Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-06-28

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 28 Ioynioy 2005

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 12:30, qa exei synanthsh, sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Ypoyrgo Epikrateias ths Saoydikhs Arabias k. Ampntoylax Mpin Axmet Zeinal Ali Renta.

Oloklhrwqhke prin apo ligo h synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs. Antikeimeno syzhthshs htan qemata agrotikhs politikhs. O armodios Ypoyrgos k. Mpasiakos, ejerxomenos toy Megaroy Majimoy proebh se analytikes dhlwseis, o opoios qa paraxwrhsei synenteyjh Typoy, shmera h ayrio, stoys syntaktes toy Ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: H kybernhsh exei enhmerwqei gia thn katastash poy dhmioyrghqhke to prwi ejw apo thn Ejarxeia toy Panagioy Tafoy sthn Plaka;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw.

BLAXOS: Eisebalan mesa, spasane tis kleidaries kai katelaban to xwro.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai katakritea opoiadhpote tetoia energeia, opws ayth poy perigrafete.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h kybernhsh protiqetai na anoijei to asfalistiko;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei ayto poy sas exw pei se ayth thn aiqoysa kai thn prohgoymenh ebdomada. To epanelabe xqes kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs. H kybernhsh exei hdh proxwrhsei se mia syzhthsh, prin apo peripoy dyo mhnes, me thn OKE, h opoia kai anelabe prwtoboylia na syzhthsei me oloys toys armodioys koinwnikoys foreis. Einai ena zhthma gia to opoio -opws sas eixa pei kai tote- prepei oloi na proetoimazomaste. Isxyoyn osa eixame pei kai den exei allajei apolytws tipota.

GKOYTZANHS: O k. Alogoskoyfhs eipe pantws xqes oti den qa ginei dialogos mono sto plaisio ths OKE alla kai sth Boylh kai genikotera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

GKOYTZANHS: Ara anoigei o dialogos gia to asfalistiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pote den krycame oti anoigei o dialogos. Eipame oti den tiqetai qema Asfalistikoy twra. Qa sas parakaloysa na diabasete thn analytikh anafora thn opoia ekane, xqes, o k. Alogoskoyfhs, kaqws kai tis anafores poy ekana ki egw prin apo ligo kairo edw, giati dinoyn apanthseis se polla apo ta erwthmata sas. H anafora katalhgei me to qema toy dialogoy: O dialogos qa apaithsei xrono poy jeperna thn kybernhtikh qhteia. Ara isxyoyn osa exoyme pei mexri twra. Den exei allajei tipota.

SIDERHS: H filologia sas peri diaplokhs kai diaplekomenwn proeklogika, mas eixe kanei otan ektojeyqhke kai h frash ``ntabatzhdes'', na pistecoyn oti oi diaplekomenoi htan oi ``ntabatzhdes''. Me tis ejelijeis twn teleytaiwn hmerwn kai tis xqesines ston OPAP, blepoyme oti oi ``ntabatzhdes'' telika htan ta klamp twn pronomioyxwn opws oi trapezoyplallhloi kai oxi oi diaplekomenoi. Einai etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den einai etsi.

SIDERHS: Tote giati isxyei h rhsh Orfanoy oti qa mpoyne oi ellhnikes omades sto STOIXHMA, afoy to STOIXHMA to diaxeirizetai h INTRALOT kati poy eseis to eixate aporricei, to eixate diaceysei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sthn politikh enhmerwsh ths 1hs Ioynioy 2005 eixame syzhthsei analytika to qema. Qa sas parakaloysa na thn anazhthsete gia na deite ti akribws exw dhlwsei.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Epeidh exw mprosta moy to briefing ths 01/06, qa hqela na paw omws ligo argotera. Stis 26/11/1999, otan o Prwqypoyrgos ypografei prwtos, mazi me olh thn koinoboyleytikh omada thn protash gia systash Ejetastikhs Epitrophs gi` ayto to qema. Metajy allwn, anaferetai oti: H anakhryjh ths INTRALOT se anadoxo etaireia gia thn ektelesh toy ergoy prokalei terastio qema anajiopistias ston ypo kaqierwsh aqlhtikwn stoixhmatwn kaqws o kyrios metoxos ths symbainei na einai idiokthths omadwn podosfairoy kai mpasket, agwnes twn opoiwn piqanotata qa symperilhfqoyn kai sta deltia stoixhmatos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ekane akribws thn idia erwthsh, prin apo 22 hmeres o k. Blaxos kai exei parei apanthsh.

