Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-02-19

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 19 Febroyarioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 187037878

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(190209)

O KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 19 Febroyarioy 2009

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Kalhmera.

Oloklhrwqhke, prin apo ligo, sto Megaro Majimoy, ypo thn proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Kwsta Karamanlh, h synedriash ths Diypoyrgikhs Epitrophs, sthn opoia syzhthqhkan sygkekrimena qemata sxetika me thn efarmogh kai thn ylopoihsh oswn exoyn apofasistei, gia thn peristolh twn dapanwn sto dhmosio tomea kaqws kai thn entatikopoihsh twn esodwn.

Kata th diarkeia ths synedriashs, o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Papaqanasioy enhmerwse toys paristamenoys gia th sygkekrimenh proergasia poy exei ginei sxetika me thn ylopoihsh twn metrwn, poy sas einai gnwsta, kyriws oson afora thn peristolh twn dapanwn se polloys tomeis toy Dhmosioy.

Endeiktika anaferw -giati exei kanei bebaiws dhlwseis kai o Ypoyrgos o k. Papaqanasioy, kata thn ejodo toy apo to Megaro Majimoy- thn perikoph, kata 10%, twn elastikwn dapanwn toy Dhmosioy, kata 10% twn symbasewn ergoy, th dhmioyrgia mias eniaias Arxhs gia thn plhrwmh twn apodoxwn olwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn kai genika -epanalambanw- thn ylopoihsh ekeinwn twn metrwn poy problepei to programma mas kai sto qema twn esodwn, etsi wste oi mhxanismoi toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn na ginoyn pio apodotikoi. Parapempw stis sygkekrimenes dhlwseis, poy ekane, allwste, kata thn ejodo toy o Ypoyrgos.

Qa hqela, epishs, na sas enhmerwsw oti h kybernhsh kateqese shmera sth Boylh to nomosxedio me to opoio parexetai h dynatothta stoys Ellhnes omogeneis na chfizoyn stis ekloges, ston topo opoy diamenoyn monima. Elpizoyme ws kybernhsh, oti h antipoliteysh -kai anaferomai kyriws, alla oxi apokleistika, sthn ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh- den qa meinei sth steira qesh poy deixnei na akoloyqei mexri stigmhs kai den qa sterhsei apo toys omogeneis to dikaiwma, poy toys parexetai se efarmogh diatajewn toy Syntagmatos, na chfizoyn ston topo opoy pragmatika diamenoyn.

Na mhn ypoballontai, dhladh, kaqe fora, kaqe tessera xronia poy ginontai ekloges (alla kai stis eyrwekloges kai tis dhmotikes ekloges, opotedhpote exoyn dhladh th dynatothta na chfisoyn) sth diadikasia na erxontai sthn patrida mas. Kalodexoymenoi einai bebaia, alla na mhn ypoballontai ston kopo kai thn apwleia xronoy, prokeimenoy na chfisoyn.

Einai gnwsto oti to nomosxedio ayto einai apotelesma dialogoy. Exei prohghqei dialogos. H kybernhsh meta to dialogo ton opoio ekane me ola ta emplekomena merh, ennow bebaia kai toys ekproswpoys twn omogenwn mas, katelhje sth sygkekrimenh protash. H ryqmish ayth, opws allwste exoyme pei kai meta th syzhthsh toy nomosxedioy poy egine prosfata, opws gnwrizete, sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph, exei metabatiko xarakthra. Na efarmostei, dhladh, sthn prajh kai na doyme ean xreiazetai na ginoyn kapoies allages, kapoies metatropes, kapoies ryqmiseis, wste aytes na ginoyn.

Shmantiko einai na apofasistei apo th Boylh, me thn ayjhmenh pleiochfia, poy problepetai gia ena tetoio nomosxedio, h ryqmish ayth, wste oi omogeneis mas, oi sympatriwtes mas poy zoyn pera apo ta synora ths xwras, na apokthsoyn to dikaiwma chfoy ekei poy pragmatika zoyn.

Qa hqela na epanelqw, gia ena poly aplo logo, se ena qema poy eqesa tis teleytaies hmeres. Anaferomai eidika sto qema ths koinwnikhs ergasias, to opoio to PASOK apofeygei na sygkekrimenopoihsei. O arxhgos toy anaferetai se ayto, xwris na mas leei peri tinos prokeitai. Ayth h axly mysthrioy me thn opoia periballei to PASOK to sygkekrimeno qema, to kaqista apo monh ths ypopto.

