Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-04-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 21 Aprilioy 2005

Xairete.

Ayrio, stis 11:00, o Prwqypoyrgos qa exei synergasia sto Megaro Majimoy me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Petro Molybiath.

Stis 17:30 qa anaxwrhsei gia to Hrakleio Krhths, opoy qa egkainiasei ta ekei grafeia ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

Qa hqela na sas epishmanw thn prosoxh se mia anakoinwsh poy ekdoqhke apo to Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs kai Koinwnikhs Prostasias kai anaferetai se dyo nea programmata epixorhghshs, synolika 11.000 newn qesewn ergasias, gia to 2005, apo ton OAED. Einai 11.000 nees qeseis ergasias, enas poly shmantikos ariqmos, se dyo poly shmantika programmata toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs kai Koinwnikhs Prostasias, ta opoia qa enisxysoyn tis asqenesteres koinwnikes omades. Kai me aformh ayto, epitrecte moy na pw kai kati akoma: Proxqes, o Prwqypoyrgos -giati exei ginei pollh syzhthsh s` ayth thn aiqoysa kai gi` ayto to qema poy qa pw- anefere sthn omilia toy 30 protaseis gia ependytika programmata, ws apotelesma toy anaptyjiakoy nomoy. Mesa se mia mera oysiastika -xqes kai shmera to prwi- eixame akoma 7 protaseis poy kateteqhsan gia ependytika programmata, me aformh to neo anaptyjiako nomo. Einai protaseis poy anaferontai kyriws se mikromesaies epixeirhseis. Enisxyoyme oso ginetai perissotero, me pio dynamiko tropo, ton antagwnismo, th mikromesaia epixeirhsh, giati ayto enisxyei kai perissoteres qeseis ergasias, perissoteres qeseis apasxolhshs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SARANTAKOS: Para to gegonos oti xqes eseis den anagnwrisate hn yparjh politikwn eyqynwn gia to qema toy basikoy metoxoy kai thn ejelijh poy phre, shmera dyo Ypoyrgoi den symmeristhkan th dikh sas ektimhsh. O k. Nikhtas Kaklamanhs kai o k. Xrhstos Fwlias se synenteyjeis toys sto radiofwno toy Alpha epishmanan politikes eyqynes. Opws qymamai proxeira na sas pw, o k. Kaklamanhs eipe oti den mporoysame na pame se ayton ton polemo, opws eipe xarakthristika, se ayth th maxh an den eixame diasfalisei synergasia apo alles xwres se eyrwpaiko epipedo. Poio einai to sxolio sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei h xqesinh apanthsh moy.

SARANTAKOS: Oti den yparxoyn politikes eyqynes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei o,ti eipa xqes.

GKOYTZANHS: Moy exei meinei mia aporia apo th xqesinh epistolh kai se sxesh me thn teleytaia paragrafo ths epistolhs. An ypoqesoyme oti enas epixeirhmatias poy exei apokleistei apo th diekdikhsh enos ergoy, me bash to nomo toy PASOK prosfygei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, yparxei kindynos na dikaiwqei, dhladh na toy epistrafoyn xrhmata, na akyrwqei to ergo, na exoyme problhma me ta kondylia; Kai den milw gia anadromikh isxy, milw gia twra.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa miloysa gia kindyno, qa elega ayto poy eipa kai xqes: Prospaqoyme na mh dhmioyrghqoyn aytes oi synqhkes kai na mh xaqei oyte ena eyrw. Opws sas eipa kai xqes, to na mh xaqei oyte ena eyrw, den phgainei sto ``apo edw kai pera''. Giati to ``apo edw kai pera'' einai kati to opoio einai poly eykola problecimo apo th stigmh poy h kybernhsh phre th qesh poy sas gnwstopoihse apo hmerwn o Prwqypoyrgos, gia thn prospaqeia ejeyreshs koinoy topoy, qesh thn opoia epanelaba xqes stis dhlwseis moy. To na mh xaqoyn xrhmata exei na kanei me diadikasies poy einai en ejelijei apo ton en isxy nomo, ton N. 3021. Ayth einai h prospaqeia mas. Oson afora sto texniko h nomiko erwthma, den mporw na to apanthsw. Prospaqoyme, omws, na apotrecoyme kaqe tetoia piqanothta.

GKOYTZANHS: Me kapoio sygkekrimeno tropo isws;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ginetai mia prospaqeia. Qa moy epitrecete na mhn pw perissotera.

