Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-06-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 21 Ioynioy 2006

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

Eisagwgika, qa kanw mia syntomh anafora, ws sxolio ths kybernhshs: Gnwrizete poly kala oti, prin apo ligh wra, oloklhrwqhke h paroysiash toy prosxedioy nomoy, to opoio exei proetoimasei to ypoyrgeio Paideias gia ta qemata poy aforoyn th domh kai leitoyrgia twn Anwtatwn Ekpaideytikwn Idrymatwn ths xwras mas. Paroysiasthke to qesmiko plaisio. Aytes einai oi protaseis ths kybernhshs.

Exoyme dhlwsei epaneilhmmenws oti epi aytwn twn protasewn, epi toy prosxedioy, qa ginei ektenhs dialogos, gia oso xrono xreiastei, etsi wste na katalhjoyme apo koinoy, me thn eyryterh dynath synainesh, opws akribws eixame desmeytei. Sas qymizw oti ws Antipoliteysh tonizame oti sta qemata ths Paideias xreiazetai h eyryterh dynath synainesh se ena neo nomo poy qa orizei to qesmiko plaisio gia th leitoyrgia twn AEI. H prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs einai jekaqarh. Oi protaseis epishs einai jekaqares. Apexoyn poly, opws qa diapistwsete, apo ta diafora poy kata kairoys eipwqhkan kaq` yperbolhn kai xwris na yparxei kanena stoixeio apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs. Einai protaseis oi opoies qa bohqhsoyn oxi mono sto dialogo -poy epimenw oti qa einai dialogos anoixtos se oloys kai ejantlhtikos- alla qa bohqhsoyn sto na exei pleon kai h leitoyrgia twn dikwn mas AEI ekeino to qesmiko plaisio poy qa sthrijei mia poreia, se eyrwpaiko epipedo, ajiozhleyth, opws einai hdh ajiozhleyth h poreia toy dhmosioy panepisthmioy sthn Ellada se sxesh me to dynamiko toy. Ajiozhleyth metajy kai twn allwn panepisthmiwn ths E.E.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Den exei dieykrinistei se sxesh me to dialogo poy eipate oti qa einai ejantlhtikos. H k. Giannakoy exei pei oti to nomosxedio qa mpei sthn Olomeleia ths Boylhs. Ayto shmainei oti qa paei h chfish toy meta to Septembrio h mporei na einai sthn Olomeleia ths Boylhs kata th diarkeia twn mhnwn toy qeroys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den prokeitai na aifnidiasoyme, poy shmainei oti o ejantlhtikos dialogos -opws antilambaneste- den teleiwnei se ena h se dyo mhnes. Qa einai poly perissotero. Kata synepeia, h apanthsh einai pws qa eimaste meta to fqinopwro.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, milate twra gia dialogo poy qa krathsei kai qa einai ektenhs. Eseis den hsastan poy legate oti egine dialogos ektenhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

SIDERHS: Ti einai ayto poy allaje kai prin apo 15 meres den krinate thn anagkaiothta dialogoy kai twra th dexeste;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw an qa prolaboyme sth diarkeia toy briefing na moy feroyn oi synergates moy to briefing ths 13hs Ioynioy gia na diabasete akribws th diatypwsh poy sas ekana, apantwntas se erwthsh. Eipa, loipon, jekaqara tote oti h prwth fash toy dialogoy oloklhrwqhke. Htan enas dialogos o opoios dihrkese ena etos. Meta thn prwth fash toy dialogoy, ekeino poy kaname htan na ftiajoyme to prosxedio nomoy. Kai epi toy prosxedioy nomoy arxizoyme th dhmosia diaboyleysh. Ara, loipon, ayto poy eipa prin apo 10-15 hmeres einai akribws ayto poy sas epanalambanw kai twra kai poy den exei sxesh bebaia me ayto poy me rwthsate eseis.

SIDERHS: Eipate oti grafontan diafora xwris stoixeia. Exete thn entypwsh oti oi dhmosiografoi apo th fantasia toys ta grafoyn ayta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw kamia entypwsh, exw bebaiothta gia to pws leitoyrgei h dhmosiografia sthn Ellada meta apo 20 xronia empeirias.

