Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-10-31

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 31 Oktwbrioy 2005

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

H kybernhsh, sto strathgiko sxedio, to opoio exei anakoinwsei, proxwraei me staqera bhmata. Sas qymizw oti to epomeno bhma einai qemata poy aforoyn th sygkentrwsh twn MME kaqws epishs kai adeiodothseis sto radiothleoptiko topio. Me ejairesh tis adeiodothseis poy eginan prin apo merika xronia stoys radiofwnikoys staqmoys ths Aqhnas, to radiothleoptiko topio leitoyrgei para polla xronia, sxedon dyo dekaeties, xwris adeiodothseis apo thn ellhnikh Politeia.

Qa hqela epishs na sas anakoinwsw oti qa jekinhsei dialogos metajy twn endiaferomenwn forewn -kai fysika kai twn politikwn kommatwn- prokeimenoy na teqoyn epi taphtos ola ta zhthmata, dhladh qemata sygkentrwshs sto idiokthsiako kaqestws twn MME kai qemata adeiodothsewn sto radiothleoptiko topio. Perissoteres leptomereies qa eimai se qesh na sas dwsw tis prosexeis hmeres, meta thn chfish toy nomosxedioy gia to Basiko Metoxo sth Boylh.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, (den akoygetai) na doqei to ktirio sthn Panteio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa, me epistolh moy ston Antiprytanh toy Oikonomikoy Programmatismoy kai Anaptyjhs toy Panteioy Panepisthmioy ston k. Papadaskalopoylo, me hmeromhnia 24.10.2005. Moy eixe hdh steilei epistolh liges hmeres prin. Gia to istoriko toy pragmatos, qelw aplws na pw oti prin apo polloys mhnes, eixa synanthqei me ton Prytanh k. Papastamoy kai moy eixe qesei to qema twn ktiriakwn ypodomwn toy Panteioy Panepisthmioy, zhtwntas na parei to Panepisthmio to sygkekrimeno ktirio, opoy stegazontai oi yphresies ths Genikhs Grammateias Epikoinwnias kai Genikhs Grammateias Enhmerwshs. Tote, toy eixa pei oti qa anazhthsw lysh, mesw ths Kthmatikhs Etairias toy Dhmosioy kai efoson breqei lysh gia th metegkatastash toy prwhn Ypoyrgeioy Typoy kai nyn dyo Grammateiwn se allo xwro, den qa eixa kamia antirrhsh se synennohsh kai me to Ypoyrgeio Paideias na proxwrhsei mia diadikasia opws ayth poy hqele to Panepisthmio. Den breqhke tetoia lysh, oi anagkes htan piestikes kai eprepe na egkatastaqoyn h Genikh Grammateia Enhmerwshs kai h Genikh Grammateia Epikoinwnias sto ktirio to opoio jekinhse na kataskeyazetai apo to 1999. Epeidh akoysa kapoies aitiaseis peri asymbatothtas sth geitniash mias kratikhs yphresias kai enos Panepisthmioy qelw na epishmanw kati poy anefera kai sthn epistolh moy: Den antilambanomai to logo gia ton opoio h geitniash Panepisthmioy me kratikh yphresia apoteloyn sygkroyomenes xrhseis. To Panepisthmio einai enas xwros poy kineitai entos ths ellhnikhs Politeias. H synyparjh kratikhs yphresias me panepisthmiaka idrymata den einai asymbath. Idiaitera, otan h sygkekrimenh yphresia sxetizetai me thn enhmerwsh twn politwn, h opoia apotelei proypoqesh gia thn epitelesh toy roloy toy panepisthmiakoy qesmoy kai eyrytera gia thn poiothta ths Dhmokratias mas. Qa hqela na symplhrwsw oti h sygkekrimenh yphresia exei, epi makron xrono, synergasia me to tmhma twn MME toy Panteioy Panepisthmioy. Ayta hqela na pw. Elpizw oti h synergasia mas qa synexistei kai oi memonwmenes fwnes, poy akoygontai ayth th stigmh, den qa synexisoyn na yparxoyn otan katalaboyn to atopo toy aithmatos toys.

SIDERHS: Pws qa antimetwpisete to praktiko qema oti dipla yparxei asylo kai qa mporei na petane tis molotof mesa kai meta na katafeygoyn sto asylo; Qa arxisete mia diarkh katastash exqroprajiwn, thn opoia den qa mporesete na antimetwpisete para mono me poly dynamikes kai sklhres astynomikes lyseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To asylo, opws orqws eipate, isxyei gia ton panepisthmiako xwro. To asylo den apeileitai apo th Genikh Grammateia Epikoinwnias kai Genikh Grammateia Enhmerwshs. Qa hqela na symplhrwsw, oti gia na kataskeyastei ayto to ktirio jodeythkan peripoy 33 ekatommyria eyrw, xrhmata poy prohlqan apo toys Ellhnes forologoymenoys. Oloi, loipon, ofeiloyn na sebastoyn toys Ellhnes forologoymenoys, oi opoioi me ta xrhmata toys extisan ayth thn yphresia gia thn kalyterh enhmerwsh toy polith kai kyriws toy polith sto ejwteriko, giati opws gnwrizete, aytes oi yphresies parexoyn enhmerwsh gia thn Ellada sto ejwteriko. Epishs, swreyoyn eidhseis kai plhrofories gia th xwra apo to ejwteriko. En pash periptwsei h leitoyrgia twn dyo aytwn yphresiwn den mporei na qewrhqei asymbath.

