Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-11-04

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 4 Noembrioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 233370245

Ekdosh 1

brf0411

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 4 Noembrioy 2009

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Entos ths hmeras, qa anakoinwqoyn onomata Genikwn kai Eidikwn Grammatewn twn Ypoyrgeiwn. Qa yparjei syntoma anakoinwsh.

Parakalw gia tis erwthseis sas.

ANTYPAS: Giati den ta anakoinwnete;

PETALWTHS: Qa yparjei eggrafh anakoinwsh, opoy qa dhmosieyontai ta onomata.

PETOYRH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw pws skefteste na xeiristeite to qema ths apergias sto limani poy apo oti fainetai h 48wrh qa epanalhfqei. Ayth einai h prwth erwthsh. Kai h deyterh: Poso efikto briskete to stoxo toy elleimmatos sto 9,5%;

PETALWTHS: To qema toy limanioy, einai ena qema poy talanizei thn koinwnia tis teleytaies hmeres. Na ypenqymisw oti apo thn 1h Oktwbrioy jekinhse h apergia twn ergazomenwn sto limani kai emeis ws kybernhsh klhqhkame na to antimetwpisoyme bazontas krithria kai gnwmones. H kybernhsh qewrei oti h monh efikth lysh gia to qema pernaei mesa apo to dialogo, ton opoio jekinhse kai prospaqei me toys tropoys -etsi opws anakoinwnontai kaqe mera- na to synexisei. Sto shmeio ayto, qa sas pw oti entos ths hmeras qa anakoinwqei o orismos enos meloys toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy toy Organismoy Limenos Peiraiws, to opoio me thn idiothta toy ws anaplhrwth Dieyqynontos Symboyloy, qa exei thn entolh na jekinhsei, amesa, to dialogo metajy OLP kai SEP gia ta zhthmata ths paraxwrhshs. Einai mia lysh h opoia qa proxwrhsei thn olh diadikasia. Na ypenqymisw oti h kybernhsh poreyetai sto zhthma ayto, me bash to dhmosio symferon poy shmainei anoixta limania, etsi wste na diasfalistei h dynamikh ths agoras. Kai bebaia, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, me kyrio ergaleio to dialogo anamesa sta emplekomena merh. Kai sto dialogo ayto qa ejetastoyn ta ergasiaka zhthmata poy exoyn na kanoyn kai me tis apaithseis kai me ta aithmata twn ergazomenwn -zhthmata forologika kai zhthmata ryqmistikoy plaisioy. Se ayto to plaisio kineitai h kybernhsh ws pros to limani, me qema bebaia to amoibaio ofelos olwn twn merwn. Elpizoyme oti oles oi pleyres qa katanohsoyn plhrws to rolo toys, prokeimenoy na proaspistei to dhmosio symferon.

PETOYRH: Gia to elleimma;

PETALWTHS: Oson afora sto elleimma, parolo poy gnwrizoyme tis megales adynamies -kai h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph frontizei na mas tis ypenqymizei kai me apanwtes ekqeseis- stoxos mas einai mesa sto 2010 na to odhghsoyme se monochfio ariqmo, mesa apo mia sygkekrimenh politikh se oikonomika zhthmata.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Mia dieykrinish hqela kai mia erwthsh. Lete entos ths hmeras qa anakoinwqoyn ta onomata twn Genikwn Grammatewn, twn Perifereiarxwn fantazomai. Qa einai ola ta onomata h qa einai gia orismena Ypoyrgeia;

PETALWTHS: Qa aforoyn ta Ypoyrgeia, sta opoia exei hdh oloklhrwqei h diadikasia.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Qa meinoyn kai kena dhladh ta opoia qa einai...

PETALWTHS: H diadikasia einai se ejelijh kai synexizetai.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Problhmatizei thn kybernhsh h kritikh poy dexqhke xqes o Ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn sto KTE Oikonomias kai gia thn aposyrsh, alla kai genikotera gia thn oikonomikh politikh poy akoloyqei;

PETALWTHS: To dieyrymeno KTE Oikonomias, gnwrizoyme oti einai mia kommatikh diadikasia, sto plaisio ths koinoboyleytikhs diadikasias. Synepws, ginontai eyreies syzhthseis kai o kaqenas leei tis apoceis toy, oi opoies, bebaiws, lambanontai ypoch.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Den exei idiaiterh shmasia gia thn kybernhsh oti o Ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn dexqhke kritikh apo ton Proedro ths Boylhs gia ena qema; Skefteste na labete ypoch sas ayta poy eipe o k. Petsalnikos;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti eginan syzhthseis  opws ginetai panta stoys Koinoboyleytikoys Tomeis Ergasias giati etsi orizei h Dhmokratia, panw se sygkekrimena zhthmata. Ekfrazontai oi apoceis kai sto telos prokyptei kapoio apotelesma.

