Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-02-24

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 24 Febroyarioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 187922523

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(240209)

O KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 24 Febroyarioy 2009

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Kalhmera.

Ayrio, Tetarth 25 Febroyarioy, stis 12.00, qa synedriasei to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, ypo thn proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Kwsta Karamanlh me plhrh synqesh, dhladh kai me th symmetoxh twn Yfypoyrgwn, me qema thn oikonomikh politikh ths kybernhshs.

Logw ths synedriashs toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy h ayrianh enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn kai twn antapokritwn jenoy Typoy, den qa pragmatopoihqei.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, ep` aytoy, poioi logoi epibaloyn th synedriash toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy; Yparxei kati;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa: Qema einai h oikonomikh politikh.

FANIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, parakoloyqhsa xqes tis dhlwseis sas, entajei den hmastan edw, enhmerwqhkame, htan kai ligo arga blepete. Ap` oti antilhfqhka h politikh eyqynh ths kybernhshs den yfistatai h periorizetai stis paraithseis poy zhthse o k. Dendias. Hqela, loipon, na rwthsw to ejhs: Epeidh ejaggeilate kapoia metra, ta opoia kai sto parelqon epishs eixan ejaggelqei -an oxi idia, paromoia- kai den efarmosthkan, den yparxoyn politikes eyqynes gia toys prohgoymenoys Ypoyrgoys Dikaiosynhs;

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei. Lypamai poy den hsastan edw xqes. Anaferqhka se ola ayta ta qemata ejantlhtika, me polles leptomereies. Eyxaristws, na sas epanalabw o,ti eipa xqes.

FANIDHS: Oxi den einai qema...

ANTWNAROS: Perilabate sthn erwthsh sas stoixeia poy bebaiws, den antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta. Ekeino to opoio eipa xqes htan: Sthn prohgoymenh antistoixh periptwsh, ejaggelqhkan metra, ta opoia kai efarmosthkan. Egw den eipa pote kati tetoio, opws ayto, to opoio isxyristhkate. Aplws, h epityxia, h ekbash toy egxeirhmatos h opoia egine dynath logw toy oti einai diabrwmena megala tmhmata toy systhmatos, apedeije sthn prajh oti prepei na lhfqoyn kai alla metra. Kai ayto kanoyme.

XRHSTAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes, anakoinwse h kybernhsh 10 metra poy aforoyn th sygkekrimenh ypoqesh, na mhn ta epanalabw, blepoyme omws shmera kai qelw na staqw se ena apo ayta, poy einai idiaiterws shmantiko kai afora to aporrhto twn epikoinwniwn gia ta kartokinhta thlefwna. Thn arsh, dhladh, ths anwnymias, na to pw etsi poly apla, poy mporei na exei o kaqenas agorazontas mia thlefwnikh grammh, ena kartokinhto thlefwno apo to periptero. Exoyn antidrasei oi etaireies kinhths thlefwnias akoygontas apo to prwi, oso prolaba na akoysw sta radiofwna, diafora epixeirhmata apo tis etaireies kai qelw na sas rwthsw, ayto to metro einai efikto, isxyei, yparxei problhma kai qa isxyei kai gia osoys hdh katexoyn kartokinhta thlefwna;

ANTWNAROS: Oson afora to prwto skelos ths erwthsh sas, kanw thn prwth diapistwsh: To aporrhto twn thlepikoinwniwn sth xwra mas yfistatai kai qa ejakoloyqhsei na yfistatai. Den allazei kati.

Deyteron: To sygkekrimeno metro to opoio proanaggelqhke, efarmozetai hdh h brisketai sth diadikasia ths efarmoghs se polles xwres ths Eyrwphs, megales kai mikres. Apo tis megales, qa sas anaferw fer` eipein, th Germania, th Gallia, thn Ispania. Kai mikroteres, einai xwres opws h Slobakia kai h Oyggaria.

