Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-05-31

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 31 Maioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 269947685

Ekdosh 1

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KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 31 Maioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri kai kalh ebdomada.

Einai gnwsto oti h kybernhsh mas exei qesei to qema ths diafaneias sth dhmosia zwh se ycisth proteraiothta. Akomh kai ws ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, zhthsame thn apo koinoy systash Ejetastikwn Epitropwn me thn tote kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias, estw kai an yphrxe qema na qixtoyn kai dika mas stelexh toy parelqontos, wste na pacei h apajiwsh ths dhmosias zwhs kai ths politikhs, me thn epikindynh kai isopedwtikh rhsh kai logikh: ``oloi idioi einai''.

H tote kybernhsh eite apefeyge na topoqethqei, opws se kaqe meizon zhthma ths politikhs zwhs, eite apoxwroyse apo th Boylh gia na apokrycei thn alhqeia kai gia na epelqei paragrafh twn adikhmatwn twn ypoyrgwn ths.

Oi Ejetastikes Epitropes poy exoyn systaqei ergazontai kai apodeiknyoyn oti otan yparxei isxyrh politikh boylhsh, poy diaqetei h shmerinh kybernhsh, tote mporei pragmatika na exei apotelesmata ayth h diadikasia.

Shmera to zhtoymeno alla kai to diakybeyma einai to idio. H diafaneia kai h patajh ths diafqoras sthn politikh zwh ths xwras einai oxi mono dikaih laikh apaithsh, alla stoixeiwdes proapaitoymeno mias dhmokratikhs diakybernhshs ths xwras. Eprepe, dystyxws, na allajei h kybernhsh gia na ginoyn ta apolytws aytonohta kai se ayto ton krisimo tomea.

Kathgorhqhkame apo thn antipoliteysh gia prospaqeia apoprosanatolismoy apo ta megala problhmata. Twra, omws, oloi antilambanomaste oti se mia periodo krisimh gia th xwra, poy kaqhmerina dinoyme maxh ajiopistias, einai stoixeiwdes kaqhkon toy politikoy kosmoy na akoysei kai na ensternistei toys polites, metatrepontas toys se dynamh pragmatikhs allaghs nootropiwn, qesmwn kai praktikwn.

Eimaste apofasismenoi na fqasoyme ayth th diadikasia ews to telos kai na apodoqoyn eyqynes, opoy kai an prokycoyn.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

POLYMEROS: Den diafwnw me ayto poy eipate molis twra. Omws, kapoia stigmh qa bgoyn sto fws ayta ta stoixeia apo tis Ejetastikes Epitropes; Gia na stamathsei kai ayth h parafilologia gia ``prasinoys'', ``galazioys'' ypoyrgoys, prwhn ypoyrgoys, o,ti telos pantwn yparxei. Qa doyme kapoia stigmh ayta ta stoixeia sth dhmosiothta;

PETALWTHS: H shmerinh kybernhsh, th diafaneia, thn antilambanetai me sygkekrimenoys oroys. Kai enas prwtos oros einai oti h diafaneia kai h diafqora den exei xrwma. Den yparxei ``prasinh'', den yparxei ``mple'' kai ``kokkinh'' diafaneia. Einai mia h diafaneia kai shmera einai eykairia gia thn politikh zwh ths xwras, epiteloys, na apokatastaqei ayth h atimwrhsia, ayto to aisqhma ths atimwrhsias poy yphrxe, na anatrapei, etsi wste pragmatika na mporoyme na proxwrhsoyme sto pragmatiko ergo ths xwras, sta pragmatika problhmata ths xwras, me diaforetikes pleon synqhkes kai oroys.

SIDERHS: Safws, exete pei epaneilhmmena oti h Ejetastikh Epitroph qa apofasisei gia to an qa kalesei ton k. Shmith na ejetastei. H kybernhsh exei apoch;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh, safws, kai exei apoch gia ola kai ayth einai oti qa prepei na sebomaste toys nomoys kai to Syntagma. Oi Ejetastikes Epitropes exoyn th dikh toys aytoteleia, exoyn th dikh toys aytonomia. Apofasizoyn me sygkekrimenes diadikasies kai kaloyn, fysika, opoioys martyres krinoyn oti prepei na klhqoyn. Apo ekei kai pera, emeis, ws kybernhsh, epeidh rwtate kai exete dikaio se ayto, exoyme sygkekrimenes arxes gia th diafaneia. Yperaspizomaste to kratos dikaioy, xwris mikrokommatikes antimetwpiseis kai fysika, to exoyme apodeijei kai se ola ta epipeda, opoy xreiasthke na antimetwpisoyme ayto to qema, mexri shmera.

