Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-07-13

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 13 Ioylioy 2005

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayth thn wra exei synergasia, sto Megaro Majimoy, me toys Ypoyrgoys Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Giwrgo Alogoskoyfh kai Apasxolhshs k. Pano Panagiwtopoylo.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio, stis 10:30, qa exei synergasia me ton k. Argyrh Karra, stis 11:00 me ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs k. Prokoph Paylopoylo kai stis 11:30 me ton Grammatea ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Baggelh Meimarakh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Prin apo tis erwthseis, qa hqela na qesw ena diadikastiko qema. To mono meros sthn Ellada, to opoio den leitoyrgei prin apo tis 11 to prwi, fainetai oti einai to Megaro Majimoy kai oi diayloi enhmerwshs. Emeis apo xqes exoyme ayth thn plhroforia oti qa ginei ayth h syskech toy k. Karamanlh me ton k. Alogoskoyfh kai me ton k. Panagiwtopoylo. Gia logoys tajhs kai dhmosiografikhs deontologias anazhtoyme mia epishmh epibebaiwsh. Kaneis den emfanizetai sto Megaro Majimoy mexri tis 11 to prwi gia na mas pei kati. Einai mono oi idiaiteres, oi opoies mas lene monimws ``Exoyn syskech''. Egw nomizw oti ws prwhn dhmosiografos poy eixate diatelesei kai epikefalhs politikwn tmhmatwn, den einai epipedo enhmerwshs twn politikwn syntaktwn ayto. Dioti den einai mono oi thleoraseis to brady, den einai mono oi efhmerides poy ergazontai to brady, einai kai ta radiofwna kai oi dieyqyntes mas, einai olo ena systhma, to opoio emeis mexri tis 11, perimename apo to Megaro Majimoy na jypnhsei kapoios apo th syskech gia na mas pei ``nai, qa ginei ayth h synanthsh''. Einai epipedo enhmerwshs ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H enhmerwsh h opoia ginetai, einai h plhresterh enhmerwsh poy ginotan pote. Enhmerwneste se poly syntomo xroniko diasthma, apo th stigmh poy to zhtate, eite apo ton omiloynta, eite apo alla stelexh toy Grafeioy Typoy. Oson afora sth shmerinh syskech sthn opoia anafereste, exei tyxei polles fores, kapoies plhrofories poy dioxeteyontai ston Typo, na diaceydontai h na epibebaiwnontai. Ara, loipon, gia th sygkekrimenh syskech poy apofasisthke shmera to prwi, anakoinwqhke amesws pros oloys. Kapoies efhmerides mporei na egracan plhrofories oti endexetai na ginei ayth h syskech. Ayto omws den shmainei oti eixe apofasistei ti wra qa pragmatopoihqei h syskech. Kata synepeia, den yparxei qema, opws ayto poy lete. Eimai bebaios oti den yparxei genikotera qema enhmerwshs, idiaitera otan o kaqenas apo sas jexwrista exei thn kaqhmerinh empeiria ths proswpikhs thlefwnikhs epafhs mazi moy.

BLAXOS: Eseis dhladh h kapoios apo to Megaro Majimoy bghke shmera se dhmosiografoys@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egine enhmerwsh shmera to prwi gia th syskech, otan ayth apofasisthke.

BLAXOS: Ma, emeis prin apo tis 11 den briskame anqrwpo. Briskame mono tis idiaiteres. Ayto einai to qema, oti den briskame enan anqrwpo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To qema ejantlhqhke.

GKOYTZANHS: Pantws o k. Panagiwtopoylos to anakoinwne ayto apo xqes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew oti o Prwqypoyrgos shmera to prwi kalese toys dyo Ypoyrgoys. An yphrxe h plhroforia oti mporei na ginei kapoia syskech kai ayrio kai meqayrio mporei na akoyte to idio pragma. H apofash elhfqh shmera to prwi kai enhmerwqhkate amesws.

BLAXOS: Apo tis idiaiteres enhmerwqhkame, oxi apo esas.

SPYRAKH: Poia einai h qesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs epi ths protasews ths bretanikhs proedrias poy syzhteitai shmera stis Bryjeles gia thn katagrafh twn thlefwnhmatwn, twn sms kai twn mail kai th diathrhsh twn dedomenwn aytwn gia ena xrono; Qelw na qymisw aplws oti an me parapemcete sth xqesinh dhlwsh toy k. Boylgarakh oti gia na lhfqei mia tetoia apofash, xreiazetai omofwnia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai egw kai o k. Boylgarakhs kaname xqes dhlwseis. Shmera sth Boylh qa kriqoyn oi logoi gia toys opoioys zhteitai, ayto poy zhteitai apo th bretanikh Proedria kai qa lhfqei mia apofash. H genikh arxh, thn opoia sas eipa, isxye kai isxyei. H opoia apofash krinetai epi th basei kapoiwn dedomenwn. Otan, loipon, yparxoyn ta dedomena, o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs, o opoios metexei se ayth th synanthsh, qa labei thn apofash toy kai qa thn anakoinwsei.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h antidiktatorikh drash einai arnhtiko stoixeio gia to biografiko enos diplwmath;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To antiqeto.