BLAXOS: Lete gia dhmosia diaboyleysh. Epeidh akoysa tis protaseis ths k. Giannakoy kai moy fanhkan logikes, toylaxiston se emena, eseis se poio shmeio eiste diateqeimenos na ypoxwrhsete, h kybernhsh ennow, h na allajete kati apo ayta ta opoia proteinei h k. Giannakoy; Poio einai dhladh to orio ths dhmosias diaboyleyshs poy exete balei ws kybernhsh, prokeimenoy na ikanopoihsete to stoxo sas gia th metarryqmish, alla na ikanopoihsete kai aytoys poy einai antiqetoi me ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se opoia dhmosia protash kineitai entos toy plaisioy ths logikhs kai h opoia qa bohqhsei wste na kalytereysei h poiothta ths leitoyrgias twn AEI. Qelw na pw, me aformh thn erwthsh sas, oti to prosxedio nomoy ths kybernhshs, egine dhmosia gnwsto kai perimenoyme apo oloys osoi metexoyn se ayth th dhmosia diaboyleysh na kanoyn dhmosia tis dikes toys protaseis. Gi` ayto to logo eipe hdh h k. Giannakoy oti sto site toy ypoyrgeioy Paideias kai Qrhskeymatwn qa yparxei eidikos topos opoy qa katatiqentai kai qa dhmosieyontai, qa anartwntai dhladh, oles oi protaseis poy qa ginoyn apo toys symmetexontes se ayth th dhmosia diaboyleysh. Elpizw na mhn einai genikes kai aoristes, alla poly sygkekrimenes.

PEPONHS: Htan toso dyskolo ayto to prosxedio na doqei sth dhmosiothta prin apo ena mhna, opote htan poly piqanon na apofeyxqoyn oles aytes oi antidraseis h yperboles, opws tis xarakthrisate eseis, na xaqei mia ejetastikh periodos, na katajodeytei o kosmos kai na pane oi ejetaseis to Septembrio; Ton Aygoysto syzhtoyn polla panepisthmia na tis arxisoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mplekete dyo diaforetika pragmata metajy toys. Se o,ti afora tis apofaseis twn foithtwn na kanoyn katalhceis, fantazomai oti tis sebeste. Mporei na mhn symfwneite h na mhn symfwnw, alla fantazomai oti sebomaste to dikaiwma na apofasisoyn. Etsi den einai;

PEPONHS: Bebaiws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kata synepeia, an apofasisan kata pleiochfia, opws epiballei h Dhmokratia sthn opoia zoyme, den mporw na kanw kanena sxolio. An apofasisan oi meiochfies me alloys tropoys poy den gnwrizw egw, pali den qa kanw kanena sxolio. Se o,ti afora to prwto skelos toy erwthmatos sas, exw apanthsei filosofika, otan moy teqhke erwthsh me to ``ean'', legontas oti ``espeiran to ``ean'' kai ekeino den fytrwse''. Me to ``ean'' den ginetai oyte politikh, oyte praktikh, oyte kaqhmerinh antimetwpish twn problhmatwn. H kybernhsh jekinhse, prin apo ena xrono kai pleon, me dialogo. Ti pio dhmokratiko, ti pio eleyqero, ti pio shmantiko sth Dhmokratia mas, na jekinhsei me dialogo gia ena qema, opws einai ayto ths Paideias; Ti pio ajiopisto se sxesh me tis proeklogikes mas desmeyseis, me ayta poy legame sth diarkeia ths periodoy poy eimaste sthn Antipoliteysh, oti qa kaname ejantlhtiko dialogo, epidiwkontas thn eyryterh dynath synainesh. Kai ftanoyme na yperboyme kai ayto to stadio kai afoy exoyme etoimasei ena prosxedio nomoy, na erqoyme kai na poyme na ginei nea diaboyleysh epi toy prosxedioy nomoy, akribws epeidh qewroyme oti einai poly shmantiko to qema.

PEPONHS: Dyo epishmanseis ep` aytoy: Oi katalhceis eixan kapoia aitia@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poia aitia; Qelete na moy peite, gia na doyme ean exoyme ektimhsei to idio@

PEPONHS: Ayta ta opoia dierrean oti pane na ginoyn sto xwro ths Anwtaths Paideias@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na sas diakocw kai na sas pw@

PEPONHS: Kai zhtoysan aposyrsh gia kati to opoio diakinoyntan, htan mia perirreoysa katastash kai h doyleia ths kybernhshs einai na prolabainei tetoies katastaseis. Gi` ayto den dieblepe h kybernhsh oti kati paei na ginei sta panepisthmia kai qa eprepe h idia na parembei kai na ta stamathsei ayta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh ekane shmera gnwstes tis protaseis ths, to diko ths prosxedio nomoy. Ara, loipon, einai logiko na anarwthqei kapoios: Afoy h kybernhsh den eixe kanei gnwstes tis protaseis ths, poioi einai ekeinoi poy ypokinoysan tis katalhceis kai ti symferonta ejyphretoysan; Skefqeite ligo ayto poy sas lew. Den exei gnwstopoihsei h kybernhsh tis protaseis ths gia to nomo poy qelei na ftiajei kai hdh kapoioi, ek twn proterwn, exoyn kanei katalhceis epi th basei twn protasewn poy qa ginoyn. Ayto, an mh ti allo, sto dhmokratiko dialogo, dhlwnei oti yparxei prokatalhch. Opoios, loipon, proserxetai me prokatalhch, antilambaneste oti kanei laqh.

