Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-11-23

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 23 Noembrioy 2006

Ariqmos Deltioy: 42323897

Ekdosh 1

brf2311

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 23 Noembrioy 2006

Xairete.

" Oloklhrwqhke h synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, h opoia asxolhqhke me qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Syzhthqhke to qema twn metabolwn sth forologia eisodhmatos kai aploysteysewn ston Kwdika Bibliwn kai Stoixeiwn, ena nomosxedio gia to opoio qa milhsei se ligh wra, analytika, o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Alogoskoyfhs stoys syntaktes toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Qa hqela mono na sas pw ena-dyo stoixeia: Me to nomosxedio ayto, egkainiazoyme th deyterh fash ths forologikhs metarryqmishs gia thn opoia exoyme desmeytei. Stoxeyoyme sthn peraiterw aplopoihsh kai ton ejorqologismo toy ellhnikoy forologikoy systhmatos, me basikoys ajones: Prwton, th meiwsh ths forologikhs epibarynshs twn fysikwn proswpwn kai thn antimetwpish twn antikinhtrwn poy prokalei h domh ths yfistamenhs forologikhs klimakas. Kai deyteron, thn aploysteysh kai ton eksygxronismo twn ryqmisewn toy Kwdika Bibliwn kai Stoixeiwn, wste na enisxysoyme th diafaneia, na meiwsoyme drastika to epixeirhmatiko kostos kai tis grafeiokratikes diadikasies kai na enarmonisoyme to qesmiko plaisio me ta nea dedomena ths chfiakhs texnologias.

Oi protaseis, me bash to nomosxedio ayto, anaferontai sthn ayjhsh toy aforologhtoy posoy ths forologikhs klimakas, th dieyrynsh twn klimakiwn ths kai th stadiakh meiwsh twn forologikwn syntelestwn, se xroniko orizonta trietias, arxhs genomenhs apo ta eisodhmata poy apoktwntai to etos 2007. Ayjanoyme to aforologhto poso ths klimakas apo 1.1.2007 gia toys misqwtoys kai toys syntajioyxoys, apo 11.000 eyrw se 12.000 eyrw kai gia toys mh misqwtoys, eleyqeroys epaggelmaties, emporoys, agrotes, eisodhmaties, apo 9.500 eyrw, se 10.500 eyrw. Dieyrynoyme to klimakio efarmoghs toy Kentrikoy Forologikoy Syntelesth 30% mexri posoy eisodhmatos 30.000 eyrw, enanti 23.000 eyrw poy isxyei shmera kai peraiterw meiwnoyme to forologiko syntelesth stadiaka, se pososto 29% gia to etos 2007, 27% gia to etos 2008 kai 25% gia to etos 2009. Epipleon, gia to tmhma toy eisodhmatos apo 30.000 eyrw mexri 75.000 eyrw meiwnoyme stadiaka to syntelesth poy einai 40%, se 39% gia to 2007, 37% gia to 2008, 35% gia to 2009. Telos, diathroyme to syntelesth 40% gia ta eisodhmata anw twn 75.000 eyrw. Yparxoyn para polles ryqmiseis stis opoies den qa anaferqw, giati, opws eipa, qa anaferqei se ligh wra o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Aplws, hqela na exete mia aisqhsh toy ti periexei sta basika ths shmeia h deyterh fash ths forologikhs metarryqmishs.

" O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio stis 10.30, qa milhsei sth Boylh, sth syzhthsh pro hmerhsias diatajews, h opoia ginetai me prwtoboylia toy Proedroy toy Synaspismoy ths Rizospastikhs Aristeras k. Alekoy Alabanoy, se epipedo arxhgwn kommatwn, me qema thn Paideia.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Milhsate gia meiwsh ths forologikhs epibarynshs gia toys oikonomika asqenesteroys, alla oi prwtes epejergasies poy exoyn ginei, me bash to forologiko nomosxedio h mallon ta ofelh gia toys misqwtoys mexri 13.000 eyrw, einai 10 eyrw ethsiws. Kai apo ta 12.000 eyrw mexri tis 23.000 eyrw, h meiwsh einai amelhtea kai me th mh timariqmopoihsh ths forologikhs klimakas, plhrwnoyn parapanw. Poioi wfeloyntai, dhladh, apo ayth th forologikh metarryqmish;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw, pote prolabate na kanete aytoys toys ypologismoys...