BLAXOS: Lete oti cajate na breite lysh kai den brhkate. Se apostash 500 kai isws ligoterwn metrwn yparxei lysh. Yparxei ena poly megalo ktirio, apenanti apo to agalma Troyman, sth gwnia poy phgaineis gia to ``Magemeno Aylo'' to opoio pwleitai kai ejyphretoyse toys pantes: Kai esas kai emas kai toys jenoys antapokrites kai endexomenws kai toys ergazomenoys giati einai poly konta se stash toy metro. Kai akomh pwleitai to ktirio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws sas eipa, kinhqhka mesw ths Kthmatikhs Etairias toy Dhmosioy, prokeimenoy na breqei xwros o opoios qa mporoyse na ikanopoihsei oles tis anagkes -kai oi anagkes einai megales- twn dyo Grammateiwn. Den eyreqh tetoios xwros. Se kaqe periptwsh omws, epitrecte moy na epimeinw sto zhthma ths symbatothtas twn xrhsewn: To Panepisthmio kai oi Grammateies Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, opws kai kaqe kratikh yphresia mporei na synoreyoyn, mporei na geitniazoyn. Se kamia periptwsh den apeileitai to asylo. Exoyme polles periptwseis geitniasews sto kentro ths Aqhnas. To Kapodistriako Panepisthmio brisketai se xwro opoy poly konta toy yparxoyn polles dhmosies yphresies. Na mhn katafygw se alla paradeigmata apo to dieqnh xwro, opoy antistoixws oydeis dianohqhke na pei oti mia kratikh yphresia -kai malista mia kratikh yphresia opws ayth- me enan panepisthmiako xwro einai asymbates xrhshs ghs.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla oyte einai dynaton kai emeis na erxomaste gia na kanoyme erwthseis ston Kybernhtiko Ekproswpo kai na einai kyklwmeno olo to tetragwno me mat kai astynomikes dynameis, giati etsi qa ginetai apo edw kai pera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ofeilei kaneis na prostateysei ta xrhmata toy ellhnikoy laoy. Ofeilei na prostateysei th dhmosia perioysia. Yparxoyn memonwmenes fwnes -eytyxws liges- oi opoies pisteyoyn oti einai asymbates xrhshs.

KAKALHS: Einai telesidikh h apanthsh sas, oson afora thn egkatastash edw ths GGE-GGE, dhladh, exoyn pacei oi prospaqeies gia na anazhthqei allos xwros;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws eipa, para tis prospaqeies pollwn mhnwn, den eyreqh allh lysh, gi ayto den yparxei kapoios logos na syzhthsoyme peraiterw gia to qema.

KAKALHS: Oi ojymenes anagkes poy yparxoyn sto Panteio Panepisthmio gia aiqoyses didaskalias den ypologizontai apo thn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na rwthsete to Panepisthmio h to ypoyrgeio Paideias. Efoson yparxoyn anagkes apo to Panepisthmio, h kybernhsh qa frontisei na bohqhsei, wste na lyqoyn aytes oi anagkes. Einai, omws, dyo diaforetika qemata. Einai allo na exei anagkes ena Panepisthmio kai allo kapoioi oi opoioi einai foithtes h den einai -den to gnwrizw- na prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn problhmata sthn geitniash aytwn twn dyo yphresiwn.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Meta ta gnwsta gegonota sthn Kwnstantinoypolh me to qema toy Patriarxeioy kai toys ``gkrizoys lykoys'' kai meta tis emprhstikes dhlwseis Erntogan, oson afora thn telwneiakh enwsh kai to qema ths anagnwrishs ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias, dierwtwmai, eynoei ayth h katastash poy exei dhmioyrghqei, thn episkech toy Ellhna Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Toyrkia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora thn episkech, exei ginei dhmosia dhlwsh apo ton ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn. Oi diaboyleyseis gia ton orismo ths hmeromhnias toy tajidioy toy Ellhna Prwqypoyrgoy poy ginetai se antapodosh toy tajidioy toy Toyrkoy Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Aqhna, den exoyn oloklhrwqei kai synexizontai mesw ths diplwmatikhs odoy.

