Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-05-11

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 11 Maioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 266938174

Ekdosh 1

brf1105

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 11 Maioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H kybernhsh toy PASOK kai o Prwqypoyrgos Giwrgos Papandreoy jekinhsan apo thn prwth hmera ths diakybernhshs ena prwtofanh kai polymetwpo agwna. Enan agwna stoys kolpoys ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs gia thn anorqwsh ths xamenhs ajiopistias ths xwras kai parallhla thn afypnish ths eyrwpaikhs koinhs gnwmhs.

Katadeijame pws h Ellada para tis adynamies kai ta sfalmata ths einai apla h koryfh toy pagoboynoy sthn prwtofanh epiqesh twn anejelegktwn dieqnwn agorwn, enantion toy eyrw kai ths staqerothtas ths eyrwzwnhs. Prwtostathsame sth dhmioyrgia enos eyrwpaikoy mhxanismoy sthrijhs, dhladh mias paneyrwpaikhs amynas apenanti stoys dieqneis kerdoskopoys. Shmera, aytos o mhxanismos leitoyrgei kai h Ellada qa einai se qesh na ejyphretei tis daneiakes ths anagkes, gia ta epomena xronia, aproskopta, xwris h piesh twn agorwn na straggalizei thn anaptyjh ths xwras kai tis qysies twn politwn.

Sth Synodo Koryfhs ths 7hs Maioy o mhxanismos aytos phre diaforetikh morfh, wste na einai se qesh na prostateysei oles tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs poy exoyn problhmata h qa exoyn problhmata sto mellon kai qa briskontai sto stoxastro ths dieqnoys kerdoskopias. Oi apofaseis ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs mas dikaiwsan. Apo edw kai pera proxwrame sto dromo twn rizikwn allagwn sto kratos kai ston tropo poy leitoyrgei, proxwrame sto dromo ths anaptyjhs me tropo staqero dhmokratiko poy empedwnei to aisqhma dikaioy.

Se ayth thn prospaqeia kalesame kai kaloyme oles tis politikes dynameis toy topoy se systrateysh kai synergasia. H ypeyqynothta h h aneyqynothta, to qarros h h lipocyxia twn politikwn dynamewn, h eilikrinhs synainesh h h ejyphrethsh mikropolitikwn symferontwn, se ayth thn krisimh periodo krinontai kaqhmerina kai aysthra apo toys Ellhnes polites. To mellon aytoy toy topoy ejartatai apo oloys mas, alla o braxyproqesmos programmatismos ths kybernhshs fainetai oti apodidei kai exoyme sygkekrimena paradeigmata poy katadeiknyoyn oti arxizei na mpainei mia tajh sta pragmata.

Kai sygkekrimena, symfwna me ta proswrina diaqesima stoixeia toy kratikoy proypologismoy gia to A' tetramhno toy 2010, Ianoyario mexri Aprilio, to elleimma se sxesh me to antistoixo diasthma toy 2009 meiwqhke kata 41,8%, enanti ethsioy stoxoy meiwshs kata 35,1% poy problepetai sto Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs. Epipleon, symfwna me ta sygkritika oikonomika stoixeia twn elegxwn poy pragmatopoihse to Swma Diwjhs Oikonomikoy Egklhmatos toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn ton Aprilio toy 2010, se sxesh me ton antistoixo mhna toy 2009, to synoliko ektimwmeno ycos prostimwn kai Foroy Prostiqemenhs Ajias paroysiazei ayjhsh 68%. Briskomaste, omws, mono sthn arxh kai oloi mazi mporoyme na allajoyme ta pragmata sth xwra mas.

Na sas anaferw epishs oti -hdh exei anakoinwqei, alla einai shmantiko gia to poies prospaqeies ginontai kai apodidoyn- dhmosieythke stis 6 Maioy to Proedriko Diatagma poy afora sth systash eidikhs yphresias me titlo ``Epixeirhsiakh Monada Anaptyjhs'' me edra th Qessalonikh, kati poy einai prwtofanes gia th Boreia Ellada kai eidika gia th Qessalonikh. Einai mia desmeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy poy ylopoieitai kai einai ejairetika shmantiko giati gia prwth fora h Boreia Ellada kai h Qessalonikh apoktoyn enan eidiko rolo, se sxesh me thn anaptyjiakh politikh kai prooptikh ths Boreias Elladas, ths Makedonias, ths Dytikhs Makedonias kai ths Anatolikhs Qrakhs. H epixeirhsiakh ayth monada exei san skopo to sxediasmo, thn prowqhsh kai ektelesh anaptyjiakwn programmatwn kai drasewn sthn eyryterh perioxh ths Makedonias kai ths Qrakhs, me tis arxes ths aeiforias kai ths periballontikhs eyqynhs.

Afora:

" To eqniko strathgiko plaisio anaforas

" Ta perifereiaka epixeirhsiaka programmata

" Tis xrhmatodothseis ths Eyrwpaikhs Trapezas Ependysewn

" To programma Interect poy afora diasynoriakes draseis

" Akomh, to sxediasmo kai thn epopteia eidikoy programmatos anaptyjhs gia thn mhtropolitikh perioxh ths Qessalonikhs

" To sxediasmo kai epopteia, kai efarmogh twn symprajewn dhmosioy kai idiwtikoy tomea

" Thn ajiologhsh twn ependysewn

" To sxediasmo twn politikwn anaptyjhs

" Thn yposthrijh prowqhshs perifereiakwn oikonomikwn diakratikwn sxesewn kai mia seira apo draseis oi opoies einai prwtofaneis eidika gia th Boreio Ellada.

Epishs, qa hqela na anaferqw stis prospaqeies poy ginontai gia thn antimetwpish toy megaloy problhmatos ths anergias poy mastizei th xwra mas kai na sas enhmerwsw oti hdh se sxesh me ta trexonta programmata toy OAED, yparxei ena programma gia thn tetraeth epidothsh eisforwn. Exoyn prokhryxqei 40.000 qeseis kai hdh exoyn ypoblhqei 6.659 aithseis. Gia th dieth epidothsh eisforwn exoyn prokhryxqei 25.000 qeseis kai exoyn ypoblhqei peripoy 3.500 aithseis. Synolika, dhladh, exoyn ypoblhqei aithseis gia 10.112 qeseis -oi perissoteres sto tetraetes- se ena mhna mono poy einai anoixto to programma.

Ws pros th gynaikeia epixeirhmatikothta yparxoyn 4.000 qeseis, opoy problepetai na kalyfqoyn oles, kaqws yparxoyn kai 50.000 qeseis gia ton epoxiko toyrismo, poy aytes tis hmeres dieyrynetai to programma kai me ton toyrismo poy afora sth 12eth diarkeia.

