Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-02-11

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 11 Febroyarioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 185414556

Ekdosh 1

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O KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 11 Febroyarioy 2009

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Kalhmera.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

FANIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, yparxei mia diafainomenh prwtofanhs krish poy apeilei to Eqniko Systhma Ygeias. Oloi, giatroi, promhqeytes balloyn enantion ths kybernhshs gia th ryqmish twn terastiwn xrewn kai ths syllogikhs symbashs ergasias. Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn topoqethqei epaneilhmmenws, oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi. Gnwrizete oti ayth th stigmh ginetai syzhthsh. Sas parapempw, loipon, stis ypeyqynes topoqethseis poy ginontai sth Boylh.

KAKALHS: Pws sxoliazete th fhmologia twn teleytaiwn wrwn, oti ayrio o Prwqypoyrgos, sthn pro hmerhsias diatajhs syzhthshs sth Boylh, qa jekaqarisei to qema twn eklogwn, pragma poy den exei kanei mexri twra;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei topoqethqei me apolyth safhneia sto qema. Opws jerete, den sxoliazw fantasioplhkta senaria.

KAKALHS: Se kaqe periptwsh, den nomizete oti o Prwqypoyrgos prepei na jekaqarisei o idios proswpika kai na desmeytei oti den qa pame gia ekloges;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme topoqethqei me apolyth safhneia.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Para to gegonos oti lete oti exete topoqethqei me apolyth safhneia sto qema twn eklogwn, einai ajioperiergo to gegonos oti molis xqes ferate sth Boylh to nomosxedio gia thn chfo twn omogenwn. Pws synadoyn ayta ta pragmata; Pws ginetai;

ANTWNAROS: Stis idies akribws erwthseis exw apanthsei apo xqes.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Mporeite na moy apanthsete kai shmera, sas parakalw, giati einai pio epikairh, epeidh yparxoyn ta senaria poy rwthse o k. Kakalhs;

ANTWNAROS: Den allazei oyte ena giwta, oyte mia teleia se osa eipa xqes.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pws einai dynaton na eyhmerei h oikonomia mas, th stigmh poy oi Bryjelles mas qetoyn ena asfyktiko plaisio dyo etwn, enw emeis zhtame kai enan epipleon xrono;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eyxaristw poly, giati moy dinete, gia mia akomh fora, thn eykairia na anaferqw sth dieqnh oikonomikh krish, h opoia plhttei olo ton kosmo, fysika thn Eyrwph, fysika tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai fysika tis xwres ths eyrwzwnhs sthn opoia anhkei kai h Ellada. Kai exei synepeies kai gia th xwra mas. Einai kati to opoio oydepote exoyme arnhqei. Eimaste oi prwtoi, allwste, poy anaferqhkame leptomereiaka se ayth th dieqnh krish, otan alloi, eite giati den thn eblepan, eite giati hqelan na mhn th blepoyn gia diko toys politiko kairoskopismo, ekanan oti den yphrxe tipote ston kosmo. H krish ayth, opws sas exw pei kai alles fores - -kai akoysate kai xqes osoi parakoloyqhsate tis topoqethseis toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy k. Giannh Papaqanasioy- - brisketai se ejelijh. Brisketai se ejelijh me gorgoys ryqmoys, me kateyqynseis oi opoies den einai tis perissoteres fores kan eydiakrites. Kai einai aparaithto oi xwres na kanoyn tis aparaithtes prosarmoges sta kainoyrgia dedomena poy prokyptoyn kaqe fora. Ayto, to kanoyn oles oi xwres ths Eyrwphs kai gi` ayto, opws qa jerete, exei sygklhqei gia to telos toy mhnos - -den exei anakoinwqei epishma, den exei epibebaiwqei h hmeromhnia- - Synodos Koryfhs twn xwrwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, me qema thn oikonomia. Gia mia akomh fora, oi hgetes twn eyrwpaikwn xwrwn, metajy twn opoiwn qa einai bebaiws kai o Kwstas Karamanlhs, o Prwqypoyrgos ths Elladas, qa synanthqoyn, prokeimenoy na syzhthsoyn ayth thn ejelijh. Emeis, kanoyme ekeino to opoio prepei na kanei kaqe kybernhsh, opws h dikh mas, poy me swfrosynh kai politikh ypeyqynothta - -ypeyqynothta apenanti stoys polites kai to koinwniko synolo- - parakoloyqei apo konta thn krish, prosarmozei tis politikes ths kai pairnei ekeines tis prwtoboylies poy einai aparaithtes, wste oi synepeies ths krishs poy asfalws yparxoyn kai gia th xwra mas, na amblynqoyn, na einai oso to dynaton mikroteres. Mesa se ola ayta ta plaisia, loipon, yparxei synexhs diaboyleysh, synexhs antallagh apocewn anamesa sthn Ellada afenos kai sthn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph kai stoys etairoys mas afeteroy. Ayth th diaboyleysh, ayth thn antallagh stoixeiwn, thn kanoyn oles oi xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai kyriws ths eyrwzwnhs. Gnwrizete tis topoqethseis toy k. Papaqanasioy. Emeis pisteyoyme, fer` eipein, oti h anaptyjh qa einai kata to trexon etos sto pososto 1,1%. H Epitroph isxyrizetai oti qa einai 0,2%. Pali h Ellada einai mia apo tis poly liges xwres, estw kai me thn pio apaisiodojh problech ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs poy qa exei qetikh anaptyjh, enw oi perissoteres xwres ths Eyrwphs - -kai kyriws oi megales xwres ths Eyrwphs, me anamfibola pio dynath oikonomia apo emas- - qa exoyn arnhtikh anaptyjh. Synepws, panw se ayth thn troxia thn opoia emeis xarajame, qa kinhqoyme. Me apofasistikothta kai me thn isxyrh boylhsh na pragmatopoihsoyme kai na efarmosoyme to epikairopoihmeno programma, opws anakoinwqhke thn perasmenh ebdomada kai na laboyme ypoch tis anagkes poy yparxoyn gia thn koinwnikh isorropia, gia thn koinwnikh galhnh ston topo. Ayto shmainei ena aplo pragma: Oles mas oi prospaqeies strefontai pros oloys toys Ellhnes polites, kyriws omws pros ekeinoys poy exoyn kai th megalyterh anagkh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, oi plhrofories oles kai oi ektimhseis poy yparxoyn apo tis Bryjelles, lene oti h ypagwgh ths xwras mas se kaqestws epithrhshs, einai dedomenh. Prin apo dyo mhnes, o k. Kakalhs sygkekrimena, sas eixe kanei mia erwthsh, an alhqeyoyn ta senaria oti h xwra mas qa mpei ypo kaqestws epithrhshs. Kai tote, oxi mono to eixate diaceysei, hsastan labros enantion twn senariwn ta opoia, en pash periptwsei, elegonto. Egw den katalabainw to ejhs: Mesa se dyo mhnes allaje toso poly h katastash poy jafnika h xwra mas mpainei ypo kaqestws epithrhshs, enw tote den yphrxe tipote kai htan apla senaria;