GKOYTZANHS: Mporeite na mas peite ti egine me ayth thn ypoqesh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se poia ypoqesh anafereste;

GKOYTZANHS: Me ton Presbh poy protiqetai na steilei h xwra mas stis HPA@

ROYSOPOYLOS: O ekproswpos toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn k. Koymoytsakos exei ekdwsei apo xqes anakoinwsh, sthn opoia apanta me leptomereies sto qema.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sthn Ellada eixame atomikh tromokratia kai ypesthmen epaneilhmmena tajidiwtikes odhgies. H kybernhsh giati den ejedwse tajidiwtikh odhgia gia mia xwra poy eixe mazikh tromokratia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai to erwthma sas. Qelete na ginete pio safhs;

SIDERHS: Giati den ekdwsate tajidiwtikh odhgia gia th Bretania;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi tajidiwtikes odhgies -opws sas exw dhlwsei sto parelqon- apo mia seira xwrwn, ekdidontai kyriws kai prwtistws gia logoys eswterikhs nomikhs tajhs. To exw ejhghsei para polles fores.

SIDERHS: Ara, o toyrismos mas poy eixe plhgei tote apo tis amerikanikes tajidiwtikes odhgies h twn agglwn, htan gia logoys eswterikhs tajhs; Giati ap` o, ti blepw, to apotelesma htan ston toyrismo mas, htan ejwterikhs@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa mia seira logwn, me prwto ap` oloys, to logo poy sas anefera: Xwres opws h Aystralia kai h Nea Zhlandia kai oi HPA stis opoies anaferqhkate, prokeimenoy na yphrethsoyn toys eswterikoys nomoys toys, dhladh na mhn plhrwnoyn apozhmiwseis stoys polites toys ean toys symbei kati, ejedidan kai ekdidoyn mia seira odhgiwn. H xwra mas den exei ayth th nomoqesia.

BLAXOS: Ara, k. Ekproswpe, ean enas poliths, symfwna me thn kybernhsh, symfwna me esas, qelei na tajidecei sto Londino, ti qa toy legate; Na prosexei, na anabalei to tajidi toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai eleyqeros na tajidecei.

BLAXOS: Qa toy legate, san epishmh qesh ths kybernhshs, na prosexei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai eleyqeros na tajidecei. Opws gnwrizete, h tromokratia einai mia ypoqesh poy apasxolei thn pagkosmia koinothta ta teleytaia xronia. Apasxolhse kai emas entona -oxi mono sto epipedo ths 17N epi seira dekaetiwn- kai sth diarkeia ths proolympiakhs periodoy, opoy proetoimasthkame na antimetwpisoyme kaqe endexomeno. Apasxolei ws fainomeno thn koinwnia mas, opws kai oles tis alles koinwnies. Einai ena fainomeno to opoio den mporei kaneis na paragnwrisei. Apo thn allh pleyra, omws, den mporei kapoios na dhmioyrgei fobika syndroma kai oyte na ta ypoqalpei.

BLAXOS: Etsi ki alliws, to na bgalete kai eseis mia tajidiwtikh odhgia, opws ekanan palaiotera oi Bretanoi eis baros mas, einai mia politikh prajh kai aporw giati fobaste h giati den tolmate na bgalete ayth thn anakoinwsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anafereste me tosh eykolia sto fobo h thn tolmh. Den mporei, omws, kapoios me thn idia eykolia na parei tetoioy eidoys apofaseis h tetoioy eidoys prwtoboylies. Qa prepei na pisteyei oti yparxei kaqhmerinos kindynos gia ton polith, ton tajidiwth, ton toyrista, se kapoies xwres. Tetoia katastash mexri protinos den yphrxe gia thn Agglia. Palaiotera den yphrxe gia thn Ispania. Den shmainei oti ayrio h meqayrio qa exoyme antistoixes tromokratikes epiqeseis.

BLAXOS: Ma, oyte gia thn Ellada yphrxe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kalo einai na mhn ypoqalpei kaneis fobika syndroma, dioti ayto mporei na leitoyrghsei mono se baros ths eleyqerias toy polith.

POYLIDOY: Dyo sxetikes erwthseis. H mia einai, h idia h bretanikh pleyra. Apo o,ti exw diabasei stis antapokriseis, piqanologei neo tromokratiko xtyphma. Dhladh, yparxei oysiwdhs logos gia thn ekdosh odhgias. Kai to deytero einai, ean skefteste na allajete ayth thn eswterikh ennomh tajh, wste na yparxei h dynatothta ekdoshs odhgiwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora sto deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, mporw na enhmerwqw apo to Ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn h to Ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs kai na sas enhmerwsw. Gia to prwto skelos toy erwthmatos sas, isxyei ayto poy sas exw pei.

