Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-03-18

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 18 Martioy 2005

APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

En prwtois na kalwsorisoyme toys foithtes toy Panteioy Panepisthmioy, oi opoioi me ton kaqhghth toys, dhmosiografo k. Mpakoynakh, briskontai shmera edw gia na parakoloyqhsoyn thn enhmerwsh toy Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy. Toys kalwsorizw kai eyxomai -efoson qeloyn na akoloyqhsoyn to dromo ths dhmosiografias kai to exoyn skeftei poly kala- na exoyn kaqe epityxia kai mia dynamikh poreia, se ena dynamiko, oytws h allws, epaggelma.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mhpws aisqaneste thn anagkh na kanete kapoia dhlwsh apo monos sas, prokeimenoy na diaskedasete ta osa exoyn eipwqei to teleytaio diasthma apo ton k. Antwnaro, apo esas, apo ton k. Paylopoylo, apo alla kybernhtika stelexh gia ton peribohto basiko metoxo; Aisqaneste ayth thn anagkh na balete ta pragmata sthn pragmatikh toys bash;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H politikh, opws gnwrizete, emperiexei kai to synaisqhma, alla ayto to opoio epikratei einai h politikh.

BLAXOS: Den milaw gia synaisqhma, milaw gia thn yperaspish ths alhqeias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anaferetai se draseis, apoceis, idees. H erwthsh ``ean aisqanetai kaneis thn anagkh'' parapempei se synaisqhmata. Ayth h kybernhsh, loipon, poly hrema kai poly syneta epi seiran etwn, apo thn epoxh, dhladh poy htan komma ths antipoliteyshs eixe hdh milhsei gia to qema ths diafaneias kai ths anagkhs na yparjoyn kanones diafaneias ston topo, etsi wste na pataxqei h diafqora kai h diaplokh. O agwnas kata ths diaplokhs kai yper ths diafaneias einai enas agwnas ton opoion yioqethsan ola ta stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Ton yioqetei, epishs, akomh kai shmera h syntriptikh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, opws gnwrizete kai gnwrizoyme. Qelw na sas qymisw oti, xqes, o epikefalhs ths pagkosmias organwshs gia th diafaneia, milwntas sto Londino, anaferqhke me poly qetika logia stis prospaqeies poy exei kanei h xwra mas, ton teleytaio xrono, sthn kateyqynsh na dhmioyrghqoyn oi synqhkes, me nomoqethmata, yper ths diafaneias kai kata ths diafqoras. Ayta ta mhnymata einai enqarryntika, opws eipe kai o idios. Einai enqarryntika, opws yposthrizei kai h kybernhsh. H kybernhsh qa synexisei na dinei ayton ton agwna ews otoy epiteyxqei to poqhto apotelesma, dhladh, toylaxiston, na kineitai kai h xwra mas sto meso oro twn koinotikwn xwrwn.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pws syndyazetai omws ayto me ayto poy eipe o Prwqypoyrgos kai poy telika einai h alhqeia, oti telika paragrafontai oi politikes eyqynes gia to mega skandalo toy Xrhmatisthrioy, gia to opoio o k. Karamanlhs otan htan arxhgos ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs, eipe oti me tipote den paragrafetai, me tipote den jexnietai; Dhladh, einai diaforetikes oi politikes eyqynes twn stelexwn poy exoyn kybernhsei ayton ton topo, apo tis eyqynes epixeirhmatiwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To skandalo toy Xrhmatisthrioy den jexnietai kai den paragrafetai. Yparxoyn nomoi toys opoioys akoloyqei kaqe poliths, nomoi toys opoioys ofeiloyme na sebastoyme. Gnwrizete oti h Dikaiosynh exei proxwrhsei se baqos thn ereyna ths. Epishs, gnwrizete oti hdh to qema parapemfqhke sth Boylh. H Boylh qa labei tis apofaseis poy prepei.

TSIODRAS: Qelw na rwthsw se sxesh me to basiko metoxo: Ean h kybernhsh meta apo tis teleytaies ejelijeis kai meta apo th syzhthsh poy ekane o k. Karamanlhs me ton k. Mparozo, skopeyei na kanei allages sto nomo gia to basiko metoxo, prokeimenoy na enarmonistei me to koinotiko dikaio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Phgainoyme na diapragmateytoyme yper toy eqnikoy symferontos kai yper toy Syntagmatos mas. Kai otan pas na diapragmateyteis, den kaneis, prohgoymenws, kanenos eidoys tetoia syzhthsh.

TSIODRAS: An apo th diapragmateysh, wstoso, prokycei oti xreiazetai na ginoyn kapoies tropopoihseis@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Perimenete na sas apanthsw se erwthsh me ``ean''; Sas epanalambanw oti phgainoyme na diapragmateytoyme gia mia ypoqesh poy exei na kanei me to politiko aitoymeno twn kairwn sthn Ellada, dhladh th diafaneia.