Triton: To metro ayto, bebaiws, qa melethqei. Qa melethqoyn oles oi parametroi toy kai qa parei to dromo poy xreiazetai, prokeimenoy na mpei se efarmogh.

Kai to teleytaio poy qelw na pw einai: Pragmatika me ekplhssei to gegonos oti kapoioi -den qelw na toys katonomasw- deixnoyn me th symperifora toys na bazoyn ta stena epixeirhmatika toys symferonta, xwris malista ayta na qigontai, panw apo to kalo toy topoy kai kyriws panw apo thn asfaleia toy kaqe polith kai ths xwras. Ayto einai aparadekto.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na mas ejhghsete ti sxesh exei h katarghsh ths anwnymias twn kartokinhtwn, me thn katastash stis fylakes; Afoy stis fylakes kanonika den yfistantai kartothlefwna, den prepei na yparxoyn kartothlefwna. Pws h kybernhsh ajiopoiei thn apodrash toy Palaiokwsta, gia na proxwrhsei se ena metro, to opoio plhttei dikaiwmata twn politwn;

ANTWNAROS: Kanena dikaiwma twn politwn den plhttei h sygkekrimenh nomoqetikh prwtoboylia. Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw, oti stis xwres poy proanefera kai dhmokratia leitoyrgei kai ta dhmokratika dikaiwmata ginontai sebasta kai ta anqrwpina dikaiwmata einai apolytws sebasta. Synepws, kanena apolytws qema den yparxei.

KAKALHS: Yparxei qema parakoloyqhshs twn politwn. Ayjanete me ayton ton tropo thn parakoloyqhsh twn politwn.

ANTWNAROS: Na sas pw kati: O nomotaghs poliths den exei tipote na fobhqei. Ekeinos o opoios exei na fobhqei, einai aytos poy eite skeftetai na diaprajei h exei diaprajei ajiopoines prajeis.

KAKALHS: Sto onoma aytoy toy epixeirhmatos exoyn katarghqei ola ta dikaiwmata.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Syggnwmh, alla hqela na pw ayto akribws poy eipe oti epeidh en pash periptwsei h kybernhsh sas den mporei na diaxeiristei diafora qemata, ap` ekei kai ystera qa mpainoyme se alloy eidoys diadikasies; Oysiastika syrriknwsh twn eleyqeriwn;

ANTWNAROS: Kamia syrriknwsh twn eleyqeriwn, gia na xrhsimopoihsw th dikh sas frash, den exei symbei kata th diarkeia ths diakybernhshs ths xwras apo ayth thn kybernhsh. Me thn prospaqeia dhmioyrgias entypwsewn poy orismenoi -kai den ennow esas fysika- prospaqoyn, epixeiroyn na prokalesoyn, den ginetai politikh.

Sas eipa oti tetoies ryqmiseis isxyoyn -h einai etoimes na isxysoyn- stis perissoteres xwres ths Eyrwphs, opoy den nomizw oti kapoios qa hqele na isxyristei oti den yparxei dhmokratia h oti den yparxei eleyqeria. Sas eipa: Oi nomotageis polites, den exoyn na fobhqoyn tipote.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo thn allh omws, aytos poy qelei na paranomhsei poy skeftetai na paranomhsei kai pairnei ena kinhto thlefwno ajiopoiwntas ayto poy shmera isxyei, thn anwnymia, qa brei tropoys na to kanei. Kai qa brei tropoys, eite giati sthn paranomia kykloforoyn afeidws plastes taytothtes, eite pio apla akoma, giati qa parei ena kinhto thlefwno apo mia geitonikh xwra kai qa to xrhsimopoihsei sthn Ellada, mesw twn yphresiwn poy prosferontai telos pantwn, me ta thlefwna allwn xwrwn. Mhpws telika h efarmogh toy metroy den prokeitai na apodwsei ta anamenomena; Giati kaqe paranomia exei tropoys na antidra se ayta ta pragmata.