KYRITSHS: An katalaba kala apo o,ti eipate prohgoymenws, analoga me to ti qa akoysei o k. Boylgarakhs shmera sth Synodo, endexetai na synainesei sth genikh katarghsh toy aporrhtoy twn epikoinwniwn, h opoia einai syntagmatika katoxyrwmenh. Einai etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den katalabate kala. Sas eipa oti krinetai kaqe fora o apoxrwn logos.

KYRITSHS: Kai an kriqei eparkhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean yparxei apoxrwn logos, tote o k. Boylgarakhs qa labei thn apofash poy prepei, ekproswpwntas thn ellhnikh kybernhsh. Opws antilambaneste, se ypoqetika erwthmata, opoiadhpote apanthsh einai laqos. Sas eipa ti isxyei sth xwra mas. To eipan kai o k. Boylgarakhs kai o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs. Otan pas se ena symboylio, anameneis na akoyseis toys prwtoys logoys -an yparxoyn- gia na apofasiseis an qa xreiastei na proxwrhseis se opoiodhpote metro. Gia paradeigma, stoys Olympiakoys agwnes kai sthn proolympiakh periodo eixame mia seira metrwn poy den exoyme shmera. Eixan akoloyqhqei oi nomimoi kanones me bash to Syntagma mas kai thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn, etsi wste na prostateytoyn oi polites. Ean, loipon, yparxei opoiosdhpote apoxrwn logos o opoios qa ejhghqei eparkws kai xreiazetai na ginei to otidhpote se kapoies eyrwpaikes xwres, qa ejetastei. Emeis pisteyoyme oti eimaste mia asfalhs xwra, enas asfalhs proorismos, kati poy apodeixqhke kai perysi kata th diarkeia twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn kai apodeiknyetai kaqhmerina.

BLAXOS: Ayto to apodidete sto gegonos oti h kardia ths tromokratias sthn Agglia einai h politikh Mpler sto Irak kai stis alles perioxes toy planhth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa probw egw se sxolia, ektimhseis h kriseis giati oi tromokrates qeloyn na skotwnoyn kosmo se opoiadhpote xwra toy kosmoy. Einai katadikastees aytes oi energeies sth syneidhsh ths syntriptikhs pleiochfias twn politwn toy planhth.

BLAXOS: Einai katadikastees kai oi energeies Mpler se diafores perioxes toy planhth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ena teleiws diaforetiko qema gia to opoio h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei hdh topoqethqei sto parelqon.

TSIODRAS: Se sxesh me ta metra poy diabazoyme, oti proteinei h bretanikh Proedria, bebaiws qa ektimhsei o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs kai analogws qa apofasisei opws eipate. Wstoso, qa hqela na jerw, apo qesh arxhs, h ellhnikh ean protaqoyn metra, opws ayta poy diabazoyme, ta opoia einai profanes oti antikeintai kai sto ellhniko Syntagma, alla nomizw oti mpei freno kai apo thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn, qa pei oxi o k. Boylgarakhs; Exei thn ejoysiodothsh apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh na pei oxi sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, giati ayta ta opoia qa protaqoyn antikeintai stoys ellhnikoys nomoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To erwthma sas exei apanthqei. Sas milhsa gia to Syntagma mas kai thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn. Sas eipa oti se orismenes periptwseis, opws sthn olympiakh kai proolympiakh periodo, xreiasthke na laboyme epipleon metra. Sas eipa, epishs, oti h Ellada einai mia asfalhs xwra. Den exw na prosqesw tipote perissotero.

TSIODRAS: Ara, h apanthsh einai oti qa pei oxi, apo o,ti katalabainw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Zhtate na sas pw ti qa poyn oi Bretanoi, poia stoixeia qa proskomisoyn kai ti qa proteinoyn. Zhtate, loipon, me bash pragmata ta opoia den gnwrizoyme ayth th stigmh, na topoqethqoyme. Sas eipa th qesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs. Apo ekei kai pera, ean proskomisoyn stoixeia ta opoia qa dhmioyrgoyn thn opoiadhpote anhsyxia se mia allh xwra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, h xwra ayth qa prepei -ean ektimhsei oti ta stoixeia ayta einai sobara- na synektimhsei kai tis kinhseis poy qa kanei. Den einai logiko ayto; Ean, dhladh, emeis sth diarkeia ths proolympiakhs periodoy eixame plhrofories -peran ths Aqhnas poy htan mia froyroymenh polh- oti se mia allh polh ths Elladas yphrxe h piqanothta na ginei tromokratiko xtyphma, den ofeilame na paroyme metra kai se ayth thn polh; Den eixame labei ta idia metra sthn Tripolh, opws sthn Aqhna, oyte sth Larisa kai to Bolo. Yphrxe diabaqmish twn metrwn. Prepei na synektimhqei mia seira stoixeiwn. Efoson ayta proskomistoyn, basei aytwn, to Symboylio twn Ypoyrgwn qa odhghqei se apofaseis, me sobarothta kai oxi syzhtwntas genikws kai aoristws.

TSIODRAS: To erwthma moy paramenei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas anefera mia seira apo synqhkes poy den einai gnwstes ayth thn wra. Eseis lete na topoqethqw epi synqhkwn poy den einai gnwstes. Sas apantw oti qa htan oxi aplws laqos, alla mh sobaro.

