Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-08-23

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 23 Aygoystoy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 285242108

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING (230810)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 23 Aygoystoy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Toys deka teleytaioys mhnes, h kybernhsh me systhmatikh, sklhrh kai meqodikh doyleia, prowqhse domikes allages poy den eixan ginei epi polles dekaeties sth xwra mas kai epefere shmantikes tomes sto kratos kai th leitoyrgia toy eyryteroy dhmosioy tomea. Se xrono rekor kai ypo idiaitera antijoes synqhkes proxwrhsame se rizikes allages se oloys toys tomeis.

Kataqesame ena dikaiotero forologiko systhma kai me plhqos elegxwn, epiteloys diwkontai oi parabates. Dhmioyrghsame ena biwsimo kai makropnoo asfalistiko systhma, poy eggyatai th biwsimothta twn Tameiwn kai telika th syntajh twn idiwn twn paidiwn mas. Prowqhsame to nomo gia to ASEP stis proslhceis toy Dhmosioy, bazontas telos sto pelateiako kaqestws poy epikrathse ta teleytaia xronia. Efarmozoyme ton ``KALLIKRATH'', th megalyterh dioikhtikh parembash kai metarryqmish poy frenarei tis alogistes dapanes sthn topikh aytodioikhsh kai noikokyreyei ta oikonomika ths perifereias, apodesmeyontas poroys gia toys polites.

To genikotero symmazema poy epiferoyme se ena spatalo, grafeiokratiko kai dyskinhto dhmosio tomea, h drastikh meiwsh twn dapanwn, apoteloyn parakataqhkh alla kai th megalyterh koinwnikh paroxh pros toys polites.

H asfaleia poy mas prosferei o mhxanismos sthrijhs, ton opoio emeis prokalesame me sklhrh kai epimonh prospaqeia, mas epitrepei, apallagmenoys pleon apo to daneiako agxos kai ta kerdoskopika paixnidia twn dieqnwn agorwn, na proxwrhsoyme se epomena bhmata poy einai shmera to kyriarxo zhtoymeno, dhladh, th dikaih kai biwsimh anaptyjh. Den mporoyme, omws, na petyxoyme thn anaptyjh me ena kratos adhfago kai spatalo, oyte me domes aphrxaiwmenes poy pasxoyn apo xronies paqogeneies.

Oi energeies mas gia th beltiwsh toy kratoys, energeies poy oloi syzhtoysame, oloi ciqyrizame, alla kaneis pote den eixe tolmhsei na tis epixeirhsei, qa dhmioyrghsoyn syntoma tis proypoqeseis ekeines alla kai to katallhlo periballon gia th biwsimh anaptyjh pros ofelos toy polith.

Jekiname, loipon, ena neo kyklo politikwn kai megalwn allagwn poy exoyn dromologhqei kai qa ejeidikeytoyn to epomeno diasthma me monadiko epikentro ton Ellhna polith kai stoxo thn anaptyjh me koinwnikh syneidhsh. Aytes oi politikes qa apotelesoyn kai to koinwniko mas sthrigma gia thn epomenh hmera kai qa odhghsoyn th xwra mas sto dromo ths diafaneias, ths proodoy kai ths orqhs anaptyjhs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MIXAHL: Exw dyo erwthseis kyrie Ekproswpe: Prwton, ean aytes oles oi megales allages qa ginoyn me to yparxon kybernhtiko sxhma, h me kapoio allo kybernhtiko sxhma, opws diabazoyme kai akoyme ton teleytaio kairo kai me nea yperypoyrgeia kai ypersyntonistika organa.

Kai to deytero erwthma moy einai, ean ola ayta poy lete peri parakataqhkhs kai paroxhs pros toys polites, symperilambanontai sto legomeno ``deytero mnhmonio'', to opoio, den jerw, yparxei, den yparxei; Eseis qa mas peite.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, oson afora sto kybernhtiko sxhma, an qa einai to paron poy qa efarmosei aytes tis politikes, qa apanthsw oti yparxei kybernhtiko sxhma. Ena kybernhtiko sxhma, to opoio doylece sklhrotata ypo antijoes synqhkes, to opoio klhqhke na symbalei sthn apofygh ths xreokopias ths xwras kai nomizw oti ayth einai h poly megalh prosfora ayths ths kybernhshs apo to sygkekrimeno kybernhtiko sxhma. Gia tis allages, kai emeis diabazoyme ta polla senaria poy kykloforoyn kaqe mera kai kaqe wra. Ayto poy proexei gia emas, einai oi politikes kai oxi ta proswpa poy tis ylopoioyn. Ta proswpa dokimasthkan, dokimazontai. To exw pei polles fores, edw kai para polloys mhnes, kaqe fora poy erwtwmai, ean yparxei qema anasxhmatismoy, oti mas endiaferoyn oi politikes. Ean yparjoyn kena apo epiloges poy isws na ginoyn - akomh den gnwrizoyme- gia toys arxontes ths topikhs aytodioikhshs, gia dhmarxoys kai perifereiarxes poy qa einai melh toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos, tote qa ginoyn oi antikatastaseis. Se ayth thn kybernhsh mas aforoyn oi allages oi opoies einai baqyteres. Mas endiaferei na allajoyme th domh toy kratoys kai den allazei h domh toy kratoys ean den yparxei kai mia diaforetikh domh se ena ypoyrgiko symboylio, ean den yparxei diaforetikh domh se ola ta sxhmata poy katateinoyn sth swsth diakybernhsh ths xwras. Ara, de menoyme se proswpa. Milame gia domes. Aytes ejetazoyme. Oytws h allws, na sas ypenqymisw oti yparxei anaqesh, apo ton idio ton Prwqypoyrgo, se ena sxhma, edw kai merikoys mhnes, gia th meleth kai thn protash gia thn orqoterh leitoyrgia toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy, ws sxhma, alla kai toy prwqypoyrgikoy grafeioy, etsi wste na pame mprosta apo ta pragmata, etsi wste ta ypoyrgeia na einai poly pio paragwgika, na exoyn armodiothtes pio synafeis metajy toys, etsi wste na mporoyme na pame stis megales allages poy qeloyme na petyxoyme apo edw kai pera.