MIXAHL: An den me apata h mnhmh moy to 1997, o k. Kastanidhs, ypoyrgos tote Metaforwn, paraiteitai me epistolh poy stelnei ston k. Shmith. Kai afoy paraiteitai, antikaqistatai apo ton k. Mantelh. Krinete eseis, einai logos ayth h epistolh poy esteile o k. Kastanidhs ston k. Shmith, gia na klhqei o k. Shmiths sthn ejetastikh epitroph;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw: Ayto einai qema ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs. Prepei, omws, na dieykrinisoyme oti qesh ths kybernhshs einai oti eidikotera gia toys prwhn prwqypoyrgoys - oi opoioi fysika den diaferoyn apo kanenan polith, alla qa prepei na prostateyoyme kai kapoioys qesmoys- exoyme thn apoch oti kaloyntai, efoson mporoyn na symbaloyn oysiastika sth diereynhsh ths alhqeias. Ayth einai h apoch mas kai ayth einai h arxh mas. Apo ekei kai pera, einai qema twn ejetastikwn epitropwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, gia ton k. Kastanidh: Mhpws qa klhqei o k. Kastanidhs na pei sthn ejetastikh epitroph, ti akribws ennooyse otan egrafe ayth thn epistolh;

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti ayto einai qema ths ejetastikhs epitrophs.

PETOYRH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw gia ena stelexos toy PASOK, sto parelqon hgetiko, gia ton k. Akh Tsoxatzopoylo. Me dedomeno oti sta dhmosieymata toy teleytaioy diasthmatos, o k. Tsoxatzopoylos xqes antedrase kai antedrase entonws, milwntas gia mia ypoylh prospaqeia kataspilwshs ths proswpikothtas toy. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

PETALWTHS: Den exw na sxoliasw tipota ep` aytoy. O k. Tsoxatzopoylos den einai kybernhtiko stelexos. Ara, h kybernhsh den mporei na sxoliazei.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, einai, omws, kommatiko stelexos o k. Tsoxatzopoylos. Isxyei kai gia ton k. Tsoxatzopoylo, opws kai gia ta alla stelexh to dogma ths mhdenikhs anoxhs poy exoyme dei mexri twra na to yioqetei o Prwqypoyrgos, se kaqe periptwsh analogh h en pash periptwsei se periptwsh poy kinoyntai ypocies;

PETALWTHS: Einai safes oti h diafaneia isxyei gia oloys, se oles tis kateyqynseis kai gia ola ta proswpa. Ayto einai jekaqaro. Apo ekei kai pera, eipate oti einai kommatiko stelexos, ara einai qema toy PASOK na antimetwpisei opoiodhpote endexomeno, ws pros ayto poy me rwthsate prohgoymenws.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, sth Nea Dhmokratia poy epimenei na klhqei o k. Shmiths, kanontas malista kai mia strofh, para tis diabebaiwseis poy edine, pws sxoliazete ayth thn energeia ths; Giati diabazoyme kai akoyme oti aposkopei se entypwseis. Yioqeteite mia tetoia kritikh; H oti qelei na dhmioyrghsei mia qolh katastash apoprosanatolismoy, oytws wste piqanon na pisteyei oti etsi den qa apokalyfqoyn pragmata gia tyxon eyqynes dikwn ths stelexwn.

PETALWTHS: H Nea Dhmokratia, poy den diasfalise se olh thn periodo ths diakybernhshs ths antiqeta ypeqalpe eknomes symperifores gia sygkalych ychlwn stelexwn kai ypoyrgwn ths, estw kai twra, exei mia eykairia na apodeijei oti antelhfqh ti shmainei diafaneia. Apo ekei kai pera, h Nea Dhmokratia qa kriqei me bash to ti qesh qa parei sthn ejetastikh epitroph, gia oloys osoi mporei na emplekontai h mporei na symbaloyn sth diereynhsh ths alhqeias gia to qema poy diereynoyn oi ejetastikes epitropes.

