Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-01-11

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 11 Ianoyarioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 245518210

Ekdosh 1

brf1110

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 11 Ianoyarioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H kybernhsh proxwra sth megalyterh dioikhtikh epanastash twn teleytaiwn etwn. Pistoi stis jekaqares proeklogikes kai programmatikes mas dhlwseis, epixeiroyme apofasistika enan oloklhrwmeno sxediasmo se epipedo topikhs aytodioikhshs kai epitelikoy kratoys. Prowqoyme ena synoliko sxedio gia thn aytodioikhsh kai th dioikhsh poy exei monima xarakthristika. Allazoyme klimaka dioikhshs, pragma ejairetika shmantiko apo mono toy, kai epanaqemeliwnoyme qesmika, leitoyrgika kai hqika th dioikhsh. Me sebasmo sta symperasmata poy exoyn prokycei apo thn efarmogh toy prwtoy ``Kapodistria'' kai tis nees anagkes poy dhmioyrgoyntai. Dhmioyrgoyme ena oxhma anatropwn, opws dhlwse xqes kai o Prwqypoyrgos sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio.

H anadiarqrwsh ths topikhs aytodioikhshs kai ths kentrikhs dioikhshs einai proklhsh, alla kai sygxronws desmeysh gia thn kybernhsh. Den afora monodiastata tis epomenes ekloges. Afora, kyriws, tis epomenes genies. Dinei ena safes metarryqmistiko stigma, stelnei polla mhnymata gia th sobarothta kai thn apofasistikothta me thn opoia yphretoyme thn apostolh mas. Den einai apla eqnika wfelimh, alla aparaithth.

O ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Ragkoyshs aneptyje xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio tis basikes arxes kai domes toy nomoqethmatos gia th nea arxitektonikh ths aytodioikhshs kai ths dioikhshs kai paroysiase, me safh tropo, ta apotelesmata ayths ths metarryqmishs. H metarryqmish ayth qa ejoikonomhsei afenos oikonomikoys poroys, mesw ths orqologikoterhs leitoyrgias twn newn Organismwn Topikhs Aytodioikhshs, alla kai toy kratoys genikotera. Qa epitrecei th leitoyrgikh aytodynamia toys, qa anabaqmisei to epipedo twn yphresiwn poy parexontai ston polith, qa symballei energa kai apotelesmatika sthn anaptyjiakh epanekkinhsh ths xwras mas.

H anadiarqrwsh twn topikwn dynamewn kai sysxetismwn poy qa qesei se nea bash th dhmokratikh leitoyrgia ths aytodioikhshs, qa anadeijei telika mia nea sxesh empistosynhs metajy kratoys kai polith, me tropo aplo, eydiakrito kai stereo. Anatrepoyme to sygkentrwtismo, thn pelateiakh antilhch toy kratoys kai ton kratismo.

Qa hqela sto shmeio ayto na tonisw oti h dioikhtikh metarryqmish ths xwras apotelei eqniko stoxo kai gi` ayto ajizei thn ameristh yposthrijh olwn mas. Xwris dogmatismo tiqetai se dhmosia diaboyleysh kai qetei toys pantes pro twn eyqynwn toys gi` aytes tis megales domikes allages, tis opoies epixeirei h kybernhsh. Kai gi` ayto akribws epidiwkoyme th synainesh gia th qespish toys. Epidiwkoyme, epishs, th dhmioyrgikh symmetoxh olwn gia thn ylopoihsh toys. Th nea ayth metarryqmish th xreiazetai o topos, th xreiazetai kai thn anamenei o Ellhnas poliths.

Gi` ayto stis aytodioikhtikes ekloges toy Noembrh toy 2010, qa arxisei kai epishmws mia nea epoxh gia thn aytodioikhsh kai gia toys polites.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MOSXOBAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ayta poy mas lete fainetai oti den ta symmerizontai arketoi ypoyrgoi ths kybernhshs. Apo to reportaz prokyptei oti yphrxan polles enstaseis. To ena erwthma einai, giati eixan aytes tis enstaseis. Kai to deytero erwthma einai, oi ypoyrgoi poy htan koryfaia stelexh toy PASOK, den hjeran oti ayto htan mia programmatikh dhlwsh ths kybernhshs, polles fores diatypwqeisa apo ton idio ton Prwqypoyrgo; Se ti synistantai oi enstaseis aytes;

