Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-07-03

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 3 Ioylioy 2007

Xairete.

Oloklhrwqhke prin apo ligo, opws gnwrizete, h synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs me to antikeimeno poy sas anefera xqes. Oi Ypoyrgoi ekanan dhlwseis, ejerxomenoi toy Megaroy Majimoy.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes sth Boylh, ean moy dinete to logo, o k. Alabanos nomizw anefere ena stoixeio oti ta teleytaia xronia ta xrhmata poy diatiqentai apo koinotika kondylia gia thn antimetwpish twn pyrkagiwn den exoyn aporrofhqei. Oyte apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, oyte apo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. An isxyei kat` arxhn to stoixeio kai ean exei kapoia ejhghsh h kybernhsh gia to kommati poy thn afora, to diko ths.

ANTWNAROS: Qa hqela na sas kanw mia mikrh anafora gi` ayto to qema, dioti yparxoyn stoixeia ta opoia paroysiazontai monopleyra. Sxetika, loipon, me diaforoys pinakes aporrofhshs ergwn toy Tameioy Synoxhs, qa hqela na sas pw ta ejhs: Exei plhrws diasfalistei kai brisketai sth diaqesh twn ergwn toy Tameioy Synoxhs to synolo twn apaitoymenwn porwn poy exoyn diateqei apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh ycoys 3.235,81 ekatommyriwn eyrw.

Gia th xrhmatodothsh twn ergwn Tameioy Synoxhs kai milaw gia ola ta erga, gia na mhn yparxei kamia paranohsh, ekdidontai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph apofaseis ana ergo. Symfwna me tis apofaseis aytes --stis opoies anaferetai metajy allwn to fysiko antikeimeno, o proypologismos kai to xronodiagramma oloklhrwshs-- h ylopoihsh megaloy ariqmoy ergwn ekteinetai mexri kai to etos 2010.

Ta erga, apo thn ekdosh ths egkritikhs apofashs xrhmatodothshs apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, apaitoyn ena ikano xrono gia thn oloklhrwsh ths proetoimasias toys, poy perilambanei toso th xronobora diadikasia gia thn apokthsh ths apaitoymenhs ghs, oso kai to synolo ths diagwnistikhs diadikasias mexri thn ypografh twn symbasewn ylopoihshs toys.

H symbasiopoihsh twn ergwn einai apolyta syndedemenh me tis eisroes, afoy gia kaqe ergo h prokatabolh kataballetai apo tis Yphresies ths E.E., meta th symbasiopoihsh toy 20% toy antikeimenoy toy ergoy.

Gia orismena erga twn opoiwn oi egkritikes apofaseis ekdoqhkan apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph to telos toy 2005 kai to 2006, h eikona ths mhdenikhs aporrofhtikothtas, se kamia periptwsh, den apotypwnei thn ejelijh ylopoihshs twn ergwn kai tis prospaqeies poy exoyn analhfqei gia thn epitaxynsh kai thn oloklhrwsh toys. H opoiadhpote paraqesh stoixeiwn aporrofhshs xwris thn taytoxronh synektimhsh kai allwn paragontwn, opws ths hmeromhnias egkrishs ths xrhmatodothshs toy problepomenoy xronoy oloklhrwshs, twn en ejelijei diadikasiwn dhmoprathshs kaqws kai twn stoixeiwn fysikhs kai oikonomikhs proodoy, apotelei steira logistikh apeikonish kai mono, h opoia se kamia periptwsh den apotypwnei thn pragmatikothta ths proodoy ylopoihshs twn ergwn aytwn, dhmioyrgwntas apolytws lanqasmenes entypwseis.

NASOPOYLOS: En oligois, kyrie Ekproswpe, mas lete oti apo ta kondylia ta koinotika gia thn antipyrikh prostasia...

ANTWNAROS: Milhsa synolika gia kondylia, gia erga apo to Tameio Synoxhs.

NASOPOYLOS: Gia to sygkekrimeno. Gia thn antipyrikh prostasia mas lete oti den exei aporrofhqei oyte ena eyrwsent, alla h kybernhsh mexri...