PAPADHMHTRIOY: H kybernhsh, poioys qewrei oti htan ypokinhtes twn katalhcewn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa kanw kamia peraiterw anafora. Prohgoymenws, eqesa dyo oroys: Ean oi apofaseis elhfqhsan me pleiochfia h ean den elhfqhsan. Ayta einai qemata twn foithtwn. Sebomai to foithtiko kinhma, opws to sebomaste oloi kai stis apofaseis aytes toy foithtikoy kinhmatos den prokeitai na ypeiselqoyme.

GKOYTZANHS: Yparxei mia anakoloyqia. Afoy ginotan ena xrono dialogos metajy twn endiaferomenwn, twn ekproswpwn twn foithtwn, twn kaqhghtwn k.lp., ekeinoi gnwrizan peripoy tis idees toy ypoyrgeioy kai epi th basei aytwn, kinhtopoihqhkan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy, gia na leme ta pragmata me to onoma toys kai na blepoyme katamata thn alhqeia kai mhn ypotimate kanenan, oyte toys eaytoys sas: Poio htan to prwto aithma se aytes tis katalhceis;

BLAXOS: H aposyrsh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Htan h den htan ``oxi sta idiwtika panepisthmia'', opws ta anaferoyn;

GKOYTZANHS: Ejakoloyqei na einai ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na moy peite, se poio shmeio toy prosxedioy nomoy aytoy anaferetai to mh kratiko panepisthmio; Poyqena.

GKOYTZANHS: Den to gnwrizw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, miso lepto, ofeilete na gnwrizete oti ayto exei na kanei me to Syntagma, den exei na kanei me nomo. Epishs, ofeiloyme oloi na gnwrizoyme -oxi mono eseis- oti einai to arqro 16 toy Syntagmatos poy orizei to xarakthra ths panepisthmiakhs ekpaideyshs sthn Ellada. Ofeiloyn oloi na gnwrizoyn, loipon, oti an emplekoyn to ena qema me to allo, mallon prospaqoyn na paraplanhsoyn thn koinh gnwmh. Ti sxesh exei to mh kratiko panepisthmio me to qesmiko plaisio ths leitoyrgias twn AEI; Kamia. Ara, loipon, epanalambanw, efoson h kybernhsh den eixe kanei akomh tis protaseis ths, efoson dhladh den eixe dwsei to prosxedio nomoy, to na speysoyn kapoioi kai na antidrasoyn, mhpws aplws dhlwnei prokatalhch;

SIDERHS: Elate k. Ekproswpe, pws mas ta lete etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto einai erwthsh;

SIDERHS: Oxi. Qelw na pw, eipate oti jeroyme pws leitoyrgei h dhmosiografia sthn Ellada. Den exw kamia diaqesh na thn yposthrijw. Apo thn allh, jeroyme kai pws leitoyrgei h politikh. Jeroyme oti dioxeteyontan oi qeseis gia to sxedio nomoy se filikoys dhmosiografoys h se dhmosiografoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai jerete, epishs, oti diaceysthkan ta peri diaforwn nomosxediwn, opws allwste fainetai kai sthn paroysiash toy shmerinoy prosxedioy.

SIDERHS: Den diaceysthkan, apla, kanete pisw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete sxhmatisei kapoia apoch. Den mporw na sas thn allajw o,ti kai na sas pw. Ekeino poy exw na sas pw einai: Scripta manent.

PAPAMIXAHL: Se ekeino to dialogo poy mas eipate oti eixe ginei apo thn kybernhsh apo tis arxes xronoy, eixan apoxwrhsei, ean den kanw laqos, kai oi foreis kai ta kommata. Ara, ayto to prosxedio den exei prokycei mesa apo mia synainetikh diadikasia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai alhqeia oti eixan apoxwrhsei kapoioi. Ayto,epishs, kati dhloi. O dialogos ginetai gia na katalhjoyme se protaseis. Akomh kai otan diafwnei kapoios me ayta poy leei o apenanti toy, to na apoxwrei shmainei oti h den endiaferetai h aplws meteixe mono kai mono gia na dhmioyrghsei kapoies entypwseis. Den qa pw tipote sygkekrimeno kai gia kanenan. Ekeino poy qa pw einai oti ofeiloyme oloi, efoson sebomaste ola ayta ta paidia poy agwnioyn gia to ayrio, efoson sebomaste toys foithtes poy agwnioyn gia thn poiothta twn spoydwn toys, efoson sebomaste tis desmeyseis poy exoyme enanti ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, na proselqoyme se ena dialogo ston opoio, me thn eyryterh dynath synainesh, qa broyme lyseis se ayta ta problhmata.