PETALWTHS: Na pw prwta ap` ola oti ena stoixeio to opoio qa prepei na krathsoyme -kai einai safws yper ths kybernhshs- einai oti to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio ayths ths kybernhshs leitoyrgei kai pali, pragmatika ws Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, sth xwra mas. Poy shmainei oti syzhtioyntai epi makro xrono sygkekrimena zhthmata, ekfrazontai oles oi apoceis. Kai an skefqoyme ta ypoyrgika symboylia toy parelqontos, twn pentaleptwn kai twn dekapentaleptwn, ayto apo mono toy dinei akribws kai to stigma ths shmerinhs kybernhshs. Apo kei kai pera, eidikotera, qa prepei na ypenqymisw oti ayto poy syzhthsame xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, opws eishghqhke o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Ragkoyshs, apotelei aplws ena sxedio epi twn arxwn. Teqhke, dhladh, pros diaboyleysh kai sto idio to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Kai malista, otan exoyme na kanoyme me tetoies megales anatropes, me toso megales dioikhtikes allages gia thn topikh aytodioikhsh, alla kai gia to kratos genikotera, einai epomeno kai einai  ennoeitai- poly shmantiko kai gia th xwra mas, alla kai gia thn idia th Dhmokratia, na ekfrastoyn oles oi apoceis, olwn twn ypoyrgwn. Giati ta zhthmata poy qa anoijoyn me ayto to sxedio gia th dioikhtikh metarryqmish, qa einai para poly megala. Sas diabebaiwnw oti antirrhseis epi ths arxhs, safws kai den yphrxan. Einai proeklogikh desmeysh toy PASOK na erqei kai na anatrecei to dioikhtiko xarth ths xwras, fernontas mia nea nootropia kai kanontas anatropes kai sto epiteliko kratos, oxi aplws sthn aytodioikhsh. Kai ayto to symmerizontai oloi oi ypoyrgoi, oi opoioi safestata exoyn sygkekrimenes idiaiteres apoceis kai qeseis gia ta epimeroys zhthmata.

MOSXOBAS: Epeidh eipate oti antirrhseis epi ths arxhs, safws den yphrjan, nomizw oti einai antirrhsh epi ths arxhs na leei kapoios oti prepei na spasoyn oi perifereies, gia paradeigma sto lekanopedio Attikhs. Otan legate proeklogika gia perifereiakh aytodioikhsh, ennooysate eklogh apo ena swma, enos perifereiarxh, o opoios qa exei aytes tis armodiothtes. Ap` o,ti katalaba apo to reportaz, kapoies enstaseis ypoyrgwn synistato sto oti den hqelan na exei perissoteres armodiothtes apo to boyleyth h kai apo ton ypoyrgo akomh, o perifereiarxhs.

PETALWTHS: Ws pros thn arxh toy nomosxedioy den yphrxe kamia diafwnia. Ws pros th xwroqethsh: Den teqhke akomh zhthma xwroqethshs, giati ayto apaitei synaineseis, apaitei mia shmantikh syzhthsh kai diaboyleysh, oxi mono me toys ypoyrgoys kai toys boyleytes toy PASOK kai twn allwn kommatwn, alla kai me toys paragontes, topikoys foreis, toys polites. Kai otan qa teqei qema, otan ejetasoyme dhladh ayth th metarryqmish kai se xwroqetiko plaisio, tote qa yparxoyn, ontws, epimeroys syzhthseis, apoceis kai gia to rolo kai ton ariqmo twn perifereiwn. Kai ayta qa entassontai ekei. Epi ths arxhs omws den yphrxe kamia diafwnia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, otan o antiproedros ths kybernhshs, o k. Pagkalos, symfwna me to reportaz, ekfrazei thn epifylajh toy, giati o perifereiarxhs Attikhs qa eklegetai apo 4 ekatommyria anqrwpoys, dhladh, amesws apo panw einai mono o Prwqypoyrgos, den einai mia sobarh diafwnia gia to poy mporei na odhghsei aytos o qesmos twn yperisxyrwn perifereiarxwn;

PETALWTHS: Diafwnia den yparxei. Den einai diafwnia, einai mia apoch h opoia qa syzhthqei. Qa yparxoyn kai polles tetoies apoceis poy qa syzhthqoyn. Ayto omws exei na kanei me ton ariqmo twn perifereiwn, exei na kanei me to gewgrafiko eyros twn perifereiwn poy qa syzhthqei se deyterh fash.

PITTARAS: Eseis bazete twra se diaboyleysh kati to opoio perigracate ws sxedio epi ths arxhs kai se ayto endexomenws na mhn mporei na diafwnhsei kai kapoios. Wstoso, h oysia einai alloy. Einai oi armodiothtes kai oi poroi. Se ayto, oi qeseis sas poies einai; Dhladh, bazete se diaboyleysh kati to opoio einai ena perigrafiko pragma poy apla to exete epanabaptisei apo ``Kapodistria'' se ``Kallikrath''. Oi qeseis sas gia ta ypoloipa qemata, giati ekei qa yparjei diafwnia, dhladh, poia qa einai ta oria twn dhmwn, poioi qa einai oi poroi, poies qa einai oi armodiothtes. Ekei h qesh sas poia einai;

PETALWTHS: Ekei yparxei akribes, epejergasmeno sxedio ths kybernhshs to opoio epishs qa teqei se Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Qa yparjei diaboyleysh opoy ola ayta qa ejeidikeytoyn. Qa ejeidikeytoyn oi armodiothtes oi opoies en merei perigrafhkan kai se ayto to sxedio nomoy sto xqesino Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, alla qa yparxei ejeidikeysh kai porwn. Hdh, yphrje kai xqes mia protash gia to FPA o opoios yparxei kai eisprattetai, na einai enas poros ths aytodioikhshs, etsi wste kai h topikh aytodioikhsh kai oi polites na ginoyn koinwnoi ayths ths megalhs ypoqeshs, na eisprattontai oi foroi gia na phgainoyn apeyqeias sthn topikh aytodioikhsh. Yparxoyn apoceis, yparxoyn protaseis. Ola ayta qa ejeidikeytoyn se deytero xrono, gi` ayto epanalambanw oti xqes syzhthsame mono epi ths arxhs. Mias arxhs poy einai para poly shmantikh. Den einai epanalhch palaioterwn, oyte sxediwn nomoy, oyte protasewn, oyte apocewn. Gi` ayto akribws eipa kai prohgoymenws, kai to eipe kai o Prwqypoyrgos xqes, oti emeis den prosdokoyme kai den eyelpistoyme me ayto to nomoqethma na dhmioyrghsoyme aplws ena neo xarth gia typikoys logoys. Eyelpistoyme na feroyme jana sto proskhnio kai na janasyzhthsoyme tis sxeseis kratoys kai polith mesa apo mia diaforetikh qewrhsh kai ths aytodioikhshs kai toy epitelikoy kratoys, me opoies paqogeneies exoyn dhmioyrghqei ola ayta ta xronia.