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, milate asfalws gia th diadikasia toy yperbolikoy elleimmatos. Einai mia diadikasia h opoia brisketai synexws se ejelijh. Oles oi xwres, oi opoies einai melh ths eyrwzwnhs, einai katw apo enan, an qelete, megeqyntiko fako. Deyteron, epeidh exete toso kalh mnhmh, asfalws qa qymaste oti prin apo ligotero apo dyo mhnes, h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph - -oxi h Ellada- - elege stis epishmes probleceis ths, oti h anaptyjh gia thn Ellada qa htan gyrw sto 2,5%. Twra leei oti qa einai 0,2%. Einai synepws anagkaia h prosarmogh. Ayto ti shmainei; Shmainei oti akribws oi ejelijeis, oxi mono sthn Eyrwph, se oloklhro ton kosmo, fysika kai sthn Ellada, ginontai me taxytato ryqmo. Taxytato ryqmo poy akomh kai oi taxeis ryqmoi twn dhmosiografwn fainetai oti dyskoleyontai na ton parakoloyqhsoyn. Alla qa sas proskalesw, gia mia akomh fora, na diabasete ligo ta dieqnh Mesa Enhmerwshs, na parakoloyqhsete ligo tis thleoraseis kai allwn xwrwn. Oloi sas edw, doja tw Qew - -kai to lew me apolyth sobarothta- - kai jenes glwsses milate kai thn eyxereia exete na to kanete. Qa deite oti ayta ola katagrafontai ws ejelijeis kai sta Mesa twn xwrwn poy einai oi etairoi mas sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Kai ginetai kai ekei h idia syzhthsh, dioti akribws, h krish einai tetoias morfhs. Einai h xeiroterh krish, lene orismenoi, twn 80 teleytaiwn etwn, dioti th sygkrinoyn me thn oikonomikh krish toy Mesopolemoy. Yparxoyn omws kai alloi poy lene oti einai h xeiroterh krish poy syneidhta exei zhsei h anqrwpothta. H krish einai tetoia poy jepernaei tis probleceis. Kai ayto poy perimenei kapoios, ayto poy prepei na perimenoyn oi polites apo osoys exoyn thn eyqynh na askoyn thn politikh ejoysia se kaqe xwra, einai na antapokrinontai se ayto to aithma ths prosarmoghs, ths lhchs ekeinwn twn prwtoboyliwn poy xreiazontai gia thn antimetwpish twn kainoyrgiwn problhmatwn poy kaqe mera prokyptoyn.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Sygnwmh, alla exw thn aisqhsh oti sas jepernoyn ta gegonota. Giati, mexri proxqes, to epixeirhma ths kybernhshs htan oti h Ellada den brisketai se yfesh kai oti nai men, yparxei dieqnws h oikonomikh krish ktl, alla h Ellada einai apo tis xwres poy kratane ktl. Mexri thn perasmenh ebdomada, h k. Petralia, se thleoptiko ``patzoyri'', ayto eixe ws epixeirhma.