Kanw mia aparaithth dieykrinish gia osoys tyxon den to gnwrizoyn: Otan eipa ``efoson sebomaste tis desmeyseis poy exoyme apenanti sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh'', einai desmeyseis poy synapofasisame. Exoyn na kanoyn me thn ajiopistia toy ellhnikoy panepisthmioy, me thn ajiologhsh toy ellhnikoy ptyxioy. Exoyn na kanoyn me thn poiothta toy kai thn poiothta ths parexomenhs ekpaideyshs. Eipa sthn arxh -kai to pisteyw, to gnwrizete oloi sas- oti exoyme ajiologotato episthmoniko dynamiko. Deite ekeinoys toys foithtes poy aristeyoyn, prwteyoyn, pane poly kala stis spoydes toys, feygoyn sto ejwteriko kai oysiastika aporrofwntai apo alles xwres se alloys mhxanismoys, eite se anwnymes etaireies, se idiwtikes epixeirhseis, eite se epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy allwn xwrwn. Se ayto, to ajiologotato loipon, episthmoniko dynamiko ajizei ena akomh kalytero plaisio leitoyrgias twn A.E.I.

KAKALHS: Epeidh diakrinate pali shmera ypokinhtes stis kinhtopoihseis twn foithtwn, hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Prwton, oi qeseis ths diorismenhs Epitrophs Sofwn den aphxoysan kai qeseis ths kybernhshs; Kai deyteron, oi qeseis gia idiwtika panepisthmia den einai qesh ths kybernhshs poy thn eipe o Prwqypoyrgos apo to Genarh hdh, htan kai proeklogikh qesh ths kybernhshs bebaia, alla den eixe pei apo to Genarh o Prwqypoyrgos th qesh gia ta idiwtika panepisthmia; Mhpws, dhladh, ypokinhtes twn katalhcewn einai h politikh ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na moy breite estw mia dhlwsh poy na mila h kybernhsh gia idiwtika panepisthmia; Mia, oxi polles kai qa apanthsw eyxaristws se ola ta erwthmata sas.

KAKALHS: Otan leme ``mh kratika mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmia'' einai diaforetiko pragma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: As gnwrizoyme loipon oti h ellhnikh glwssa den einai mono ploysia gia th myqoplasia, gia to wraio myqistorhma ths, gia th filologia. H ellhnikh glwssa einai ploysia kai se nohmata. Ara, loipon, otan eseis xrhsimopoieite mia lejh poy exei allo nohma apo ayth poy xrhsimopoihse o Prwqypoyrgos, tote parafrazete to nohma twn oswn eipe o Prwqypoyrgos.

KAKALHS: Peite mas ti qelei na pei o Prwqypoyrgos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa kanw ayqentikh ermhneia twn dhlwsewn toy Prwqypoyrgoy giati einai safes ayto poy leei. H Nea Dhmokratia, loipon, xronia twra -kai ws antipoliteysh kai ws kybernhsh- exei milhsei gia ta mh kratika panepisthmia. Exei milhsei gia thn enisxysh toy qesmoy toy dhmosioy panepisthmioy. Kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. Kamia sxesh ayto poy lete eseis me ayto poy exei pei h Nea Dhmokratia.

KAKALHS: Kai ti einai ta mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mh kratika panepisthmia mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra. Einai jekaqaro.

KAKALHS: Ti shmainei ayto; Den shmainei prasino fws gia ta idiwtika panepisthmia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan leme ``mh kratika mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra'' einai kati teleiws diaforetiko apo ta idiwtika panepisthmia. Ofeilete na gnwrizete oti kai nomika einai diaforetiko kai politika einai diaforetiko kai praktika einai diaforetiko. Dhladh, stis HPA kai se xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs yparxoyn mh kratika mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra panepisthmia kai yparxoyn kai idiwtika panepisthmia. Einai dyo teleiws diaforetika pragmata. Emeis exoyme taxqei, epi xronia twra, yper toy enos monteloy.

KAKALHS: Apo o,ti eida, oi protaseis poy periexontai sto prosxedio hdh exoyn aporrifqei apo toys foithtes. Hdh, einai antiqetoi oi foithtes. Exoyn ekfrasei thn antiqesh toys se aytes tis protaseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pote prolaban kiolas; Prin apo mia-miamish wra anakoinwqhkan.