KOYTRAS: Dhladh, mas epibebaiwnete oti qa allajei to epomeno xroniko diasthma h domh ths kybernhshs kai toy prwqypoyrgikoy grafeioy, anejarthtws proswpwn;

PETALWTHS: Den sas epibebaiwsa tipota. Egw sas eipa ayto poy hdh gnwrizoyme. Ayto poy sas epibebaiwnw - kai einai koinh logikh- oti ean yparxoyn ypoyrgoi h yfypoyrgoi oi opoioi qa metexoyn stis aytodioikhtikes ekloges, epomeno einai na antikatastaqoyn. Apo ekei pera, gnwrizoyme edw kai kairo oti meletatai se baqos h domh kai h leitoyrgia enos ypoyrgikoy sxhmatos, to opoio qa einai pio paragwgiko, pio apodotiko kai pio sygxrono.

KOYTRAS: Se ti epipedo exei fqasei ayth h meleth, ayth th stigmh; Exoyn doqei oi telikes eishghseis ston Prwqypoyrgo;

PETALWTHS: Einai ypo meleth.

MOYRELATOS: Eseis o idios milhsate kai gia ena neo kyklo megalwn allagwn kai domikwn sto kratos kai molis prin apo ligo, mas milhsate gia to prwqypoyrgiko grafeio kai gia to ypoyrgiko symboylio. Aytes tis domikes allages qa klhqoyn na tis yphrethsoyn stelexh, fantazomai kai anqrwpoi. Ara, oysiastika mas epibebaiwnete oti briskomaste poly konta se ena tetoio senario, toy anasxhmatismoy.

PETALWTHS: Den sas epibebaiwnw tipote. Oi politikes den exoyn na kanoyn me ta proswpa. Tis politikes aytes tis sxediazoyme. Einai politikes oi opoies einai domikes, einai politikes poy allazoyn thn eikona toy kratoys, ths oikonomias, me ameses epiptwseis kai sthn koinwnia kai den exei na kanei me proswpa. Einai ena diaforetiko qema to poies politikes askoyntai, alla to ypoyrgiko symboylio, ws symboylio, ws domh, safws, kai prepei na exei ekeines tis domes poy na mporei na proxwrhsei ta pragmata.

MAKRYGIANNHS: An katalaba kala, oi protaseis ths epitrophs poy problepoyn diafores allages stis domes, ths epitrophs ayths twn sofwn, twn symboylwn poy exei o Prwqypoyrgos gi` ayth th doyleia. Einai sto prwqypoyrgiko grafeio, einai sth diaqesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy hdh kai tis meleta; Ayto mas lete;

PETALWTHS: Einai pros epejergasia apo thn idia thn epitroph.

PAPPA: Sto plaisio twn allagwn sth domh ths kybernhshs, na perimenoyme kai deytero antiproedro;

PETALWTHS: Twra me kaleite na ginw manths. Sas eipa oti me ayto poy asxoleitai h kybernhsh, einai oi politikes ths, prwton kai deyteron, oi megales allages poy qa exoyn domikh antanaklash, tetoia poy na allazei kai h leitoyrgia toy idioy toy ypoyrgikoy sxhmatos ws sxhma. Ola ta ypoloipa, einai leptomereies. Otan kai an yparjoyn, qa tis doyme.

ZOYLAS: Epeidh mas eipate kyrie Ekproswpe, oti ta senaria ta diabazete apo emas, alla olws tyxaiws shmera, emfanizeste na epibebaiwnete ayta ta senaria eseis...

PETALWTHS: An qewreite oti epibebaiwsa kati, na moy peite ti akribws epibebaiwsa ap` ta dekades senaria poy exoyme diabasei.

ZOYLAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, me olo to sebasmo, shmera epibebaiwnete ena reportaz twn ``NEWN'', eseis o idios. To reportaz twn ``NEWN'' ayta grafei shmera panw-katw poy mas eipate. Egw rwtw to ejhs...

PETALWTHS: Den me afora an ta grafei to reportaz, alla nomizw oti ayta poy anefera den ta grafei kanena reportaz.

ZOYLAS: Einai ena poly kalo reportaz. Egw rwtaw, poio einai to baqos xronoy, giati mexri shmera mas miloysate gia antikatastaseis proswpwn. Qelw na mas peite poio einai to baqos xronoy gia tis allages sth domh ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti otan yparjoyn oi analoges protaseis ayths ths epitrophs qa epejergastoyn. H apofash einai politikh, einai apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai qa ginei mia systhmatikh doyleia, etsi wste na yparxei mia tetoia epejergasia, poy na apodwsei kai sxhmatika ena ypoyrgiko symboylio oxi se epipedo proswpwn, alla se epipedo domwn, poy qa einai antajio twn shmerinwn entasewn.