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas pw oti h Politeia exei ypoxrewsh, opws exoyn oles oi eynomoymenes Politeies, na prospaqei na meiwsei tis dynatothtes poy exoyn osoi qeloyn na paranomhsoyn, na to kanoyn kai sthn prajh. Kai kaneis pote den isxyristhke oti qa ejafanistoyn oi paranomes prajeis. Allwste, gi` ayto kai yparxei kai h diadikasia ths timwrias oswn katafeygoyn se tetoies prajeis. To qema ayto, omws, to ejantlhsa. Den exw na pw tipote allo.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Ayto poy eipate, oti meros toy systhmatos einai diabrwmeno, diorqwste me ean kanw kapoio laqos sth diatypwsh, moy qymizei ayto poy eixe pei o k. Shmiths ``ayth einai h Ellada'' kai eixe dikaiws jeshkwsei thn orgh arketwn sympolitwn mas kai toy idioy toy shmerinoy Prwqypoyrgoy kai pollwn stelexwn ths neas kybernhshs.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den antilhfqhkate se poio systhma anaferqhka.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Nai, to sygkekrimeno systhma toy sygkekrimenoy xwroy. Den exei shmasia. To sygkekrimeno systhma, loipon, toy sygkekrimenoy xwroy einai jexwristo apo ton epoptiko rolo poy askei h kybernhsh panw se olo to kratos;

ANTWNAROS: Milaw gia to swfronistiko systhma. Einai safes ayto.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Bebaiws, poios to dioikei ayto;

ANTWNAROS: H Politeia exei ypoxrewsh na epiblepei kai na lambanei ola ta diorqwtika metra kai ola ta peiqarxika metra, ta opoia krinei oti einai aparaithta, otan diapistwsei ayto poy sas eipa. Etsi einai h katastash kai den prokeitai ayth th stigmh na kanoyme mia megalh filosofikh syzhthsh gia th leitoyrgia toy kratoys h alla paremferh qemata.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Pente xronia ti kanate;

ANTWNAROS: Diapistwnoyme oti einai toso diabrwmeno, wste xreiazontai - - akribws ayto eipa xqes kai lypamai poy den hsastan edw- - kai epipleon symplhrwmatika metra, wste ta apotelesmata na einai akomh pio xeiropiasta.

MELIGKWNHS: Wstoso, kyrie Ekproswpe, prokalei entypwsh kai mallon dinei to dikaiwma se osoys milane gia syrriknwsh twn atomikwn eleyqeriwn, to gegonos oti afoy paradexeste oti yparxei diabrwmeno kapoio meros toy swfronistikoy systhmatos, anti na jekinhsete apo ayto, jekinate apo alla pragmata. Dhladh, einai doyleia twn swfronistikwn ypallhlwn na frontizoyn na mhn exoyn oi kratoymenoi kinhta sta xeria toys. Anti na koitajete ayto, onomastikopoieite ta kartokinhta. To opoio den afora mono stis fylakes, afora se oloys toys anqrwpoys.

ANTWNAROS: To qema twn kartokinhtwn to ekleisa. Edwsa polles apanthseis. Einai safes to ti symbainei se olh thn Eyrwph. Den exw na pw kati allo sxetika. Kai bebaiws, lambanontai metra. Eipa kai xqes -hsastan edw parwn- oti h ereyna ginetai se dyo epipeda. Ginetai afenos sto dikastiko epipedo, poy einai kati poy den afora thn kybernhsh -den prokeitai na kanw kanena sxolio- kai afeteroy sto dioikhtiko epipedo, to opoio apotelei antikeimeno toy armodioy Ypoyrgeioy. Se ayto to deytero epipedo exei labei sygkekrimenes apofaseis kai prwtoboylies o armodios Ypoyrgos. Sas einai gnwstes. Den blepw logo na tis epanalabw.

SWTHRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, me dedomenes tis probleceis oti fetos h toyristikh kinhsh qa pesei se megala pososta kai xqes ola ta jena eidhseografika deltia edeixnan tis eikones poy oloi eidame. Kai oi toyristes poy qa elqoyn fetos sthn Ellada, den qa katsoyn na asxolhqoyn an exoyn paraithqei dyo Genikoi Grammateis, apla qa skefqoyn oti qa elqoyn se mia xwra poy mporei ena elikoptero na erqei na paralabei enan tajidiwth apo mia fylakh kai na ton paei kapoy. Den sas anhsyxei olo ayto; Exete problecei kapoia epipleon metra gia th beltiwsh ths eikonas ths xwras mas;

ANTWNAROS: Oi jenoi episkeptes ths xwras den apofasizoyn me krithria san ayto poy moy paroysiasate. Eipa kai xqes oti erxontai polla ekatommyria jenwn episkeptwn sth xwra, oi opoioi apolambanoyn th filojenia, thn asfaleia, th sigoyria, tis wraies paralies, ta mnhmeia poy diaqetei h Ellada kai ola ta alla poy apoteloyn ta sygkritika pleonekthmata ths xwras mas. Kai ayto qa synexisoyn na kanoyn.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Meta thn prwth apodrash toy k. Palaiokwsta, o k. Papalhgoyras, h kybernhsh sas, eixe parei mia seira apo metra poy molis prin apo ligo mas eipate oti efarmosthkan ayta ta metra. Eixe topoqethqei malista kai o eidikos grammateas, tote mas ton eixan paroysiasei ws manatzer, o opoios gnwrize kai mporoyse na efarmosei ayta ta metra gia tis fylakes kai oti en pash periptwsei htan o pleon eidikos. Ayton ton efage o k. Dendias molis proxqes. Telika efarmosthkan ta metra apo ton eidiko h den efarmosthkan;

ANTWNAROS: Ta metra efarmozontai apo toys armodioys foreis. Den efarmozontai apo ena atomo.

RABANOS: Qa gyrisw ligo sta oikonomika. Se mia epoxh poy polloi blepoyn thn epistrofh toy kratikoy prostateytismoy, arxizei h syzhthsh kai entos ths Neas Dhmokratias gia kratikopoihsh trapezwn, opws prosfata htan h protash toy k. Filippidh, toy proedroy toy Taxydromikoy Tamieythrioy. Pro hmerwn o proedros toy PASOK k. Papandreoy efere sto trapezi thn protash peri kratikopoihshs twn trapezwn. Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs;

ANTWNAROS: Egw den ekproswpw to komma ths Neas Dhmokratias. Ekproswpw thn kybernhsh.

RABANOS: Sthn kybernhsh anaferomai, kyrie Ekproswpe.

ANTWNAROS: Eipate entos ths Neas Dhmokratias. Mesa sthn kybernhsh den exei ginei tetoia syzhthsh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Qelw na rwthsw kati allo. Akoysame tis dhlwseis toy k. Dendia kai pragmatika deixnoyme katanohsh sto oti o Ypoyrgos brisketai mono se ayth th qesh liges hmeres. Mporeite na moy peite tote giati ``efage'' ton dieyqynth twn fylakwn, o opoios brisketai molis 20 hmeres stis fylakes;

ANTWNAROS: Dioti ayth einai h krish sthn opoia katelhje o armodios Ypoyrgos.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Isxyoyn dyo metra kai dyo staqma; Kai oi dyo dhladh den einai apeiroi;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka.

RABANOS: Qa epanelqw sthn erwthsh moy peri ths kratikopoihshs twn trapezwn kai qa hqela to sxolio sas sthn protash toy proedroy toy PASOK.

ANTWNAROS: Emeis pisteyoyme oti me tis prwtoboylies poy exei analabei egkairws h shmerinh kybernhsh gia th reystothta ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, to xrhmatopistwtiko systhma exei oles ekeines tis dynatothtes, ola ta ergaleia poy xreiazetai, prokeimenoy na antapokriqei plhrws ston koinwniko toy rolo. Kai gnwrizete oti labame kai symplhrwmatikes prwtoboylies thn perasmenh ebdomada. Einai gnwstes oi anakoinwseis, tis opoies ekane o armodios Ypoyrgos k. Papaqanasioy, prokeimenoy akomh perissotera xrhmata, akomh perissoteres dynatothtes na doqoyn se ekeinoys oi opoioi pragmatika prepei na wfelhqoyn. Dhladh, stoys oikogeneiarxes, stoys mikromesaioys, se ekeinoys poy perimenoyn na paroyn ta daneia apo tis trapezes. Ayth einai h qesh mas kai oi elegxoi qa einai aytoi poy epiballetai na einai.