KAKALHS: Einai gnwsta, edw kai kairo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas anaferw ena epipleon stoixeio sta osa sas eipa, gia na mh sas diabasw olo ayto to paketo poy blepete. Exoyme epipleon 180.000 Ellhnes polites. oi opoioi entassontai sto aforologhto kai den plhrwnoyn kaqoloy foro. Kai mono aytos o ariqmos twn 180.000 Ellhnwn, mexri xqes forologoymenwn, poy den qa forologoyntai apo thn 1h toy etoys 2007, antilambaneste oti einai shmantikos sto na deijei -ektos twn allwn poy sas eipa kai poy qa ta pei analytika kai o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn- oti h desmeysh gia meiwseis toy foroy stoys misqwtoys, einai desmeysh poy ginetai pragmatikothta.

KAKALHS: Ep` aytoy, mia deyterh erwthsh: Me bash ton proypologismo, oi misqwtoi kai oi syntajioyxoi, genikotera o ellhnikos laos, kaleitai na plhrwsei epipleon 3,3 dis eyrw. H forologikh epibarynsh gia thn trietia den jeperna ta 2,7 dis eyrw. Pws mas lete oti wfeloyntai oi misqwtoi kai oi syntajioyxoi, afoy me toys emmesoys foroys ta pairnete pisw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na sas to pw kai me paradeigma, mias kai epimenete se ayto poy rwthsate. Foros misqwtoy me ena paidi: Eisodhma 12.000 eyrw, mhdenikos foros, ginetai apo to 2007. Eisodhma 15.000 eyrw  einai se ayto poy eipate apo 13.000 eyrw ews 20.000 eyrw- foros me klimaka 2006 einai 750 eyrw, foros me klimaka 2007 einai 580 eyrw, meiwsh foroy 170 eyrw. Oyte ena, oyte dyo, oyte deka, poy eipate prohgoymenws.

KAKALHS: Exete ypologisei toys emmesoys foroys, posoys emmesoys foroys qa plhrwsoyn aytoi, dhladh, me tis ayjhseis sth benzinh, sta pota kai ta tsigara; Posa qa plhrwsei h kaqe oikogeneia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Molis sas apedeija oti den isxyoyn ta 10 eyrw, poy eipate prohgoymenws. Einai 170 eyrw, sth mia kathgoria twn 15.000 eyrw. An pame sthn kathgoria twn 18.000 eyrw, einai 200 eyrw, sta 20.000 eyrw, einai 220 eyrw, sta 25.000 eyrw, einai 470 eyrw meiwsh foroy, mias kai eipate apo 13.000 ews 20.000  25.000.

SIDERHS: Den qa sas aresei o xarakthrismos, alla o ``maqhteyomenos magos'' k. Tsitoyridhs, thn prolhptikh iatrikh th qelei twra me to xarti ths eforias, pragma poy shmainei oti aytoi poy den dhlwnoyn foro, poy forodiafeygoyn kai synhqws einai oi eleyqeroi epaggelmaties kai ta ychla klimakia, den qa plhrwnoyn gia na kanoyn prolhptikh iatrikh. Oi misqwtoi poy den mporoyn na glytwsoyn foroys, qa katabaloyn obolo. To blepete logiko ayto; Den rwtaw, filolaiko h oxi, ean einai logiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prwton, ontws den moy aresei o xarakthrismos. Deyteron, xqes, etyxe na eimai se mia synanthsh sto Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs me ton k. Tsitoyridh kai amesws meta se dhlwseis pros toys dhmosiografoys, toy apeyqynqhke h erwthsh thn opoia moy ypobalate kai eseis molis twra. Exei dwsei analytikh apanthsh h opoia kalyptei apolytws ayta poy me rwtate.

SIDERHS: Eixame diplwmatikh diamartyria apo to Kazakstan gia antipoihsh arxhs apo ton Ellhna Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS (xamogelwntas): Oxi pros to paron.

POYLIDOY: Hqela na sas rwthsw, yparxoyn shmerina dhmosieymata poy lene oti apo th finlandikh protash, exei afaireqei h anafora poy exei na kanei me thn perikleisth perioxh twn Barwsiwn kai apodidoyn aytes tis plhrofories sta toyrkika Mesa. Qelw na sas rwthsw, ean h ellhnikh kybernhsh einai enhmerh mias tetoias tropopoihshs sto periexomeno ths finlandikhs protashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei erwthsh h opoia apeyqynqhke sthn k. Mpakogiannh kai exw thn apanthsh mazi moy. Qa sas th dwsw amesws meta, ean den thn exete.

POYLIDOY: Thn exw dei thn apanthsh, alla den einai safes ean h kybernhsh einai enhmerh ayths ths tropopoihshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa meinw se ayta poy eipe h k. Mpakogiannh.

