoihtiko, apotelesmatiko tropo, to problhma poy oloi anagnwrizoyme oti shmera yfistatai. Kai ayto nomizw oti apo mono toy ta leei ola. H lysh poy prowqeitai kanei isxyro to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras mas se baqos xronoy. Poio baqos xronoy; To problepto baqos xronoy, ekeino gia to opoio mporeis na kaneis ektimhseis, meletes poy den qa einai ektos pragmatikothtas.

KWSTANTHS: Sto arxiko sas sxolio paroysiasate mia sxedon eidylliakh eikona, me ekfraseis opws: oloi symfwnoyn pws einai aparaithtes oi allages, enw xqes eidame oloi na diafwnoyn, ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs, oi syndikalistikoi foreis, akoma kai stelexh toy kybernwntos kommatos.

REPPAS: Ws pros to oti xreiazetai na ginei metarryqmish sto asfalistiko systhma diafwnei kaneis; Mporeite na moy peite poios;

KWSTANTHS: Oi pantes...to KKE.

REPPAS: Oi pantes h to KKE;

KWSTANTHS: Akoma kai sthn koinh synedriash toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy kai ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs ekfrasthkan diafwnies.

REPPAS: Diatypwqhke h apoch oti den xreiazetai na analhfqei h opoiadhpote prwtoboylia sthn kateyqynsh allagwn toy Asfalistikoy systhmatos; Den exete dikio, den einai etsi ta pragmata.

KWSTANTHS: ...sth filosofia genikotera twn allagwn

REPPAS: Epi ths oysias twn protasewn poy diatypwnontai, pragmati exei dhmioyrghqei mia -qa moy epitrecete na pw- isxyrh antipoliteysh. Dhladh, mia antiqesh se aytes tis protaseis apo polloys politikoys kai koinwnikoys foreis. Pisteyoyme oti eimaste sthn arxh ayths ths syzhthshs, h opoia den exei jekinhsei akomh. Sto dialogo poy qa ginei me anesh xronoy, wste o kaqenas na mporei na pei tis apoceis toy kai na symbalei sthn epoikodomhtikoterh lysh, qa prepei na tekmhriwsei tis protaseis toy. Oi asfalismenoi polites -idiaiterws aytoi poy toys aforoyn oi epikeimenes allages- qa exoyn th dynatothta na gnwrizoyn poios einai ekeinos poy diatypwnei tekmhriwmenes protaseis kai poios einai ekeinos poy apofeygei na analabei tis eyqynes toy arkoymenos se mia steira synqhmatologia, efoson ekdhlwqoyn kai tetoies symperifores, kai na bgalei ta symperasmata toy. Xairomaste na diatypwnontai tekmhriwmenes apoceis, apoceis poy exoyn logikh bash kai mporei na apotelesoyn ergaleio gia na odhghqoyme sto epiqymhto apotelesma. Dhladh, na enisxysoyme to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras mas poy oloi anagnwrizoyme oti antimetwpizei problhmata.

KWSTANTHS: Epeidh kai xqes yphrxan diforoymenes apoceis, telika yparxei katalhktikh hmeromhnia gia thn oloklhrwsh toy dialogoy, peran ths opoias den qa yparjei otidhpote allo kai h kybernhsh qa ferei to nomosxedio sth Boylh;

REPPAS: Exoyme pei, apo thn prwth stigmh, oti qa doqei anesh xronoy, wste oles oi apoceis na akoystoyn. Epiqymoyme th synqesh twn gonimwn apocewn. Alla, bebaiws, h syzhthsh gia th syzhthsh, para to oti exei apo monh ths mia ajia, den einai ayto to opoio epidiwkoyme. Emeis epidiwkoyme na yparxei enas systhmatikos, oysiastikos, eilikrinhs dialogos gia na odhghqoyme se apotelesma. H idia h ejelijh toy dialogoy qa prosdiorisei kai to xrono ston opoio qa oloklhrwqei kai qa termatistei aytos o dialogos. An pragmatika prokyptoyn qemata, ta opoia prepei na antimetwpisoyn oi syndialegomenoi foreis, tote o xronos qa einai anagkaios kai prepei na doqei, wste na parataqei ayth h syzhthsh. Kai an h syzhthsh exei wrimasei kai exei odhghsei se ena sygkekrimeno apotelesma, den xreiazetai peraiterw xronos. Ayto qa to antimetwpisoyme exontas dedomenh pleon thn empeiria, apo thn ejelijh aytoy toy koinwnikoy dialogoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti den prokeitai na ayjhqoyn oi eisfores apo toys ergazomenoys kai toys ergodotes. O ypoyrgos Ergasias, omws, xqes, eipe oti qa katarghqoyn oi koinwnikoi poroi kai efere san paradeigma to aggelioshmo, gia to 2003. Poios qa plhrwsei;