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa kati tetoio. Parakalw na diabasete prosektika tis dhlwseis moy. Se kaqe periptwsh, o eyrwboyleyths o opoios xrhsimopoihse ta en logw stoixeia, qa eprepe na einai pio eyaisqhtopoihmenos sta qemata ayta kaqoson exei labei, mesw toy Typoy, analytikh apanthsh apo ton Oktwbrio toy 2005 gia paromoio pinaka poy kai pali tote promhqeythke apo thn Epitropo.

KYRITSHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, dhladh, egw proseja para poly kala ti eipate. Proseja, prwton, oti apofygate na anaferqeite sto antikeimeno ths erwthshs poy htan h xrhmatodothsh twn antipyrikwn ergwn. Kai h genikh sas apanthsh einai oti mas efage h grafeiokratia kai kaigontai ta dash.

ANTWNAROS: An ayto katalabate, laqos katalabate.

KYRITSHS: Mporeite na moy peite to swsto;

ANTWNAROS: Hmoyn poly leptomerhs.

SMYRNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to na mas bazete sth diadikasia na jexwrisoyme apo ena paketo ergwn 3 dis 235 ekatommyriwn eyrw, ti exei doqei gia ta antipyrika, mas bazete se ena labyrinqo. Einai poly megala ta noymera. Peite mas, gia ta antipyrika sygkekrimena ti aporrofhseis eixame. Apokleietai na mhn exei enhmerwqei h kybernhsh apo xqes poy trexei ayto to qema, posa xrhmata aporrofhsame kai dwsame gia thn antipyrikh prostasia.

ANTWNAROS: Erwthqhka kai xqes. Apeyqynqeite sta armodia Ypoyrgeia kai qa parete tis apanthseis.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, fantazomai oti epi th basei ths apanthshs poy dwsate to PASOK qa apanthsei oti akribws epeidh einai poly xronoboros h diadikasia, h diadikasia poy emeis kinhsame, qa pei to PASOK, hrqe kai wrimase epi twn hmerwn sas. Se ayto to epixeirhma poy einai bebaio oti qa antitajei to PASOK meta tayta, eseis ti exete na apanthsete;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas pw kati poly aplo. Ta epixeirhmata toy PASOK den peiqoyn se kanena tomea pia kanenan.

GKOYTZANHS: Epishs, pali xqes sth Boylh kai to exoyn kai shmera oi efhmerides, lene oti mono ena sta enteka stremmata poy exoyn kaei olo to prohgoymeno diasthma kai ayto afora pali kai thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai th dikh sas, anadaswnetai.

ANTWNAROS: Kanete laqos.

GKOYTZANHS: Egw den kanw laqos. Lew oti ayto to stoixeio katateqhke...

ANTWNAROS: Ta stoixeia poy kateqese o Prwqypoyrgos apodeiknyoyn akribws ta antiqeta. Kanete laqos. Epanalambanw oti oses perioxes kahkan kata th diarkeia ths diakybernhshs apo th Nea Dhmokratia, khryxthkan oles anejairetws anadaswtees. Antiqetws, to PASOK afhse to 1995, to 1998, to 2000, poly megala kommatia ghs ejw apo thn anadaswsh. Ayth einai h megalh diafora. Shmera de mia megalh apo apoch kykloforias efhmerida exei sthn prwth ths selida akribws ti egine se mia perioxh ths Aqhnas, sthn Pentelh, poy kahke epi diakybernhsews PASOK kai deixnei se poio shmeio eftase na einai shmera. Giati akribws oi perioxes ekeines den eixan kriqei anadaswtees. Gia mas isxyei ayto poy eipe o Prwqypoyrgos xqes: Oti se kaqe spiqamh poy kahke, ekei qa janabgei dasos, xwris kamia ejairesh. Ayto desmeyei th shmerinh kybernhsh. Den desmeye de sto parelqon tis kybernhseis toy PASOK poy den exoyn tipote na poyn ep` aytoy shmera.

