Greek Government Press Briefing, 11-04-18

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Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 18 Aprilioy 2011

Ariqmos Deltioy: 327557159

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(180411)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 18 Aprilioy 2011

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H kybernhsh paroysiase thn Paraskeyh to mesoproqesmo plaisio dhmosionomikhs strathgikhs. Ena realistiko ``odiko xarth'' me stoxo thn ejodo apo thn krish, thn anaptyjh kai thn koinwnikh synoxh.

To mesoproqesmo sxedio qetei ws prwto stoxo to noikokyrema twn dhmosiwn oikonomikwn. Mia prospaqeia poy hdh exei jekinhsei kai odhghse sta prwta shmantika apotelesmata.

As mhn jexname oti to 2010 kataferame th megalyterh meiwsh toy elleimmatos poy exei epiteyxqei pote, oxi mono sthn Ellada, alla se opoiadhpote allh xwra ths eyrwzwnhs, molis mesa se ena xrono.

H prospaqeia ayth den einai aytonohth, mono gia na bgei h xwra apo thn krish, alla kai gia thn apokatastash toy kyroys kai ths ajiopistias ths xwras kai thn epistrofh sthn anaptyjh.

H oikonomikh ejygiansh, to noikokyrema toy kratoys, h anakthsh ths ajiopistias mas einai aparaithtes proypoqeseis gia thn epanodo ths xwras se anaptyjiakh troxia.

To mesoproqesmo plaisio dhmosionomikhs strathgikhs, omws, den periorizetai sthn ejodo ths xwras apo thn krish h thn antimetwpish twn trexontwn dhmosionomikwn problhmatwn. Einai ena oloklhrwmeno, plhres sxedio me makropnoh prooptikh gia thn oikonomia, gia thn anaptyjh kai thn koinwnikh synoxh. Sxediazei strathgika, makropnoa, alla kai me eyelijia to oikonomiko anaptyjiako programma kai to koinwniko mellon ths xwras.

Oi megales tomes, oi diarqrwtikes allages kai oi metarryqmiseis poy exei anagkh h xwra tiqentai se ena oloklhrwmeno kai strathgiko programma me akribh stoxeysh, plhrh programmatismo kai ajiologhsimoys stoxoys.

Kaqista strathgiko kai programmatismeno stoxo to aithma twn diarqrwtikwn allagwn, me makropnoo, alla kai eyelikto sxediasmo.

Stoxos einai ena neo anaptyjiako montelo gia th xwra, etsi wste na ajiopoihqoyn oi terasties dynatothtes ths xwras gia to kalo twn politwn.

Allazei ton anaptyjiako prosanatolismo ths xwras. Apeleyqerwnei thn anaptyjh apo ta desma ths grafeiokratias, ths adiafaneias kai ths diafqoras. Enisxyei thn anaptyjh me sygkekrimena kai apotelesmatika ergaleia poy dynamwnoyn thn ygih, kainotoma kai ejwstrefh epixeirhmatikothta.

Telikos, alla kai parwn stoxos ayths ths prospaqeias einai h pragmatikh kai oysiastikh koinwnikh synoxh kai h proodos.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MPELEGRHS: Exete kapoio sxolio gia thn apoch toy prwhn Prwqypoyrgoy k. Shmith, gia anadiarqrwsh oso to dynaton syntomotera;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh epaneilhmmenws kai me ton pleon epishmo tropo, exei topoqethqei panw se ayto to qema. Exoyme pei oti h anadiarqrwsh qa einai epiblabhs gia th xwra mas. Ayto poy mas endiaferei twra einai na ylopoihsoyme toys stoxoys toys opoioys exoyme qesei kai to prohgoymeno xroniko diasthma, alla kai mesa apo ton ``odiko xarth''. Aytos einai o xarths gia thn ejodo apo thn krish, alla kai gia thn allagh ths xwras.

PAPPA: En toytois, h kybernhsh polles fores exei diamhnysei kai me esas, alla kai me ton ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn oti h dhmosia syzhthsh gia anadiarqrwsh blaptei. Ws ek toytoy, qa hqela na rwthsw, yparxei enoxlhsh apo thn parembash toy k. Shmith;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw, oti h kybernhsh exei topoqethqei. Ayto poy mas endiaferei, einai na exoyme, ws kybernhsh, mia ypeyqynh qesh, mia apoch, ennoeitai kai apofash. Giati h kybernhsh apofasizei kai oles tis apofaseis mas tis aitiologoyme.