MANH: Yparxoyn endeijeis, kyrie Ekproswpe, sthn kybernhsh oti to koino, to organwmeno egklhma, h tromokratia kai oi apagwges epixeirhmatiwn syndeontai;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw kamia tetoia endeijh.

GKATSIOS: Na epanelqw ligo sthn erwthsh toy k. Rabanoy. Eipate oti oi prwtoboylies ths kybernhshs gia th reystothta toy xrhmatopistwtikoy...

ANTWNAROS: Sthn oikonomia.

GKATSIOS: Sthn oikonomia, nai, exoyn dwsei sta xrhmatopistwtika idrymata ola ta ergaleia gia na antapokriqoyn ston koinwniko toys rolo. Pisteyete oti exoyn antapokriqei mexri twra ston koinwniko toys rolo;

ANTWNAROS: H diadikasia ayth brisketai se ejelijh. H symperifora twn trapezwn qa kriqei kai kaqe stigmh krinetai.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epanerxomai sto qema ths apodrashs toy Palaiokwsta kai anarwtiemai: Xqes apodwsate -exw edw tis dhlwseis sas- idiaiterh shmasia ston krisimo anqrwpino paragonta. Nomizw omws oti, an den me apata h mnhmh moy, h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias einai sthn ejoysia apo to 2004. Sas phre pente xronia gia na diapistwsete oti to systhma einai diabrwmeno ek twn esw;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa molis pro oligoy sxetika.

PALAIOLOGOS: Wraia. Erwthsh deyterh ep` aytoy. Epeidh eseis arneiste, ap` oti blepw periorizete tis politikes eyqynes se tria proswpa, opws eipate ki eseis xqes, paroti egw den hmoyn edw, ston proistameno toy Swmatos Epiqewrhshs, ston eidiko grammatea kai bebaiws o k. Dendias kai sto dieyqynth Swfronistikhs Politikhs toy Ypoyrgeioy, ton k. Koytsoykh. Wstoso omws yparxoyn boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias poy qewroyn oti qa eprepe na yparxoyn politikes paraithseis giati oi eyqynes einai politikes.

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, den sxoliazw pote dhlwseis boyleytwn. Deyteron, h qesh ths kybernhshs einai ayth thn opoia sas eipa.

PALAIOLOGOS: Allh einai h erwthsh moy, afhste tis dhlwseis twn boyleytwn tis opoies epikalesthka, giati arneiste tis politikes eyqynes se allo epipedo peran aytoy, twn triwn stelexwn toy Ypoyrgeioy.

ANTWNAROS: Ekana oloklhrh analysh xqes, thn opoia eyxaristws na sas thn janaparoysiasw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Omologw oti th diabasa treis fores, thn exw edw mazi moy, exw shmeiwsei sygkekrimena apospasmata kai milhsate kiolas gia symmetoxh ek twn esw. Gia to opoio eipate xarakthristika oti yparxoyn endeijeis. Egw epanerxomai kai lew: Xqes milhsate gia endeijeis. Shmera exete apodeijeis;

ANTWNAROS: Ola ayta ta pragmata, qa sas to pw gia mia akomh fora, den leitoyrgoyn me ton, toso aresto se sas, thleoptiko xrono.

PALAIOLOGOS: Sygnwmh, alla pente xronia einai h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias.

ANTWNAROS: Exw apanthsei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Stis 7 Martioy nomizw qa giortasete ta geneqlia sas.