GKOYTZANHS: Sygnwmh kyrie Ekproswpe, egw apla thn erwthsh hqela na kanw. (Den akoygetai)... na th qesw sthn kybernhsh gia na exw thn apanthsh ths kai thn (den akoygetai). Giati na kanw laqos; Lew oti ayto to stoixeio paroysiasan, poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs;

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, ep` aytoy. Ayto poy eipe xqes o Prwqypoyrgos to eixe janapei kai ton Ioylio toy 2005, meta th megalh pyrkagia sth Rafhna, oti sth qesh toy dasoys qa ginei dasos, eixe pei. Ta stoixeia, omws, einai atrantaxta. Stis qeseis toy dasoys exoyn ginei biles. Oi fwtografies stis efhmerides shmera kai se palaioterh epoxh to apodeiknyoyn. Exoyn ginei biles.

ANTWNAROS: Ti ennoeite; Poia ``palaioterh epoxh'';

KAKALHS: Meta to 2005 lew egw.

ANTWNAROS: Sthn aiqoysa ayth, paristamai ws ekproswpos ths kybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, h opoia exei analabei th diakybernhsh ths xwras apo ton Martio toy 2004.

KAKALHS: Sas rwtaw (den akoygetai)...

ANTWNAROS: Sas lew, loipon, oti oi perioxes oi opoies ypesthsan oikologikh katastrofh apo tis dasikes pyrkagies toy 2005 kai toy 2006, oles aytes oi perioxes khryxqhkan, xwris ejairesh, anadaswtees.

KAKALHS: Anadaswtees khryssontan, alla meta xtizontan.

ANTWNAROS: Kanete laqos.

KAKALHS: To idio xarakthristiko einai kai gia tis dyo kybernhseis.

ANTWNAROS: Ejakoloyqeite na epimenete, enw yparxoyn oi ariqmoi kai ta stoixeia ta opoia apodeiknyoyn oti megala tmhmata twn daswn poy kahkan tis xronies poy sas eipa epi kybernhsewn PASOK den khryxqhkan --para th desmeysh poy yparxei apo ton nomo anadaswtea. Ayth einai mia shmantikh, poiotikh kai oysiastikh diafora.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, h diafora einai h ejhs: Oti panta khryssontai anadaswtees, alla sthn prajh ena kommati emene ap` ejw apo thn anadaswsh kai xtizontan. Ayto qa ginei kai twra.

ANTWNAROS: Ayto den ginetai shmera.

KAKALHS: Giati na ginei kati diaforetiko me esas; Poia einai h eggyhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Giati emeis ayto to exoyme apodeijei sthn prajh.

KAKALHS: Akribws to antiqeto exete apodeijei. Sas lew oti meta to 2005 sthn Aqhna exoyn xtistei...

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, an exoyme teleiwsei me tis pyrkagies na qesw merika erwthmata poy aforoyn sth xqesinh syzhthsh sth Boylh. Me prwto thn eidikh anafora poy ekane o Prwqypoyrgos se sxesh me thn, kata ton Prwqypoyrgo, emplokh toy k. Papakwnstantinoy, toy Genikoy Dieyqynth toy PASOK se epimaxh ypoqesh agoras omologwn. Qelw na rwthsw an ayto apotelei deigma grafhs kai gia alles periptwseis poy proerxontai apo to parelqon kai poy sthn kybernhsh katalogizetai ws epixeirhsh symchfismoy.

ANTWNAROS: Sas exw pei: H shmerinh kybernhsh den kanei, den qelei na kanei, den prokeitai na kanei kanenan apolytws symchfismo. Ayto einai perissotero apo safes.

SPYRAKH: Se o,ti afora thn oysia ths ypoqeshs toy k. Papakwnstantinoy, shmera eixate apanthsh pantws apo thn pleyra toy PASOK kai apo thn pleyra toy k. Papakwnstantinoy.

ANTWNAROS: Oi apanthseis aytes den lene tipota. Den allazoyn ta stoixeia ta opoia kateqese xqes o Prwqypoyrgos sth Boylh. Den mpainoyn sthn oysia toy qematos.