BLAXOS: Mhpws mporeite na epanalabete thn apanthsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na deite to briefing.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Exw thn apanthsh poy dwsate ston k. Blaxo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H anafora sto keimeno poy diabasate, kaqws kai h apanthsh moy epishmainoyn dyo pragmata: To asymbibasto kai ayto epishmainetai kai xqes -ws deytero to lew ayto- sthn anakoinwsh toy OPAP. Den allazei tipote apo tote.

BLAXOS: Poy shmainei oti mexri ton Septembrio poy qa arxisei h diadikasia ayth qa yparxoyn ejelijeis sto qema ths etaireias poy diaxeirizetai to STOIXHMA;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws sas eixa pei kai tote yparxoyn dyo meletes: H mia meleth exei oloklhrwqei. H deyterh meleth einai se ejelijh. Sas elega tote, oti meletatai h stadiakh eisagwgh twn agwnwn toy ellhnikoy prwtaqlhmatos sto ``PAME STOIXHMA'' k.lp. Sth synexeia, apantwntas se erwthsh toy k. Blaxoy, kaqws kai toy k. Siderh, epeshmana oti qa ginei -an telikws ginei, an ektimhqei oti einai prosodoforo gia ton Organismo- efoson proxwrhsei kai h deyterh meleth kai exei labei apofash epi toy deyteroy qematos dhladh na analabei th diagwnistikh diadikasia o idios o OPAP. Poso pio jekaqara na to pw, anarwtiomoyn tote. O OPAP anakoinwse xqes oti analambanei o idios th diagwnistikh diadikasia me th lhjh ayths ths symbashs. Epishs, anakoinwse th meleth gia thn eisagwgh, dokimastika, kapoiwn -h kapoias kai oxi mias sygkekrimenhs, mporei na einai mia ariqmhtika endexomenws, alla den qa einai sygkekrimenh- omadwn toy ellhnikoy prwtaqlhmatos sto STOIXHMA. Epishs o OPAP anakoinwse oti bebaiws meletwntai kai qa katagrafoyn ta opoiadhpote asymbibasta yparxoyn. Akribws opws sas to eixa pei kai tote.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, o Olympiakos qa einai sto STOIXHMA mesa; Giati o Kokalhs einai kai sto ena kai sto allo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eimai Ekproswpos toy OPAP. Eimai Ekproswpos ths kybernhshs. H kybernhsh exei orisei to geniko qesmiko plaisio. Sas lew oti meletwntai kai bebaiws qa yparjei mia seira asymbibastwn. To erwthma sas qa apanthqei me th deyterh meleth thn opoia etoimazei o OPAP kai qa doqei sth dhmosiothta. Qa doqei dhladh to keimeno ekeino to opoio qa leei: Epitrepetai diagwnistikh diadikasia, as poyme, gia th Eurovision -giati qa perilambanei kai kallitexnika gegonota- gia to polo, gia mia seira allwn aqlhmatwn. Mhn estiazoyme mono sto podosfairo. Sto podosfairo, se alla aqlhmata kai opoydhpote alloy, qa yparjei mia seira apo asymbibasta. Ayta ta asymbibasta qa katagrafoyn. H prwth meleth gia thn opoia sas miloysa tote, oloklhrwqhke. H deyterh meleth qa oloklhrwqei kai ayth kai qa katagrafoyn ta asymbibasta ta opoia qa sas anakoinwqoyn.

KAKALHS: Dhladh to orama kai to oneiro toy Prwqypoyrgoy, toy k. Karamanlh, htan na analabei to kratos, na diadwsei ton tzogo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To entelws antiqeto.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, me sygxwreite an sas@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas sygxwrw sigoyra. Oytws h allws den qewrw oti oi erwthseis ypoballontai edw gia na epitimhsoyn emena h thn kybernhsh. Ypoballontai gia na kanete th doyleia sas kalytera.

KAKALHS: To protypo poy didei pros thn koinwnia kai th neolaia einai na to rijoyn ston tzogo gia na doyn kalyteres meres;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To entelws antiqeto.

KAKALHS: Giati antiqeto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dioti oytws h allws h kybernhsh exei dhlwsei thn proqesh ths na proxwrhsei se idiwtikopoihsh toy OPAP. Otan loipon, pisteyei h kybernhsh oti o tzogos den mporei na einai antikeimeno drasthriothtas toy kratoys, antilambaneste oti aytes oi diadikasies poy ginontai twra einai akribws sthn antiqeth kateyqynsh apo ayth poy perigracate eseis.

