Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-10-31

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 31 Oktwbrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 103559824

Ekdosh 1

brf3110

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 31 Oktwbrioy 2007

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio stis 10.30, qa milhsei sth Boylh, sto plaisio syzhthshs pro hmerhsias diatajews, me prwtoboylia toy Proedroy ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy Synaspismoy ths Rizospastikhs Aristeras k. Alekoy Alabanoy, se epipedo arxhgwn kommatwn -opws ginontai pantote aytes oi syzhthseis- me qema ``Oikologikes politikes sthn Ellada se synqhkes fainomenoy qermokhpioy''. Ayrio, loipon, den qa exoyme briefing. Qa ananewsoyme to ranteboy mas gia thn Paraskeyh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: Yparxei sto programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy episkech ston Arxiepiskopo k. Xristodoylo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw kati tetoio, alla -opws gnwrizete- o Prwqypoyrgos exei poly syxnh epafh me ton Arxiepiskopo. Eixe milhsei polles fores mazi toy apo tis Hnwmenes Politeies. Den exw kati sygkekrimeno ayth thn wra.

PALAIOLOGOS: H deyterh erwthsh afora tis katalhceis. Telika, yparxei politikos daktylos pisw apo tis katalhceis sta sxoleia, oi opoies blepw oti diogkwnontai oloena kai perissotero;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws, ayto dierwthqhka kai arxika, me aformh th dhlwsh toy k. Stylianidh kai apanthsa. Epimenw sthn idia apanthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Blepoyme omws oti oi katalhcies den bazoyn myalo, qa to elega etsi, xaritologwntas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qelw na kanw kapoio sxolio gia toys katalhcies. Ekeino poy einai shmantiko, einai oti dystyxws akoygontai merika pragmata poy jefeygoyn apo th logikh. Akoyga shmera to prwi stis 09.30 peripoy, sto radiofwno toy ``SKAI'', epistrefontas apo thn prwinh syskech sto Zappeio, enan gonea, o opoios eipe oti ``to sxoleio mas einai kainoyrgio, jekinhse fetos na leitoyrgei, de leipei kanena biblio, de leipoyn daskaloi, kai kapoioi arxisan thn katalhch, legontas oti diafwnoyn me ton <Kapodistria 2> h me to arqro 16''. Antilambanetai kapoios, loipon, oti oloi qa prepei na sebontai ekeinoys toys maqhtes oi opoioi apoteloyn kai pleiochfia, poy qeloyn na didaxqoyn ta maqhmata toys. Prepei na sebontai to dhmokratiko dikaiwma ekeinwn oi opoioi epiqymoyn na spoydasoyn.

MPOTSARAKOS: Epeidh kai egw akoysa shmera kapoion na leei oti se ena sxoleio me 500 paidia, 14 apofasisan na kanoyn katalhch, ekleisan tis portes klp. Ara, den einai ena to fainomeno, profanws yparxoyn polla kroysmata. Peran ths ekklhshs poy apeyqynete eseis, den mporei h kybernhsh na kanei kati h ws armodia Arxh to Ypoyrgeio Paideias, dhladh, mporoyn na kleinoyn ta sxoleia; Kai den milw gia sxoleia opoy yparxei pleiochfia maqhtwn poy apofasizei tis katalhceis, alla ekei poy exoyn apofasisei kapoies meiochfies, den mporei na kanei kati h kybernhsh gi` ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh exei apofasisei kat` arxas oti de qa xaqoyn wres maqhmatwn, poy shmainei oti se prwth fash, oi wres ekdromwn kai peripatwn, opoy yparxoyn katalhceis, qa symplhrwnoyn tis wres poy xaqhkan. Dhladh, den qa ginontai ekdromes kai peripatoi se ekeina ta sxoleia. Ean doyme oti xanontai perissoteres wres, tote qa lhfqoyn kai alla metra, etsi wste oi maqhtes na anaplhrwsoyn aytes tis wres poy xanontai.

XRHSTAKOS: Epeidh akoysa kai egw thn idia radiofwnikh ekpomph, an qymamai kala, o goneas eipe oti se ayto to sxoleio, yphrjan kapoioi ejwsxolikoi oi opoioi fwnajan ta paidia kai amesws meta egine h katalhch. Yparxei kapoio sxolio gi` aytoy toy eidoys tis katalhceis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den kanw sxolio gi` ayth thn kataggelia kai den thn anefera, paroti to akoysa  einai akribws opws to lete- to edwsa omws ws stigma. Se ena sxoleio poy den yparxei kanena apolytws problhma, kapoioi prokaloyn problhma, legontas oti diafwnoyn me ton ``Kapodistria 2'', poy den exei erqei akoma kai poy en pash periptwsei, den einai qema antiparaqeshs metajy twn maqhtwn enos sxoleioy, h diafwnoyn me ta kentra eleyqerwn spoydwn, diafwnoyn me eyrwpaikes odhgies k.o.k., h me to arqro 16. Ayta einai profaseis.

SMYRNHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, yparxoyn omws sxoleia poy maqhtes kanoyn maqhma katw apo sobades poy peftoyn, mazi me pontikia, qelw na pw oti ta problhmata exoyn kai thn arnhtikh pleyra, oxi mono ta sxoleia poy den exoyn problhma. Yparxoyn, ontws, problhmata ktiriaka, se egkatastaseis, oi kaqhghtes miloyn gia elleich 2.000 kaqhghtwn...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi elleiceis einai elaxistes, ayth th stigmh, se epipedo kaqhghtwn, opws exoyn kalyfqei sto 99% se epipedo bibliwn. Anarwtiemai an aytes oi elleiceis einai ikanes, giati kaneis den eipe oti h katastash einai idanikh pantoy. Ginontai prospaqeies, xtizontai synexws nees sxolikes aiqoyses. Exoyme dwsei mia seira apo analytika stoixeia kai stis programmatikes dhlwseis ths kybernhshs kai palaiotera, apologistika. H prohgoymenh Ypoyrgos Paideias eixe dwsei mia seira apo stoixeia, ta opoia htan poly endiaferonta gia to poses sxolikes aiqoyses xtisthkan mesa se triamisi xronia. Diarkhs prospaqeia xreiazetai. Xreiazetai, omws, kai sebasmos toy dhmokratikoy dikaiwmatos twn maqhtwn poy qeloyn na parakoloyqhsoyn ta maqhmata toys.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na rwthsw sthn politikh diastash toy qematos, an h kybernhsh blepei oti pisw apo ayth thn kinhtikothta...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan h prwth erwthsh poy moy teqhke.

SPYRAKH: Nai, poy emfanizoyn oi katalhceis, yparxoyn politika kommata kai to lew, giati shmera yparxoyn dhlwseis stelexwn kai apo thn pleyra toy Kommoynistikoy Kommatos kai apo thn pleyra toy SYRIZA poy exoyn mia koinh parametro, oti aytoi den einai paidonomoi, oti ta problhmata einai yparkta kai oti ta kommata ayta den einai paidonomoi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanena sxolio.

SPYRAKH: Epishs, qelw na sas rwthsw kati allo: An h kybernhsh skeftetai na dwsei kapoies odhgies stoys dieyqyntes twn sxoleiwn poy teloyn ypo katalhch, dedomenoy oti yparxei mia pleyra, opws th ferate edw, yparxei kai mia allh thn opoia exoyn katagracei oi kameres kai yparxoyn kataggelies kai sto meso poy ergazomai, poy lene oti oi dieyqyntes twn sxoleiwn einai idiaitera epiqetikoi me ta paidia poy epixeiroyn na kinhtopoihqoyn. Moy eferan to prwi ena paradeigma oti yparxei dieyqynths, -endexomenws ton exei katagracei kai h kamera- poy apeyqynomenos se maqhtria poy hqele na kanei katalhch, ths eipe oti ``esy twra teleiwses''. Ayth h symperifora den qa prepei na ypokeitai kai ayth se kapoies odhgies, kentrikes, apo to Ypoyrgeio Paideias se sxesh me th diaxeirish tetoiwn... ;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi odhgies toy Ypoyrgeioy Paideias einai gnwstes, edw kai polla xronia. Den einai kainoyrgies, den einai eidikes gia kaqe periptwsh. Ekeino poy exei poly megalh shmasia einai oti oloi prepei na sebontai to dikaiwma toy kaqenos sth gnwsh. Kaneis den exei dikaiwma na apagoreyei sto diplano toy na paei sto sxoleio kai na parakoloyqhsei ta maqhmata. Kai fantazomai oti kaqe dhmokratika eyaisqhtopoihmenos poliths, yioqetei ayth thn apoch, giati antistoixws apo thn allh pleyra diapistwnoyme oti yparxoyn proswpa ta opoia spane ta loyketa, se wres poy den exei maqhma to sxoleio, bazoyn kainoyrgies alysides, kainoyrgia loyketa kai mpainoyn thn epomenh to prwi, katalambanoyn to xwro kai oi oligoi epiballoyn thn apoch toys stoys polloys; Se poia Dhmokratia, anarwtiemai, alhqeia, apo arxaiotatwn xronwn, oi oligoi epiballoyn thn apoch toys stoys polloys. Ayto mas didajan oi arxaioi hmwn progonoi; Ayto mas didaje h filosofia; Ayto mas didaje h dieqnhs episthmonikh koinothta, h dieqnhs akadhmaikh koinothta; Ayto einai Dhmokratia, en telei; Anarwtiemai. Sebomai to dikaiwma toy kaqenos na diamartyrhqei. Bebaiws. Den eipa oti ola einai rodina. Kaneis den eipe oti ola einai teleia. Sebontai to dikaiwma twn maqhtwn poy qeloyn na parakoloyqhsoyn maqhmata, aytoi oi ligoi oi opoioi diamartyrontai, oi ligoi oi opoioi katalambanoyn kai kleinoyn ta sxoleia;