KOTTARIDHS: Pote enhmerwqhke h kybernhsh gi` ayth thn istoria me ton k. Papakwnstantinoy;

ANTWNAROS: Shmasia exoyn ayta kaqayta ta stoixeia. Sta stoixeia qa prepei na apanthsoyn kai to PASOK kai o Genikos Dieyqynths toy. Sthn oysia twn stoixeiwn kai oxi na kanoyn kykloys gyrw  gyrw apo to qema.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pera apo to oti prepei na apanthqoyn kapoia pragmata epi ths oysias, exete dikio se ayto, exei omws mia shmasia kai o xronos poy hrqan ayta ta stoixeia ypoch ths kybernhshs. Giati ayto kati deixnei kai shmera o k. Delhmhtsos, o shmerinos proedros toy TEO, se radiofwnikh toy synenteyjh eipe oti ta stoixeia ayta ta brhke ekeinos otan anelabe ton Oktwbrio toy 2004 kai ta koinopoihse ton Dekembrio toy 2004 toso ston k. Doyka oso kai ston k. Soyflia. Ara, h kybernhsh gnwrize apo to 2004 to ti synebaine sto TEO kai ofeile toylaxiston apo tote na koinopoihsei ayta ta qemata, oxi shmera.

ANTWNAROS: O k. Papandreoy kai to PASOK metrane tis meres mia  mia apo tote poy jekinhse, opws lene, to qema twn omologwn. Xqes, egine anafora se 120 hmeres. Synepws, to qema twn omologwn einai ena qema to opoio exei prokycei prosfata. Den yphrxe prin qema omologwn. Twra omws prokyptei mesa apo ayth th diadikasia, oti o nyn Genikos Dieyqynths toy PASOK, stenos synergaths toy k. Papandreoy, epilegmenos apo ton k. Papandreoy, anqrwpos o opoios profanws apolambanei ths empistosynhs toy k. Papandreoy eixe anameijh, me adiaseista stoixeia ta opoia kateqese xqes o Prwqypoyrgos sth Boylh, se mia tetoia paremferh ypoqesh. Se ayto, loipon, prepei na apanthsei to PASOK, xwris na prospaqhsei me diaforoys tropoys na dhmioyrghsei kapoio peplo mesa sto opoio qa xaqei h oysia. Na apanthsei sta sygkekrimena stoixeia. Na apanthsei pws dikoi toy anqrwpoi htan anamemeigmenoi kai eftasan na einai anamemeigmenoi, opws eipe o Prwqypoyrgos mexri tis prwtes meres poy eixe analabei th diakybernhsh ths xwras h Nea Dhmokratia, se tetoies poly perierges dosolhcies, dhqen ``galaziwn'' kai opws apodeiknyetai poly ``prasinwn'' xrhmatistwn kai allwn. Giati ta stoixeia poy edwse o Prwqypoyrgos, pera apo to sygkekrimeno qema, aforoyn kai antistoixes dosolhcies  kai o Prwqypoyrgos edwse endeiktika stoixeia panw se ayto-- oi opoies eginan to 1999, to 2000 se Tameia epi kybernhsewn PASOK. Apanthseis ep` aytwn den blepw na dinei o k. Papandreoy oyte shmera sthn omilia toy. Genika milaei. Sthn oysia den mpainei. Giati;

TSIOYFOS: Sas rwthsa omws gia to xrono poy o k. Delhmhtsos...

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa. Tipote den allazei sthn oysia toy sygkekrimenoy qematos. H metatopish toy qematos se plhrofories h stoixeia deytereyoysas h triteyoysas shmasias den allazei kaqoloy thn oysia. Egw sas zhtw na rwthsete ton k. Papakwnstantinoy na sas apanthsei gia th sygkekrimenh emplokh toy.