REPPAS: H syzhthsh gia toys koinwnikoys poroys einai ena xwristo kefalaio. H qesh mas einai -kai ayth thn protash diatypwse o Prwqypoyrgos sto plaisio ths xqesinhs dhlwshs toy- oti oi koinwnikoi poroi qa prepei na ajiopoihqoyn me tropo dikaio kai orqologiko. Ayto apotelei antikeimeno syzhthshs. Sto plaisio toy koinwnikoy dialogoy qa akoysoyme tis apoceis twn forewn poy symmetexoyn se ayto ton koinwniko dialogo kai qa katalhjoyme se mia qesh, poy eyxomaste na mas brei oloys symfwnoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, den qa katarghqoyn;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti epi twn dikwn mas hmerwn, epi ths ypoyrgias moy, proxwrhsame se tetoies ryqmiseis, wste diasfalisame thn apodosh aytoy toy koinwnikoy poroy sta dikaioyxa asfalistika tameia, poy antimetwpizan tote shmantika problhmata, enw twra einai oikonomika eyrwsta, logw ths dikhs mas nomoqetikhs prwtoboylias. To qema twn koinwnikwn porwn einai ena genikotero zhthma, den afora mono to aggelioshmo sto opoio anafereste eseis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Afora to asfalistiko, den qa syzhthqei;

REPPAS: Asfalws afora to asfalistiko. Kai epeidh akribws afora to asfalistiko kai h syzhthsh mas anaferetai stis allages, stis metarryqmiseis poy einai aparaithtes, qa prepei na syzhthqoyn oles oi ptyxes. Afoy kai ayto, loipon, opws swsta lete anaferetai kai sysxetizetai me to asfalistiko systhma, den mporei na einai ektos toy koinwnikoy dialogoy. Ola ta qemata poy aforoyn to asfalistiko systhma tiqentai sto trapezi pros syzhthsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Giannitshs milhse gia katarghsh kai efere kai paradeigma malista.

REPPAS: Ayto eipa, shmera, kai egw. Milhsame gia dikaih kai pio orqologikh xrhsimopoihsh twn koinwnikwn porwn. Oxi gia katarghsh toys. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh pisteyei oti enas ptyxioyxos poy qa bgalei panepisthmio, qa kanei kai metaptyxiaka, qa prolabei na parei syntajh;

REPPAS: Mhn eiste makabrios. Pisteyw oti oi dynatothtes poy exoyme se ayth thn wraia xwra na zoyme perissotera xronia, einai kati poly qetiko...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Enas giatros poy teleiwnei sta 35; Apo ton..."Agio Petro" qa parei!

REPPAS: Yparxei kai Agios Petros sthn Arkadia! Ayton na ton episkefqeite!

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai kati akoma. Ayto to asfalistiko, qa isxyei kai gia toys boyleytes;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti to sygkekrimeno asfalistiko systhma afora poly sygkekrimena tameia. Kai anaferetai se ayta. Den anaferetai -kai prepei na to poyme ayto- stoys boyleytes h sth Boylh poy exoyn ena allo kaqestws kai den anhkoyn se asfalistiko tameio.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, ejairoyntai oi boyleytes.