ZOYLAS: Mexri pote; Ayto lew. Qa to perimenoyme entos toy etoys;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei xronodiagramma.

ZOYLAS: Na to qesw diaforetika, tote. Efoson milate kai proanaggellete shmera, mia allagh sth domh ths kybernhshs, pisteyete oti mexri na ejaggelqei ayth h nea domh ths kybernhshs, mporei na leitoyrgei omalws to shmerino ypoyrgiko sxhma;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. Emeis, prwta ap` ola me to poy analabame thn kybernhsh leitoyrghsame me ena ypoyrgiko symboylio, to opoio htan diaforetiko apo ola ta prohgoymena, kai anaferomai sth domh toy. Prospaqhsame na proxwrhsoyme se enan ejorqologismo, na exoyme ena mikro ypoyrgiko symboylio me armodiothtes poy qa einai synafeis metajy toys. Ayto den shmainei, omws, oti den yparxei periqwrio beltiwshs. Akribws ayto kanoyme, mesa apo th leitoyrgia aytoy toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy, to opoio ebgale th xwra mas apo mia ejairetika dyskolh katastash. Prospaqoyme na beltiwsoyme th domh toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy.

ZOYLAS: Teleytaia erwthsh. Yparxei periptwsh aytes tis kapoies allages sth domh ths kybernhshs na tis doyme ep` aformhs twn antikatastasewn poy qa prokycoyn gia toys perifereiarxes kai toys dhmarxoys;

PETALWTHS: Einai dyo diaforetika pragmata.

PAPPA: Den syndeontai;

ZOYLAS: Apokleietai na syndeqoyn shmera apo esas;

PETALWTHS: Egw menw se ayta poy eipa.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Dieykrinistika kyrie Ekproswpe. Epeidh, oytws h allws mas eipate oti qa yparjoyn antikatastaseis ean kai efoson...

PETALWTHS: Me th stoixeiwdh logikh...

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Me th stoixeiwdh logikh, orqws. Alla, epeidh oi allages sto kybernhtiko sxhma den mporoyn na ginontai ana mhna, h ana eikosahmero, sthn oysia afoy qa yparjoyn h an prokycei oti prepei na yparjoyn, opws eipate, domikes allages sto kybernhtiko sxhma, den syndeetai kai me tis antikatastaseis; Me apla logia: Ean yparjoyn antikatastaseis den qa ginoyn kai diorqwtikes allages sto ypoloipo kybernhtiko sxhma, me bash panta tis eishghseis kai tis proswpikes epiloges toy Prwqypoyrgoy; Ayto rwtame.

PETALWTHS: H anaplhrwsh ypoyrgwn poy piqanon na pane stis aytodioikhtikes ekloges, den exei na kanei me tis megales domikes allages poy qeloyme na kanoyme kai sto ypoyrgiko sxhma, epanalambanw, gia na diaxwrizoyme kapoia pragmata.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, giati bazete se deyterh moira ta proswpa;

PETALWTHS: Kaqoloy.

KOYTRAS: Eipate, prwto oi domes, den mas apasxoloyn oi politikes. Kai to lew ayto dioti oti dysleitoyrgies exoyn emfanistei sthn kybernhsh toys 10 mhnes proerxontai isws apo diaforetikes proseggiseis proswpwn. Th nea filodojh domh den qa klhqoyn na thn yphrethsoyn proswpa katallhla; Ta paronta kybernhtika proswpa, profanws den einai katallhla, mexri stigmhs, gia na yphrethsoyn tis epomenes domes.

PETALWTHS: Ayto to lete eseis. Emeis leme -kai egw to eipa shmera- akribws to antiqeto. Ola ta proswpa toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy exoyn yphrethsei sygkekrimenes politikes me ejairetika dyskoles synqhkes, poy amfiballw an opoiadhpote allh kybernhsh qa mporoyse na tis yphrethsei me tosh synepeia kai me tetoia apotelesmata. Gi` ayto den qa prepei na adikoyme ta proswpa toy shmerinoy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy. Gi` ayto kai to aposyndew me th domh toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy. Einai dyo diaforetika pragmata.

GIANNISHS: Sthn periptwsh ayth, mesa sto sxedio ayths ths domikhs allaghs perilambanetai kai h topoqethsh enos syntonisth toy kybernhtikoy ergoy; Enos, dhladh, proswpoy to opoio qa brisketai, kata kapoio tropo, metajy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai twn ypoyrgwn kai qa syntonizei toys ypoyrgoys;

PETALWTHS: Ean sas elega kati tetoio, qa htan teleiws ayqaireto. Den yparxei tipote tetoio apofasismeno. H epejergasia qa einai synolikh, ara kai h domh endexomenws enos neoy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy qa perilambanei thn ikanopoihsh olwn twn aparaithtwn anagkwn.