SPANOY: To gegonos oti oi boyleytes toy PASOK, o enas meta ton allo, topoqetoyntai gia thn anadiarqrwsh, enw h kybernhsh epishmws leei oti h syzhthsh ayth einai blaptikh, den mas bohqaei na bgaloyme ena politiko symperasma, oti gia paradeigma oi boyleytes agnooyn to Megaro Majimoy;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh apofasizei. Oi boyleytes kanoyn th doyleia toys, ekfrazoyn tis apoceis toys kai tis protaseis toys. Alla, to shmantiko gia emas, einai na yparxei mia apofash, h opoia sthrizetai panw se pragmatika dedomena. Ta pragmatika dedomena einai, oti exoyme plhrh pepoiqhsh pws h anadiarqrwsh qa htan epizhmia gia ton topo. Apo th mia, exoyme logoys, stoixeia kai isxyrismoys panw s` ayto. Apo thn allh, exoyme to molis proxqes dhmosieymeno kai syzhthmeno sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, mesoproqesmo strathgiko sxedio, ton ``odiko xarth'', poy me thn plhrh ejeidikeysh toy, dinei isws gia prwth fora, meta apo para polla xronia, ena jekaqaro sxedio gia to pws qa poreytei h xwra, mesa apo megales diarqrwtikes allages. Ayta mas endiaferoyn kai ayta kanoyme. Oles oi ypoloipes syzhthseis den mas aforoyn. Exoyme stoxo, exoyme sygkekrimeno sxedio, poly sygkrothmeno kai h dhmosia syzhthsh qa prepei na peristrafei panw sthn ejeidikeysh aytoy toy mesoproqesmoy strathgikoy sxedioy.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh yphrxan kai xqes dhmosieymata sthn ``KAQHMERINH'' ths Kyriakhs kai shmera sthn ``ELEYQEROTYPIA'' oti oi sxetikes syzhthseis gia thn anadiarqrwsh exoyn jekinhsei sto paraskhnio. H kybernhsh diaceydei ayta ta dhmosieymata;

PETALWTHS: Ta diaceydoyme kai ta arnoymaste kathgorhmatika. H anadiarqrwsh den einai sth skech mas kai den mas afora. Mas afora na ylopoihsoyme kai na prosdiorisoyme ep` akribws, toys megaloys stoxoys poy qetoyme gia na katateqei to mesoproqesmo sxedio mexri tis 15 Maioy. Einai poly shmantiko. Ginontai megales diarqrwtikes allages, polles apo tis opoies qa eprepe na eixan ginei edw kai xronia. Kai an kapoies ap` aytes eixan ginei, prin apo kapoia xronia kai idiws sth diakybernhsh ths N.D., tote den qa fqaname s` ayto to shmeio poy fqasame.

PITTARAS: Akomh kai an diafwneite me tis apoceis toy k. Shmith, periqwria gia mia synanthsh toy k. Papandreoy me ton prwhn Prwqypoyrgo yparxoyn gia na syzhthsete ola ayta ta qemata;

PETALWTHS: Den tiqetai qema ``periqwrioy gia syzhthsh''. Einai poly eykolo na ginei. Alla, otan yparxei mia apoch poy den symbadizei me thn apoch ths kybernhshs, ennoeitai oti h apofash einai ths kybernhshs kai malista, me poly isxyropoihmenoys logoys, toys opoioys proballoyme pantoy.

PITTARAS: Wstoso, o k. Papandreoy exei hdh synanthqei me diaforoys paragontes, dieqneis oikonomologoys klp, oi opoioi exoyn ekfrasei isws xeiroteres apoceis gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Kai oxi mono ayto, exoyn ependysei kai sth xreokopia mas. Den mporw na katalabw, giati ayth h apostash;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei apostash. Den proekyce synanthsh. Den exoyme problhma me kanenan. Ekeino poy exoyme einai mia isxyrh pepoiqhsh thn opoia ekfrazoyme polles fores kaqe mera: Mia anadiarqrwsh den qa htan wfelimh gia th xwra. Exoyme toys logoys mas. Dhmosiopoioyme tis apoceis mas, ejhgoyme giati exoyme ayth th qesh. Fysika, ayth th qesh akoloyqoyme ws kyriarxh kybernhsh.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio ths Paraskeyhs, o ypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas, k. Benizelos, feretai na zhthse mia nea synedriash toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy gia na syzhthsete epi ths pragmatikhs oikonomias, protoy proxwrhsete sthn ylopoihsh toy mesoproqesmoy programmatos. Anarwtiemai, an mexri twra den syzhtate epi ths pragmatikhs oikonomias. Hqela na rwthsw, an ayth h synedriash qa ginei.