KALLARYTHS: Peran toy diadikastikoy qematos, gia to an qa klhqei o k. Shmiths h oxi, poy einai qema ths ejetastikhs epitrophs, apo th stigmh poy enas prwhn ypoyrgos koryfaios kai stenos synergaths tote toy k. Shmith, paradexetai oti phre xrhmata apo th Siemens kai afhnei yponooymena gia xrhmata poy exoyn doqei kai se alloys, politika h kybernhsh qewrei oti tiqetai ena qema na doqoyn ejhghseis peran ths ejetastikhs epitrophs kai apo ton k. Shmith. Politika ennow, peran toy diadikastikoy.

PETALWTHS: O k. Shmiths, apanthse se ayta ta yponooymena. Alla, me yponooymena den mporoyme na pame mprosta. Efoson yparxoyn sygkekrimenes kataggelies h sygkekrimenes apoceis palaioterwn politikwn stelexwn, eimaste diateqeimenoi na tis akoysoyme.

Alla, epanalambanw, qa prepei na proxwrhsoyme xwris mikrocyxies, xwris kanibalismoys kai me sygkekrimena stoixeia ta opoia jekaqarizoyn th dhmosia zwh. Alliws, ean fqasoyme me ciqyroys, me yponoies kai me yponooymena na katadikazoyme politika proswpa, tote epiteloyme, akribws, ton antiqeto skopo, dhladh na sygkalyptoyme kai oxi na apokalyptoyme.

KROYSTALH: Yparxei ena qema, omws, me ta xrhmata poy exoyn paei sta kommatika tameia. Kai ayto jepernaei to ti leei enas ypoyrgos gia to poy phgan kapoia xrhmata, an phgan se kapoia proswpa kai ayta. Kai ayto plhttei eyqews to politiko systhma sto synolo toy.

PETALWTHS: Efoson apodeixqei oti exoyn paei xrhmata se kommatika tameia, fysika yparxei qema antimetwpishs. Alla, einai ena qema poy eixe teqei sto parelqon, eidika gia to PASOK kai exei diereynhqei. Emeis eimaste yper ths diafaneias kai sta oikonomika twn kommatwn. Kai exoyme kanei sygkekrimenes protaseis, oi opoies qa paroyn kai th morfh nomoqetikwn ryqmisewn, etsi wste ta kommata na exoyn diafanh oikonomika stoixeia, toylaxiston apo edw kai pera.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Pws xarakthrizei h ellhnikh kybernhsh thn epiqesh toy israhlinoy stratoy sta skafh ths apostolhs poy metefere anqrwpistikh bohqeia sth Gaza kai an skopeyete, prokeimenoy na ekfrasete thn katadikh sas, na kanete kapoia allh energeia pera apo th diakoph ths koinhs askhshs me thn israhlinh aeroporia kai th mataiwsh ths episkechs toy Israhlinoy arxhgoy ths aeroporias.

PETALWTHS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh parakoloyqei poly stena tis ejelijeis poy blepoyn to fws ths dhmosiothtas tis teleytaies wres. Einai safes oti h kybernhsh katadikazei th xrhsh bias kai malista th sygkekrimenh xrhsh bias poy askhqhke se dieqnh ydata. Yphrxe stratiwtikh epembash, stratiwtikh epixeirhsh se skafos me ellhnikh shmaia se dieqnh ydata. Synepws, h katadikh mas einai aytonohth alla kai rhth. Emeis zhtame plhrh enhmerwsh apo to Israhl, giati fainetai oti enhmerwsh den yparxei mexri stigmhs, opws eprepe na yparxei. Kai katasthsame to Israhl ypeyqyno gia thn asfaleia twn Ellhnwn politwn. Apo ekei kai pera, opws eipate kai eseis, diakophkan oi ellhno-israhlines aeroporikes askhseis kai diastayrwnoyme ola ta stoixeia, exontas epishmh enhmerwsh, pleon, apo to Israhl, to opoio ypoxreoytai na thn parexei.