MOYRELATOS: Oi domikes aytes allages poy eseis proanaggellete kyrie Ekproswpe shmera, symbaloyn oysiastika sthn peraiterw eyelijia toy sxhmatos; Giati exoyme akoysei polla senaria poy problepoyn, metajy allwn kai thn prosqhkh yfypoyrgwn. Ayta ta dyo pantreyontai metajy toys;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw oti yparxoyn periqwria beltiwshs kai mesa apo tis megales anagkes kai allages oi opoies dhmioyrghqhkan olo ayto to diasthma. Aytos einai o gnwmonas mas kai gi` ayto akribws kanoyme kai ayth th syzhthsh ths endexomenhs allaghs ths domhs enos ypoyrgikoy symboylioy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Prin apo 10-11 mhnes, otan analabate, kanate poly megales domikes allages, se sxesh me ayto poy paralabate, dhladh, to ypoyrgiko sxhma, to kybernhtiko sxhma. Kanate sygxwneyseis ypoyrgeiwn, katarghseis ypoyrgeiwn klp. Otan erxeste meta apo 10 mhnes kai syzhtate tetoioy eidoys pragmata, ti akribws exei apotyxei; Ekeino to sxedio toy perysinoy Oktwbrioy, se sxesh me tis domes h ta proswpa ta opoia klhqhkan na yphrethsoyn ekeines tis domes; Kai en pash periptwsei an kanete kaqe 10 mhnes domikes allages, na perimenoyme kai toy xronoy kata ton Ioynio;

PETALWTHS: Den exei apotyxei tipote. Ayto ejhgw edw kai para poly wra: H kybernhsh ayth einai mia kybernhsh poy doylece se synqhkes ektakths anagkhs. Pragmatika ektakths anagkhs. Apedwse kai apodidei ergo. Alla enocei toy na mhn kathgorhqoyme oti exoyme apotyxei se kati, den qa kanoyme pisw apo thn apofash mas, na kanoyme opoies allages xreiazetai to kratos, h dioikhsh, se ola ta epipeda. Se ayto den prokeitai na kanoyme pisw. Kai ola ayta poy syzhtame, se ayto to plaisio ta qetoyme.

MARAQIAS: Parathrw oti xrhsimopoieite synexeia aoristo xrono, oti h kybernhsh doylece...

PETALWTHS: Eipa ``kai ayth th stigmh akoma''.

MARAQIAS: Kai doyleyei ayth th stigmh. Th stigmh ths Dieqnoys Ekqesews Qessalonikhs qa doyleyei h idia kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa.

PAPPA: Me dedomenh th dyskolh oikonomikh sygkyria, qa hqela na rwthsw an tiqetai qema allaghs domwn kai proswpwn sto oikonomiko epiteleio ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Exw apanthsei hdh s ayto to erwthma. Den mporoyme na apokocoyme enan tomea ths kybernhtikhs drashs kai na poyme an qa ginoyn h oxi allages.

PAPPA: Einai o basikoteros.

PETALWTHS: Einai genikoterh h apanthsh, thn opoia edwsa.

STRATAKHS: Se ayto to apotyxhmeno, loipon, systhma me toys petyxhmenoys ypoyrgoys, qa hqela na rwthsw ean problepetai stis protaseis poy epejergazetai h epitroph, opws kai an thn onomasoyme, an to ypoyrgiko symboylio qa apoteleitai apo ejwkoinoboyleytika proswpa.

PETALWTHS: Eseis kanate ena bhma parapanw apo ayta poy legame...

STRATAKHS: Nomizw oti sto plaisio twn domwn, mporei na syzhthqei kai apo poy mporei na proerxontai kai oi ypoyrgoi.

PETALWTHS: Anafereste se proswpa. Ayth th stigmh den tiqetai qema allaghs proswpwn sthn kybernhsh.

MPEQANH: Xronika qa hqela na prosdiorisete aytes tis domikes allages. Na tis perimenoyme prin apo tis endexomenes antikatastaseis twn proswpwn poy mporei na metaphdhsoyn sthn Aytodioikhsh;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti einai kati diaforetiko, einai kati baqytero oi domikes allages tis opoies apofasisame oti prepei na ginoyn kai hdh yparxei epejergasia ws pros ayto. Ara, den mporoyme na to syndesoyme.

ROYBINETHS: Qa hqela na allajoyme klima. Einai mia pragmatikothta poy antimetwpizei o kosmos. Epeidh apantate se erwthseis se oloys toys tomeis, sas xrewnontai erwthseis - idiaitera apo toys omogeneis- akoma kai anaptyjiakes agkylwseis synadelfwn sas, poy den pane kala oi tomeis toys. En pash periptwsei, to exw tonisei epaneilhmmena, ayta einai kayta kastana poy sas pasaroyn allo, kai ti na kanete, pws na ta bgalete pera. Lete mia genikh katastash. Qa mporoysate na mas peite, an yparxei ameso sxedio antimetwpishs toy anaptyjiakoy elleimmatos, poy kai to idio to DNT exei diapistwsei kai poy ofeiletai sth mh xrhmatodothsh twn trapezwn klp;

PETALWTHS: To qema ths anaptyjhs mas afora amesa. Einai mia apo tis proteraiothtes kai einai to megalo zhtoymeno. Omws, gnwrizoyme oti den yparxei syntagh gia na yparjei amesh anaptyjh, ayto einai dedomeno. Prospaqoyme me mia seira apo politikes, me mia seira apofasewn poy dhmioyrgoyn ena periballon, to opoio na eynoei anaptyjiakes prwtoboylies, na allajoyme to klima, na to antistrecoyme. Ayto omws einai aytonohto kai eynohto oti den einai eykolo. Oles oi prospaqeies poy kanei h kybernhsh - eidika sto qema twn oikonomikwn kai anaptyjiakwn mas politikwn - katateinoyn wste na yparxei prooptikh anaptyjhs. Kai hdh, qa mporoysa kai na sas anaferw mia seira apo apofaseis kai nomoys anaptyjiakhs prooptikhs poy efere h kybernhsh. Milame omws, pio epikaira kai se ligo qa exoyme neo anaptyjiako nomo, o opoios qa bohqhsei thn anaptyjh thn opoia pragmatika exei anagkh o topos.