POYLIDOY: Sygnwmh, eseis meinate ekei poy nomizete oti prepei na meinete, alla...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eyxaristw poly, poy moy anagnwrizete ayto to dikaiwma.

POYLIDOY: Alla, se ayth thn periptwsh, oxi. Oi dhmosiografoi, ara, qa ajiopoioyn tis toyrkikes phges. Ayto mas lete, xwris apanthsh apo thn Aqhna.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa meinw sthn apanthsh ths Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Me aformh th syzhthsh poy qa ginei ayrio sth Boylh gia thn Paideia, yparxoyn polla dhmosieymata poy qeloyn thn kybernhsh na einai dixasmenh. Alloi, dhladh, ypoyrgoi qewroyn oti prepei na yparjei epitaxynsh ths metarryqmishs kai alloi lene oti prepei na yparjei ``pagwma''. Alhqeyei ayto kai eseis me poia tash eiste;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Toy Prwqypoyrgoy. O Prwqypoyrgos edwse apanthsh kai dhmosiws, molis prin apo dyo hmeres sth syzhthsh poy eixe sto London School of Economics. Nomizw oti hsastan paroysa.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Oxi, den hmoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: A, den hsastan; Krima.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den jerw ean to anakoinwsate giati den hmoyn apo thn arxh, ean alhqeyei oti mia apo tis ryqmiseis einai na mhn isxyei h ekptwsh toy 1,5% gia toys forologoymenoys poy plhrwnoyn efapaj thn eforia. Isxyei ayth h ryqmish;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mphka se leptomereies kai to eipa, giati einai polles ryqmiseis. Qa anaferqei o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn.

SIDERHS: Giati ean isxyei kai ayto einai paralogo. Exei toso ``zesto xrhma'' sto tameio toy to kratos poy enas poliths poy qelei na jemplekei kai na dwsei mia kai ejw th forologikh toy ypoxrewsh, den exei ena kinhtro na to kanei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw, oti qa dwsei synenteyjh se ligh wra o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn kai qa anaferqei se oles tis leptomereies.

KAKALHS: O ellhnikos laos den qa maqei poioi kai giati parakoloyqoysan ton Prwqypoyrgo, tis thlefwnikes syndialejeis toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai toy misoy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, opws eixate kataggeilei sto parelqon. H kybernhsh, toylaxiston, jerei poioi kai giati to ekanan ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den symfwnw mazi sas oti o ellhnikos laos den qa maqei. Jeroyme oloi poly kala oti h ypoqesh einai sth Dikaiosynh. Pisteyw oti h Dikaiosynh qa kataferei na dwsei kapoies apanthseis.

KAKALHS: Giati h kybernhsh speydei na to kleisei kai me to porisma ths pleiochfias sth Boylh poy leei oti den mporei na ginei tipota. Na maqeytei h alhqeia. Ayto sthn pragmatikothta einai to ``dia tayta''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den apaitw akribologia apo toys dhmosiografoys, otan me rwtoyn. Alla, otan apaiteite eseis -kai orqws- apo toys politikoys poy sas apantoyn na akribologoyn, nomizw oti stoixeiwdhs ypoxrewsh einai kai eseis na akribologeite. Den einai proswpikh aixmh. Einai mia parathrhsh genikhs fysews. Eipate oti ``speydei na kleisei''. Den speydei, den kleinei. H ypoqesh syzhthqhke leptomerestata sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias ths Boylhs. Sas qymizw oti den einai oyte ejetastikh, oyte anakritikh Epitroph. Einai Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias. Syzhthqhke me protash ths kybernhshs kai oxi alloy kommatos se ayth thn Epitroph. H kybernhsh, melh ths kai o Prwqypoyrgos einai aytoi poy epesan qymata ypoklopwn kai h kybernhsh einai ekeinh poy esteile thn ypoqesh sth Dikaiosynh. Epitrecte moy na synexisw na lew oti exoyme empistosynh sth Dikaiosynh, h opoia den exei kleisei kaqoloy thn ypoqesh. Thn ereyna. Eimai bebaios oti otan exei ta dedomena poy prepei na exei, qa proxwrhsei sta peraiterw.

KAKALHS: Gia logoys akribeias poy eipate kai eseis, h kybernhsh me prajikopimatiko tropo, antiqeta me th gnwmh olwn twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs, ekleise to qema sth Boylh kai th syzhthsh kai stamathse to ergo ths Epitrophs poy mporoyse na synexistei. Ara, den einai ola anakribeies.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti ta kommata, me bash ton Kanonismo, exoyn kai polla dikaiwmata.