KOYTRAS: Kostos gi` ayth thn allagh yparxei; Yparxei meleth; Poso qa kostisei; H KEDKE leei oti einai gyrw sta 4 disekatommyria. Akoyga ton k. Paylopoylo to prwi se kapoio radiofwno, o opoios to idio eipe, oti eixame thn proqesh, den eixame ta lefta.

PETALWTHS: O k. Paylopoylos kalo qa htan na mas pei poia proqesh eixe, giati den eidame pote ena tetoio sxedio, estw kai se epipedo proqesewn. Ara, to na erxetai h Nea Dhmokratia shmera kai na leei oti htan ena sxedio diko ths poy emeis aplws to anakoinwsame, nomizw oti einai h megalyterh ypokrisia poy qa mporoysame na akoysoyme. Den eixe pote proqesh h Nea Dhmokratia na kanei mia tetoia metarryqmish, giati den pisteye sthn topikh aytodioikhsh. Ayto htan desmeysh toy PASOK. Emeis, thn topikh aytodioikhsh ejakoloyqoyme na th blepoyme kai malista pio isxyra kai pio baqia pleon, ws ena baqro ths Dhmokratias kai se ayto to epipedo ergazomaste. Yparxei kostologhsh. Emeis ayto poy exoyme na poyme  kai ayta qa ejeidikeytoyn se ameso xrono- ws pros ton oikonomiko tomea einai oti akribws qa yparxei ejoikonomhsh apo th synainesh twn dhmwn, apo th nea dioikhtikh anadiarqrwsh ths xwras.

MIXAHL: An katalabainw kala, stoxos sas ayths ths epi ths arxhs syzhthshs poy tiqetai se diaboyleysh, einai na peistoyn kai oi armodioi paragontes ths Topikhs Aytodioikhshs, alla kai h ellhnikh koinwnia kai oi politikes dynameis, gia thn anagkaiothta ayths ths metarryqmishs kai meta qa yparxei to deytero stadio, poy qa einai h ejeidikeysh kai olh h oysia. Gia na ginei, omws, ayto proypoqetei ena pragma: Na peisete prwtistws toys eaytoys sas. Dioti oi antidraseis, akoma kai epi ths arxhs, ekfrazontai kyriws apo stelexh dika sas, sthn perifereia, isxyroys dhmarxoys, poy einai syndedemenoi me boyleytes, poy ejyphretoyn eklogh boyleytwn twn dyo megalwn kommatwn. Qa sygkroysteite me aytoys; Qa analabete to kostos na sygkroysteite me aytoys h aplws qa meinei h diaboyleysh kai opoy katalhjei;

PETALWTHS: Na epanalabw oti emeis, me ayth th dioikhtikh anadiarqrwsh, stoxeyoyme kata toy sygkentrwtismoy, kata twn pelateiakwn sxesewn kai kata toy kratismoy. Gnwrizoyme tis paqogeneies poy dhmioyrghqhkan gyrw apo mia sygkekrimenh dioikhtikh diarqrwsh ths xwras, gyrw apo ena sygkekrimeno systhma ekloghs dhmarxwn, nomarxwn kai topikwn arxontwn. Ola ayta, emeis ta qetoyme pro twn eyqynwn ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. Gi` ayto, akribws, kanoyme kai tis megales anatropes kai tis baqies rizikes allages poy xreiazetai h xwra. Parolo poy kapoioi elegan oti den eimaste etoimoi, anoijame ayta ta megala qemata kai yparxei h desmeysh mas oti oi epomenes aytodioikhtikes ekloges toy fqinopwroy toy 2010, qa ginoyn me th nea dioikhtikh anadiarqrwsh. Ara, einai safes oti mporei na bazoyme se dhmosia diaboyleysh olo ayto to sxedio mas, alla eimaste apofasismenoi na proxwrhsoyme, prokeimenoy na allajei ena montelo anaptyjhs kai to kratos kai h aytodioikhsh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na rwthsw kati. Afoy rixnete to baros sth dioikhtikh metarryqmish k. Ekproswpe, parempiptontws qa paei pisw o eklogikos nomos kai poso qa paei pisw; Poso qa ton kaqysterhsete akoma;

PETALWTHS: O eklogikos nomos hdh etoimazetai kai qa erqei se diaboyleysh se epomeno xroniko diasthma. Den qa paei pisw. Eipame oti anoigoyme ola ta zhthmata kai ayto kanoyme.

MOSXOBAS: Kat` arxhn, epibebaiwnete ayto to qermo epeisodio poy grafetai oti egine sth syskech toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, metajy toy k. Ragkoysh kai toy k. Benizeloy;

PETALWTHS: Poio qermo epeisodio;

MOSXOBAS: Diabasate, fantazomai, efhmerides.