ANTWNAROS: Prosejte, giati edw kanete mia hqelhmenh paranohsh, poy den qa hqela na kanete.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den ekana kamia. Poia einai h paranohsh;

ANTWNAROS: Moy eipate apo xqes gia shmera. An apo xqes oi endeijeis eginan shmera apodeijeis.

PALAIOLOGOS: An yparxoyn apodeijeis.

ANTWNAROS: Me rwthsate an apo xqes oi endeijeis eginan shmera apodeijeis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Bebaiws.

ANTWNAROS: Kai sas eipa oti h ereyna den leitoyrgei me ton, se esas aresto, thleoptiko xrono twn 24 wrwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kai emena h erwthsh moy einai eyqeia. Eseis pente xronia kybernate...

ANTWNAROS: Kai exw apanthsei hdh sxetika.

ZORMPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na epanelqw stis trapezes. Ektos apo paraineseis, paraklhseis kai epikriseis exei h kybernhsh kapoion allo moxlo pieshs, prokeimenoy na wqhsei, na anagkasei tis trapezes na antapokriqoyn ston koinwniko toys rolo ocepote fanerwqei oti den antapokrinontai;

ANTWNAROS: Ola ayta einai katagegrammena sth nomoqesia. Kai mhn jexnate allwste oti h Trapeza ths Ellados exei kai sygkekrimeno rolo, ston opoio antapokrinetai.

KAKALHS: Qa epanelqw sthn ypoqesh toy Palaiokwsta. H kybernhsh exei diapistwsei oti yparxei kapoio problhma me to nomiko plaisio kai toys kanonismoys gia th leitoyrgia twn idiwtikwn etairiwn elikopterwn; Kai an skeftetai na to epanejetasei kai na to allajei.

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka gia ayto xqes. Yparxei kai anakoinwsh ths Yphresias Politikhs Aeroporias.

KAKALHS: Kai mia deyterh erwthsh gia na mhn epanelqoyme se ayto. Se oti afora ta diabrwmena tmhmata toy systhmatos, poy eipate, qewreite tyxaio to gegonos oti einai diabrwmena mono enanti toy organwmenoy egklhmatos; Gia paradeigma, ti exete na apanthsete, as poyme, stoys goneis kai toys maqhtes toy 1OY Lykeioy Larisas poy proxqes mphkan mesa astynomikoi me th bia kai jylokophsan toys maqhtes;

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw to peristatiko. An einai etsi opws to metaferete, einai apolytws katakriteo. Alla to peristatiko den to gnwrizw, synepws den mporw na topoqethqw. Edw, syzhtoyme shmera ena sygkekrimeno symban. Eseis erxeste kai moy paroysiazete ena teleiws diaforetiko peristatiko -den exw logo na to amfisbhthsw- apo kapoia perioxh ths Elladas. Ti sxesh exei to ena me to allo;

KAKALHS: Exei megalh sxesh. Exei thn ejhs sxesh: oti apenanti sto organwmeno egklhma, eipate, o kratikos mhxanismos einai diabrwmenos, enw apenanti stis diekdikhseis twn maqhtwn einai qwrakismenos kai me to parapanw.

ANTWNAROS: Den mporw na sas parakoloyqhsw sthn skech sas.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mhpws tyxon qelete na zhthsete syggnwmh apo ton k. Xrysoxoidh, dedomenoy oti molis ena 24wro meta apo thn peribohth dhlwsh toy, ton opoio ton katakrinate para poly, skaiothta, ton paradwsate sthn xleyh toy kosmoy, erxetai na epibebaiwqei kai me ton pleon peritrano tropo ;

ANTWNAROS: Sas parapempw stis synolikes dhlwseis tis opoies exw kanei. Den anaferqhka se kanenan sygkekrimena. Eipa oti ``opoios exei th myga mygiazetai''.