MAKRYGIANNHS: En pash periptwsei, ep' aytoy k. Ekproswpe: Skeftetai h kybernhsh kai to oikonomiko epiteleio, meta thn kritikh kai th syzhthsh poy egine xqes, na epanejetasei to qema ths aposyrshs kai twn ychlwn telwn kykloforias; Ayto to paketo;

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti ayto to qema hdh exei teleiwsei kai synexizoyme me ayto ton tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite, o Ypoyrgos k. Papakwnstantinoy eipe xqes oti qa to dei to qema.

PETALWTHS: Egw sas apantaw se ayto poy me rwtate.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Den einai ayto ypanaxwrhsh apo proeklogikh sas desmeysh, poy legate oti qa beltiwsete kai den qa katarghsete kai den qa parete pisw to metro ths aposyrshs;

PETALWTHS: H apofash poy elhfqh apo koinoy, apo ton Ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn kai thn Ypoyrgo Periballontos gia to qema ths aposyrshs, exei aitiologhqei plhrws sthn anakoinwsh, h opoia ejedoqh xqes. Mpainoyn kai ta zhthmata ths oikonomias kai ta zhthmata ths prostasias toy periballontos.

ANTYPAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, dyo erwthseis, h prwth sto qema sto opoio eimaste. Mporeite na moy ejhghsete th logikh me thn opoia h kybernhsh meiwnei ta telh kykloforias sta ychloy kybismoy aytokinhta, anw twn 2.356 kybikwn poy qa exoyn elafrynsh, ta kainoyrgia, 18 eyrw, kai ayjanei ta telh kykloforias se antistoixhs epoxhs mikra aytokinhta; Einai to antiqeto apo o,ti eixate pei proeklogika, an den kanw laqos.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh beltiwse to nomo Soyflia etsi opws eqese tis arxes ths kai etsi opws egine h xqesinh anakoinwsh.

ANTYPAS: Exw kai deyterh erwthsh: Apo o,ti maqainoyme, o k. Pagkalos ayth th stigmh proedreyei mias diypoyrgikhs synedriashs gia to qema twn farmakwn. Exei lhjei to qema toy Proedrikoy Diatagmatos kai twn armodiothtwn toy Antiproedroy ths kybernhshs; Giati yparxoyn plhrofories oti yparxoyn antidraseis apo to Symboylio ths Epikrateias, se o,ti afora th nomimothta toy diorismoy ws antiproedros ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Den nomizw oti yparxoyn tetoies antidraseis. To Symboylio ths Epikrateias exei hdh steilei to praktiko ths epejergasias gia tis armodiothtes kai prowqeitai gia na dhmosieytei to Proedriko Diatagma, poy afora stis armodiothtes twn Ypoyrgeiwn.

MIXAHL: Hqela na rwthsw, kata th diarkeia thn xqesinhs synedriashs toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, opoy egkrinate to nomosxedio ayto poy paroysiase o k. Papakwnstantinoy, diatypwqhke kai h apoch apo ton k. Benizelo na mhn doqei Epidoma Koinwnikhs Allhleggyhs, alla na yparjei problech gia elaxisto eggyhmeno eisodhma. Aperrifqh ayth h protash. Mporeite na mas ejhghsete me poio skeptiko aperrifqh ayth h protash;

PETALWTHS: Den yphrxe sygkekrimenh protash etsi opws thn anaferete. Sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio egine mia syzhthsh -kai malista diejodikh, analytikh- me dedomeno oti htan h syzhthsh gia to prwto nomoqethma ths neas kybernhshs toy PASOK me poly oysiastiko kai taytoxrona symboliko periexomeno. Syzhthqhkan epimeroys zhthmata toy sxedioy nomoy. Prospaqhsame na broyme beltiwtikes lyseis. Tetoia protash, omws, den yphrje gia na aporrifqei.

