Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-03-30

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 30 Martioy 2005

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

Sxetika me ta xqesina gegonota kata th diarkeia toy agwna ths Eqnikhs Elpidwn Elladas-Albanias, hdh ejedwsa anakoinwsh, thn opoia qelw na epanalabw: Oi energeies misallodojias kai fanatismoy einai entelws jenes me to pneyma toy Aqlhtismoy. Oi xqesines asxhmies mias mikrhs omadas, mono kat` onoma filaqlwn, katadikazontai aperifrasta apo th syntriptikh pleionothta twn Ellhnwn.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 9 to prwi, qa synanthqei sto Megaro Majimoy me ton Amerikano anaplhrwth Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

XONDROS: Meta tis xqesines ejaggelies kai ta metra poy elabe h kybernhsh, aisqaneste oti eiste synepeis me tis proeklogikes ejaggelies; Dioti, shmera o k. Kaklamanhs, se mia synenteyjh sto FLASH eipe oti o idios den aisqanetai apolytws synephs me tis proeklogikes ejaggelies ths kybernhshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh, gia na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths oikonomias poy klhronomhse apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, hdh apo thn prwth stigmh, eixe anakoinwsei -kai menei pisth se aytes tis ejaggelies- oti h antimetwpish twn problhmatwn ginetai se mia logikh hpias prosarmoghs. Sto telos ths apografhs, h opoia edwse dystyxws qeamatika arnhtika apotelesmata, eprepe na labei ta ligotera dynata metra poy qa bohqoysan, etsi wste na antimetwpistei to meizon problhma poy afhse pisw toy to elleimma twn 6,1% toy AEP, otan h prohgoymenh kybernhsh prospaqoyse na mas peisei oti to elleimma htan kati ligotero apo to 2%. Ayta ta peripoy 8 dis eyrw, poy htan posa poy ypoektimhqhkan, opws eipa kai xqes, kai ta opoia den periegrafhsan se proypologismoys kai htan kryfa elleimmata, prepei na ta antimetwpisei ayth h kybernhsh. Kai prepei na ta antimetwpisei, giati h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh gnwrizei poly kala thn katastash, thn opoia -edw kai xronia- parakoloyqei. Ayta ta metra poy elabe h kybernhsh einai pros thn kateyqynsh lyshs enos meizonos problhmatos poy afhse pisw ths h prohgoymenh kybernhsh. Den einai pote eyxaristo na lambanontai metra ta opoia epibarynoyn, eytyxws en prokeimenw sto mikrotero dynato baqmo, ton Ellhna polith. Omws h alhqeia einai ayth poy sas anefera. Gnwrizoyn pleon kai oi Ellhnes polites kai oi koinotikoi mas etairoi oti h antimetwpish ginetai me swfrosynh, sebasmo ston Ellhna polith kai panw ap` ola, me prospaqeia meiwshs twn dapanwn toy Dhmosioy.

SIDERHS: Epi twn hmerwn sas, ta esoda katerreysan. Ti mas eggyatai oti to foro poy balate qa ton eisprajete kai den qa ginei ena akoma ``parti'' twn kerdoskopwn kai twn forofygadwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H glafyrh glwssa sas den qa me parasyrei sto na apanthsw to idio glafyra. Ayto poy eggyatai h shmerinh kybernhsh einai oti prospaqei na lysei ta problhmata se ena xronodiagramma to opoio gnwrizete, me tropo poy hdh gnwrizete. Otan, gia paradeigma, ston proypologismo toy 2005 ejoikonomoyntai ta posa poy anefera xqes -einai poly megala ta posa, panw apo 3,5 dis eyrw apo spatales h apo dapanes poy ginontan sto parelqon- antilambaneste oti ayto einai ena shmantiko deigma oxi aplws kalhs qelhshs, alla apotelesmatikhs doyleias.

GKOYTZANHS: O synadelfos eipe gia katarreysh twn esodwn, estw gia meiwmenh apotelesmatikothta toy mhxanismoy dhmosiwn esodwn. Eseis to amfisbhteite ayto h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me rwthse ti einai ayto poy eggyatai kai apanthsa.

GKOYTZANHS: An qelete na to qesw egw diaforetika: Ean mexri twra den katafere@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn hdh yparjei anakoinwseis, opws gnwrizete, apo ton Ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn kai ton Yfypoyrgo Oikonomikwn. H prospaqeia poy ginetai na ayjhqoyn ta esoda synexizetai me kalytera apotelesmata ap` o,ti ton Ianoyario kai to Febroyario.

GKOYTZANHS: Pantws, nomizw oti den exete apanthsei se ayto poy qa rwthsw: Ean den katafere h kybernhsh mexri twra na eisprajei to FPA kai exei problhma, giati qa to eisprajei twra poy anebase to FPA;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, h kybernhsh den stelnei toys 19 ypoyrgoys na eisprajoyn to FPA. Yparxei mia dhmosia mhxanh, mia dioikhtikh mhxanh, h opoia ergazetai kai prepei na ergazetai. Ayth h mhxanh prepei na ergastei kalytera. Kai qa ergastei kalytera.

GKOYTZANHS: Ayta poy eidame xqes htan ta prwta metra, h prwth desmh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yparxei prwth kai deyterh desmh. Ayta einai ta metra.