PETALWTHS: O k. Benizelos ekane mia topoqethsh panw sta zhthmata poy syzhthqhkan. Egw, ayto poy exw na pw shmera, einai oti oi syzhthseis poy eginan sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, qa ejeidikeytoyn mexri na katateqei plhrws kai ejeidikeymena to mesoproqesmo sxedio strathgikhs. Ennoeitai, fysika, oti qa ginoyn polles syzhthseis mexri ton plhrh prosdiorismo kai thn kataqesh aytoy toy mesoproqesmoy sxedioy sth Boylh.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate nwritera oti apo edw kai sto ejhs, mpoysoylas gia thn kybernhsh einai o odikos xarths poy problepetai sto mesoproqesmo programma. En toytois, sto proxqesino Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, eidame oti yphrjan arketes diafwnies ypoyrgwn, se ena apo ta basika ergaleia aytoy toy odikoy xarth, poy einai oi apokratikopoihseis.

PETALWTHS: Den yphrxan diafwnies. Yphrxan proseggiseis kai qeseis. Se ena toso shmantiko zhthma gia th xwra mas kai se allages oi opoies einai diarqrwtikes kai qa exoyn synepeies gia thn oikonomia mas, alimono an den yphrxe mia stoixeiwdhs syzhthsh. Alla, h ejeidikeysh olwn aytwn twn apokratikopoihsewn qa ginei sto xrono poy akoloyqei, mexri tis 15 Maioy, etsi wste na exoyme ena oristiko sxedio, me plhreis leptomereies gia to ti qa ginei me tis apokratikopoihseis. Einai ena shmantiko zhthma, poy safws epidexetai syzhthsh. Gi` ayto hrqe sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio me kapws pio genikeymeno tropo. H ejeidikeysh qa ginei opws orizoyn oi diadikasies.

MARAQIAS: H kybernhsh diaceydei kathgorhmatika kaqe endexomeno anadiarqrwshs me thn ennoia oti den proanaggelletai ena tetoio gegonos, opws synebaine palaiotera kai me ypotimhsh toy nomismatos;

PETALWTHS: Den einai stis skeceis mas, den einai stis apofaseis mas. Ayto einai jekaqaro. Apokleioyme thn anadiarqrwsh. Ayto poy exoyme na kanoyme, ayth th stigmh, einai na oristikopoihsoyme kai na ejeidikeysoyme ayto to mesoproqesmo strathgiko sxedio. Einai to sxedio, basei toy opoioy qa badisei h xwra mas, oxi mono sthn ejodo apo thn krish, alla kai stis megales allages poy xreiazontai. Giati to qema den einai mono na jeperasoyme ayth thn oikonomikh krish poy pername. To qema einai na qesoyme qemelia, na kanoyme ekeines tis allages poy qa qwrakisoyn th xwra mas kai den qa epitrecoyn na fqasoyme jana se ayto to shmeio. Gia mas, ayto einai to stoixhma, to opoio einai makroproqesmo. Ayto to stoixhma ylopoieitai mesa apo ayto ton mesoproqesmo strathgiko sxediasmo kai ejyphreteitai h epiteyjh twn stoxwn mas.

MARAQIAS: Apo thn prwth synedriash ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas, blepete na yparxei synainesh apo toys boyleytes toy kybernwntos kommatos; Giati mallon to klima htan arnhtiko kai entona kritiko, toylaxiston apenanti stis proqeseis ths kybernhshs apo dw kai pera.

PETALWTHS: Exoyme pei polles fores, oti h Koinoboyleytikh Omada syzhtaei kai ayto einai gia mas to ojygono ths politikhs zwhs. Oi diaforetikes proseggiseis einai dektes sto na yparxoyn, alla sto plaisio mias syzhthshs, mporei na akoystoyn kai diafores apoceis. H kybernhsh exei sygkekrimenh protash kai sygkekrimenh apofash. Apo ekei kai pera, oi boyleytes mporei na proteinoyn beltiwseis panw s` aytes tis protaseis. Fysika, aytes oi protaseis qa proxwrhsoyn, etsi wste epiteloys, na exoyme ena sxedio gia th xwra mas. Fysika, mesa se mia megalh Koinoboyleytikh Omada, opws einai toy PASOK, qa yparxoyn kai apoceis oi opoies diaforopoioyntai se orismena shmeia. Ayto, fysika, den empodizei se tipote na proxwrhsei h kybernhsh sthn apofash poy exei parei.