TSIODRAS: Ep` aytoy. Den katalabainw th syllogistikh sas. Lete oti ginetai to antiqeto giati h idiwtikopoieitai o OPAP. Tote an dwsete adeies se para polles idiwtikes etaireies shmainei oti den enisxyete ton tzogo; Dhladh, to zhthma einai an to kanei to kratos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Rwthqhka gia to kratos, rwthqhka gia thn kybernhsh. Kai apanthsa gia thn kybernhsh. H kybernhsh exei ypoxrewsh@

TSIODRAS: Ma h kybernhsh dinei tis@

ROYSOPOYLOS: @na orizei to qesmiko plaisio. Otan loipon, h erwthsh toy synadelfoy sas htan sygkekrimena gia to an h kybernhsh prowqei to tzogo, phre apanthsh. An qelete na kanete allh erwthsh, eyxaristws na sas apanthsw.

TSIODRAS: Oxi, h erwthsh htan poly sygkekrimenh. To an dwsei, den exei shmasia an askeitai apo mia kratikh etaireia o tzogos h oxi, alla an dwsei h kybernhsh se idiwtikes etaireies th dynatothta na askoyn tzogo, tote sygnwmh, to prowqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epi ths arxhs@

TSIODRAS: Ma kai ta froytakia, otan eixe ginei h olh istoria tote, kai eixe antidrasei h Nea Dhmokratia entona, den qa ta ekane to kratos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epi ths arxhs, opws to qetete, mporei na exete dikio. As doyme omws thn pragmatikothta. Poia einai h pragmatikothta; Qeloyme mia xwra sthn opoia den qa yparxei, kanenos eidoys tetoio paixnidi; An ayto epiqymoyme, einai ena allo zhthma. Oles oi xwres, opws gnwrizete, xrhsimopoioyn tetoioy eidoys mesa gia na exoyn esoda.

TSIODRAS: Oxi, emena moy aresei o tzogos. Eseis ton kataggellete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Emena den moy aresei. Den exei, omws, kamia shmasia ayto, einai proswpikes ektimhseis peri goystoy. Alla, einai ena zhthma, to opoio isxyei se olo ton kosmo. H Politeia einai ypoxrewmenh na orizei qesmiko plaisio.

SARANTAKOS: H seira twn asymbibastwn poy qa teqoyn twra, isxyoyn mono mexri to diasthma poy isxyei kai h symbash me thn INTRALOT@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi bebaia.

SARANTAKOS: @ H qa isxyei kai meta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa yparxei mia seira apo asymbibasta, ta opoia qa isxysoyn @ayta qa sas anakoinwqoyn apo ton OPAP, otan qa einai etoimh h meleth toy- kai qa dhmioyrghqoyn kanones antikeimenikhs leitoyrgias aytoy toy neoy paignioy.

SARANTAKOS: Kai an meta to diagwnismo toy 2007 parei to paixnidi enas epixeirhmatias poy den exei sxesh me to podosfairo, osh exei twra o epixeirhmatias ths INTRALOT, qa isxyoyn kai pali ta asymbibasta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy zhtate na sas apanthsw kanontas th doyleia ths Epitrophs h opoia qa apofasisei gia ta asymbibasta. Antilambaneste oti den mporei na ginei ayto.

SIDERHS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai kai Ypoyrgos Politismoy. Qelei na syndesei ayth toy thn idiothta, me thn eisagwgh kallitexnikwn ekdhlwsewn sto tzogo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai to erwthma sas. An ennoeite oti kakws ola ayta ta xronia dinontai xrhmata yper ths prowqhshs toy politismoy apo ta xrhmata poy kerdizei o OPAP, na to peite.

SIDERHS: Einai allo ayto kai allo na bazei kaneis kallitexnika gegonota..

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ektos kai an den gnwrizete, oti edw kai polla xronia, polla apo ta xrhmata poy bohqoyn tis politistikes drasthriothtes aytoy toy topoy, proerxontai apo ton OPAP.

SIDERHS: Bebaiws to gnwrizoyme, alla einai diaforetiko ayto kai diaforetiko ta idia ta gegonota na mpainoyn ston tzogo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den katalabainw ti ennoeite ``ta idia ta gegonota''. Gegonos den einai enas podosfairikos agwnas sto PRO-PO; Den eixame 1,2,X sto PRO-PO kai to exoyme akoma;

GKOYTZANHS: Den einai kallitexniko gegonos@

ROYSOPOYLOS: To PRO-PO, loipon, to laxeio apoferoyn esoda. Ena poly megalo pososto apo ayta ta esoda, opws gnwrizete, phgainei yper ths prowqhshs toy Aqlhtismoy kai toy Politismoy, symfwna me ton kanonismo toy OPAP. Ayto einai gnwsto, xronia twra, s` ayto ton topo.