Akomh, na tonisw oti yparxoyn nees ryqmiseis poy aforoyn ston OAED, sto nomo poy chfisthke thn prohgoymenh ebdomada gia ta metra, gia thn efarmogh toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, poy aforoyn se enan prwtofanh qesmo thn epitagh epanentajhs sthn agora ergasias. Mia poly shmantikh tomh poy aposkopei sthn energopoihsh twn epidotoymenwn anergwn me thn metatroph toy epidomatos anergias se oikonomikh enisxysh gia thn ergasia kai thn ekpaideysh toys. Ston idio akomh nomo periexontai programmata ergasias epidotoymenwn h makroxronia anergwn, hlikias 55 ews 64 etwn, opws kai programmata ergasias gia neoys ews 24 etwn, me symbash apokthshs ergasiakhs empeirias, kati poy den exei sxesh me ta gnwsta stage, poy isxyoyn oytws h allws gia ton idiwtiko tomea. Prokeitai safws gia mia anabaqmish, afoy afora periptwseis poy fqanoyn mexri toys 12 mhnes, me to 80% toy katwtatoy basikoy misqoy, omws me tis asfalistikes eisfores gia syntajh, asqeneia kai epaggelmatiko kindyno na tis kalyptei o OAED.

Kai bebaia epikeitai kai mia deyterh desmh programmatwn toy OAED, opoy ektimatai oti qa einai etoimh h ylopoihsh sta mesa aytoy toy mhna, toy Maioy.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

POLYMEROS: Xqes, o Proedros ths Dhmokratias sth synanthsh twn politikwn arxhgwn, proteine, metajy allwn, thn arsh ths boyleytikhs asylias, thn aysthropoihsh toy elegxoy poqen esxes, thn allagh ths ryqmishs peri eyqynhs ypoyrgwn. Qelw na rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh einai etoimh, se ayth th fash, na proxwrhsei se aytes tis allages, an dhladh qa doyme epiteloys toys ypaitioys ayths ths krishs na logodotoyn kai na timwroyntai h qa synexisoyn, telos pantwn, oi ejetastikes epitropes na exoyn enan xarakthra ``diadikastiko''.

PETALWTHS: To aisqhma ths atimwrhsias einai ena aisqhma poy h kybernhsh to proslambanei opws oloi mas, opws oloi oi polites kai h antimetwpish ayths ths katastashs poy yparxei ws perirreoysa atmosfaira safws kai den einai eyxaristh. Kai emeis, eidika emeis ws kybernhsh, exoyme parei prwtoboylies, etsi wste na yparxei elegxos ths dhmosias zwhs, twn leitoyrgwn ths dhmosias zwhs kai se anwtero politiko epipedo, alla kai se xamhlo epipedo, opoy yparxei parabatikothta dhmosioy h kratikoy leitoyrgoy. Kai gi` ayto akribws to logo kai oi ejetastikes epitropes htan aytes poy protaqhkan, systhqhkan kai jekinhsan na leitoyrgoyn me dikh mas prwtoboylia, kati poy qa prepei na mhn to apajiwnoyme. Giati oi ejetastikes epitropes otan qeloyn na paragoyn apotelesma, pragmatika paragoyn. Kai yparxoyn paradeigmata kai gi` ayto. Na ypenqymisw oti hdh briskontai sto telos twn ergasiwn toys dyo ejetastikes epitropes, h mia gia to Batopaidi kai h allh gia th Siemens kai epikeintai kai alles ejetastikes epitropes.

H ejetastikh epitroph gia thn oikonomia qa einai mia shmantikh prwtoboylia, opoy pragmatika qa prepei na katalogistoyn, mesa apo ayth oi eyqynes twn politikwn proswpwn. Apo ekei kai pera, opws gnwrizete, hdh yparxei h entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ginetai megalh kai sklhrh doyleia ws pros ayto, se ola ta ypoyrgeia na anadeixqoyn opoies parabatikes symperifores yparxoyn, poy exoyn sxesh me to kaqe ypoyrgeio, etsi wste pragmatika kaneis na mhn aisqanetai oti einai anejelegktos otan askei dhmosia ejoysia kai otan diaxeirizetai dhmosio xrhma.

SIDERHS: Den ta hjere o Proedros ths Dhmokratias ola ayta poy mas lete; Ta hjere profanws. Apla ta qewrei aneparkh kai zhthse, metajy allwn, kai to idiwnymo gia th forodiafygh. Ep` aytoy, pws topoqeteiste;

PETALWTHS: To ti gnwrize o Proedros ths Dhmokratias einai qema poy den mporw na ermhneysw egw. Ayta omws - exete dikaio- exoyn anakoinwqei kai fysika einai monon h arxh. Mporoyme na kanoyme poly perissotera kai gi` ayto leme oti xreiazontai oloi oi foreis toy politikoy - kyriws- systhmatos, na drasoyn syllogika, etsi wste na yparxei apotelesma. Ws pros thn protash toy Proedroy Dhmokratias, h opoia einai sebasth kai poly ajiologh, gia th metatroph toy adikhmatos forodiafyghs se idiwnymo, h kybernhsh epifylaxthke na to syzhthsei, na to epejergastei, giati yparxoyn kai nomotexnika problhmata. Einai, omws, poly shmantiko kai ayto einai to pneyma kai toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias, alla kai ayto poy proekyce apo th xqesinh synanthsh twn politikwn arxhgwn, oti prepei na dwsoyme telos se ayto to aisqhma atimwrhsias politwn kai politikwn proswpwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh afhsate anapanthto to qema ths boyleytikhs asylias kyrie Ekproswpe, qa eishghqei thn katarghsh aytoy toy kaqestwtos h kybernhsh h oxi; Giati syzhthqhke xqes.

PETALWTHS: H boyleytikh asylia pragmatika einai ena zhthma to opoio diasyrei thn politikh zwh toy topoy, mias kai h dynatothta poy yparxei -kai shmera yparxei h nomoqetikh dynatothta kai problech h mallon ypoxrewsh twn boyleytwn na airoyn th boyleytikh asylia- opoy den yparxei politiko adikhma, opoy yparxei drash poy den sxetizetai me thn politikh drash toy boyleyth. Dystyxws, omws, kati tetoio apodeiknyetai oti den ginetai sthn prajh. Einai omws epibeblhmeno, pleon, oi boyleytes na exoyn thn idia antimetwpish -toylaxiston sta adikhmata poy den exoyn sxesh me thn politikh toys drash- poy exei o aplos Ellhnas poliths. Kai ayto h kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na to ryqmisei me tetoio tropo, etsi wste na mhn yparxei to aisqhma ths atimwrhsias stoys boyleytes. Apo ekei kai pera, bebaia, na ypenqymisw oti sxetika me to poqen esxes poy einai ena poly shmantiko zhthma kai afora th dhmosia zwh kai thn politikh zwh, hdh yparxei nomoqetikh prwtoboylia poy syzhteitai aytes tis hmeres -shmera kai ayrio- sto Koinoboylio, etsi wste to poqen esxes twn boyleytwn kai twn politikwn proswpwn genikotera, na einai pragmatika sto plaisio toy pragmatikoy elegxoy twn perioysiakwn stoixeiwn poy apoktoyn oi politikoi kai oxi mia typikh diadikasia, poy dystyxws ginotan mexri twra.

MOSXOBAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh den akoyw na syzhtate kaqoloy gia thn peristolh twn kratikwn epixorhghsewn sta kommata, eiste diateqeimenoi na kanete kati tetoio; Giati ayta ta diaxeirizontai ta idia ta kommata. Akoyw na milate gia misqoys boyleytwn ktl. Ena deytero dieykrinistiko einai, an moy epitrepete, an skepteste kai me poion tropo th meiwsh toy ariqmoy twn boyleytwn apo 300 se 200. Kai trito poy qelw na rwthsw, einai ean o mhxanismos o xqesinos, o proxqesinos en pash periptwsei, o eyrwpaikos mhxanismos gia tis ypoloipes xwres ths eyrwzwnhs einai idios m` ayton poy exoyme emeis.

PETALWTHS: To qema twn oikonomikwn twn kommatwn bebaiws kai to skeftomaste kai hdh exei teqei sth xqesinh synanthsh twn politikwn arxhgwn ypo ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias. Emeis eimaste aytoi oi opoioi synainoyme kai qewroyme oti einai epibeblhmeno na mpei tajh sta oikonomika twn kommatwn. Yparxei sygkekrimenh protash poy exei ginei apo ton Prwqypoyrgo, otan hmastan sthn ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, etsi wste na yparxei plhrhs elegxos twn oikonomikwn twn kommatwn. Kai malista, as qymhqoyme oti yphrxe antidrash, eidika apo to Kommoynistiko Komma Ellados poy exei mia diaforetikh qewrhsh. O kaqenas exei th qewrhsh toy panw se ayto to qema. Emeis omws qeloyme ta oikonomika twn kommatwn, gia ta opoia yparxei ena qolo topio -einai alhqeia, ola ayta ta xronia- na yparxei plhrhs elegxos, na yparxei diafaneia, na gnwrizoyme poy phgainei kai to teleytaio eyrw ths kratikhs enisxyshs, giati yparxei eyloga mia amfibolia gia to pws diaxeirizontai ta idia ta kommata ta oikonomika toys. Ayto qa teqei kai einai sto plaisio ths swsths diaxeirishs toy dhmosioy xrhmatos, alla kai ths en genei leitoyrgias toy politikoy systhmatos. Toylaxiston h kybernhsh to qetei se ayto to plaisio.

Ws pros thn protash toy arxhgoy ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Samara, gia th meiwsh twn boyleytwn apo 300 se 200, emeis apanthsame - o Prwqypoyrgos xqes sth synanthsh twn politikwn arxhgwn- oti kati tetoio mporei na ejetastei mono sto plaisio ths allaghs toy eklogikoy nomoy. Apo mono toy einai ena apospasmatiko metro, to opoio den bohqaei se tipote. Oytws h allws exoyn ekfrastei polles apoceis ws pros ayto. Yphrje kai boyleyths toy kinhmatos mas poy eipe ``giati 200, 150 boyleytes arkoyn''. Einai ena qema to opoio einai men shmantiko, alla ean to doyme apospasmatika einai kaqara jekommeno kai den leitoyrgei yper toy politikoy systhmatos. Ekeino poy pragmatika qa einai katalytiko gia th swsth leitoyrgia toy politikoy systhmatos einai h allagh toy eklogikoy nomoy. Kai malista to PASOK hdh eixe desmeyqei proeklogika ston programmatismo kai sto programma poy eixe kataqesei kai fysika entos syntomoy xronikoy diasthmatos qa exoyme protash gia neo eklogiko nomo, etsi wste na mporesoyme na jefygoyme apo tis paqogeneies poy dhmioyrgei ayto to eklogiko systhma, opws tis gnwrizoyme oloi, poly kala.

Ws pros to trito erwthma sas, emeis anoijame to dromo gia na dhmioyrghqei enas eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs poy einai para poly shmantiko. Oi synqhkes oi opoies perigrafontai se ayton ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs kai oi oroi, prosidiazoyn ws pros th synqesh toy mhxanismoy, oti problepetai meiktos mhxanismos apo Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, Komision kai Dieqnes Nomismatiko Tameio, me ayto poy hdh leitoyrgei gia thn Ellada. Oi oroi, fysika, oi idiaiteroi qa ejeidikeytoyn. Omws einai kati antistoixo me ayto poy, dystyxws, prwtoi emeis -kai eytyxws gia thn Eyrwph apo edw kai pera- dokimasame.

KOYTRAS: Ean mpei kapoia allh xwra sto mhxanismo kai ta epitokia einai xamhlotera, ayto shmainei oti aytomatws qa einai kai gia thn Ellada xamhlotera ta epitokia;

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti ean mpei allh xwra sto mhxanismo me xamhlotera epitokia, qa einai mia eykairia kai gia emas na epanadiapragmateytoyme ta epitokia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai genikotera, ean oi oroi me toys opoioys qa leitoyrgei o neos mhxanismos einai diaforetikoi kai ligotero xalaroi, as to poyme, gia tis alles xwres se sxesh me ayto poy efarmosthke sto ``peiramatozwo'' Ellada, h xwra mas qa zhthsei na paei me toys neoys oroys; Qa kanei epanadiapragmateysh ths arxikhs symfwnias;

PETALWTHS: Ayto qewreitai aytonohto. Alla, gia na mhn trefoyme kai megales prosdokies, hdh sth synedriash toy Ecofin ths Kyriakhs, yphrxan pieseis kai telika yparxei apofash na yparxoyn prosqeta metra, peran toy Programmatos Staqerothtas, poy exoyn kataqesei alles xwres. Kai makari na mporoyse na xalarwsei aytos o mhxanismos me tis proypoqeseis poy qetei, gia na mporesoyme na tis ekmetalleyqoyme kai emeis. Einai aytonohto oti an yparxoyn pio eynoikoi oroi, ennoeite, qa toys ekmetalleyqoyme kai emeis.

POLYMEROS: Aytoys toys eynoikoys oroys, ean toys ferete, qa allajoyn kai ta sklhra metra poy hdh exoyn epibalei oi Bryjelles kai to D.N.T. sth xwra mas; Dhladh, yparxei periptwsh na doyme tropopoihsh twn sklhrwn metrwn pros to kalytero;

PETALWTHS: Ejartatai ti ennoeite. Tis sklhres apofaseis kai polla ap` ayta ta metra ta opoia phrame, eprepe na ta paroyme oytws h allws, gia na yparxei tajh sta dhmosionomika pragmata ths xwras mas. Apo ekei kai pera, bebaiws, opoy mporesoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme pio eynoikes synqhkes gia th zwh twn Ellhnwn politwn, einai aytonohto oti qa to kanoyme.