KAKALHS: Akribws gi` ayto. Diabebaiwsate oti den htan kati kainoyrgio. Apo kairo htan gnwsta. Aytes oi protaseis, epeidh tygxanoyn ths kaqolikhs antiqeshs twn foithtwn, h kybernhsh skeftetai na aposyrei to nomosxedio mprosta sthn kaqolikh antidrash twn foithtwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh kateqese prosxedio nomoy prin apo miamish wra. Kalei oloys ekeinoys poy qeloyn pragmatika na beltiwqei h poiothta ths parexomenhs ekpaideyshs sthn Ellada, na symmetexoyn se enan eyrytato dialogo. Ean symmetexoyn, apodeiknyoyn kai sthn prajh stoys Ellhnes polites oti kaloproaireta kanoyn thn opoia kritikh. Ean den symmetexoyn, qa moy epitrecete na pw oti apodeiknyoyn sthn prajh stoys Ellhnes polites oti kanoyn kritikh gia thn kritikh kai den endiaferontai gia thn anabaqmish ths parexomenhs ekpaideyshs sthn Ellada.

PALAIOLOGOS: Mhpws aisqanetai h kybernhsh, epeidh janafernei to prosxedio gia thn paideia, oti biasthke na ekmaieysei th synainesh twn foithtwn kai ths panepisthmiakhs koinothtas, kaqws einai gnwsto oti h syzhthsh ayth diarkoyse epi ena xrono; Kai telika anagkasthke katw apo endexomenws eite thn paraplanhsh twn foithtwn, eite gia kapoioys alloys logoys na parei pisw to prohgoymeno, to arxiko ths sxedio; Anarwtiemai dhladh ean olh ayth h kinhsh htan bebiasmenh strathgika kai politika mono kai mono gia na ekmaieysete th synainesh kai twn endiaferomenwn forewn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poia kinhsh gia na katalabw ti ennoeite;

PALAIOLOGOS: H kinhsh ths aposyrshs toy arxikoy sxedioy gia to opoio ginotan syzhthsh kai ths kataqeshs epishma toy prosxedioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas rwthsw: Sta sobara moy kanete ayth thn erwthsh;

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, bebaiws. Giati qewreite oti einai asobarh h erwthsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sobara moy kanete mia erwthsh gia aposyrsh arxikoy sxedioy; Exete kapoio arxiko sxedio, wste na moy peite oti na ayto einai to xarti kai to aposyrate;

PALAIOLOGOS: To arxiko sxedio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw, sto metajy, exw ta stoixeia, gia ta opoia milhsa sthn arxh apantwntas sthn erwthsh toy k. Siderh. Dhladh, ti akribws dhlwsa prin apo liges hmeres, sygkekrimena stis 13 Ioynioy, se aythn edw thn aiqoysa, opoy elega ta idia pragmata poy lew kai twra: Sta qemata ayta o dialogos dihrkese peripoy ena xrono, katalhjame se mia seira protasewn.

Aytes oi protaseis ginontai prosxedio nomoy. To prosxedio dinetai sth dhmosiothta thn epomenh ebdomada. Qa akoloyqhsei mia nea diaboyleysh gia oso xrono xreiastei k.lp. @O,ti akribws eipa prin apo ligh wra, to exw pei kai prin apo mia ebdomada.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh qewrhsate mallon asobarh thn erwthsh moy, tote o dialogos epi ena xrono@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, eipa an me rwtate sobara. Den eipa oti to periexomeno ths erwthshs sas den einai sobaro.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epi ena xrono, epi poioy sxedioy ginotan aytos o dialogos; Toylaxiston, ton dialogo ton opoio eixan arnhqei ta alla kommata. Den yphrxe kapoio sygkekrimeno yliko se dhmioyrgikh ypostash, gia to opoio ginotan dialogos; Ginotan dialogos peri onoy skias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O dialogos ``peri onoy skias'' einai enas xarakthrismos poy qa tairiaze mallon ston erwthma, para ston dialogo.