ANTWNAROS: Ma, ayto akribws sas eipa kai egw.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kai jafnika erxosaste kai epikaleiste thn krish, poy fainetai kai th blepoyme kai den xreiazetai na th diabazoyme, thn akoyme kaqhmerina. Kai jafnika mesa se mia ebdomada jana den exete epixeirhma. Nomizw oti ta gegonota sas jepernoyn.

ANTWNAROS: Asfalws kai exw epixeirhmata. Ekeino poy sas eipa egw einai oti h Ellada einai mia apo tis elaxistes xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs poy akomh kai twra, aytes tis dyskoles stigmes poy perna h Eyrwph kai o kosmos oloklhros, basei twn kainoyrgiwn diorqwtikwn - -pros to xeirotero- - allagwn, problecewn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, qa exei qetikh anaptyjh. Ayto den allazei. Alla enw htan 2,5% twra einai 0,2%, leei h Epitroph. Emeis leme 1,1%. Ayto qa fanei sthn prajh. Jerete oti oi dieqneis organismoi exoyn panta mia tash - -ayto exei fanei kai sto parelqon - - na kanoyn probleceis poy einai pio apaisiodojes. Sebasto, alla, den to apodexomaste. Ekeino, loipon, to opoio metraei, einai: Akribws, mesa se ayth thn krish, na pairnoyme tis prwtoboylies poy xreiazetai kaqe fora, kaqe ebdomada an xreiastei, kaqe mhna, prokeimenoy na ginontai oi anagkaies prosarmoges. Opoios einai akamptos, opoios einai statikos, opoios den blepei ti akribws symbainei, xanei to dromo.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, fantazomai omws oti qa symfwnhsete mazi moy, sto gegonos oti ayth th stigmh, toylaxiston mexri twra, h krish sthn Ellada periorizetai se ena epipedo elleichs reystothtas, kyriws twn mikromesaiwn epixeirhsewn, kai h pragmatikh krish akomh se emas den exei fqasei. Eimaste sthn prwth fash, isws, ap` oti lene oloi. To gegonos, omws, oti h kybernhsh exei dwsei ayto to paketo enisxyshs reystothtas twn 28 dis kai ayto akomh den exei fqasei ekei poy qa eprepe na exei fqasei, den dhmioyrgei ena epipleon problhma;

ANTWNAROS: Eipa kai proxqes, th Deytera, an den kanw laqos, edw s` ayth thn aiqoysa, oti to megalytero meros aytoy toy posoy twn 28 disekatommyriwn, afora se eggyhseis toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy...

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: (Den akoygetai)

ANTWNAROS: Ma, bebaiws. Ayto, loipon, arxise na leitoyrgei prin apo deka hmeres. Kai epeidh prin apo ligo kairo, poly liges hmeres, akoygotan megalh kritikh fer` eipein, gia to qema toy TEMPME, o k. Xatzhdakhs se xqesines toy dhlwseis, edwse ta noymera.

TSIOYFOS: Posoi einai;

KAKALHS: Exoyn ikanopoihqei 5.000 peripoy.

ANTWNAROS: Panw apo pente xiliades exoyn ikanopoihqei, se poly syntomo xroniko diasthma kai oxi merikes ekatontades poy kapoioi elegan oti eixan egkriqei.

KAKALHS: Oi aithseis poses einai;

ANTWNAROS: Qa to koitajw kai qa sas pw. Pantws einai poly megalo to pososto. Ean den kanw laqos to 20% h to 25%, an qymamai kala, exei hdh ikanopoihqei. Ti qelw na pw; Oti ayto einai ena programma to opoio brisketai se ejelijh. Den ginetai apo th mia stigmh sthn allh. To lew gia mia akomh fora: Einai qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn olh thn Eyrwph. As mh stroyqokamhlizoyme. Mh nomizoyme oti einai mono qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn thn Ellada. H kaqe xwra ta antimetwpizei, mesa se ena geniko plaisio to opoio symfwneitai, me dikes ths prwtoboylies kai dikes ths proteraiothtes. Kai ayto ginetai kai sthn Ellada. Alla as mhn jexname oti sthn Ellada exoyme epiprosqeta ena terastio dhmosio xreos, to opoio mas afhse pisw to kybernhtiko parelqon toy PASOK.

TSIOYFOS: Moy epitrepete; H kybernhsh den prepei na piesei me kapoio tropo tis trapezes na arxisoyn na ``jekleidwnoyn'' ligo toys oroys kai tis proypoqeseis, na ginoyn ligo pio elastikes apenanti sth xrhmatodothsh twn etaireiwn; Pote qa ginei ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Ayto ginetai, hdh, me tropoys stoys opoioys exw anaferqei.