TSIOYFOS: Mporei epi ths oysias, kyrie Ekproswpe, na mhn allazei kati, alla omws edw emfanizetai pragmatika mia proqesh symchfismoy otan ta fernete twra enw ta jerate apo to 2004.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, den yparxei kaneis symchfismos. Aytoi omws poy kanoyn tis aqwes peristeres, prospoioyntai tis aqwes peristeres, den mporoyn na kanoyn kai na isxyrizontai oti ayta ta opoia ekanan tote exoyn diagrafei. Den ta diagrafei apo th mnhmh toy o ellhnikos laos. Den ta diagrafoyn oi polites.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh emas den mas endiaferei o kaygas Neas Dhmokratias kai PASOK kai an einai etsi ta pragmata...

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei kaneis kaygas.

GKOYTZANHS: Entajei, apoch sas  apoch moy.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws.

GKOYTZANHS: Giati h kybernhsh den kanei dekth thn protash olwn twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs na systaqei ejetastikh epitroph gia na rixqei pragmatika apleto fws se ola ayta ta xronia kai epi PASOK kai epi Neas Dhmokratias;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthse poly analytika, kai me tropo poy den epidexetai kamia amfisbhthsh, o Prwqypoyrgos. Kai epeidh milhsate gia protash, qa moy epitrecete na kanw mia mikrh diorqwsh: Ennoeite profanws protaseis twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs. Dioti diaforopoioyntai oi protaseis kai ayto fanhke kata thn prosfath chfoforia sth Boylh.

KYRITSHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ayta ta stoixeia poy paroysiase xqes o Prwqypoyrgos ta exete steilei sth Dikaiosynh h htan mono...

ANTWNAROS: Ola ta stoixeia pane sth Dikaiosynh. Allwste, h ellhnikh Dikaiosynh...

KYRITSHS: To ``pane'' einai diarkhs enestwtas (den akoygetai) sth Dikaiosynh;

ANTWNAROS: H ellhnikh Dikaiosynh sthn opoia emeis, antiqeta me polloys alloys, exoyme plhrh empistosynh kai sebomaste thn anejarthsia ths kai ton tropo leitoyrgias ths, epilambanetai olwn twn stoixeiwn.

KYRITSHS: Jerete ean exei epilhfqei;

ANTWNAROS: Den eimai ekproswpos ths ellhnikhs Dikaiosynhs.

GKOYTZANHS: Ean ayta poy elege o synadelfos k. Tsioyfos prohgoymenws gia tis dhlwseis toy k. Delhmhtsoy isxyoyn, tote se mas dhmioyrgeitai h entypwsh oti h kybernhsh ta hjere ayta apo to 2004, alla kata enan periergo tropo den ta eixe paroysiasei.

ANTWNAROS: Edwsa synolikh apanthsh prohgoymenws. Den exw na prosqesw apolytws tipota.

SPYRAKH: Yparxei, shmera, ena dhmosieyma sthn efhmerida ``TO BHMA'', to opoio anaferetai se 20 omologa staqeroy epitokioy, ta opoia h XRHMATISTHRIAKH AKROPOLIS poylhse sto TEADY th dietia 2005-2006. Qa hqela na zhthsw ena sxolio sas epi toy dhmosieymatos, dedomenoy oti anaferetai se stoixeia oti anqrwpoi ths Yphresias Eidikwn Elegxwn, meta ton elegxo poy dienhrghsan, diapistwsan oti h agorapwlhsia gia logariasmo toy TEADY htan eikonikh. Exei h kybernhsh gnwsh aytoy toy qematos;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

SPYRAKH: Den gnwrizei;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa.

SMYRNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes, o k. Byrwn Polydwras, proserxomenos sth Boylh eipe oti oson afora to syntonismo gia tis pyrkagies sthn Parnhqa akoloyqhqhkan pista oi eishghseis ths Politikhs Prostasias. Telika, poios eixe thn eyqynh; Kai to lew ayto, giati oi dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra eginan xqes, einai neoteres. H Politikh Prostasia h h Pyrosbestikh;

ANTWNAROS: Yparxoyn safws diakritoi roloi. Kai opoios den exei antilhfqei ayto, ypopiptei ston kindyno, qa elega, na sygxeei aytoys toys diakritoys roloys.