BLAXOS: Mia kai eimaste s` ayto to pneyma, eseis ti stoixhma qa bazate; Qa aposyrei thn tropologia o k. Ebert h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw balei mexri twra kanena stoixhma. Mh me bazete s` ayto ton peirasmo.

BLAXOS: Nai. Ti qa legate loipon gia thn tropologia; Qa thn aposyrei o k. Ebert h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporw na to gnwrizw. Rwthste ton k. Ebert.

BLAXOS: Eseis ton rwthsate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

BLAXOS: Qa ton parete thlefwno;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

BLAXOS: Den exete periergeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

POYLIDOY: Qa hqela na rwthsete kai na mas plhroforhsete ayrio poies htan oi aneilhmmenes ypoxrewseis toy Ypoyrgoy Politismoy kai twn dyo Yfypoyrgwn poy toys empodisan na pareyreqoyn sthn khdeia toy Manolh Anagnwstakh, xqes. Dioti qewrw oti h prosfora ths khdeias dhmosia dapanh profanws den exei na kanei me ta ejoda mias khdeias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O sebasmos kai h timh se mia proswpikothta poy feygei den apodeiknyetai apofasistika, kaqoristika kai pantws telika me to na symmetasxei kapoios sthn ejodio akoloyqia.

POYLIDOY: Me th fysikh paroysia para poly.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O sebasmos apodeiknyetai apo to poso sebesai to ergo enos pneymatikoy anqrwpoy kai apo to poso kapoios antilambanetai thn apwleia. To gegonos oti o Prwqypoyrgos, amesws molis egine gnwstos o qanatos toy Manolh Anagnwstakh, proebh se dhlwsh gia th megalh ayth apwleia pisteyw pws apodeiknyei oti o nyn Prwqypoyrgos kai Ypoyrgos Politismoy kai antilambanetai kai sebetai thn proswpikothta toy apoqanontos.

POYLIDOY: Syggnwmh, poios einai o logos ths fysikhs paroysias twn Ypoyrgwn, loipon, stis loipes khdeies, an noera ekfrazoyn mono thn timh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An qelete na to syzhthsoyme koinwniologika, politismika, istorika h paroysia einai ena kommati ths timhs. Den einai omws olh h timh.

POYLIDOY: Kata thn ektimhsh sas, loipon, den yparxei problhma apo to gegonos oti dyo yfypoyrgoi Politismoy den parabreqhkan, xqes, sthn khdeia toy Anagnwstakh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

POYLIDOY: Den yparxei problhma. Ayto moy apantate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas exw apanthsei. Sas eipa oti h timh se ena proswpo poy feygei den apoteietai mono me th fysikh paroysia. Ayto, epanalambanw, istorika, koinwniologika, politismika einai kati poy to gnwrizoyn oles oi koinwnies apo toys klasikoys xronoys, gia na mhn pw apo toys proistorikoys.

KAKALHS: Me tis xqesines tropologies toy k. Alogoskoyfh sth Boylh mporeite na mas dieykrinisete mexri pote dieykolynontai oi Trapezes na plhrwsoyn tis ypoxrewseis sto Epikoyriko mexri to 2035, 2045 h mexri ton aiwna ton apanta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn.

BLAXOS: Moy lene oloi oti einai para poly epixeirhmaties@.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poioi einai aytoi oi ``oloi'' poy sas to lene;

BLAXOS: Gnwstoi kai filoi. Thn Pempth teleiwnei h apergia twn Trapezwn kai to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn exei balei thn Paraskeyh, dhladh mesa se 24 wres, na apodwsoyn to FPA. Olos aytos o kosmos mporei na trexei thn Paraskeyh to prwi na parei ta xrhmata apo thn Trapeza gia na paei na kataqesei to FPA, se mia hmera mesa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai ti qelete na rwthsete.

BLAXOS: An h kybernhsh skeptetai na dwsei mia peraiterw paratash@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eilikrinws den to gnwrizw. Parakalw apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn kai Oikonomias gia na dwsei apanthsh sto erwthma sas. Einai ena shmantiko qema, gia to opoio omws den mporw na sas apanthsw.

GKOYTZANHS: O k. Mhtsotakhs, xqes, ekane mia parembash me thn opoia sthrije thn kybernhsh. Malista to apogeyma bghke kai sto kentriko Deltio toy Alpha kai eipe oti h kybernhsh akoloyqei th dikh toy politikh. Anhsyxei ayth thn parembash thn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa, xqes.

SIDERHS: Mhpws ferei kakotyxia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa, xqes, se antistoixh erwthsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Yphrje h xqesinh synenteyjh toy gi` ayto thn epanefera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti den sxoliazw tis dhlwseis toy prwhn Prwqypoyrgoy kai Epitimoy Proedroy ths Neas Dhmokratias.