TSIODRAS: Egw lew to ejhs: Oti qa mporoyse na einai mia qesh arxhs, h opoia leei oti ``koitajte na deite@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na thn epanalabw gia tetarth fora th qesh arxhs;

TSIODRAS: Bebaiws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw epanalabei, hdh, treis fores poia einai h qesh arxhs gia to Syntagma kai thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn. Apo ekei kai pera, an yparjoyn plhrofories oti mporei na ginei ena xtyphma se mia allh xwra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, ayth h xwra qa prepei na mhn kanei tipote;

KAKALHS: Ayta poy mas anaptyjate prohgoymenws, ayth h syllogistikh kai ta epixeirhmata einai giati h Ellada qa prepei na pei nai sto Symboylio kai oxi giati qa prepei na pei oxi. H periptwsh toy oxi, dhladh, einai apokleismenh ek twn proterwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean dexqoyme oti yperanw olwn brisketai o sebasmos sthn anqrwpinh zwh kai h prostasia ths, tote h yperbash poy kanete den exei kamia bash se ayth th syzhthsh. O sebasmos sthn anqrwpinh zwh einai panw apo ola. Epanalambanw, loipon, oti den yparxei ayth th stigmh kati sygkekrimeno. Eimaste mia asfalhs xwra, enas asfalhs toyristikos proorismos. To mono poy ginetai me thn epanalhch ayths ths syzhthshs einai na dhmioyrgoyme erwthmata ekei poy den prepei. Den dhmioyrghqhkan antistoixa erwthmata, sto baqmo poy dhmioyrgoyntai shmera se ayth thn aiqoysa, perysi poy eixame toys Olympiakoys Agwnes. Qa parakalesw oloys mas na mhn prospaqoyme na ``shkwsoyme'' ena qema, kaloproaireta dhmosiografika panta, to opoio se kaqe periptwsh den wfelei th xwra.

BLAXOS: Giati den wfelei th xwra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia toys logoys poy eipate kai eseis prohgoymenws. Gia ton toyrismo.

KYRITSHS: Me bash thn epixeirhmatologia poy molis anaptyjate, qelw na kanw dyo erwthseis. H prwth einai, ean kata thn proolympiakh kai olympiakh periodo eixe epiblhqei arsh toy thlefwnikoy aporrhtoy sthn Ellada. Ean moy apanthsete oxi, einai profanes oti sto metro poy den efarmosthke kati tetoio sthn periodo poy mas endiefere kata meizona logo, einai paralogo na efarmosoyme kati tetoio twra poy den mas afora amesa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn ginei anakoinwseis sto parelqon -giati milame gia ena xrono prin- kai apo thn kybernhsh kai apo thn Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn. Sas parakalw na tis janadiabasete. Oson afora sto deytero erwthma sas, exw apanthsei hdh se mia seira erwthsewn poy einai antistoixh me th dikh sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Akoyme kaqe mera na syzhtoyn gia to dieyqyntiko dikaiwma. Yparxei ayto mesa sto nomosxedio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, den exei katateqei akomh nomoqetikh ryqmish sth Boylh. Ginetai mia seira apo syzhthseis. Qa exete thn eykairia poly syntoma kai apo ton k. Panagiwtopoylo kai apo ton k. Alogoskoyfh, na maqete th nomoqetikh ryqmish.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pote qa doqei ayth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pisteyw poly syntoma.

SIDERHS: Ginetai shmera syskech gia to D` KPS;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poy ennoeite oti ginetai syskech;

SIDERHS: O Prwqypoyrgos gi ayto syzhtaei@

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos syzhta me ton k. Alogoskoyfh kai ton k. Panagiwtopoylo mia seira qematwn twn dyo ypoyrgeiwn.

SIDERHS: Xqes mas milhsate gia plhqwra ependysewn kai shmera blepoyme oti exoyme ptwsh ths biomhxanikhs paragwghs kata 2,3%. Entassetai kai ayto stis ependyseis poy exoyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta aithmata poy ypoblhqhkan me to nomo 3299/2004 kata forea entajhs ews tis 7.7.05.

Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn: Ariqmos aithmatwn 54. Ycos ependysewn 632.792.950 eyrw.

Perifereia Attikhs: Aithmata 2. Ycos ependysewn 825.661.000

Perifereia Anatolikhs Makedonias-Qrakhs: Aithmata 14. Ycos ependysewn 19.810.211 eyrw.

Perifereia Kentrikhs Makedonias: Aithmata 38. Ycos ependysewn 61.588.649 eyrw.

Perifereia Dytikhs Makedonias: Aithmata 6. Ycos ependysewn 8.381.599 eyrw.

Perifereia Qessalias: Aithmata 14. Ycos ependysewn 10.849.337 eyrw.

Perifereia Stereas Elladas: Aithmata 15. Ycos ependysewn 18.089.545 eyrw.

Perifereia Hpeiroy: Aithmata 26. Ycos ependysewn 27.375.497 eyrw.