BLAXOS: Mporeite na mas peite kati;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas pw, kat arxas, oti h ypoyrgos Paideias k. Giannakoy epikoinwnhse me ton Patriarxh thn hmera poy eixame ta epeisodia ejw apo to Patriarxeio, apo omada ``gkrizwn lykwn''. Qelw, epishs, na epishmanw oti antistoixh epikoinwnia exei yparjei kai shmera apo ton yfypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Skandalakh. Oi logikes poy diepoyn -ean yparxoyn logikes- aytes tis omades einai aparadektes gia kaqe eynomoymenh dhmokratikh politeia. Epishs, qelw na ypenqymisw oti edw kai polla xronia, otan o Patriarxhs zhthse apo toys eyrwboyleytes na bohqhsoyn, wste na anoijei dialogos metajy toy Patriarxeioy kai toy Eyrwkoinoboylioy, h omada ths N.D. htan ekeinh h opoia amesws synainese. Espeyse de na organwsei, sto plaisio toy Eyrwpaikoy Laikoy Kommatos, enan dialogo, o opoios, gia enath xronia fetos, elabe xwra prin apo liges hmeres sthn Kwnstantinoypolh. Eimaste poly konta ston Patriarxh. Eimaste poly konta stoys problhmatismoys poy yparxoyn. Elpizw oti tetoioy eidoys memonwmenes energeies -opws aytes poy anaferqhkan prohgoymenws gia toys ``gkrizoys lykoys''- einai energeies poy apodokimazontai apo oloys.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Aytes oi dhlwseis kai ayta ta gegonota froneite oti eynooyn thn entajiakh poreia ths Toyrkias h sthn oysia thn frenaroyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mia mikrh omada, thn opoia xarakthrisa prohgoymenws, den mporei na apotelei basiko moxlo gia to ean qa entaxqei h oxi mia xwra sthn E.E. H Toyrkia krinetai. Kai krinetai me bash tis symfwnies poy exoyn ypografei mexri stigmhs, gia to pws, me poio tropo kai pote qa mporesei na entaxqei sthn E.E. efoson plhroi oles ekeines tis proypoqeseis.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Yparxei h dhlwsh Erntogan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqe dhlwsh, h opoia den bohqa sthn kateyqynsh poy eipa prin, den xreiazetai peraiterw krish. Dhlwseis kai prajeis prepei na bohqoyn sthn kateyqynsh ths eyrwpaikhs prooptikhs ths Toyrkias.

TSIODRAS: Eipate oti synexizontai oi diaboyleyseis, prokeimenoy na ejeyreqei h hmeromhnia gia thn pragmatopoihsh toy tajidioy. Ayto katalabainw oti kai oi dhlwseis Erntogan, alla kai ta osa synebhsan sthn Kwnstantinoypolh me toys ``gkrizoys lykoys'' den ephreazoyn se kamia periptwsh thn episkech toy Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Agkyra. Katalaba swsta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa oti to tajidi qa pragmatopoihqei kai synexizontai oi diaboyleyseis diamesoy ths diplwmatikhs odoy.

TSIODRAS: Milame panta gia to telos Noembrioy, etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei oristei akoma h hmeromhnia.

XIWTHS: Kybernhtikes phges thn perasmenh ebdomada topoqetoysan ayth thn episkech sto trito dekahmero toy Noembrioy. H erwthsh mas einai ean aytes oi dhlwseis toy k. Erntogan sto Londino dhmioyrgoyn epiplokes sto na pragmatopoihqei se ayth thn periodo h episkech.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw kanei sxolia kai gia ta dyo qemata. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

GKOYTZANHS: Yparxei periptwsh na mhn katalhjoyn aytes oi diplwmatikes diaboyleyseis gia thn ejeyresh hmeromhnias, logw isws fortwmenoy programmatos toy Prwqypoyrgoy h kati paromoio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa oti h proqesh einai na pragmatopoihqei h episkech. Kata synepeia, qa perimenoyme na oloklhrwqoyn oi diaboyleyseis.

POYLIDOY: H prwth erwthsh sth synexeia aytwn poy eipate, mhpws o prosdiorismos toy tajidioy qymizei tis dhlwseis poy kanate peri anasxhmatismoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite;

POYLIDOY: Ennow oti den ginetai anasxhmatismos, ews otoy ginei kai h episkech qa ginei ews otoy den ginei. Mhpws einai mia antistrofh logikh, dioti en th ennoia ths zwhs ola ginontai. Kapoia stigmh mporei na paei o Prwqypoyrgos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei. Den qa pw tipota perissotero.

POYLIDOY: Wraia. Na kanw mia allh erwthsh, ean jerete sth bash poias eqimotypias parhlasan tmhmata prwhn lokatzhdwn sthn parelash ths Qessalonikhs kraygazontas synqhmata peri aimatos ellhnikoy poy den qa doqei gia ta Skopia, mprosta ston Proedro ths Dhmokratias, ston Mhtropolith kai stis politikes arxes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw.