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws.

MOSXOBAS: Grafoyn oti o k. Benizelos qelhse na perilhfqoyn sto telos, sta Symperasmata, oi epimeroys parathrhseis twn ypoyrgwn, kati to opoio den dexqhke, opws grafqhke, o k. Ragkoyshs kai parenebh pyrosbestika o Prwqypoyrgos. Ayto einai to nohma toy reportaz.

PETALWTHS: Oloi oi ypoyrgoi topoqethqhkan. Eixan tis dikes toys apoceis. Eixan tis dikes toys enstaseis se epimeroys zhthmata. Zhthsan tis dikes toys ejhghseis. Apo ekei kai pera, ayto to opoio breqhke telika ws synqesh, giati ayth htan h oysia kai h pragmatikothta, einai akribws ayto poy eipa: Syzhthsame mono epi ths arxhs. Ola ta epomena kai ta ejeidikeymena, qa ginoyn se epomeno xrono. Kai ennoeitai oti oles oi parathrhseis, oi protaseis, oi apoceis, akomh kai oi enstaseis twn ypoyrgwn, qa lhfqoyn ypoch kai qa enswmatwqoyn sto teliko sxedio nomoy. Ayto einai safestato. Ayto dhlwse xqes, kleinontas th syzhthsh, o Prwqypoyrgos, giati synolika ayth einai kai h antilhch ths kybernhshs.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Epi twn ryqmisewn toy k. Ragkoysh. Basei twn anakoinwsewn toy, 4.000 dhmotikes epixeirhseis qa katarghqoyn, opws eipe o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn. Me aytoys toys ergazomenoys, ti prokeitai na ginei;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti opoy yparxoyn ergasiaka dikaiwmata, den qigontai. Kai en pash periptwsei, aytes oi dhmotikes epixeirhseis, poy leitoyrgoyn twra pleon kai me mia nea morfh anwnymwn etaireiwn, gnwrizoyme para poly kala poios einai o skopos toys. Gnwrizoyme poly kala poies einai oi grafeiokratikes toys agkylwseis kai ti ergo paragoyn, me para polla ejoda. Aytes, omws, oi armodiothtes, giati askoyn kapoies armodiothtes, qa perasoyn se mia nea pio oikonomikh morfh, me ejoikonomhsh. Kai bebaiws, to qema twn ergazomenwn qa teqei otan qa yparjei kai teliko sxedio nomoy, otan qa yparjei h nea morfh toys ws pros th leitoyrgia toys.

MOSXOBAS: Einai antisyntagmatikh h tropologia kata thn kybernhsh, poy kateqese to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn gia thn anadromikh forologhsh, opws leei o k. Benizelos;

PETALWTHS: O k. Benizelos den milhse pote gia antisyntagmatikothta. Milhse gia syntagmatikothta, me qetiko tropo. Kai malista, sth dhlwsh toy, katelhje oti ayth th syntagmatikothta kai thn asfaleia twn synallagwn, h kybernhsh qa thn prostateysei. Na sas enhmerwsw, epeidh ginetai kai polys logos ep` aytoy, oti hdh yphrxe entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy pros toys ypoyrgoys na aposafhnistei h tropologia ayth kata periexomeno. Ara, den yphrxe qema antisyntagmatikothtas. Kai me thn aposafhnish poy qa ginei ayrio sthn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs, den qa yparxei kanena tetoio zhthma. Kai bebaiws, qa prostateyqei, qa perifroyrhqei kai h asfaleia twn synallagwn.

MOSXOBAS: Kala, apo thn topoqethsh toy k. Benizeloy, epikaleitai kai sygkekrimeno arqro, to arqro 78, an den kanw laqos.

PETALWTHS: O ypoyrgos mila gia th syntagmatikothta poy ofeilei na diepetai. Den milhse gia antisyntagmatikothta.

MOSXOBAS: Eipe oti einai syntagmatikh, dhladh;

PETALWTHS: Kai eipe oti qa prostateyqei apo thn kybernhsh h syntagmatikothta ths ryqmishs ayths.

MOSXOBAS: Ara, eqese ena qema oti den htan apolytws symbath me th syntagmatikothta ayth h ryqmish kai zhthse na prostateyqei, opws lete.

PETALWTHS: Egw sas eipa oti yphrxe entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy pros aposafhnish ths tropologias ayths. Kai ayrio, sto plaisio ayto, dhladh me thn aposafhnish, den qa tiqetai zhthma syntagmatikothtas h antisyntagmatikothtas.

POLYMEROS: Enoxlhqhke to Majimoy ap` ayth thn parembash toy k. Benizeloy;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei enoxlhsh toy Majimoy. H kybernhsh dra syllogika. Sas eipa prohgoymenws oti yphrxe hdh kai entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy pros aposafhnish. Alla nomizw oti kai o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn k. Papakwnstantinoy hdh eixe milhsei, thn prohgoymenh hmera, gia ayth thn aposafhnish.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Milame gia mia desmeysh toy PASOK, proeklogikh, me thn epanafora toy sygkekrimenoy foroy, en pash periptwsei. Giati eprepe h kybernhsh na perimenei treis mhnes, na afhsei profanws ena shmantiko ariqmo kosmoy kai apo ta boreia proastia, opws lene oi plhrofories, na kanei aytes tis metabibaseis, xwris kamia epibarynsh sto metajy, 100 hmeres twra kai giati loipon den to eferne nwritera kai eprepe na to ferei nyxta, se asxeto nomosxedio kai me amfibolh th syntagmatikothta ayths (den akoygetai). Giati den yparxei mia kalyterh leitoyrgia;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na pw oti den hrqe nyxta. Den exei kamia sxesh, to eipa kai thn Paraskeyh, nomizw, edw ...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Arga to brady.