ROYBINETHS: Ta lew ayta giati eimai apo to eyrwdiktyo ths enhmerwshs kai gia toys omogeneis poy lene diafora... kai nomizoyn oti o Petalwths ftaiei gia ola... kai lene ``den mas ta leei kala''. Nomizw qa eprepe na to antimetwpisete kai ayto.

PETALWTHS: O poliths katanoei ti ginetai kai pragmatika katanoei kai to poso dyskolo einai na yparjei h poqhth anaptyjh. Alla, na sas anaferw oti stis epafes poy exoyme kanei me toys omogeneis, toys kaloyme na ependysoyn sthn patrida kai safws apo thn pleyra toys yparxei boylhsh kai diaqesh. Yparxoyn omws ta gnwsta problhmata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias dhladh h grafeiokratia, h diafqora, h mh stoxeysh se anaptyjiakes politikes. Emeis prospaqoyme na ta antistrecoyme ola ayta. Na ta katapolemhsoyme kai qa hqela na sas qymisw oti yparxei nomosxedio gia thn aploysteysh ths adeiodothshs twn epixeirhsewn. Prospaqoyme na katapolemhsoyme th diafqora me sygkekrimenes praktikes kai fysika ola ayta bohqoyn sto na yparxei anaptyjiakh prooptikh gia ton topo mas.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, diabazoyme kai diaxeontai plhrofories oti qa ayjhqoyn, qa doyme proionta na anebainoyn ston ychlotero syntelesth, qa pame gia ``mnhmonio noymero 2'' . Dhladh diabazoyme diafora dhmosieymata poy den jerw an einai ypo morfh plhroforiwn h senariwn, alla qa qelame mia epishmh eite diaceysh eite epibebaiwsh gia ayto.

PETALWTHS: Qa sas anaferw ayto poy exw pei kathgorhmatika: Den yparxei qema newn metrwn gia to 2010. Den yparxei qema newn metrwn kai neoy mnhmonioy. Yparxei ena mnhmonio to opoio epikairopoieitai. Yparxoyn metra kai apofaseis oi opoies einai dromologhmenes. Nea metra poy qa epibarynoyn ton ellhna polith den yparxoyn oyte ws skech. Emeis den wraiopoioyme tis katastaseis. Gnwrizoyme oti h krish den exei jeperastei alla den mporoyme na afeqoyme se mia logikh h opoia kalliergeitai. Einai mia logikh katastrofhs kai arnhshs twn pantwn giati kati tetoio den bohqaei ton megalo eqniko agwna poy dinoyme ws laos kai ws kybernhsh. Eimaste akomh sta dyskola. Ayto to gnwrizoyme kai me bash ayto proxwroyme.

To na anaparagoyme mia katastrofologia h opoia den exei kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta kaqe allo para ws paroxh yphresias pros toys Ellhnes polites mporei na eklhfqei. Emeis diaceydoyme kai qa synexisoyme na diaceydoyme ayta ta senaria katastrofologias me to ergo poy paragoyme ws kybernhsh kai me ta apotelesmata poy kapote qa prepei na ta doyme pio jekaqara.

KOYTRAS: To epikairopoihmeno mnhmonio, apaiteitai na perasei gia chfish apo th Boylh;

PETALWTHS: To mnhmonio einai ena. To mnhmonio epikairopoieitai wste na diagrafontai ta stoixeia ta opoia hdh exoyn ylopoihqei kai na ejeidikeyontai ayta poy periexontai sto mnhmonio. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh yparxei mia ysterhsh esodwn, mikroterh h megalyterh, proskairh h mh, pantws yparxei kai entopizetai ap` oloys, mhpws ayth qa antimetwpistei kyrie Ekproswpe, apo th metakylish proiontwn apo to mesaio sto megalytero syntelesth, sxetika amesa, poy den einai ena neo metro, oyte...

PETALWTHS: Gia ayjhsh toy FPA lete;

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, th metakylish proiontwn, poy yparxei hdh san plaisio dhladh.

PETALWTHS: Yparxei sto plaisio, alla yparxei dromologhmeno gia to 2011. Mesa sto 2010 den prokeitai na yparjei ayjhsh toy FPA. Ayto einai dedomeno. Oson afora sthn ysterhsh twn esodwn ginetai mia megalh syzhthsh, arnhtikh h qetikh. Ayto poy exoyme na poyme einai oti se ayth thn ysterhsh twn esodwn etsi opws fainetai, den exei ypologistei h eisprajh toy ETAK gia to 2009, den exei ypologistei h eisprajh toy Foroy Megalhs Akinhths Perioysias kai fysika den exei ypologistei kai ena megalo meros twn prostimwn ta opoia epiballontai gia forologikoys logoys -poy einai megalo to synoliko ycos aytwn twn prostimwn- se tetoio baqmo wste ypologizoyme ws kybernhsh oti ean sto telos milame gia ysterhsh twn esodwn ayth qa einai toso mikrh h opoia qa antikatastaqei sto oikonomiko kai anaptyjiako ths isozygio me alloy eidoys anaptyjiaka erga , etsi wste na mhn antimetwpizoyme problhma. Ayth einai mia bebaiothta thn opoia ekfrazoyme.