SIDERHS: Sthn ayqormhth dhlwsh poy ypotiqetai oti htan ayqormhth, afoy thn ekmaieyse o k. Blaxos, eipate gia thn proqesh sas na katapolemhsete th diaplokh. To qema den gennatai gia thn proqesh sas. Gennatai gia tis anekdihghtes meqodeyseis kai dh toy k. Paylopoyloy poy einai h nomikh ayqentia ths kybernhshs kai o opoios, sto Zappeio, mas diabebaiwne gia to kata poso to ellhniko Syntagma yperexei toy eyrwpaikoy, twn eyrwpaikwn kanonwn. Ayto einai to problhma, oxi h proqesh sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa apanthsw sthn erwthsh sas, ean aposyrete to xarakthrismo ``anekdihghto'', ton opoio den apodexomai gia kanena synadelfo moy.

SIDERHS: Entajei, qa ton aposyrw gia na synexistei h koybenta. Pantws, den htan prosblhtikos se proswpo, htan politikos o xarakthrismos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan prosblhtikos.

SIDERHS: Den htan. Den einai proqesh moy na prosbalw proswpa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Diafwnoyme sthn ermhneia twn ellhnikwn. Epi ths oysias toy erwthmatos sas: Ejagate kapoia symperasmata, ta opoia einai ayqaireta. H kybernhsh, opws kai h prohgoymenh kybernhsh, se epistolografia ths me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, oxi mia, alla perissoteres fores, anefere oti ayto poy h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh qewrei ws problhmatiko shmeio sthn ypoqesh einai h paragrafos 9 toy arqroy 14 toy Syntagmatos poy chfisan sth Boylh twn Ellhnwn ta dyo megala kommata. H ypoqesh, loipon, opws katalabainete, den exei na kanei me ton alfa h bhta nomo. Qelw na sas qymisw oti kai o n. 3021 poy eixe ferei h kybernhsh toy PASOK -enas nomos o opoios eixe polla ``paraqyra'' gia na jefygei apo ta aysthra plaisia poy eqete to Syntagma- akomh kai aytos o nomos me ta polla ``paraqyra'' htan antikeimeno syzhthshs, me aformh to Syntagma, metajy Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs kai ellhnikhs kybernhshs. Ara, loipon, to zhthma den einai oyte o n. 3021, oyte o n. 3310. Mporei na exei labei poly megalyterh dhmosiothta o n. 3310, akribws giati ayth h kybernhsh eixe kai synexizei na exei thn proqesh, th diaqesh kai thn politikh boylhsh na katapolemhsei th diafqora kai na leitoyrghsei yper ths diafaneias. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti h basikh epixeirhmatologia ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs einai yper h kata kapoioy nomoy kai oxi oysiastika epi toy Syntagmatos kai toy sygkekrimenoy arqroy.

SIDERHS: An moy epitrepete, oi megales antirrhseis hgerqhsan me to nomo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeite sth dhmosia eikona, sth dhmosiothta, sta MME@

SIDERHS: Oxi kai sth drash twn Eyrwpaiwn Epitropwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeite oti ta MME arxisan na endiaferontai gia to qema apo th stigmh poy h Nea Dhmokratia efere aytes tis aysthres, kata koinh omologia, ryqmiseis wste na antimetwpisei problhmata, ta opoia @qa sas qymisw- einai ekeina poy se allh periptwsh syzhtei h Komision. Jexasame oti h Komision syzhtei gia ton tropo anaqeshs dhmosiwn symbasewn; Jexasame oti prokeitai gia mia syzhthsh poy arxise prin apo poly kairo, dhladh gia to pws anateqhkan dhmosia erga, gia problhmata poy yphrxan sto maqhmatiko typo; Einai, loipon, zhthmata ta opoia den anefyhsan jafnika. Einai qemata poy yparxoyn edw kai para poly kairo. Kai bebaiws o rolos moy edw den einai na erwtw, einai na apantw. Epitrecte moy, omws, na kanw mia ejairesh: Erwtw, loipon, pws einai dynaton ena qema poy brisketai se diaboyleysh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, epi dyo kai pleon eth, dhladh apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, na ginetai qema, monomeroys, kritikhs ths shmerinhs kybernhshs, anti kapoios na anarwtietai, giati den eixe symbei mexri twra.

SIDERHS: Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti me thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh htan anixneytikes oi epistoles. H prohgoymenh kybernhsh rwtoyse ``mhpws einai asymbato''; Eseis edw, me ayqentia kai me apofasistikothta eipate oti yperexei to Syntagma. Htan diaforetikh h poiothta kai h stoxeysh ths allhlografias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. Bebaiws, antilambanomai to laqos sas, giati h prohgoymenh kybernhsh den eixe dwsei sth dhmosiothta tis epistoles. Htan safhs h anafora ths Komision sto 14.9. Htan epishs safes oti h prohgoymenh kybernhsh, dia ths tote Grammatews toy Ypoyrgeioy Typoy k. Sphliwpoyloy, eixe apanthsei, yperaspizomenh kai to 3021 kai to 14.9. To erwthma, loipon, poy eqesa prohgoymenws, einai: ``Poy einai shmera to PASOK gia na yperaspistei to 14.9 kai to Syntagma poy ayto eishgage sth Boylh twn Ellhnwn''.