SIDERHS: Qewreite oti to gegonos, oti to makeleio egine se dieqnh ydata, synista kratikh peirateia toy Israhl kai katarrakwsh toy dieqnoys dikaioy;

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti katadikazoyme to gegonos. Den mporw na akoloyqhsw toys dikoys sas xarakthrismoys, giati den synadoyn me toys diplwmatikoys. H katadikh ths xrhshs bias einai safhs apo thn pleyra mas. Peraiterw, exoyn doqei odhgies apo to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn. Oson afora se qemata armodiothtas moy, epeidh yparxoyn dhmosiografoi poy akoloyqoyn thn apostolh sth Gaza, exw zhthsei me eggrafo moy na yparxei stenh parakoloyqhsh kai enhmerwsh kai gia toys ekproswpoys toy Typoy poy briskontai ekei.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh sas eida ligo feidwlo kai prosektiko stoys xarakthrismoys. Den qewreite oti h dolofonia 20 anqrwpwn, opws anaferoyn oi plhrofories, synista egklhma;

PETALWTHS: Den eipa kati diaforetiko kai den eimai feidwlos. Aplws, den mporw na yioqethsw xarakthrismoys poy mporei na mhn antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta h na ennooyn kati allo. To oti yparxei safhs kai rhth katadikh gi` ayth thn prajh toy Israhl, poy eixe sygkekrimena apotelesmata ta opoia diereynoyme kai gia ta opoia zhtame amesh enhmerwsh, einai safes.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Gia th stratiwtikh askhsh. Ti koinh stratiwtikh askhsh kanoyme emeis me toys Ebraioys kai malista otan einai gnwsto to ti symbainei sth Gaza kai pws antimetwpizontai oi anqrwpistikes bohqeies poy katafqanoyn; Dioti den einai to prwto epeisodio, aplws einai to pio tragiko.

PETALWTHS: H ejwterikh politikh askeitai me bash kai me gnwmona to dhmosio symferon ths xwras.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Katadikazete, dhladh, th shmerinh kinhsh ths israhlinhs kybernhshs;

PETALWTHS: Poia;

QEODWROPOYLOS: Thn kinhsh na epiteqei o israhlinos stratos se aoploys polites poy htan panw sta karabia.

PETALWTHS: Einai safhs h dikh mas katadikh.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Thn israhlinh kybernhsh katadikazete. Epimenw. Einai shmantiko na to peite ayto.

PETALWTHS: Apo to Israhl den egine ayth h epembash; Emeis qewroyme oti yphrje stratiwtikh epixeirhsh se dieqnh ydata.

KALARYTHS: To Israhl aitiologhse thn prajh toy sthn ellhnikh kybernhsh, giati to ekane ayto;

PETALWTHS: Perimenoyme epishmh aitiologhsh kai akribh enhmerwsh.

KALARYTHS: Gia ariqmo qymatwn, sas exoyn pei kati h oxi akomh;

PETALWTHS: Oxi, to diereynoyme.

MOYRELATOS: Problhmatizetai h kybernhsh, k. Petalwth, apo diafora stelexh toy PASOK, alla kai melh ths kybernhshs, ta opoia oysiastika zhtoyn, emmesws plhn safws, na klhteyqei o prwhn Prwqypoyrgos k. Shmiths sthn Ejetastikh gia th Siemens;

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei sygkekrimenh qesh. Eimaste yper ths diafaneias, yper ths aytonomhs leitoyrgias twn Ejetastikwn Epitropwn. Kai epanalambanw oti, eidika gia toys prwhn Prwqypoyrgoys, efoson yparxoyn stoixeia oti mporoyn na symballoyn oysiastika sthn alhqeia, mporoyn na kaloyntai. Alla, mono yp' ayth thn proypoqesh.

MOYRELATOS: Kata th gnwmh sas, yparxoyn tetoia stoixeia;

PETALWTHS: Den eimai melos ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs. H Ejetastikh Epitroph qa apofasisei. Nomizw oti ayrio qa synedriasei. Oso parembainoyme stis Ejetastikes Epitropes, toso den prokeitai na bgainei h alhqeia apo aytes.