REPPAS: Den jerw pws to antimetwpizete eseis to qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eseis pws to antimetwpizete. Egw sas rwtw.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti oi boyleytes den diorizontai gia na askoyn ta kaqhkonta toys, to leitoyrghma toys gia 30 h 40 xronia. An apofasisete na diorizontai oi boyleytes kai epi 40 xronia na einai boyleytes, wste meta na pairnoyn syntajh, tote prepei na antimetwpistei alliws kai to qema. Alla, gnwrizete oti edw exoyme mia allh periptwsh kaqhkontwn kai armodiothtwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den eipa ayto. Mh moy bazete sto stoma moy logia poy den eipa. Ta oria hlikias, ta oria syntajiodothshs poy isxyoyn gia alloys, qa isxyoyn kai gia toys boyleytes;

REPPAS: Apanthsa, mhn epimenete. Kratame thn erwthsh sas, opws thn ypoballate, kai thn apanthsh moy opws thn edwsa.

MIXAHL: Poies eggyhseis yparxoyn apo thn pleyra sas oti to asfalistiko, h katalhjh toy dialogoy, o xronos mallon diarkeias toy dialogoy qa einai eparkhs; Giati koitajte ti symbainei: Yparxei mia dyspistia se o,ti afora toys foreis, me aitiologiko oti kai gia to ergasiako to idio egine. Gi` ayto kai den peiqontai, oyte apo th diabebaiwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, oyte apo esas, oyte apo ton k. Giannitsh, oti eiste ontws eilikrineis sto na qelete dialogo eparkh. Poies eggyhseis yparxoyn gi` ayto;

REPPAS: Xairomai giati me thn erwthsh sas qewreite dedomeno ayto to opoio kai egw lew oti oloi exoyn xreos na proselqoyn kai na laboyn meros se ayto ton koinwniko dialogo. Symfwnoyme oloi se ayto. Ekei, sto plaisio aytoy toy koinwnikoy dialogoy, kaqenas qa metrhqei kai qa kriqei. Prepei oloi, loipon, na symmetasxoyn ston koinwniko dialogo, na tekmhriwsoyn tis apoceis toys. Oi apoceis poy qa diatypwqoyn, qa ajiologhqoyn kai qa ajiopoihqoyn oles, prokeimenoy na fqasoyme sto apotelesma poy oloi epiqymoyme: Ena isxyro asfalistiko systhma sth xwra mas. Ara, loipon, den tiqetai tetoio qema. Kai se teleytaia analysh, gnwrizete poly kala oti th diadikasia toy koinwnikoy dialogoy emeis thn egkainiasame me ayto to dhmokratiko kai oysiastiko tropo, ta teleytaia xronia, sthn patrida mas. Prepei oi diadikasies aytes, poy einai symmetoxikes, dhmokratikes, na ajiopoihqoyn apo oloys toys foreis.

MIXAHL: Xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos, sth dhlwsh toy, eipe oti diasfalizetai h trimerhs xrhmatodothsh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos. Qelw na sas rwthsw, giati na sas pistecoyn oi ergazomenoi otan to kratos, afoy kai twra isxyei h trimerhs xrhmatodothsh, einai asynepes stis ypoxrewseis toy, se poly megalo baqmo kai oi ergodotes se ejisoy shmantiko baqmo asynepeis. Giati, loipon, na sas pistecei enas ergazomenos oti ontws twra eseis qa eiste synepeis, otan den to exete kanei tosa xronia;

REPPAS: Den qa prepei na taytizete to ena qema me to allo. Gnwrizete poly kala to ejhs: To kratos antapokrinetai stis ypoxrewseis toy. Opoies ypoxrewseis exei analabei to kratos, estw kai me kaqysterhsh, tis anagnwrizei. Kai se teleytaia analysh -ayto einai shmantiko kai ayto qelw na krathsete- gia na eisprajei o syntajioyxos th syntajh toy, eggyhths einai to kratos. Para ta opoia problhmata se diafora tameia, polla ek twn opoiwn einai elleimmatika -kapoia exoyn elleimmata gia diaforoys logoys, metajy twn opoiwn kai o sygkekrimenos- to kratos exei odhghsei pote sthn perikoph twn syntajewn h se adynamia katabolhs syntajewn se asfalismenoys; To kratos den einai ayto to opoio eggyatai pantote, se teleytaia analysh, thn katabolh twn syntajewn; Oloi oi syntajioyxoi den exoyn th syntajh toys; Giati, loipon, ayth h kindynologikh proseggish; Exei sterhqei kapoios th syntajh toy; Peite moy, sas parakalw.