KAKALHS: Dhladh sto dilhmma anamesa sthn apwleia kondyliwn kai sthn yperaspish toy Syntagmatos kai toy eqnikoy symferontos opws elege paliotera h kybernhsh, h kybernhsh epilegei na yperaspistei kapoia liga eyrw, kapoies ekatontades xiliades eyrw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy dinete thn eykairia na epanalabw oti einai dyo dromoi panw stoys opoioys prepei na badisoyme. Kai oi dyo dromoi exoyn akribws ton idio titlo: Eqniko symferon. To eqniko symferon gia thn yperaspish toy Syntagmatos poy einai h diarkhs ypoxrewsh mas kai to eqniko symferon na mh xaqoyn xrhmata, giati eimaste mia xwra poy exei poly megala oikonomika problhmata kai den exei thn eykairia na xasei oyte ena eyrw apo kondylia poy sthrizoyn koinotika erga. Ara loipon, to eqniko symferon badizei se dyo dromoys. H prospaqeia mas einai aytoi oi dyo dromoi, opws eipa kai xqes, na taytistoyn kapoia stigmh. Den afistameqa oyte toy enos, oyte toy alloy. Ara den yfistatai dilhmma, opws to qesate.

KAKALHS: Ayto poy fainetai mexri stigmhs, an pistecoyme titloys filokybernhtikwn efhmeridwn einai oti stoys ``ntabatzhdes'' twn Bryjellwn plhrwnoyme enan foro ypoteleias kai oyte gata, oyte zhmia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na pistecete opoioys titloys qelete. Sas lew poia einai h epishmh kybernhtikh qesh kai poia einai h pragmatikothta. H pragmatikothta apotypwnetai- peran twn oswn sas eipa- kai sthn allhlografia poy yparxei me thn Komision kai bebaiws sto teleytaio enhmerwtiko shmeiwma poy esteile o k. Meadows, epishmainontas thn piqanothta na mhn doqoyn epixorhghseis se koinotika erga efoson yparjoyn problhmata me ton epomeno nomo, ton N. 3310, h me ton prohgoymeno nomo o opoios einai se isxy.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, xqes klhqhkate na sxoliasete tis dhlwseis Ozkiok oi opoies pragmati einai poly proklhtikes kai gia thn Ellada, to Aigaio kai gia thn Kypro kai malista kanei safh dhlwsh oti den prokeitai h Toyrkia na anagnwrisei thn Kypriakh Dhmokratia. Qa hqela shmera to sxoliasmo sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, oi topoqethseis epi qematwn ejwterikhs politikhs aforoyn tis politikes hgesies kai ekfrazontai apo tis politikes hgesies. Oi sygkekrimenes topoqethseis eginan apo ton arxhgo twn Enoplwn Dynamewn ths Toyrkias kai den epiqymw na tis sxoliasw.

TSIODRAS: Pws blepei h kybernhsh thn protash thn opoia diatypwnetai, kai diatypwnetai pio sygkekrimena shmera sto kyrio arqro ths ``Eleyqerotypias'' sxetika me th diakommatikh synennohsh prokeimenoy na katateqei kapoios kainoyrios nomos gia to zhthma ths diaplokhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme kalesei polles fores to PASOK na kataqesei sygkekrimenes protaseis. Oi protaseis tis opoies to PASOK eixe kataqesei legontas oti aforoyn to basiko metoxo htan genikes kai aoristes, aforwses polla alla pragmata ektos toy basikoy metoxoy. An loipon, yparxei h opoiadhpote protash apo thn pleyra toy PASOK eite einai se epipedo aplhs protashs, eite se epipedo protashs nomoy, den exei para na tis kataqesei, wste na doyme an pragmatika ayta ta opoia leei sta logia, ta ennoei kai sthn prajh. Qelw na epishmanw gia mia akomh fora -to epishmana sth Boylh kai egw kai oi synadelfoi moy k. Paylopoylos kai k. Papalhgoyras- oti toso to KKE oso kai o Synaspismos ths Rizospastikhs Aristeras, eixan kanei sygkekrimenes, safeis protaseis entos ths syzhthsews ths Epitrophs kai ths Olomeleias ths Boylhs, polles ek twn opoiwn eginan apodektes apo thn kybernhsh.