GKOYTZANHS: Den qelw na apologhqw gia to PASOK, opote den qa sas apanthsw. Yparxei bebaia apanthsh, alla as th dwsei to PASOK. Emena moy dhmioyrgeitai h ejhs entypwsh, oti h kybernhsh dinei th maxh ths diaplokhs kai th maxh kata ths diafqoras kai exei antipalo se ayto thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, h opoia ths dhmioyrgei empodia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mia syzhthsh, mia diaboyleysh den shmainei oti ginetai panta metajy antipalwn. Anhkoyme sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh 25 eth pleon. Syzhtoyme, apodexomaste toys kanones ths, opws kai h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh sebetai ta eqnika Syntagmata. Edw tiqetai ena meizon qema poy afora to diko mas Syntagma kai h diaboyleysh synexizetai. Arxise pro dietias kai synexizetai.

GKOYTZANHS: Otan eipa antipalo, ennooysa oti briskete empodia se ayth thn prospaqeia sas kata ths diaplokhs kai ths diafqoras apo ta armodia eyrwpaika organa, an qelete na aposyrw th lejh ``antipalos''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H prospaqeia exei apotelesmata otan yparxei politikh boylhsh. Kai ayth h kybernhsh exei politikh boylhsh.

GKOYTZANHS: An moy epitrepete, epeidh anoijate mia nomikh koybenta, qa sas elega oti ta arqra toy Syntagmatos den efarmozontai apo mona toys. Pantote yparxoyn ektelestikoi nomoi toy Syntagmatos. Ena shmeio sto opoio diafwnoyn ta eyrwpaika organa kai poy einai h onomastikopoihsh twn metoxwn, den problepetai apo to arqro toy Syntagmatos, opws epishs den problepetai apo to arqro toy Syntagmatos h mh anagnwrish ths aytoteleias twn syggenikwn proswpwn. Ayta einai dikes sas apofaseis me ton ektelestiko nomo. Den einai toy Syntagmatos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas elega, ti proteinete: Na kanoyme pws den katalabame oti yparxei ena Syntagma; To chfisame kai to afhnoyme na koimatai, otan to Syntagma epibalei th dhmioyrgia enos ektelestikoy nomoy se mia eynomoymenh politeia, se mia dhmokratia, opoy o katastatikos xarths einai aytos poy orizei th zwh twn politwn, orizei to Politeyma; Qa kanoyn ta dyo megala kommata, poy chfisan to sygkekrimeno arqro kai to sygkekrimeno Syntagma, oti den katalaban;

GKOYTZANHS: Pantws, an me rwthsete, mporw na sas apanthsw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai rhtoriko to erwthma.

GKOYTZANHS: Qa prepei na labete ypoch sas kai toys koinotikoys kanones, etsi wste na ferete ena nomo poy na mhn exei problhmata gia na mporesei na efarmostei. Gia na exei apotelesmatikothta, dhladh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete parei, hdh, apanthsh, me aformh tis epistoles poy exoyn antallagei metajy Komision kai ellhnikwn kybernhsewn.

KYRITSHS: Exw na kanw dyo synafhs erwthseis. H mia einai ean protiqeste na jekinhsete th diadikasia se epipedo dialogoy gia anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos, se o,ti afora to 14.9. To deytero einai, an qa synexisei na efarmozetai o nomos gia to basiko metoxo ws exei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, h Boylh twn Ellhnwn chfise ena nomo kai o nomos efarmozetai. Exei ena metabatiko stadio, prokeimenoy na proboyn stis aparaithtes energeies oi etaireies, ta fysika proswpa, poy ypokeintai stis probleceis aytoy toy nomoy. To metabatiko ayto stadio diarkei ews ton Ioynio.

Oson afora sto prwto erwthma poy qesate gia to Syntagma, qa sas parapemcw sthn apanthsh poy edwse o Prwqypoyrgos, prin apo liges hmeres, otan toy teqhke to idio akribws erwthma. Einai synolika zhthma anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos kai oxi memonwmena kapoiwn arqrwn.

RABANOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh anaferqhke to onoma toy k. Paylopoyloy, qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean yparxei diastash apocewn metajy esas kai toy Ypoyrgoy Eswterikwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizw oti kapoioi qa hqelan na anakalycoyn diastaseis apocewn kai rhgmata sthn kybernhsh. Den yparxoyn. As mhn caxnoyn gia fantasmata. Den qa ta broyn.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, akoysame na lete oti den exete antipalo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Omws, na pame ligo sthn tampakiera. Th Deytera , o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn kai armodios mazi me sas kai ton k. Fwlia, qa briskeste stis Bryjelles. Peite mas, loipon, yparxei politikh boylhsh, ti qa zhthsete, exei allajei kati kai pws akribws qa katebei o k. Paylopoylos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tipote perissotero kai tipote ligotero apo ta osa sas exw pei mexri twra. Th Deytera to prwi, qa ginei mia synanthsh metajy empeirognwmonwn ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai ths Komision. Sth synexeia qa pragmatopoihqei synanthsh toy armodioy Epitropoy k. Mak Kribi me ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn k. Paylopoylo.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean protiqetai h kybernhsh na parateinei to xrono toy metabatikoy stadioy efarmoghs toy nomoy gia to basiko metoxo@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Empiptei sthn idia erwthsh poy egine prohgoymenws me to ``ean''. Exw apanthsei se ayto.

SPYRAKH: Rwtw, ean protiqeste na parateinete to xrono metabashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa. Prin apo th diapragmateysh den syzhta kaneis tetoia pragmata.

SPYRAKH: Pws sxoliazei h kybernhsh thn epiqesh poy ejapelyse o Patriarxhs Ierosolymwn Eirhnaios sthn Ypoyrgo Paideias, epeidh pareleice na ton episkefqei enw briskotan sta Ierosolyma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, exei kanei apo xqes sxetikh anakoinwsh kai h Ypoyrgos Paideias k. Giannakoy. Qa hqela na symplhrwsw oti h kybernhsh, molis anekyce to gnwsto qema me to Patriarxeio Ierosolymwn, espeyse na steilei sta Ierosolyma ton armodio Yfypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Skandalakh. O k. Skandalakhs, ws epishmos apestalmenos ths kybernhshs, dhlwse th symparastash ths kybernhshs sta problhmata kai thn anagkh na epilyqoyn me th bohqeia mas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, prohgoymenws eipate oti to skandalo toy Xrhmatisthrioy den paragrafetai. Oi politikes eyqynes den exoyn paragrafei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn nomoi poy problepoyn tis politikes eyqynes se politika proswpa. Epeidh exoyn mesolabhsei, hdh apo tote, dyo Koinoboylia, opws gnwrizete, den mporoyn na askhqoyn kapoies diwjeis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Opote mono oi idiwtes einai ypeyqynoi gia kaqe skandalo poy ginetai kai oxi oi politikoi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den milame gia idiwtes. Milame gia proswpa poy meteixan sth xeiragwghsh, mesa apo kapoies etaireies.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oi opoioi, oi perissoteroi htan ypoyrgoi, mexri kai prwqypoyrgoi xeiragwgoysan tote to Xrhmatisthrio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H politikh krish poy exei kanei ayth h kybernhsh -kai thn opoia exei kanei kai h pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn- gia to Xrhmatisthrio einai mia safhs politikh krish apodokimasias ekeinwn twn meqodwn.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ayth th stigmh h grammh amynas ths kybernhshs th Deytera, einai h yperaspish toy Syntagmatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh den niwqei oti amynetai se kati. H kybernhsh epitiqetai apenanti se symferonta, ta opoia prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn empodia sto dromo pros th diafaneia.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Pws sxoliazete tis dhlwseis toy boyleyth k. Gewrgiadh poy eipe oti o nomos einai ``mia trypa sto nero'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa tis sxoliasw.

KAKALHS: Meta th synanthsh poy eixe h trimelhs Ypoyrgikh Epitroph stis Bryjelles, an qymaste, mas eixate diabebaiwsei oti den yparxoyn anapanthta erwthmata kai eixate ekpemcei thn eikona oti h kybernhsh eixe ``kaqarisei'' me thn Komision kai tis Bryjelles. Ti allaje apo tote mexri twra kai h kybernhsh sernetai oysiastika stis Bryjelles kai apologeitai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den apodexomai ton oro ``apologia''. Prokeitai gia mia syzhthsh, mia diapragmateysh. Isxyei ayto poy sas eixa pei kai tote. Rwteiste, an qelete, toys armodioys ypallhloys ths Komision na sas apanthsoyn.

KAKALHS: An pragmatika h boylhsh ths kybernhshs einai na yperaspistei to Syntagma, giati den dhlwnei eyqews oti to Syntagma yperexei toy Koinotikoy Dikaioy, akomh kai toy Eyrwsyntagmatos typika kai sth bash ayth oti askei ta kyriarxika ths dikaiwmata poy aforoyn sth leitoyrgia toy dhmokratikoy mas Politeymatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na eiste bebaios oti h kybernhsh exei eparkh politikh kai nomikh epixeirhmatologia yper toy Syntagmatos stis syzhthseis poy kanei me thn Komision.