Xqes, enas synadelfos sas edw, se ayth thn aiqoysa -den ton blepw shmera- moy eipe oti otan to PASOK -moy epibebaiwse dhladh, dioti to gnwriza- efarmose sto parelqon mia antistoixh morfh ergasias, ayth htan anasfalisth kai periorismenoy xronoy. Perimenoyme, loipon, apo ton arxhgo toy PASOK na dieykrinisei, gia ti eidoys doyleia miloyn:

Asfalismenh h anasfalisth;

Monimh h sygkekrimenoy xronoy;

Plhroys apasxolhshs h merikhs apasxolhshs;

Gia posoys anqrwpoys milane;

Poy qa apasxolhqoyn;

Poioi qa plhrwsoyn toys misqoys toys;

Sygkekrimena pragmata. As mhn apofeygoyn na apanthsoyn. To oti apofeygoyn, apodeiknyei aplws oti den exoyn tipote sygkekrimeno na poyn.

Parathrhsame kai xqes, opws exei ginei syxna sto prosfato parelqon, oti koryfaia stelexh toy PASOK den distazoyn na eleeinologoyn, na milane asxhma gia ton idio mas ton topo. Na dhmioyrgoyn entypwseis me thn epilogh sygkekrimenwn lejewn, poy den exoyn kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta.

Ti leei gia ola ayta o arxhgos toy PASOK; Ti leei o k. Papandreoy; Symfwnei me aytes tis proseggiseis; Symfwnei me aytes tis topoqethseis poy kanoyn koryfaia stelexh toy kai den exoyn, profanws, allo stoxo apo to na apokomisoyn mikrokommatika ofelh, na ikanopoihsoyn, profanws, th boylimia gia ejoysia poy toys diakatexei; Katastrofologoyn. To katalabainoyn; Den jerw an to katalabainoyn. Pantws, den qa petyxoyn stoys stoxoys toys.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SPYRAKH: Me sygxwreite poy epembainw, alla poioys akribws ennoeite, giati exw adynamia stis mantecies.

ANTWNAROS: O,ti eixa na pw, to eipa.

PALAIOLOGOS: Anafereste mhpws ston k. Xrysoxoidh poy milhse shmera oti h Aqhna qymizei Kampoyl;

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw: O,ti eixa na pw to eipa. Oloys aytoys toys paradidw sth xleyh twn Ellhnwn politwn.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Exete dikio se sxesh me ayto poy perigracate prin gia ta stelexh toy PASOK, alla qelw na moy peite, eseis pws krinete ton boyleyth ths pleiochfias, ton k. Karaogloy, o opoios milwntas ston AQHNA 9,84 eipe oti ``protimw anti na me lene antarth, apo to na kanw to ... '', eipe o idios xarakthristika. O nown nohtw, den nomizw oti qelei peraiterw dieykriniseis. Kai otan exeis ena boyleyth poy dhmosia bgainei kai topoqeteitai etsi, eseis ti lete oti mporei na symbainei;

ANTWNAROS: Kanena sxolio.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, se poia kateyqynsh skeptetai h kybernhsh na prosarmosei to epikairopoihmeno programma staqerothtas, efoson shmera syzhthqhke ayto kai sth diypoyrgikh Epitroph kai eginan kai sxetikes diergasies. Exete na mas anakoinwsete, poios einai o dromos poy qa akoloyqhsete, wste na prosarmosteite tis epitages ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs kai twn agorwn, opws eipe xarakthristika o k. Almoynia;

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den egine safes ayto to opoio eipa. H ellhnikh kybernhsh exei epilejei sygkekrimeno sxedio, exei sygkekrimeno programma, to opoio kai efarmozei. Ep` aytoy toy sxedioy, ep` aytoy toy programmatos, to opoio einai xeiropiasto, einai sygkekrimeno, perilambanei stoixeia poy oloi gnwrizoyn, ep` aytoy, loipon, ginetai kai h syzhthsh, h synexhs diaboyleysh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

Emeis eimaste apofasismenoi, emeis exoyme thn politikh boylhsh, staqera, eylabika qa sas elega, na efarmosoyme ola ayta ta opoia exoyme pei. Kai ayto qa kanoyme. Kai eimaste bebaioi, oti efarmozontas ayta ta opoia exoyme anaggeilei kai ta opoia twra ginontai prajh, qa petyxoyme toys stoxoys mas.

Epishmainw -epeidh eipate kati prohgoymenws- oti sthn oikonomikh Epitroph syzhthqhkan oi ektelestikes apofaseis. Prokeitai, dhladh, gia to epomeno bhma poy prepei na ginei, prokeimenoy na ylopoihqoyn ayta ta opoia -an qymamai kala, dyo ebdomades prin- eixame proanaggeilei.