TSIODRAS: Den sas rwtw gia to an exei to PASOK protash. Rwtw an h kybernhsh protiqetai na analabei kapoia prwtoboylia prokeimenoy na kalesei kai to PASOK kai to ypoloipa kommata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti exw apanthsei me emmeso plhn safh tropo.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Para tis kales proqeseis kai ymwn kai ths kybernhshs diadikastika parathroyme oti h poreia toy nomoy gia to basiko metoxo den htan epityxhs toylaxiston mexri twra. Epeidh eiste enas ek twn triwn syntaktwn toy nomosxedioy, aisqaneste thn anagkh na paraithqeite toylaxiston gia logoys eyqijias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den paraiteitai kanenas apo enan agwna, o opoios einai agwnas gia th diafaneia. Kai den prepei na paraiteitai kanenas, giati to mhnyma, poy qa edine tote sthn ellhnikh koinwnia kai idiaitera stoys neoys anqrwpoys poy exoyn pistecei ston agwna ayto toy Kwsta Karamanlh kai ths kybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, qa htan arnhtiko. Qelw na epishmanw -kai parakalw shmeiwste kai ayto ws symplhrwmatiko stoixeio ths apanthshs moy- oti o agwnas gia th diafaneia ginetai me polloys tropoys. Me to nomimo tropo poy emeis epidiwjame, symfwna me to Syntagma mas, ton ftasame se ena shmeio. Apo to shmeio ayto kai pera, ean yparjoyn h opoiadhpote anagkh na breqei ayto poy apokalesame koino topo, poy shmainei, an xreiastei na ginei h opoiadhpote mikrh allagh toy nomoy, h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias qa proxwrhsei etsi wste na mhn apostei kata keraia apo thn ypoqesh ths katapolemhshs ths diaplokhs. Pisteyoyme oti symplhrwmatika -ayto to eipa kai xqes- leitoyrgoyn kai alloi nomoi poy efere ayth h kybernhsh: H enisxysh twn Anejarthtwn Arxwn kai o nomos poy efere to Ypoyrgeio PEXWDE, o k. Soyflias gia thn katarghsh toy maqhmatikoy typoy. O agwnas gia th diafaneia einai diarkhs. Einai poly shmantiko na yparxei ayto to politiko mhnyma ston Ellhna polith. Na yioqethsei ayto to politiko mhnyma. Kai yioqethqhke, edw kai para poly kairo, prin h Nea Dhmokratia ginei kybernhsh. Einai poly shmantiko mia kybernhsh na mhn paraithqei me thn prwth dyskolia. Epitrecte moy, epishs, na epishmanw oti milame oysiastika gia mia antiparaqesh, diaboyleysh, diapragmateysh poy exei jekinhsei me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh me aformh ton prohgoymeno nomo, genikotera th dikh mas nomoqesia kai to Syntagma mas. Kai na mhn epanalabw kai pali ta peri toy Syntagmatos mas, giati ta ejantlhsa kai xqes kai shmera.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Mia dieykrinish sta osa eipate: Kaneis den antilegei kai gia th filosofia kai gia to sqenos ths kybernhshs na yperaspistei ola ayta poy anaferate. To eidopoio stoixeio einai mhpws tyxon mia allh kybernhtikh omada, endexomenws, na eixe ena kalytero apotelesma apo to yparxon; Ekei einai to problhma. Dhladh, mhpws h sygkekrimenh triandria dhmioyrghse ena nomiko kataskeyasma, to opoio endexomenws na einai xeirotero apo kapoio allo poy qa to ekane mia allh pio ejeidikeymenh omada;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi sygkekrimenoi treis ypoyrgoi -giati egw den qa milhsw gia triandria- eferan ena nomosxedio to opoio bebaiws to exete, to gnwrizate oloi apo thn arxh kai egine nomos toy kratoys. Ekeino poy qelw na epishmanw kai pali -kai edw yparxei mia lepth diafora- einai: O nomos aytos einai poly pio aysthros apo ton prohgoymeno. Wstoso, kai ston prohgoymeno nomo ston opoio yphrxan polla paraqyra, opws eixame kataggeilei, h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh eixe antirrhseis. Eixe antirrhseis, giati yparxei to meizon zhthma oti diafwnei h Komision me to arqro14.9 toy Syntagmatos mas. Ara, loipon, otan exoyme mia basikh syzhthsh gia to 14.9, gia to Syntagma mas, den einai o nomos aytos poy dhmioyrgei to problhma. Einai kyriws h diaforetikh antilhch poy exoyme emeis sthn Ellada, me bash to Syntagma poy chfisame, kai h Komision stis Bryjelles, gi` ayto to sygkekrimeno arqro kai gia ton tropo me ton opoio mporei kaneis na katapolemhsei th diafqora kai th diaplokh ston topo mas. Den einai, loipon, qema toy 3310. Einai qema synolika ths nomoqesias kai panw apo ola einai qema toy Syntagmatos mas. Kai ayto to Syntagma qa to yperaspistoyme.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Me thn ennoia ayth ti qa yperaspisteite to Syntagma, otan h Boylh proxqes epikyrwse to Eyrwpaiko Syntagma, to opoio einai parapanw apo to diko mas Syntagma. Ti qa yperaspisteite, dhladh; Den katalaba.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To parapanw h to parakatw einai mia dikh sas krish. Den qa mpw se ayth th diadikasia. Yparxoyn alloi armodioteroi na milhsoyn gi` ayto. Sto erwthma sas, omws, exw hdh apanthsei kai xqes.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Sas akoysa kai xqes gi` ayto kai epanerxomai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa prosqesw tipote perissotero.

PEPONHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, anaferate kai shmera dyo fores thn ennoia toy koinoy topoy. Mporeite na mas peite an h kybernhsh exei sto peripoy prosdiorisei to periexomeno ths ennoias ayths sto zhtoymeno poy einai h diaplokh kai an nai poio einai ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An moy zhtate na sas pw an qa ginoyn allages kai ti eidoys allages qa einai aytes, sas lew oti an den exoyme thn apanthsh ths Komision epi toy qematos, antilambaneste oti qa htan poly proxeiro, adokimo, alla kai laqos diapragmateytika apenanti sthn Komision na pw otidhpote twra. Giati h Komision mporei na exei tropopoihsei kapoia apo ta shmeia twn apocewn ths me bash thn apanthsh poy steilame pro oligwn hmerwn.

KORAH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh exei kathgorhsei thn kybernhsh oti exei aqethsei tis yposxeseis ths, ektos apo toys symbasioyxoys kai stoys agrotes. Kai exei kataggeilei oti h ryqmish gia ta panwtokia telika kalyptei ena poly mikro pososto se sxesh me ton ariqmo poy antimetwpizoyn to problhma. Poia einai h apanthsh ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy dinete thn eykairia na pw oti h antipoliteysh ek toy proxeiroy, polles fores, kanei anakoinwseis. Ayto to exoyme diapistwsei syxna-pykna, to diapistwnoyn kai osoi mporei na melethsoyn se baqos ta qemata. Parathreitai mia genikoterh diastreblwsh. Anaferw endeiktika ena paradeigma poy anaferetai sta panwtokia kai katagrafhke stis efhmerides. Diabasa xqes, loipon, oti symfwna me erwthsh poy kateqese stelexos toy PASOK sth Boylh, epi 38.000 daneiwn me panwtokia ypoblhqhkan 2.500 aithseis gia ryqmish. Apo aytes, eginan dektes peripoy 1.650. Htoi pososto 4,3%, shmeiwnei h efhmerida. Prosejte th diastreblwsh: Epi 38.000 daneiwn me panwtokia, yphrjan 2.500 aithseis. Apo aytes tis 2.500 aithseis eginan dektes pros ryqmish oi 1.650 periptwseis. Kai shmeiwnei: pososto 4,3%. Den einai 4,3%. To pososto einai panw apo 60%. To pososto 4,3% mporei na einai endexomenws epi twn 38.000 daneiwn. Alla lyneis to problhma epi twn aithsewn poy exeis. Oxi genikws. An, dhladh, sthn paraliakh Aqhnwn-Soynioy yparxoyn 50 ayqaireta, den les oti katedafisan ta 50 ayqaireta kai to pososto epi twn 50 ayqairetwn poy katedafisthkan einai epi toy synolikoy ariqmoy twn katoikiwn poy briskontai nomimws sthn paraliakh. Les oti an einai 50 kai katedafistoyn ta 50 h ta 25 exeis ftasei sto 50% ths prospaqeias soy h sto 100%. Ayto den einai h prwth fora poy symbainei. Einai h pollosth fora poy ginetai mia prospaqeia diastreblwshs twn apotelesmatwn twn dikwn mas politikwn. Ta apotelesmata ayta, omws, ftanoyn stoys polites kai ta gnwrizoyn poly kala. Qelw na sas pw oti yparxoyn sigoyra ryqmiseis poy mporei sthn poreia na apodeixqei oti xreiazontai mia epipleon beltiwsh. Sta panwtokia, en prokeimenw, den exoyme kati to opoio na mas dinei ayth thn eikona. Mporei, loipon, kapoioi poy den empiptoyn stis diatajeis toy sygkekrimenoy nomoqethmatos, ths sygkekrimenhs ryqmishs na exoyn paraponeqei stis Trapezes h alloy. Den shmainei, omws, oti ayth einai h pleiochfia. Giati, apo to paradeigma poy sas diabasa -kai to antlhsa apo xqesinh efhmerida, h opoia steketai kritika pros thn kybernhsh- den prokyptei ayto poy akoygetai ws kathgoria, dhladh, oti ena poly mikro pososto mono exei ikanopoihqei. Prokyptei to akribws antiqeto: Exei ikanopoihqei pososto panw apo 60%.