MIXAHL: Dhladh diaceydete eseis shmerina dhmosieymata, oti o k. Benizelos sthn dikh toy topoqethsh sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio den anaferqhke se ayto to qema;

PETALWTHS: Egw den diaceydw kati. Sas lew ti egine xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ep aytoy : H kybernhsh ejetazei ayth thn protash toy k. Benizeloy na mpoyn se mia eidikh kathgoria kai osoi exoyn mplokakia, oi aytoapasxoloymenoi, oi symbasioyxoi ergoy, aytoi poy exoyn xamhla eisodhmata; Giati to xqesino reportaz, toylaxiston, elege oti o k. Papakwnstantinoy qa ejetasei sth dhmosia diaboyleysh beltiwsh toy nomosxedioy. Ayth thn protash th syzhtaei kaqoloy h kybernhsh h ekleise xqes ayto to qema;

PETALWTHS: Opws eipa, h kybernhsh xqes paroysiase ena poly shmantiko, gia mas, nomoqethma. Ayto to nomoqethma hdh exei anarthqei se istoselida. Hdh ginetai h dhmosia diaboyleysh, poy shmainei oti o kaqenas einai se qesh na ypobalei protaseis, oi opoies omws na einai pros thn kateyqynsh, thn opoia orizei to nomoqethma kai bebaiws den qa exoyn kai dhmosionomikes epiptwseis. Emeis exoyme epejergastei ayto to nomoqethma para poly kala. Gnwrizoyme oti yparxoyn ateleies poy ofeilontai sto oti to forologiko mas systhma einai toso saqro, poy, pragmatika, ta krithria poy qetei den apotypwnoyn thn pragmatikh eisodhmatikh katastash twn politwn ths xwras mas. Alla me ergaleio ayta ta krithria, poy anagkastika eprepe na laboyme ypoch, prospaqhsame ena poly megalo meros twn sympolitwn mas -perissoteroi apo 2,5 ek. polites- na tyxoyn aytoy toy eyergetikoy wfelhmatos.

PITTARAS: Oi ergazomenoi sta stage den qa mporoysan na exoyn ayto to wfelhma poy lete kai eseis; Qa to qewroysate dhmosionomiko ektroxiasmo ean symperilambanate kai aytoys;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa pws kinhqhke h kybernhsh kai me poioys gnwmones.

PETOYRH: Ara, afhnete anoixto to endexomeno, apo o,ti katalabainw apo thn apanthsh sas, na ejetastei h protash Benizeloy, giati einai se ayth thn kateyqynsh, na symperilabei dhladh kathgories poy den symperilambanei ayth th stigmh to nomosxedio.

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw oti xqes sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio egine mia poly gonimh diadikasia, enas poly gonimos dialogos. Akoysthkan polles protaseis apo oloys sxedon toys ypoyrgoys. H diaboyleysh einai anoixth. Kai oloklhrwnontas th diadikasia ths diaboyleyshs, o armodios ypoyrgos qa kataqesei to sxedio nomoy, to opoio qa einai apotelesma ths diaboyleyshs.

SIDERHS: Exw dyo erwthseis. Thn prwth, th syzhthsame, alla qa hqela na sas rwthsw, aytos o oikologikos fetixismos ths kybernhshs na bazei telh sta palia aytokinhta kai sta sarabalakia aytwn poy den exoyn xrhmata na ta antikatasthsoyn, giati an eixan qa ta antikatastoysan, den einai koinwnikh adikia;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den dexomai thn apoch sas gia oikologiko fetixismo. Exoyme ypoxrewsh na prostateysoyme to periballon. Einai ena apo ta krithria ta opoia lambanoyme ypoch gia oles tis energeies. To periballon xreiazetai prostasia. Hdh, se dieqnes epipedo syzhteitai to qema twn klimatikwn allagwn. Kai emeis, epiteloys, edw sthn Ellada prepei na eisagoyme ayto to gnwmona etsi wste na kinoymaste kai politika. Oi arxes me tis opoies kinhqhke to nomoqethma sto opoio anafereste, einai jekaqares. Ta aytokinhta ychloy kybismoy, ta opoia einai kai rypogona, epibarynoyn to periballon.

SIDERHS: Kai gia ta palia. Anarwtiemai, an exei osmwsh h kybernhsh, oi armodioi ypoyrgoi, gia thn koinwnikh pragmatikothta. Einai dedomeno oti me th latreia poy exei o neoellhnas, an eixan lefta, qa ta allazan. Epimenw, giati epimenei poly o kosmos poy mas thlefwnei.