POYLIDOY: Mhpws exete na kanete kapoio sxolio gi ayto poy sas lew;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi den qa kanw sxolio gia qema poy den gnwrizw.

POYLIDOY: Mhpws omws qa eprepe na to gnwrizete, dioti ta MME to exoyn metadwsei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo th qesh poy briskomai gnwrizw para polla pragmata gia ta opoia mporw na sas apanthsw. Omws, opws exw pei polles fores, den ta gnwrizw ola.

ARMENHS: Pws sxoliazei h kybernhsh tis teleytaies dhlwseis twn boyleytwn k.k. Nikolopoyloy kai Gewrgiadh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai dyo diaforetika qemata. Se o,ti afora to zhthma twn Skopiwn, h kybernhsh exei jekaqarh qesh, exei jekaqarh politikh apoch. Ayto poy hqela na pw einai oti proswpikes apoceis qa prepei na ekferontai me sebasmo sthn istoria. Oson afora to deytero qema poy qesate, mas diakatexei oloys mia agwnia gia na mporesoyme na lysoyme ta polla problhmata poy paralabame. O tropos, o xronos, to yfos krinontai kai ajiologoyntai.

SIDERHS: O sebasmos sthn istoria, fantazomai, den apokleiei ton boyleyth na exei proswpikes apoceis, opws epitrepei kai to Syntagma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Molis prin apo mia ebdomada kaname megalh syzhthsh edw gia th dynatothta poy exei o boyleyths, h opoia aryetai apo to Syntagma, na ekferei tis apoceis toy.

SIDERHS: Tote ti nohma exei oti eklhqh o boyleyths apo ton k. Stayroy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean akoysete th dhlwsh poy ekana, exete parei kai apanthsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Proswpikes apoceis exoyn ekferei kai alloi boyleytes kai diagrafhkan. Proswpikes apoceis ejefrase kai o k. Polyzos kai diegrafh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai ep` aytoy toy qematos exw erwthqei kai alles fores kai exw pei oti kaqe ypoqesh krinetai xwrista.

SPYRAKH: Yparxei, omws kai epi ths oysias ena zhthma: O k. Nikolopoylos epimenei oti yparxei problhma diafqoras sthn Politistikh Prwteyoysa ths Patras. Ep` aytoy exei diatajei ereyna to ypoyrgeio Politismoy; Exete eikona gia to ti akribws symbainei; Kai sas erwtw giati o Prwqypoyrgos einai o armodios ypoyrgos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sto qema ayto exoyme anaferqei kai sto parelqon. Den exw na pw tipota perissotero.

SPYRAKH: O k. Nikolopoylos epimenei stis kataggelies toy.

BLAXOS: Sas apasxolei h katastash ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas ths N.D. sthn Perifereia toy Peiraia; Kai ean, nai, ti skopeyete na kanete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na kanete pio sygkekrimeno to erwthma sas; Ti ennoeite legontas, ean sas apasxolei;

BLAXOS: Opws akoyte, blepete kai diabazete to epipedo ths politikhs ekproswphshs ths N.D. ston Peiraia einai xamhlo. Akoyte ti ginetai metajy twn boyleytwn, akoyte kai diabazete ti grafetai gia osa symbainoyn sto paraskhnio. Sas apasxolei; Eiste eyxaristhmenoi, dhladh, me ayto to pragma poy ginetai ston Peiraia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti pote den apantw sth bash toy ean eimaste h den eimaste eyxaristhmenoi se kati. To epipedo, pantws, den einai xamhlo. Den symfwnw mazi sas.

BLAXOS: Dhladh, einai ychlo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H antiparaqesh ginetai me politikoys oroys kai etsi prepei na ginetai. O,ti ekfeygei apo thn antiparaqesh politikwn orwn, ekfeygei bebaiws kai apo th dikh mas logikh.

BLAXOS: H antiparaqesh ginetai me politikoys oroys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei.

SARANTAKOS: Pro oligwn mhnwn, eixe synedriasei to KYSEA kai eixe bgalei mia apofash gia thn agora twn 40 F-16. Malista, o k. Sphliwtopoylos, o kaq` ylhn armodios ypoyrgos, eixe prosdiorisei to kostos gia 1,1 dis. eyrw. Ligoys mhnes meta, oi Amerikanoi mas miloyn gia 3,1 dis. eyrw. Kat` arxas, poio einai to poso, an to gnwrizoyn h kybernhsh kai o k. Sphliwtopoylos kai telika an to kostos yperbainei kata poly tis ektimhseis. Pws symbadizei olo ayto me tis proeklogikes ejaggelies ths Neas Dhmokratias oti qa ginoyn perikopes dapanwn sta ejoplistika programmata, prokeimenoy na doqoyn gia th dhmioyrgia enos koinwnikoy kratoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei hdh apanthsei sto qema to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amyna. Ean anatrejete stis anakoinwseis toy k. Sphliwtopoyloy, qa parete apanthsh.