Oi yphresies toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy, pairnontas ypoch ayta poy eixan proanaggelqei -sygkekrimena stoixeia, ta qymaste, ta eixe anaferei se dhmosia topoqethsh toy o k. Papaqanasioy kai argotera me mia allh eykairia kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos sth Boylh- ayta ta stoixeia ta ebalan katw oi Arxes toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy, proetoimasan ekeines tis apofaseis kai to plaisio to opoio xreiazetai, prokeimenoy ayta na ginoyn prajh. Kai ayth h ylopoihsh syzhthqhke kai apofasisthke, shmera.

Sas eipa jana tis kateyqynseis. Ayta ta opoia, tolmw na pw, merikes fores tis teleytaies hmeres ta paroysiazete ws kainoyrgia -oxi eseis kyria Spyrakh, genika- thn peristolh kata 10% twn mh anelastikwn dapanwn toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy, den apofasisthke xqes h proxqes. Exei apofasistei edw kai kairo. Ayta exoyn apostalei stis Bryjelles. Einai gnwsta.

Emeis eimaste apofasismenoi, opws sas eipa ypeyqyna, me th swfrosynh poy mas diakrinei, me ton tropo poy gnwrizete oti efarmozoyme, o,ti apofasizoyme, na to kanoyme prajh. Giati ena pragma mas endiaferei kai mono: To symferon ths xwras kai olwn twn Ellhnwn politwn.

GKATSIOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h protash ths kybernhshs gia eqnikh synennohsh sta megala problhmata poy apasxoloyn ton topo, brisketai se isxy meta kai tis teleytaies topoqethseis stelexwn toy PASOK, poy eseis prin ligo xarakthrisate katastrofologikes;

ANTWNAROS: H protash gia synennohsh einai panta panw sto trapezi. H protash gia synennohsh ginetai kai me thn ypobolh shmera, toy sygkekrimenoy nomosxedioy gia thn paroxh chfoy stoys omogeneis, ekei opoy pragmatika zoyn. As proselqoyn oloi, ekei poy qa syzhthqei to nomosxedio, dhladh, sth Boylh, efoson sta mexri twra stadia den egine dynaton na epelqei symfwnia, na ypobaloyn tis protaseis toys. Na kanoyn beltiwtikes protaseis, an yparxoyn. H kybernhsh einai anoikth se ola ta qemata. O dialogos einai dhmosios.

Qa sas ypenqymisw oti molis xqes, paroysiasthke apo ton k. Soyflia, sygkekrimeno xwrotajiko sxedio gia th biomhxania. Den ginetai syzhthsh panw s` ayto; Den exoyn oloi th dynatothta na poyn tis apoceis toys; Kapoia stigmh, omws, h syzhthsh ejantleitai. Kapoia stigmh prepei ena qema na fqasei pros chfish. O dialogos den einai xwris telos. O dialogos den mporei na exei to xarakthra ths synexoys anablhtikothtas. H pleiochfia exei thn ypoxrewsh na analabei tis prwtoboylies poy apaitoyn oi kairoi gia na nomoqetei. Giati o topos den mporei na menei se keno, epeidh kapoioi exoyn epilejei gia dikoys toys logoys na lene synexws oxi se ola.

SPYRAKH: O Prwqypoyrgos ton Dekembrio anakoinwse ena paketo gia ton toyrismo to opoio akomh den exei nomoqethqei. Epipleon, yparxei mia dhmosia dienejh anamesa sthn KEDKE kai to Ypoyrgeio Toyrismoy gia thn katabolh h oxi apo thn pleyra twn jenodoxwn toy teloys parepidhmoyntwn. Qelete na mas peite poio einai to xronodiagramma ths kybernhshs gia to pote qa nomoqethqei to paketo gia ton toyrismo kai an telika oi jenodoxoi qa katabaloyn h oxi to telos parepidhmoyntwn;

ANTWNAROS: Osa exei anakoinwsei o Prwqypoyrgos, opws swsta eipate, qa ginoyn prajh. Entos twn amesws epomenwn hmerwn katatiqentai oi synolikes ryqmiseis sth Boylh. To lew ayto, dioti xreiasthke kapoio diasthma -allwste mhn jexnate oti briskomaste akomh sthn arxh ths toyristikhs xronias- prokeimenoy na ginei h nomotexnikh epejergasia olwn twn sygkekrimenwn prwtoboyliwn poy lambanei h kybernhsh gia thn tonwsh enos poly shmantikoy tomea ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, poy einai fysika o toyrismos.

Ola, loipon, osa anakoinwqhkan, ola, ginontai prajh. Giati exoyme ftasei sto stadio ths ylopoihshs.

Qa hqela de na pw -epeidh akoysthkan xqes kai apo thn pleyra toy PASOK kapoies dhqen protaseis- oti polles apo aytes tis protaseis einai: Prwton, anedafikes. Deyteron, den einai synnomes, den einai symbates me to eyrwpaiko dikaio.