BLABIANOS: Kai telikws, poios qa einai aytos o opoios qa profylajei 13xrona kai 15xrona paidia poy tyxon qeloyn na kanoyn maqhma kai den qeloyn na symmetasxoyn se katalhceis, apo th stigmh poy qewrhtika prepei na ginetai chfoforia sta sxoleia; Den ginontai chfofories, ap` o,ti antilambanomai, kai kapoies meiochfies leitoyrgoyn kat` ayton ton tropo. Dhladh, pws qa profylaxqoyn ta paidia ayta; Poios einai o tropos me ton opoio qa mporesoyn toylaxiston na akoloyqhsoyn ayto to opoio qeloyn oi idioi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H Politeia kalei toys daskaloys, toys kaqhghtes kai toys goneis na symmetexoyn dhmokratika -kai aytoi- sto dikaiwma kaqe maqhth na maqei grammata.

MPOTSARAKOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, pws sxoliazete tis topoqethseis toy k. Karatzaferh gia to qema twn Skopiwn kai thn epiqesh poy ejapelyse proswpika sthn Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Mpakogiannh. An yparxei kapoia topoqethsh apo thn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti ayrio, ypo thn aigida toy OHE, jekina enas neos gyros dialogoy me th gnwsth diafora ths xwras mas me thn Prwhn Gioygkoslabikh Dhmokratia ths Makedonias poy afora sthn ejeyresh koinws apodekths onomasias ths geitonikhs xwras. Aytos o neos gyros dialogoy einai isws o krisimoteros oswn exoyn prohghqei sth makra seira etwn, apo tote poy anekyce to qema. Eimaste, loipon, ws xwra  opws sas eipa kai xqes- ws laos se qesh maxhs. Diabebaiwnoyme oti qa dwsoyme ton kalytero mas eayto gia na petyxoyme mia kalh lysh. Ayth thn wra, kaqenas kanei tis epiloges toy. Oloi mas krinomaste apo toys polites kai thn Istoria. Oi Ellhnides kai oi Ellhnes ajiwnoyn apo oloys mas, apo oles tis politikes dynameis toy topoy, sobarothta kai ypeyqynothta. Apaitoyn na bazoyme panw apo ola to eqniko symferon, idiaitera sta eyaisqhta zhthmata ejwterikhs politikhs. Opws epanelaba, xqes kai proxqes, h kybernhsh proserxetai se ayto to dialogo me sebasmo sthn Istoria kai me realismo. Me jekaqares qeseis. H politikh einai mia, eniaia kai exei anakoinwqei hdh apo tis programmatikes dhlwseis ths kybernhshs sth Boylh. H prospaqeia toy sygkekrimenoy arxhgoy kommatos ston opoio anaferqhkate, exei emfaneis, anagnwrisimoys apo oloys toys polites, mikrokommatikoys stoxoys kai qa pesei sto keno. Kata ta loipa, oi xarakthrismoi kai oi ybreis poy ektojeyei, kaqws kai h ametroephs alazoneia poy ekpempei, xarakthrizoyn ton idio.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, anaferqhkate se kalh lysh. Poia einai gia thn Ellada h kalh lysh sto Skopiano;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme milhsei dhmosiws gi` ayto to qema, oso prepei. Den qa pw tipote perissotero.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, na zhthsw mia dieykrinish gia kati poy eipate nwritera se erwthsh toy k. Blabianoy. Eipate oti h kybernhsh kalei toys goneis kai toys daskaloys na einai konta sta paidia ta opoia qeloyn na parakoloyqoyn ta maqhmata. Me poio tropo na einai konta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite ``me poio tropo''; Qelete na to dieykrinisete;