GIANNISHS: Na sas qesw ena paremferes erwthma, na epanelqoyme ligo sto qema ths synanthshs twn politikwn arxhgwn xqes: O k. Samaras, se dhlwseis toy, eipe oti den eipe oxi sto mhxanismo, oti eipe oxi sta sygkekrimena metra. Pws sxoliazete th dhlwsh ayth toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs; Qewreite oti yparxei endexomenws kapoia dosh ypokrisias se ayth;

PETALWTHS: Einai alhqeia oti h Nea Dhmokratia ekei poy milaei gia synainesh kai ekei poy zhtaei sygnwmh apo ton ellhniko lao o k. Samaras, sthn prajh polles fores fainetai oti den exoyn antilhfqei oi ths Neas Dhmokratias ti synebh, poies einai oi terasties kai egklhmatikes eyqynes ths Neas Dhmokratias kai ti politikh stash qa krathsoyn shmera. Einai logikh h amhxania poy exoyn, qa prepei omws otan zhtame sygnwmh apo ton ellhniko lao na to ennooyme akomh perissotero. Kai otan qeloyme na kanoyme sygkekrimenes protaseis oi opoies den einai koinotypes, na einai kai pio sygkentrwmenes, pio epikentrwmenes sto symferon toy kratoys kai toy ellhnikoy laoy. Kai fainetai oti h Nea Dhmokratia polles fores jexnaei to stoxo poy qa eprepe na exei ayth h ypotiqemenh synainesh thn opoia dinei. Einai poly shmantiko ayto, giati emeis perimename h Nea Dhmokratia na synaisqanqei, estw kai twra, tis eyqynes ths kai sth Boylh thn prohgoymenh ebdomada na krathsei mia diaforetikh stash, toylaxiston ws pros thn chfoforia.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh anaferqhkate sth Boylh thn prohgoymenh ebdomada, ekei o Proedros ths kybernhshs ekane mia epiqesh proswpikh, yparxei kai mia epistolh, an den kanw laqos, toy k. Markopoyloy gi` ayto to qema, gia kapoies koyrtines poy stoixisan 28.000 eyrw...

PETALWTHS: Den egine proswpikh epiqesh, aplws ``opoios exei th myga, mygiazetai''.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Etsi ejelhfqh. Yparxei kai ena dhmosieyma sabbatiatikhs efhmeridas, stis ``Apokalyceis'' sto prwto toys fyllo, poy mila gia 200.000 eyrw gia koyrtines sto ypoyrgeio Paideias, shmera. Yparxei kapoia apanthsh gi` ayto; Gnwrize, isws, o Prwqypoyrgos otan ekane ayth thn epiqesh sth Nea Dhmokratia genikotera;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, o Prwqypoyrgos den ekane proswpikh epiqesh se kanenan. Aplws, edwse ena deigma ths terastias spatalhs poy ginotan kai h opoia einai pleon gnwsth se ola ta epipeda, epi kybernhsewn ths Neas Dhmokratias. Mia spatalh h opoia qa apokalyfqei. Kai qa apokalyfqei, xwris ayto na shmainei oti prospaqoyme na leitoyrghsoyme rebansistika. Aplws, to aisqhma ths atimwrhsias den qa prepei na kalyptei kai na prostateyei toys politikoys kai tis politikes qeseis ths Dhmokratias.

Oson afora sto diagwnismo twn 200.000 eyrw gia to ypoyrgeio Paideias gia toys mhxanismoys skiashs, hdh yparxei apanthsh apo to ypoyrgeio Paideias poy kalyptei thn kybernhsh.

Symplhrwmatika, qa sas pw oti tetoioy eidoys spatales, oi opoies dystyxws einai to elaxisto poy mporei na pei kapoios, yparxoyn myriades gia th Nea Dhmokratia poy sygkentrwnontai kai qa apokalyfqoyn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nwritera oi ypallhloi sto ypoyrgeio Paideias, as poyme, epi galazias diakybernhshs, den xreiazontan mhxanismoys skiashs, doyleyan. Twra, giati na paei h k. Diamantopoyloy kai na kanei ayto; Mhpws prepei na basizomaste sto goysto mias kyrias, giati alliws einai mia kyria kai alliws enas kyrios ypoyrgos;

PETALWTHS: Eidika gia to ypoyrgeio Paideias, den gnwrizw an exete paei, kalo qa einai na pate sto ypoyrgiko grafeio poy egine epi Neas Dhmokratias kai epiplwqhke epi Neas Dhmokratias kai na deite th xlidh poy yparxei sto sygkekrimeno ypoyrgiko grafeio: Sto posa salonia yparxoyn ekei, sto posa xalia yparxoyn kai an ayto prosidiazei me grafeio eyrwpaioy ypoyrgoy. Ayta emeis ta entopizoyme, omws einai diaforetiko ayto, dhladh h spatalh poy ginotan epi Neas Dhmokratias kai diaforetikes oi anagkes skiashs enos kthrioy opoy ergazontai ypallhloi kai qa prepei na ergazontai se anqrwpines synqhkes. Einai teleiws diaforetiko kai fysika den exei sxesh me to goysto toy kaqe ypoyrgoy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Qa kanete Ejetastikh, loipon, gia to ypoyrgeio Paideias kai gia thn prohgoymenh hgesia; Giati, to na lete logia, einai allo kai allo na kanete mia prajh. Qa to kanete epta mhnes meta;

PETALWTHS: Den qa kanoyme Ejetastikh gia thn kaqe yperbash dhmosias dapanhs. Opws sas eipa prohgoymenws kai opws gnwrizete apo thn prohgoymenh ebdomada, sthn kybernhsh leitoyrgei mia diadikasia sylloghs stoixeiwn spatalhs, etsi wste na apokalyfqei kai dhmosia h spatalh poy ginotan epi twn hmerwn ths Neas Dhmokratias. Alla kai fysika, opoy ginetai spatalh kai mexri shmera na anakalyptetai.

XIDIROGLOY: Milate synexws gia eyqynes ths Neas Dhmokratias. Sthn arxh toy briefing shmeiwsa oti milhsate gia thn afypnish ths eyrwpaikhs koinhs gnwmhs kai milhsate gia th syneisfora ths kybernhshs sas sthn paneyrwpaikh amyna enantia sthn krish. Tis dikes sas eyqynes gia thn afypnish twn Eyrwpaiwn kerdoskopwn, mesw aprosekths politikhs rhtorikhs, tis exete analogistei;

PETALWTHS: Qa tis analogizomastan, ean ta pragmata htan toso aploika. Ayto poy diakineitai - kai eidika apo thn pleyra ths Neas Dhmokratias- einai oti h dikh mas rhtorikh afypnise toys kerdoskopoys. Ean eimaste toso afeleis ws ellhnikos laos poy na pistecoyme oti dyo koybentes poy eipe kapoios ypoyrgos h o Prwqypoyrgos h opoios analyths sthn Ellada, afypnise toys kerdoskopoys, tote nomizw oti den exoyme kamia idea gia to pws leitoyrgoyn oi dieqneis agores -pagkosmiopoihmenes pleon- kai pws leitoyrgoyn oi kerdoskopoi, oi opoioi mesa se mia hmera mporoyn na kerdisoyn disekatommyria eyrw. Oi kerdoskopoi den kerdizoyn oyte afypnizontai apo mia dhlwsh h apo mia koybenta opoioydhpote politikoy. Afypnizontai apo politikes tis opoies akoloyqoyn oi kybernhseis. Apo thn anajiopistia poy dhmioyrgoyn oi kybernhseis, mia anajiopistia poy mas proikodothse h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias kai apo sygkekrimenes prajeis, otan to dhmosionomiko elleimma mias xwras ektroxiazetai, otan yparxei tetoia dhmosionomikh katastash poy fainetai oti mia xwra einai bora twn kerdoskopwn. Makari na htan toso aploika kai afelh ta pragmata. Qa htan poly kalytera gia ton ellhniko lao.

SEGKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh h kybernhsh koptetai gia thn eikona toy politikoy systhmatos, skeftetai se ayth th syzhthsh gia ton eklogiko nomo na yioqethsei thn protash ths Aristeras gia thn aplh analogikh h qa paei se ena systhma monoedrikwn perifereiwn poy qa eynoei apokleistika ta dyo megala kommata;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, otan teqei zhthma eklogikoy nomoy, qa yparxei kai aposafhnish gia poio eklogiko nomo milame. Gia thn aplh analogikh, exoyme topoqethqei polles fores, opws kai h Aristera. Emas, mas endiaferei ena dikaio eklogiko systhma poy na anadeiknyei toys ekproswpoys toy ellhnikoy laoy sto Koinoboylio me ton pio antiproswpeytiko tropo. Ena eklogiko systhma poy epiteloys qa stamathsei ayto to diaylo poy yparxei metajy politikhs kai xrhmatodothshs. Ena eklogiko systhma to opoio qa diasfalizei me ton kalytero dynato tropo staqeres kybernhseis.

Aytes qa einai oi parametroi poy qa labei ypoch ths h kybernhsh. Apo kei kai pera, fysika, epeidh o eklogikos nomos einai mia koryfaia politikh diadikasia ths Dhmokratias, qa yparxei dialogos, qa yparxei diaboyleysh, qa yparxei dynatothta se ola ta kommata, se oloys toys politikoys foreis, alla kai stoys aploys polites, na kanoyn tis dikes toys protaseis kai na symballoyn me to diko toys tropo sth leitoyrgia toy dhmokratikoy systhmatos kai toy koinoboyleytikoy systhmatos me ton kalytero tropo.

GIANNISHS: To endexomeno mias mellontikhs sygkybernhshs einai ena senario poy h kybernhsh qa to ejetaze pote; Mias sygkybernhshs, ean ta pragmata ejelixqoyn kata tropo poly xeirotero gia thn oikonomia kai gia to politiko systhma en genei.

PETALWTHS: H xwra mas diaqetei mia kybernhsh, h opoia apodeiknyetai oti paei para poly kala. Mia kybernhsh h opoia den leitoyrgei me tropo alazoniko, mia kybernhsh poy zhtei th synainesh, apo tis prwtes hmeres, ths askhshs ths diakybernhshs ths, otan kaneis den mporoyse na dianohqei oti qa fqasoyme se ayto to dyskolo oikonomiko shmeio.

Kybernhseis synergasias den prokeitai na dexqoyme. Synainesh omws kai synergasia olwn twn dynamewn -fysika oxi se kybernhtiko epipedo- oxi aplws dexomaste, alla kai to apozhtoyme. Yparxei dynatothta twn politikwn dynamewn na symballoyn me ton tropo toys, etsi wste na mporesei h xwra mas na bgei apo ayto to adiejodo. Kai pragmatika, opoy oi politikes dynameis deixnoyn thn apaitoymenh ypeyqynothta, ayto ginetai me ton kalytero tropo.

PITTARAS: Qa hqela na rwthsw dyo pragmata. Prwton, ayto poy kataggeilate peri xlidhs, xalia kai salonia, an to exete diathrhsei mexri shmera h to exete allajei. Deyteron, ean twra poy exete xalarwsei meta apo ayth thn piesh twn agorwn kai ayto poy eipate eseis ``straggalismo'', ean o Prwqypoyrgos skeftetai na proxwrhsei se allages sto kybernhtiko sxhma.

PETALWTHS: Ws pros to prwto erwthma sas, yparxoyn zhthmata poy den mporoyn na allajoyn. Den mporei na fygoyn ta salonia h na jhlwqoyn kapoia fwtistika. O tropos poy politeyomaste ws pros to sebasmo toy dhmosioy xrhmatos einai safws diaforetikos. To deijame apo thn prwth stigmh, otan antikatasthsame ta ypoyrgika aytokinhta, tis megales mersentes - kapoies apo aytes htan qwrakismenes- tis terasties spatales poy ginontan apo ta ypoyrgeia, tis opoies emeis safws kai den kanoyme. Oi epiloges mas einai safeis.

Oson afora to deytero erwthma sas gia ton anasxhmatismo: Den yparxei tetoia skech sthn kybernhsh.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, akoysa ton k. Samara, sthn omilia toy shmera sto SEB, na leei oti to elleimma toy 2009 den qa jepernoyse to 8,5% an efarmozotan h politikh ths Neas Dhmokratias kai oti ektinaxqhke panw apo to 13% me dhmioyrgikh logistikh poy efarmose h dikh sas kybernhsh.

PETALWTHS: Apanthsa prohgoymenws oti o k. Samaras th sygnwmh poy zhthse apo ton ellhniko lao, kalo qa htan na thn ennoei. Kai an to epixeirhma ayto ths Neas Dhmokratias, oti to pragmatiko elleimma den htan 12,6% poy paroysiazame emeis, alla htan xamhlotero, hrqe h idia h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, hrqe h idia h Eurostat kai anakoinwse oti oxi aplws einai toso, alla einai megalytero kai plhsiazei sto 14%. An o k. Samaras amfisbhtei kai tetoia stoixeia, antilambanetai kapoios oti qa prepei na exei kalyteroys oikonomikoys symboyloys h na kanei tis oikonomikes analyseis me megalyterh periskech.

Ws pros to ean akoloyqoysame tis protaseis ths Neas Dhmokratias: Ma, h Nea Dhmokratia kybernoyse epi pentemisi xronia, o k. Samaras htan koryfaio stelexos ths Neas Dhmokratias, htan ypoyrgos, symmeteixe se oles tis draseis ths Neas Dhmokratias kai entos kai ektos Boylhs. Epishs, otan h Nea Dhmokratia egkateleipe th Boylh gia na mhn parapemcei ton k. Paylidh se proanakritikh Epitroph h gia na kalycei ypoqeseis kai skandalwn Batopaidioy, tote h Nea Dhmokratia eixe thn eykairia na askhsei tis politikes ths, tis opoies dystyxws askhse kai fqasame mexris edw.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Epeidh sthn arxh ths enhmerwshs mas eipate oti etoimazetai h kybernhsh gia rizikes allages sto kratos me tropo dhmokratiko, afethria twn dhmokratikwn allagwn einai to koinoboyleytiko prajikophma poy ekane o k. Papakwnstantinoy kai h kybernhsh thn prohgoymenh Paraskeyh sth Boylh;