PETALWTHS: Den exei kamia sxesh me tis legomenes ``nyxterines tropologies''. Oi nyxterines tropologies toy parelqontos htan embolimes tropologies poy katatiqento nyxta sth syzhthsh twn nomosxediwn sthn Olomeleia. Dhladh, xwris kamia epejergasia, prokeimenoy oi boyleytes na chfizoyn, xwris na gnwrizoyn, polles fores, thn tropologia. Edw yphrxe emproqesmh kataqesh mias tropologias, prin th syzhthsh sthn Epitroph, poy shmainei oti h tropologia ayth qa paei se oses synedriaseis ths Epitrophs yparxoyn. Qa ginei h syzhthsh, qa ginei h epejergasia, oi parathrhseis, oi diorqwseis, oi aposafhniseis, qa enswmatwqoyn, etsi wste na paei sthn Olomeleia kai na syzhthqei me osh epejergasia exoyn kai oi ypoloipes ryqmiseis olwn twn taktikwn nomosxediwn. Ara, ta peri ``nyxterinhs tropologias'' den exoyn kamia ypostash kai kamia isxy. Apo ekei kai pera, oson afora to prwto poy eipate kai einai mia eylogh aporia sas: H kybernhsh ayth eixe kai exei na kanei ena para poly shmantiko ergo. Bazei tis proteraiothtes, blepei toys xronoys kai apo ekei kai pera, proxwrei oso pio syntoma mporei. Kai malista, otan exei na kanei me forologhsh, poy shmainei oti xreiazetai perissoterh skech, perissoterh doyleia, wste na mhn yparxoyn apospasmatikes ryqmiseis. Den yphrxe, bebaia, kanena jafniasma. Htan proeklogikh mas desmeysh. Einai ena metro dikaihs forologhshs twn sygkekrimenwn metabibasewn gonikwn paroxwn kai klhronomiwn. Kai ayto efarmozoyme.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na sas ferw ena allo paradeigma, epeidh lete gia ta forologika. Thn Tetarth, meqayrio, yparxei o kindynos na janarxisoyn oi pleisthriasmoi poy eixan pagwsei me palaioterh diatajh kai twra epixeireite eseis na dwsete me mia paratash. Giati kai pali prepei na fqasei thn teleytaia stigmh h kybernhsh gia na nomoqethsei;

PETALWTHS: Oi parataseis dinontai akribws otan yparxei h teleytaia stigmh. Alla, otan exoyme na kanoyme me mia synolikh ryqmish nomosxediwn toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias, poy prospaqei na ryqmisei ta xreh, thn agora, ta daneia twn epaggelmatiwn, tote apaiteitai monimh nomoqethsh. Otan, omws, exoyme na kanoyme me mia katastash, h opoia einai ektakth, tote parateinoyme th ryqmish mexri na yparxei kai h monimh ryqmish toy zhthmatos.

KOYTRAS: Ejetazei h kybernhsh thn epibolh eniaioy FPA 15%, opws kykloforhse se oles tis kyriakatikes efhmerides;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei kamia skech sthn kybernhsh gia epibolh eniaioy foroy prostiqemenhs ajias 15%. Den yparxei protash. Den yparxei eishghsh.

MOSXOBAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, einai gnwsth h lagneia ths kybernhshs gia th diaboyleysh. Kindyneyoyme - kai den xrhsimopoiw tyxaia to rhma- na kanoyme diaboyleysh akoma kai gia to ti xrwma grabata qa forate sto briefing h o Prwqypoyrgos. Se dyo koryfaies nomoqetikes prwtoboylies ths kybernhshs, poy prokalesan kai thn antidrash twn politwn, opws einai ta telh kykloforias h h tropologia poy syzhtoysame, den yphrje kamia diaboyleysh, den perase apo kanena KTE, ektos an den to exw ypoch moy, apo kanena Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Giati egine ayto;

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayto akribws emeis leme oti h dhmosia diaboyleysh kai h diaboyleysh genikws einai ena qemeliwdes zhthma ths Dhmokratias kai ayto efarmozoyme. Proxwrame mesa apo ena shmantiko ergo. Epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora: Opoy blepoyme oti yparxoyn arryqmies h ateleies, tis diorqwnoyme.