PETOYRH: Sto Asfalistiko. Dhmosieyma apogeymatinhs efhmeridas ferei sto fws epistolh ths grammatews Koinwnikhs Asfalishs, ek meroys toy ypoyrgoy Ergasias, opoy apokalyptei oti h troika qetei qemata poly sklhra, ektos mnhmonioy, opws gia paradeigma syntajiodothsh sta 40 eth me 480 eyrw syntajh. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, poia einai h stash ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs se endexomenh epimonh tetoiwn apaithsewn.

PETALWTHS: Emeis epimenoyme, kai to eipame kai thn prohgoymenh ebdomada kai malista amfisbhthqhke kai h alhqeia twn legomenwn mas, oti yparxoyn symfwnhqenta mesa sto mnhmonio kai epimenoyme sta symfwnhqenta. Apo kei kai pera, gi` ayto estalh kai ayth h epistolh kai yparxei kai antistoixh epistolh toy k. Loberdoy ston k. Ren, me thn opoia ayto akribws dieykrinizoyme oti yparxei ena mnhmonio, sto opoio exoyn symfwnhqei sygkekrimena zhthmata kai o,ti tiqetai ektos mnhmonioy den prepei na tiqetai pleon.

PETOYRH: Ep` aytoy. Sthn periptwsh poy epimeinoyn, omws, oi ekproswpoi ths troikas, qa hqela na maqw poia qa einai h stash ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Oi ekproswpoi ths troikas qa episkefqoyn th xwra mas se liges hmeres, opote qa yparxei syzhthsh ep` aytoy.

SEGKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, omws, epeidh eipate oti qa meinete sta symfwnhqenta, sto mnhmonio anaferetai rhta gia 40 xronia ergasia.

PETALWTHS: Edw, omws, sthn epistolh tiqetai allo zhthma. Ektos apo ta xronia ergasias, tiqetai kai pososto syntajews epi toy misqoy.

SEGKOS: Ara, ta 40 xronia qa ta nomoqethsete.

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera pws o,ti einai sto mnhmonio, einai symfwnhqen.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ara, stamatate thn koybenta gia otidhpote ektos mnhmonioy. Arneiste na koybentiasete. Ayth einai h stash ths kybernhshs; H epishmh qesh;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei arnhsh na koybentiasoyme, giati h troika, oi ekproswpoi ths troikas qa einai edw, thn epomenh ebdomada. Emeis, aplws dieykrinizoyme th qesh mas, gia thn opoia paleyoyme sygxronws.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Yparxei, omws, mesa sto mnhmonio oti qa yparxei katwtath syntajh. To poso, akribws den exei dieykrinistei akoma, alla ayto den einai ektos mnhmonioy oti qa yparjei mia katwtath syntajh, h opoia mporei na einai gyrw sta 500 eyrw. Ejalloy einai kai desmeysh proeklogikh toy PASOK, ayto.

PETALWTHS: O,ti yparxei sto mnhmonio, einai symfwnhqen. Apo kei kai pera, milame gia ta peraiterw.

MIXAHL: To ti perilambanetai sto mnhmonio, to gnwrizete kai eseis, to gnwrizoyme kai oi Bryjelles, to gnwrizei to DNT, to gnwrizei kai h Eyrwpaikh Kentrikh Trapeza. Ara, h epistolh ayth den einai oti den gnwrize kaneis ti exei symfwnhqei kai ti exei mpei sto mnhmonio. Symfwna me ta reportaz twn efhmeridwn poy den exoyn diaceystei, oyte apo thn Aqhna, oyte apo tis Bryjelles, h epistolh stelnetai kai zhteitai ayto, dioti oi stoxoi poy exoyn mpei sto mnhmonio den ekplhrwnontai apo thn ellhnikh pleyra, oson afora to Asfalistiko. Oyte h iatrofarmakeytikh dapanh meiwnetai...

PETALWTHS: Ayto, apo poy prokyptei; Eseis, pws to antilambaneste ayto, dhladh;

MIXAHL: Egw, den to antilambanomai. Lew ta reportaz ti lene. Lene, loipon, ayto. Den exei diaceystei ayth h plhroforia. Oyte apo dw, oyte apo kei. Kai to erwthma poy tiqetai einai: meiwste gia na kalycete toys stoxoys poy exoyme symfwnhsei. Ayto einai to skeptiko. Ayto to skeptiko, to aporriptete eseis; Ayto me endiaferei.