Loipon, opoios qelei na kanei protaseis, kalo einai na mhn tis kanei gia logoys poy prosomoiazoyn se pyrotexnhmata. Kalo einai na tis kanei kai na pataei, otan tis kanei, kai me ta dyo podia panw sth gh.

SPYRAKH: Pantws, kyrie Ekproswpe, den erxetai apo thn pleyra toy PASOK h apeilh gia paraithsh apo thn proedria ths KEDKE, alla apo thn pleyra toy Dhmarxoy Aqhnaiwn, o opoios einai kai proedros, se periptwsh poy stamathsei h eisroh stoys Organismoys Topikhs Aytodioikhshs toy teloys parepidhmoyntwn. Mas lete edw, oti ola osa anakoinwqhkan qa ginoyn prajh.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa: Ginontai prajh.

SPYRAKH: Nai, ginontai prajh. Rixnete sthn pragmatikothta to ganti ston k. Kaklamanh;

ANTWNAROS: Einai desmeyseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai qa ylopoihqoyn.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na mas dieykrinisete an ta metra poy syzhthqhkan shmera sth Diypoyrgikh Epitroph einai metra poy perilambanontai sto epikairopoihmeno programma staqerothtas h einai ta epipleon metra poy zhtaei h Komision me tis systaseis ths;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, den einai epipleon metra. Kala kanete kai qetete thn erwthsh. Pragmatika, sas eyxaristw. Einai safes ayto: Den prokeitai gia kati kainoyrio. Einai qemata ta opoia perilambanontai me kaqe leptomereia sto epikairopoihmeno programma. Perilambanontai stis sygkekrimenes anakoinwseis -to lew ayto gia na mhn yparjei kamia paranohsh- tis opoies ekane o k. Papaqanasioy, ean qymamai kala, prin apo dyo ebdomades. Den prokeitai gia kati kainoyrgio. Prokeitai gia sygkekrimena metra ta opoia twra ylopoioyntai. Sas epanalambanw ta shmantikotera apo ayta:

H peristolh kata 10% twn mh anelastikwn dapanwn toy dhmosioy tomea.

H peristolh kata 10% twn symbasewn ergoy.

H dhmioyrgia enos eniaioy forea, mesw toy opoioy qa kataballontai oi synolikes amoibes twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, oswn ergazontai gia to ellhniko dhmosio.

Epishs, h peristolh twn dapanwn, twn misqwn, twn stelexwn twn DEKO.

Ola ayta fantazomai oti ta qymaste. Exoyn hdh anakoinwqei.

KAKALHS: Eylogo to epomeno erwthma. Apo th stigmh poy den einai metra ta opoia systhnei h Komision, den perilambanontai sthn ylopoihsh twn systasewn ths Komision, pote h kybernhsh qa parei ayta ta metra gia na symmorfwqei me tis epipleon systaseis ths Komision; Prin h meta tis ekloges;

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, gia to qema twn eklogwn exw topoqethqei. Den exw na pw tipote kainoyrio. Deyteron, eipa pws -kai to lew gia mia akomh fora- emeis pisteyoyme oti to synolo aytwn twn prwtoboyliwn poy exoyme labei, arkei, prokeimenoy na antapokriqoyme stis prodiagrafes, entos twn opoiwn prepei na kinoyntai oles oi xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

Kai epanalambanw ayto to opoio eipa kai xqes: Emeis pisteyoyme oti ayto qa ginei. Ean kai opote xreiastei, den qa distasoyme na kanoyme tis aparaithtes prosarmoges giati etsi ginetai se olh thn Eyrwph. H oikonomikh krish einai synexws ejelissomenh. Exei olo kai kainoyrgies parafyades. Exei olo kai kainoyrgies diastaseis. Kaneis den mporei ayth th stigmh na gnwrizei akomh to baqos ths.

Sas ypenqymizw ena aplo qema: Molis proxqes anakoinwqhke oti se mia isxyrh xwra, opws einai h Germania, exei megalo problhma mia megalh istorikh aytokinhtobiomhxania. Ayto to qema prin apo 10 hmeres, den yphrxe. Prepei, loipon, h germanikh kybernhsh na skycei panw apo to problhma kai na dei pws qa antimetwpisei to sygkekrimeno zhthma.

Otan, loipon, prokyptoyn tetoia problhmata se kaqe xwra oi Arxes exoyn ypoxrewsh na antidroyn me th swfrosynh kai thn ypeyqynothta poy prepei na diakrinei kaqe kybernhsh -kai fysika ayta ta xarakthristika diakrinoyn kai th dikh mas kybernhsh- sta qemata ta opoia prokyptoyn. Ayto kai kanoyme.