NASOPOYLOS: Ston k. Polydwra anafereste;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Se aytoys poy kanoyn ta sxolia.

GKOYTZANHS: Ton k. Polydwra me ton k. Paylopoylo ennoeite.

ANTWNAROS: Se aytoys poy kanoyn ta sxolia. Me rwthse o k. Nasopoylos kai apanthsa se poioys anaferomai.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh kanei apodekth thn protash prwinhs efhmeridas, toy ``BHMATOS'' ennow, na fwtografisei h Polemikh Aeroporia tis kamenes ektaseis kai oi fwtografies na doqoyn sth dhmosiothta;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na dwsw kapoia apanthsh se protaseis tis opoies kanoyn oi efhmerides. Na eiste bebaios oti efarmozontai, oson afora tis anadaswtees ektaseis, oi pio sygxrones meqodoi poy efarmozontai dieqnws.

KAKALHS: Einai omws poly sygkekrimenh h protash ayth.

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa.

KAKALHS: Ayto den leei tipota to geniko to diko sas.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws den antilhfqhkate ayto to opoio eipa. Eipa: Efarmozontai edw oi pio sygxrones meqodoi poy efarmozontai dieqnws.

KAKALHS: Wraia. Qa tis dwsete sth dhmosiothta tis fwtografies ths Polemikhs Aeroporias;

SPYRAKH: Epeidh egw den katalaba thn prohgoymenh apanthsh sas kai me sygxwreite, se mia dyskolia poy exw genikws, qelw na sas rwthsw, loipon, ayto to ``diakritoi roloi'' ennoeite oti einai allo pragma h Politikh Prostasia kai allo pragma o epixeirhsiakos oros;

ANTWNAROS: Ennow oti dyo yphresies, h Politikh Prostasia kai h Pyrosbestikh Yphresia, exoyn diakritoys roloys.

SPYRAKH: Oi opoioi pisteyete oti den prepei na einai ayto poy leme h mia na symplhrwnei thn allh;

ANTWNAROS: Exoyn diakritoys roloys kai synergazontai opoy prepei kai opws prepei metajy toys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh sas ekana thn idia erwthsh xqes gia to poios exei thn eyqynh, alla ej aformhs ths dhlwsews toy k. Polydwra, milhsate gia diakritoys roloys shmera, enw xqes me parapemcate stis proxqesines sas dhlwseis, alla ep` aytoy. Lyqhke telika h parejhghsh poy eixe o ekproswpos ths Pyrosbestikhs Yphresias k. Kohs me ton ekproswpo ths Politikhs Prostasias k. Foyrla; 'H oi diakritoi roloi einai kai kagkela metajy toys;

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei kamia tetoioy eidoys ``parejhghsh'', opws eipate eseis. Ayth einai mia ``parejhghsh'' thn opoia efhyran orismenoi. Exoyn topoqethqei epi toy sygkekrimenoy qematos kai ta dyo dhmosia proswpa ta opoia anaferate.

KYRITSHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eidame xqes sthn thleorash allo ena binteo apo basanisthria se astynomiko Tmhma h se astynomikh yphresia en pash periptwsei. Skeftetai h kybernhsh na diatajei mia genikoterh ereyna gia ta basanisthria;

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka ep` aytoy xqes. Yparxei kai sxetikh anakoinwsh toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs.

KYRITSHS: Rwtw, ean skopeyei h kybernhsh na diatajei mia genikoterh ereyna, oxi gia to kaqe sygkekrimeno peristatiko, kaqe fora poy kapoios traba me kinhto thlefwno. Mia genikoterh ereyna gia ta basanisthria sthn Astynomia kai stis fylakes sthn Ellada.

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxoyn basanisthria sthn EL.AS...

KYRITSHS Ayta ti htan;

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy epitrecete na apanthsw;

KYRITSHS: Sas epitrepw, alla...

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxoyn basanisthria sthn EL.AS.. O oros ``basanisthria'' einai diaforetikos, profanws sth dikh sas orologia apo th dikh moy orologia.

KYRITSHS: Peite mas pws to xarakthrizete eseis ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Memonwmena peristatika, opws sas eipa, askhshs bias...