MELIGKWNHS: Gia thn apodrash dyo erwthseis pali: Katarxas an mporeite na mas peite ligo pio sygkekrimena ti qa kanei aytos o manager, aytos o symboylos asfaleias poy qa proslhfqei me dieqnh diagwnismo gia tis fylakes kai kata deyteron an sthn kybernhsh yparxei enas problhmatismos oti, wraia, na allajoyn kapoia pragmata stis fylakes me to diabrwmeno systhma klp alla xwris na epibarynqei akomh parapanw h zwh olwn osoi einai mesa stis fylakes, twn kratoymenwn dhladh.

ANTWNAROS: H shmerinh kybernhsh exei kanei para polla gia thn poiothta ths diabiwshs oswn einai egkleistoi sta swfronistika idrymata. Eyxaristws argotera na sas dwsw enan plhrh katalogo. Synepws, ekeino to opoio mas endiaferei einai na mhn kanoyn kataxrhsh dikaiwmatwn, twn opoiwn exoyn h na mhn kanoyn kataxrhsh aytoy sto opoio anaferqhka kai egw: Toy diabrwmenoy tmhmatos toy systhmatos mesa stis fylakes.

MELIGKWNHS: Gia ton manager;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na pw kati parapanw apo o,ti eipe o Ypoyrgos. Kai den milhse gia manager. Milhse gia etairia symboylwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Stekomai pali sta xqesina sas logia k. Ekproswpe, me aformh thn apodrash toy Palaiokwsta kai toy synergoy toy: Eipate xarakthristika ``diapistwqhkan ateleies kai oson afora to anqrwpino dynamiko kai alles parametroys''. Anarwtiemai, ta metra poy ejhggeile o k. Anastashs Papalhgoyras, tote Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs, otan egine h prwth apodrash Palaiokwsta, ti apeginan;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka kai xqes kai shmera. Den exw skopo na epanalambanw tis idies apanthseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qelw na pw, efarmosthkan ayta ta metra;

ANTWNAROS: Xqes, edwsa epaneilhmmenes apanthseis. To idio ekana kai shmera.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ma, epikaloymai tis xqesines sas apanthseis, oi opoies -gia na tis apeyqynw ws erwthsh ek neoy- nomizw oti prepei na einai pio sygkekrimenes shmera.

ANTWNAROS: Menw stis apanthseis poy edwsa xqes kai stis apanthseis poy edwsa shmera.

PALAIOLOGOS: Lew, efarmosthkan pote ta metra toy k. Papalhgoyra;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws efarmosthkan, sas to exw pei. Kai eipa toys logoys gia toys opoioys krinetai kai h lhch symplhrwmatikwn metrwn. Den qa epanalambanw thn idia apanthsh treis kai tesseris fores, epeidh kapoios to qelei.

KAKALHS: Sthn ayrianh synedriash toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, mhpws prokeitai na syzhthqei kai to endexomeno epibolhs newn forwn, opws afhse anoixto o k. Papaqanasioy se kyriakatikh synenteyjh toy; Kai ti morfh qa exei; Toy ``kefalikoy foroy'' twn 1000 eyrw apo ena eisodhma kai panw h ths nomimopoihshs hmiypaiqriwn xwrwn;

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na syzhthqei tipote apo ola ayta ta opoia ypainisseste. Kai den prokeitai na syzhthqei gia enan poly aplo logo: O Ypoyrgos Oikonomias eipe ayto to opoio exoyme pei oloi mas epaneilhmmenws: H krish, h opoia brisketai se ejelijh, ayth h prwtognwrh krish, ths opoias tis parametroys kaneis den mporei na problecei, apaitei apo oloys mas na thn parakoloyqoyme apo konta, na kanoyme o,ti einai dynaton, prokeimenoy na meiwsoyme tis synepeies ths kai gia th xwra mas. Kai -to lew gia mia akomh fora- efoson kriqei anagkaio, na ginoyn oi aparaithtes prosarmoges, beltiwseis kai diorqwseis. Ayth einai h qesh ths kybernhshs, den allazei kai einai h ypeyqynh qesh poy prepei na exei, h ypeyqynh shmerinh kybernhsh ths xwras.