PETALWTHS: Sas exw hdh apanthsei ws pros ayto. Apo kei kai pera, hdh eimaste pio panw stoys stoxoys ws pros th meiwsh toy elleimmatos. Kai sto Asfalistiko, den prokyptei apo poyqena oti den pianoyme toys stoxoys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite k. Ekproswpe. Epeidh, shmera, teleiwnei o mhnas dhladh kai mporoyme na milhsoyme basei orismenwn reportaz gia ta megeqh. H ektimhsh poy bgainei einai oti den mporei na epiteyxqei o stoxos ths ayjhshs twn kratikwn esodwn kata 14% kai h ayjhsh periorizetai sto +0,3%. Yparxei, loipon, ena keno. Rwtaw loipon: Apo th stigmh poy yparxei ayth h adynamia na epiteyxqoyn oi stoxoi twn esodwn, h kybernhsh qa ejetasei thn epibolh newn metrwn, wste se kapoion allon pylwna, me parembaseis kapoioy alloy pylwna aytwn twn ejodwn, na mporesei na ylopoihqei to programma poy exoyme symfwnhsei;

PETALWTHS: Den ejetazoyme thn epibolh newn metrwn. Kai sas eipa prohgoymenws oti, oson afora sta esoda, akomh den exei ginei o apologismos, giati den exoyn ypologistei ta esoda apo thn ayjhsh toy Eidikoy Foroy Katanalwshs, poy shmainei oti qa yparxei epishmh anakoinwsh kai epishmos apologismos.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ennoeite ta kaysima;

PETALWTHS: Opoy yparxei Eidikos Foros Katanalwshs.

POLYMEROS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei jekinhsei mia seira episkecewn se poleis kai se nomoys ths Perifereias. Mhpws aytes oi episkeceis toy Prwqypoyrgoy kryboyn thn enarjh mias atyphs proeklogikhs periodoy kai briskomaste se aythn kai den to jeroyme akoma;

PETALWTHS: Proeklogikhs periodoy;

POLYMEROS: Enocei twn topikwn, twn aytodioikhtikwn eklogwn.

MIXAHL: H Nea Dhmokratia leei -kai sygnwmh poy parembainw- oti mporei na ginoyn didymes ekloges.

PETALWTHS: Ayto fysika den mporw na to sxoliasw. Opoios pisteyei oti h xwra antexei alles ekloges, as bgei na to pei rhta. Oi aytodioikhtikes ekloges einai kaqorismenes gia tis arxes Noembrioy. Ayto poy kanei o Prwqypoyrgos den exei sxesh me tis aytodioikhtikes ekloges. Ayto poy kanei o Prwqypoyrgos me polla melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy einai na dinei barythta sthn Perifereia, mia barythta h opoia eleipe edw kai polla xronia.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, katanohto. Omws, einai doyleia toy Prwqypoyrgoy na paizei to rolo perifereiarxh, na phgainei se kaqe Perifereia kai na katagrafei ta problhmata; Doyleia toy Prwqypoyrgoy den einai na mhn xanei xrono me tetoia, alla na kaqetai kai na kanei kentriko sxediasmo kai na einai alloi aytoi poy qa kanoyn thn enhmerwsh gia ta problhmata toy topoy apo thn OKE;

PETALWTHS: O kentrikos sxediasmos ginetai, oytws h allws. Emeis antilambanomaste ton Prwqypoyrgo ths xwras na exei amesh sxesh kai amesh antilhch twn problhmatwn twn politwn kai eidikotera twn problhmatwn ths Perifereias. Ean kapoios qewrei oti me to na paei enas Prwqypoyrgos sthn Perifereia, ginetai perifereiarxhs, dhladh ypobaqmizetai o rolos toy, ayto einai qema antilhchs. Emeis exoyme diaforetikh antilhch. Aythn eisprattoyme apo thn koinwnia kai ta apotelesmata aytwn twn episkecewn einai emfanh kai ston ellhniko lao.

SIDERHS: Epejhghsh mono: Den ennooysa to na paei se mia Perifereia, na arxisei na parei gyro oles tis Perifereies.