FOYRLHS: H kybernhsh symmerizetai thn anagkh poy diapistwnei epaneilhmmenws h KOMISION gia th diafylajh ths dhmosionomikhs staqerothtas me enan apo toys stoxoys, anamesa stoys polloys, kai th sthrijh toy eyrw toy koinoy mas nomismatos;

ANTWNAROS: Ma, apoteloyme meros toy eyrw. H Ellada einai meros toy systhmatos ths eyrwzwnhs. Den to amfisbhtoyme, den to amfisbhtei kaneis. Alla sas exoyme pei poies proteraiothtes qetoyme: Anaptyjh, diafylajh twn qesewn ergasias. Bebaiws, stadiakh dhmosionomikh prosarmogh. Kai ola ayta, me thn epiballomenh koinwnikh eyaisqhsia.

KAKALHS: Gia na epanelqw sto prohgoymeno qema. Oi trapezes me epishmo tropo, opws qa eidate xqes, epanhlqan kai epimenoyn na dioxeteyqei ena meros toy paketoy twn 28 dis gia tis qygatrikes toys pros ta Balkania legontas oti einai strathgikhs shmasias h paroysia twn ellhnikwn trapezwn sta Balkania kai h mh sthrijh toys qa apobei se baros ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai epixeirhmatikothtas, opws anaferetai xarakthristika sthn anakoinwsh. H kybernhsh epimenei akoma oti den qa dioxeteyqei;

ANTWNAROS: Menw sthn topoqethsh ths kybernhshs kai menw, epishs, sth dhmosia topoqethsh ths Trapezas ths Ellados, h opoia egine dia toy dioikhth ths.

KAKALHS: Den mporeite, omws, na apotrecete na dioxeteyqei ayto to paketo. Exete to (den akoygetai) na to diasfalisete;

ANTWNAROS: Yparxoyn elegktikes dynatothtes.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Me bash thn epixeirhmatologia poy anaptyjate mexri twra, h kybernhsh krinei ws epityxhmenh thn apostolh, entos h ektos eisagwgikwn, stis Bryjelles se sxesh me to stoxo ton opoio phge na petyxei;

ANTWNAROS: Den katalabainw ton tropo me ton opoio qetete to erwthma. Bebaiws einai dikaiwma sas na qetete thn erwthsh opws qelete.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Krinete oti o k. Ypoyrgos petyxe;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Papaqanasioy phge, opws exei ypoxrewsh o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, na metasxei stis Synodoys ths Eyrwzwnhs kai toy EKOFIN.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Kati zhthse, omws.

ANTWNAROS: Syzhthqhke h dieqnhs oikonomikh krish kai to epikairopoihmeno programma ths Elladas. O k. Papaqanasioy eyglwtta, jekaqara, me epixeirhmata, paroysiase ton tropo me ton opoio emeis proseggizoyme ta problhmata poy exoyn prokycei. Aytos einai o logos gia ton opoio breqhke o k. Papaqanasioy ekei. Dioti, opws sas exw pei, yparxei synexhs diaboyleysh me toys alloys Eyrwpaioys etairoys mas. Eimaste kai emeis enas apo aytoys. Briskomaste se synexh syzhthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh pera apo th dieqnh krish, pera apo ta problhmata poy yparxoyn logw ths dieqnoys krishs, mhpws telika olh ayth h istoria twn allepallhlwn diapragmateysewn gia to zhthma ths epithrhshs h tis diadikasies toy elleimmatos, opws lete eseis, apotelei kakh klhronomia twn prohgoymenwn tessarwn-pente xronwn ths oikonomikhs politikhs poy akoloyqhqhke epi Neas Dhmokratias;

ANTWNAROS: An den eixe efarmostei ta teleytaia xronia h politikh h opoia efarmosthke, oyte to elleimma qa eixe meiwqei apo to 7,5% sta epipeda poy einai twra, sto miso apo ekeina ta ych, oyte h anergia qa eixe meiwqei apo to 11% kai kati katw apo to 8% poy htan to teleytaio trimhno toy perasmenoy xronoy, oyte h oikonomia qa eixe apokthsei aytes tis antoxes tis opoies exei. Ayta einai sygkekrimena megeqh ta opoia exoyn katagrafei apo th Statistikh Yphresia ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai einai pera apo opoiadhpote amfisbhthsh.

ZORMPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kaqoson antilambanomai o diorismos twn Epitropwn sta dioikhtika symboylia twn trapezwn apotelei kombiko shmeio gia thn emprakth pragmatwsh toy sxedioy reystothtas, swsta;

ANTWNAROS: Yparxoyn diafora stadia, opws gnwrizete. Qelw pw to ejhs: Yparxoyn diafora stadia mesa sta opoia ektylissetai olh ayth h prwtoboylia. Kai bebaiws, fqanoyme sto diorismo, ston orismo twn Epitropwn ths ellhnikhs Politeias stis trapezes, oi opoioi metexoyn se ayto to sxedio. Oi Epitropoi aytoi, gia opoion diabasei ta edafia ths sxetikhs nomoqesias, exoyn sygkekrimenh apostolh.

ZORMPA: An moy epitrepete, omws, h erwthsh einai oti moiazei na kwlysiergei ayth h diadikasia.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, kaqoloy.