TZANNETATOS: Ap` o,ti katalabainw, ayto poy lete einai oti diaceydete kaqe endexomeno anadiarqrwshs kai lete oti qa proxwrhsete sto mesoproqesmo programma. Wstoso, para tis anakoinwseis twn basikwn kateyqynsewn apo ton idio ton Prwqypoyrgo, ta senaria anadiarqrwshs synexizontai. Eseis qewreite oti qa kataferete mesw toy mesoproqesmoy programmatos na jeperasete ayto to skopelo ths anadiarqrwshs; Kai pws;

PETALWTHS: Den asxoloymaste me thn anadiarqrwsh. Olo ayto to diasthma blepoyme na kykloforoyn senaria gia anadiarqrwsh, blepoyme omws kai apoceis oti mia anadiarqrwsh qa htan poly blaptikh gia th xwra mas, alla kai gia thn eyrwzwnh. Kai epeidh synhqisame mesa se enamish xrono, mias poly dyskolhs kai krisimhs periodoy, na akoygontai senaria ta opoia htan apo yperbolika mexri kai kakoproaireta, oles oi proseggiseis poy ginontai exoyn na kanoyn me thn ekfrash kapoiwn apocewn, analoga kai me to poios tis apeyqynei kai ti ejyphretei h kaqe proseggish. Emeis exoyme stoxeymenh protash kai apofash kai kinoymaste mono sto plaisio ayths ths apofashs, me opoiesdhpote, fysika, protaseis beltiwshs poy mporei na syzhthqoyn.

MIXAHL: Otan diabasate th synenteyjh Typoy toy k. Shmith, eseis kai o Prwqypoyrgos, mporeite na mas peite, poia entypwsh apokomisate; Oi apoceis toy htan kakoproairetes;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti kaneis den eipe kati tetoio.

MIXAHL: Entassontai s` ayth thn kathgoria twn kakoproairetwn senariwn;

PETALWTHS: Kaneis den qa mporoyse na isxyristei kati tetoio. O k. Shmiths yphrje Prwqypoyrgos ths xwras. Htan proedros toy PASOK. Ayth th stigmh, omws, yparxei mia kybernhsh poy exei diaforetikh apoch. Gi` ayto sas eipa oti yparxoyn polles protaseis kai polles proseggiseis. Ayto poy endiaferei emas einai na mporesoyme na proxwrhsoyme sthn ejeidikeysh kai sthn ylopoihsh twn stoxwn mas. Ws kybernhsh, exoyme isxyrh apofash kai panw s` ayth proxwrame : Aporriptoyme thn anadiarqrwsh.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe kai h kritikh poy arqrwqhke apo para polloys boyleytes toy PA.SO.K. sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada...

PETALWTHS: Apo posoys;

PAPPA: Milhsan arketoi.

PETALWTHS: Epeidh eipate apo para polloys.

PAPPA: Para polloi. Osoi milhsan htan epikritikoi, pantws. Exei kai ayto to endiaferon toy. H kritikh poy kata kyrio logo diatypwqhke, einai oti h kybernhsh den ta katafere kala, oson afora to mnhmonio kai toys stoxoys toy kai eidikotera th forodiafygh. Blepw sta shmerina dhmosieymata oti kai o k. Ntominik Stros-Kan, na leei to idio kai ston k. Papakwnstantinoy. Ti qa kanete me th forodiafygh kai en toiayth periptwsei, ayto poy leei kai o kosmos einai mh pairnete alla apo ta synhqh qymata, misqwtoys kai syntajioyxoys. Exei deyterh skech h kybernhsh gia to ti qa kanei me th forodiafygh;