MIXAHL: Oxi.

REPPAS: Oxi! Tote, loipon;

MIXAHL: Epeidh, omws, to kratos den einai diakekommeno, einai synexes, yphrjan epoxes poy efqase sto orio na th sterhqei. Qelw na pw, loipon, oti...

REPPAS: Gnwrizw oti h antipoliteysh -kapoies epoxes, tis opoies mporw na sas qymisw kai hmerologiaka-...

MIXAHL: Eseis kanate politikh to ' 91. Tote eixate kataggeilei thn asynepeia ths kybernhshs.

REPPAS: ...kindynologoyse kai elege oti "mexri to telos toy xronoy h kybernhsh -kai htan kybernhsh to PASOK- den qa mporei na plhrwsei toys misqoys, den qa mporei na plhrwsei tis syntajeis". Oydepote odhghqhkame se tetoio adiejodo. Pantote kai oi misqwtoi kai oi syntajioyxoi phran to misqo kai th syntajh poy dikaioyntan.

MIXAHL: Epitrecte moy na sas qesw ena-dyo erwthmata gia th deyterh parathrhsh poy kanate eisagwgikws. Giati anaferate mono ti leei to ena skelos ths apofashs toy StE;

REPPAS: Ayto einai to basiko skeptiko toy StE. Eseis, sto plaisio ths syzhthshs poy kanoyme edw, exete th dynatothta na anaferqeite se otidhpote allo kai na parete apanthsh.

MIXAHL: Ti apantate eseis, loipon, sth diatypwsh toy StE, oti "oi prajeis toy ypoyrgoy Typoy einai paranomes, kaqws exoyme plhmmelh aitiologia, afoy den briskoyn ereisma sto nomo kai den perigrafoyn me safhneia ta krithria, symfwna me ta opoia elaban adeia mono 28 staqmoi";

REPPAS: Me sygxwreite poly, kanete laqos.

Qa sas diabasw to synolo toy apospasmatos sto opoio anafereste:

"H ektimhsh ayth ths dioikhsews (s.s. peri dhmosioy symferontos) h opoia exei kat` ejoxhn texniko xarakthra, briskei ereisma se stoixeia toy fakeloy kai den klonizetai apo ta texnika stoixeia poy epikaleitai synafws o aitwn", epeidh anaferetai se kaqe aithsh xwrista.

"Kai toyto, dioti sta stoixeia ayta den bebaiwnetai, pantws, kata tropo safh, anendoiasto kai apallagmeno orwn kai proypoqesewn oti h anastolh ths ekteleshs ths prosballomenhs prajews, synepagomenh thn prosqhkh enos akomh radiofwnikoy staqmoy stoys 28 staqmoys, twn opoiwn h dioikhsh qewrei texnikws efikth th leitoyrgia, den prokeitai na prokalesei problhma sto diktyo epikoinwniwn toy neoy Dieqnoys Aerolimena Aqhnwn kai sthn asfaleia twn aerometaforwn".

"Oi idioi, allwste, logoi dhmosioy symferontos, staqmizomenoi me th blabh thn opoia isxyrizetai oti qa ypostei o aitwn apo thn amesh ektelesh ths prosballomenhs prajews (diakoph ths sygkekrimenhs epixeirhmatikhs drasthriothtas, synepagomenh apwleia qesews sthn agora, apwleia esodwn k.l.p.) kwlyoyn, kata th diatajh ths par. 6 toy arqroy 52 toy P.D. 18/89 thn apodoxh ths krinomenhs aithsews".

Aporriptetai, loipon, h aithsh poy eixe ypoblhqei. Kai ejhgeitai oti sthn apofash ayth odhgoyn:

"Logoi dhmosioy symferontos, asfaleias twn aerometaforwn kai apotrophs twn synafwn kindynwn, syndeomenoi amesa me thn prostasia ths anqrwpinhs zwhs".