SARANTAKOS: Elexqh oti qa yparxoyn kai aeroskafh poy den qa exoyn oplismo kai oti to prwto kostos poy qa kocoyn einai ston oplismo k.t.l. Dhladh, qelw na pw oti otan to kostos ypologizetai, den ypologizetai plhrws;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw apo poioys elexqh, ean elexqh kati tetoio opws moy to metaferete. Profanws, exoyn agnoia gia to qema.

SARANTAKOS: Elexqh, malista@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa ypeiselqw se leptomereies. Ta systhmata enos aeroskafoys einai ena qema diaforetiko apo to aeroskafos ayto kaq@ ayto, opws paragetai apo mia biomhxania. Yparxoyn apanthseis apo to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas, oi opoies kalyptoyn to erwthma sas.

SARANTAKOS: Mhpws htan ligo proxeirh h prwth antidrash toy k. Sphliwtopoyloy gia to 1,1 dis eyrw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqoloy. Sas eipa oti ta systhmata einai ekeina ta opoia epibarynoyn epipleon to kostos enos aeroskafoys.

SARANTAKOS: (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Den qa anelqei se ayto to ycos. Gi` ayto lew oti profanws kapoioi den gnwrizoyn to qema. Se kaqe periptwsh, den anerxetai se ayto to kostos. H laqos entypwsh poy doqhke se orismenoys, einai dioti to Kogkreso phre thn apofash na egkrinei ayth thn pwlhsh. Otan lambanetai ayth h apofash, krinetai sto anwtato ycos, efoson perilambanontai ola ta systhmata poy mporei na ferei ena aeroskafos. Den shmainei oti ola ta systhmata qa einai se kaqe aeroskafos. Gi` ayto akribws kai exei yparjei aytoy toy eidoys h kakh -an qelete- ermhneia ths mias apofashs me thn allh. Wstoso, epeidh to Kogkreso den synhqizei na lambanei apofaseis deyterh kai trith fora, doqhke mia oristikh egkrish me to synolo toy kostoys poy qa mporoyse na ftasei ena aeroskafos.

BLAXOS: Ta systhmata ayta qa ta apofasisoyme emeis h qa mas ta epiballoyn Amerikanoi; Mhpws, dhladh, yparxei kapoio systhma, to opoio oi Amerikanoi den qeloyn na baloyn sta dika mas F-16, enw to idio systhma mporei na einai se kapoio toyrkiko aeroskafos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh ths kaqe xwras poy agorazei, zhta ta systhmata poy qelei.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh gnwrizei posa qa dwsei gia ta 40 F-16;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan oloklhrwqoyn oi diadikasies, qa anakoinwqei to akribes poso.

KAKALHS: Pote qa oloklhrwqoyn, jeroyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ola ayta, qeloyn poly xrono.

SIDERHS: To kostos qa ejarthqei apo ta oplika systhmata. Omws, ayta ta oplika systhmata, ta exoyme zhthsei emeis, h hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Eqnikhs Amynas, h stratiwtikh hgesia, giati kalyptei tis prodiagrafes mias anaxaitishs sto Aigaio. An qa einai mikrotero to kostos, shmainei oti qa einai pio gdymena ta aeroplana. Sygnwmh, gia to adokimo ths ekfrashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na pw oti einai poly aploikh h proseggish. Oyte eseis, oyte egw, eimaste eidikoi epi toy qematos. Qa parakaloysa, opoios exei megalytero endiaferon na plhroforhqei perissotera apo ta osa mporoysa na sas pw shmera, na apeyqynqei sto ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas.

SIDERHS: Eiste oi prwtoi didajantes twn ejetastikwn epitropwn kai twn eidikwn dikasthriwn. Skefteste oti ayrio, otan qa erqoyn oi alloi gi` ayth thn agora, na breqeite sthn idia qesh poy balate toys alloys kapote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Aporriptw ayto poy eipate. Ean enas topos exei nomoys, oi nomoi aytoi prepei na throyntai. Ara, loipon, egkaloyntai aytoi poy den throyn toys nomoys.

KYRITSHS: H anakoinwsh toy Kogkresoy afora agora aeroskafwn 30+10, dhladh 40. Qelw na rwthsw, ean exei katalhjei h kybernhsh, an qa agorasei 40 maxhtika aeroskafh me ypodeestero ejoplismo h ligotera me plhrestero. Giati, jerete oti den einai to idio na pareis tessera aytokinhta xwris rodes. Einai pio xrhsimo na pareis dyo me rodes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai ayth h proseggish, qa moy epitrecete na pw oti einai aploikh. Den qa pw tipota perissotero gia to qema. Gia perissoteres leptomereies, parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas.