PITTARAS: Me aformh ayth th bombistikh energeia poy eixame to Sabbato to brady, qa hqela na sas rwthsw. Ligo prin tis ekloges, o nyn ypoyrgos Prostasias toy Polith k. Xrysoxoidhs elege oti h Aqhna exei metatrapei se Kampoyl. Twra, ti akribws einai;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, nomizw oti kaqe Ellhnas poliths blepei th megalh diafora se qemata dhmosias asfaleias, poy yparxei apo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias me thn kybernhsh toy PASOK. As qymhqoyme ton Dekembrh epi Neas Dhmokratias, poy kaigotan epi treis hmeres oloklhrh h Aqhna kai afhname kapoioys gnwstoys-agnwstoys na ektonwqoyn stis perioysies twn aplwn politwn. Emeis, mesa se treis molis mhnes, kataferame na empedwsoyme to aisqhma ths dhmosias asfaleias toy Ellhna polith. Apo ekei kai pera, to na ginontai kapoies tetoies memonwmenes energeies, oi opoies einai skotadistikes kai prodidoyn politiko mhdenismo, einai ena allo zhthma kai den einai qema astynomokratoymenhs perioxhs h mh. Thn empedwsh toy aisqhmatos dhmosias asfaleias, pisteyoyme akradanta oti to ypoyrgeio Prostasias toy Polith thn exei ws prwth proteraiothta kai akribws ayto exei petyxei. Apo ekei kai pera, bebaiws, epeidh milhsate kai gia Kampoyl, moy dinete kai thn eykairia na pw oti kaqe pragma to bazoyme kai stis swstes toy diastaseis. Ayto poy egine proxqes to brady ejw apo ton Agnwsto Stratiwth, exei sygkekrimenes diastaseis. Safws kai den einai Kampoyl, eixe periorismenh drash kai htan kati to opoio isws den mporoyse na apofeyxqei me ta metra asfaleias poy yparxoyn ekei. Alla, nomizw oti qa prepei na meinoyme se ayto poy dhlwse o ypoyrgos Prostasias toy Polith: Den mporoyme na exoyme mia astynomokratoymenh xwra, mia astynomokratoymenh Aqhna.

POLYMEROS: Skopeyete na zhthsete bohqeia apo Amerikanoys h Aggloys gia na antimetwpisete to problhma ths tromokratias; Exei ginei sto parelqon, gi` ayto to rwtaw.

PETALWTHS: To problhma ths tromokratias einai ena megalo zhthma. Eytyxws, h kybernhsh toy PASOK exei kataferei se prohgoymenes periodoys diakybernhshs, to 2002, na ejarqrwsei mia shmantikotath tromokratikh organwsh, th 17N. Apo ekei kai pera, dystyxws akoloyqhse mia dialysh twn astynomikwn dynamewn, kyriws se epipedo antimetwpishs ths tromokratias, me apotelesma to 2009, otan analabame, na broyme sxedon dialymenes tis yphresies. Mesa se treis mhnes, omws, anatajame, antistrecame ayto to klima. Kai oi dynameis, etsi opws einai sthn ellhnikh astynomia shmera, me to sxediasmo poy yparxei, einai eparkestates.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Xqes eixame dyo dhmoskophseis ston kyriakatiko Typo, opoy metajy twn apanthsewn, sth mia to 40,4% twn erwthqentwn, apanta oti h kybernhsh den qa ylopoihsei tis desmeyseis ths, kai sthn allh to 58,5% oti einai synephs pros sygkekrimenes kathgories xamhlomisqwn kai xamhlosyntajioyxwn. Pws sxoliazete aytes tis apanthseis;

PETALWTHS: Oi dhmoskophseis poy dhmosieythkan xqes, htan dhmoskophseis se polla epipeda, oi opoies deixnoyn prwta apo ola oti se poly megalo pososto, sto pososto twn Ellhnwn politwn poy chfise, paramenei h idia diafora. Kai ayto einai shmantiko. Apo kei kai pera to na milame treis mhnes meta tis ekloges basei dhmoskophsewn, nomizw oti einai akairo. Ayto poy kanei h kybernhsh, einai mesa apo poly dyskoles synqhkes, mesa apo thn agwnia, thn opoia safws kai symmerizomaste, toy aploy Ellhna polith na prowqhsoyme to shmantikotato ergo mas me baqies rizikes allages, etsi wste na dwsoyme jana thn aisiodojia. Giati h dhmoskophsh poy moy anaferate, ayto akribws deixnei: Oti exei xaqei h elpida kai h aisiodojia apo ton Ellhna polith. Gia ayto akribws leme, me kaqe eykairia, oti melhma ayths ths kybernhshs einai na janadwsei thn elpida ston aplo polith. Kai ayto ginetai mono me prajeis, tis opoies hdh dromologoyme.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me thn eykairia kiolas epeidh shmera, an den kanw laqos, exoyme 99 hmeres. Den jerw an einai prwimo na sas rwthsw, alla epeidh exoyme prohgoymenws syzhthsei gia tis 100 prwtes hmeres...

PETALWTHS: Qa yparjei synenteyjh Typoy toy Prwqypoyrgoy, nwris thn Tetarth sto Zappeio.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Prwimo einai to diasthma. Eisaste ikanopoihmenoi gia tis prwtes 100 hmeres gia to (den akoygetai) ergo h ta diafora pragmata, ta opoia exoyn symbei olo ayto ton kairo;

PETALWTHS: Epeidh yparxei mia perirreoysa atmosfaira oti oi 100 prwtes hmeres den htan aytes oi opoies qelame na einai, emeis safws kai eimaste ikanopoihmenoi - sto metro toy dynatoy, bebaiws - giati brhkame mia katastash, thn opoia den ypologizame oti qa broyme. Parola ayta, xwris alloqi proxwrame. Kai otan meqayrio sto Zappeio ginei o apologismos, nomizw oti blepontas ton katalogo aytwn poy kaname, aytwn poy dromologhsame, o apologismos kai sta matia toy aploy polith qa einai qetikos. Ayto pisteyoyme. Bebaiws, as mhn jexname oti oi 100 hmeres einai enas symbatikos kai symbolikos xronos. Emeis doyleyoyme se baqos, oxi tetraetias, se baqos xronoy politikoy, oikonomikoy, koinwnikoy, giati otan blepoyme se mikrh diarkeia ti kaname h ti qa mporoysame na kanoyme, tote xanoyme pragmatika thn oysia.