PETALWTHS: Ton oro ``koinoboyleytiko prajikophma'' safws kai den ton dexomaste. Hdh, yparxei anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn gia th diadikasia poy akoloyqhqhke. Kai qa prepei kapote na antilhfqoyme oloi mas, anejarthta apo to an symfwnoyme h diafwnoyme me tis diadikasies poy akoloyqhqhkan, oti exoyme eyqynh apenanti se ayto to kratos na mh xrewkophsei. Kai ayth thn eyqynh kai thn ypoxrewsh thn askhsame ws kybernhsh me ton pio dokimo, kalytero kai ypeyqyno tropo. Apo kei kai pera, emeis safws kai endiaferomaste gia thn allagh sto kratos. Kai as mhn jexname oti to prwto nomoqethma poy kataqesame einai na epanaferoyme thn antikeimenikothta stis proslhceis sto ellhniko Dhmosio. Kai otan leme kratos, ennooyme kai thn aytodioikhsh, ennooyme kai ton ``KALLIKRATH'', o opoios erxetai otan kapoioi mas elegan oti den qa tolmhsete na ferete neo systhma topikhs aytodioikhshs poy exei sxesh kai me to epiteliko kratos. Emeis, aytes tis prospaqeies qa tis synexisoyme. Einai prospaqeies poy ginontai me megalo kopo kai ginontai parallhla me th diaswsh ths xwras. Kai apo th stigmh poy perasame ton prwto skopelo kai anoigoyme ena neo kyklo apasxolhshs me thn pragmatikothta pleon, twra einai poy qa koryfwqoyn oi draseis mas, etsi wste se syntomo xroniko diasthma na mporoyme na exoyme ena kratos eyelikto, ena kratos poy qa einai sthn yphresia toy polith, makria apo pelateiakes sxeseis, opws htan mexri twra.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Ma, afairesate to dikaiwma ths chfoy stoys boyleytes.

PETALWTHS: Ayto to lete eseis.

QEODWROPOYLOS: To leei h tropologia, den to lew egw.

PETALWTHS: O kaqenas exei th dikh toy qewrhsh.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Den afairesate to dikaiwma ths chfoy;

PETALWTHS: Oxi. Yparxei Syntagma, yparxei Kanonismos ths Boylhs kai symfwna me to Syntagma chfisthke ayto poy chfisthke thn Paraskeyh.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Na enhmerwnontai oi boyleytes, oxi na chfizoyn.

PETALWTHS: Ayto to lete eseis. Einai dikh sas ermhneia kai einai dikaiwma toy kaqenos na kanei tis ermhneies toy.

STRATAKHS: Peran apo to an qa epiferei h oxi xalarwsh o neos mhxanismos poy dhmioyrghqhke apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, h kybernhsh qa epimeinei kai gia poio logo sthn katabolh twn apozhmiwsewn se apolymenoys me doseis, ws na eprokeito peri polykatasthmatos; Kai poios o logos na proxwrate se epitages, opws lete, epanentajhs, th stigmh poy me thn politikh ayth oysiastika sprwxnete sthn anergia kai idiaitera kosmo poy einai se kapoia hlikia h exei mia empeiria h mia megalh proyphresia. Mporeite na mas peite se ti ejyphretei ayto to metro sto opoio epimenei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den sprwxnoyme pros thn anergia. Dystyxws, h anergia einai ena antikeimeniko fainomeno. Ena fainomeno poy mporei na exei tis politikes, ideologikes aities, aities poy mporei na exoyn diaforetikh qewrhsh apo ton kaqena. Otan, omws, exoyme mia anergia poy yparxei, opoios den th blepei, nomizw oti den mporei na kanei analyseis. Emeis exoyme ypoxrewsh na kalycoyme toys anergoys me sygkekrimenoys tropoys. Kai kapoioi apo toys tropoys perilambanontai se ayta ta programmata poy sas eipa.

STRATAKHS: H enstash, an qelete, h dikia moy, isws apo ta arqra me th megalyterh episkecimothta tis teleytaies hmeres, einai akribws ayto to arqro poy anarthqhke sto News gr. Dhladh, oi apolyseis, oi doseis, h perikoph k.t.l. Yparxei para poly megalh anhsyxia toy kosmoy kai idiaiterws oswn ergazontai gia poly megalo xroniko diasthma se mia epixeirhma, osoi einai panw apo 50 etwn kai leei to ejhs poly aplo kai ayto sas metaferw: Giati o ergodoths, (den akoygetai) apolysei ayton ton ergazomeno kai na proslabei enan twn 600 eyrw h 539 eyrw, opws qa ginei me to neo systhma;

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai mia pragmatikothta. H agwnia toy kosmoy kai twn politwn einai safhs. Kai safws emeis th symmerizomaste. Kai gi` ayto akribws opoy yparxoyn apolyseis anqrwpwn megalyterhs hlikias poy exoyn problhma, pragmatika prospaqoyme na broyme mia lysh, etsi wste na taktopoioyntai kai aytoi. Ayth einai h politikh ths kybernhshs.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Bohqaei ta dhmosia oikonomika na meiwsete tis apozhmiwseis twn apolymenwn ergazomenwn; Den katalabainw giati. Einai mia kinhsh poy enisxyei tis epixeirhseis, toys epixeirhmaties. Dinete ena dwro stoys epixeirhmaties. Ayth einai h metafrash, meiwnontas thn apozhmiwsh ston apolymeno.

PETALWTHS: Ayth einai h dikh sas metafrash. Emeis qeloyme thn ygih epixeirhmatikothta. Xwris epixeirhseis den mporoyn na yparxoyn ergazomenoi. Opoios den tis qelei, einai diko toy dikaiwma. Yparxoyn synqhkes antagwnismoy, antagwnistikothtas. Zoyme se mia eleyqerh oikonomia kai oi oroi kai oi synqhkes poy yparxoyn sthn agora einai aytoi poy epiballoyn na lambanontai kapoia metra me ton kalytero tropo, etsi wste kai oi ergazomenoi na wfeloyntai apo programmata prostasias ta opoia ginontai apo thn kybernhsh. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta kai fysika den mporoyme na thn arnhqoyme.

SIDERHS: Prohgoymenws eipate oti qa epiballete diafaneia sta eswterika twn kommatwn. Wraia, ikanopoihtiko. Ekeino poy den mas eipate einai oti se periodo poy oi Ellhnes penontai kai kobete misqoys kai syntajeis, an qa kopei se megalo pososto h oxi h epixorhghsh twn kommatwn.

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti ayth einai h boylhsh ths kybernhshs. Yparxei sxediasmos gia ta oikonomika twn kommatwn, na einai taktopoihmena, na einai symmazemena, na antapokrinontai stoys dyskoloys kairoys poy pername kai fysika na yparxei diafaneia.