PETALWTHS: Kai egw epimenw sthn apoch ayth poy sas eipa. Oson afora ayto poy eipate, peri osmwshs ths koinwnias: Emeis eimaste akribws aytoi poy bazoyme tetoioys qesmoys wste h koinwnia na syndiamorfwnei th nomoqetikh diadikasia.

SIDERHS: Exw kai mia deyterh erwthsh. O k. Ragkoyshs, shmera, sto Forum gia toys metanastes, eipe metajy allwn: ``Oxhma ths asfaloys entajiakhs poreias den mporei na einai, para na einai to diarkes (den akoygetai) ths symmetoxhs twn metanastwn me thn chfo toys, kat` arxhn se epipedo Topikhs Aytodioikhshs''. Pote me to kalo qa chfisoyn kai stis eqnikes ekloges gia na kaqorizoyn thn politikh hgesia twn Ellhnwn;

PETALWTHS: O Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Ragkoyshs eqese ena zhthma, to opoio qa prepei na to doyme kai ws Politeia kai ws koinwnia. Einai ena zhthma poy xrhzei megalhs syzhthshs. Otan qa yparxei h nomoqetikh prwtoboylia, qa anakoinwqei me oles tis synepeies.

PERDIKARHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, na epanelqw ligo sto qema toy limanioy. Lete oti h monh efikth lysh gia thn kybernhsh, einai o dialogos. Den jekinhsate, omws, to dialogo to Sabbatokyriako twn programmatikwn dhlwsewn, otan oi ergazomenoi anesteilan tis kinhtopoihseis toys. Mhpws xaqhke polytimos xronos tote kai an to problhma htan o orismos aytoy toy meloys toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy toy OLP, opws mas eipate oti qa ginei gia na jekinhsei o dialogos, mhpws kaqysterhsate kai ekei se ayto;

PETALWTHS: To zhthma toy limanioy einai synqeto kai apaitei kai poly isorrophmenes kai leptes proseggiseis. H kybernhsh, apo thn prwth stigmh poy anelabe, klhronomwntas olh ayth thn istoria toy limanioy, prospaqhse -kai prospaqei kaqhmerina me sygkekrimenes kinhseis- na epilyqei ayto to megalo zhthma gia th xwra mas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ep` aytoy, k. Ekproswpe. Sthn arxh, legate gia to qema ths idiokthsias kai ths anaqewrhshs ths symbashs. Twra, h k. Katselh leei gia ryqmistiko rolo toy kratoys. Den synista ayto anadiplwsh kai ypanaxwrhsh apo proeklogikes desmeyseis kai yposxeseis h mhnymata poy stelnate stoys apergoys;

PETALWTHS: Oxi. Pisteyw oti eimaste synepestatoi kai me tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis. As mh jexname oti exoyme mia sygkekrimenh pragmatikh katastash. Exoyme mia symbash poy ypegrace h xwra mas kai kyrwqhke armodiws. Ara, me aytes tis ypoxrewseis prospaqoyme na kinhqoyme kai na diorqwsoyme, o,ti mporoyme na diorqwsoyme, sth shmerinh katastash. Ayto einai to melhma mas kai pros ta ekei proxwrame.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, alla mesolabhse, apo thn wra poy anesteilan, gia prwth fora, oi ergazomenoi thn apergia toys, mexri twra poy thn janarxisan, ena diasthma. Giati den yphrje kamia proodos kai giati na yparjei sth synexeia.

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa oti h kybernhsh den stamathse, oyte mia hmera, na ergazetai gia to qema toy limanioy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Den to exoyn katalabei ayto oi ergazomenoi, pantws, k. Ekproswpe. Den jerw ean to gnwrizei h kybernhsh.

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti to katanooyme oi pantes.

ANTYPAS: Mia dieykrinish sthn prohgoymenh erwthsh moy. Ti leei to StE gia to diorismo toy k. Pagkaloy ws Antiproedroy ths kybernhshs;

PETALWTHS: To Proedriko Diatagma, qa to deite. Qa dhmosieyqei...

ANTYPAS: Oxi. Lew, ti leei to StE poy sas esteile tis parathrhseis toy. Mporeite na mas enhmerwsete;

PETALWTHS: Sas lew oti oi parathrhseis toy StE -oi opoies ayth th stigmh perierxontai ws praktiko sta xeria ths kybernhshs- qa lhfqoyn ypoch se ola ta qemata ths armodiothtas, etsi wste, symfwna me th nomimothta, na yparxei kai dhmosieysh.