PETALWTHS: O ``odikos xarths'' kai to Mesoproqesmo Strathgiko Sxedio einai akribws ayto poy meqodeyei kai thn patajh ths forodiafyghs kai thn isxyropoihsh twn foroeispraktikwn mhxanismwn, mesa apo sygkekrimena bhmata. Fysika, den yparxoyn qymata misqwtoi kai syntajioyxoi. Gi` ayto, akribws, lambanoyme kai tolmhres apofaseis, me diarqrwtikes allages, oi opoies einai kai to poly megalo meros aytoy toy mesoproqesmoy sxedioy. Ajiopoioyme th dhmosia perioysia se ola ta epipeda. Opoy yparxei strathgikos sxediasmos kratame to dhmosio elegxo, ennoeitai kai to management. Apo ekei kai pera, ola ayta ginontai, akribws gia na mh qigoyn misqwtoi, syntajioyxoi kai sympolites mas me xamhla kai mesaia eisodhmata. Ayto, akribws, diasfalizoyme, mesa apo to mesoproqesmo strathgiko sxedio, deixnontas kai to dromo ths anaptyjhs. H kritikh, opws eipate, einai qemith. Oi diaforetikes proseggiseis einai qemites. Fysika, kaneis den qa mporoyse na isxyristei oti mesa se ena toso dyskolo oikonomiko periballon kai me ena kratiko mhxanismo poy mesa apo dekaeties leitoyrgei me sygkekrimeno tropo, qa mporoyse na allajei o tropos ths patajhs ths forodiafyghs. Emeis lambanoyme nomoqetika metra. Hdh, briskomaste se kalo dromo, alla to na apodwsei h patajh ths forodiafyghs, mesa apo sygkekrimenoys mhxanismoys kai mesa apo sygkekrimenes leitoyrgies, safws kai den einai eykolo. Fysika, pairnei kapoio xrono, ton opoio gnwrizoyme. Den perimename, fysika, oti qa htan toso aplo kai eykolo na milame gia anyparkth pleon forodiafygh. Xreiazontai mhxanismoi, xreiazetai diaforetikh leitoyrgia toy kratikoy mhxanismoy. Xreiazetai empedwsh ths empistosynhs metajy politwn kai kratoys. Asfalws kai mia asfaleia stis synallages, etsi wste na mhn exoyme forodiafygh, apo edw kai pera. Kaneis den qa mporoyse na skefqei kati allo. Ayto, omws, ep` oydeni, den shmainei oti den petyxainoyme toys stoxoys mas. Den shmainei, ep` oydeni oti apetyxe h efarmogh toy mnhmonioy. Anefera kai prohgoymenws sthn eisagwgh moy, oti mesa sto 2010 periorisame toso poly to elleimma poy kamia xwra ths eyrwzwnhs den qa mporoyse kan na to skefqei. Oi stoxoi mas, akomh kai otan yparxoyn elleiceis sthn ylopoihsh toys, exoyn mia poly megalh apodotikothta. Mera me th mera, beltiwnoyme th leitoyrgia mas, qetontas kai kainoyrgioys stoxoys. Ayto, akribws, prospaqoyme na kanoyme.

PAPPA: Na rwthsw kai kati synafes; Poio einai to sxedio ths kybernhshs, oson afora thn taktopoihsh ayqairetwn, poy blepoyme polla dhmosieymata, ton teleytaio kairo.

PETALWTHS: Ta dhmosieymata ayta den isxyoyn, mexri na yparjoyn anakoinwseis, efoson yparjei apofash epi twn ayqairetwn.

PAPPA: Dhladh, lete oti mporei na allajei. Ayto lete, an katalabainw kala.

PETALWTHS: An yparjei apofash, qa anakoinwqei.

SPANOY: O Prwqypoyrgos enwpion toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy milhse gia kapoioys oi opoioi den qeloyn na ginoyn megales allages kai na proxwrhsei mprosta h xwra kai hqela na sas rwthsw ean anaferetai se politikes dynameis kai syndikata h kai se alloy eidoys kentra, as poyme oikonomika.

PETALWTHS: Einai dedomeno oti otan yparxei mia tetoia drash apo thn kybernhsh gia na allajei h xwra, na spasoyn oi paqogeneies dekaetiwn, qa yparxei kai antidrash. Einai alhqeia oti ayth thn antidrash thn perimename mono apo kapoioys poy exoyn symferonta. Dystyxws, thn antidrash ayth, th deixnei kai h N.D., apo thn opoia, malista, akoyme kai diafora perispoydasta kai poly ``filosofhmena'', oti ftaiei to PASOK poy den bgainoyme apo thn krish. Akoysame, malista, apo stelexos ths N.D. oti mesolabhse to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs sthn ka Merkel, prokeimenoy h kybernhsh na tyxei mias qetikhs antimetwpishs stis Synodoys Koryfhs ths 11hs kai ths 25hs Martioy, dhladh, pragmata ta opoia einai senaria episthmonikhs fantasias.