MIXAHL: Kyrie ekproswpe, qa zhthsei h kybernhsh me epishmo diabhma apo thn kybernhsh ths Slobakias, etairo sthn E.E. ejhghseis gia ta osa eipe o ypoyrgos ejwterikwn ths xwras dikaiologwntas thn apofash na mhn sympleysei me tis ypoloipes xwres sto mhxanismo sthrijhs logw toy oti yparxoyn diefqarmenoi politikoi oi opoioi kai ta elleimmata megalwnoyn alla kai to xreos ths xwras diogkwnoyn.

PETALWTHS: Emeis kanoyme mia systhmatikh doyleia. Mia doyleia thn opoia blepoyn kai diapistwnoyn oloi oi etairoi mas kai malista akomh kai dieqneis proswpikothtes oi opoioi isws kai dikaiologhmena na htan poly kaxypoptoi me thn ellhnikh pragmatikothta. Ayto poy exoyme na kanoyme emeis einai na diaceydoyme kaqhmerina me tis politikes mas, me th sobarothta kai th staqerothta mas, oloys aytoys oi opoioi amfisbhtoyn apo edw kai pera thn ajiopistia mas, amfisbhtoyn to oti ergazomaste sklhra. Kai ean dei kaneis to ti legetai se antiqesh me ayta poy eipate genikotera apo toys etairoys mas, alla kai dieqnws, diapistwnei oti xairoyme ths ektimhshs olwn twn ypoloipwn etairwn mas, alla kai pollwn dieqnwn proswpikothtwn, oi opoioi, pragmatika, mporoyn kai blepoyn thn alhqeia. Apo ekei kai pera, kaqenas, otan einai etairos exei kai thn eyqynh toy ti prattei kai toy ti leei. As analogistoyme oti ayton ton eyrwpaiko Mhxanismo Sthrijhs ton sthsame ws Eyrwph, me th dikh mas symbolh. Kai mono to oti yparxei aytos o mhxanismos gia na enisxyei ekeina ta krath poy piqanon na exoyn problhmata san ths Elladas einai ena poly megalo epiteygma. Eidika, oso blepei kaneis kai to pws phgainoyn oi ariqmoi, statistika pleon - kai malista statistika poy exoyn sxesh me thn pragmatikothta kai oxi me thn ejapathsh poy ginotan epi Neas Dhmokratias- tote nomizw oti peritteyei h apanthsh.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Hqela na sas rwthsw, kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh kai o Prwqypoyrgos pro mhnos se synenteyjh toy se dieqnes thleoptiko diktyo eixe pei oti oi ariqmoi pane kala, oti to programma threitai kai oti yparxei sobaro endexomeno meta to 2011 na bgoyme kai ektos mnhmonioy stis agores. Dhladh, na mporesoyme na anakamcoyme. Hqela, loipon, na sas rwthsw me ayth thn parametro, ean h epikairopoihsh, opws eipate, toy mnhmonioy, eidika stoys tomeis oi opoioi prepei na enisxyqoyn, na thrhqoyn, h na ginoyn allages, ean yparxei mia deyterh skech sthn kybernhsh, na sas to qesw etsi, na epikairopoieitai to mnhmonio me stoxo, akomh kai an yparjoyn kapoia metra kai piestei akomh perissotero h agora h o Ellhnas poliths, o stoxos na einai na bgoyme pio nwris apo to mnhmonio. Yparxei tetoia skech;

PETALWTHS: To mnhmonio einai mia endiamesh katastash kai dhmioyrghqhke etsi wste na mporesoyme na kalycoyme tis daneiakes mas anagkes. Ennoeitai oti apwteros stoxos mas einai na mporesoyme na bgoyme stis agores, na mporesoyme na daneistoyme eleyqera, me synqhkes omws, poy qa einai symbates me th dieqnh oikonomikh pragmatikothta kai me thn pragmatikothta ths xwras mas. Gi` ayto exw dhlwsei epaneilhmmenws oti osoi dhlwnoyn kata toy mnhmonioy to ligotero poy kanoyn einai na ejapatoyn ton ellhniko lao. Emas stoxos mas einai aytos: Na mporesoyme na bgoyme apo to mnhmonio me ton kalytero tropo. Kai o monadikos tropos gia na mporesoyme na antapejelqoyme einai na throyme aparegklita toys stoxoys poy bazoyme. Na anatajoyme thn ellhnikh oikonomia, na dhmioyrghsoyme ena klima kai ena periballon se oikonomiko epipedo, sto opoio qa kyriarxei h ajiopistia mas, etsi wste kai oi agores na einai ajiopistes apenanti mas kai na baloyme freno se aytoys, oi opoioi - kai einai polloi aytoi- poy pontaroyn sth xreokopia ths xwras mas. Gi` ayto akribws to logo, doyleyoyme sklhra kai apantame emprakta pleon me thn politikh mas, thn opoia ylopoioyme aparegklita, se aytoys poy katastrofologoyn, se aytoys poy oysiastika bohqoyn toys kerdoskopoys oi opoioi prospaqhsan kai prospaqoyn na kerdoskophsoyn akomh se baros ths xwras mas.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, lete osoi tassontai kata toy mnhmonioy ejapatoyn ton ellhniko lao. Qa hqela na rwthsw, ayto isxyei kai gia stelexh toy PASOK opws o k. Mhtropoylos kai kapoioi alloi, poy exoyn taxqei kata toy mnhmonioy;