KAKALHS: Sto paraskhnio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti paei na pei sto ``paraskhnio'';

KAKALHS: San politikh diakhryjh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi syzhthseis ginontai mesa se koinotika grafeia. Kaloyme kai to PASOK, to opoio eishgage, yposthrije, chfise, to sygkekrimeno arqro toy Syntagmatos na kanei to idio. Dhladh na to yperaspistei, opws to yperaspizomaste emeis kai opws den to yperaspisthke, ws ofeile, ton ena xrono poy eixe hdh arxisei allhlografia me thn Komision.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Epeidh h synanthsh toy k. Karamanlh me ton k. Erntogan stis Bryjelles paroysiazei entono endiaferon, qelw na mas peite, an mporeite, poia einai h atzenta aytwn twn synomiliwn, ti qa symperilabei, oson afora sto Kypriako, qa anaferqei mono sthn energopoihsh toy prwtokolloy ths Agkyras o k. Karamanlhs h qa qesei kai to genikotero qema ths Kyproy. Epishs, kai ena deytero erwthma, pws antimetwpizei h ellhnikh kybernhsh thn protash toy k. Mparozo gia trimerh synanthsh sto Kypriako, Toyrkias-Kyproy kai Toyrkokypriwn kai den bazei mesa kaqoloy thn Ellada.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi protaseis gia epilysh toy Kypriakoy exoyn diatypwqei pleistakis apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. Einai koines me tis protaseis poy exoyn diatypwqei kai apo ton Proedro ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias k. Papadopoylo. Den exw na prosqesw tipota perissotero.

Gia th synanthsh ths Deyteras: Prokeitai gia mia synanthsh sthn opoia qa syzhthqoyn dimerws ta qemata poy exoyn megalo endiaferon kai gia tis dyo xwres. Qa sas doqoyn analytikes anakoinwseis, meta to peras ths synanthshs. Qa syzhthqoyn ola ta qemata poy apasxoloyn tis dyo xwres.

POYLIDOY: Hqela na rwthsw, ean h ellhnikh kybernhsh htan enhmerh ths prwtoboylias toy Proedroy Papadopoyloy na zhthsei apo to G.G. toy OHE anakinhsh mias diadikasias synomiliwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei diarkhs allhloenhmerwsh.

POYLIDOY: Ara, hsastan enhmeroi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

POYLIDOY: Symfwneite kai me ton oro poy exei qesei, na mhn yparxei epi- diaithsia ayth th fora;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa ypeiselqw se kanena peraiterw sxolio gia to pws prepei na ginei h opoia nea diadikasia.

POYLIDOY: Den katalaba akribws pws apanthsate ston k. Kwnstantinidh gia thn protash Mparozo gia thn trimerh synanthsh. Eisaste kata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei topoqethqei gia to pws blepei thn epilysh toy kypriakoy problhmatos, mesw poiwn organismwn kai poiwn diadikasiwn.

POYLIDOY: Ara, eiste kata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati qelete na bgazw egw ta symperasmata;

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ayto legetai ``stribein dia toy arrabwnos''. H apanthsh sas einai@

ROYSOPOYLOS: H apanthsh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs einai ayth poy sas edwsa. H praktikh exei apodeijei poia einai h qesh poy exei h ellhnikh kybernhsh. Den qewrw, loipon, skopimo na taxqw yper toy enos h kata toy alloy h kata ths allhs protashs, opoia ki an einai ayth. H sygkekrimenh logikh poy diepei thn proseggish epilyshs toy kypriakoy problhmatos exei analyqei pleistakis kai apo ton Prwqypoyrgo kai apo ton Proedro ths Kyproy kai se koines paroysies kai synenteyjeis toys, se stigmes dyskoles h ligotero dyskoles, sthn poreia ths epilyshs toy kypriakoy problhmatos.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Einai dynaton pote h Ellada na anexqei trimerh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei hdh. Exei shmasia poy kai pote epilegei kai an epilegei kaneis na apanthsei.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Epeidh tis teleytaies hmeres meta tis dhlwseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy, meta th synanthsh toy me ton k. Mparozo, opoy anaferqhke kai sta ellhnotoyrkika, grafetai synexws oti esteile kai ena mhnyma pros ton Kyprio Proedro. Ayto afhnei polla yponooymena. Ti shmainei esteile mhnyma kai ston Kyprio Proedro;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den katalabainw thn erwthsh sas.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: O k. Karamanlhs ekane dhlwseis kai esteile ena mhnyma pros thn Toyrkia na anagnwrisei thn Kypriakh Dhmokratia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto egracan kapoioi dhmosiografoi.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Grafetai kata koron.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den prokeitai na sxoliasw diafora dhmosieymata poy emfanizontai kaqhmerina kai ta opoia einai makran ths pragmatikothtas.