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Qelw na pw oti epeidh kata kairoys exoyme kai fainomena...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na sas rwthsw egw; To sxoleio stis hmeres sas, pws leitoyrgoyse; Den eixe enan lykeiarxh, enan gymnasiarxh, kaqhghtes, oi opoioi apofasizan apo to ean qa phgainate ekdromh mia hmera, ews to pws qa diejagontan oi wres twn maqhmatwn, to programma k.t.l.; Yparxei, loipon, endiaferon kai ypoxrewsh apo toys anqrwpoys oi opoioi exoyn taxqei apo thn Politeia na briskontai ekei, na einai ekei. Oyte yparxei kapoia kataggelia oti apoysiazoyn oi kaqhghtes kai den einai ekei. Oi goneis, epishs, exoyn mia dhmokratikh eyaisqhsia, thn opoia exoyn apodeijei, opws kai oi maqhtes, endiaferomenoi na maqoyn ta maqhmata toys, na einai sth sxolikh aiqoysa. H ellhnikh Politeia den exei para polloys tropoys. Kanoyme mia ekklhsh, ayth th stigmh, stoys anqrwpoys poy einai ypeyqynoi -kai ennow toys daskaloys, toys kaqhghtes, toys goneis- na bohqhsoyn oso mporoyn kai aytoi me dialogo, na anoijoyn ta sxoleia ekeina poy exoyn kleisei. Den einai polla, den einai kai liga. Kaqhmerinws poikillei o ariqmos, apo 250 se 350, edw kai 10-15 hmeres. Jekinhse me ligotera, exei ftasei twra se ayto ton ariqmo. Sta xiliades sxoleia poy yparxoyn einai ena pososto. Qewrw oti qa prepei oloi na eyaisqhtopoihqoyme kai na eyaisqhtopoihsoyme kai thn koinh gnwmh. Pisteyw oti se ayth thn kateyqynsh o rolos, oxi mono ths Politeias, alla kai olwn osoi exoyn dhmosio logo, einai shmantikos.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Qelw na pw, ean epitrepete, oti apo mia apoch h ekklhsh sas, h protroph sas, qa mporoyse na eklhfqei kai ws protroph stoys goneis, ``phgainete sta sxoleia na symballete me th dikh sas paroysia sto na anoijoyn ta sxoleia''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oydepote h ellhnikh Politeia kai opoiosdhpote sth qesh moy qa proetrepe se aytodikia, ean ayto einai poy krybetai katw apo thn erwthsh sas. To entelws antiqeto.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean qewreite oti olh ayth h kinhtikothta poy anaptyssetai sta sxoleia me tis katalhceis apotelei meros sxedioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qewreite oti o ``Kapodistrias 2'' einai qema poy prepei na apasxolei ena gymnasio, ena lykeio; Anarwtiemai st` alhqeia poios mporei na peisei sta sobara toys Ellhnes polites poy plhrwnoyn toys foroys -oi opoioi qeloyn ta paidia toys na phgainoyn sto sxoleio kai na kanoyn maqhmata- oti ayto poy apasxolei shmera ena maqhth toy gymnasioy h toy lykeioy einai o ``Kapodistrias 2''. Eilikrina sas to lew, anarwtiemai ws Ellhnas poliths. Den lew oti den prepei na exoyn gnwmh oi maqhtes. Makari oi maqhtes apo thn hlikia twn 14, 15 etwn, na diamorfwnoyn gnwmh. Einai poly shmantiko gia th neolaia kai gia to mellon toy topoy. Kaneis den qelei aboyloys maqhtes, kaneis den qelei aboyloys polites ayrio. Mporei omws kai h logikh na antejei kapoia apanthsh sto erwthma ``ti sxesh exei o -Kapodistrias 2- me tis katalhceis twn sxoleiwn''; Kai en pash periptwsei, o Kapodistrias, ws prwtos kybernhths, alla didaje se ayto ton topo.

PALAIOLOGOS: Na pame se ena allo qema. Me balate se peirasmo, epeidh sxoliasate tis apoceis toy k. Karatzaferh gia tis ybreis, opws...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den shmainei, omws, oti qa to kanw kai synexeia.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, swsto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opote, mallon den qa parete apanthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ayto, bebaiws, einai diko sas qema, sth diakritikh eyxereia sas einai ayto, etsi kai alliws. Alla, xqes, toso dyo koryfaia stelexh ths paratajhs, istorika qa elega, o k. Mhtsotakhs, alla kai o k. G. Barbitsiwths, zhthsan apo thn kybernhsh na kinhqei me pio grhgoroys ryqmoys to kybernhtiko ergo kai na epitaxynei toys ryqmoys, idiaitera sto qema twn metarryqmisewn. Poia einai h apanthsh sas, to sxolio sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai sebastes oi apoceis. Wstoso, pragmatika aporw pws syndyazete toys men me ton de. Den blepw, dhladh, ti eidoys yperbash einai ayth poy sas kanei na toys syndyazete.