ANTYPAS: Yparxoyn pragmati enstaseis apo to StE;

PETALWTHS: Oxi enstaseis. To StE kanei mia nomikh epejergasia. Katanooyme oti ta qemata ta opoia problepei to Proedriko Diatagma einai poly lepta. Exoyme milhsei, polles fores, gia thn terastia anadiarqrwsh toy kratoys. Ara, ta zhthmata htan polla kai synqeta kai me bash aytes tis parathrhseis, oi opoies qa lhfqoyn ypoch, qa ekdoqei to Proedriko Diatagma.

ANTYPAS: Yparxei qema me th nomimothta kapoiwn prajewn poy exoyn ypografei apo thn orkwmosia ths kybernhshs mexri shmera;

PETALWTHS: Oxi, bebaiws.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ejetazetai h forologhsh aytoy toy Ektaktoy Epidomatos Allhleggyhs poy qa dwsete; Kai na mas peite kai to pososto ths forologhshs.

PETALWTHS: O,ti ejetazetai, anakoinwnetai. Den yparxei tetoio zhthma.

MIXAHL: O poliths poy qa parei ayto to epidoma, otan qa klhqei toy xronoy na kanei th forologikh toy dhlwsh, qa prepei na to dhlwsei. Se syndyasmo me ta mikra eisodhmata poy exei, endexetai na ypopiptei stis nees forologikes klimakes stis opoies eseis qa qespisete me to forologiko nomosxedio, opws exete desmeyqei. To erwthma brisketai sto ean yparjei ayth h periptwsh, poy einai poly yparkto endexomeno, den qa einai forologhsh ek twn ysterwn toy epidomatos poy exete dwsei; Ektos kai an anakoinwsete oti ayto einai aforologhto.

PETALWTHS: As mhn protrexoyme. Emeis qeloyme ayth h ektakth enisxysh na fqasei ston oikogeneiarxh, na fqasei sthn ellhnikh oikogeneia, na fqasei stis eypaqeis kai stis eyalwtes koinwnikes omades, etsi wste na yparxei ena sygkekrimeno wfelhma, prokeimenoy, epiteloys, na parei mia anasa sth dyskolh oikonomikh zwh kai sth dyskolh kaqhmerinothta poy perna.

KOYTRAS: Sygnwmh, ep` aytoy, qa forologhqei k. Ekproswpe ayto; Nai h oxi;

PETALWTHS: Ean yphrxe kati, qa anakoinwnotan h an yparjei kati, qa anakoinwqei. As meinoyme se ayto to nomoqethma, etsi opws yparxei shmera. Yparxei sxedio Proypologismoy, to opoio qa katateqei. Yparxei neos forologikos nomos. Einai praktika adynato na milhsoyme gia tetoia zhthmata, shmera.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Meta tis xqesines anakoinwseis, menoyn ejw xiliades xamhlomisqoi ergazomenoi, oi opoioi den exoyn oikogeneia kai paidi, poy proeklogika eixate yposxeqei oti qa paroyn to Epidoma Koinwnikhs Allhleggyhs. Ti ginetai me aytoys toys anqrwpoys;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, opws eipa prohgoymenws, epejergasthkame ena sxedio etsi wste na kataferei enas poly megalos ariqmos sympolitwn mas, oi opoioi ypoferoyn sthn kaqhmerinothta toys, na tyxoyn ayths ths wfeleias. Kai pisteyoyme akradanta oti aytos o stoxos epitygxanetai me ayto to nomoqethma. Sas eipa kai prohgoymenws oti qa mporoysan na mpoyn polles omades akomh. Apo ekei kai pera, exoyme ena sygkekrimeno poso me to opoio prepei na enisxysoyme aytes tis koinwnikes omades. Kai, kata thn apoch mas, kaname thn kalyterh epilogh.

SEGKOS: Ara, twra to apokleiete ayto to qema; Giati prin afhsate anoixto to endexomeno na breqei mia lysh gia toys ergazomenoys me mplokakia. Apo o,ti katalabainw, to apokleiete twra ayto to endexomeno.