Perifereia Peloponnhsoy: Aithmata 7. Ycos ependysewn 5.648.188 eyrw.

Perifereia Dytikhs Elladas: Aithmata 19. Ycos ependysewn 14.585.299 eyrw.

Perifereia Krhths: Aithmata 40. Ycos ependysewn 46.481.695 eyrw.

Perifereia Ioniwn Nhswn: Aithmata 2. Ycos ependysewn 1.809.355 eyrw.

Perifereia Boreioy Aigaioy: Aithmata 4. Ycos ependysewn 6.216.010 eyrw.

Perifereia Notioy Aigaioy: Aithmata 4. Ycos ependysewn 3.728.686 eyrw.

Grafeio Anaptyjhs Dwdekanhsoy: Aithmata 4. Ycos ependysewn 6.530.000 eyrw.

Apo oles aytes exoyn egkriqei hdh kapoia aithmata se kaqe Perifereia kai ston toyrismo.

Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Aithmata 15. Ycos ependysewn 57.674.000 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 24.199.770 eyrw.

Perifereia Anatolikhs Makedonias-Qrakhs: Ycos ependysewn 12.455.189 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 5.672.252 eyrw.

Perifereia Kentrikhs Makedonias: Aithmata 7. (Milaw twra gia tis egkriseis poy exoyn ginei, giati sto metajy diasthma apo to nomo yparxoyn oi ypoboles twn aithsewn, h meleth twn fakelwn kai oi hdh egkriqeises epixorhghseis). Ycos ependysewn 13.220.800 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 5.576.762 eyrw.

Perifereia Qessalias: Ependyseis 4. Ycos ependysewn 2.746.000. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 938.000 eyrw.

Perifereia Hpeiroy: Ependyseis 2. Ycos ependysewn 2.700.000. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 1.455.000 eyrw.

Perifereia Peloponnhsoy. Ependysh 1. Ycos ependysewn 1.280.000 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 512.000 eyrw.

Perifereia Dytikhs Elladas: Ependyseis 5. Ycos ependysewn 4.820.500 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 2.350.500 eyrw.

Perifereia Krhth: Ependyseis 18. Ycos ependysewn 16.557.000. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 7.029.550 eyrw.

Perifereia Boreioy Aigaioy: Ependyseis 2. Ycos ependysewn 3.335.291 eyrw. Egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 1.844.960 eyrw.

Synolo ycoys ependysewn poy exoyn hdh egkriqei me fakeloys poy einai akoma se ereyna, se ejelijh dhladh twn diadikasiwn 561.310.671 eyrw. Me aitoymenh epixorhghsh gi ayta ta xrhmata 243.723.472 eyrw. Kai exoyme sto ycos twn ependysewn synolo gia osoys fakeloys exoyn mexri twra melethqei 114.416.434 eyrw. Kai egkriqeisa epixorhghsh 50.541.894 eyrw.

Ayto poy sas diabasa einai mono gia ton anaptyjiako nomo. Den exei na kanei me tis ependyseis, oi opoies epi seiran etwn, esyronto me grafeiokratikes diadikasies kai gia tis opoies, opws gnwrizete, exei ginei poly doyleia gia na apemplakoyn apo grafeiokratikes diadikasies. Einai ena kommati twn ependysewn poy ginetai ws apotelesma toy anaptyjiakoy nomoy, poy chfise prin apo ligoys mhnes, h kybernhsh sth Boylh.

BLAXOS: Ara, h oikonomia paei kala. Ara, den pisteyw na skefteste na parete prosqeta metra. Ayto mas lete. Oti h oikonomia paei kala.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qesate to erwthma dyo fores thn prohgoymenh ebdomada kai mia ayth thn ebdomada.

BLAXOS: Sas eyxaristw poly. Me ikanopoihsate apolyta. Alla, na kanw mia erwthsh: Ara, h oikonomia symfwna me ayta ta stoixeia poy dinete paei poly kala, ara den yparxei sto myalo ths kybernhsh h lhch prosqetwn metrwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Profanws agnoeite basikoys kanones ths oikonomias. Exw apanthsei sto prwto qema sto opoio anafereste, polles fores sthn politikh enhmerwsh. Einai teleiws diaforetikh h logikh poy anaptyssete, syntaytizontas mhla me portokalia. Milame gia ependyseis, dhmioyrgia newn ependysewn, nees qeseis ergasias. Ayto poy anaferate eseis einai kakh diaxeirish mias eikosaetias me megala elleimmata, Eyrwpaikh Enwsh h opoia oysiastika odhgei th xwra me tis symfwnies poy eixe h xwra ypogracei, sto na thrhsei tis desmeyseis kai tis ypoxrewseis ths gia to elleimma. Se o,ti afora to prosqeto poy anaferate: Epanalambanw oti exw hdh apanthsei dyo fores thn perasmenh ebdomada kai mia ayth thn ebdomada sthn politikh enhmerwsh mas.