SARANTAKOS: Xqes, yphrje mia synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me thn k. Mpakogiannh, h opoia meta to peras ths synanthshs ths mas eipe oti to basiko qema htan to ghpedo toy Panaqhnaikoy kai h anamorfwsh toy Elaiwna. Hqela na rwthsw poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs panw se ayto kai ti eipe o Prwqypoyrgos poy eide oloklhrwmenh thn protash ths Dhmarxoy kai an exei teqei kapoio xronodiagramma epiteloys gia na anamorfwqei o Elaiwnas kai o Panaqhnaikos na apokthsei diko toy ghpedo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa kai xqes oti milame gia mia oloklhrwmenh protash poy den anaferetai mono sto ghpedo toy Panaqhnaikoy, alla synolika sthn ajiopoihsh mias perioxhs, h opoia einai para poly ypobaqmismenh. Ajiopoihsh me tetoio tropo poy qa sebetai kai qa bohqa to periballon kai qa anaptyxqei prasino ekei poy den yparxei. H protash ths Dhmarxoy Aqhnaiwn perilambanei akomh thn parallhlh ajiopoihsh twn dyo aytwn xwrwn poy exei sxesh me to ghpedo ths Lewforoy Alejandras kai toys xwroys poy briskontai ston Elaiwna. Toys exete episkefqei kai gnwrizete thn katastash sthn opoia briskontai. H protash einai endiaferoysa. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Gia to dekalepto poy meinate eseis me ton k. Karamanlh kai thn k. Mpakogiannh exete na mas peite kati perissotero;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Htan mia prokatarktikh syzhthsh epi toy qematos.

BLAXOS: Gia poio qema, prokatarktikh gia to ghpedo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

BLAXOS: Syzhthsate kai tipote allo; Gia ton anasxhmatismo; Gia topoqethsh ths k. Mpakogiannh sthn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

BLAXOS: Orkizeste!

PALAIOLOGOS: Ektos apo thn ajiopoihsh toy Elaiwna, yparxei kapoio deadline gia thn ajiopoihsh ths k. Mpakogiannh sthn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite ``deadline'', den katalabainw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ennow katalhktikh hmeromhnia, dhladh ston epomeno@

ROYSOPOYLOS: An me rwtate pote qa ginei anasxhmatismos, exw apanthsei polles fores sto erwthma. Isxyei h apanthsh moy.

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi, egw rwtaw ston epomeno anasxhmatismo opote ginei, ocepote kai an ginei h k. Mpakogiannh qa einai sthn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw!

GALIATSATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mas eipate prin se erwthsh gia to an exei anoijei to Asfalistiko h oxi oti den exei allajei tipote kai malista anaferqhkate sth frash poy eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs sth Boylh oti qa apaithqei perissoteros xronos apo mia tetraetia. O k. Alogoskoyfhs se ayth th frash eixe prosqesei kai th lejh piqanon, afhnontas anoixto oti mporei na einai kai ligotero apo mia tetraetia. En pash periptwsei o k. Alogoskoyfhs den eixe kalesei pote se Diakommatikh Epitroph gia to Asfalistiko kai den eixe pei pote oti qa prepei ayth h syzhthsh na ginei kai mesa sth Boylh. Exei allajei kati;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas diabazw ti eipe o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Alogoskoyfhs xqes sth Boylh: ``O nomos poy ypotiqetai qa elyne ta problhmata toy Asfalistikoy toy PASOK, toy Asfalistikoy gia 30 xronia aplws metefere ta barh toy Asfalistikoy sto forologoymeno kai tis epomenes genies. H kybernhsh anagnwrizontas aytes tis adynamies exei hdh zhthsei apo toys koinwnikoys foreis kai ta politika kommata na ginei enas ektetamenos dhmosios dialogos gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn toy Asfalistikoy. Problhmata poy me thn parodo toy xronoy ginontai oloena kai pio ekrhktika. O dialogos aytos den mporei para na einai enas dialogos makras pnohs, o opoios qa odhghsei sth synolikh anaqewrhsh toy 3029. Na qymisw oti stis 26 Aprilioy, prin apo dyo mhnes, zhthsame apo thn Oikonomikh kai Koinwnikh Epitroph (OKE) na jekinhsei th diejagwgh dialogoy metajy twn koinwnikwn etairwn symfwna me to arqro 82 paragrafos 3 toy Syntagmatos. H kybernhsh qewrei oti apaiteitai eqnikos dialogos gia to Asfalistiko, o opoios qa prepei na einai makras pnohs, wste na aposafhnistoyn oles oi parametroi toy zhthmatos, na epikairopoihqoyn oi meletes poy exoyn ginei kai na dhmioyrghqei mia koinh bash panw sthn opoia qa anazhthqoyn oi aparaithtes synaineseis metajy twn koinwnikwn etairwn kai twn politikwn kommatwn. O dialogos qa apaithsei xrono poy jeperna thn kybernhtikh qhteia''. Sth synexeia, o k. Alogoskoyfhs paraqetei mia seira apo stoixeia.