KYRITSHS: (den akoygetai)

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw para poly. Qa moy epitrecete na dwsw thn apanthsh poy qelw egw h eseis qa dwsete apanthsh;

KYRITSHS: Nai, nai, alla exw kai allh erwthsh meta.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws. Memonwmena peristatika askhshs bias apo opoydhpote kai an proerxontai einai katadikastea kai den xarakthrizoyn to synolo ths symperiforas twn gynaikwn kai twn andrwn poy yphretoyn sthn EL. AS.

KYRITSHS: An to na bazeis kapoion na krata pagakia mexri na pagwsei to xeri toy, meta ton kopanas me gklomp, thn idia wra ton exeis me th moyrh ston toixo me ena gklomp na ton piezei kai me ena pistoli ston krotafo na toy les ``qa se skotwsw h qa pas fylakh'', den einai basanisthrio...

ANTWNAROS: Einai askhsh bias sas eipa...

KYRITSHS: Oxi basanisthrio.

ANTWNAROS: Eseis qelete na moy ekmaieysete mia lejh thn opoia epiqymeite. Egw sas eipa oti ayth h symperifora apo ta sygkekrimena atoma, apo posoys egine, apo dyo, apo treis, apo pente; Kai ayto se sxesh me merikes dekades xiliades gynaikwn kai andrwn poy yphretoyn sthn EL. AS.. Einai memonwmena peristatika. Qa moy epitrecete na meinw sthn apanthsh poy edwsa.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai egw to idio qa rwtoysa. Jerei h kybernhsh, skopeyei na maqei posa memonwmena peristatika yparxoyn h qa perimenei kaqe fora na proballetai ena binteo sthn thleorash gia na prosqetei allo ena;

ANTWNAROS: Gia osa peristatika diapistwnontai, yfistantai oles tis nomimes synepeies oi ypaitioi kai oi drastes.

SPYRAKH: Hqela na rwthsw an problhmatizei thn kybernhsh to gegonos

oti paroti xarakthrizei memonwmena ta peristatika, ta peristatika ayta jepernoyn pleon ta deka. Toylaxiston osa dhmosiopoihqhkan. Qewreite oti o oros ``memonwmena peristatika'' ejakoloyqei na thn ekfrazei thn kybernhsh h mhpws prepei na ginei mia genikoterh kinhsh se oti afora thn ekpaideysh alla kai thn peiqarxikh antimetwpish twn anqrwpwn poy empiptoyn se tetoioy eidoys parabatikes symperifores;

ANTWNAROS: Menw sthn apanthsh thn opoia sas edwsa kai parapempw se prosfates ekteneis dhlwseis poy ekane epi toy qematos, meta apo syskeceis, o Arxhgos ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias.

NASOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, se sxesh me tis pyrkagies ap oti exw antilhfqei toylaxiston apo ton Prwqypoyrgo ton Ypoyrgo kai yphresiakoys paragontes oydeis exei apodexqei oti yparxei kapoia kybernhtikh eyqynh gia tis katastrofes poy yphrjan idiws sthn Parnhqa. Xqes o boyleyths ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Miltiadhs Barbitsiwths eipe ``bebaiws yparxoyn eyqynes, qa hmastan treloi an legame oti den yparxoyn eyqynes''. Pws to sxoliazete;

ANTWNAROS: Den sxoliazw.

SMYRNHS: O k. Polydwras, pali xqes proserxomenos sth Boylh eipe oti an jana yphrxan pyrkagies sthn Parnhqa qa ekane akribws oti ekane kai sthn periptwsh twn xiliadwn kamenwn stremmatwn. Den qa mporoyse na ginei kati diaforetiko;

ANTWNAROS: Syndesate dikh sas ektimhsh me frash toy k. Polydwra.

SPYRAKH: Eipe oti den eginan laqh. Sto erwthma ``eginan laqh'', eipe oxi.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei h apanthsh toy k. Polydwra.