KAKALHS: Profanws, alla kai to ti kanoyn einai...

ROYSOPOYLOS: H Boylh syzhthse to qema sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias. Na mhn epanalabw kai sas koyrasw to pws to syzhthse, katopin poias protasews kai poias pleyras, analytika gia para polloys mhnes. H ypoqesh einai sth Dikaiosynh. Den exei kleisei tipota.

KAKALHS: Pisteyete oti h kybernhsh exei steilei mhnyma sta yperatlantika kentra poy symfwna me oles tis endeijeis oi ypoklopes eginan apo th meria twn Amerikanwn kai twn mystikwn yphresiwn twn HPA; Exei steilei to mhnyma kai exei teleiwsei thn ypoqesh; Dhladh, aytos htan o skopos kai twra prepei na kleisei gia na mhn xalasoyn oi ellhnoamerikanikes sxeseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai mia analysh poy kanete apo thn optikh sas skopia kai me thn opoia den symfwnw. Se kaqe periptwsh, gnwrizete poly kala oti to qema syzhthqhke me leptomereies sth Boylh. H Dikaiosynh to exei pleon sta xeria ths, prokeimenoy na odhghqei sta symperasmata poy qa odhghqei.

KALARITHS: H kybernhsh protiqetai na proteinei th systash Ejetastikhs Epitrophs meta to peras ths dikastikhs ereynas, opws eixe pei palaiotera;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei o,ti exoyme pei kai sto parelqon.

MANH: Qa epanelqw sto qema ths prolhptikhs iatrikhs. Prin apo deka hmeres eixe rwthqei o anaplhrwths sas, me aformh reportaz tote, gia thn proqesh toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs na epiballei th symmetoxh twn asfalismenwn se prolhptikes iatrikes ejetaseis. Eixe apanthsei tote to profanes, oti den sxoliazei reportaz, dhmosiografikes plhrofories kai oti qa topoqethqei h kybernhsh otan ayto erqei epishmws. Epeidh hrqe ayto epishmws, den akoysame tipota.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na sas diabasw to teleytaio kommati ths dhlwshs toy k. Tsitoyridh. Xqes ekane th dhlwsh. Leei, loipon, kleinontas: ``H sxetikh ryqmish problepei oti oi dyo synarmodioi ypoyrgoi dynantai na ekdwsoyn apofash, symfwna me thn opoia orismenoi sympolites mas qa metexoyn se kapoies ejetaseis prolhptikhs iatrikhs me mikrh syneisfora. H ryqmish ayth den prokeitai  kai to tonizei- na afora ejetaseis prolhptikhs iatrikhs, opws test-Pap, elegxos prostath, progennhtikos elegxos k.o.k. Osoi adikaiologhta anhsyxoyn, as perimenoyn thn koinh apofash'', katelhje o ypoyrgos kai menw se ayto.

MANH: To nomosxedio leei alla pragmata...

POYLIDOY: Shmera den ta problepei, ayrio qa ta problecei kai ayth einai h anhsyxia kai ayto einai to erwthma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati na ta problecei ayrio; Giati anhsyxeite;

POYLIDOY: Den exete ayth thn koinwnikh empeiria poy exoyme oloi oti otan anoigei ena paraqyro ayto dieyrynetai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H koinwnikh eyaisqhsia ths kybernhshs exei fanei. Eimai bebaios oti thn antistoixh koinwnikh eyaisqhsia qa exoyn kai oi ypoyrgoi poy qa laboyn ayrio thn ypoyrgikh apofash, oi opoioi einai oi idioi ths shmerinhs kybernhshs.

MANH: To nomosxedio to leei mesa. Leei ``embolia kai alles ejetaseis''. To ``kai alles ejetaseis'' ta xwraei ola, ola kai tipota.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw oti gia na ginei enas nomos sthn prajh xreiazontai kapoies koines ypoyrgikes apofaseis. Ayto poy sas diabasa anaferetai sthn koinh ypoyrgikh apofash, h opoia qa ekdoqei. Exei dwsei mia apanthsh o k. Tsitoyridhs, h opoia nomizw oti hremei ta pragmata. Den xreiazetai na biazomaste. As perimenoyme thn apofash.

SIDERHS: Na gyrisoyme stis ypoklopes. Taytizeste kai eseis me to porisma ths Epitrophs poy leei oti oi parakoloyqhseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy eginan gia kapoio skopo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, den yparxei porisma, ean milame gia th Boylh.