GALIATSATOS: Me sygxwreite, k. Ekproswpe, o k. Alogoskoyfhs exei pei ``piqanon'' ton akoysa me ta aytia moy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den teleiwsa, parakalw perimenete na oloklhrwsw thn apanthsh moy. Sas diabasa ena apospasma apo thn omilia toy k. Alogoskoyfh. Ayto poy sas exw pei polles fores einai oti qa prepei mia sobarh kai ypeyqynh kybernhsh na pronoei na syzhtei gia to mellon. Ean to Asfalistiko qa exei problhmata se 10, 15 h 20 xronia ayto den shmainei oti kaneis den prepei na syzhthsei apo twra. Ena apo ta megala problhmata poy antimetwpizei o topos aytos -synhqws me kybernhseis toy PASOK synebh ayto sto parelqon- einai oti den sxediazei, den pronoei. Emeis, loipon, akoloyqoyme teleiws diaforetikh stash, teleiws diaforetikh politikh. Einai mia politikh me strathgikh stoxeysh: Pronooyme, syzhtoyme. Oles oi xwres ths E.E. syzhtoyn gi` ayta ta qemata. Emeis den mporoyme na meinoyme apejw, giati antimetwpizoyme to problhma. Qa einai ena problhma @an oxi gia mas- gia ta paidia mas. Etsi, loipon, jekinhse ayth h ypoqesh toy dialogoy kai etsi qa synexistei.

BLAXOS: Sto paketo Giannitsh den eixate paei sth syzhthsh. H Nea Dhmokratia apeixe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti oi synqhkes katw apo tis opoies egine aytos o dialogos htan diaforetikes.

BLAXOS: Den exei kamia shmasia, dialogo zhthse.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai sas qymizw epishs oti h logikh me thn opoia proxwrhse tote to Asfalistiko kai bebaiws h opisqoxwrhsh poy shmane to PASOK @kai proswpika o k. Shmiths- htan toso kraygalea poy apedeije thn proxeirothta toy egxeirhmatos. To akribws antiqeto kanoyme emeis. Anti na exoyme labei mia apofash kai na poyme elate na syzhthsoyme epi ths apofasews, anoigoyme to dialogo me oloys toys koinwnikoys etairoys. Leme stoys koinwnikoys etairoys elate na syzhthsoyme. Leme sta kommata na syzhthsoyme. Den leme, loipon, oti se treis mhnes, se eji mhnes qa feroyme ena nomosxedio. Anoigoyme ayto to dialogo, giati einai aparaithto na anoijei o dialogos, na akoystoyn oles oi apoceis. H GSEE sthn prosfath ekqesh ths epishmainei, epishs, thn anagkh na jekinhsei dialogos gia to mellon toy Asfalistikoy. Ayto ginetai, tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Anoigete dhladh dialogo me leyko xarti, opoy ekei qa katateqoyn oi protaseis@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa dialogo katagrafhs twn problhmatwn @gnwrizoyme oloi mas poia einai- apo oles tis pleyres, antilhchs kai synantilhchs gyrw apo ayta ta problhmata. Anoigoyme ena dialogo ston opoio qa katateqoyn sto trapezi idees, protaseis, praktikes apo alles xwres. Se polles eyrwpaikes xwres einai se ejelijh enas tetoios dialogos. Proxwroyme kai se ayth thn ypoqesh, opws akribws sas prodiegraca.

TSIODRAS: Qa hqela na epanalabw th dhlwsh poy kanate proeklogika kai sth synexeia ws kybernhsh, oti den tiqetai zhthma ayjhshs oriwn hlikias kai ayjhshs eisforwn sto Asfalistiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto isxyei. Isxyei o,ti eixame pei proeklogika.

TSIODRAS: Ayto isxyei gia to mellon h ennoeite gia twra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An ennoeite gia to 2025, den mporw na sas pw ayth th stigmh.

TSIODRAS: Oxi, ennow gia to dialogo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa. Ayto poy exoyme pei proeklogika isxyei. Den exw na pw tipota perissotero.