ZORMPA: Exoyn xrono poy qa topoqethqoyn, mexri pote, xroniko orizonta;

ANTWNAROS: Den eimai etoimos na sas pw, alla nomizw oti den argei.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Afoy ayta ta tessera xronia eixan ginei ola ayta ta qaymasta, ta eixe kanei enas sygkekrimenos anqrwpos, o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Tote, giati efyge apo thn kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Ta exoyme apanthsei ola ayta. Gyrnate sto idio qema.

DHMADHS: To kaqestws ths hpias dhmosionomikhs epithrhshs h alliws toy oikonomikoy elleimmatos, opws to onomazete eseis kai to apokaleite, oysiastika ejakoloyqei na enisxyei toys isxyrismoys ths kybernhshs, toys dikoys sas isxyrismoys, oti h ellhnikh oikonomia einai qwrakismenh apenanti sthn krish;

ANTWNAROS: Qa epanalabw ayto to opoio eipa kai pro oligoy: Anaferqhka se sygkekrimena eynoika stoixeia, ta opoia proekycan ta teleytaia tesseramisi, pente xronia, afotoy h Nea Dhmokratia anelabe thn eyqynh ths diakybernhshs ths xwras, to Martio toy 2004. Egw pote den isxyristhka kai oyte prokeitai na to isxyristw - -kaneis den to exei kanei- - oti ola sth xwra mas einai teleia. Yparxoyn, asfalws, polla akomh poy prepei na ginoyn kai yparxoyn kai polla pragmata ta opoia ginontai. To exei pei kai o Prwqypoyrgos, to epanalambanw kai egw. Den sas lew kati to kainoyrgio. Parola tayta, ean ayta den eixan ginei kai den eixan proxwrhsei kai den eixame ta sygkekrimena apta, xeiropiasta apotelesmata, h katastash qa htan poly xeiroterh. Edw blepoyme xwres me poly isxyres oikonomies na mhn mporoyn na elegjoyn tis synepeies, toys klydwnismoys ayths ths krishs. Molis xqes, mia megalh dytikoeyrwpaikh xwra apofasise, meta apo polles bohqeies poy eixe dwsei, na dwsei mia epipleon bohqeia se enan, gia ekeinh, shmantiko tomea ths biomhxanias ths. Ginontai syzhthseis synexws. Shmasia exei oti eimaste ekei me toys etairoys mas, antallassoyme apoceis, leme thn alhqeia ston ellhniko lao acegadiasta, xwris kamia wraiopoihsh, prokeimenoy oloi na gnwrizoyn kai na katalabainoyn ti symbainei akribws se olo ton kosmo, me synepeies fysika kai sth xwra mas.

TSIOYFOS: Hqela na sas rwthsw to ejhs: Xqes, diabasa kapoies dhlwseis toy prwhn Yfypoyrgoy k. Doyka, o opoios erwthqeis ean qa einai kai pali ypochfios logw ths emplokhs toy sthn ypoqesh toy Batopaidioy, eipe ``800% qa eimai ypochfios, teleia kai payla''. Mhpws espeyse na prokatalabei tis apofaseis toy kommatos, toy Prwqypoyrgoy k.t.l., se o,ti afora th sygkrothsh twn chfodeltiwn;

ANTWNAROS: Gia to qema ayto kai ola ta synafh, exw topoqethqei apo proxqes.

TSIOYFOS: Den einai to idio. Me sygxwreite.

ANTWNAROS: Kai sas apanthsa: Gia to qema ayto kai ola ta synafh, exw topoqethqei apo proxqes.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Ma, ayto einai kati kainoyrgio. Me sygxwreite, k. Ekproswpe, einai kati kainoyrgio ayto poy sas leei.

ANTWNAROS: Kata th dikh sas ektimhsh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Loipon, para to gegonos oti eseis dyo hmeres kleinete, opws eseis qewreite oti kleinete, to qema gia to chfodeltio sto ypoloipo Attikhs, o k. Doykas xqes epanerxetai me dhlwseis toy kai leei ``800% qa eimai ypochfios''. Ayto, einai mia kainoyrgia ejelijh. Sas apantaei, qelw na sas pw. Qelete na apanthsete kai eseis se emas, toylaxiston;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa exw pei.

FANIDHS: Wraia. Sto idio qema, an kai riskarw twra, telos pantwn. Yparxei entonh parapolitikh filologia gia thn opoia, epitrecte moy, eyqyneste kai eseis. Giati den dieykrinizete ean o k. Doykas exei dikio poy to leei ayto h an o k. Roysopoylos qa einai telika ypochfios. Giati den mas lete ``nai'' h ``oxi'';

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Egw akoysa ston ``Aqhna 9,84'' ton k. Tsitoyridh na leei ``na mas bohqhsei o Qeos na mhn pame se ekloges twra''. Egw qelw na qesw to erwthma alliws. Afoy h kybernhsh doyleyei kai paragei ergo gia to opoio qa kriqei opote kai an ginoyn ekloges, oloi oi boyleytes poy mpainoyn se ayth thn koybenta, giati exoyn ayto to agxos na mpoyn; Dhladh, den enoxlei thn kybernhsh olh ayth h syzhthsh, h opoia den ofeiletai mono se emas toys dhmosiografoys. Ama den mas miloysan...