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa prohgoymenws oti to nomoqethma katatiqetai etsi opws katateqhke. Ara, h boylhsh ths kybernhshs apotypwqhke me ayto ton tropo. H dhmosia diaboyleysh mporei na odhghsei se dieyrynsh opoiasdhpote ryqmishs problepei to nomoqethma, me to safh periorismo poy sas anefera. Kai o dhmosionomikos periorismos exei amesh sxesh me ayta poy lew, giati ena apo ta basika stoixeia aytoy toy nomoqethmatos einai oti einai dhmosionomika oydetero. Den mporoyme na epibarynoyme ton ellhniko lao, dinontas xrhmata se kapoies omades, ta opoia brhkan me ayto ton tropo, etsi opws perigrafetai sto nomoqethma.

QEODWROPOYLOS: H ektakth eisfora twn megalwn epixeirhsewn einai to antallagma gia th dhmioyrgia xiliadwn anasfalistwn stage ston idiwtiko tomea kai ths qespishs programmatwn maqhteias kai dia bioy ekpaideysh, poy exei anakoinwsei h kybernhsh prosferontas fqhno ergatiko dynamiko stis epixeirhseis;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh toy PASOK den kanei kanena tetoio antallagma kai den pazareyei me thn eyhmeria toy aploy Ellhna polith.

XRISTOFILOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na sas rwthsw gia ta Nayphgeia Skaramagka. Pws qa antidrasei h kybernhsh an oi Germanoi proxwrhsoyn sthn paraxwrhsh twn Nayphgeiwn sto sxhma prwhn stelexwn toys, to opoio symfwna me dhmosieymata den parexei ta exeggya leitoyrgias toy Nayphgeioy kai poy symfwna me ta idia dhmosieymata kai h kybernhsh blepei thn ejelijh ayth arnhtika.

PETALWTHS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh, hdh, exei antidrasei. Panta me gnwmona to dhmosio symferon qa poreyqei kai h diadikasia twn Nayphgeiwn Skaramagka.

PETOYRH: Epi ths forologhshs toy Epidomatos Allhleggyhs, epeidh dwsate dyo apanthseis, na meinoyme sthn apanthsh sas oti den yparxei qema forologhshs;

PETALWTHS: Ean yparxei qema forologhshs qa anakoinwqei h qa anakoinwnotan. Egw menw sto nomoqethma to opoio yparxei. Yparxei to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, to opoio orizei ta oikonomika ths xwras mas. As mhn protrexoyme kai as mh noqeyoyme ayto to shmantiko, gia th xwra mas, nomoqethma, th sygkekrimenh xronikh stigmh.

SIDERHS: Eftasan sthn kybernhsh apo to Symboylio ths Epikrateias oi apanthseis; Exoyn ftasei; Qa ftasoyn;

PETALWTHS: To praktiko apo to Symboylio ths Epikrateias, hdh eftase, prin apo ligo, sthn kybernhsh.

SIDERHS: Shmera;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, shmera.

SEGKOS: Se ena eidiko qema, poy omws aptetai twn dikwn sas armodiothtwn. Skepteste na dwsete, na anazhthsete mia lysh sto problhma twn symbasioyxwn ths ERT h telika aytoi oi anqrwpoi qa petaxtoyn sto dromo;

PETALWTHS: Oi armodiothtes, opws gnwrizete, qa oristoyn me to Proedriko Diatagma, to opoio akomh den exei ekdoqei.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh oi parathrhseis toy Almoynia einai poly dysarestes gia thn kybernhsh kai o stoxos toy monochfioy posostoy gia to elleimma moiazei arketa dyskolos, ti foroys qa balei h kybernhsh gia na mporesei na mazecei ta xrhmata ayta poy xreiazontai; Qa forologhsei ta mesaia eisodhmata, gia paradeigma;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw ayto poy eixa pei kai prohgoymenws, oti poreyomaste me bash tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis. Qeloyme na dhmioyrghsoyme ena staqero dhmosionomiko kai forologiko topio. Kai bebaiws, hdh, kai apo to prwto nomoqethma poy katateqhke xqes, h kybernhsh deixnei toys stoxoys ths poy einai anadianomh twn barwn. Se ayto to plaisio, qa kinhqei kai o neos forologikos nomos, otan yparjei.