MIXAHL: Qelw na sas rwthsw gia ena poly praktiko zhthma: H kybernhsh den einai ayth h opoia apofasizei gia to ti afora ton polith se ayth thn xwra; Toylaxiston ayto problepoyn ta dhmokratika kaqestwta. Kai sas to lew, para to gegonos oti yparxoyn nomikes desmeyseis, xwris na eidopoihqeite, toylaxiston ayto maqainw apo ta reportaz, h koinoprajia poy exei th diaxeirish toy aytokinhtodromoy Aqhnwn  Qessalonikhs ebale nea diodia th stigmh poy exoyme to problhma twn Tempwn. Telika ti ginetai; Oti qeloyn qa kanoyn oi ergolaboi h h kybernhsh symfwnei me ayth thn praktikh toys;

PETALWTHS: Me ta diodia yparxei ena zhthma. Yparxoyn symbaseis, oi opoies exoyn ypografei apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, symbaseis oi opoies den htan dektes apo emas. To armodio Ypoyrgeio Ypodomwn sxediazei mia oloklhrwmenh politikh sto qema twn diodiwn, thn opoia qa anakoinwsei.

MIXAHL: Pote omws;

MOSXOBAS: H nea politikh qa perilambanei meiwseis diodiwn; Giati lete oti yparxoyn symbaseis, oi opoies yphrxan apo oti qymamai kai sth COSCO. Mia symbash, thn opoia legate oti qa epanaprosdiorisete. Giati den to lete rhta oti qa epanaprosdioristei;...

PETALWTHS: Giati thn epanaprosdiorisame thn COSCO. Blepete oti emeis gia thn COSCO, gia to limani diorqwsame osa afhse anoixta h prohgoymenh kybernhsh me ta nomoqethmata ths. Kai sto qema twn diodiwn... .

MOSXOBAS: Me xryses eqeloysies ejodoys.

PETALWTHS: To qema twn eqeloysiwn ejodwn nomizw exei lyqei. Bebaia pername apo to ena qema sto allo, alla den peirazei. Sto plaisio mias pio anoixths syzhthshs, yphrje kai mia anakoinwsh toy k. Anwmerith proedroy kai dieyqynonta symboyloy toy OLP, poy anaferei poses einai aytes oi eqeloysies ejodoi kai ti kostizoyn ston ellhniko lao. Kai nomizw oti den einai ayto poy eixe diafanei apo thn arxh. Ws pros ta diodia: Einai safws melhma mas na einai me to mikrotero oikonomiko kostos gia toys katoikoys, eidika twn perioxwn, alla kai gia toys dierxomenoys polites kai me thn ayjhsh ths poiothtas twn yphresiwn poy parexoyn oi dromoi mas, oi opoioi safws kai den einai kaloi. Anagnwrizoyme oti yparxei problhma. Yparxei anantistoixia xrhmatwn, diodiwn me toys dromoys toys opoioys apolambanoyme.

MOSXOBAS: Ara qa epanaprosdiorisete aytes tis symbaseis, dhladh qa allajoyn oi oroi twn symbasewn; Ayto mas lete;

PETALWTHS: Ena kratos diaqetei diaforoys tropoys, etsi wste na beltiwnei kata to metro toy dynatoy, mesa sta symbatika kai nomika plaisia, kapoies symbaseis tis opoies hdh exei ypogracei. Se ayth thn kateyqynsh qa einai kai oi apofaseis toy armodioy ypoyrgeioy.

MIXAHL: Moy epitrepete; Den qa sas eqeta to qema mono apo thn pleyra ths eidhsiografias. Alla skefteite ton polith poy feygei apo ton noto na paei sto borra h antistrofws, na yfistatai thn talaipwria twn Tempwn, plhrwnontas ayta ta diodia sthn koinoprajia, opoy bebaiws yparxoyn nomikes synqhkes kai na exei kai thn apeilh oti piqanon na mhn ta kataferei, ean kai efoson oi agrotes kleisoyn to basiko odiko diktyo. Antilambaneste...

PETALWTHS: Twra bazete polla zhthmata...

MIXAHL: Oxi den ta bazw. Gia enan poy kanei ayth th doyleia epaggelmatika, einai terastio problhma.

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, oxi mono gia ayton poy kanei epaggelmatika, alla kai gia ton polith o opoios xrhsimopoiei toys dromoys ths xwras toy. Safws kai einai problhma. Safws kai ta problhmata yparxoyn. Emeis den ta arnoymaste, oyte ta apokryptoyme, oyte ta wraiopoioyme. Exoyme mia katastash, thn opoia diaxeirizomaste me ton kalytero tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie ekproswpe, akoysa xqes ton Prwqypoyrgo na leei oti qa systaqei mia epitroph poy qa ejetasei to qema toy monteloy diakybernhshs kai tis leitoyrgies toy prwqypoyrgikoy grafeioy. Ti epitroph qa einai ayth;

PETALWTHS: To montelo ths diakybernhshs synolika.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ths neas diakybernhshs, ayta ta open govern, opws ta lete...