PALAIOLOGOS: Endexomenws na tairiaze kai sthn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw, epeidh isws den to katalabate: Otan ginetai dialogos, aytos o dialogos ginetai me polloys kai diaforetikoys tropoys. H kybernhsh exei protimhsei se ola ta qemata enan tropo: Proserxetai, kataqetei kapoies protaseis, kapoies apoceis, akoyei tis protaseis twn allwn, me bash ayth th syzhthsh poy diarkei oso xrono xreiastei kai wrimazei kai dhmioyrgei ena prosxedio. Ayto akribws synebh. Epi ena xrono den proshlqame legontas ``qa ginei ayto kai den kanoyme se tipota pisw''. Emeis proshlqame -paroti exoyme programma jekaqaro gia thn paideia, chfismeno apo toys Ellhnes polites- legontas aytes einai oi protaseis mas, ayto einai to programma mas. Elate na akoysoyme kai tis dikes sas protaseis. Kapoioi protimhsan na apoxwrhsoyn. Kapoioi alloi protimhsan na kanoyn kapoies protaseis. Ayto olo, loipon, ginetai ena prosxedio. Kai epi aytoy toy prosxedioy, anti na pame sth Boylh kai na poyme ayto einai kai chfizetai, janaerxomaste na poyme oti, epi toy prosxedioy, anoigoyme mia dhmosia diaboyleysh. Ayto to opoio ekane h kybernhsh einai, an mh ti allo, ayto poy qa eprepe na perimenei kaqe poliths se ena poly megalo qema, apo mia sobarh, ajiopreph kybernhsh. Einai safes;

PALAIOLOGOS: Safes. Ayto poy den katalabainw einai to ejhs: Oti exei doqei pros ta ejw endexomenws mesw hmwn twn MME oti h kybernhsh anagkasthke katw apo th diogkoymenh dysareskeia h diamartyria twn endiaferomenwn eite foithtwn, eite ths panepisthmiakhs koinothtas na parei pisw, toylaxiston ws pros to epipedo twn entypwsewn tis arxikes ths protaseis, aytes poy kateqese arxika sto dialogo. Ayth h entypwsh nomizw oti den einai esfalmenh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, molis prohgoymenws, sthn erwthsh twn synadelfwn sas, eixa thn akribws antiqeth topoqethsh: Oti h kybernhsh den phre tipota pisw. Ayta poy elege edw kai poly kairo, ta fernei me to prosxedio nomoy. Epeidh yparxei mia dixostasia. Ekeino to opoio lew apla kai jekaqara einai: H kybernhsh kateqese ena prosxedioy nomoy me bash to dialogo poy dihrkese enan xrono. Epi toy prosxedioy nomoy kaloyme kaqe kaloproaireto Ellhna polith, o opoios metexei sta pragmata, eite metexontas se enan panepisthmiako forea, to idio to panepisthmio, toys foithtes, na arxisoyn th syzhthsh epi aytoy toy prosxedioy. Na kataqesoyn tis protaseis toys. Oi protaseis olwn qa paroyn dhmosiothta, gia na exei kaqe Ellhnas poliths th dynatothta na sygkrinei. H kybernhsh, dhladh, hrqe kai eipe aytes einai oi protaseis moy. Ayto einai to prosxedio nomoy poy kataqetw egw ws kybernhsh. Gia na doyme, ti exei na kataqesei opoios einai dipla, paradipla h apenanti; Onomastika, jekaqara na pei o kaqenas thn apoch toy, thn protash toy.

PEPONHS: Bebaia, eiste edw san ekproswpos ths kybernhshs alla qa sas kanw mia proswpikh erwthsh kai an qelete moy apantate.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mhn thn kanete, giati se proswpikes erwthseis den apantw.

PEPONHS: As thn kanw egw. Exete prosbaseis, kales prosbaseis, sto xwro ths Anwtaths Ekpaideyshs. Pisteyete, loipon, eseis oti oi meiochfies kinhtopoihsan olh thn akadhmaikh koinothta kai einai shmera -epi ena mhna peripoy- stoys dromoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi bebaia. Giati me rwtate; Den to pisteyw kaqoloy ayto poy lete. Egw eipa kai prohgoymenws oti oi foithtes apofasisan, kata pleiochfia twn parontwn stis syneleyseis toys, na proxwrhsoyn se katalhceis. Symplhrwsa omws oti aytes oi katalhceis eginan kyriws giati yparxei mia proseggish orismenwn se sxesh me allages poy anaferontai sto Syntagma kai oxi se ayto to prosxedio nomoy. Kapoioi, loipon, qelhsan na mplejoyn dyo pragmata metajy toys. E, den mplekontai. Einai dyo diaforetika pragmata. Epishs symplhrwsa oti oi kaloproairetoi den pane kateyqeian se mia katalhch. Erxontai kai syzhtoyn. Qa moy pei kapoios: ``Ma, dhladh, ti mas lete; Oti einai kakoproairetoi aytoi poy ekanan tis katalhceis;''. Oxi. Qa pw oti einai h kaka plhroforhmenoi h agwnioyntes -poy einai agwnioyntes oi perissoteroi foithtes- alla se laqos kateyqynsh. H kybernhsh kataqetei sygkekrimenes protaseis. Kaloyme oloys se ena dialogo, se mia anoixth dhmosia diaboyleysh, oso pio dhmokratikh, oso pio eleyqerh ginetai. Kai kaloyme oloys -ayto to lew gia trith fora giati exei th shmasia toy- na kataqesoyn apoceis. Antiprotaseis epi aytoy toy prosxedioy nomoy; Sygkekrimenes apoceis omws.