TSIODRAS: Qelw na rwthsw an einai sto plaisio toy dialogoy poy anoigei kai ta oria hlikias kai h ayjhsh twn eisforwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O dialogos einai kai anoixtos kai eleyqeros. Jekinhse apo toys koinwnikoys etairoys. Oi koinwnikoi etairoi kataqetoyn ton problhmatismo. H kybernhsh ejetazei ton problhmatismo ayto kai zhtei apo ta kommata na syneisferoyn sto dialogo. To prodiegraca, pisteyw, me apolyth safhneia.

GKOYTZANHS: Anoigete to dialogo gia to Asfalistiko kai kata thn apoch moy kala kanete. Giati, omws, prodiagrafete oti den qa oloklhrwqei aytos o dialogos opwsdhpote mesa s` ayth thn trietia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati akribws den qeloyme na antimetwpisoyme to qema espeysmena. Mporei na oloklhrwqei kai ligo prin thn ekpnoh ths tetraetias. Den to apokleiei kanenas. Mporei na breqoyn sygklinoyses apoceis se xilia dyo problhmata stoys epomenoys 12, 14 h 18 mhnes. Den mporw na to gnwrizw. Ekeino omws to opoio leme emeis, einai oti qa prepei na jekinhsei ayth h syzhthsh, na akoystoyn oles oi apoceis apo oloys toys koinwnikoys etairoys, apo ola ta kommata, na qesoyme to problhma sto trapezi. Na to antimetwpisoyme epiteloys, blepontas to katamata kai oxi me mikrokommatikes skopimothtes poy qa odhghsoyn ton alfa h ton bhta se ypanaxwrhsh. Ta eidame ayta. Eginan prin apo dyo @ tria xronia. Den perase polys kairos poy anakoinwqhke apo thn kybernhsh Shmith mia seira apofasewn kai en synexeia hrqe to komma kai ta phre ola pisw kai efere ton N.3029 toy k. Reppa. Den perase polys kairos, ta qymaste oloi. Emeis, loipon, proxwroyme me mia allh logikh opws sas thn periegraca. Me thn politikh strathgikhs stoxeyshs. Einai teleiws diaforetikh h proseggish toy PASOK, teleiws diaforetikh h dikh mas. Kaloyme, loipon, oloys na syneisferoyn tis skeceis kai tis apoceis toys se ayth thn politikh.

GKOYTZANHS: H erwthsh einai, apla, giati prokatalambanete to dialogo, estw ws pros th diarkeia toy h ws pros thn ektash@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati to amesws epomeno erwthma einai: ``An teleiwsei se 12 mhnes, qa to ferete sth Boylh ton epomeno xrono;'' k.o.k. Sas lew, loipon, oti h proqesh den einai na proxwrhsoyme se ena diasthma 6,10,22 mhnwn. H proqesh mas einai na anoijei aytos o dialogos, na syzhthqoyn xwris piesh xronoy h alloy eidoys pieseis, ola ta zhthmata kai na yparjei h kata to dynaton megalyterh sygklish.

KAKALHS: Oi logoi poy anoigei to Asfalistiko sthn Eyrwph einai, eite gia na ayjhqoyn ta oria hlikias, eite na meiwqoyn oi syntajeis, eite na idiwtikopoihqei h koinwnikh asfalish. H kybernhsh, dhladh, symmorfoymenh me tis kateyqynseis ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, den qa kinhqei s@ ayth thn kateyqynsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O logos gia ton opoio anoigei opoiodhpote zhthma einai otan antilambanetai kapoios pws yparxei problhma h pws mporei na yparjei problhma. Alliws, an den yparxei problhma, den yparxei kai logos na anoijei to opoiodhpote zhthma. Sto sygkekrimeno qema, blepoyme safws oti mporei na yparjei problhma. Mporw na sas dwsw stoixeia gi` ayto, an qelete. Apo to Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs 2004 @ 2007, poy egkriqhke apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph kai to opoio afora tis makroproqesmes taseis twn asfalistikwn dapanwn kai esodwn, proerxetai o pinakas poy kateqese xqes o k. Alogoskoyfhs sth Boylh. Symfwna, loipon, me ayton ton pinaka poy basizetai sthn pio prosfath analysh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, oi dapanes gia tis syntajeis ghratos qa ayjhqoyn apo 12,4% toy AEP to 2005, se 17,3% toy AEP to 2030 kai sto 22,6% toy AEP to 2050. Antistoixws, ta esoda apo syntajiodotikes eisfores me tis shmerines taseis opws katagrafontai, ayjanontai elaxista: to 8,3% toy AEP to 2005 ginetai 9% toy AEP to 2030 kai 8,8% toy AEP to 2050. Antilambaneste, loipon, oti kapoios poy skeptetai strathgika gia to mellon kai tis epomenes genees prepei na frontizei, otan ta stoixeia ayta odhgoyn me maqhmatikh akribeia se anhsyxia gia to Asfalistiko meta apo 15, 20 h 30 xronia. Sas qymizw oti h teleytaia metarryqmish gia to Asfalistiko, egine thn periodo 1990 @ 1993. Gia skefqeite: Exoyn perasei sxedon ta misa xronia apo ayta poy eixan pei oi analogistes oti mporei na antejei ayth h asfalistikh metarryqmish. To eipan kai oi Bretanoi analogistes poy eixe ferei o k. Giannitshs, otan htan armodios ypoyrgos, prin ginei anasxhmatismos kai parei th qesh toy o k. Reppas. Aytos einai o logos. Blepete, loipon, oti kapoia stigmh qa prokycei kapoio problhma. Alimono, loipon, an den to skefteis kai den sxediaseis thn antimetwpish toy.