Emeis epiteloyme ergo qetontas eqnikoys stoxoys. Emeis doyleyoyme gia to mellon ths xwras mas. 'Oloi osoi exoyn diaforetikoys logoys eite doyleyontas mono gia to mellon toy kommatos toys eite gia to proswpiko toys mellon, apotelei qema toy pws oi idioi synaisqanontai to baros twn eyqynwn toys.

H alhqeia einai mia: Emeis proxwrame ston dromo poy exoyme xarajei. Kai qa qelame mexri kai twra na exoyme th synainesh twn politikwn kai twn koinwnikwn dynamewn. Qewroyme oti o ellhnikos laos mporei kai antilambanetai poioi deixnoyn wrimothta kai poioi deixnoyn isxyro aisqhma eyqynhs kai poioi deixnoyn akribws ta antiqeta. Kai s' ayto to shmeio kaqenas einai ypologos sthn krish toy ellhnikoy laoy, sthn krish kai sth skech twn politwn. Emeis, pantws, kanoyme th doyleia mas kai peran aytoy, eteron oyden.

MARAQIAS: Qa hqela na ypobalw mia paremferh erwthsh: H kybernhsh diablepei skopimothtes pisw ap' oles aytes tis plhrofories peri anadiarqrwshs kai an nai, poies einai aytes;

PETALWTHS: Emeis den qa mpoyme se logikes na caxnoyme giati kaqenas - ej oswn asxoloyntai- anaferetai se anadiarqrwsh. Emeis exoyme skech, exoyme protash, exoyme apofash, exoyme eqniko stoxo kai ayton ylopoioyme. 'Oles oi ypoloipes dhmosies syzhthseis, oi opoies den synadoyn me th dikh mas protash kai apofash, den mas aforoyn.

LASKARATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, prin apo ligo, o ekproswpos Typoy ths N.D. orise thn anadiarqrwsh ws to koyrema kai thn paysh plhrwmwn. Eipe oti h epimhkynsh kai h meiwsh toy epitokioy einai epanasxediasmos kai ayto einai qetiko, anadiarqrwsh ennooyme mono to koyrema. H kybernhsh, ws anadiarqrwsh, ennoei kai ayth mono to koyrema;

PETALWTHS: An katalaba kala, kanei protash h N.D. mesa ap' ayto, na mhn ginei anadiarqrwsh, alla na ginei epimhkynsh, giati den exoyme akoysei akomh tis protaseis ths N.D. Perimenoyme to peribohto Zappeio 2, mhpws kai yparjei kapoia sobarh protash na thn akoysoyme.

PAPPA: Epimhkynsh syzhtame;

PETALWTHS: Emeis den syzhtame tipote allo, ektos ap' ayta poy exoyme qesei sth dhmosia syzhthsh kai sth diaboyleysh. Syzhtame mono gia ton ``odiko xarth'' kai tipote allo. Ola ta alla den mas aforoyn.

LASKARATOS: H kybernhsh symmerizetai thn apoch oti anadiarqrwsh einai mono to koyrema h qewrei oti kai h epimhkynsh me peraiterw meiwsh epitokioy einai kai ayth anadiarqrwsh;

PETALWTHS: H qewrhtikh syzhthsh epi oswn legei kai anaferei o ekproswpos Typoy ths N.D., den mas afora. Emas, mas afora h syzhthsh panw s' ayta poy exei apofasisei h kybernhsh, na akoysoyme tis protaseis kai tis apoceis - an yparxoyn epiteloys ths N.D. - gia thn ejeidikeysh toy Mesoproqesmoy Sxedioy. Qewrhtikes syzhthseis kai analyseis epi allwn qematwn, den mas aforoyn. Den exoyme alles skeceis, den exoyme alles apofaseis peran aytwn poy aforoyn to Mesoproqesmo Sxedio. Ean h N.D. prospaqei na brei alloys tropoys na onomazei thn anadiarqrwsh me ton ena h me ton allo tropo, ti einai anadiarqrwsh kai ti den einai, ef' oson apofasisei kai h idia ti isxyei kai se qewrhtiko epipedo, as erqei na mas to proteinei. Emeis, omws, exoyme sygkekrimenh protash, sygkekrimenh apofash kai kamia skech den kanoyme gia otidhpote allo.