PEPONHS: Efoson ton perasmeno Dekembrio, an qymomaste kala, eixate labei mia epistolh apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh poy xarakthrize ton 3021 asymbato me to koinotiko dikaio. Einai o nomos poy eixe chfistei apo to PASOK. Giati eseis proxwrhsate @ kai o nomos aytos opws jeroyme htan pio xalaros @ sthn chfish enos aysthroteroy nomoy, afoy gnwrizate oti qa exei problhmata me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws sas eipa kai prohgoymenws, h epistolh anaferotan stis epifylajeis ths Komision ston 3021 alla kyriws sto ar. 14, par. 9 toy Syntagmatos. Exoyme ena Syntagma, to opoio ofeiloyme na sebastoyme. Peran dhladh, twn desmeysewn ayths ths kybernhshs gia tis diadikasies diafaneias, yparxei to Syntagma sth xwra to opoio ofeiloyn na sebastoyn oles oi politikes dynameis.

PEPONHS: Kai to sebeste me to nomo poy chfisate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apolytws.

SIDERHS: Oi epixeirhmaties k. Mytilhnaios kai Germanos einai skiwdeis Ypoyrgoi ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai giati ginetai ayth h erwthsh. H kybernhsh den exei anagkh apo skiwdeis Ypoyrgoys, Yfypoyrgoys h alloys skiwdeis. H kybernhsh den exei epitrecei se kanenan na pisteyei oti yparxei opoiosdhpote poy thn ypokaqista. Ayta rwthste ta se ekproswpo alloy kommatos poy den einai shmera kybernhsh.

SIDERHS: Symmeteixan se mia diypoyrgikh thn perasmenh Paraskeyh me qema thn amyntikh biomhxania kai h symmetoxh toys emeine sth skia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An yparxei kapoio sygkekrimeno erwthma, parakalw apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn gia na parete apanthsh. To sxolio poy kanate to qewrw aparadekto.

TSIODRAS: Lete gia thn yperaspish toy Syntagmatos kai gia ton ektelestiko nomo o opoios einai kat` epitagh toy sygkekrimenoy arqroy 14, par. 9. Giati prepei kat` anagkh o sygkekrimenos nomos na einai h monadikh lysh h opoia einai symfwnh me to sygkekrimeno edafio toy Syntagmatos. Qa mporoysan na yparxoyn para polles diaforetikes ryqmiseis oi opoies na einai kai symbates me to Syntagma kai na mhn yparxoyn ayta ta problhmata me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Giati einai monodromos kai panakeia o sygkekrimenos nomos o opoios katateqhke;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh kateqese sth Boylh to sygkekrimeno nomo kai h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh epeleje na mhn kataqesei oyte mia epoikodomhtikh protash. To KKE kai o SYNASPISMOS kateqesan protaseis oi opoies sthn pleiochfia toys eginan apodektes. To apotelesma twn protasewn ths kybernhshs kai twn protasewn twn dyo kommatwn ths aristeras apotelei pleon nomo.

TSIODRAS: Ara apodexetai kai thn politikh eyqynh h kybernhsh kai den einai swsto na to rixnei sto Syntagma. Akribws ayto poy eipate twra, oti: ayto to nomo kataqesame@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas exei dwsei kapoios apo thn kybernhsh thn entypwsh oti den apodexetai thn politikh eyqynh twn prajewn toy;

TSIODRAS: Me kalyptei h apanthsh. Alla mexri shmera yperaspizate to nomo san na einai mono ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas dinw mia peraiterw plhroforia kai elpizw na ginei ajiopoihsh ths. H plhroforia leei oti edw kai dyo xronia yphrxe mia epistolografia me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh gia to Syntagma kai to arqro 14.9. Ayto to opoio proballetai pleistakis to teleytaio diasthma, sthn pleiochfia twn Meswn Mazikhs Enhmerwshs, einai oti olh h istoria jekinhse dioti dhqen ayth h kybernhsh efere ena nomo poy einai antikoinotikos. Yparxei loipon h alhqeia kai h merikh alhqeia. Oloklhrh h alhqeia leei oti h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh edw kai dyo xronia exei probalei antirrhseis gia to Syntagma. Kai h kybernhsh rwta to komma ekeino to opoio mazi me th Nea Dhmokratia chfise ayto to Syntagma. Na mhn thrhsoyme to Syntagma; Na mhn to akoloyqhsoyme; Na mhn to yperaspistoyme; Ayta ta erwthmata einai apla, apeyqynontai sto PASOK, to opoio eishgage tis protaseis toy gia to Syntagma. Perimenoyme thn apanthsh toy. H merikh alhqeia einai o 3021 h o 3310. Oloklhrh h alhqeia einai ayth poy sas anefera.

TSIODRAS: Den qa yperaspistw to PASOK. Alla qa sas elege kapoios, na thrhsete to Syntagma me allo nomo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti to PASOK den exei na mas pei tipota. Rwthsame polles fores sth Boylh an exei kapoia protash. H protash htan h siwph.