GKOYTZANHS: Exei kleisei to qema politika, k. Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw opoio erwthma qelete peraiterw gia ta F-16, na apeyqynqeite sto ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean apotelei eilhmmenh apofash ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs h promhqeia twn aeroskafwn F-16 apo tis HPA.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean den to qymaste, exei yparjei apofash toy KYSEA.

GKOYTZANHS: Qa hqela na rwthsw gia to basiko metoxo. Me to nomosxedio poy qa ferete, telika yparxei asymbibasto, opws epitassei to Syntagma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H anakoinwsh, thn opoia ejedwsa thn Pempth, einai safhs. Qelw na sas pw oti ejyphreteitai apolytws to pneyma toy Syntagmatos. Ayto to opoio hqele na problecei o syntagmatikos nomoqeths einai na mhn mporei idiokthths MME na ephreazei me to Meso enhmerwshs poy katexei, prokeimenoy na synacei dhmosies symbaseis. Ayto to pneyma toy Syntagmatos ejyphreteitai apolytws me to neo nomosxedio.

GKOYTZANHS: Giati sas phre ena xrono gia na to katalabete, meta apo tetoia peripeteia kai sthn Eyrwph kai politikh antiparaqesh sth xwra kai den to kanate apo thn arxh na teleiwnoyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati exoyme thn politikh apoch oti kapoios prepei na epimenei. Na mhn afhnei ta pragmata na xronizoyn sto syrtari kai na kanei pws den katalabainei oti yparxoyn problhmata. Se antiqesh, loipon, me thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, poy afhse to problhma sto syrtari, xwris na syzhthsei me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph -ejantlhse dhladh tis opoies epafes se mia h dyo epistoles- emeis, epi oktw mhnes, eixame polles syzhthseis, polles diadikasies diapragmateyshs. Kai petyxame to teliko apotelesma, to opoio sebetai to Syntagma mas kai briskei ton koino topo -opws eixame desmeytei kai sto Koinoboylio kai ston ypoloipo dhmosio logo mas- metajy Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai ellhnikhs nomoqesias.

BLAXOS: Mhpws telika epidiwkate kati allo; Kai anaferomai bebaia sth metoxikh synqesh toy Mega. Mhpws qelete na allajei h metoxikh synqesh toy Mega; Na fygei o k. Mpompolas apo to Mega;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw erwthqei kai alles fores gia proswpa kai epixeirhmaties kai exw parei qesh. Den qa pw tipota perissotero.

BLAXOS: Gia ton k. Zormpa qelete na mas peite kati;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite;

BLAXOS: Grafetai oti qa ginei mia Arxh gia th diafqora kai qa paei ekei o k. Zormpas. Yparxei tetoio qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, den yparxei kati poy na gnwrizw.

BLAXOS: Gia to prwto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora to prwto, to exw anakoinwsei sto press room. Htan h syzhthsh poy egine thn prohgoymenh Deytera sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph.

KAKALHS : Pws h kybernhsh diasfalizei oti o idiokthths MME den qa ta xrhsimopoihsei gia na parei doyleies apo to Dhmosio, me dedomeno oti den yparxei kamia diadikasia sto nomo. Apla yparxei ena geniko rhtoriko@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporei na gnwrizete ti yparxei sto nomo, giati den ton exete dei akoma. Kata synepeia, den katalabainw pws lete ayto poy lete.

KAKALHS: Peste mas pws diasfalizetai, loipon.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas pw -kai to exete hdh sta xeria sas apo xqes to meshmeri, giati sas esteila ena enhmerwtiko shmeiwma- oti efarmozetai plhrws h diatajh gia ta asymbibasta, etsi wste na apofeygetai h askhsh aqemiths epirrohs. Otan yparxei aqemith epirroh, ayth apodeiknyetai. Opoios apopeiraqei na askhsei thn epirroh me to Meso poy diaqetei, gia toys logoys poy anefera prohgoymenws, tote antimetwpizei tis synepeies toy nomoy, oi opoies einai poly aysthres. Einai aysthroteres kai apo to nomo poy ferame sth Boylh to Febroyario, afoy problepetai poinh isobias kaqeirjhs.

KAKALHS: Pws apodeiknyetai@

GKOYTZANHS: Ti einai h aqemith epirroh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi armodies arxes kai ta dikasthria gnwrizoyn na krinoyn kai krinoyn analoga me thn kaqe periptwsh. Otan, loipon, askeitai aqemith epirroh -enas oros o opoios den katalabainw giati sas ekplhssei, afoy yparxei dieqnws se polles xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai tis HPA- oi arxes krinoyn thn aqemith epirroh. Otan, loipon, aytes oi arxes qa to krinoyn, bebaiws kai qa epibaloyn tis poines toys.