Ayto einai kai to diko mas basiko skeptiko. To StE kanei ena sxolio, oson afora ta krithria ta opoia xrhsimopoihse to ESR, prokeimenoy na prokrinei oktw staqmoys enanti twn allwn, stoys opoioys epetrece na synexisoyn na leitoyrgoyn. Ayto einai to qema. Kai prepei na sas pw -to sxoliasa kai sthn arxh- oti emeis xarin ths polyfwnias poy einai syntagmatikh arxh, eipame pws prepei na epitrapei h leitoyrgia toy megistoy dynatoy ariqmoy radiofwnikwn staqmwn sto nomo Attikhs, poy einai texnikws efikto na leitoyrgoyn, xwris na dhmioyrgoyntai kindynoi parembolwn sta radiobohqhmata ths YPA. Oi 20 staqmoi lambanoyn adeia kai leitoyrgoyn me kaqestws prohgoymenhs adeias. Oi oktw staqmoi leitoyrgoyn ypo metabatiko kaqestws. Ara, loipon, den tiqetai qema na epanarxisei h leitoyrgia kapoiwn staqmwn, twn opoiwn h leitoyrgia diekoph. Mporei na pei to StE oti logw twn asafwn krithriwn poy xrhsimopoihqhkan gia thn epilogh twn oktw, isws prepei na stamathsoyn na leitoyrgoyn kai oi oktw. Ayto einai to apotelesma sto opoio mporei na fqasoyme. Einai endexomeno, den fqanoyme pantws se ayth th fash. Qa to antimetwpisoyme, loipon, thn katallhlh stigmh kai ypo to prisma ths apofashs poy qa labei to Anwtato Dioikhtiko Dikasthrio ths xwras.

MIXAHL: Yparxei ena lepto shmeio, omws. Kanenas endiaferomenos den mporei na prosfygei kata toy ESR. Qa prosfygei kata ths dikh sas prajhs.

REPPAS: Poly wraia. Symfwnoyme apolyta.

MIXAHL: Efoson, loipon, eseis egkrinate dia prajews sas, thn opoia prosballoyn sto StE oi endiaferomenoi, yioqethsate, loipon, kata to skeptiko toy StE, to skeptiko toy ESR, to opoio opws eipate "exei kapoia asafh krithria kai an tyxon fqasoyme se ena shmeio..." k.t.l. Ara, paranomws eseis dexqhkate ta asafh krithria. Giati eseis eiste dioikhsh, oxi to ESR. Ayth einai h lepth nomikh diafora poy sas afora kai thn parasiwpate. Ayth einai h diafora mas.

REPPAS: H apofash toy Tmhmatos Anastolwn toy StE aporriptei tis prosfyges kai den epitrepei stoys staqmoys na epanarxisoyn na leitoyrgoyn. Ayto einai to dedomeno. Xaqhke, dhladh, apo toys prosfeygontes h dikastikh maxh poy prokalesan. Ayth einai h alhqeia. Apo ekei kai pera, an logw aytoy toy shmeioy -einai ena apo ta polla shmeia, giati kata bash to skeptiko mas ginetai apolytws dekto- kapoia stigmh proklhqei mia apofash h opoia odhgei, ek twn pragmatwn, sth qesh na kleisoyn kai oi oktw staqmoi oi opoioi leitoyrgoyn ypo metabatiko kaqestws, qa to antimetwpisoyme ekeinh th stigmh. Alla, den tiqetai qema epanaleitoyrgias allwn staqmwn, peran twn 28. Ayto tonizw. Ara, loipon, tetoia prosdokia den dikaiologeitai. Kai ayto prepei na to kanete safes gia na mhn dinete thn entypwsh oti kapoioi mporei, me apofash toy StE, na epanarxisoyn na leitoyrgoyn.

MIXAHL: Me sygxwreite, giati pairnete mono ayth thn ekdoxh; Yparxei kai h allh ekdoxh. Kaneis den eipe "panw apo 28", dedomenoy oti to StE leei 28.

AIQOYSA: (Gelia).

REPPAS: H qymhdia kai to gelio twn synadelfwn sas einai h kalyterh apanthsh sta osa lete.