IWANNOY: qa hqela na rwthsw ean synadoyn me thn entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy gia tapeinothta kai semnothta, fainomena opws ayto toy k. Glyniadakh, poy triplasiazoyn toys misqoys toys, symfwna me kapoies plhrofories kai ean gnwrizete na yparxoyn kai alla tetoia fainomena kai pws ta antimetwpizei h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto poy gnwrizw sigoyra einai oti yparxei mia epistolh toy k. Glyniadakh, sto Meso poy ergazeste, to opoio edwse kai thn ``eidhsh'' gia prwth fora. Symfwna me thn epistolh poy esteile o k. Glyniadakhs, h amoibh toy einai akribws h idia me ayth toy prokatoxoy toy k. Tzella.

SIDERHS: Ta ``bonus'' einai poy diaforopoioyn thn katastash.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epanalambanw oti yparxei epistolh toy k. Glyniadakh sxetika me to qema. Sas anegnwsa ena apospasma ayths ths epistolhs, to opoio yparxei se gnwsh toy thleoptikoy staqmoy poy metadwse thn eidhsh.

IWANNOY: Gnwrizete ean yparxoyn kapoia tetoia kataxrhstika fainomena se epipedo misqwn h kakodiaxeirishs ston eyrytero dhmosio tomea;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prospaqeia mas einai na mhn dhmioyrgoyntai fainomena kakodiaxeirishs toy dhmosioy xrhmatos. Kai ayto, apodeiknyetai kai se polles periptwseis, ana organismoys, alla kai synolika opws apotypwqhke ston Proypologismo toy 2005. Einai mia poly shmantikh kai dyskolh prospaqeia gia ayth th kybernhsh. Qelw na epishmanw asxetws toy qematos poy me rwthsate -kai to epanalambanw, asxetws toy qematos poy me rwthsate- oti einai anagkh epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy na leitoyrghsoyn antagwnistika. Dioti polles epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy den leitoyrgoyn se logikh monopwlioy, den einai se periballon monopwlioy, opws sto parelqon, opoy den yphrxe antagwnismos. Twra exoyme para polles epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy poy leitoyrgoyn se poly isxyro antagwnistiko periballon. Otan, loipon, aytes oi epixeirhseis leitoyrgoyn kai prepei na leitoyrgoyn antagwnistika, antilambaneste oti qa xrhsimopoihsoyn kai kanones poy ypagoreyei h agora, oi opoioi qa einai kanones poy bohqoyn na beltiwqei oikonomika h katastash aytwn twn epixeirhsewn me panw apo ola to sebasmo sto dhmosio xrhma. Epanalambanw gia trith fora oti den to syndew me to qema poy me rwthsate. Aformh briskw na to pw giati einai mia pragmatikothta poy dhmioyrghqhke ta teleytaia xronia sto topo mas, apo tote poy arxisan oi idiwtikopoihseis kai epace na leitoyrgei to monopwlio gia polles epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy.

POYLIDOY: Sxetika me to basiko metoxo: Dyo kybernhseis prospaqwntas na efarmosoyn to arqro 14 paragrafos 9, epelejan problhmatikoys tropoys ligotero h perissotero. Anarwtiemai ean prospaqwntas na breite ton koino topo den epanelqete ki eseis sto nomo Benizeloy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ekane polloys nomoys o k. Benizelos, alla aytos einai nomos toy k. Prwtopapa.

POYLIDOY: Swsta. To erwthma moy einai, ean shmera eixate th dynatothta syntagmatikhs anaqewrhshs, qa anaqewroysate ton N. 14/9;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei gia to ``ean''. To exw sxoliasei kai parastatika, legontas oti fytecan kapote to ``ean'' kai ayto den fytrwse.