SABBOPOYLOY: Akoysa xqes, thn k. Mpirmpilh na leei oti ta xrhmata gia thn aposyrsh protimate na ta dwsete sthn Paideia. Wstoso, ayto to metro to phrate pisw giati den yphrxan xrhmata. Poia xrhmata qa dwsete tote sthn Paideia;

PETALWTHS: Egine enas proypologismos xqes, o opoios anakoinwqhke, ta xrhmata ta opoia qa dinontan sthn aposyrsh einai ena poso poy sth shmerinh dhmosionomikh kai oikonomikh katastash exei poly megalh shmasia gia th xwra mas. Kai emeis qetoyme tis proteraiothtes mas. Kai qetoyme ws proteraiothta thn Paideia, h opoia prepei na enisxyqei. Oytws h allws, yparxei kai desmeysh ths kybernhshs na enisxysei thn Paideia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite, ypologisate ta xrhmata ayta, kyrie Ekproswpe; Dioti yparxei kai to ejhs: Oti kapoios poy aposyrei to aytokinhto toy kai agorazei ena allo, prokalei, dhmioyrgei esoda sto kratos. Ara, ayth th diafora thn ypologisate gia na peite posa lefta qa dwsete sthn Paideia;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. H ryqmish egine me bash toys ypologismoys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Posa lefta qa parei h Paideia, loipon, apo ayto to metro;

PETALWTHS: H Paideia qa labei mia synolikh enisxysh thn opoia dikaioytai -kai ypoxreoytai h Politeia- na thn parei. O,ti xrhmata ejoikonomhqoyn apo thn aposyrsh aytoy toy metroy qa doqoyn sthn Paideia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Den exete omws poso; Na sas rwthsw omws kati allo, kyrie Ekproswpe: Pisteyete oti opoios krataei to aytokinhto toy, qa hqela etsi thn apoch ths kybernhshs, kamia 25aria xronia, to kanei apo agaph stis antikes;

PETALWTHS: Malista. Allh erwthsh;

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na sas rwthsw. Exete metrhsei posa ofelh exei to periballon otan kykloforei ena aytokinhto peripoy 20 - 25 - 30  35 etwn;

PETALWTHS: Egw sas eipa me poia krithria egine ayth h prajh nomoqetikoy periexomenoy kai nomizw oti hmoyn safhs.

MIXAHL: Dyo dieykrinhseis. H prwth dieykrinish einai h ejhs: Mas eipate oti qa oristei apo thn kybernhsh kapoio melos toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy toy OLP gia na kanei tis syzhthseis. Me poion; Me ton epikefalhs ths COSCO, ths mhtrikhs, poy brisketai sthn Ellada, opws diabazoyme h den yparxei tetoio proswpo; Jerete kati na mas peite;

PETALWTHS: Edw yparxei h SEP Anwnymh Etaireia, h qygatrikh ths COSCO, poy einai h paraxwrhsioyxos etaireia. O dialogos qa ginei me ton OLP, me th SEP kai bebaia kai me toys ergazomenoys.

MIXAHL: To deytero poy qelw na sas rwthsw einai to ejhs: Mas eipate oti qa anakoinwqoyn se ligo oi Genikoi Grammateis, osoi einai, telos pantwn. Qa yparjei kapoia allh typikh diadikasia gia thn topoqethsh toys; Dhladh, synanthsh me ton Prwqypoyrgo, endexomenws kapoia omilia, kapoia gnwrimia h qa pane kateyqeian sta Ypoyrgeia na analaboyn; Ti qa ginei;

PETALWTHS: Me thn anakoinwsh antilambaneste oti analambanoyn kai tis qeseis toys.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Sthn omilia toy to prwi sto Forum gia th metanasteysh kai thn anaptyjh, o Prwqypoyrgos den anaferqhke kaqoloy stoys metanastes xwris xartia. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw poia qa einai h antimetwpish toys apo thn kybernhsh kai an isxyei h proeklogikh anafora gia mhdenikh anoxh.

PETALWTHS: Antilambaneste oti to qema ths metanasteyshs einai ena poly shmantiko zhthma poy aptetai ths prostasias twn atomikwn dikaiwmatwn, poy aptetai ths prostasias toy dhmosioy symferontos genikotera, me o,ti ayto synepagetai. Kai h metanasteytikh politikh, h opoia qa kaqoristei kai qa prosdioristei apo thn kybernhsh, exei ws stoxoys thn proaspish twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn ekei opoy xreiazetai pragmatika. Kai bebaia, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, kai thn proaspish toy dhmosioy symferontos.

QEODWROPOYLOS: To ``mhdenikh anoxh'' isxyei;

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa prohgoymenws.

Sas eyxaristw.

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