GKOYTZANHS: Dhladh, qelete na peite oti den qa akoloyqhsoyn alla metra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

KAKALHS: Ean h epibolh emmeswn forwn, twn pio epaxqwn forwn gia ta laika strwmata, ycoys toylaxiston 2 dis eyrw epipleon, einai hpia prosarmogh, tote poia einai h agria prosarmogh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H hpia prosarmogh anadyetai apo toys pinakes toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn poy exete sta xeria sas, apo xqes, apo. Dhladh ta esoda poy qa antlhqoyn apo ta metra poy anakoinwqhkan. Einai pragmatika hpia h prosarmogh, arkei kaneis na ypologisei oti opoiosdhpote sympoliths mas jodeye 500 eyrw to mhna gia ta ejoda toy, me thn ayjhsh toy 1% sto FPA, to ejodo toy qa ayjhqei kata 3,5 eyrw to mhna. Mesostaqmika h ayjhsh toy 1% einai peripoy sto 0,7. Den einai bebaiws eyxaristo. Kanenas den xairetai gi ayto. Eipame polles fores kai to dieykrinise kai o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn, to eipa ki egw xqes, oti anagkazomaste na paroyme kapoia metra giati h katastash poy paralabame htan poly xeiroterh apo ayth poy mporoyse kapoios na fantastei. Kai ayta ta metra einai ta elaxista dynata, etsi wste na mh metakylhqoyn ta barh stoys oikonomika asqenesteroys polites.

KAKALHS: Ean moy epitrepete h kaqe oikogeneia qa plhrwnei 480 eyrw to xrono emmesoys foroys. Fysika einai enas misqos ean ypologisoyme oti o katwteros misqos einai gyrw sta 580 eyrw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eida kapoia dhmosieymata shmera, ta opoia eixan prospaqhsei na ftiajoyn ena sympilhma toy ti qa plhrwnei kaneis synolika. Den synebh to idio otan eixame thn ayjhsh apodoxwn, eite apo to LAFKA, eite tis ayjhseis. Opws qymaste tote egine diairesh, twra egine pollaplasiasmos kai prosqesh.

XIWTHS: Ean katalaba kala, thn apanthsh poy dwsate sthn prohgoymenh erwthsh toy synadelfoy, lete oti den qa yparjoyn alla metra. Analambanete, dhladh, th desmeysh, me plhrh gnwsh ths katastashs ths oikonomias pleon, oti den qa yparjei mexri th lhjh ths 4etias, ayjhsh sta kaysima h ayjhsh sto FPA akinhtwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa gia ta metra, ta opoia qa bohqhsoyn sto na antimetwpistei to megalo problhma toy elleimmatos. Opws gnwrizete, ta kaysima ejartwntai apo mia seira paragontwn, o megalyteros twn opoiwn einai o dieqnhs. Ara, loipon, ean eseis desmeyqeite oti dieqnws ta kaysima den qa ayjhqoyn kaqoloy, opoiadhpote kybernhsh qa mporoyse na desmeyqei apenanti sas oti den qa yparjei ayjhsh.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, einai allo pragma h dieqnhs timh kai allo o eidikos foros katanalwshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan ena qema ektimatai h synektimatai me alloys paragontes, antilambaneste oti egw qa eimai o teleytaios poy qa desmeyqw se ayto poy anaferate prin.

TSIODRAS: Qelw na synexisw ayth th syzhthsh, kat` arxas, giati sta kaysima ontws pera apo tis dieqneis times, to erwthma einai ean qa ayjhqei edw o foros, pera apo to oti problepetai oti toy xronoy qa yparjei megalyterh ayjhsh sta esoda. Ean ayto shmainei oti qa epiblhqoyn neoi foroi h ean teleiwse h dieyrynsh ths forologikhs bashs -opws eixe pei o Prwqypoyrgos stis Bryjelles- edw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai safes, meta apo ta osa eipe xqes o ypoyrgos Oikonomias, oti ayta ta metra antimetwpizoyn to problhma toy elleimmatos. Ena problhma -poy opws sas anelysa xqes kai shmera- einai toso megalo, wste na fqanei peripoy sta 8 dis eyrw.

POYLIDOY: Hqela na sas rwthsw ean me thn aneparkeia poy emfanisthke xqes apo tis astynomikes arxes sthn thrhsh ths tajhs ston podosfairiko agwna Eqnikhs Elpidwn Elladas-Albanias, ean ayto egine kapoio maqhma gia na lhfqoyn kalytera metra apoce.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, yparxei sygkekrimenos ariqmos astynomikwn poy asxoloyntai me ta metra tajhs sta ghpeda, kata th diarkeia twn agwnwn. Yparxei problech gia diafora senaria, apo o,ti gnwrizw, se kaqe agwna. Ginetai prospaqeia na exoyme thn oso to dynaton kalyterh diejagwgh agwnwn, xwris epeisodia bias h epeisodia san ayto poy anaferate kai sto opoio anaferqhka ki egw eisagwgika. H prospaqeia einai diarkhs kai prepei na beltiwnetai.