KOTTARIDHS: To PASOK kathgorei thn kybernhsh oti otan htan sthn antipoliteysh eixe sthrijei prosfyges sygkekrimenoy epixeirhmatia sta Eyrwpaika Dikasthria, me apotelesma na exoyn mplokarei gia polla xronia ta erga ston Maliako. Exete kapoio sxolio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To PASOK qa prepei na apodeijei ta legomena toy, dioti, oytws h allws, exei synhqisei na leei aerologies ston kosmo.

KAKKALHS: Ta stoixeia poy mas eipate prohgoymenws einai leica, giati den anaferoyn poses nees qeseis ergasias exoyn dhmioyrghqei apo aytes tis ependyseis kai poso stoixizoyn aytes oi nees qeseis ergasias, me bash tis egkriqeises epixorhghseis. Poso stoixizoyn sto kratos, dhladh, aytes oi nees qeseis ergasias, afoy einai epixorhgoymenes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas endiaferei to deytero h to prwto; Dhladh, sas enoxlei@

KAKALHS: Ean einai dynaton@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas enoxlei ean qa stoixisoyn sto kratos kapoies nees qeseis ergasias; Makari na stoixisei sto kratos kai na dhmioyrgoyntai nees qeseis ergasias.

KAKALHS: Einai kalo na exoyme kai ayto to stoixeio, alla ayto poy me endiaferei einai poses einai oi nees qeseis ergasias apo ayta ta lefta poy dinete stoys epixeirhmaties;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto qa to deite poly syntoma. Edw milame gia ena pentamhno apo tote poy efarmosthke o nomos kai exoyme hdh shmantika apotelesmata apo ayton. Kai eseis qelete mesa se pente mhnes na sas pw ton akribh ariqmo twn newn qesewn ergasias: Opws gnwrizete, mia ependysh xreiazetai ena orismeno xroniko diasthma gia na anaptyxqei. Apo thn ypobolh ths meleths sto Ypoyrgeio kai thn egkrish -kai malista se poly syntomo xroniko diasthma opws diapistwsate apo to ligo xroniko diasthma poy perase apo tote poy chfisthke aytos o nomos- qa exete syntoma elpizw kai tis apanthseis sta erwthmata poy qetete.

KAKALHS: En leykw ta dinete ta lefta stoys epixeirhmaties; Den yparxei kapoia proypoqesh gia qeseis ergasias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporw na sas ejasfalisw mia adeia ean qelete gia na episkefqeite to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias prokeimenoy na ereynhsete monos sas toys fakeloys.

TSIODRAS: Mias kai eimaste sto skelos twn ependysewn qa hqele na jerw mias kai eida oti exete arketa stoixeia mazi sas, to pososto twn ameswn jenwn ependysewn to 2004 kai to prwto ejamhno toy 2005.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa enhmerwqw apo to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias, gia na mhn kathgorhqw apo toys synadelfoys sas toy oikonomikoy reportaz, oti pairnw th doyleia toys.

TSIODRAS: Oxi. Mias kai anaferqhkate stis ependyseis, nomizw oti@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Shmera hmoyn proetoimasmenos, giati egine erwthsh xqes kai yposxeqhka oti qa apanthsw shmera. Thrhsa thn yposxesh moy, prospaqwntas na eimai entajei apenanti sas sthn enhmerwsh, thn opoia prohgoymenws kathgorhsan orismenoi ej ymwn.

TSIODRAS: Ayto to erwthma qa hqela toylaxiston ayrio, ean einai dynaton, na apanthqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa to dwsw sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias gia na exete apanthsh.

BLAXOS: Jeperasate thn prohgoymenh erwthsh me ton oro ``aerologies''. Omws, peran ths antiparaqeshs PASOK kai Neas Dhmokratias yparxei mia pragmatikothta, kyrie Ypoyrge: Yparxei mia prosfygh, exei stamathsei ena ergo apo sygkekrimeno epixeirhmatia. H kybernhsh protiqetai na kanei kati; Ton sygkekrimeno epixeirhmatia nomizw oloi ton gnwrizoyme. Qa mporoyse na ginei mia prospaqeia na arei tis prosfyges, gia na proxwrhsei ayto to ergo, gia na mhn qrhnoyme synexeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw dyo pragmata: To prwto einai oti sthn synhqeia toy PASOK na xeirizetai ta pragmata etsi opws ta xeiristhke@

BLAXOS: Mh me bazete sth logikh toy PASOK, egw den milhsa gia PASOK. Egw milaw gia thn pragmatikothta. Mh me bazete sth diadikasia sygkroyshs PASOK kai Neas Dhmokratias. Edw krinontai kai xanontai zwes. Na mpoyme se ayth th diadikasia perissotero kai na apofygoyme thn politikh antiparaqesh. Einai ena qema poy afora poly kosmo. Einai aplo. Ki eseis odhgeite kai eseis pernate me thn oikogeneia sas apo ekei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na apantw. Exw thn entypwsh oti akoma kai ean sxoliasa se spanies periptwseis tis erwthseis sas afhsa na tis ypoballete. Ara, qa sas parakalesw poly na moy epitrecete na apanthsw.