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Epeidh anaferqhkate ston programmatismo gia tis aytodioikhtikes ekloges, eipate oti einai apofasismenes, mhpws, einai to idio jekaqaro to pososto me to opoio qa eklegetai kaneis; Eite dhmarxos, eite perifereiarxhs;

PETALWTHS: To pososto exei nomoqethqei. Apo kei kai pera, yparxei kai sygkekrimenh dhlwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn, oti me ton eklogiko nomo mporei na jekinhsei mia syzhthsh gia allagh toy posostoy aytoy. Kai isws einai kai h prwth fora poy blepoyme ena komma na einai toso anoixto se diadikasies synaineshs kai malista oson afora ston eklogiko nomo poy qa einai allh mia eykairia na deijei o kaqenas pws ennoei th synainesh gia thn politikh zwh.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Gia ton eklogiko nomo yparxei periptwsh na meinei anoixth h Boylh, etsi wste na chfistei oso to dynaton syntomotera gia na mporesei na isxysei; Ayto poy qa apofasistei gia tis aytodioikhtikes;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai qema ths Boylhs. Einai qema programmatismoy twn nomosxediwn ths kybernhshs.

KALARYTHS: Jerete, yparxei ermhneia to oti h kybernhsh afhnei anoixto to endexomeno na syzhthsei to pososto toy 42%. Apo ta ypoloipa politika kommata den ermhneyetai aparaithtws ws endeijh diallaktikothtas kai boylhshs dialogoy, alla ws ektimhsh oti to PASOK mporei sto deytero gyro na breqei mprosta se antisyspeirwseis kai synergasies, oi opoies den ton boleyoyn kai gi ayto to syzhta. Sas to lew giati, gia paradeigma, thn idia diallaktikothta kai diaqesh dialogoy den edeije o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn ston ``KALLIKRATH''.

PETALWTHS: Oso anafora ston ``KALLIKRATH'', o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, kaqws kai olo to epiteleio toy, ekane mia ejairetikh doyleia me thn pio sobarh antimetwpish poy mporoyse na exei h kybernhsh panw se ena toso shmantiko zhthma gia thn koinwnia, gia to kratos kai fysika gia thn aytodioikhsh. Oi diaboyleyseis poy eginan kai me tis topikes koinwnies htan arketa ikanes gia na yparjei ayto to apotelesma. Oi antidraseis poy yphrxan htan elaxistes kai ayto akribws deixnei oti o sxediasmos toy ``KALLIKRATH'', toylaxiston xwrotajika egine me ton kalytero tropo. Oson afora sto pws blepei h antipoliteysh, ta alla kommata to oti menei isws anoixto ena zhthma gia to pososto, nomizw oti kai h Nea Dhmokratia exei topoqethqei qetika ws pros ayto.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ep aytoy. H Boylh chfise nomo gia to 50 + 1. Qa pate twra na to noqeysete ayto, na to allajete, epeidh mporei na symbadizoyn oi epimeroys epidiwjeis oi dikies sas me ths Neas Dhmokratias, gia tis epomenes ekloges;

PETALWTHS: Kaqoloy. Emeis eixame apoch, thn eixame ekfrasei, kai ayth h apoch mas exei katastei kai nomos toy kratoys. Apo kei kai pera, omws, epeidh qeloyme na leitoyrgoyme dhmokratika kai yper toy politikoy systhmatos, enos gnhsioy politikoy systhmatos eklogwn, eimaste anoixtoi, ean xreiastei na syzhthsoyme kai ep aytoy toy zhthmatos.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Dhladh, na allajete th nomoqesia poy apofasisate prin merikes meres.

PETALWTHS: Den sas eipa oti qa thn allajoyme. Aplws, einai ena qema poy mporei na janasyzhthqei, ean teqei kai an yparxoyn oi proypoqeseis kai oi endeijeis oti yparxei kalyterh lysh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ma, h dikia sas apoch einai oti h Dhmokratia yphreteitai akribws apo ayto poy chfisthke...

PETALWTHS: Twra to chfisame.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Yparxoyn ekptwseis h anastolh;

PETALWTHS: Kamia ekptwsh den qa yparxei. Ean kapoios mas peisei oti mporei na einai alliws ta pragmata, eimaste anoixtoi na to ejetasoyme.

SEGKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o Prwqypoyrgos yioqetei th qesh poy diatypwse xqes o Qeodwros Pagkalos kai prin apo liges hmeres o proedros toy LAOS, oti sta prosfata epeisodia ejw apo th Boylh, symmeteixan kai stelexh toy KKE; Giati an thn yioqetei, epibebaiwnetai oti ayth h probokatsia ekporeyetai apo to Megaro Majimoy.

PETALWTHS: Kamia probokatsia den ekporeyetai apo to Megaro Majimoy. Einai alhqeia oti to KKE kai to PAME exei mia ikanothta na blepei pantoy probokatsies. Otan blepeis, omws, pantoy probokatsies xaneis thn pragmatikothta kai den mporeis na thn antimetwpiseis opws prepei. H qesh mas einai jekaqarh. Apo kei kai pera, den exoyme na poyme tipote allo.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Tis dhlwseis Pagkaloy, tis yioqetei h kybernhsh h den tis yioqetei;

PETALWTHS: O k. Pagkalos se mia synenteyjh, eipe thn apoch toy. Den tiqetai zhthma h oxi twn apocewn toy. Apo kei kai pera, kaqenas qa prepei na deixnei thn apaitoymenh ypeyqynothta. Kai den einai mono o k. Pagkalos h h kybernhsh. Oles oi pleyres qa prepei na einai ypeyqynes sthn politikh zwh.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Sthn idia synenteyjh o k. Pagkalos eipe oti to KKE qelei th laikh dystyxia kai thn koryfwsh ths anergias. Den einai, toylaxiston, proklhtiko ena melos ths kybernhshs - poy me ta teleytaia metra poy exei chfisei exei odhghsei se ejaqliwsh ekatommyria ergazomenoys - na kanei polemo ``lasphs'' sto KKE;

PETALWTHS: Polemo ``lasphs'', ws synhqws, kanei to KKE pros to PASOK. Kai den to kanei twra, to kanei xronia. Apo kei kai pera, einai mia apoch kai kaqenas se ayth th Dhmokratia dikaioytai na leei tis apoceis toy.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Einai polemos ``lasphs'' h politikh antiparaqesh poy kanei to KKE me thn kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: An htan politikh antiparaqesh mono, den qa yphrxe tetoio zhthma. Dystyxws, omws, edw kai xronia zoyme mia apajiwsh toy KKE pros to PASOK kai den mporei kai to KKE na exei thn apaithsh na mhn krinetai apo kanenan. Asylia se ayth thn politikh zwh kai sthn politikh skech den mporei na yparxei apo kanenan gia kanenan.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Jerete eseis kapoia qesh toy KKE poy na odhgei to lao se laikh dystyxia h se koryfwsh ths anergias; Exei programma to KKE, gi ayto sas rwtaw.

PETALWTHS: Fysika exei programma to KKE kai einai ypeyqyno kai gia to programma toy, to opoio krinei o laos stis ekloges.

MARAQIAS: Hqela mia dieykrinish. Pisteyete oti o prwhn Prwqypoyrgos k Shmiths mporei na symbalei sth diereynhsh ths alhqeias, oson afora thn ypoqesh SIEMENS; Kai an nai, me poion tropo;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai krithrio to opoio qa ejetasei h Ejetastikh Epitroph kai oxi emeis.

SPANOY: Ektos apo ayth thn aytonohth kai rhth katadikh, opws eipate, thn stratiwtikhs epixeirhshs sto Israhl, yparxei kati allo poy qa kanete;

PETALWTHS: Hdh, kanoyme energeies, apo th stigmh poy arxisan na ejelissontai ayta ta tragika gegonota, etsi wste na enhmerwqoyme...

SPANOY: Oxi, ennow gia thn katadikh, gia thn timwria, gia ton paradeigmatismo. Oxi gia thn enhmerwsh. Ayto einai aytonohto.

PETALWTHS: Gia na proboyme se opoiadhpote energeia, qa prepei prwta na exoyme plhrh eikona kai epishmh enhmerwsh kai ayto kanoyme.

Sas eyxaristw.

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