PETALWTHS: Egw to lew ws mia genikh qewrhsh kai egw fysika to ejhgw, ypo thn ennoia oti to mnhmonio den htan mia programmatikh kybernhtikh epilogh. To mnhmonio einai ena keimeno to opoio anaferetai stis symbatikes mas ypoxrewseis apo th mia meria, enw apo thn allh pleyra enswmatwsame kai poly megales allages poy einai sto programma mas kai einai fysika symbates, omws, me thn katastash sthn opoia briskomaste. Ara, to na milame kata toy mnhmonioy, otan mesa sto mnhmonio yparxoyn kai poly megales allages poy prowqoyme kai deyteron otan apokryptetai ap` aytoys poy anaferontai kata toy mnhmonioy, oti htan anagkaio gia na diaswqei h xwra mas. Kai mporei na akoygetai poly wraia kai na einai poly elkystiko kai romantiko kai filologika wraia na eimaste kata toy mnhmonioy, alla as erqoyn na mas poyn, pws qa swzame th xwra mas apo th xreokopia kai pws qa poreyomastan apo edw kai pera, alla telika pisteyw oti einai qema eilikrineias toy kaqenos mas.

SIDERHS: Exw dyo erwthseis: H prwth, eipate oti epiteloys, sto forologiko qema oi parabates diwkontai. Posoi ekdiwxqhsan, posoi mphkan fylakh kai ti exete kanei se nomiko epipedo oytws wste na ejasfalisete ekeines tis taxyrryqmes diadikasies prokeimenoy na doyme kapoion sth fylakh kai na ikanopoihqei kai to koino aisqhma kai na leitoyrghsei paradeigmatika; Giati stis proqeseis eiste ejairetos opws tis ekfrazete. Apotelesmata den exoyme dei. H deyterh erwthsh. Aytes tis hmeres skotwqhke enas omogenhs mas sthn Albania. Mesa sto dieqnismo ths h kybernhsh ti exei kanei prokeimenoy kai thn ajioprepeia ths xwras na diafylajei, alla kai thn ellhnikh meionothta ths Albanias, gia thn opoia to gegonos ths dolofonias den htan ena tyxaio, kaqws eixame allepallhla kymata pyrobolismwn ejw apo to spiti toy foneyqentos.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na sas apanthsw oti kaqe hmera yparxei enhmerwsh sxetika me to ti kanoyn oi oikonomikes Arxes etsi wste na katapolemhsoyn th forodiafygh. Kai pragmatika kaqe hmera yparxei mia oloklhrh lista apo energeies oi opoies deixnoyn ti exei allajei. Kaqe hmera ginontai stoxeymenoi elegxoi kai exoyn katalhfqei poly megala eisodhmata ta opoia apokryptontan. Ginontai diastayrwseis stoixeiwn sympolitwn mas oi opoioi dhlwnoyn elaxista sthn eforia -kapoioi den ekanan kai forologikes dhlwseis- kai eixan polyteleis katoikies, skafh kai poly megala perioysiaka stoixeia. Gia oloys aytoys yparxei mia diadikasia poy einai en ejelijei kai fysika qa exoyn kai tis aparaithtes synepeies. Ayth einai ypoxrewsh toy kratoys, poy eprepe na ylopoieitai edw kai para polla xronia. Dystyxws, omws, fqasame se ena shmeio, eidika ta teleytaia xronia, opoy eixan katalyqei oi foroeispraktikoi mhxanismoi kai oi mhxanismoi oi opoioi qa eprepe na katalambanoyn th forologhtea ylh.

SIDERHS: Ayta ta jeroyme. Rwthsa, se epipedo taxyrryqmhs apodoshs antimetwpishs ek meroys ths Dikaiosynhs, den exei ginei tipote.

PETALWTHS: Qa sas apanthsw kai se ayto. Epeidh to ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs exei desmeytei kai hdh etoimazei nomoqetikes parembaseis oi opoies akribws epitaxynoyn ekeines tis diadikasies se dikastiko epipedo, etsi wste na diekperaiwnontai oses amfibolies yparxoyn gia to ean prepei na kataballontai kai se ti ycos ta prostima, me skopo sto telos na yparxoyn esoda gia to kratos kai fysika na yparxei kai apotroph pros toys sympolites mas, oi opoioi den dhlwnoyn ta eisodhmata toys. Ayto einai mesa sta sxedia ths kybernhshs kai to exei hdh ejaggeilei to ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs. Qa stamathsei pleon ayto poy ginetai kai ayto poy blepoyme edw kai xronia, na limnazoyn, eidika sta dioikhtika prwtodikeia, ypoqeseis prosfygwn kata aytwn twn prostimwn kai na mhn plhrwnontai ayta ta prostima. Kai ena prwto metro to opoio hdh exei ejaggelqei, einai oti qa mporei kaneis na prosfeygei, giati exei dikaiwma -kai prepei na yparxei ayto to dikaiwma- kata prajewn bebaiwshs kai epibolhs prostimwn, afoy omws prokataballei ena poly megalo poson, poy shmainei oti to kerdos gia to kratos einai megalo kai beltiwnetai shmantika h katastash sthn opoia anaferqhkate.

Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, gia thn Albania, hdh apo tis prwtes wres poy synebh ayto to egklhmatiko gegonos, to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn exei probei se sxetikh dhlwsh kai fysika ginontai oles oi aparaithtes energeies.