BLAXOS: Mia dieykrinish. Mas eipate oti qa kataqesete to nomosxedio sthn olomeleia ths Boylhs meta to fqinopwro. Ayto to ``meta to fqinopwro'' to entopizete prin h meta tis dhmotikes ekloges;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Hdh htan poly ayto to opoio eipa. Me rwthsate, gia to ean protiqemeqa na to perasoyme sta qerina tmhmata ths Boylhs h oxi. Sas eipa oxi. Kai symplhrwnw twra oti o monos poy perase megaloys nomoys gia thn Paideia sta qerina tmhmata, htan h prohgoymenh kybernhsh, to PASOK. Emeis den qa to kanoyme. Einai dhladh aytoi oi idioi poy mas kathgoroyn emas shmera oti taxa pame sto qerino tmhma. Aytoi oi opoioi perasan ena swro nomoys sta qerina tmhmata.

BLAXOS: Oxi, lew an qa to syndesete ayto kai me tis dhmotikes ekloges gia na mh dhmioyrghqei entash proeklogika kai stoixisei sthn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. Den exei apofasistei sygkekrimenh hmeromhnia, giati ayto qa htan san na eixame jekaqarisei ek twn proterwn oti qa ginei gia 3,4,5 mhnes kai o,ti egine, egine kai ara proxwrame. Emeis leme: Osos xronos xreiastei, ejantlhtikh dhmosia diaboyleysh. Osos xronos xreiastei, shmeiwste to ayto.

GKOYTZANHS: Akoygontas sas olh ayth thn wra kai kalopista bebaiws, epeidh pantote pisteyw thn kybernhsh, moy dhmioyrghqhke h entypwsh oti oi kinhtopoihseis aytes poy eginan, eginan apo pleiochfies me erwthmatiko kai oti en telei oloi aytoi oi foithtes poy kinhtopoihqhkan, mallon den katalaban giati kinhtopoihqhkan, den katalaban giati efygan apo to dialogo, genikws oti den exoyn katalabei kai poly ti ginetai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Katarxas, to prwto sxolio: Kalws kanete kai pisteyete thn kybernhsh. Ofeilw na sas sygxarw gi` ayto. To deytero sxolio: Exw hdh apanthsei.

SIDERHS: Sto arqro 16, qa epimeinete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite; An qa epimeinoyme oti xreiazetai syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh; Ma exoyme kataqesei tis protaseis.

SIDERHS: Oxi, sto qema twn mh kerdoskopikwn panepisthmiwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H qesh mas einai: Mh kratika, mh kerdoskopika panepisthmia. Eytyxws poy einai qesh kai toy alloy megaloy kommatos ths Boylhs, toy PASOK. Pisteyw oti edw qa exoyme pragmatika mia allagh. An diabasete tis omilies toso toy Prwqypoyrgoy oso kai toy Arxhgoy ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs, qa deite giati xreiazetai na ginoyn aytes oi allages, aytes oi metarryqmiseis.

PEPONHS: Poios qa prosdiorisei to ``osos xronos xreiastei''; H kybernhsh, telika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Osos xronos xreiastei.

PEPONHS: Poios qa to prosdiorisei rwtw. Poios qa pei ``teleiwse o xronos'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Osos xronos xreiastei, ta leei ola. Osos einai o apaitoymenos xronos gia na oloklhrwqei ayth h dhmosia diaboyleysh.

BLAXOS: Dyo sxolia qelw na mas kanete. To ena einai gia thn MRB kai to allo gia thn apofash Erntogan na paei sthn katexomenh Kypro gia na parastei stis ekdhlwseis gia thn 32h epeteio ths eisbolhs. Epishmainw oti persi o k. Erntogan den eixe paei. Fetos fainetai oti epilegei na paei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw. Qa enhmerwqw kai qa kanw sxolio ayrio, gia na mhn probw se sxolio poy den qa exei praktikh apotypwsh. Se o,ti afora to prwto, gnwrizete oti apofeygw na sxoliazw dhmoskophseis. Qa hqela, loipon, me aformh to erwthma sas, na kanw ena syntomo sxolio, den qa kanw peraiterw anafores: Se dyskoles synqhkes xairomaste poy h pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, oxi aplws katanoei alla kai ektima tis prospaqeies ths kybernhshs sthn kateyqynsh twn metarryqmisewn Metarryqmiseis tis opoies allwste h idia pleiochfia twn politwn qewrei aparaithth gia to kalo toy topoy.