PAPAIOLOGOS: Oxi. Epeidh eida oti to sxoliasate. Sxoliasate gia tis apoceis Karatzaferh kai perimena kapoio sxolio dhladh kai se sxesh me ayta poy diatypwsan ta dyo istorika stelexh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gi` ayto lew oti den katalabainw pws syndyazete toys men me ton de.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh exei sygkekrimeno xronodiagramma se o,ti afora thn poreia ths syntagmatikhs anaqewrhshs kai eidika thn proteinomenh apo thn pleiochfia, thn kybernhtikh allagh toy arqroy 24 toy Syntagmatos poy afora sthn prostasia twn daswn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei allajei kati apo ayto poy sas eixa pei, thn prwth kiolas ebdomada poy arxisame thn enhmerwsh sto press-room: To Syntagma problepei oti ayth h syzhthsh prepei na exei oloklhrwqei sthn prwth Synodo ths Boylhs, poy shmainei ews ton Ioynio h ton Ioylio.

SPYRAKH: Kai ep` aytoy, ean moy epitrepete, yparxei kapoia skech na dexqeite allages, tropopoihseis, se o,ti afora thn arxikws diatypwqeisa apo thn pleyra sas protash gia thn allagh toy arqroy 24;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, h allagh toy Syntagmatos proypoqetei synainesh. Synainesh shmainei oti kaneis ena bhma pisw esy, kanei ena bhma pisw o apenanti kai briskete th mesh lysh. Elpizoyme oti qa yparxei synainesh. Apo thn pleyra mas yparxei, alla qa yparxoyn kai epoikodomhtikes protaseis gia thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos.

SMYRNHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o k. Mhtsotakhs xqes sthn synenteyjh toy eipe oti o k. Polydwras eixe orismena dikaia kai oti einai maxhths ths paratajhs. H kybernhsh pisteyei oti eixe kapoia dikaia o k. Polydwras;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaneis den amfisbhtei oti o k. Polydwras einai maxhths ths paratajhs. Kaneis den amfisbhtei oti ws ypoyrgos eixe dikaia bebaiws. Den nomizw oti yparxei kati to opoio na antibainei thn pragmatikothta se ayto poy leei o k. Mhtsotakhs. Ayto pisteyei kai h kybernhsh.

MPOTSARAKOS: Se sxesh me ton eklogiko nomo, epeidh se palaioterh enhmerwsh eixate pei oti qa mas enhmerwsete kai emas gia to pote qa erqei o eklogikos nomos, peran toy gnwstoy ths prwths Synodoy. Kai ena deytero, an pisteyete oti me synanthseis ektos ypoyrgeiwn, se kafeneia, se estiatoria mporoyn na pesoyn gefyres me diaforoys diafwnoyntes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw poy anafereste sto deytero skelos ths erwthsh sas, alla de nomizw oti apotelei antikeimeno ths kybernhtikhs drashs.

MPOTSARAKOS: Genika to qetw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia ton eklogiko nomo exw hdh apanthsei hdh edw sto press room. Den allazei h apanthsh moy. Eixa pei tote oti qa ginei sthn prwth Synodo kai eixa pei oti den qa ginei ton prwto - deytero mhna. An qymamai kala ayth htan h apanthsh poy eixa dwsei.

MELIGKWNHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na sas rwthsw an ayrio o Prwqypoyrgos protiqetai na anakoinwsei metra sxetika me to periballon h kapoies prwtoboylies ths kybernhshs oi opoies ws twra den exoyn anakoinwqei. Epishs, an h kybernhsh janaskeftetai to endexomeno xwrismoy toy Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos se jexwristo Ypoyrgeio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos qa kanei mia synoptikh anafora twn ergwn poy exoyn ginei gia to periballon, ths drasthriothtas mas gia to periballon kai qa milhsei kai gia ta mellonta se oti afora to periballon. Ekeina ta opoia me rwtate sto deytero skelos ths erwthsh sas, exoyn apanthqei hdh apo thn omilia poy ekane o Ypoyrgos Periballontos k. Soyflias stis programmatikes dhlwseis. An tis diabasete, qa deite oti exei anaferqei me poly sygkekrimeno tropo, pio sygkekrimeno apo oti fantazontai orismenoi, se ayto poy leme dhmioyrgia Ypoyrgeioy Periballontos.

N.PAPADHMHTRIOY: Exei kleidwsei gia tis 18 Noembrioy h synanthsh twn kyriwn Karamanlh kai Erntogan;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den exw kati tetoio. Otan qa exw qa sas enhmerwsw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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