SIDERHS: Ekqesh twn triwn neodhmokratwn boyleytwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na akribologoyme, loipon: Ekqesh, giati porisma ekdidetai h sthn Ejetastikh h sthn Proanakritikh Epitroph ths Boylhs. Exw sxoliasei to qema. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Symfwneite me thn apoch oti osoi Dhmarxoi proxwrhsoyn se proeklogikes proslhceis prepei na mpoyn fylakh; Sas rwtw, giati ayth thn apoch thn ejefrase o k. Giakoymatos kai epeidh exei ginei poly syzhthsh gia toys symbasioyxoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai panta epifylaktikos sto na sxoliasw dhlwseis tis opoies den gnwrizw apo prwto xeri. Empisteyomai th deinothta olwn sas, alla qa moy epitrecete na mhn sxoliasw kapoia dhlwsh thn opoia den exw diabasei, oyte exw akoysei.

MPOTSARAKOS: Sto idio qema, alla oxi gia ton k. Giakoymato. Apo thn idia thn apofash toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy prokyptei oti oi Dhmarxoi apo th mia meria sthn arxh eixan dhlwsei oti proslambanoyn proswpiko, symbasioyxoys gia epoxikes anagkes kai sth synexeia sto dikasthrio dhlwsan oti ejyphretoyn pagies kai diarkeis anagkes. Ekei den yparxei ena qema nomimothtas; H kybernhsh den ejetazei to endexomeno h na askhqoyn diwjeis h na kinhqei h Dikaiosynh gi` ayto to qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti h Aytodioikhsh -to leei kai h ennoia ths lejhs- emperiexei tis eyqynes tis opoies prepei na exei o kaqe dhmotikos arxwn poy eklegetai apo to lao. Sthn Ellada exoyme to parajeno fainomeno apo th mia na leme na enisxyqei h Topikh Aytodioikhsh sth dynatothta na lambanei apofaseis kai apo thn allh, otan h Topikh Aytodioikhsh -se memonwmenes eytyxws periptwseis- lambanei lanqasmenes apofaseis na ftaiei pali h kybernhsh. Den ginetai ayto to pragma. As dexqoyme oti yparxei eyqynh toy arxonta poy eklegetai se Dhmo h Koinothta apenanti sto nomo. Den mesolabei h kybernhsh se ayth thn eyqynh. Otan o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs bghke eyqarsws kai eipe ``as erqoyn oi Dhmoi ekeinoi poy qeloyn na poyn, zhtame organikes qeseis kai egw qa toys tis dwsw amesws''. Giati den to kanoyn;

MPOTSARAKOS: H kybernhsh exei qesei ayto to erwthma stoys Dhmarxoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dhmosiws. To eipe o k. Paylopoylos.

POYLIDOY: Qelw na epanaferw to erwthma gia to qema twn asfalistikwn Tameiwn. Oi misqwtoi poy einai h megalyterh merida twn ergazomenwn plhrwnoyn poly ychlh forologhsh. Kaloyntai na plhrwsoyn twra kai tis prolhptikes ejetaseis. Poio einai to mhnyma poy dinei h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Lete ``kaloyntai na plhrwsoyn'' ws na exei yparjei mia apofash na plhrwsoyn tis prolhptikes ejetaseis en synolw. Sas diabasa, prwton, mia seira apo ejetaseis kai yparxoyn kai alles -ta eipe o k. Tsitoyridhs- poy den perilambanontai se ayto to sxedio. Kai deyteron...

POYLIDOY: Epeidh exw megalh empistosynh sth diaxeiristikh ikanothta ths kybernhshs kai ara qewrw oti apo th stigmh poy bghke kai einai qema diadikasias syntoma qa lhfqei h apofash twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn, gi` ayto synexizw sto apo ekei kai pera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa eimai edw kai qa dexqw tis epikritikes erwthseis sas, ekeinh th stigmh, otan bgei h ypoyrgikh apofash kai perilambanei pragmata, ta opoia twra eipa, me bash ta osa exei dhlwsei o k. Tsitoyridhs, oti den qa perilambanontai. Edw qa eimaste.

POYLIDOY: Mia progeysh sas dinw.

MAYRIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa moy epitrecete na epanelqw sto qema twn symbasioyxwn. Pairnontas ws aformh mia dhlwsh poy eixate kanei palaiotera, thn prohgoymenh ebdomada, apo ayth th qesh, eixate pei loipon oti prepei na stamathsei ayth h manifatoyra, h famprika, eixate xrhsimopoihsei th lejh famprika, twn symbasioyxwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den eixa pei ayto. Parakalw poly na diabasete akribws ti eixa pei.