PALAIOLOGOS: Shmera dhmosieyetai to porisma twn empeirognwmonwn toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn gia ta oikonomika toy Patriarxeioy Ierosolymwn. Meta th dhmosiopoihsh aytoy toy porismatos, h kybernhsh protiqetai na probei se kapoies alles energeies, poy aforoyn ton Patriarxh h tis yphresies toy Patriarxeioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa dhmosiopoihqei to porisma, qa to deite kai qa syzhthsoyme. Pantws, o,ti problepetai na ginei apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, ginetai.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh moy exei meinei mia aporia gi ayth thn prospaqeia poy kanei h kybernhsh na mhn epibarynqoyn ta xamhlotera eisodhmatika strwmata, h ayjhsh ths timhs twn pio fqhnwn tsigarwn kai twn ligotero kalhs poiothtas, poioys aggizei; Aggizei ta ychla eisodhmatika strwmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. H ayjhsh ths timhs twn tsigarwn, poy einai poly fqhna symbadizei pleon me tis times poy exei to proion sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. H lhch twn metrwn -opws eipa prin- ginetai gia enan poly sygkekrimeno skopo. Den prepei na jexna kaneis -giati h sygkrish me to parelqon einai panta shmantikh, alla kai h sygkrish me alloys einai, epishs, shmantikh- oti h epibolh twn elaxistwn aytwn metrwn pros thn kateyqynsh ths hpias prosarmoghs, sygkrinomenh me thn epibolh twn metrwn apo to 1994 ews to 2004, einai pragmatika logikh hpias prosarmoghs. Ean kaneis anatrejei ston katalogo twn dekadwn metrwn, pragmatika yphrxe forokataigida. Exete katalabei sygkritika ti synebaine sto parelqon kai ti symbainei twra. Exw enan makrotato katalogo apo to 1994 ews twra, to qymaste; Eixame ayjhseis dekadwn forwn kai malista kai ameswn forwn sthn tseph toy Ellhna forologoymenoy. Kai para tayta h oikonomia den orqopodhse, logw twn kakwn xeirismwn poy eginan apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh. Emeis phrame mia desmeysh kai ayth th desmeysh qa thn thrhsoyme. Kanoyme to kalytero dynato, etsi wste h xwra mas na mporesei na bgei apo ayto to oikonomiko telma, sto opoio mphke ta teleytaia xronia diakybernhshs toy PASOK. Kanoyme o,ti einai dynato gia na mporesoyme na apokatasthsoyme to kyros ths xwras mas sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

TSIODRAS: Giati den pate tria xronia prin; Giati lete apo to 1994 kai den pate apo to 1990; Giati to 1990 @ 1993 nomizw oti epiblhqhkan ta pio sklhra metra sthn oikonomia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Afoy me prokaleite, loipon, na sas diabasw ton katalogo. Orejh na exete na grafete. Me to nomo 2187 poy katateqhke sth Boylh@

TSIODRAS: Den exoyme kai emeis ton katalogo twn prohgoymenwn triwn xronwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, o rolos sas einai na ton breite, an qelete na antipoliteyqeite thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias thn periodo 1990-1993. Den exw kamia antirrhsh.

TSIODRAS: Oxi, den qelw na antipoliteyqw tipota. Erwthsh kanw ws dhmosiografos. Den eimai politikos gia na antipoliteyomai h na sympoliteyomai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw qa sas diabasw mia seira metrwn. Eimai bebaios oti kai eseis eixate apasxolhqei kai eixate ypobalei antistoixes erwthseis stoys antistoixoys kybernhtikoys ekproswpoys, gi` ayta ta dekades metra. Den qa ta metrhsw, mporw omws na sas ta dwsw analytika.

To 1994:

Ayjhqhkan anadromika gia to 1993 ta tekmhria twn I.X. apo 15% se 30%.

Ayjhqhke h forologia twn tsigarwn kata 20%, ayjanontas kata 50 drx. thn timh toys.

Ayjhqhke h forologia, kata 10 drx. to litro, sthn amolybdh kai th benzinh soyper.

Ayjhqhke kata 100% (diplasiasthke) to eidiko telos twn pinakidwn kykloforias twn kainoyrgiwn aytokinhtwn.

Gia foroys klhronomias k.lp., ta afhnw gia na mh sas koyrazw.

To 1995@

TSIODRAS: To 1990 @ 1993 poso ayjhqhke o foros sth benzinh; Qymaste;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Jerete, xairomai otan anafereste stis periodoys diakybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, giati ontws tote mphkan oi baseis gia sobara pragmata. Apo tis idiwtikopoihseis gia tis opoies tote htan anendoto to PASOK -``mia metoxh'' qymaste oti elege o aeimnhstos Andreas Papandreoy kai olo to PASOK, alla jekinhse tis idiwtikopoihseis me to streblo tropo poy tis ekane- ews to asfalistiko systhma. To oti exoyme shmera asfalistiko systhma ofeiletai se ekeinh th diakybernhsh.

TSIODRAS: Moy epitrepete kati gia thn oikonomia ths syzhthshs; Nai, alla eseis den eixate pei oti ``qa baloyme ligoteroys foroys apo to PASOK''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Synexizw me toys foroys toy 1995.

Epeblhqh h forologhsh me ta perifhma antikeimenika krithria gia ton prosdiorismo toy elaxistoy kaqaroy eisodhmatos twn epithdeymatiwn kai twn eleyqerwn epaggelmatiwn. H forologia ayth ayjhse th forologia twn sygkekrimenwn forologoymenwn kata 70% me ta gnwsta apotelesmata gia thn tyxh twn mikromesaiwn epixeirhsewn.

Epeblhqh gia toys planodioys mikropwlhtes ethsio efapaj poso foroy 50.000 drx. se poleis katw twn 200.000 katoikwn kai 75.000 drx. se poleis me plhqysmo anw twn 200.000 katoikwn.

Ayjhqhke se 40% apo 35% o foros twn hmedapwn Anwnymwn Etairiwn poy den htan sto Xrhmatisthrio.

Qa anaferqw se ligoys apo toys foroys toy 1996:

Perioristhke to poso ths ekptwshs gia iatrofarmakeytikh periqalch @ to koinwniko sosialistiko PASOK periorise to 1996 to poso ths ekptwshs gia iatrofarmakeytikh periqalch- ws ejhs: Oi dapanes noshliwn ejepiptan sto synolo toys epi prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn, stis opoies anaferqhkate, an oi forologoymenoi exoyn synoliko oikogeneiako eisodhma mexri 10 ekat. drx. kai to 50% twn dapanwn aytwn gia to oikogeneiako eisodhma apo 10 @ 15 ekat. drx.