BLAXOS: Poies einai oi dyskoles synqhkes kyrie Ekproswpe; Ennoeite gia thn katastash sto xwro ths antipoliteyshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den einai toso prowqhmenh h dhlwsh moy.

GKOYTZANHS: Fantazomai oti qa exete dei to shmerino prwtoselido dhmosieyma twn ``NEWN'' poy exe mia fwtografia@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizw to dhmosieyma. O armodios yfypoyrgos Ygeias k. Kwnstantopoylos -an den to exei hdh kanei- qa dwsei synenteyjh Typoy, paradidontas stoys armodioys syntaktes ola ekeina ta stoixeia ta opoia anaferontai sto qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Anairoyn, dhladh, thn oysia toy dhmosieymatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai. Plhrws.

PEPONHS: Ayrio, an den kanw laqos, ekdidontai kai oi baseis twn Panellhniwn Ejetasewn. Exete kapoia eikona;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den gnwrizw. Aplws ekeino poy qa hqela na sxoliasw einai oti didontai ta apotelesmata pio grhgora apo alles fores kai ayto gia dyo logoys: Prwton, dioti exei arxisei kai leitoyrgei pio systhmatika h diadikasia ayth kai, deyteron, giati qymizw oti hdh einai tria maqhmata ligotera stis ejetaseis, katopin twn apofasewn poy eixe parei h kybernhsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ekeino poy hqela na rwthsw, se synexeia erwthshs synadelfoy, einai gia to mparaz twn toyrkikwn proklhsewn poy akoloyqhsan to prosfato eyrwpaiko Symboylio Koryfhs. Nomizw oti einai diakrito apo oloys ayto to mparaz. Den yparxei kapoio sxolio; Kai bebaiws me aformh -telos pantwn- to xqesino mhnyma toy k. Papoylia sthn Toyrkia, toso aysthro kai malista se plhrh, qa legame, diastash me tis apoceis toy k. Stefanopoyloy, toy prokatoxoy toy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs, opws gnwrizete den kanw pote sxolia. Gia to prwto: O Prwqypoyrgos sth synenteyjh poy edwse stis Bryjelles, rwthqhke gia paremferh qemata kai exei apanthsei. Qa meinw se ayta.

KAKALHS: H emmesh antiqesh toy k. Papoylia sthn parapomph twn ellhnotoyrkikwn diaforwn sth Xagh, poy brisketai se diaforopoihmeno mhkos kymatos apo tis topoqethseis ths kybernhshs, dhmioyrgei kapoio problhma, pisteyete, stis kinhseis ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oysiastika, emmesws moy zhtate na kanw sxolio gia tis dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias. Sebomai ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias, ton ektimw kai proswpika kai fysika oloi mas ektimoyme ton qesmo. Den qa kanw kanena sxolio.

BLAXOS: Einai shmantiko na mas peite an o Prwqypoyrgos gnwrize, an eixe enhmerwqei apo ton k. Papoylia oti qa kanei aytes tis dhlwseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn plaisia toy Syntagmatos, ta opoia orizoyn ayta. Kai bebaiws ayta exoyn thrhqei apolytws.

PALAIOLOGOS: H erwthsh moy afora twra thn ypogeia antiparaqesh poy yparxei metajy toy ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs kai toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs sth skia qa legame ths apodrashs toy gnwstoy kakopoioy Palaiokwsta. H shmerinh topoqethsh toy k. Papalhgoyra, se o,ti afora tis eyqynes, mallon se poio shmeio briskontai oi ereynes gia thn apodosh eyqynwn se sxesh me thn apodrash toy Palaiokwsta, frontise na parapemcei apla kai mono sto ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs. Kai ayto ektimhqhke, toylaxiston se mia prwth anagnwsh, ws aposeish twn eyqynwn toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs. To sxolio sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanena.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kanena;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn topoqethqei kai ta dyo ypoyrgeia. Mia ``ypogeia'', opws moy eipate ki eseis, antilhch me opoiodhpote dhmosio sxolio qa thn kanw egw dhmosia; Oxi. Den nomizw oti yparxei kati tetoio. Den nomizw oti yparxei kanenos eidoys antiparaqesh. Ektimw oti yparxei synergasia, gnwrizw oti yparxei synergasia. Ta dyo ypoyrgeia, oi dyo armodioi Ypoyrgoi exoyn milhsei gia to qema. Den exw na pw tipota perissotero.

·Ayrio, Pempth 22 Ioynioy, den qa pragmatopoihqei h enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn kai antapokritwn jenoy Typoy, logw ths pro Hmerhsias Diatajews syzhthshs sth Boylh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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