MIXAHL: Den me apasxolei ti kanoyn oi synadelfoi, k. Ypoyrge.

REPPAS: Apasxolei emena.

MIXAHL: Edw qetei o kaqenas o,ti qemata qelei kai pairnei tis apanthseis apo ton armodio ypoyrgo.

REPPAS: Bebaiws, oloi eiste eleyqeroi.

MIXAHL: Gi` ayto to logo, to poios gelaei kai to poso klaiei, einai diko toy qema. Ayto poy rwtw einai to ejhs: oti qema den tiqetai gia toys 28. Qema einai oti sas leei to StE "k. Ypoyrge Typoy, exete asafh krithria kai paranomhsate me plhmmelh aitiologia stoys oktw staqmoys". Ekei egkrinate thn eishghsh toy ESR.

REPPAS: Prwta apo ola, k. Mixahl, den lete thn alhqeia. Ceydeste otan lete oti oydeis eqese qema na leitoyrgoyn parapanw apo 28 radiofwnikoi staqmoi sto nomo Attikhs.

Prwton: Gnwrizete poly kala oti para polloi eqesan entona to qema na leitoyrgoyn perissoteroi apo 28 radiofwnikoi staqmoi. Ayto den ginetai dekto se kamia ekdoxh. Kai apo thn apofash ayth toy Tmhmatos Anastolwn toy StE einai safhs ayth h qesh.

Deyteron: Oson afora ta krithria ta opoia xrhsimopoihse to ESR, opoy ginetai ayth h epishmansh, prepei na sas pw oti h apofash toy ESR, to eixa dhlwsei ek twn proterwn oti me desmeyei kai gi` ayto thn yioqethsa. Mporoysan na einai opoioidhpote alloi oi oktw staqmoi stoys opoioys qa epitrepotan na leitoyrgoyn ypo metabatiko kaqestws. Egw eixa desmeyqei ek twn proterwn na dexqw thn opoia synqesh aytwn twn ariqmhtikws oktw radiofwnikwn staqmwn. Apo ekei kai pera, an qelete to ESR na einai pragmati mia anejarthth arxh, poly perissotero twra poy katoxyrwqhke syntagmatika h plhrhs armodiothta toy gia thn epopteia twn hlektronikwn MME, qa anagnwrisete oti ayto prepei na paijei to shmantiko rolo na pairnei tetoies apofaseis. An oi apofaseis toy ESR den mas einai eyxaristes kai tote to polyboloyme, antilambaneste pws den kanoyme mia politikh arxwn, alla h stash mas einai idiotelhs, elaynomenh apo sygkekrimena symferonta. Ta pragmata einai jekaqara: Prwton, h dikastikh diamaxh poy prokalesan kapoioi, xaqhke gi` aytoys poy thn prokalesan. Deyteron, den epitrepetai h epanaleitoyrgia staqmwn twn opoiwn eixe diakopei h leitoyrgia. Ayta einai ta dedomena. Ola t` alla -exoyn bebaia th shmasia toys- qa ta antimetwpisoyme sthn poreia twn pragmatwn. Qa prajoyme analogws. Giati emeis epiqymoyme na symmorfwqoyme me tis apofaseis twn Anwtatwn Dikasthriwn. Alla prepei th symmorfwsh ayth na th qeloyn kai oi endiaferomenoi epixeirhmatikoi foreis, oi opoioi symmorfoymenoi, twra, pros thn apofash toy Tmhmatos Anastolwn toy StE, qa prepei na synexisoyn na siwpoyn. Ayth einai h alhqeia.