Katarghqhke h ekptwsh gia dikhgorikes amoibes poy htan mexri 200.000 drx.

Katarghqhke h dynatothta metaforas toy posoy twn dwrewn poy ekane kapoios forologoymenos sta epomena dyo xronia.

Epeblhqh foros 20% gia ta posa twn dwrewn kai xorhgiwn anw twn 100.000 drx.

Katarghqhke h meiwsh toy foroy mexri 200.000 drx. gia tis forologikes dhlwseis eilikrinwn eleyqerwn epaggelmatiwn, forologoymenwn, kaqws kai analogh ekptwsh poy isxye kai gia aploys eilikrineis forologoymenoys.

Den timariqmopoihqhke h forologikh klimaka kai den ayjhqhkan analoga kai ta aforologhta posa eisodhmatos.

Oi foroi toy 1997:

Ayjhqhke sto 7,25%, apo 6,25%, h misqwtikh ajia ths epaggelmatikhs steghs gia mikromesaioys kai eleyqeroys epaggelmaties. H ayjhsh toy posostoy aytoy prokalese ayjhsh ths forologias twn sygkekrimenwn kathgoriwn forologoymenwn ews kai 40%.

Ayjhqhkan ta tekmhria diabiwshs kai aytokinhtoy apo 10% ews kai 13% se sxesh me ayta poy isxyan to 1996.

Ayjhqhke to tekmhrio ths katoxhs motosikletas h tritroxoy oxhmatos 500 kybikwn se 1 ekatommyrio drx. apo 800.000 drx. poy htan.

Epeblhqh foros sth megalh akinhth perioysia (F.M.A.P.).

TSIODRAS: Qa epitrecete na feroyme enan katalogo gia ta xronia 1990 @ 1993 gia na ginei dialogos, giati etsi den ginetai.

BAGIANOS: Qa apanthsete etsi ston polith an sas rwthsei giati pairnete metra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete erwthseis kai dinw apanthseis. Ektos kai an qelete na moy kanete erwthseis me sxolia kai na mhn pairnete tis apanthseis.

TSIODRAS: Den sas rwthsame gia to 1994-2004. Rwthsame gia to 1990- 1993.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy dwsate aformh na anaferqw. Milhsan kapoioi -kai dh to PASOK- gia ``forokataigida kai forolailapa''.

GKOYTZANHS: Afhste me na sas pw kati, kyrie Ekproswpe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw poly. Apantw se mia erwthsh. Ean den qelete h den sas aresei h apanthsh, perimenete ews otoy oloklhrwsw thn apanthsh moy gia na ypobalete thn epomenh erwthsh.

TSIODRAS: H erwthsh einai gia to 1990-1993, kyrie Ekproswpe. Den einai gia to 1994-2004.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den sas endiaferei ti egine apo to 1994 ews to 2004, otan epeblhqhsan dekades foroi ston ellhniko lao; Moy kanei entypwsh oti epimenete gia tetarth fora pws h erwthsh einai gia to 1990-1993. Akoloyqhsan deka xronia, me mia kybernhsh h opoia epebale dekades foroys -edw zoyme, jeroyme poly kala posoys foroys epebale- kai anti na diorqwsei thn oikonomia, thn eftase se tetoia katastash opoy erxetai h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias, pairnei kapoia metra -kai milhsa poly anoixta, eilikrina, apo kardias gi` ayta ta metra- gia na mporesei na diorqwsei ola ayta ta laqh toy parelqontos kai eseis moy lete ti egine to 1990-1993.

TSIODRAS: Den sas lew ti egine to 1990-1993. Milate gia to 1994-2004. Exei apotimhqei stis ekloges kai to ti egine to 1994 kai to ti egine to 2004 kai exei kriqei apo ton ellhniko lao. H dikh moy erwthsh einai, giati, efoson anafereste@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai mhdenistikh h logikh sas, dioti h apotimhsh sthn opoia anafereste exei na kanei me to eklogiko apotelesma. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, yparxei kai to apotelesma poy afhse pisw ths mia kybernhsh. Mia kybernhsh poy mas afhse tetoia problhmata, wste na kaleitai h epomenh kybernhsh na ta lysei.

TSIODRAS: Ma ta jerate, kyrie Ekproswpe. Anatrexw se omilies stelexwn ths Neas Dhmokratias sth Boylh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete thn entypwsh oti h epomenh kybernhsh einai eyxaristhmenh me to na prospaqei na lysei ola ayta ta problhmata kai na anakalyptei synexws se syrtaria kai ``katw apo ta xalia'' olo kai kainoyrgia problhmata;

TSIODRAS: Ta hjere. Ma, toys foroys poy mas lete oti exoyn epiblhqei h to ti egine, exoyn anakoinwqei dhmosiws, yparxoyn stis efhmerides kai exoyn apotimhqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To elleimma htan 1,8% kata ton k. Shmith kai to PASOK, 6,1% kata thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh: 1,8% - 6,1%. H diafora einai peripoy 8 dis eyrw. Ta 8 dis eyrw einai terastio poso. Prepei na to akoysei o Ellhnas poliths kai na to gnwrizei. Ta 8 dis eyrw den krybontai eykola katw apo to xali. Me logistikes alxhmeies epi xronia, kryfthkan ayta ta xrhmata kai htan xrhmata toy Ellhna forologoymenoy.

TSIODRAS: Ma eseis miloysate gia ``kryfo elleimma''. H Nea Dhmokratia kai ta stelexh ths.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O Ellhnas forologoymenos ta plhrwse me aima kai me idrwta, me dekades foroys san aytoys poy sas anefera kai polloys alloys, toys opoioys gia thn oikonomia ths syzhthshs den anaferw. Kai erxetai shmera to PASOK na milhsei -gia thn ayjhsh 1% toy FPA- gia ``forokataigida kai forolailapa''. Ligh ntroph pia sto PASOK!