ANTWNAROS: Moy zhtate, emmesws plhn safws, na sxoliasw topoqethseis boyleytwn, kati to opoio den qa kanw oyte ayth th fora.

XIWTHS: Qelw kai egw na kanw mia erwthsh sthn opoia ektimw oti den exete apanthsei tis dyo prohgoymenes hmeres, opoy diabasa poly prosektika tis apanthseis sas. Anejarthtws toy xronoy twn eklogwn, yparxoyn plhrofories poy katagrafontai sto synolo twn efhmeridwn shmera, poy anaferoyn oti ta stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias poy exoyn emplakei sthn ypoqesh toy Batopaidioy den qa einai jana ypochfioi, me apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Sas erwtw, loipon, an eystaqoyn h oxi aytes oi plhrofories.

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei.

DHMADHS: Egw qa hqela na rwthsw, mhpws ta stelexh ths kybernhshs kai ths Neas Dhmokratias genikotera ligo protrexoyn; Kai to rwtw ayto, me thn ennoia oti afenos prin apo ton anasxhmatismo polloi ypoyrgoi eixan speysei na dieykrinisoyn thn epiqymia toys na metakinhqoyn h na parameinoyn sto idio Ypoyrgeio kai twra blepoyme para polloys boyleytes na proejofloyn to gegonos oti qa einai sta chfodeltia h na proejofloyn to gegonos oti qa symperilhfqoyn sth lista twn eklogwn ths Neas Dhmokratias. Eseis ola ayta, pws ta blepete kai kata poson pisteyete oti einai qesmika swsta sto plaisio enos organwmenoy kommatos;

ANTWNAROS: Exw topoqethqei. Den exw na prosqesw kati perissotero.

STAQOPOYLOS: H eklogologia k. Ekproswpe, apo opoy kai an proerxetai, blaptei thn oikonomia;

ANTWNAROS: Thn kybernhsh ekeino poy thn endiaferei einai ena, to exw pei: Eimaste proshlwmenoi sto ergo mas, sthn ylopoihsh twn desmeysewn mas, olo ayto to diasthma. Poly perissotero twra poy oi synqhkes exoyn idiaitero xarakthra logw ths dieqnoys oikonomikhs krishs. Ayto metraei gi` emas. Ayto einai to melhma mas. Ayth einai h proteraiothta poy exoyme.

XIWTHS: Symfwna me shmerina dhmosieymata efhmeridwn, dyo stenoi synergates toy Proedroy twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn qa episkefqoyn, thn erxomenh ebdomada, thn Aqhna. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, an exete gnwsh an exoyn programmatistei oi epafes eite me to Grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy, eite me ton Prwqypoyrgo, eite me alla stelexh ths kybernhshs.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw sygkekrimenes plhrofories ayth th stigmh. Qa frontisw na enhmerwqw kai ean yparxei kati, na sas enhmerwsw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, para tis ekklhseis poy polles fores apeyqynete, kai eseis proswpika apo ayto to bhma, alla kai tis ekklhseis allwn Ypoyrgwn na pacei h eklogologia, anarwtiemai giati epanerxontai tote ta stelexh kai oi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias kai apo radiofwno se radiofwno anaferontai sto endexomeno eklogwn, tis jorkizoyn, alloi tis prodikazoyn, alloi tis proejofloyn;

ANTWNAROS: Den eimai to katallhlo proswpo gia na apeyqynete tetoies apories.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, den einai qema aporias. 'H den kanei kati swsta h kybernhsh gia na pacei ayth h eswstrefeia kai ayth h eklogologia h mallon kati parapanw jeroyn oi boyleytes, kati parapanw exoyn ypociastei.

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Den yparxei mono to qema ths eklogologias. Jafnika exei prokycei kai qema me ton k. Karamanlh, me ton Prwqypoyrgo. Dhladh ta teleytaia 24wra eidame ton k. Manwlh na leei ayta poy eipe gia thn k. Mpakogiannh, ton k. Giakoymato na leei -- en pash periptwsei, twra den einai qema na sas to pw giati qa moy peite oti den to eipa akribws -- ``den mporoyme na akyrwsoyme ton k. Karamanlh, alla kaqe pragma ston kairo toy kai o kolios ton Aygoysto''. Yparxei kai tetoio qema arxhgoy ths Neas Dhmokratias;

ANTWNAROS: Koitajte, egw den eimai ekproswpos toy kommatos ths Neas Dhmokratias, alla h Nea Dhmokratia, opws gnwrizete, exei Proedro kai h kybernhsh exei Prwqypoyrgo.

DHMADHS: Se mia, pro hmerhsias diatajews, syzhthsh sth Boylh to 2007 o k. Papandreoy eixe zhthsei apo ton Prwqypoyrgo kai pali, ton k. Karamanlh, na paei se prowres ekloges. Tote, opws oloi qymomaste, o k. Prwqypoyrgos eixe kanei xarakthristika mia dhlwsh oti ``ta aithmata eniote ginontai kai apodekta''. Hqela na rwthsw ep' aformh kai ths neas ekklhshs toy k. Papandreoy gia prowres ekloges mexri to kalokairi, katarxhn an isxyei ayth h topoqethsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, idia kai aparallakth, opws thn eixe ekfrasei sto prohgoymeno aithma toy k. Papandreoy. Kai nomizw oti qa perioristw sto erwthma ayto.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh apanthse, thn perasmenh Pempth, sto sxetiko aithma toy k. Papandreoy, di emoy.