MAYRIDHS: Eixate xrhsimopoihsei ayth th lejh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eixa pei allo pragma entelws. Den eixa pei kaqoloy ``h famprika twn symbasioyxwn'' giati den ypotimw kanenan. Eixa pei h famprika orismenwn dhmwn na pairnoyn epoxikoys, na toys dinoyn doyleia symbasewn ergoy enw toys exoyn baftisei epoxikoys. Se ayth th famprika anaferqhka kai einai akribws to idio pragma poy rwthse synadelfos sas prohgoymenws.

MAYRIDHS: Wraia. Symfwnoyme se ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se ayto nai, symfwnoyme. Sto prohgoymeno diafwnoysame.

MAYRIDHS: Entajei, symfwnoyme loipon se ayto. Erxetai, loipon, h kybernhsh, enw exei parei ayth thn politikh qesh kai leei oti apo th stigmh poy oi dhmarxoi, h Topikh Aytodioikhsh qa mas dwsei mia lista me toys symbasioyxoys poy qelei na monimopoihsei, emeis qa toys monimopoihsoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, oyte ayto leei, epitrecte moy. Leei h kybernhsh elate kai zhthste organikes qeseis. Sto dhmosio, opws gnwrizete, an den yparxei organikh qesh, den mporei na ginei proslhch. Oi proslhceis opws ginontai mesw toy ASEP, ginontai giati yparxoyn organikes qeseis. As poyme s` ayto ton xwro poy eimaste twra, poy einai 450 ypallhloi, kapoioi syntajiodotoyntai, feygoyn 5, 10, 20 anqrwpoi. Yparxoyn organikes qeseis poy exoyn oristei edw kai xronia me nomo kai prepei na symplhrwqoyn. Qa ginei diagwnismos mesw toy ASEP kai qa doqoyn ta stoixeia ekeina, ta ptyxia h opoies alles ikanothtes prepei na diaqetei kapoios gia na ginei ypallhlos stis sygkekrimenes qeseis, qa perasoyn apo to ASEP kai qa proslhfqoyn. Ti synebh se aytoys toys dhmoys poy leme; To epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora, aplws gia na to gnwrizoyme kalytera oloi mas: Enw den yphrxan organikes qeseis, enw den zhthqhke apo thn kybernhsh na systhsei organikes qeseis, proselhfqhsan kapoioi anqrwpoi, oi opoioi ypotiqetai oti symfwna me th symbash poy ypegracan, oti qa doyleyan ws symbasioyxoi gia 6 h 8 mhnes epi paradeigmati sthn dasopyrosbesh h gia alles epoxikes doyleies poy xreiazontai oi dhmoi. Telika den htan kaqoloy epoxikes giati bebaiws, den einai epoxikh doyleia to na mazeyeis ta skoypidia, ta skoypidia syllegontai olo to xrono. Egine, loipon, ayth h famprika -kai ayto ennooysa- kapoioi phran anqrwpoys kai toys topoqethsan, se qeseis poy einai organikes h me symbash, estw ergoy h ergasias, ws epoxikoys ypallhloys. Kai ekei einai to mperdema poy egine. Ti leei h kybernhsh; Leei: ``Zhthste organikes qeseis kai qa egkriqoyn''. Organikh qesh bebaiws shmainei, opws antilambaneste, epibarynsh toy proypologismoy toy dhmoy me dwra, me adeies. Dhladh h kybernhsh ti leei; As mhn krybomaste pisw apo to daxtylo mas, xrhsimopoiwntas anqrwpoys oi opoioi kanoyn doyleia poy einai doyleia oloy toy xronoy -giati ta skoypidia epanalambanw prepei na mazeyontai olo to xrono- me epoxikoys, giati oi epoxikoi ektos twn allwn plhrwnontai gia ligoys mhnes to xrono. Menoyn to maximum 8 mhnes, menoyn ektos 4 mhnes kai jana. Einai omhroi toy kaqe dhmarxoy poy qa toys epilejei, giati qa toys pei ``gia na se janaproslabw A, B, G, D... '', ta jeroyme -ta eikazoyme en pash periptwsei- kai den lynoyn se baqos xronoy to problhma. Antiqetws dhmioyrgoyn megalytera problhmata. As erqoyn, loipon, oloi pro twn eyqynwn toys, dioti h aytodioikhsh -epanalambanw- exei thn eyqynh ths ws aytodioikhsh, kai na lysoyn ta problhmata.

MAYRIDHS: Panw se ayto twra erxetai, loipon, h kybernhsh ektos apo ayto poy perigracate prohgoymenws kai leei kai kati allo: Primodotoyme me 50% th moriodothsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws.