SPYRAKH: Sto erwthma ``eginan laqh'' o k. Polydwras leei oxi. Ayth h stixomyqia ekfrazei thn kybernhsh; Etsi akribws;

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw stis dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra. Opws sas eipa o k. Polydwras, profanws to lhsmoneite, einai Ypoyrgos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs epifortismenos me sygkekrimenh desmh armodiothtwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh parapemcate stis dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra. Na poyme to ejhs omws, oti yphrjan oi arxikes dhlwseis oi opoies fanhkan, htan oi thleoptikes, oti thn pathsame kai afhse na ennohqei oti yphrje kapoio dilhmma, eteqh dilhmma epixeirhsiako h politiko den jerw kai egw ti kai xqes meta apo pente meres nomizw hrqe kai eipe oti telika den thn pathsame h mallon prospaqhse na symmazecei thn arxikh toy dhlwsh. Se poies dhlwseis mas parapempete;

ANTWNAROS: Stis xqesines.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mias kai h kybernhsh den anagnwrizei eyqynes kai leei oti ofeiletai to gegonos stis prwtognwres kairikes synqhkes, sto xeirotero kayswna twn ekato teleytaiwn etwn k.l.p. Sas qymizw oti ton Febroyario toy 2004, h xwra eixe gnwrisei to xeirotero xeimwna twn teleytaiwn mexri tote 100 etwn kai sas qymizw kai mia dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy ekeinhs ths epoxhs oti ``den ftaiei o kairos, ftaiei h aneyqynothta kai h alazoneia twn ypeyqynwn''. Twra profanws ftaiei o kairos, tote den eftaige. Einai diaforetika pragmata.

ANTWNAROS: Thn erwthsh sas den akoysa akomh...

GKOYTZANHS: Exei th morfh topoqethshs. An qelete thn apantate.

ANTWNAROS: Edw o xwros den einai gia na kanete topoqethsh. O xwros einai gia na kanete erwthseis.

GKOYTZANHS: Wraia. Bazw erwthmatiko sto telos.

ANTWNAROS: Perimenw, loipon, thn erwthsh sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Giati twra den isxyei ekeino to opoio elege tote o k. Karamanlhs oti den ftaiei o kairos, alla ftaiei h aneyqynothta kai h alazoneia twn ypeyqynwn;

ANTWNAROS: Dioti egw k. Gkoytzanh, ws Ekproswpos ths kybernhshs se ayth thn aiqoysa, oydepote eipa oti ola ofeilontai ston kairo. Eipa pws einai symptwsh pollwn paragontwn. Asynhqistwn paragontwn, prwtofanwn paragontwn, prwtognwrwn paragontwn gia thn ellhnikh pragmatikothta. Loipon, tetoies aploysteyseis san kai aytes tis opoies prospaqeite na apodwsete eite ston Prwqypoyrgo eite se emena, oydepote eginan.

GKOYTZANHS: Isws eprepe na kanw mia prosqhkh oti akribws to idio elege tote kai h kybernhsh Shmith.

ANTWNAROS: Egw, opws sas eipa, eimai Ekproswpos ths shmerinhs kybernhshs. Ayto de to opoio sas eipa kai xqes kai thn Paraskeyh isxyei sto akeraio. Kai ta stoixeia ayta ta opoia sas pareqesa oydepote, kaneis, oles aytes tis meres den mporese na ta amfisbhthsei. Kapoios phge sthn arxh na paraqesei kapoia alla stoixeia kai dystyxws oi isxyrismoi toy epesan sto keno.

KAKALHS: Epeidh den exw janakoysei allh fora Prwqypoyrgo na aytoepairetai gia th stibarothta twn xeriwn toy, mporeite na mas peite ti ennooyse akribws o Prwqypoyrgos sthn tritologia toy xqes oti ``eimai etoimos na odhghsw th xwra ston 21o aiwna me stibaro xeri''; Ti ennoei akribws me to ``stibaro xeri'';

ANTWNAROS: Eimai bebaios oti an diabasete thn tritologia merikes fores qa thn empedwsete kai qa thn katalabete kalytera.

Sas eyxaristw.

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