POYLIDOY: To fantasthka oti qa legate kati tetoio, alla epeidh kanete kai ejaireseis, opws stis dhmoskophseis, mhpws qa qelate na to sxoliasete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, se ayto den qa kanw ejairesh.

SARANTAKOS: Rwthqhkate prin apo ligo gia to an aisqaneste thn anagkh na paraithqeite meta thn ejelijh ths ypoqeshs gia to basiko metoxo kai apanthsate oti h kybernhsh den paraiteitai apo th maxh kata ths adiafaneias kai ths diaplokhs. Syndeete thn paroysia sas sthn kybernhsh h thn paroysia twn k. Paylopoyloy kai Papalhgoyra, me th synexish h mh synexish toy polemoy kata ths diafaneias; Dhladh, ean fygete eseis apo thn kybernhsh o k. Paylopoylos h o k. Papalhgoyras qa stamathsei h maxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn ermhneies, parermhneies kai diastaltikes ermhneies. Gia na apofeyxqei h opoia parermhneia, kata diastaltikh ermhneia -oyte kan kata diastaltikh ermhneia qa mporoyse na ermhneyqei etsi h dhlwsh moy- kanena stelexos ths kybernhshs den mporei na taytizei ton eayto toy me thn kybernhsh, plhn toy idioy toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

KAKALHS: Epeidh eipate prohgoymenws oti exei shmasia to politiko mhnyma pros thn koinwnia, ean katalaba kala apo prohgoymenh apanthsh sas, oti o agwnas synexizetai me alloys tropoys, dhladh teleiwnoyme me ton basiko metoxo edw kai apo edw kai pera toys alloys nomoys poy exei chfisei h kybernhsh einai aytoi poy qa xrhsimopoihqoyn kata ths diaplokhs. Dhladh teleiwnoyme me ton basiko metoxo kai apla synexizoyme me toys alloys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. To diatypwsa me safhneia kai qa to epanalabw: Dinoyme th maxh se tria shmeia, sta opoia desmeyqhkame na th dwsoyme: 1) H katarghsh toy maqhmatikoy typoy 2) O basikos metoxos 3) H enisxysh twn anejarthtwn arxwn elegxoy. To prwto shmeio gia thn katarghsh toy maqhmatikoy typoy exei perasei me nomo apo to perasmeno kalokairi, exei proxwrhsei, exoyn ginei hdh prokhryjeis, diagwnismoi, anaqeseis ergwn. To deytero shmeio gia to basiko metoxo perase, epishs, me nomo. Antimetwpizei ayth th diadikasia diapragmateyshs me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Se kamia periptwsh den katargeitai, oyte anastelletai, opws akoysa xqes paroti to eipa polles fores kai to dieykrinisa: Den yparxei anastolh nomoy. Yparxei anazhthsh enos koinoy topoy se ena mono shmeio toy nomoy, to opoio anaferetai ekei, opoy h Komision, exei kaqorisei tis dikes ths odhgies. Einai to shmeio poy anaferetai sta dhmosia erga. Giati, kata ta loipa, h Komision den exei kaqorisei odhgies gia polla alla qemata, ta opoia anaferontai sto nomo. Kai bebaiws to trito, thn enisxysh twn anejarthtwn arxwn h opoia ginetai. To ESR enisxyqhke kai me to basiko metoxo, alla kai me nees arxes oi opoies en tw metajy eginan opws eixe desmeyqei h Nea Dhmokratia.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh milhsate gia diaplokh, qelw na sas rwthsw eyqews, yparxoyn shmera epixeirhmaties oi opoies pairnoyn doyleies apo to dhmosio, kanontas xrhsh twn MME poy diaqetoyn, wste na exoyme diaplokh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas pw eyqews oti h Nea Dhmokratia qesmoqetei epi th basei pragmatikwn gegonotwn, ta opoia gnwrizei poly kala h megalh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn pws leitoyrghsan sto parelqon. Qesmoqethse kai to PASOK, sto Syntagma toylaxiston, akribws gi ayto to logo. Dioti to PASOK sto Syntagma milhse gia thn anagkh na mpei ayth h ryqmish, ayth h dieykrinish sto 14.9. Ara, loipon, toylaxiston ta dyo megala kommata symfwnhsan to 2000 oti yparxei ena problhma se ayth thn ypoqesh kai prepei na breqei mia lysh. Brhkan, loipon, th lysh sto Syntagma kai hrqan en synexeia, to ena meta to allo, na dwsoyn me to diko toys nomo -me aysthrotero ayton ths Neas Dhmokratias- lysh se ayto to problhma. Kaqe problhma xreiazetai na lynetai me qesmiko tropo. H amesws epomenh, endexomenws, skech kapoioy qa htan: Ma gia na yparxei diaplokh xreiazontai dyo. Bebaiws etsi einai, xreiazontai toylaxiston dyo. Ayth h kybernhsh exei dwsei kai deigmata kai oysia politikhs apofasistikhs drashs oti den einai diateqeimenh na diaplakei me kanenan. Einai diateqeimenh antiqetws na orisei kanones poy leitoyrgoyn me oso pio antikeimeniko kai dikaio tropo.