SIDERHS: Thn perasmenh ebdomada xaqhkan treis anqrwpoi. Kapoios eyqynetai gi` aytoys. Den yphrje oyte mia paraithsh. O k. Xrysoxoidhs antikeimenika einai epityxhmenos ypoyrgos, giati ejarqrwse dyo tromokratikes organwseis. Den mporoysate na xasete to politiko kefalaio Xrysoxoidhs. O arxhgos ths Astynomias den htan ypeyqynos; Enas endiamesos tmhmatarxhs den htan ypeyqynos; O arxhgos ths omadas poy eixe thn eyqynh ekeinoy toy xwroy, den htan ypeyqynos; Prowqoyme kai to dhmosio hqos na mhn yparjei mia paraithsh gia treis anqrwpoys poy xaqhkan;

PETALWTHS: To dhmosio hqos mporei na pei kapoios oti epanorqwnetai kai yparxei sthn prokeimenh periptwsh, otan breqoyn oi enoxoi aytwn twn prajewn. Kai epeidh kai h EL.AS. kai to ypoyrgeio Prostasias toy Polith doyleyoyn pros ayth thn kateyqynsh - kai doyleyoyn me ton kalytero tropo- otan qa breqoyn oi enoxoi, qa yparxei kai dikaiwsh kai qa yparxei kai epanorqwsh toy dhmosioy hqoys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Yparxei kapoia ereyna sto eswteriko ths Astynomias, na doyn ekei oi ypeyqynoi poy eprepe na fylane ayto to tetragwno, ayto to perasma, mhpws ekanan kapoio laqos kai toys jefygan koykoyloforoi; Oi koykoyloforoi den htan xiliades kaqe fora, to jeroyme. Yparxei kapoia ereyna; Mhpws yphrje kai kapoia astoxia apo toys mhxanismoys toy kratoys kai eixame ayto to tragiko apotelesma;

PETALWTHS: Sthn aiqoysa ayth den mporw na bgalw porisma gia to ti egine. Einai safes...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Den sas milw gia porisma k. Ekproswpe. Milw gia to an ginetai kapoia ereyna, gia kapoies eyqynes toy kratoys. To kratos einai gia na prostateyei toys polites.

PETALWTHS: H EL.AS. kanei me poly kalo tropo th doyleia ths kai ayto, opws sas eipa, qa fanei sto apotelesma. Apo kei kai pera, gia osoys gnwrizoyn - kai nomizw oti oloi oi Ellhnes gnwrizoyme tis synqhkes poy egine ayto to aparadekto dolofoniko tragiko gegonos- antilambanontai kai to an qa prepei na ginei kati diaforetiko h an qa mporoyse na ginei kati diaforetiko. Kai ayto sas to lew xwris na prodikazw tipote. As perimenoyme na oloklhrwqei h ereyna gi` aytes tis treis dolofonies - giati gia dolofonies prokeitai- kai tote mporoyme na katalogisoyme h oxi eyqynes.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Sas milw gia ereyna se ola ta epipeda. Lew loipon, h kybernhsh gnwrizei an ginetai ereyna, an to sygkekrimeno kthrio ofeile kai eixe h den eixe, en pash periptwsei, ejodo kindynoy gia na glytwsoyn anqrwpoi; Ginetai ereyna;

PETALWTHS: Ginetai ereyna pros oles tis kateyqynseis. Prokeitai gia dolofonikes energeies, oi opoies ejetazontai me oloys toys tropoys kai se ola ta epipeda.

XIDIROGLOY: Tazei h kybernhsh ``lagoys me petraxhlia'' stoys xiliades metanastes poy apoktoyn dikaiwma chfoy stis ekloges twn OTA ton erxomeno Noembrio; Kai sas rwtw bash shmerinwn dhmosieymatwn poy kanoyn logo gia politikh synallagh.

PETALWTHS: Epeidh den to katalabainw, mporeite na moy to ejhghsete; Dhladh ti tazei;

XIDIROGLOY: Symfwna me dhmosieymata, shmera, paragontes tis kybernhshs ferontai na tazoyn qeseis ergasias se metanastes, oi opoioi apoktoyn dikaiwma chfoy stis epomenes ekloges twn OTA ton Noembrio.

PETALWTHS: Yparxoyn sygkekrimenes kataggelies gia sygkekrimenes qeseis kai gia sygkekrimenoys paragontes;

XIDIROGLOY: Sas eipa oti yparxoyn sygkekrimena dhmosieymata sto shmerino Typo.

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti ayta ta dhmosieymata einai anajia sxoliwn.

KOYTRAS: Dyo pragmata. Prwton: Skeftetai o k. Papandreoy, opws anakoinwse o k. Samaras na synanthqei me toys arxhgoys twn kommatwn ths Aristeras. Kai deyteron: Epeidh milate gia xlidh sta ypoyrgeia...

PETALWTHS: O k. Samaras to anakoinwse.

KOYTRAS: O k. Samaras anakoinwse oti qa epidiwjei synanthseis. Kai an to skeftetai na prajei to idio kai o k. Papandreoy. Kai to deytero: Epeidh milate gia xlidh sta ypoyrgeia o skopos poy bgazete ayta ta qemata pros ta ejw einai giati qa zhthsete pisw ta lefta apo toys ypoyrgoys h apokleistika gia th dhmosia diapompeysh toys;

PETALWTHS: H dhmosia diapompeysh den mas afora ws skech, oyte eimaste ayths ths praktikhs. Exoyme dikaiwma kai kyriws ypoxrewsh, opoy yparxei dhmosio xrhma kai opoy yparxei kataspatalhsh kai toy teleytaioy dhmosioy eyrw, na to apotypwnoyme kai na katalogizoyme eyqynes. Den erxomaste rebansistika. Hdh kapoios synadelfos sas, eipe prohgoymenws, ``meta apo epta mhnes'', poy shmainei oti kapoioi mas katalogizoyn oti arghsame kiolas. Emeis, omws, epeidh leitoyrgoyme cyxraima kai oxi en qermo, endiaferomaste na yparxei dikaiosynh se oles tis dhmosies dapanes.

Oson anafora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, gnwrizoyme oti to aithma gia th sygklish politikwn arxhgwn, poy shmainei kai thn symmetoxh twn politikwn arxhgwn twn dyo aristerwn kommatwn toy Koinoboylioy, ypoblhqhke apo ton Prwqypoyrgo k. G. Papandreoy. To oti oi dyo arxhgoi, o k. Tsipras kai h k. Paparhga den qelhsan na erqoyn se ayth th synanthsh, ypo ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias, einai qema dikhs toys eyqynhs kai dikhs toys apofashs. Emeis, qelame oloi oi politikoi arxhgoi na einai xqes ekei gia na syzhthsoyme gia th diafaneia kai na broyme tropoys kalyterhs diaxeirishs kai pio diafanoys diaxeirishs toy politikoy systhmatos.