DHMADHS: Dia toy k. Karamanlh den krinei skopimo na apanthsei opws eixe kanei to 2007;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa. Apanthse di emoy.

GKATSIOS: Erwthqhkate apo ton synadelfo, ton k. Staqopoylo, an h eklogologia blaptei thn oikonomia. Eipate oti h kybernhsh einai proshlwmenh sto ergo ths. Qewreite oti einai kai to synolo ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas ths Neas Dhmokratias proshlwmeno se ayth thn kateyqynsh h lojokoitane orismenoi;

ANTWNAROS: Eimai apolyta sigoyros oti -- to eipa kai xqes to epanalambanw kai shmera-- h Koinoboyleytikh Omada ths Neas Dhmokratias einai sympaghs. Kai ayto fainetai sthn prajh.

GKATSIOS: Eyxaristw.

XIWTHS: Sthn prohgoymenh apanthsh hqela na pw, ektos apo thn apanthsh poy dwsate eseis ston k. Papandreoy sto aithma toy gia ekloges, aphnthse kai o k. Karamanlhs me thn thleoptikh dhlwsh poy ekane, sthn opoia anefere metajy allwn oti gia na efarmosei thn oikonomikh politikh kai na antapejelqei h kybernhsh sthn dieqnh krish, apaiteitai kai hremo koinwniko periballon. Eipe xarakthristika o k. Karamanlhs oti ``an synexistoyn entona apergiaka aithmata, entones kinhtopoihseis kai epiqetikes taseis apenanti sthn kybernhsh, tote den mporei na kybernhsei''. Ayto den einai...

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti, epeidh gnwrizw pws leitoyrgei h kybernhsh, sth sygkekrimenh diatypwsh toy k. Papandreoy, apanthsa egw ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. O k. Karamanlhs apanthse stis polwtikes prospaqeies tis opoies kataballoyn synexeia o arxhgos toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, o k. Papandreoy kai h hgetikh toy omada. Einai mia prospaqeia thn opoia kanoyn prokeimenoy na dhmioyrghsoyn texnhth entash kai den ta katafernoyn. Emeis den prokeitai na toys akoloyqhsoyme. Ayto poy eipe o k. Karamanlhs einai to aytonohto: Mia xwra, eidika ayth th stigmh, eidika ayth th periodo, xreiazetai bebaiws, mia sxetikh koinwnikh eirhnh. Ayto den shmainei oti oi polites den prepei na diekdikoyn osa qeloyn na diekdikhsoyn. Alla ayto den mporei na ginetai me tropo poy oi diekdikhseis mikrwn omadwn diatarassoyn th zwh toy koinwnikoy synoloy, th leitoyrgia oloklhrwn polewn. H opws egine kai me ta trakter -- to lew eyqews -- thn eleyqerh sygkoinwnia, thn eleyqerh metafora emporeymatwn, thn eleyqerh metabash anqrwpwn apo th mia meria ths xwras sthn allh.

XIWTHS: Antilambanomai apo thn apanthsh poy dinete, oti o Prwqypoyrgos xrewnei prospaqeia polwshs sthn ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh kai taytoxrona diatarajh ths ergasiakhs eirhnhs se kapoies koinwnikes omades. Apo ayto antilambanomai oti h kybernhsh qewrei oti h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh ypokinei kapoies koinwnikes omades.

ANTWNAROS: Den qa pw kati allo pera apo ayto poy eipa. Asfalws to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs prospaqei na kallierghsei texnhta, egw pisteyw xwris epityxia, ena klima entashs kai polwshs, gia kaqara mikrokommatikoys logoys. Den einai kati to opoio lew gia prwth fora. To exw pei, nomizw, ews kai deka fores se graptes dhlwseis poy exw kanei.

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Kai ti symbainei k. Ekproswpe kai den peiqetai o kosmos, h koinwnia oti akoma kai an htan diaforetikh h kybernhsh, diaforetikh h politikh katastash se epipedo isorropiwn sth xwra, h akoloyqoymenh politikh qa htan idia giati einai monodromos, giati ayto prepei na kanoyme klp. kai erxetai twra h antipoliteysh kai leei oti an hmoyn egw qa ta eixa kanei kalytera.

ANTWNAROS: To oti den peiqetai o kosmos, apo poy to synagete;

BASILAKOPOYLOS: Giati blepw tis dhmoskophseis.