KAKALHS: Poios einai o xarakthras twn diaboyleysewn poy lete oti kanete me thn Komision kai tis Bryjelles;

ANTWNAROS: H Komision exei diaforetikh proseggish apo emas. Anaferomai -qa to pw gia mia akomh fora- akomh kai sto qema toy ryqmoy anaptyjhs. H Epitroph leei oti qa exoyme anaptyjh sto trexon etos 0,2%. Emeis leme oti qa exoyme 1,1%. Analytikes topoqethseis panw se ayto to qema ekane xqes o k. Papaqanasioy, stis opoies kai sas parapempw.

Emeis pisteyoyme oti qa petyxoyme toys stoxoys. Kai an petyxoyme toys stoxoys, den xreiazetai na ginei kati allo. Alla epimenw: H krish einai se ejelijh. Kaneis den prepei ayto na to paragnwrizei. Kai kyriws, eimai bebaios, oti oi Ellhnes polites kai krish exoyn kai jeroyn na plhroforoyntai to ti akribws ginetai se olo ton kosmo. Exoyn kalh eikona ths pragmatikothtas oxi mono sthn Ellada, alla kai pera apo ta synora mas.

SWTHRIADOY: Qymomaste oloi th diafwnia metajy toy k. Soyflia kai toy k. Alogoskoyfh, toy tote Ypoyrgoy Oikonomikwn gia to qema ths ayjhshs twn dhmosiwn ependysewn. Kai sthn prohgoymenh synedriash ths Diypoyrgikhs, o k. Soyflias mas eixe pei oti den exei syzhthqei ayto to qema, alla qa syzhthqei se poly syntomo xrono. Mhpws syzhthqhke shmera;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to prohgoymeno diasthma h kybernhsh anakoinwse ena synoliko paketo metrwn enisxyshs kapoiwn asqenestera oikonomika omadwn, plhqysmoy, epixeirhmatikwn omadwn, ayta toy toyrismoy klp. Ena synoliko paketo anakoinwse. Ayto to paketo yparxei to endexomeno, analoga me thn ejelijh ths krishs kai analoga me ta osa synebhsan tis teleytaies hmeres sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, dhladh me to neo kaqestws poy briskomaste, na allajoyn kapoia apo ta metra ayta; Na katarghqoyn h oi paroxes aytes na mikrynoyn;

ANTWNAROS: O,ti exei apofasistei efarmozetai kai ylopoieitai. Sas eipa oti opoies prosarmoges xreiastoyn, qa ginoyn. Qa htan aneyqyno apo opoiadhpote kybernhsh na mhn kanei to aytonohto: Tis prosarmoges poy xreiazontai, tis beltiwseis poy xreiazontai.

TSIOYFOS: Ayto lew. Sto plaisio aytwn twn prosarmogwn yparxei to endexomeno kapoia apo ta metra poy exoyn anakoinwqei eite na mhn isxysoyn, eite na isxysoyn se mikroterh ektash; Ayto rwtaw.

ANTWNAROS: Diakrinomaste ws kybernhsh gia thn ylopoihsh oswn anakoinwnoyme. Anakoinwnoyme pragmata poy einai realistika, wste kai na mporoyme na ta efarmozoyme. Se antiqesh me alloys poy fainetai na mhn jeroyn ti ginetai ston kosmo. Synepws, emeis milame gia shmera, milame gi` ayta poy exoyn ginei mexri twra, milame gia pragmata ta opoia einai aparaithta gia ton topo kai oloys toys anqrwpoys poy zoyn edw. Ayto kanoyme kai qa ejakoloyqhsoyme na kanoyme. Den mporw na sas apanthsw se ypoqetika erwthmata.

TSIOYFOS: Ypoqetiko einai; Rwtaw: Exete anakoinwsei kapoia metra, sygkekrimena metra.

ANTWNAROS: Malista. Qa sas pw kati poly aplo. Gia na ta anakoinwsoyme, krinoyme oti prepei ayta ta metra na ylopoihqoyn. Kai ylopoioyntai.

TSIOYFOS: Bebaiws. Symfwnw. Krinate tote oti eprepe na ylopoihqoyn. Omws epeidh akribws h krish, eseis to lete, oti einai se ejelijh, epeidh panta yparxei kindynos na emfanistoyn kainoyrgia pragmata ta opoia den einai gnwsta shmera, ayta ta metra poy exoyn anakoinwqei, endexetai, an exoyme mia tetoia ejelijh, na allajoyn;

ANTWNAROS: Einai safes ayto poy eipa.

TSIOYFOS: Den einai kaqoloy ypoqetiko pantws ayto poy rwtaw.

ANTWNAROS: Ma, me rwthsate molis ean qa allajoyn h den qa efarmostoyn.