PETALWTHS: Oxi, h ``nea diakybernhsh'' den einai oros toy shmerinoy Prwqypoyrgoy...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, en pash periptwsei, peite mas eseis poioys oroys, giati olo epitropes akoyme. Ti epitroph qa einai ayth, ti qa kanei kai gia pio logo;

PETALWTHS: Xqes o Prwqypoyrgos htan arketa safhs. Qa einai mia epitroph, h opoia qa apoteleitai apo proswpikothtes - kai dieqnoys kyroys - etsi wste na yparxei paragwgh enos monteloy, to opoio qa einai to kalytero, to paragwgikotero, to dhmokratikotero kai to apodotikotero gia thn kybernhsh, gia to prwqypoyrgiko grafeio kai gia to kratos synolikotera.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na ypoqesw, epeidh milaei kai gia prwqypoyrgiko grafeio, oti diapistwnei o Prwqypoyrgos oti orismena pragmata isws den leitoyrgoyn kala; Profanws gia na kanei mia epitroph, etsi den einai;

PETALWTHS: To montelo, to opoio yparxei mexri twra, genikws, einai montelo to opoio einai parwxhmeno. Emeis jekiname apo edw kai pera. Prospaqoyme na broyme toys tropoys ths kalyterhs apodoshs, ths pio dhmokratikhs leitoyrgias se ola ta epipeda ths kybernhshs kai diakybernhshs.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na epimeinw gia to prwqypoyrgiko grafeio. Pisteyete, gia paradeigma...

PETALWTHS: Den einai qema proswpwn, milame gia montelo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, gia montelo. Eidame, as poyme, diafora montela aytes tis 100 hmeres. Eidame ton k. Pampoykh na proedreyei se syskeceis me alloys ypoyrgoys gia paradeigma. Ayto qa synexistei, gia paradeigma, to montelo mesa se aytes tis megales tomes poy etoimazeste na kanete gia thn leitoyrgia toy prwqypoyrgikoy grafeioy;

PETALWTHS: Gia ayto sas eipa prohgoymenws kai mallon sas prolaba. Den einai qema proswpwn, einai qema monteloy. Kai to ti montelo qeloyme na yparxei ws leitoyrgia toy prwqypoyrgikoy grafeioy, ths kybernhshs, toy kratoys genikotera, einai ena zhtoymeno etsi wste na exoyme thn kalyterh apodosh kai thn pio dhmokratikh leitoyrgia kai thn megalyterh paragwgikothta.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Pio sygkekrimena twra. O k. Pampoykhs qa einai sthn epitroph h den einai proswpikothta dieqnws anagnwrismenh;

PETALWTHS: O k. Pampoykhs einai ypoyrgos ths kybernhshs, ypoyrgos Epikrateias kai den problepetai se ayth thn epitroph na yparxoyn ypoyrgoi.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai mia teleytaia erwthsh: H k. Diamantopoyloy zhthse pro hmerwn na ginei mia syskech gia thn Aqhna, qemata asfaleias klp ypo ton k. Pampoykh, malista, thn zhthse. Qa ginei ayth h epitroph kai pote thn blepete na ginei, an einai na ginei;

PETALWTHS: H k. Diamantopoyloy, ws boyleyths ths A perifereias Aqhnas, kai kanontas mia shmantikh doyleia ta dyo teleytaia xronia ths qhteias ths ws boyleyths ths antipoliteyshs, eixe asxolhqei me to qema ths Aqhnas. Esteile mia epistolh, opoy eqete to zhthma ypo ena synolikotero prisma, se epipedo paideias, politismoy, prostasias toy polith, poly synolikotera. Ayth h epistolh den exei apanthqei akomh.

MOSXOBAS: Problhmatizei thn kybernhsh to gegonos oti koryfaia stelexh ths dexontai epiqeseis apo eswkommatika meterizia, apo ypoyrgoys, apo boyleytes kai apo MME; Kai anaferomai gia paradeigma ston k. Pampoykh.

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy problhmatizei thn kybernhsh kai einai qema ths kybernhshs, einai na antimetwpisei ta pragmatika problhmata, na antimetwpizei gegonota. Oi proklhseis einai para poly megales kai ayth einai h doyleia ths. Otan exoyme na kanoyme me gegonota, safws kai ta antimetwpizoyme, giati aytos einai o rolos ton opoio analabame.

MOSXOBAS: Epeidh thn Kyriakh eidame se megalhs kykloforias kyriakatikh efhmerida, sxetika reportaz gia ton k. Pampoykh me sygkekrimenes aitiaseis. Ep' aytwn exei kapoia apanthsh h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Ean yparxoyn kapoia sygkekrimena gegonota, qa mporoyme na apofanqoyme kai qa mporoyme na krinoyme. Sta sxolia, omws, twn efhmeridwn, safws kai den apantame. Emeis apantame me thn politikh mas. Emeis paragoyme politikh kai ayth einai h apanthsh mas. Otan exoyme gegonota, ta syzhtame. Kai mporoyme na ta syzhtame kai edw kai pantoy.

Sas eyxaristw.

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