PIKOYLAS: Peran ths anadiarqrwshs, akoysthkan polles fwnes sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai gia anasxhmatismo ths kybernhshs. Me dedomeno oti to Mesoproqesmo Programma einai ena neo sklhro programma, ena neo mnhmonio - as to poyme etsi- me nea metra, qelw na mas peite ean eseis pisteyete oti h kybernhsh qa prepei na proxwrhsei se enan anasxhmatismo, dhladh na dhmioyrghsei mia nea kybernhsh, wste na antapokriqei sto dyskolo ergo, telos pantwn, toy Mesoproqesmoy. Sas eyxaristw.

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw gia pollosth fora oti oi mones skeceis mas kai h monh drash mas einai na mporesoyme na sxediasoyme me ton kalytero kai ton pleon ejeidikeymeno tropo, ylopoiwntas toys stoxoys toys opoioys qetoyme. Den exoyme xrono gia xasimo na skeftomaste otidhpote allo, na akoyme filologies kai parafilologies panw se diafora zhthmata. Yparxei isxyrh kybernhsh, h opoia sxediazei, programmatizei kai qa ylopoihsei ena isxyrotato programma, opws einai to Mesoproqesmo Strathgiko Sxedio, poy einai o  odikos xarths gia thn ejodo apo thn krish, alla kai gia thn anaptyjh apo edw kai pera ths xwras. Ayto einai to monadiko melhma ths kybernhshs. Ola ta alla einai syzhthseis poy ginontai edw kai enamish xrono, sto plaisio twn opoiwn exoyme akoysei terasties yperboles, apoceis, senaria episthmonikhs fantasias, poy den mas aforoyn. Oi stoxoi mas einai jekaqaroi. Doyleyoyme gia to mellon ths xwras panw se sygkekrimeno programma kai panw se sygkekrimeno sxedio, to opoio den einai programma sklhro me metra, einai programma poy mas bgazei apo thn krish kai mas phgainei mprosta ws xwra.

PIKOYLAS: Ep' aytoy: Twra, sto dia tayta. Epeidh eidame kai sto mnhmonio oti den exoyme piasei kapoioys stoxoys, exoyme ysterhsh esodwn, den exoyme piasei akribws to elleimma poy exoyme problecei, h kybernhsh den skeftetai na kanei to kybernhtiko ergo pio dynamiko me thn allagh, isws, toy oikonomikoy epiteleioy; Kai me thn eykairia na pw oti ef' oson pleon yparxei enas stoxos gia apokratikopoihseis, mhpws pleon h kybernhsh synaisqanetai oti prepei na dhmioyrghsei kai ena sygkekrimeno ypoyrgeio apokratikopoihsewn, wste na...

PETALWTHS: Sto plaisio toy anasxhmatismoy, ennoeite;(!)

PIKOYLAS: Kai sto plaisio toy Mesoproqesmoy, ef' oson to ena paketo einai apokratikopoihseis.

PETALWTHS: Anasxhmatismos den ginetai. Den syzhteitai kan. Den yparxei logos na ginei. Ayto poy yparxei logos na ginei einai na oristikopoihqei, na analyqei to programma mas, na apofasisqei to Mesoproqesmo kai na ylopoihqei to syntomotero dynato. Kai ayto qa ginei, fysika, giati hdh yparxei sxedio, yparxei stoxeysh, gia prwth fora, isws, meta apo polla xronia.

PAPPA: Den qa sas rwthsw gia anasxhmatismo, alla qelw na rwthsw kati paremferes.

PETALWTHS: Gia ekloges;

PAPPA: Oxi. Se kapoioys tomeis exoyme ysterhsh. Oi ypoyrgoi krinontai kai apo tis epidoseis toys;

PETALWTHS: H leitoyrgia ths kybernhshs einai sygkekrimenh. Stoys tomeis poy yparxei ysterhsh, den gnwrizw poioys tomeis ennoeite, ta stoixeia gia to elleimma poy rwthse o synadelfos sas prohgoymenws; Ti akribws ennoeite;

PAPPA: Fer' eipein gia th forodiafygh. Oi ypoyrgoi krinontai, loipon, gia tis epidoseis toys ston tomea eyqynhs toys;

PETALWTHS: Oloi krinomaste. Alla sta oikonomika, oi epidoseis poy yparxoyn, den eixan pote shmeiwqei sto parelqon. Ena terastio elleimma exei kalyfqei, prwtognwro gia ta ellhnika kai gia ta eyrwpaika dedomena. Ginetai mia doyleia prwtognwrh, me sygkekrimenes stoxeyseis, me apodotikothta kai me apodosh ergoy poy kaneis den qa mporoyse na to fantastei prin apo enamish xrono.