XRHSTAKOS: Epeidh, kyrie Ekproswpe, egw den exw katalabei to ejhs: To epikairopoihmeno sxedio ths xwras perilambanei kapoia pragmata ta opoia, opws mas eipate prin gia na mhn to dieykrinisete jana, yphrxan oytws h allws stis desmeyseis kai tis apofaseis ths kybernhshs. Ennow thn peristolh twn dapanwn...

ANTWNAROS: Na pw ta ejhs: Ayta ta qemata, twn opoiwn h ylopoihsh, mphke shmera sto aylaki, perilambanontai hdh sto tropopoihmeno sxedio. Ti qelw na pw me ayto; Gia na ylopoihqei mia apofash xreiazetai proetoimasia. Eidika otan prokeitai gia kati poy einai poly synqeto, opws h peristolh twn elastikwn dapanwn se olo to dhmosio. Prepei na ginoyn oi sxetikoi ypologismoi, na bgoyn oi sxetikes ektelestikes apofaseis. Gia ola ayta kai ton tropo me ton opoio qa ylopoihqoyn ayta ta metra, mas enhmerwse shmera o k. Papaqanasioy. Den hqela na sas diakocw, qelhsa aplws na to dieykrinisw gia mia akomh fora.

XRHSTAKOS: Ki egw gi` ayto rwtw ep` aytoy kai qa to synexisw to erwthma moy, legontas to ejhs. Gia poio pragma rwtw; Dioti akoyw apo koryfaia stelexh toy PASOK kai apo ton ekproswpo toy, an den kanw laqos, oti ola ta xronia poy eixate th diakybernhsh ths xwras, para to gegonos oti eixate ejaggeilei ola ayta ta metra, dhladh peristolh dapanwn, meiwsh twn kratikwn, twn dhmosiwn esodwn kai ola ta ypoloipa, se kairoys poy den yphrxe h krish, ola ta prohgoymena xronia dhladh, xrhsimopoioyn ariqmoys kai lene oti oyte to elleimma meiwqhke, oyte kamia tetoia peristolh egine. To erwthma moy gia na katalhjw einai to ejhs: Ayta qa ginontan, ginontan h eginan logw anagkhs epikairopoihmenoy programmatos;

ANTWNAROS: To PASOK kai o proedros toy jexnane kati: Oti paredwsan th xwra to 2004 me ena plasmatika xamhlo elleimma poy den yphrxe. To pragmatiko elleimma htan 7,5%. Pws epese to elleimma apo to 7,5%, opws to pistopoihse h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph sto tria tois ekato syn poy einai shmera; Metajy twn allwn kai me peristolh dapanwn. Exete thn entypwsh oti ayto egine me kapoia qeia epifoithsh; Kati tetoio den ginetai mono toy. Apedwsan, loipon, ola ayta ta metra ths kybernhshs.

Einai laqos ayto poy leei to PASOK. Einai parapeistiko ayto poy leei h hgetikh omada toy PASOK. Den exei kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta. Dioti tote ekeinoi eferan th xwra to 2004, se mia katastash, pragmatikh katastash -kai den milaw gia thn eikonikh katastash poy nomizan oti eixan dhmioyrghsei- gia thn opoia oloi oi Ellhnes xreiasthke na katabaloyn megales prospaqeies gia na meiwsoyn to elleimma. Kai jexnane, bebaia -giati oi ekproswpoi toy PASOK einai arximageires sta oikonomika kai lene oti ayjhqhke o ejwterikos daneismos apo to 1990 kai meta kata toso tois ekato- kati para poly aplo: Apo to 1981 poy anelaban ekeinoi th diakybernhsh ths xwras, tote poy h xwra eixe poly xamhlo ejwteriko daneismo -kai eidika sta prwta, dyskola xronia ths metapoliteyshs- ypertriplasiasan ton daneismo. Loipon, ayta einai ta mageiremata gia ta opoia toys eixan katalabei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Qymaste oles tis epistoles poy estelnan apo th Statistikh Yphresia ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai profanws tis erixnan sta kalaqia twn axrhstwn giati den toys boleye. As ta jexasoyn. Emeis den ta jexname.

MANH: Sta plaisia twn anaprosarmogwn, poy eipate kai eseis prin apo ligo, logw ths ejelissomenhs oikonomikhs krishs, syzhta h kybernhsh tis protaseis toy Proedroy toy EBEA toy k. Mixaloy; Gia thn merikh ergasia, ennow.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora: H kybernhsh den exei syzhthsei kamia prosarmogh. To lew apla. H kybernhsh leei oti me ayta ta opoia exei kanei -kai ta opoia exei apofasisei kai ta opoia exei ypobalei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh- mporei na petyxei toys stoxoys. Opote xreiastei, ean xreiastei, efoson xreiastei qa ginoyn prosarmoges, beltiwseis. Den exei, omws, ginei kamia syzhthsh...