GKOYTZANHS: Den yparxei orismos ths aqemiths epirrohs sth bash ths opoias qa klhqoyn meta oi dioikhtikes arxes, en prokeimenw to ESR h argotera ta dikasthria na apofasisoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw oti h kaqe arxh krinei sth bash twn stoixeiwn poy qa exei sta xeria ths, sthn periptwsh poy qa klhqei na ereynhsei. To dikasthrio, afoy dei oti ta stoixeia odhgoyn se symperasma oti askhqhke aqemith epirroh, qa epibalei kyrwseis kai malista aysthres.

GKOYTZANHS: Prepei, omws, na orisete ti einai aqemith epirroh, prokeimenoy na kriqei ean mia prajh synista h oxi aqemith epirroh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Orizetai, opws akribws orizetai se oles tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

GKOYTZANHS: Ara, loipon, den yparxei eidikos orismos sto nomo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti yparxei o oros dieqnws. An den to gnwrizete, to maqainete twra.

GKOYTZANHS: Xairomai na maqainw. Den yparxei problhma, gi` ayto rwtw. Den rwtw gia na perna h wra.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H apanthsh moy, loipon, sas kalyptei apolytws. Otan to dikasthrio krinei oti askhqhke aqemith epirroh apo MME, tote qa epibalei ston idiokthth, poy mporei na einai kai idiokthths etaireias poy synaptei dhmosies symbaseis, aytes tis poines. To dikasthrio exei to baros ths apodeiktikhs diadikasias, me ta stoixeia poy yparxoyn.

BLAXOS: Olos o kosmos ejyphreteitai apo thn Attikh Odo. Ean to Mega h to EQNOS paroysiasoyn ena reportaz poy na lene oti h Attikh Odos qeloyme na paei mexri th Glyfada, th Rafhna poy menei kai o Prwqypoyrgos, mexri to Layrio, poy qa ginei ena megalo limani, ayto einai aqemith epirroh h oxi; Kai epeidh egw den jerw to dieqnh oro gia thn aqemith epirroh, qa qelate na moy ton ejhghsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws, se kamia periptwsh o rolos moy den einai na kanw to dikasth se ayth thn aiqoysa h ektos ayths. H Politeia ofeilei na brei ekeinoys toys qesmoys me toys opoioys qa threitai to pneyma toy Syntagmatos. Me ayto to nomo, threitai to pneyma toy Syntagmatos.

KYRITSHS: H aqemith epirroh qa diagignwsketai aytepaggelta h kat` egklish;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa ginetai me diaforetikoys tropoys. Endexomenws, qa mporei na prosfygei kai kapoios -o opoios sigoyra exei ennomo symferon kai qewrei oti kakws ena ergo edoqh se kapoio antagwnisth toy kai oxi se ayton kai oti o antagwnisths askhse aqemith epirroh- prokeimenoy na parei ayto to ergo.

GARGALAKOS: Aytos o oros ``aqemith epirroh'' mporei apo toys antagwnistes na parejhghqei. Na sas pw ena paradeigma: Estw oti o k. Mpompolas, thn wra poy ginetai enas diagwnismos, mesw toy EQNOYS, leei kala logia kai exei kala prwtoselida gia thn kybernhsh. Ayto mporei na qewrhqei oti abantarei thn kybernhsh, ara h kybernhsh exei mia epirroh aqemith kai etsi phre to ergo h kai antistrofws. Na kanei kritikh sthn kybernhsh kai na qewrei oti ekbiazei politika thn kybernhsh. Den qewreite oti etsi opws to exete afhsei floy, qa dhmioyrghqoyn para polla problhmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epanalambanw oti einai enas dokimos oros poy xrhsimopoieitai se oles tis dytikes dhmokraties. As afhsoyme to dikasthrio -h Dikaiosynh einai anejarthth- na krinei thn kaqe periptwsh jexwrista.

BLAXOS: Me ti kanones;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me to nomo ton opoio, ws ergaleio, qa exei sta xeria toy kaqe dikasthrio kai me ta stoixeia poy qa exei sta xeria toy.

BLAXOS: (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan ginetai mia dikh, o dikasths krinei, me bash to nomo apo th mia pleyra kai ta stoixeia poy toy parexontai apo thn allh. O dikasths, loipon, qa krinei.

BLAXOS: Poios einai o nomos gia thn aqemith epirroh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To gegonos oti akoyw orismenoys na lene oti akoysan gia prwth fora shmera edw kai oti den gnwrizoyn ena oro, den shmainei oti den yparxei h oti den isxyei. Isa-isa poy einai mia poly shmantikh proodos, ena shmantiko bhma ston tropo me ton opoio orizontai pleon oi diadikasies me tis opoies ena dikasthrio qa mporesei na labei thn apofash toy.