KAKALHS: Dhladh, omologeite emmesa, anagnwrizontas to problhma, oti kineiste sthn kateyqynsh ths ayjhshs twn oriwn hlikias kai ths meiwshs twn syntajewn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eipa kati tetoio. Me rwtate ``giati anoigete to qema'' kai sas ejhgw to logo gia ton opoio anoigei ena qema. Opws eseis kanete mia erwthsh, giati profanws exete skopo na gracete ena reportaz, mia kybernhsh anoigei ena qema giati jerei oti kapoia stigmh qa prokycei ws problhma. @Ara, loipon, h to sprwxnoyme katw apo to xali, kati to opoio den kanoyme @to kathgoroysame ayto sthn prohgoymenh kybernhsh- h to anoigoyme pros syzhthsh, prokeimenoy na poreyqoyme me ton kalytero dynato tropo.

SPYRAKH: Me sygxwreite poy qa epimeinw, alla ayta ta stoixeia poy paroysiasate kai paroysiase kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs, ti proeleysh exoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti proerxontai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph.

TSIODRAS: Exoyn parathrhqei kroysmata kerdoskopias stis times twn kaysimwn, me aformh thn anodo. Rwtw an skeftetai h kybernhsh na labei kapoia metra.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa kai xqes se ayto to erwthma. Anefera orismena pragmata gia ta kaysima -o k. Sioyfas hdh exei kanei anakoinwseis- kai se sxesh me tis prospaqeies gia th meiwsh toy eidikoy foroy, kati to opoio, opws eipa, einai dyskolo kai xreiazetai h egkrish ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs. Analogika eimaste apo tis xwres me to xamhlotero pososto sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh s` ayto to xwro, alla kyriws kai sthn epanatopoqethsh toy qematos toy foroy se sxesh me to petrelaio kinhshs kai to petrelaio qermanshs. Giati, opws jerete, ena megalo meros toy problhmatos jekina apo ekei. Oi prospaqeies poy ginontai apo tis armodies epitropes elegxoy se mia seira proiontwn einai poly megales. Oxi mono sto petrelaio, oxi mono sthn kinhsh. Gia paradeigma, eidate to qema ths zaxarhs. Exete shmeiwsei oloi sas kai epitrecte moy na kanw mia mikrh anafora s` ayto @to eixa pei kai prin apo liges hmeres- oti to teleytaio dimhno - trimhno exoyme diarkws qemata ta opoia erxontai sth dhmosiothta apo energeies poy kanei to Ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs yper ths prostasias toy katanalwth, xtypwntas thn kerdoskopia kai osoys kerdoskopoyn.

BLAXOS: O k. Karamanlhs, shmera poy milame, exei perissotero filika aisqhmata pros ton k. Mhtsotakh h pros ton k. Ebert;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den apantw. Me sygxwreite, alla moy kanate mia erwthsh gia ta ``filika aisqhmata'' toy Prwqypoyrgoy. O Prwqypoyrgos trefei pros oloys filika aisqhmata. Akomh kai pros toys antipaloys toy. Den diakatexetai apo aisqhmata misoys h arnhtika aisqhmata kai skeceis.

BLAXOS: Symperilambanete stoys antipaloys kai ton k. Ebert;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, milw gia toys politikoys toy antipaloys. Den exei kamia antipalothta me ton k. Ebert.

BLAXOS: Ayth th stigmh, to megalytero problhma poy exei dhmioyrghsei h kybernhsh einai h kinhsh Ebert gia thn tropologia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati; Einai problhma to na pei kapoios thn apoch toy; O k. Ebert eipe thn apoch toy.

Sas eyxaristw.

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