SPYRAKH: Epeidh to epanalambanete kai einai safes ayto, efoson kriqei anagkaio na ginoyn oi aparaithtes allages, beltiwseis h diorqwseis, qelw na rwthsw an stis endexomenes allages perilambanetai kai ayjhsh ameswn forwn.

ANTWNAROS: To exw pei kai alles fores: Pws qa sas milhsw gia kati to opoio eseis h idia apokaleite ``endexomeno'' th stigmh poy den exei prokycei to endexomeno; Einai entelws ypoqetiko, dioti den exei prokycei tetoio qema. Synepws den exei syzhthqei tetoio qema. Synepws den yparxei panw sto trapezi tetoio qema.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, an den yparxei anagkh, omws, gia kapoia kainoyrgia allagh sthn politikh, kapoia prosarmogh, gia pio logo sygkaleitai ayrio to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio; San epikoinwniakos antiperispasmos;

ANTWNAROS: Qa to pw kai gia mia akomh fora: H krish brisketai se synexh ejelijh. Emfanizontai synexeia kainoyrgia symptwmata ths krishs. Me ayth thn krish asxoloyntai synexws oi kybernhseis oloy toy kosmoy kai fysika kai ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, ths opoias eimaste melos. Ayto to Sabbatokyriako, sas ypenqymizw oti sygkaleitai gia pollosth fora ektakth Synodos twn arxhgwn kratwn kai kybernhsewn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs stis Bryjelles, sthn opoia qa symmetasxei kai o Prwqypoyrgos. Ayto akribws to gegonos deixnei oti yparxoyn synexeia kainoyrgia stoixeia, kainoyrgies parametroi, gia tis opoies fysika einai aparaithto na enhmerwnetai kai to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Den briskw dhladh poy yparxei to ajioperiergo.

KAKALHS: Mhpws prokeitai na syzhthsete ti qema toy eyrwomologoy, ths ekdoshs eyrwomologoy; Kai poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs panw se ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Moy lete na syzhthsoyme kati, to opoio den yparxei.

KAKALHS: Gia thn synedriash lew, thn synedriash koryfhs.

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei tetoio qema.

PALAIOLOGOS: Prin apo ligo apokleisate thn ayjhsh twn ameswn forwn kai twn emmeswn. Eidikotera gia ton legomeno ``kefaliko foro'', poy grafthke kai dhmosieythke...

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy epitrecete na epishmanw oti jerw akribws ti lew. Kai eipa oti den exei syzhthqei kati tetoio. Den yparxei sto trapezi kati tetoio, dioti den exei prokycei tetoio endexomeno.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qewreite ayta ta dhmosieymata eyfantasta senaria, dhladh;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqetoymai ek meroys ths kybernhshs. Den topoqetoymai epi dhmosieymatwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Mhpws einai ektimhsh toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqetoymai ek meroys ths kybernhshs kai sas diabebaiw oti o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias exei akribws thn idia qesh poy exw kai egw. Ekproswpw synolika thn kybernhsh kai ton Prwqypoyrgo.

MELIGKWNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate prin sthn k. Spyrakh oti den exei prokycei tetoio qema kai oti den exei syzhthqei. Omws, otan o idios o Prwqypoyrgos leei oti to dhmosio xreos einai terastio, otan yparxei antikeimenika problhma reystothtas, antikeimenika den tiqetai ena qema enisxyshs ths reystothtas toy kratoys; Oi foroi einai ena tetoio ergaleio, ara h idia h zwh to fernei ayto to pragma.

ANTWNAROS: H perikoph twn dapanwn, thn opoia exoyme anakoinwsei kai sthn opoia proxwroyme me sygkekrimenes prwtoboylies kai me sygkekrimenes energeies, einai ekeino to ergaleio, to opoio qeloyme na xrhsimopoihsoyme, prokeimenoy na epiteyxqei, metajy twn allwn, kai aytos o stoxos.

Sas eyxaristw.

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