ANTYPAS: Na epanelqw sto asfalistiko. Sta xronia poy prohghqhkan ths staqeropoihshs ths oikonomias kai toy eksygxronismoy ths, an qelete, eixame synhqisei na akoyme kai apo ta xeilh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, alla kai twn armodiwn ypoyrgwn dyo lejeis gia to asfalistiko: Antapodotikothta kai kefalaiopoihtiko systhma. Jerete ti egine me ayta ta dyo basika stoixeia mias asfalistikhs metarryqmishs;

REPPAS: Prwta apo ola gnwrizete poly kala, afoy anafereste se kata kairoys topoqethseis, oti h kybernhsh sthn prohgoymenh qhteia ths eixe pei pws meta to 2000 qa anoijoyme to megalo paketo -opws xarakthristika eixame pei tote- toy asfalistikoy zhthmatos. Tote, phrame apofaseis gia to legomeno mini asfalistiko, to mikro paketo toy asfalistikoy. Hrqe h wra twra, na antimetwpisoyme to qema, to opoio apo tote eixame pei oti apotelei megalo zhthma kai prepei na to antimetwpisoyme thn katallhlh stigmh. Ola ta alla stoixeia, metajy twn opoiwn kai ta sygkekrimena sta opoia anaferqhkate, qa apotelesoyn shmeia syzhthshs, prokeimenoy na fqasoyme sto kalytero dynato apotelesma. Alla gnwrizan oloi -den einai kati kainoyrgio, oydeis mporei na isxyristei oti aifnidiasthke- oti yparxei problhma sto asfalistiko systhma ths xwras. Oi arxes stis opoies anaferqhka, opws kai ta stoixeia sta opoia eseis anaferqhkate, asfalws lambanontai ypoch, giati prepei na isxyoyn, na ginontai sebasta. Den qa mpw se texnikes leptomereies.

ANTYPAS: Den einai texnikes leptomereies, einai arxes.

REPPAS: Kai gia to kefalopoihtiko xarakthra toy systhmatos, sto plaisio aytoy toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, kai ayto epitrepetai. Qelete na mpw se texnikes leptomereies; Na mpw. Nomizw, omws, oti den einai ths syzhthshs ayths, poy exei politiko xarakthra.

ANTYPAS: Ayto poy qelw na dieykrinisoyme einai to ejhs: Eipate dyo arxes, koinwnikh dikaiosynh kai allhleggyh.

REPPAS: Kai antapodotikothta. Den gnwrizete, shmera, oti kapoioi me xamhloteres eisfores, exoyn megalyterh syntajh apo alloys, poy kataballoyn ychloteres eisfores; Ayto den einai ena stoixeio anisothtas; Den to eqija ayto apo thn prwth mera; Den prepei na ta antimetwpisoyme ola ayta;

ANTYPAS: Ara, qa qigoyn ayta.

REPPAS: Den prepei na ta antimetwpisoyme ola ayta; Den einai stoixeio isothtas kai koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs na doyme kai ayta ta qemata, wste na ejorqologistei kai se ayth thn kateyqynsh to asfalistiko systhma ths xwras;

GKROSMAN: Se allo qema. Se pente meres lhgei to telesigrafo ths Pagkosmias Omospondias Podosfairoy, ths FIFA, sxetika me thn allagh twn nomwn peri ths emplokhs toy kratoys sto podosfairo. An kai efoson den prokeitai na allajei o nomos -poy den problepetai na allajei tis epomenes pente hmeres- shmainei ton apokleismo ths EPO apo oles tis dieqneis diorganwseis, to Pagkosmio Kypello, to Tsampions Ligk k.t.l. H qesh ths kybernhshs poia einai ep` aytoy;

REPPAS: Prwta apo ola, den eystaqei o isxyrismos peri parembasewn ths kybernhshs ston Aqlhtismo. To exoyme tonisei epaneilhmmenws ayto. Deyteron, o armodios ypoyrgos Politismoy exei apeyqynqei me epistolh toy sthn EPO, epeidh ayth einai synomilhths ths FIFA, kai thn kalei na labei qesh. Qa anamenoyme, loipon, thn ypeyqynh qesh ths EPO, poy pisteyoyme oti qa einai apolyta symfwnh, eyqygrammismenh kai se armonia me thn yperaspish twn symferontwn toy ellhnikoy Aqlhtismoy, eidikws toy ellhnikoy podosfairoy.

GKROSMAN: Pantws, den kalyptontai oi apaithseis ths FIFA, mexri to telesigrafo poy lhgei stis 25 toy mhnos.