MOSXOBA: O k. Papakwnstantinoy eipe xqes kai dhmosiws ayto poy apo to reportaz proekypte oti eixe pei kai sto KTE Oikonomikwn: oti an apaithqoyn kai alla metra, o idios qa exei apotyxei, profanws qa paraithqei kai den qa einai ypoyrgos. An apaithqoyn kai alla metra, den qa synista apotyxia gia oloklhrh thn kybernhsh kai gia ton Prwqypoyrgo proswpika;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, ayth th stigmh den mporoyme na milame gia peraiterw metra. Ta metra poy phrame kai oi apofaseis -gnwrizontas kai thn sklhrothta toys polles fores- einai eparkh wste na bgoyme apo thn krish, me bash to programma mas kai me bash to metrhma kai thn kostologhsh olwn aytwn twn metrwn.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh ta idia legate kai prin treis ebdomades, akribws ta idia. Den skefteste metra. Me aformh, loipon, ayta poy eipe xqes o k. Papakwnstantinoy se mia thleoptikh ekpomph ston SKAI, epibebaiwnontas kai palaioteres dhlwseis toy dhladh, oti otan koybentiaze me to DNT toy elegan oti den xreiazontai alla metra. Jafnika, loipon, toy zhthsan kai alla metra. Kai ejefrase kai o idios thn aporia toy. Qelw na rwthsw to ejhs, malista xrhsimopoiwntas kai mia frash boyleyth toy PASOK, se mia synedriash: Ton doyleyan ton k. Papakwnstantinoy h eseis doyleyete emas;

PETALWTHS: Egw den exw kamia diaqesh na sas doylecw, gi` ayto na eiste sigoyros.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ws kybernhsh, o k. Papakwnstantinoy klp.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh den exei diaqesh na ``doylecei'' kanenan. Einai allwste toso krisimes oi synqhkes. Ta metra ta opoia syzhtoynto, syzhtoytan me thn legomenh troika toy DNT, ths E.E. kai ths Komision. Ekei yphrxe syzhthsh gia ta metra kai tis apofaseis kai oi diapragmateyseis ginotan sto epipedo ths troikas me thn ellhnikh kybernhsh. Kai gia na sas pw kati poy einai sto periqwrio olhs ayths ths syzhthshs, to DNT se aytes tis syzhthseis, htan ayto poy zhtoyse ta ligotera metra. Ara den yparxei kamia antifash.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai. Para tayta etsi opws to lete zhtoyse metra. Den eipe den qeloyme metra. Zhtoyse para tayta...

PETALWTHS: Makari na mporoysame na bgainame xwris metra.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Para tayta o k. Papakwnstantinoy elege oti den qa mas zhthsoyn metra.

PETALWTHS: Miloyse gia to DNT. H diapragmateysh poy egine gia na ftasoyme edw, den htan diapragmateysh me to DNT, htan diapragmateysh me ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs, poy aplws ena meros einai DNT, yphrxe troika, yphrxan treis pleyres. Gia ayto sas anaferw oti den yparxei antifash.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Skeftetai h kybernhsh na ayjhsei ton FPA sta farmaka kai sta trofima poy shmera brisketai sto 11%, sto 23%, opws problepei to mnhmonio poy exei ypogracei; To problepei gia to 2011. Qa to ferei pio nwris h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Oxi.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qa to ferei, omws.

PETALWTHS: Sas apantaw oxi.

POLYMEROS: Gnwrizete sthn kybernhsh oti 66 ekat. eyrw ekanan ``ftera'' apo ta Tameia toy TEADY kai anazhtoyntai; Yparxei sxetiko dhmosieyma se ebdomadiaia efhmerida kai malista afora eisfores 20.000 ypallhlwn toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn apo thn periodo 2001 - 2004.

PETALWTHS: Afora thn diaxeirish twn perioysiakwn stoixeiwn twn asfalistikwn tameiwn poy egine epi Neas Dhmokratias. Einai gnwsth h ypoqesh ths paranomhs diaxeirishs twn xrhmatwn twn asfalistikwn tameiwn. Nomizw, oti exei sxesh kai me thn ypoqesh ths ``Akropolhs''. Kai fysika yparxei ekkremhs dikastikh diadikasia. Kai epitrecte moy na sas pw oti hdh yparxei, fysika dhmosieymenh paraggelia toy ypoyrgoy Dikaiosynhs k. Kastanidh oti se tetoioy eidoys ypoqeseis kai sygkekrimena kai gia ta domhmena omologa kai gia thn ``Aspis Pronoia'', na yparxei kat' ejairesh - symfwna me ton Kwdika Poinikhs Dikonomias opws problepetai - epejergasia twn stoixeiwn aytwn, kata proteraiothta, giati einai ypoqeseis ayjhmenoy dhmosioy symferontos.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Thn Paraskeyh erxetai sthn Aqhna, o Toyrkos proedros k. Erntogan. Mexri twra h kybernhsh exei pei oti aytes oi syzhthseis qa einai krisimes kai qa yparjoyn sygkekrimenes apofaseis. Pws qa einai krisimes kai qa yparjoyn sygkekrimenes apofaseis, otan h Toyrkia den exei akomh arei thn apeilh toy casus belli gia thn xwra mas.

PETALWTHS: Emeis, exoyme mia sygkekrimenh logikh ws pros ths ejwterikh mas politikh. Emeis den apomonwnomaste, oyte aporriptoyme tis sxeseis me opoia krath - kai eidika ta geitonika mas - exoyn amfisbhthseis, exoyn amfibolies, yparxei qolo topio stis sxeseis mas. Alloimono an hmastan fobikoi kai ftaname na mhn syzhtame me kanenan me ton opoion exoyme problhmata. Emeis, exoyme orioqethsei ta problhmata. Dexomaste oti to monadiko problhma me thn Toyrkia einai h yfalokrhpida. Apo kei kai pera, omws, exoyme ypoxrewsh, epeidh prokeitai gia mia geitonikh mas xwra, gia mia xwra poy qelei thn entajh ths sthn E.E., h opoia pernaei kai mesa apo tis sxeseis ths me thn Ellada, na exoyme sxeseis, na syzhtame kai fysika aytes oi sxeseis exoyn para polla epipeda. Ayto, loipon, einai apofash mas. Exoyme mia ejwstrefh ejwterikh politikh kai syzhtame mazi toys, giati den exoyme na fobhqoyme tipota apolytws.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Kai dexomenoi oti mas apeilei me polemo.

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa.

MOSXOBAS: Exete kapoio sxolio gia th dhlwsh toy prwhn stenoy prwqypoyrgikoy synergath toy k. Kotzia, symfwna me thn opoia o k. Papandreoy einai omhros neofileleyqerwn synergatwn kai qa hqela enan palio Papandreoy kontra sta symferonta.

PETALWTHS: Den mporw na sxoliazw tis apoceis kaqe Ellhna polith, oi opoies einai sebastes kai poikiloyn se poly megalo eyros.

STRATAKHS: Pws sxoliazei h kybernhsh thn topoqethsh toy k. Flwridh, eishghth kai malista toy nomosxedioy gia thn kyrwsh ths symfwnias, poy milhse oti en kairw polemoy sth xwra kapoioi ypoyrgoi symperiferontai ws san na briskontai se sxolikes ekdromes. Kai anaferqhke se sygkekrimena. Den yparxei, eipe, kanena metro gia na ejisorrophqoyn ta baria metra eis baros twn politwn me metra poy qa toys anakoyfisoyn apo tis agores h apo thn kerdoskopia.

PETALWTHS: Anaferotan, nomizw, se sygkekrimena metra o k. Flwridhs. Emeis, ayto poy kanoyme ws kybernhsh, einai se aytes tis dyskoles, sklhres apofaseis poy exoyme parei, na pairnoyme metra antirrophshs, ta opoia arxisan na fainontai. Kai fysika qa fainontai poly perissotero sto mellon.

Sas eyxaristw.

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