BLAXOS: Mporeite na mas dwsete ena paradeigma aqemiths epirrohs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Otan dinw to nomo sth dhmosiothta, milw gi` ayton. Sas exw pei ti akribws isxyei stis alles eyrwpaikes xwres kai ti qa isxyei kai sthn Ellada. Den qa milhsw me paradeigmata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia to dialogo poy qa ginei gia th sygkentrwsh twn Meswn kai th adeiodothsh, yparxei xronodiagramma; Pote dhladh qa einai etoimo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa oti tis prosexeis hmeres qa anakoinwsw ta stadia toy dialogoy. Einai diaforetika ta stadia toy dialogoy. Einai sigoyra ena prwto stadio me toys foreis, ena deytero me ta kommata. Qa ginetai kwdikopoihsh twn apocewn apo oloys toys foreis kai apo ta kommata. Ena allo stadio einai h syzhthsh sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias sth Boylh kai sth synexeia katartish toy nomosxedioy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kanena xrono, dhladh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa ginei prospaqeia na teleiwsoyme oso to dynato nwritera. Einai ena polyploko kai synqeto qema, poy dystyxws den antimetwpisthke epi seira etwn h antimetwpisthke me elliph tropo, ta apotelesmata toy opoioy ta blepoyme sthn prajh.

TSIODRAS: Milhsate prin gia ejyphrethsh toy pneymatos toy Syntagmatos poy afora sto nomo gia ton basiko metoxo. Yparxei ena zhthma poy afora sto gramma toy Syntagmatos, to opoio den yphreteitai apo to sygkekrimeno nomo. Qelw na rwthsw, ean yparxei proqesh sthn kybernhsh to sygkekrimeno edafio toy Syntagmatos na allajei otan qa ginei h syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh@@..(den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos exw erwthqei kai sto parelqon. Den qa pw tipota perissotero. Se o,ti afora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, ejyphreteitai to pneyma toy Syntagmatos poy mila gia asymbibastes idiothtes. O syntagmatikos nomoqeths ayto hqele otan eqese to arqro 14 paragrafos 9, pros chfish sth Boylh.

XIWTHS: Mexri na chfistei apo th Boylh o neos nomos, poy symfwnhsate me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. Me ton palio nomo ti ginetai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ypegrafh hdh shmera to prwi, apo toys ypoyrgoys, to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias, prajh nomoqetikoy periexomenoy poy dinei mikrh anastolh, ews otoy chfistoyn oi tropopoihqeises diatajeis toy nomoy 3310 kai dhmosieyqoyn sto fyllo ths Efhmeridas ths Kybernhshs, dhladh, gia liges hmeres.

XIWTHS: Gia poso;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia dyo-treis ebdomades.

XIWTHS: O neos nomos pote ypologizete na chfistei apo th Boylh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prospaqeia mas einai na katateqei shmera kai na proxwrhsei me th diadikasia toy katepeigontos.

XIWTHS: Ara, shmera qa dwsete kai to plhres keimeno sth dhmosiothta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Shmera qa katateqei sth Boylh.

SPYRAKH: Yparxei mia prwtoboylia pollwn eyrwboyleytwn, peripoy 300, gia thn ektypwsh apo thn Kentrikh Eyrwpaikh Trapeza xartonomismatos toy enos kai twn dyo eyrw. Hqela na jerw th qesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, gi ayth thn prwtoboylia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh einai qetikh se ayth thn energeia. Qelw na qymisw oti se mia apo tis prwtes kiolas synedriaseis ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, perysi, ton Aprilio h to Maio, eixe syzhthqei. Qewroyme oti qa einai pros th swsth kateyqynsh.

TSIODRAS: Se sxesh me tis DEKO kai to nomosxedio: Blepoyme hdh prin katateqei na yparxei mia kontra anamesa ston k. Liaph kai ston k. Alogoskoyfh, se sxesh me to poios exei ton prwto logo stis DEKO. Ta oikonomika, ap o,ti fainetai ta exei to ypoyrgeio Oikonomias, ta diaxeiristika, toylaxiston ayta poy aforoyn sto ypoyrgeio Metaforwn, to ypoyrgeio Metaforwn. Qa eprepe prin egkriqei apo thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph, na dei to nomosxedio o k. Liaphs; Qa klhqei o ypoyrgos Metaforwn sth synedriash;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, qelw na sas pw oti einai apofash mas na proxwrhsoyme sthn anabaqmish ths leitoyrgias twn DEKO. Oson afora to erwthma sas, h epejergasia toy nomosxedioy synexizetai me th symmetoxh olwn twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn, exoyn ginei kai syskeceis poy malista exoyn anakoinwqei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qelw na rwthsw ean h kybernhsh epimenei akoma na mpoyn oi ellhnikes omades sto ``STOIXHMA'', meta tis diamaxes twn diaforwn epixeirhmatiwn, gia to poios qa to parei, dioti kapoioi lene oti exoyn plates sthn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei o,ti exw pei kai exw milhsei poly gi ayto to qema.

Sas eyxaristw.

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