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exw mia aporia, h opoia jekinhse apo th xqesinh enhmerwsh poy ekane o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias k. Alogoskoyfhs, synexisthke shmera apo thn enhmerwsh poy exw apo tis efhmerides kai ftanei mexri ayth th stigmh poy mas enhmerwnete. Blepw mia sigoyria kai mia eyxereia qa elega, h opoia me peiqei men, alla me briskei diaforopoihmeno apo to xqes. Ti allaje shmera poy h kybernhsh katebainei me ayta ta opla kai me ayth thn epixeirhmatologia gia na peisei ton ellhniko lao oti olh ayth h hpia prosarmogh forologias poy kanate shmera, mexri pote qa paei gia na mporesei o ellhnikos laos ayrio na pisteyei oti qa stamathsei ayth h hpia prosarmogh forwn kai qa brei o ellhnikos laos kapoia stigmh to dromo toy. Dhladh, na parei ayjhseis h na stamathsei h foromphxtikh politikh olwn twn xronwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws exei, hdh, anakoinwqei apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, ton Prwqypoyrgo, alla kai apo ton Ypoyrgo Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn xqes, yparxei mprosta mas mia krisimh dietia gia na mporesoyme na antimetwpisoyme ta megala problhmata, na antimetwpisoyme to megalo elleimma. Prepei, se ayth th dietia, na ejeyreqoyn ekeina ta xrhmata poy apoteloyn -opws eipa kai prohgoymenws- to synoliko poso toy elleimmatos poy afhse pisw toy to PASOK. Na meiwsoyme to elleimma katw apo to 3%, wste na mporesoyme na synexisoyme se mia politikh, opws oi ypoloipes eyrwpaikes xwres. Ayth h politikh sta epomena dyo xronia qa apoferei se tetoio baqmo, wste na eimaste katw apo to 3% sto elleimma mas epi toy AEP.

XONDROS: H nea diakybernhsh xrhsimopoiei epixeirhmata toy xqes. Qelw na pw oti apo thn kamenh gh toy @81, mexri thn kamenh gh toy 2004 kapoios ftaiei. Eftaigan oi kybernhseis ths Dejias gia 50 xronia, meta eftaige to PASOK, meta o Mhtsotakhs, twra ftaine oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis. Oi polites se ti ftaine; Dioti aytoi kaloyntai na plhrwsoyn to marmaro. Dioti ta metra ths emmeshs forologias plhttoyn toys asqenesteroys. Paei to poto, paei to tsigaro, paei to ena, paei to allo. Ws pote ta pepragmena twn prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn qa apoteloyn alloqi gia tis epomenes kybernhseis, prokeimenoy na bazoyn foroys; Ayto einai to erwthma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, h lejh ``alloqi'', thn opoia xrhsimopoihsate, einai san na ennoei oti kapoia kybernhsh qelei na parei kapoia metra na ayjhsei to FPA en prokeimenw, stoys emmesoys foroys gia ta pota kai ta tsigara. Den isxyei ayto. Sas diabebaiwnw oti den einai eyxaristh h qesh kamias kybernhshs, eite ths Neas Dhmokratias, eite toy PASOK, na prospaqei na lysei oikonomika problhmata. To erwthma, omws, einai an h mia kybernhsh prospaqei pragmatika na ta lysei, sebomenh to xrhma toy Ellhna polith, enw h allh kybernhsh, ayjanontas me polloys foroys ta esoda toy kratoys, anti na lysei ta problhmata, ta megalwse. Kai ta megalwse, giati yphrjan polles spatales se ayto ton topo. Kai einai gnwsto oti yphrjan spatales. Den einai ligo otan mesa se enan Proypologismo mporei mia nea kybernhsh na proypologisei esoda 3,5 kai pleon disekatommyriwn eyrw apo dapanes toy kratoys. Emeis, loipon, hrqame me mia logikh: Prwta ap` ola, na deijoyme me to paradeigma mas oti jekiname apo toys eaytoys mas. Dhladh, oti jekiname apo th dioikhsh toy kratoys, mias kai ayth h kybernhsh ejelegh apo ton ellhniko lao na kybernhsei th xwra. Otan, loipon, den dwseis prwtos to paradeigma -kai to dinoyme to paradeigma- o Ellhnas poliths den qa pistecei pote oti endiaferesai sta sobara na lyseis ta problhmata. Bebaiws, opws eipate ki eseis, o Ellhnas poliths qa anarwthqei. To eipe kai o Prwqypoyrgos, sth synenteyjh toy stoys Ellhnes polites, oti exete akoysei kai alloys Prwqypoyrgoys na sas lene to idio pragma. Ayto den to exei pei kanenas allos Prwqypoyrgos. Kai desmeyqhke me thn kybernhsh oti qa prospaqhsei na lysei ayto to problhma. To oikonomiko epiteleio eishghqhke ayta ta metra poy elabe synolika h kybernhsh, gia na mporesoyme na antimetwpisoyme to megalo ayto problhma toy elleimmatos. Den einai metra ta opoia ta pairnei kapoios sthn tyxh. Ta phrame me poly meleth, kopo kai pono, gia na mporesoyme na antimetwpisoyme ena megalo problhma. Einai anamfisbhthth alhqeia oti ayto to problhma klhronomhqhke apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh.

XONDROS: Den qa mporoyse h kybernhsh, pera apo ton eykolo dromo, dhladh anebazontas to FPA, ta tsigara, ta pota, pragmata poy eixan kanei kai oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis me to idio epixeirhma@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws sas apedeija prohgoymenws, oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis, ekanan polla perissotera.