SIDERHS: Bebaia, to PASOK nomoqethse ejaitias toy dikoy sas kataggeltikoy laikismoy, epeidh hrqan ekontes kai akontes na nomoqethsoyn gia na mhn toys lete arxiereis ths diaplokhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To erwthma den katalaba.

SIDERHS: Topoqethsh htan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Perimenete sto sxolio moy na aporricw thn topoqethsh. Qa sas pw oti adikeite to PASOK. Nomizw oti otan yposthrize thn apoch ayth sto basiko metoxo, sto Syntagma, eixe ypoch toy kai ta pragmatika gegonota kai hqele na patajei th diaplokh. Twra ean sthn poreia efere ena nomo, o opoios afhne polla paraqyra anoixta, ayto as to apanthsei h prohgoymenh kybernhsh.

GALIATSATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na sas kanw mia erwthsh, oxi toso politikh, oso erwthsh styl: Giati sxoliazete tis topoqethseis toy k. Siderh kai apofeygete na sxoliasete ton k. Mhtsotakh, ton k. Ebert kai alla epifanh stelexh ths paratajhs sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa arxisw na mh sxoliazw kai tis dikes sas erwthseis, an synexisete etsi!

PEPONHS: To eipate kai prohgoymenws, oti sth diaplokh xreiazontai dyo. Mexri twra, phrate metra kata toy enos braxiona ths diaplokhs. Gia ton allo braxiona poy einai oi politikoi, qewreite oti to isxyon plaisio eparkei h sto mellon qa parete kapoia metra kai gi` ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Paylopoylos exei topoqethqei dhmosiws oti qa proxwrhsei se kapoies ryqmiseis oi opoies einai aparaithtes -yparxoyn hdh polles ryqmiseis- kai o,ti akomh xreiastei, qa ginei. To exei hdh pei o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, pro dimhnoy h trimhnoy, sth Boylh.

SIDERHS: Mias kai anaferate ton k. Paylopoylo, ejakoloyqei na pisteyei oti to Syntagma yperisxyei toy Koinotikoy Dikaioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyoyn oles oi dhlwseis poy exoyme kanei mexri twra.

IWANNOY: An mporeite na mas bohqhsete na katalaboyme kati: Lete oti olh ayth h istoria proskroyei sto Syntagma mas, to opoio kai yperaspizomaste. Lete taytoxrona oti den prokeitai na pame se anastolh toy nomoy. To erwthma einai, akoma kai an xreiastei na kanoyme kapoies mikres allages sto nomo, pali den qa yparxei to problhma toy oti qa proskroyei to Syntagma mas @oi basikes arxes dhladh, efoson einai ektelestikos nomos- se ayto poy aporriptei h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph; Dhladh, mporoyme me ena nomo elafrws allagmeno na synexisoyme; Qa mporei dhladh na einai se isxy enas tetoios nomos, afoy oytws h allws proskroyei sto Syntagma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws eipa xqes kai epanelaba prin apo ligo, den yparxoyn antirrhseis ths Komision, ef` olhs ths ylhs. Yparxoyn kapoies sygkekrimenes antirrhseis. Oles aytes odhgoyn sto N.14 par.9, opws poly swsta epishmanate. Emeis, loipon, exoyme ypoxrewsh na yperaspistoyme to Syntagma mas. Prospaqoyme, loipon, mesa apo th diadikasia toy dialogoy na broyme ayton ton koino topo poy qa yioqethsei ayto poy leei to Syntagma mas, kai apo thn allh pleyra, kata to dynaton, ayto poy leei h Komision. Einai mia poly dyskolh diadikasia.