MANH: Ayto ennow, twn anaprosarmogwn poy qa ginoyn. Ayto ennow.

ANTWNAROS: Ma pws qa syzhthsw kati, toy opoioy h anagkh den exei prokycei.

SPYRAKH: Dhladh to afhnete anoixto k. Ekproswpe;

ANTWNAROS: Den afhnw tipote anoixto. Ean me rwthsete ean qa brejei ayrio, qa sas pw oti den jerw, dioti pragmatika den to jerw. Den paei na pei oti afhnw anoixto to an qa brejei.

MANH: Kyrie Ekproswpe oi protaseis toy k. Mixaloy den einai fysiko fainomeno.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei labei sygkekrimenes prwtoboylies, stis opoies exei topoqethqei. Th kybernhsh desmeyoyn oi idies ths oi prwtoboylies, oi idies ths oi politikes, oi idies ths oi prajeis. Den th desmeyoyn se tipote, oyte oi prajeis oyte ta logia allwn.

SPYRAKH: Na rwthsw kati; Sto plaisio ths politikhs kateyqynshs poy yparxei gia elastikothta sthn agora ergasias en mesw krishs, oi protaseis toy k. Mixaloy pws antimetwpizontai apo thn kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn topoqethqei oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi.

PALAIOLOGOS: Hqela na rwthsw epeidh epikalesthkate arketes fores th frash gia thn anagkh peristolhs twn dapanwn sto dhmosio tomea. Se ayto symperilambanontai dhmosioi foreis kai organismoi, opws h ERT; Kai ep eykairia poso kostise olo ayto to show gia thn ypochfiothta toy k. Royba;

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, na apeyqynqeite ston sygkekrimeno forea. Deyteron, sthn anakoinwsh ths oikonomikhs epitrophs, einai katagegrammeno me apolyth leptomereia to poioys organismoys aforoyn oi perikopes.

PALAIOLOGOS: Dhladh den perilambanontai...

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw, na diabasete tis anakoinwseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den einai dhmosios foreas h ERT; Den einai dhmosios organismos;

ANTWNAROS: Diabaste tis anakoinwseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Lew an perilambanetai, gia na mas peite poso kostise; Ayto lew.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw: Diabaste tis anakoinwseis.

ZORMPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa epanelqw sto qema toy k. Mixaloy. Prin ligo kairo, otan eixe pesei gia prwth fora h protash sto trapezi, h kybernhsh kai dia ths armodias Ypoyrgoy, alla kai eseis edw apo ayth thn aiqoysa, eixate aporricei, meta bdelygmias, thn opoiadhpote syzhthsh gia ayto to qema. Qa prepei na synagoyme kapoio symperasma me to oti twra topoqeteiste mallon, ligo pio, to afhnete anoixto;

ANTWNAROS: Qa to pw gia mia akomh fora: Exoyn topoqethqei, sto sygkekrimeno qema, oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi. Sthn Ellada yparxei sxetikh nomoqesia, h opoia kai efarmozetai.

KAKALHS: Ayth akribws h nomoqesia, einai akribws h protash toy Mixaloy. Epitrepetai h ek peritrophs ergasia.

ANTWNAROS: Sthn Ellada efarmozetai h nomoqesia. Oi nomoi prepei na einai sebastoi sth xwra, apo oloys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Allh erwthsh hqela na kanw, alla epeidh to qema toy Mixaloy blepw na kyriarxei, prepei na poyme oti kai o k. Probopoylos edeije pros thn kateyqynsh twn apocewn toy k. Mixaloy.

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Malista. H epomenh erwthsh moy, tote, epeidh epixeireite eseis apo ayto to bhma na kleisete to qema ths eklogologias, blepw omws oti mallon den peiqete oyte ta idia ta stelexh sas. Oi boyleytes ennow ths Neas Dhmokratias kai plhqainoyn oi fwnes, qa epikalestw th xqesinh fwnh toy Sabba Tsitoyridh kai toy k. Nikhforakh, boyleytwn ths Neas Dhmokratias, poy sthn oysia qewroyn pws einai qema ths proswpikhs eyqynhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy na kleisei to qema ths eklogologias.

ANTWNAROS: H erwthsh sas poia einai;

PALAIOLOGOS: Ti apantate eseis. Gia poio logo den mporeite na peisete oyte kan ta stelexh sas, oti den eyqyneste eseis gia thn eklogologia;

ANTWNAROS: Den qa topoqethqw, bebaiws, epi dhlwsewn boyleytwn. Qa sas parotrynw omws na diabasete gia mia akomh fora tis topoqethseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Einai jekaqares.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den nomizw. To ekleise mono proswrina. Qa elega gia kana - dyo mhnes mono.