XONDROS: Estw se megalytero baqmo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Edw milame gia 60 me 70 foroys poy ephreazan amesa thn tseph toy Ellhna polith kai oi opoioi ejakoloyqoyn na isxyoyn.

XONDROS: Eseis den eixate pei oti qa erqoyme na baloyme ligoteroys foroys. Den yphrxe enas allos dromos gia na gemisoyn ta tameia toy kratoys, xwris na plhrwsei h megalh pleiochfia toy kosmoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O ligotero sklhros dromos poy epelegh htan aytos. O ligotero odynhros tropos.

LEONTITSH: Mporeite na moy peite, ean h kybernhsh symfwnei me tis xqesines dhlwseis toy ekproswpoy Typoy toy armodioy Epitropoy ths Komision gia th dieyrynsh, o opoios eipe oti h Toyrkia den einai ypoxrewmenh na anagnwrisei thn Kypriakh Dhmokratia ews tis 3 Oktwbrioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo o,ti gnwrizw, h Toyrkia desmeythke oti, dia epistolhs ths sthn Komision, qa ypogracei to prwtokollo ths Agkyras. Ejalloy, sthn ypoxrewsh ayth exei desmeytei apo tis 17 toy perasmenoy Dekembrioy.

POYLIDOY: Proeklogika, stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias miloysan gia ejoikonomhsh 10 dis eyrw apo dhmosies spatales. Ara, eiste poly pisw apo toys stoxoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean ypologisoyme oti ston prwto xrono o Proypologismos mila gia 3,5 me 3,7 dis eyrw, antilambaneste oti sth diarkeia twn tessarwn Proypologismwn ths tetraetias eimaste entos kai parapanw apo toys stoxoys mas. Apla, qelw na sas ypenqymisw oti ayto htan ekqesh ths Eyrwpaikhs Kentrikhs Trapezas.

POYLIDOY: Ep` aytoy, qelw na sas pw oti stis dhmosies spatales einai oi dhmosioi misqoi, einai oi syntajeis kai oi dhmosies ependyseis. Ti apo ola qa kocete; Poies alles einai oi dhmosies dapanes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws eidate, ejoikonomoyntai xrhmata ston Proypologismo, xwris na xreiastei na kopei tipota apo ola ayta poy lete.

POYLIDOY: Kophkan oi dhmosies ependyseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei mia seira apo spatales poy eixan ginei kai agores -oi opoies einai apo poly mikres ews poly megales- gia tis opoies h kybernhsh elabe hdh apofash kai tis ekoce. Den einai ligo ayto. ``Fasoyli to fasoyli gemizei to sakoyli''. Polla tetoioy eidoys kondylia apo to Dhmosio, mikrotera h megalytera, poy kophkan fetos gia prwth fora, htan kondylia ta opoia fainetai oti den xreiazontan na einai toso ychla. Mporoyse, dhladh, na ta kataferei to Dhmosio me ligotera xrhmata. Ara, eimaste entos toy stoxoy kai isws kai parapanw.

POYLIDOY: Pws skefteste na antimetwpisete ton plhqwrismo me thn ayjhsh twn emmeswn forwn; Epishs, epeidh milate gia mia dyskolh dietia, sas ypenqymizw oti sthn Portogalia, h opoia petyxe toys stoxoys ths ws pros to elleimma, kindyneyei na mpei ypo epithrhsh, giati akribws molis petyxe to stoxo ths, jekinhse h epideinwsh twn deiktwn. Ara, xreiazetai kai mia prospaqeia diathrhshs twn stoxwn. Pws eiste sigoyros oti sth dietia qa teleiwsei ayth h sklhrh hpia prosarmogh h opws qelete peite thn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milw gia to pws qa meiwsoyme to elleimma katw apo to 3%. Giati ayto einai mia prospaqeia twn perissoterwn xwrwn, opws gnwrizete. Bebaiws, exete dikio oti sthn oikonomia mia apofash mporei na leitoyrghsei sth logikh twn sygkoinwnoyntwn doxeiwn kai na ephreasei kapoion allo deikth. Ginetai, loipon, entonh prospaqeia apo to oikonomiko epiteleio ths kybernhshs, prokeimenoy na antimetwpistoyn ta problhmata poy anaferate.

PEPONHS: Exoyme ta ejhs dedomena: Prwton, oi times diamorfwnontai eleyqera. Deyteron, eseis xqes apofasisate thn ayjhsh ths forologias kati poy shmainei kai parallhlh ayjhsh twn timwn. Edw qa xrhsimopoihsw kai thn paroimia poy leei oti ``o lykos sthn anampoympoyla xairetai'' gia na sas pw oti ena paromoio klima exei hdh arxisei, apo xqes, na diamorfwnetai sthn agora kai pio sygkekrimena apo toys idioys toys katoxoys twn proiontwn. To klima ayto exei na kanei me stroggylopoihseis twn timwn kai parapleyres ayjhseis poy endexomenws na einai pera apo tis hdh ejaggelqeises kai aitiologhmenes. Ginetai logos akomh kai gia ena klima forodiafyghs. Eseis exete kapoio sxedio drashs kai parembashs sthn agora me stoxo thn apotroph tetoiwn fainomenwn; Ektimw pws kati tetoio mexri twra den exei diafanei oyte mesa apo tis dikes sas dhlwseis oyte apo tis dhlwseis toy k. Alogoskoyfh xqes. Estw na doqei kati sxetiko apo pleyras kybernhshs ws mhnyma sthn agora kai na apotrapoyn tetoia fainomena.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To mhnyma poy stelnei h kybernhsh sthn agora einai oti prepei na apotrapoyn tetoia fainomena. Shmasia exei oti hdh, apo to Ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs, enteinontai oi elegxoi. Oi poines einai para poly aysthres gia osoys prospaqhsoyn na ekmetalleytoyn, opws eipate, ayth thn monadiaia ayjhsh toy FPA.