PITTARAS: Mporeite na mas peite kai na mas peisete kiolas, ayton ton odiko xarth, pws qa ton efarmosete, otan bgainei shmera o kentrikos trapeziths, o k. Probopoylos, sthn 'Ekqesh toy kai diapistwnei dysleitoyrgies sthn efarmogh twn metarryqmisewn kai distaktikothta apo to kratos;

PETALWTHS: Eida thn 'Ekqesh toy k. Probopoyloy. Den nomizw oti anaferei kati diaforetiko ap' ayto poy emeis leme se genikes grammes. Fysika, tis paqogeneies toy kratikoy mhxanismoy kai th leitoyrgia toy kratoys th gnwrizoyme. Gnwrizoyme, epishs, oti yparxoyn elleiceis tis opoies akribws me thn pollh doyleia prospaqoyme na beltiwsoyme. Fysika, mesa apo ton sxediasmo mas, prospaqoyme na beltiwsoyme kai tis paqogeneies pollwn dekaetiwn. Kai s' ayto to epipedo pisteyoyme oti h kybernhsh paragei ergo. 'Ergo to opoio fainetai toso apo toys stoxoys poy tiqentai, oso kai apo thn apodotikothta toys.

PITTARAS: Qelw na katalabw kati gia thn anadiarqrwsh. Einai epilogh dikh sas, ths kybernhshs na mhn pate se anadiarqrwsh h pisteyete oti akomh kai an mas epiblhqei logw ejwterikwn paragontwn den qa odhghqoyme ekei. Anaferomai stis dieqneis ejelijeis oi opoies profanws kai ephreazoyn ta gegonota. Gia paradeigma sthn Finlandia eidate ti exei ginei, yparxoyn oi Eyrwskeptikistes poy einai para poly isxyroi kai fainetai oti phgainoyn kai ston aera oles oi apofaseis ths E.E..

PETALWTHS: Ayth einai mia dhmosiografikh ektimhsh. Oi politikes ektimhseis ginontai. H anadiarqrwsh den einai stis skeceis mas, giati akribws einai apofash mas. Kai ayto einai apofash ths kybernhshs, giati pisteyoyme oti mia anadiarqrwsh qa htan epizhmia kai epiblabhs. Toys logoys toy epizhmioy toys exei analysei kata koron to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, o Prwqypoyrgos kai egw apo ayto to bhma.

MARAQIAS: 'Hqela na rwthsw, sto metwpo ths Kerateas exei yparjei ekexeiria. Ayto shmainei oti qa ginei o XYTY h oti den qa ginei.

PETALWTHS: Yparxei ypoxwrhsh apo to mploka kai qa yparjei peraiterw kai apoxwrhsh ths astynomias. Sto plaisio ths ylopoihshs toy ergoy programmatizetai na ginei enas dialogos gia leptomerh zhthmata kai einai poly qetiko oti yphrje mia tetoia ejelijh. Ejalloy emeis apo thn prwth stigmh hmastan yper toy dialogoy, hmastan yper ths metriopaqeias kai yper ths anagkaiothtas enos ergoy to opoio nomizw oti den mporei na amfisbhthqei apo kanenan pws xreiazetai na ginei, pera apo tis symbatikes mas desmeyseis me thn E.E. alla kai thn anagkh ylopoihshs aytoy toy ergoy.

PITTARAS: Ti einai ayto poy allaje shmera kai exoyme aythn thn ejelijh; Dhladh treis mhnes twra ti htan ayto poy den ginotan; Ti perimenate; Htan h emmonh kapoioy ypoyrgoy se mia sygkekrimenh strathgikh; Twra jafnika erxeste Megalh Deytera kai mas lete oti feygoyn apo ta mploka, apoxwroyn oi astynomikoi...

PETALWTHS: Ayto den to leme emeis. Einai apofash twn katoikwn oti qa prepei na yparjei enas dialogos - ki emeis, allwste, se dialogo toys kaloysame - kai feygontas apo ta mploka, feygoyn kai oi astynomikoi. To qema einai na ylopoihqei to ergo kata ton kalytero tropo. Den exei allajei tipote apo thn pleyra mas. Den yparxei kamia emmonh kanenos h opoia exei arqei, giati den yparxoyn emmones. Edw prokeitai gia politikes apofaseis, yparxei chfismenos nomos sth Boylh kai fysika aytes oi apofaseis ylopoioyntai.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kalo apogeyma. --1427249692-2141556501-1303145771=:7981--

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