Elega, loipon, dyo pragmata: To PASOK synhqismeno se mia logikh toy ``paizei paixnidia me epixeirhmaties'' -kai ayto fanhke kai me toys nomoys poy ekane se polles periptwseis kai me th diaplokh poy kataggeilame- nomizei oti ayth h logikh ejakoloyqei na yparxei. Den yparxei.

Opws gnwrizete, yparxoyn nomoi kai aytoi oi nomoi throyntai. Ean yparxei kaqysterhsh sthn apofash orismenwn dikasthriwn, egine mia prospaqeia apo ton Ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs -prin apo peripoy ena mhna- sth Boylh, prokeimenoy na bohqhqei to dikastiko swma na proxwrhsei pio grhgora aytes tis ypoqeseis. Bebaiws, den kanei kanenan na hsyxazei to gegonos oti se orismenes perioxes exoyme dystyxhmata, eite ej ameleias ths Politeias, opws se polles periptwseis, eite ej ameleias twn odhgwn se orismenes periptwseis. Den qa ta balw me toys odhgoys, den qa ta balw me toys polites, alimono. Ekeino poy qa pw, omws, einai oti h Politeia, toys teleytaioys mhnes sto sygkekrimeno kommati toy eqnikoy dromoy ston Maliako exei prospaqhsei kai exei proxwrhsei me poly grhgoroys ryqmoys. Hdh o k. Soyflias ekane ekteneis anakoinwseis gia ta erga poy etoimazontai sthn perioxh. To Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajews me diarkeis peripolies ths Troxaias, exontas enisxysei eidika ekeino to tmhma, prospaqei. Exoyn topoqethqei kameres. Kaneis den einai eyxaristhmenos apo to gegonos oti skotwnontai anqrwpoi, eite einai paidia, eite einai megalhs hlikias. Einai deigma politismoy ths xwras. Kai se ayto exete apolyto dikio. Qlibomaste oloi gi ayto poy symbainei. H prospaqeia poy kanei toys teleytaioys mhnes h kybernhsh eidika sto xwro poy anaferqhkate, sas analyqhke sta tria shmeia poy sas anefera. To prwto, gia ton k. Soyflia poy exei kanei anakoinwseis kai exei proxwrhsei kommatia toy ergoy. To deytero gia ton k. Boylgarakh, me thn enisxysh twn peripoliwn ths Troxaias twn eqnikwn odwn. Kai to trito, poy einai synarmodiothtas YPEXWDE kai Dhmosias Tajews gia thn topoqethsh kameras ana takta diasthmata se ekeino to kommati prokeimenoy na mporesoyme na apotrecoyme oso perissotero ginetai ta atyxhmata.

SIDERHS: Kat` arxas, otan anaferomaste se mia kataggelia toy PASOK, den ejyphretoyme to PASOK, oyte to yphretoyme, to idio kaname otan ki eseis kanate kataggelies sto@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati to lete ayto; Eipa egw kati tetoio; Parakalw na ejhghsete stoys synadelfoys sas kai se emena giati to lete ayto. Egw dexomai thn erwthsh poy egine.

SIDERHS: Qa anaferqw ki egw sto PASOK. To PASOK kanei kai mia allh kataggelia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dexomai thn opoia erwthsh ginetai. Eipa kai prohgoymenws, akoma ki ean exw sxoliasei merikes fores erwthseis -kai to jerete kai to jerw oti exw sxoliasei, den qa pw cemata- oydepote diekoca kapoion apo to na qesei thn erwthsh toy. Gi ayto zhthsa thn anoxh na apanthsw. Nomizw oti gi ayton ton logo eimai edw.

SIDERHS: Entajei. To PASOK kanei kai mia allh kataggelia, oti o sygkekrimenos epixeirhmatias enw eixe xasei prosfyges, mphke apo to paraqyro sta erga toy Maliakoy. Qa yparjei apanthsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Soyflias exei hdh apanthsei se mia seira erwthsewn gia ta erga ston Maliako, me aformh kai ta dystyxhmata poy anaferqhkan prohgoymenws. Ean to PASOK exei na pei kati eidikotera na to pei kai to YPEXWDE qa dwsei thn apanthsh toy. Alla aytes oi aerologies, epanalambanw, toy PASOK einai kati to synhqes.

KAKALHS: Epeidh den gnwrizete na mas peite poses qeseis ergasias exoyn dhmioyrghqei apo to neo Anaptyjiako nomo@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pantws epixeirhsh xwris ergazomenoys den yparxei, ayto na to paradexqeite. Otan dhmioyrgeitai mia epixeirhsh qelei kai ergazomenoys. Ara, dhmioyrgoyntai kai qeseis ergasias. Den gnwrizw na sas pw ton akribh ariqmo.

KAKALHS: To periergo einai oti dinete xrhmata xwris na jerete poses qeseis ergasias dhmioyrgoyntai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati to lete ayto; Otan sas eipa prin na pate sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias@

KAKALHS: Giati to qewrw entelws logiko mia kybernhsh poy xrhmatodotei mia ependysh na mhn dinei me th sesoyla kai en leykw ta lefta xwris na@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pws gnwrizete oti dinontai me th sesoyla kai en leykw, opws lete.