IWANNOY: Ara, den apokleietai to qema ths anastolhs. Giati, an mas poyn oti ``emeis den dexomaste to Syntagma mas, ayto to sygkekrimeno arqro''@

ROYSOPOYLOS: H lejh ``anastolh'' shmainei allo pragma. Xqes eipa kati poly sygkekrimeno: Qa einai to ligotero to na dwsoyme mia mikrh paratash sthn enarjh isxyos toy nomoy. Giati, opws jerete, o nomos den exei arxisei na isxyei akomh.

KORAH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, prin apo ligo mas eipate oti kalws yparxoyn kapoioi ychloi misqoi, idiaitera se Organismoys toy eyryteroy dhmosioy tomea, me thn ennoia oti kinoyntai mesa se synqhkes antagwnismoy. Omws, o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias k. Alogoskoyfhs, se mia synenteyjh poy eixe dwsei sthn ``ELEYQEROTYPIA'' kai dhmosieyqhke th Deytera, eipe oti hdh ginontai katagrafes kai qa yparjei ejorqologismos pros ta katw. Poia apo ta dyo isxyoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An metaferete swsta ta legomena toy k. Alogoskoyfh@

KORAH: Para poly swsta, giati egw eixa parei ayth th synenteyjh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Afoy loipon metaferete swsta ta legomena toy, poly swsta to eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs. To tonizw, giati den metaferete swsta ta dika moy legomena. Eipa oti qa prepei na skeftoyme pws exoyme na kanoyme me ena antagwnistiko topio. Kai se ena antagwnistiko topio qa prepei na leitoyrgoyn kanones analogoi me aytoys ths eleyqerhs agoras. Qa sas dwsw ena paradeigma: O Dieyqynths A@ mias idiwtikhs epixeirhshs kai o Dieyqynths A@ mias dhmosias epixeirhshs -poy exoyn to idio antikeimeno, to idio proion- an o enas ameibetai me 10 eyrw, den mporei o allos na ameibetai me 50 eyrw. O antagwnismos den einai mono na doqoyn xrhmata sto Dhmosio. Antagwnismos shmainei oti qa prepei na kinoyntai ekei peripoy poy ypagoreyoyn oi kanones ths agoras. Alliws, apo to shmeio ekeino kai meta arxizoyn ta erwthmata.

KAKALHS: Yioqetei h kybernhsh tis apajiwtikes dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia se baros toy Symboylioy ths Epikrateias; Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti yparxei problhma me th leitoyrgia kai dh tis apofaseis toy Symboylioy ths Epikrateias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Soyflias ekane mia poly sygkekrimenh dhlwsh. Qa hqela na pw oti poyqena den prokyptei apo th dhlwsh toy k. Soyflia oti apajiwnei h oti den sebetai o idios h h kybernhsh to opoiodhpote anwtato Dikasthrio. Qa hqela, epishs, na epishmanw oti o k. Soyflias exei terastia empeiria sthn politikh. Einai enas anqrwpos pragmatisths, zei sto shmera, gnwrizei poly kala ta pragmata, exei xrhmatisei polles fores ypoyrgos. Kai kapoies parathrhseis oi opoies mporei na ginontai, ginontai gia na bohqhqei o opoiosdhpote, na beltiwsei endexomenws th dikh toy doyleia. Den einai kako ayto.

GKOYTZANHS: Ap` oti katalaba apo thn apanthsh sas sthn prohgoymenh moy erwthsh, den yparxoyn epixeirhmaties shmera oi opoioi na ekmetalleyontai ta MME poy exoyn gia na paroyn doyleies, giati den toys to epitrepei h kybernhsh. Tote, mhpws ekmetalleyontai ta MME poy kapoioi exoyn gia na askoyn pieseis sthn kybernhsh; Prospaqw na katalabw ti nohma exei h synexish toy polemoy me th diaplokh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta MME askoyn dhmosio epaggelma @th lejh epaggelma xrhsimopoioysa kai otan hmoyn dhmosiografos, gia na mhn parejhghqw- h leitoyrghma, an protimoyn kapoioi apo sas. Kai afoy einai dhmosio, krinetai apo oloys. Den yparxei logos na kriqei apo emena. O kosmos blepei kai krinei.

Eyxaristw poly.

Shmeiwsh: H kaqhmerinh enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn qa epanalhfqei stis 9 Maioy 2005, hmera Deytera kai wra 13:00.

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