SIDERHS: Eipate oti dinete to paradeigma. Se ayto entassetai profanws kai h dioikhsh toy OSE h opoia edwse ws mponoys to eptaplasio twn misqwn se galazia stelexh poy exoyn analabei prosfatws qeseis ston Organismo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw an ta pragmata einai opws ta lete. Wstoso qa rwthsw to armodio Ypoyrgeio, ean kai efoson isxyei ayto poy lete eseis, na mas dwsei mia apanthsh.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Apantwntas se erwthsh synadelfoy nwritera eipate pws gia ta tsigara, oi times, pleon, symbadizoyn me aytes sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Qelw na sas rwthsw eyqews: oi misqoi toy ellhna polith symbadizoyn me toys antistoixoys sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayth einai h megalh prospaqeia mas. Na symbadisoyn oi misqoi toy ellhna polith me toys antistoixoys sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Sas qymizw oti oi ekqeseis toy parelqontos, me thn politikh poy akoloyqhqhke apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai apo ekqeseis dioikhtwn trapezwn -oi dioikhtes aytoi den htan ths epiloghs ths Neas Dhmokratias afoy den htan kybernhsh tote- miloysan gia sygklish se 75 xronia. H prospaqeia mas einai sthn kateyqynsh toy na ginei h sygklish ayth poly grhgorotera.

TSIODRAS: Eipate gia ejoikonomhsh toy posoy twn 10 dis eyrw se orizonta tetraetias. Nomizw oti htan proeklogikh sas yposxesh gia 10 dis eyrw ethsiws an den kanw laqos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ekqesh ths Eyrwpaikhs Kentrikhs Trapezas, thn opoia amfisbhthse tote h kybernhsh toy PASOK, elege oti sthn Ellada apo spatales sto dhmosio tomea kai apo diadikasies diafqoras kai diafaneias, xanontai kaqe xrono toylaxiston 10 dis eyrw. Emeis loipon kanoyme mia prospaqeia na kerdisoyme ta xamena xrhmata. Exoyme hdh noikokyrecei arketa th dhmosia dioikhsh sta oikonomika ths megeqh etsi opws problepontai apo ton Proypologismo toy 2005. H prospaqeia ayth einai diarkhs.

GKOYTZANHS: Ayto poy hqela na sas pw prohgoymenws einai oti ola ayta poy legate th stigmh ekeinh gia to PASOK mporei na einai poly kala alla qa htan akoma kalytera an ta legate se ekproswpoys toy PASOK. Emeis den eimaste ekproswpoi toy PASOK oyte kai apologhtes toy. Eimaste dhmosiografoi, orismenoi ej hmwn kaname thn idia kritikh sto PASOK gia foromphxtikh kai anapotelesmatikh oikonomikh politikh kai shmera elegxoyme thn kybernhsh sas toso ws pros thn apotelesmatikothta ths oso kai ws pros th synepeia logwn kai ergwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti me adikeite. Egw anaferqhka, me aformh erwthshs synadelfoy sas, sta osa akoysa na legontai apo to PASOK. Nomizw oti qa moy epitrecete na exw to dikaiwma ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos na sxoliazw, akomh kai an den me rwthsate eyqews opws kanete merikes fores, thn antidrash toy PASOK. Den einai synepws kanenos eidoys proswpikh aixmh se kanena dhmosiografo. Opws eipa kai sthn arxh kai en synolw kai kata monada, sebomai ton kaqe dhmosiografo, to epaggelma toy kai to leitoyrghma toy.

TSIODRAS: Ean anafereste sth dikh moy erwthsh, den exei kamia sxesh me thn kritikh toy PASOK.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den anaferomai se kamia sygkekrimenh erwthsh. Aformh apo erwthsh mporei na doqei kai na apanthsei o kaqe Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos.

GKOYTZANHS: Ayto poy hqela na rwthsw einai oti otan palaiotera rwtoysame toys oikonomikoys Ypoyrgoys apo poy qa ejoikonomhqoyn oi poroi gia thn kalych toy elleimmatos kai gia thn kalych twn koinwnikwn dapanwn, apantoysan me ton idio tropo: Mesa apo ton periorismo ths dhmosias spatalhs. Profanws oi oikonomikoi Ypoyrgoi ths prohgoymenhs kybernhshs den ti petyxan h den to petyxan sto baqmo poy eixan ypologisei, poy eixe ypologisei h kybernhsh toys. Ena deytero erwthma poy qelw na prosqesw einai oti an den apatwmai, shmera me ta dika sas stoixeia, to elleimma gia to 2003 htan sto 4%. Gia to 2004 to elleimma ayto ayjhqhke sto 6%. Ayth h diafora ayjhshs toy 2% proseteqh epi dikhs sas qhteias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto poy eixame pei einai oti proypologizetai to elleimma na einai se poly ychlotera pososta apo ayta poy mas elege to PASOK. Opws sas eipa ligo pio prin -kai exei eipwqei kai apo alloys paragontes ths kybernhshs- den perimename oti qa einai sto 6,1% opws telikws eftase na einai. Einai dhladh pentaplasio apo ayto poy mas eixe pei oti qa einai, to PASOK.