REPPAS: H FIFA syzhta me thn EPO. Qa prepei, loipon, h EPO, apeyqynomenh sth FIFA, na yperaspistei to ellhniko podosfairo kai na dwsei tis deoyses apanthseis sth FIFA.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ligo prin anaxwrhsei apo thn Kypro o k. Tzem proebh se mia dhlwsh, h opoia dhmioyrghse entonoys problhmatismoys sthn kypriakh kybernhsh. Eipe oti an h kypriakh dhmokratia proxwrhsei sthn entajh ths sthn E.E., tote h Toyrkia qa antidrasei xwris oroys h oria. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

REPPAS: H Ellada exei jekaqarh qesh, th qesh ths E.E. Gnwrizete oti aytes kiolas tis hmeres -xqes, proxqes- exoyme kai pali thn epishmh topoqethsh shmantikwn paragontwn. H gallikh kybernhsh, o armodios Epitropos ths E.E., tonisan me tropo emfantiko oti h entajh ths Kyproy sthn E.E. den mporei na parempodistei apo thn endexomenh stasimothta poy parathreitai sthn anazhthsh lyshs sto kypriako problhma. Ara, loipon, qema parempodishs ths entajhs ths Kyproy sthn E.E. den tiqetai. Oi dhlwseis twn Toyrkwn ajiwmatoyxwn mporei na pei kaneis oti entassontai sto pedio twn skopimothtwn. Mporei na pei kaneis oti einai ws ena baqmo kai anamenomenes. Ayto pantws poy me sigoyria prepei na poyme einai pws einai dhlwseis poy antistrateyontai to symferon twn Toyrkokypriwn, oi opoioi sto shmantika megalo pososto toys epiqymoyn na entaxqoyn sthn E.E. Ayto einai fanero kai exei apodeixqei me diaforoys tropoys. Tetoioy eidoys dhlwseis pisteyw oti, afenos den exoyn kanena praktiko apotelesma, kamia synepeia, den dhmioyrgoyn problhmata sthn entajiakh poreia ths Kyproy kai afeteroy, mporei na pei kaneis, oti einai arnhtikes gia thn idia thn Toyrkia kai toys Toyrkokyprioys gia toys opoioys dhmioyrgoyntai problhmata. Oi idioi as merimnhsoyn na mh dhmioyrgoyn tetoia problhmata, giati einai dika toys problhmata. Den einai ths Dieqnoys Koinothtas.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, omws, tetoies dhlwseis den frassoyn thn epanenarjh toy dialogoy;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti o dialogos prepei na ginei sto plaisio toy OHE. Emeis me th qesh poy thrhsame, apodeixqhke twra poso dikio eixame, giati fanhke poios einai aytos poy arneitai na symbalei sthn anazhthsh lyshs toy Kypriakoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Meta ton Passarh, enas allos katadikasmenos, enas dolofonos o Papadopoylos apedrase. Yparxoyn eyqynes sto ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs, yparxei ypoyrgos ekei; Poios eyqynetai gi aytes tis apodraseis;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti o Swfronistikos Kwdikas problepei th diadikasia kai ton tropo me ton opoio xorhgoyntai adeies stoys kratoymenoys. Ejetazontai typikes kai oysiastikes proypoqeseis. Yparxoyn armodia organa se kaqe fylakh, poy lambanoyn th sxetikh apofash. Einai o Eisaggeleas poy epopteyei sth fylakh, einai o Dieyqynths ths fylakhs, einai o koinwnikos leitoyrgos. Gia to oti eixame ayth thn ejelijh me ton sygkekrimeno kratoymeno, exei diataxqei EDE, gia na doyme an ektimhqhkan swsta aytes oi typikes kai oysiastikes proypoqeseis, an synetrexan dhladh sto proswpo toy sygkekrimenoy kratoymenoy aytes oi proypoqeseis, wste na epitrepetai na toy xorhghqei adeia. Ayto einai to qema kai sas parakalw mhn perimenete apo ton ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs na apofasizei ekeinos gia kaqe kratoymeno poy zhta adeia gia thn egkrish h mh xorhghshs ths adeias ayths.

Sas eyxaristw poly.

Kalo Sabbatokyriako.

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