SEGKOS: H kybernhsh fobatai toso poly to ``mayrisma'' stis topikes ekloges poy anazhta dekanikia se kommata opws h ``Dhmokratikh Aristera'', h oi ``Oikologoi'' gia na katebasoyn koino ypochfio sthn Aqhna h se alloys megaloys dhmoys;

PETALWTHS: Dekanikia den zhtame apo kanenan. Eimaste anoixtoi se synergasies, efoson yparxoyn koina programmata kai efoson yparxei koinh antilhch, eidika se qemata topikhs aytodioikhshs. Emeis, exoyme pei para polles fores oti meta thn epanastash toy ``KALLIKRATH'' -giati einai epanastatiko ayto to sxedio gia thn topikh aytodioikhsh- qa symbaloyme etsi wste ta proswpa ta opoia qa analaboyn tis tyxes twn newn dhmwn, me tis nees domes kai tis nees morfes alla kai twn airetwn perifereiakwn aytodioikhsewn, na einai proswpa poy pisteyoyn sthn aytodioikhsh, poy pisteyoyn se ayth thn poly megalh allagh thn opoia kaname kai poy qa pane olo ayto to qesmo ths neas topikhs aytodioikhshs, akomh pio pera. Se ayto to plaisio, opoies synergasies mporei na yparxoyn einai epiqymhtes, giati alimono, an phgainame monomerws me kaqara kommatika krithria.

ZOYLAS: O Grammateas toy kybernwntos kommatos k. Jynidhs eixe pei kati paremferes oti den qa sthrijete ypochfioys poy exoyn apo pisw toys kommata poy antimaxontai tis meizones politikes sas eseis prin apo ligo eipate oti einai wraio kapoios , en pash periptwsei na antitassetai to mnhmonio, einai romantiko omws kai ektos pragmatikothtas. O k. Koybelhs to prwi edwse mia synenteyjh opoy xarakthrise to mnhmonio ena plaisio me aparadektes ryqmiseis poy ejeidikeyontai me ena forologiko systhma, to diko sas poy einai adiko kai antisyntagmatiko. Dierwtwmai loipon kaqws sthn idia synenteyjh o k. Koybelhs proteine kai dhmosiws sto PASOK na ekproswphqei apo koinoy mia ypochfiothta toy k. Kaminh toy Synhgoroy toy Polith gia thn Perifereia ths Attikhs. Protiqetai to komma sas na sthrijei ayth thn protash;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den exw antilhfqei poy einai h antifash se ayta poy eipe o k. Jynidhs kai se ayta poy eipa egw...

ZOYLAS: Oxi, oxi den eipa gia kamia antifash, antiqetws eipa oti lete kati paremferes.

PETALWTHS: Den qa hqela na mpw se qema ypochfiothtwn, giati qa miloysa ayqaireta. To qema twn ypochfiothtwn poy qa yposthrijei to PASOK einai qema toy PASOK. Yparxei qesmoqethmenh epitroph, h opoia qa anakoinwsei tis apofaseis me ton pleon epishmo tropo. Ayto poy epanalambanw einai oti mas endiaferei o qesmos ths Topikhs Aytodioikhshs na proxwrhsei, me proswpa poy qa pisteyoyn se ayto to qesmo.

ZOYLAS: Apo toys 13 ypochfioys stis Perifereies, na ypoqesoyme oti epeidh pantote o Prwqypoyrgos epideiknyei mia eyaisqhsia sthn ayjhmenh gynaikeia posostwsh, qa exoyme to legomeno 40%, qa exoyme toylaxiston 5 gynaikes ypochfies stis Perifereies;

PETALWTHS: Qa ayqairetoysa an sas apantoysa. Den to gnwrizw. Den yparxoyn akomh apofaseis. Ginontai syzhthseis kai oi opoies apofaseis qa anakoinwqoyn.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Kyrie ekproswpe, epeidh endexomenws na exete megalyterh plhroforhsh, brisketai se ejelijh mia enoplh lhsteia se trapeza ston Peiraia me omhria. Thn apasxolei thn kybernhsh to gegonos oti eidika ton mhna Aygoysto h anasfaleia twn politwn ayjhqhke, kaqws ayjhqhkan dramatika kai oi periptwseis lhsteiwn klp. klp. kai me aformh kai ayto to gegonos.

PETALWTHS: Den exw peraiterw plhroforhsh apo aythn poy exete. Ayto poy gnwrizw einai oti to ypoyrgeio Prostasias toy Polith prospaqei kai malista me poly grhgoroys kai sklhroys ryqmoys na antimetwpisei thn egklhmatikothta h opoia omws opws gnwrizoyme den antimetwpizetai eykola.

Yparxoyn skeceis, yparxoyn prwtoboylies, yparxei h ``omada DIAS'' poy prospaqei gia thn asfaleia twn politwn, eidikotera stis geitonies oxi mono ths Aqhnas, alla kai allwn polewn ths xwras. Apo ekei kai pera, to qema ths egklhmatikothtas einai synqeto zhthma poy to antimetwpizei me sobarothta to ypoyrgeio Prostasias toy Polith.

GIANNISHS: Se oti afora sto qema ths idiwtikopoihshs kai eidikotera sto qema idiwtikopoihshs twn limenwn, se poio stadio brisketai ayto kai ti sxediazei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Qa enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw.

Kalo apogeyma.

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