GKOYTZANHS: Ayto poy rwthsa egw kai diorqwste me an den einai swsto to stoixeio, nomizw, oti symfwna me ta dika sas stoixeia, ayjhqhke kata 2% epi dikhs sas kybernhsews.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. H apografh otan teleiwse, stis arxes toy mhna, edeije -kai ayto anakoinwqhke epishmws kai edw kai stis Bryjeles- elleimma ycoys 6,1%. Ews ena shmeio -dhladh ton perasmeno Septembrio, me ta stoixeia poy eixame tote- to elleimma emfanizotan na einai gyrw sto 4%. Ektote briskame diarkws ``mayres trypes''. Briskame diarkws logariasmoys poy den eixan ypologistei stoys Proypologismoys. Ara loipon otan teleiwse, eixame pia kai thn oristikh eikona.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Eipate oti mas perimenei mia dyskolh dietia. Afoy loipon parelqei ayth h dietia, h kybernhsh skopeyei na gyrisei selida kai na mhn katalhgei sto ``gia ola ftaiei to PASOK''; Ayto kriqhke. Fantazomai oti an synexisete na to epikaleiste mporei kapoia stigmh na koyrasei toys Ellhnes polites.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An etsi to antilambaneste, tote to antilambaneste laqos. Opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, apanthsa se erwthmata ta opoia moy edwsan thn aformh na anaferqw sta osa akoysa na legontai apo stelexh toy PASOK. Otan loipon, ena komma poy kybernhse th xwra epi deka xronia, episwreyse ta problhmata, epiballontas dekades foroys kai afhse ena terastio elleimma stoys Ellhnes polites -giati den fantazomai na amfisbhtei kaneis to megalo elleimma poy afhse pisw toy shmera, oyte oi idioi apo to PASOK to amfisbhtoyn, hrqan h Komision, h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph kai h Eurostat epishmws kai to eipe- eipa kai epanalambanw kai qa to lew sto dihnekes den dikaioytai na omilei gia forokataigida, opws akoysa stelexh toy PASOK na lene me thn epibolh toy 1% sto FPA kai twn emmeswn forwn sta pota kai ta tsigara. Qa to epanalabw: Kamia kybernhsh, se opoion xwro kai na anhkei, den einai eyxaristhmenh me to na anagkazetai na parei kapoia metra tetoioy eidoys. Oi kybernhseis ana ton kosmo qa einai eyxaristhmenes me to na dinoyn stoys polites toy kratoys poy kybernoyn, oso perissotera ginetai. Prospaqoyme na kalycoyme tis trypes aytes toy parelqontos. Prospaqoyme na jeperasoyme ena problhma. Na apokatasthsoyme thn ajiopistia mas ws xwra sthn Komision, sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai stoys etairoys mas gia thn isxyrh oikonomia ths xwras mas, me erga kai oxi me logia kai taytoxronws na epibarynqei kata to ligotero dynato o Ellhnas poliths me parallhles energeies opws enisxysh twn ependysewn, tis aparaithtes diarqrwtikes allages, me ejeyresh newn kefalaiwn kai qesewn ergasias etsi wste na mporesei na zhsei se kalytero periballon. Gnwrizw kai antilambanomai -edw zw ki egw- oti oi Ellhnes polites anarwtioyntai ayto poy eipe o synadelfos sas prohgoymenws: ``Ma epiteloys ws pote ki egw qa kaloymai na qysiazomai kai na plhrwnw spasmena prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn''. Ayth h kybernhsh exei mia terastia diafora apo thn prohgoymenh: Den ekryce tipota, prospaqhse me ton diaygestero tropo na kanei ton Ellhna polith na katanohsei to problhma. Gnwstopoihse to problhma kai me ariqmoys kai me xronodiagramma. Pisteyoyme akradanta oti sta dyo ayta xronia, otan qa lhjei to xronodiagramma ayto, qa to exoyme antimetwpisei sto megalytero pososto toy. Qa exoyme kataferei dhladh na katebasoyme to elleimma sta oria poy epibalei h symfwnia anamesa stis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

XIWTHS: Kai otan meiwqei to elleimma na ypoqesoyme oti aytoi oi neoi foroi poy epebale xqes h kybernhsh qa arqoyn; Dioti monos sas kanate mia katagrafh mias forologikhs kataigidas opws th xarakthrisate epi PASOK thn opoia omws h kybernhsh synexizei na ajiopoiei gia na mazeyei esoda. Efoson loipon katorqwsate kai piasate toys stoxoys poy exete qesei, qa arxisete na apoklimakwnete thn forologia ston polith h aplws qa synexisete na eisprattete esoda gia nees paroxes dhmioyrgwntas etsi ena faylo kyklo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H prospaqeia na lyqoyn ta problhmata kai na mhn epibarynetai perissotero o Ellhnas poliths einai h genikh mas prospaqeia. Qa diafwnhsw me ayto poy eipate oti synexizoyme sth logikh ayth. Oyte sth logikh ayth synexizoyme oyte sth logikh olwn twn forwn. Afairesame h den afairesame to LAFKA; Meiwqhkan h oxi oi forologikoi syntelestes; Xqes den kaname oloklhrh syzhthsh edw s` ayth thn aiqoysa kai milhsame diejodika gia toys forologikoys syntelestes;

XIWTHS: Gia tis epixeirhseis syzhthsame;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma oi epixeirhseis einai aytes poy parexoyn qeseis ergasias kai idiaitera oi mikromesaies epixeirhseis einai aytes poy wfelhqhkan sthn pleiochfia toys. Prohgoymenws sas diabasa stoixeia poy apedeiknyan oti h forologia stis mikromesaies epixeirhseis ayjhqhke apo to 1995 kai enteyqen kata 70%. Kai hrqe h kybernhsh mas kai th meiwse apo to 35% sto 25%. Kai eseis lete oti synexizoyme ayto poy ekane to PASOK;

Sas eyxaristw.

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