GKOYTZANHS: Den yparxei mono to PASOK s` ayth th xwra kyrie Ekproswpe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi protaseis toy KKE kai toy SYNASPISMOY katateqhkan sth Boylh kai eginan sth megalh toys pleiochfia apodektes.

BLAXOS: Einai profanes oti o Prwqypoyrgos breqhke se dyskolh qesh sth synanthsh toy me ton k. Mparozo. Einai profanes kai to katalabainete, apodexeste tis politikes eyqynes kai to oti h kybernhsh brisketai se mia dyskolh qesh. Kai rwtw, o Prwqypoyrgos exei anazhthsei eyqynes metajy twn symboylwn toy, an ton prostatecan ws ofeilan h qewrei oti kapoioi den ekanan kala th doyleia toys kai ton ejeqesan;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti se dyskolh qesh exoyn breqei kapoia symferonta ta opoia qigontai kai apo to Syntagma kai apo to nomo kai oxi h kybernhsh poy apofasise na dwsei me diafanh tropo mia nea politikh diastash sta pragmata opws prepei na ginontai ston topo mas. H kybernhsh einai se eykolh qesh gia na yperaspistei toys kanones ths diafaneias. Malista h syntriptikh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn - exei katagrafei panw apo to 85% - einai yper twn prospaqeiwn poy kanei ayth h kybernhsh gia na patajei th diafqora kai na qesei kanones yper ths diafaneias.

BLAXOS: Ayto einai ypekfygh pantws. Egw rwthsa an o Prwqypoyrgos epirriptei eyqynes se symboyloys toy oti den eftiajan ta pragmata opws eprepe oytw wste na mhn brisketai sthn anagkh na apologeitai kai o idios kai h kybernhsh kai h xwra sta organa ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai kaqara dikes sas ekfraseis ta peri apologias ths xwras. Den isxyoyn sthn pragmatikothta.

BLAXOS: Nai alla den apantate sto erwthma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Profanws den exete parakoloyqhsei thn epi mish wra syzhthsh. An thn eixate parakoloyqhsei pisteyw oti den qa moy kanate ayth thn erwthsh.

BLAXOS: Pali janafeygete apo thn apanthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei.

GKOYTZANHS: Sto qema toy Xrhmatisthrioy. Qymomaste oloi oti h frash toy Prwqypoyrgoy proeklogika htan oti ta egklhmata enantion toy laoy kai toy topoy den diagrafontai oyte paragrafontai. Ypoqetw oti qa eixe ypoch toy proeklogika tis xronikes proqesmies. H erwthsh einai giati meta tis ekloges, otan den eixan paragrafei akoma ta adikhmata twn politikwn proswpwn @ gia thn politikh eyqynh apodoqhke stis ekloges @ giati den proxwrhse mia allh diadikasia, gia paradeigma, mia ejetastikh epitroph sth Boylh etsi wste na mhn ekpneysoyn oi proqesmies kai na mhn paragrafei. Ayth h proanakritikh gia ta ejoplistika ti ginetai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora to deytero erwthma sas exw hdh apanthsei. Den yparxei kati kainoyrio na sas pw. Oson afora to prwto : Kanete kapoio laqos se sxesh me th nomikh gnwsh twn qematwn. Qa sas symboyleya na to syzhthsete me kapoion poy gnwrizei nomika. Qa diapistwsete oti den einai etsi ta pragmata.

GKOYTZANHS: Den eixe dhladh tetoia dynatothta h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa hdh.

GARGALAKOS: Den exw katalabei kati, me olh ayth th syllogistikh peri Syntagmatos kai nomoy gia to basiko metoxo. An ayrio, para tis prosdokies sas, anagkasteite na kanete mia allagh sto nomo. Anagkasteite na ferete enan allo nomo poy na einai symbatos me th boylhsh ths koinothtas. Ayto qa shmainei oti h kybernhsh katastrathgei to Syntagma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Profanws den egine safes ayto poy eipa. Eipa oti oi megales antirrhseis apo thn pleyra ths Komision jekinhsan gia to ar. 14, par. 9 toy Syntagmatos. Gnwrizete poly kala pws einai h diadikasia anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos sth xwra mas. Anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos den problepetai prin apo to 2008, akoma kai prin apo to 2006. Ara loipon den katalabainw poio einai to erwthma sas. Sas eipa oti o prohgoymenos nomos poy eixe polla ``paraqyra'', kai ta opoia kataggeilame, htan epishs antikeimeno syzhthshs me thn Komision.