ANTWNAROS: Ayto einai sxolio diko sas, to opoio den me briskei symfwno.

PALAIOLOGOS: Tote giati lene oti einai qema proswpikhs eyqynhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai to lene oi boyleytes sas, den to lene oi boyleytes toy PASOK.

ANTWNAROS: Oso ki an prospaqeite kaqe mera, se ayth thn aiqoysa, na me odhghsete sta monopatia ths eklogologias, den qa to petyxete. O,ti eixa na pw, to eipa.

XIDIROGLOY: Epitrecte moy na pame ligo pisw sto qema ths chfoy twn omogenwn. Eipate oti to nomosxedio to opoio katateqhke einai apotelesma dialogoy me ekproswpoys twn omogenwn.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Eipa: Kai me ekproswpoys twn omogenwn.

XIDIROGLOY: Kai me ekproswpoys twn omogenwn. Swsta. H prwth moy erwthsh einai an exoyn enswmatwqei sto nomosxedio ta qemata ta opoia eqesan oi omogeneis sto trapezi kai an kata th diarkeia ths syzhthshs sthn Olomeleia, h kybernhtikh pleiochfia einai diateqeimenh na labei ypoch ths, tis parathrhseis twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs kai na diamorfwsei analoga to nomosxedio.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh katelhje sth sygkekrimenh nomoqetikh ryqmish, dioti pisteyei oti ayth einai h pio wfelimh, h prosforoterh gia thn epilysh toy sygkekrimenoy qematos. Opws antilambaneste apo polles pleyres akoygontai diafores apoceis. Ena nomosxedio den diatypwnetai me enallaktikh morfh. Den yparxoyn enallaktikes diatypwseis.

H kybernhsh kanei protash. Einai sygkekrimeno to montelo to opoio exei epilejei. Sas eipa kai prohgoymenws: Epilegetai ayto to montelo -opws exoyme pei kai kata th syzhthsh kai prosfata- me metabatiko xarakthra. Na efarmostei sthn prajh. Na doyme ti qa apodwsei. Ginetai kati se enan xwro, o opoios einai kainoyrgios. H kaqe xwra poy exei efarmosei tetoia nomosxedia, exei tis idiaiterothtes ths oson afora toys polites ths poy zoyn sto ejwteriko.

Emeis pisteyoyme apo th dikh mas th pleyra, oti ayth h ryqmish thn opoia epilegoyme kai fernoyme pros chfish sth Boylh, einai -opws sas eipa- h pio wfelimh, h pio prosforh, etsi wste kai oi Ellhnes omogeneis na mporoyn na ekfrazoyn thn apoch toys gia to pws qa kybernhqei h xwra, apo thn opoia proerxontai, ston topo opoy pragmatika zoyn.

GKATSIOS: To apotelesma twn eyrweklogwn qa apotelesei prokrima gia tyxon prowrh prosfygh stis kalpes;

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei prin apo dyo akribws meres. Isxyei h apanthsh moy.

MANH: Mia dieykrinistikh se ayto poy apanthsate prin gia toys omogeneis. Ej oswn gnwrizw to syllogiko organo twn omogenwn, to SAE, exei zhthsei epimonws, edw kai tria xronia, opote prwtodiatypwqhke h protash apo ton Prwqypoyrgo, thn yparjh jexwristwn eklogikwn perifereiwn, stis opoies qa kateyqynetai h chfos toys. Ayth thn protash toy SAE exei yioqethsei h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh kai thn probalei. Se ayth thn periptwsh, loipon, yparxei periqwrio kapoias tropopoihsews toy nomosxedioy;

ANTWNAROS: Emeis exoyme allh apoch.

MANH: Epeidh milhsate prin gia steira arnhsh ths antipoliteyshs kai dh ths ajiwmatikhs, to PASOK omws epikaleitai thn pagia qesh toy SAE.

ANTWNAROS: Den einai apolytws etsi. Exete dikio oson afora tis perifereies. Emeis exoyme allh apoch. Sas eipa oti eisagoyme mia allh apoch poy pisteyoyme oti einai pio antiproswpeytikh, pio symbath me thn ellhnikh pragmatikothta kai me ton tropo, me ton opoio exoyn symperiferqei mexri twra oi Ellhnes omogeneis poy chfizoyn stis ellhnikes ekloges.

MANH: Se ayta ta tria xronia, k. Ekproswpe, poy ginetai h diaboyleysh kai me to SAE exei ejasfalistei to nai toys, h synainesh toys se ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka ep` aytoy. H syzhthsh den mporei na einai atermwn.

MANH: Oxi, lew an to apodexqhkan. Thn chfo sto chfodeltio Epikrateias, to apodexqhke o SAE;

ANTWNAROS: Opws gnwrizete h chfoforia ginetai sth Boylh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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