MAYRIDHS: Ayth h praktikh oysiastika den dinei pathma na proxwrhsei ayth h diadikasia se baqos xronoy na synexistei ayth h praktikh proslhchs gia ektaktes anagkes, me skopo sto mellon na ginoyn monimoi; Pws qa stamathsei dhladh ayth h diadikasia; Den prepei me kapoion tropo na stamathsei; Poio einai to mhnyma ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei to ejhs dillhma sto opoio eixe na apanthsei h kybernhsh kai qewrw oti h epishmansh sas einai sobarh. To dillhma htan: Oloi aytoi oi anqrwpoi poy doyleyan 5, 10, 15 xronia me aytes tis logikes, erxontai twra, se hlikia twn 40, 45 etwn, exontas oikogeneia, exontas paidia, sxoleia, daneia, spitia, aytokinhta, ypoxrewseis en pash periptwsei, kai dikaiws anarwtioyntai ``ma egw sta 45 h sta 50 moy qa cajw gia doyleia kai poy qa brw th doyleia;''. Kai leei h kybernhsh: Epeidh akribws egine ayto poy egine strebla epi seira etwn, as anagnwristei oti se aytoys toys anqrwpoys prepei na doqei mia moriodothsh, molis oi dhmoi zhthsoyn organikes qeseis, na exoyn ena probadisma. Einai ena koinwniko krithrio to opoio bohqaei sto na lyqei kalytera ayto to problhma. Ean oi dhmoi gia toys opoioys milame, zhthsoyn organikes qeseis, qa tis paroyn apo thn kybernhsh, ara aytoi oi sygkekrimenoi anqrwpoi qa exoyn to probadisma to opoio prepei na exoyn.

MAYRIDHS: Pws qa diasfalistei, loipon, ayto to koinwniko krithrio apo th stigmh poy den yparxei xroniko periqwrio;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, oi dhmoi poy qa zhthsoyn organikes qeseis qa enisxyqoyn apo thn kybernhsh gia na kalycoyn kai ayta ta ejoda;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei enas proypologismos ton opoio gnwrizete. Kaqe enas prepei na kinhqei sta plaisia toy proypologismoy toy. Ean epilejei ton proypologismo toy na ton jodecei me tropo spatalo, antilambaneste oti kai o dhmarxos einai ekteqeimenos kai oi polites toy sygkekrimenoy dhmoy den exoyn wfelhqei apo ton spatalo tropo diaxeirishs toy dhmarxoy. Exei dhladh eyqynh. Den yparxei ena tameio to opoio einai gemato kai bgazei kaqe toso lefta kai dinei stoys dhmarxoys kai stoys koinotarxes h sta Ypoyrgeia. O Ypoyrgos exei eyqynh apenanti sto Ellhniko Dhmosio kai prospaqei na ftiajei ta pragmata etsi, wste na mhn jodeyei oloena kai perissotera xrhmata. H kybernhsh ayth exei kanei mia prospaqeia na mazecei, na noikokyrecei ta oikonomika. Apo thn allh pleyra, antistoixh prospaqeia prepei na kanoyn kai oloi oi dhmosioi organismoi kai fysika kai h Topikh Aytodioikhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Me ayto poy lete twra dikaiologeite toys dhmarxoys poy kanoyn aytes tis epoxikes proslhceis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqoloy. Ma einai politikh prajh ayto poy egine.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apo th mia den mporoyn na kalycoyn tis organikes qeseis gia na paroyn ypallhloys kai bazoyn apo ``to paraqyro'' gia na kalyfqoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqoloy den to dikaiologw, einai mia politikh prajh ayto to opoio egine. Kai h politikh prajh einai oti proslambanoyn epoxikoys gia 8 mhnes, ekmetalleyontai ayta poy elega prohgoymenws, toys exoyn dhladh se omhria kai den zhtoyn thn organikh qesh poy qa toys epilysei ta problhmata. Giati den th zhtoyn;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai poios qa thn plhrwsei; Afoy den exoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanoyme, oti yparxei proypologismos. Katarxas sas parakalw poly kai sas proskalw kai sas prokalw na mpeite sta arxeia toy Ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn apo tote poy egine to programma QHSEAS, an den me apata h mnhmh moy, na deite tis enisxyseis poy yparxoyn se dhmoys. Oles oi enisxyseis poy exoyme dei ta teleytaia dyo xronia einai megalyteres se pososta apo enisxyseis sto parelqon. Den einai ta pragmata etsi apla ``den exoyn''. Yparxoyn poly perissotera xrhmata poy doqhkan se dhmoys kai ta eidate. Edw malista eidame kai to fainomeno na mas kathgorei h antipoliteysh giati dwsame perissotera xrhmata se para polloys dhmoys legontas, kat` aytoys, oti egine gia politikh skopimothta. Den mporei na isxyoyn kai ta dyo. H dwsame xrhmata kai yparxoyn stoys dhmoys h den dwsame. Ena apo ta dyo.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Qa hqela to sxolio ths kybernhshs gia ta gegonota sthn Agia Sofia kai qa hqela na maqw an qa ginei kapoia energeia se diplwmatiko epipedo kai an qa teqei to sygkekrimeno gegonos sth syzhthsh poy qa ginei ton Dekembrio sth Synodo Koryfhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa synennohqw me to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn kai qa sas apanthsw.