ANTWNAROS: Den sxoliazw dhmoskophseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epanalambanete sxedon monotona oti h Koinoboyleytikh Omada ths Neas Dhmokratias einai sympaghs. Kai dinete idiaiterh emfash sth lejh sympaghs. Moy ekane entypwsh omws, tote pws einai dynaton oi boyleytes na epanerxontai sxedon se kaqhmerinh bash kai na balloyn allhlois; Dhladh gia paradeigma na pw, xqes as poyme me aformh tis dhlwseis toy boyleyth ths Neas Dhmokratias, k. Manwlh, gia thn diadoxologia, eipate oti h Koinoboyleytikh Omada einai sympaghs. O k. Manwlhs omws epanerxetai, epeidh profanws qewrei oti einai ontws sympaghs h Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai ballei ek neoy enantion ths k. Mpakogiannh. Kai anarwtiemai pws einai dynaton na einai sympaghs kai taytoxrona o enas na ballei enantion toy alloy.

ANTWNAROS: Opws gnwrizete den topoqetoymai se dhlwseis boyleytwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia epiqeseis milaw. Den milaw gia dhlwseis.

ANTWNAROS: Gia to qema toy k. Manwlh an eimai kala plhroforhmenos, yparxei mia topoqethsh toy Grammatea ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas ths Neas Dhmokratias, k. Tragakh, h opoia kai me briskei symfwno.

DHMADHS: Gia na epanelqw sto erwthma toy synadelfoy, toy k. Xiwth, qa hqela na sas rwthsw an telika to PASOK, pisteyete, oti epidiwkei thn koinwnikh kai oikonomikh apostaqeropoihsh ths xwras.

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka, den exw na pw kati allo panw se ayto.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, an qymamai kala, h apanthsh sas sto aithma toy Proedroy toy PASOK gia prokhryjh eklogwn htan oti den qa akoloyqhsete to PASOK stis prospaqeies eklogologias. Jerete, to na apantate peri eklogologias einai kati diaforetiko apo to na peite oti gia mas den tiqetai qema eklogwn. Einai teleiws diaforetiko to na apantate peri eklogologias kai peri eklogwn. Epeidh eiste apo toys anqrwpoys poy prosexoyn tis diatypwseis toys, qelw mia pio kaqarh apanthsh.

ANTWNAROS: Akribws, epeidh prosexw tis diatypwseis moy, menw se ayto poy eipa prin apo mia ebdomada.

FOYRLHS: Protiqetai o Prwqypoyrgos na analabei kapoia prwtoboylia gia na ginei sympagesterh h Koinoboyleytikh Omada h th qewrei eparkws sympagh ayth th stigmh;

ANTWNAROS: O,ti eixa na pw gia ayto to qema, to eipa.

KAKALHS: An katalaba kala apo thn prohgoymenh anafora sas gia tis diekdikhseis twn koinwnikwn omadwn, h kybernhsh protiqetai na amfisbhthsei to dikaiwma twn ergazomenwn na diekdikoyn ta dikaiwmata toys, poly perissotero otan briskontai antimetwpoi me to fasma ths anergias, ths ftwxias kai ths peinas. Oi ergazomenoi dhladh den prepei na diekdikoyn; Na skycoyn to kefali kai na toys poyn kala ta kanete;

ANTWNAROS: Ayto katalabate;

KAKALHS: Ayto eipate.

ANTWNAROS: Akribws to antiqeto eipa.

KAKALHS: Ayto akribws eipate. Oti to ypertero einai h koinwnikh, den prepei na anastatwnetai h kykloforia kai ta...

ANTWNAROS: Akribws to antiqeto eipa.

KAKALHS: Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs; Giati to anaferate ayto to qema; Giati to anakinhsate;

ANTWNAROS: Akribws to antiqeto eipa. Parakalw na anatrejete sth dhlwsh moy kai qa to diapistwsete.

KAKALHS: Kai mia allh erwthsh. Eipate oti stoxos ths kybernhshs einai h diafylajh newn qesewn ergasias.

ANTWNAROS: H diafylajh twn qesewn ergasias. H qwrakish twn qesewn ergasias.

KAKALHS: Nai, me sygxwreite. H diafylajh twn qesewn ergasias, eipate. Me bash ayto pws topoqethste apenanti sthn ekqesh, sthn odhgia ths KOMISION gia proswrinh anergia xwris amoibh pros toys ergodotes prokeimenoy na mhn ginoyn apolyseis. Dhladh na yparxei, oysiastika h protash toy k. Mixaloy, tesseris meres th bdomada xwris na ginontai apolyseis.

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme topoqethqei se ola ayta ta qemata dia ths armodias Ypoyrgoy.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, ayth einai odhgia ths KOMISION.

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme topoqethqei dia ths armodias Ypoyrgoy.

MPOTSARHS: Qa episkeftei to Sabbatokyriako kapoia polh ths eparxias o Prwqypoyrgos; Akoygetai gia th Fqiwtida.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na sas anakoinwsw kati. Efoson yparjei kati tetoio, qa to plhroforhqeite.

Sas eyxaristw.

" H enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn kai twn antapokritwn jenoy Typoy den qa pragmatopoihqei, ayrio, Pempth 12 Febroyarioy, logw ths pro hmerhsias diatajews syzhthsh sth Boylh.

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