KAKALHS: Eseis ta eipate. Exete dwsei hdh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto sas eipa; Anefera ta xrhmatika posa poy dinontai gia ependyseis. Gia na doqoyn ayta ta xrhmata kapoioi anqrwpoi, empeirognwmones, dhmosioi ypallhloi poy yphretoyn th doyleia toys kai to kratos exoyn kanei meletes gia na doyn poy qa doqoyn kai posa. Sas diabasa kai twn ariqmo twn aithsewn, to poso twn aitoymenwn xrhmatwn kai ta posa poy enekriqhsan. Exete na proteinete allh diadikasia;

KAKALHS: Den mas eipate omws@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eseis apajiwnete syllhbdhn oloys toys ypallhloys poy doyleyoyn sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, legontas oti ta dinei opoy qelei h kybernhsh.

KAKALHS: Eseis den krinete skopimo na mas peite ayta ta stoixeia gia tis nees qeseis ergasias kai ayto einai to zhthma. Ayth einai h dikh moy apoch, alla hqela na prosqesw oti afoy den dhmioyrgoyntai me ayton to nomo qeseis ergasias, pws dhmioyrgoyntai nees qeseis ergasias me to nomo gia th dieyqethsh ergasias, otan o ergodoths qa mporei na ekmetalleyetai ton ergazomeno me perissoteres wres ergasias kai na mhn plhrwnei kai tis yperwries toy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To ``ligoteres'' sas diefyge; Giati lete ``perissoteres'';

KAKALHS: To ``ligoteres'' einai abebaio. Einai abebaio stis synqhkes agoras poy epikratoyn ayth th stigmh. To ``ligoteres'' einai abebaio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas ejhghsa me safhneia, dinontas sas ena paradeigma, gia mia toyristikh epixeirhsh. Mporoyme na to epekteinoyme se opoiadhpote allh epixeirhsh. Otan hmoyn ergazomenos dhmosiografos qymamai oti ta kyriakatika fylla gia na ekdoqoyn hqelan th doyleia twn dhmosiografwn kai thn Paraskeyh to apogeyma kai to brady kai to Sabbato olh mera. Pws ergazontai shmera oi dhmosiografoi; Ergazontai teleiws diaforetika. Yparxei allh eyelijia sto wrario twn dhmosiografwn shmera. Eseis oi idioi to gnwrizete sthn kaqhmerinothta sas. Exoyn allajei pleon oi wres. Giati h politikh enhmerwsh, thn Paraskeyh, ginetai stis 12:30 kai den ginetai stis 13:00; Giati oysiastika oi efhmerides exoyn kleisei nwritera. Giati exoyn allajei oi wres kai oi oroi. Giati dhladh ston klado twn dhmosiografwn, twn ekdosewn, twn efhmeridwn, mporoyme na to dexqoyme kai den mporoyme na to dexqoyme se mia toyristikh epixeirhsh, h opoia qelei na kerdisei xrhmata, ep` wfeleia ths epixeirhshs, ara kai twn ergazomenwn kai ths eqnikhs oikonomias sthn krisimh kamph, sthn periodo aixmhs toy toyrismoy. Anefera ena paradeigma poy sas eipa kai xqes.

KAKALHS: Einai mh sygkrisimo, oi dhmosiografoi den exoyn oktawro.

BLAXOS: Poly wraio to paradeigma sas. Alla, oi dhmosiografoi doylecan persi sthn Olympiada, rwthsete posoi synadelfoi phran to ypoloipo ths adeias. Rwthste kai peite mas ayrio, ean mporeite. Pente-deka to poly stoys 2.000 ergazomenoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw ean egkaleite to syndikalistiko Swmateio h toys idioys toys dhmosiografoys. Den mporw na sas apanthsw. Pantws na eiste bebaios oti ean ginei mia kataggelia sto Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs, qa yparjei h diadikasia ekeinh poy qa epibalei kai kyrwseis se osoys den edwsan thn adeia.

KAKALHS: Ayto deixnei gia to ti qa ginei kai me toys alloys ergazomenoys, otan einai na paroyn tis adeies toys@

ROYSOPOYLOS: O ergazomenos exei dikaiwmata kai prepei na ta diekdikei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mhpws mporeite na mas peite ean oristikopoihqhke h episkech toy k. Karamanlh sthn Agkyra, metajy 22 kai 25 Aygoystoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei oristikopoihqei akomh h hmeromhnia, alla einai poly piqano na pragmatopoihqei pros to telos Aygoystoy.

BLAXOS: Prin ton anasxhmatismo h meta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei se ayto to erwthma.

BLAXOS: Prin h meta ton anasxhmatismo, gia na jerw poios qa einai Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn. Giati o k. Molybiaths exei pei: Analoga me ton xrono poy qa ginei to tajidi, qa einai Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn kai qa synodeyei ton Prwqypoyrgo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Molybiaths qa synodeysei ton Prwqypoyrgo, ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn.

Sas eyxaristw.

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