POYLIDOY: Symplhrwmatika na rwthsw ean exete kapoio sxolio gia to epeisodio poy egine sto Aggliko sxoleio sthn Kypro me to jylofortwma Toyrkokypriwn maqhtwn apo koykoyloforoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw to sygkekrimeno peristatiko kai qelw na to shmeiwsw, wstoso h opoiadhpote askhsh bias antikeitai kai mas briskei antiqetoys se mia Dhmokratia.

SIDERHS: Qa epanelqw ston sympaqh k. Tsitoyridh. Exei ginei kapoia meleth gia to qema ths prolhptikhs iatrikhs. Yparxei o kindynos o kosmos, gia na mhn plhrwsei, na mhn paei na koitaxtei. Ayto shmainei oti den qa labei gnwsh asqeneiwn poy einai en th genesei toys. Opote to kostos ths qerapeias qa einai poly megalytero apo to kostos ths prolhchs. Exei ginei meleth h einai mia apofash poy etsi thn phre;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na pw tipota perissotero. Nomizw oti exoyme pei para polla gia to qema. Ean eixa kati perissotero qa sas to elega.

NASOPOYLOS: Kat` oysian me kalyce o synadelfos me thn erwthsh. Ayto hqela na rwthsw: To qema twn prolhptikwn ejetasewn exei teqei gia thn Politeia (den akoygetai) ekastote kybernhsh, polles fores sto parelqon kai exoyn katalhjei oti eynoei ta tameia telikws giati kerdizoyn apo th noshleia poy meiwnetai dioti prolabainoyn...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pisteyw oti ginetai polys qorybos kai oti en telei ayta poy exei pei o k. Tsitoyridhs qa ta deite sthn prajh. Ara den qa exoyme ola ayta ta problhmata ta opoia eikazei o kaqenas apo esas. Den sas adikw, apo thn pleyra sas kanete th doyleia sas.

NASOPOYLOS: Hqela apla na rwthsw giati anoije tote ayto ``to paraqyro''. Na dextw oti h apofash mporei kai na mhn erqei pote, mporei na mhn exei tis synhqismenes prolhptikes ejetaseis. Ayto ``to paraqyro'' ti nohma eixe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na sas pw tipota perissotero gia to qema.

KAKALHS: Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti aytes oi peiqarxikes kyrwseis poy epiblhqhkan stoys astynomikoys poy symmeteixan ston agrio jylodarmo toy 24xronoy Kyprioy spoydasth, leitoyrgoyn apotreptika gia thn epanalhch paromoiwn peristatikwn; Kai ena deytero erwthma: Poios elegxei telika; Jerei h kybernhsh poios elegxei toys koykoyloforoys astynomikoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa arxisw apo to deytero erwthma. Qa parakalesw poly na mhn xrhsimopoioyme ekfraseis poy einai men barygdoypes alla einai kai baries kai pisteyw oti adikoyn.

KAKALHS: Wstoso alhqines.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Menw sthn epishmansh thn opoia ekana xqes: Dekades xiliades astynomikwn ypallhlwn se ayto ton topo doyleyoyn gia thn asfaleia toy Ellhna polith, gia th zwh toy, gia thn perioysia toy. Memonwmena peristatika pantote katadikasthkan kai katadikazontai. Sto prwto skelos ths erwthsews sas qa pw aplws oti se kaqe eynomoymenh Politeia, h timwria einai prajh poy problepetai apo nomoys kai kanonismoys. Den qa sxoliasw ayto poy qelete eseis gia to megeqos ths timwrias. H timwria omws, ayth kaq` ayth, leei polla.

" Ayrio, Paraskeyh 24 Noembrioy, den qa pragmatopoihqei h enhmerwsh twn Politikwn Syntaktwn logw ths syzhthshs pro hmerhsias diatajews sth Boylh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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