GARGALAKOS: Ennow oti qa mporoysate na ferete ena nomo poy na einai symbatos me to koinotiko dikaio, mesa sta plaisia ermhneias toy Syntagmatos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete hdh parei apofash oti den einai symbatos, enw eimaste se mia diadikasia syzhthshs kai diapragmateysewn. Ara den mporw na apodextw ayto poy lete. Qa doyme ti qa ginei sth syzhthsh ths Deyteras. Sas epanalambanw oti h megalh h mikrh diafwnia, o problhmatismos, jekinaei me aformh to nomo toy PASOK 3021. Alla sthn oysia me to Syntagma kai ayto poy problepetai apo to Syntagma poy problepei aysthres diatajeis gia thn ypoqesh ths patajhs ths diaplokhs ston sygkekrimeno tomea, Mesa Enhmerwshs kai dhmosies symbaseis. Kai aytes oi aysthres diatajeis einai ekeines poy chfisthkan kai apo ta dyo megala kommata sth Boylh. Ara loipon o politikos problhmatismos prepei na paei pisw kai na anazhthsei th syzhthsh poy egine gia to 14.9. Na anarwthqei an prepei na allajei to 14. 9. Ayto den to leei h kybernhsh, gia na eimai safhs. H kybernhsh den exei anoijei qema anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos. Exei apanthsei o Prwqypoyrgos. O problhmatismos metajy Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai xwras @ meloys, einai problhmatismos poy anagetai sto Syntagma. Antistoixoi problhmatismoi exoyn diatypwqei kai alles fores sto parelqon kai me alles xwres. Qa doyme poia qa einai h katalhjh.

KAKALHS: Den katalaba an epibebaiwnetai thn paroysia twn dyo epixeirhmatiwn sthn ypoyrgikh syskech gia ta ejoplistika programmata kai pws th dikaiologeite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa prohgoymenws - kai qewrhsa oti egine katanohto - oti mporeite na apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio gia na parete apanthsh. Den gnwrizw to qema.

TSIODRAS: Eixe anakoinwsei o k. Antwnaros oti o Prwqypoyrgos den empleketai sth diadikasia gia to basiko metoxo sth diarkeia ths synanthshs me ton k. Mparozo. Anakoinwse, epishs, proxqes ta tria shmeia sta opoia qa ginei h syzhthsh anamesa ston Proedro ths Komision kai ton Ellhna Prwqypoyrgo. Telikws, prokyptei oti para tis kybernhtikes diaceyseis h diabebaiwseis, peite to opws qelete, to qema syzhthqhke. Ti allaje kai mphke sthn atzenta, enw den htan h ypotiqetai oti den htan;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, se aytes tis synanthseis yparxei mia atzenta qematwn. H atzenta, loipon, den proeblepe th syzhthsh aytoy toy qematos. Eteqh gia poly ligo sth syzhthsh. H katalhjh htan oti thn epomenh ebdomada o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs qa syzhthsei. O Prwqypoyrgos den mphke se syzhthsh, oyte se diapragmateysh poly perissotero, gia to basiko metoxo. Den katalaba, loipon, ki egw me th seira moy poy yparxei antifash.

TSIODRAS: Sto o,ti den empleketai o Prwqypoyrgos kai profanws o Prwqypoyrgos to eqese.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma den empleketai. Giati prospaqeite na emplejete ena qema, to opoio den einai etsi opws to lete, opws to pisteyete; Den katalabainw to giati, otan h kybernhsh sas anakoinwnei poia einai h atzenta. Gia paradeigma shmera me rwthsate ti qa syzhthsoyn metajy toys oi Prwqypoyrgoi Elladas kai Toyrkias. Den sas eipa dyo qemata gia na erqete meta kai na moy peite giati den mas eipate kai to trito. Sas eipa: Genikws qa syzhthsoyn ta qemata poy aforoyn tis dyo xwres. Ayto sth dieqnh diplwmatia onomazetai ``anoixth atzenta''. Toylaxiston etsi to gnwrizw egw. Oi synadelfoi sas, fantazomai, mporoyn na to epibebaiwsoyn. Sth syzhthsh, loipon, me ton Proedro ths Epitrophs yphrxan kapoia qemata. Teqhke kai ena epipleon qema. Synhqizetai ayto. Ekeino, omws, poy den antilambanomai einai ti akribws sas enoxlei: To o,ti o Prwqypoyrgos ekane mia anafora sto qema toy basikoy metoxoy; To oti h kybernhsh ayth yperaspizetai to nomo kai to Syntagma; Den katalabainw ti.

TSIODRAS: Oxi, den me enoxlei oti h kybernhsh yperaspizetai to nomo kai to Syntagma. Me enoxlei to ejhs: To gegonos oti syzhteitai epi mia ebdomada oti o Prwqypoyrgos qa syzhthsei me ton Proedro ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs..

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den syzhteitai. To syzhtoyn, endexomenws, kapoioi dhmosiografoi sta thleoptika paraqyra.

TSIODRAS: Ma, den to bgazoyn apo to kefali toys oi dhmosiografoi, k. Ekproswpe. Exoyn plhrofories, kanoyn reportaz.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Diabazw, kata kairoys, diafora dhmosieymata ta opoia dystyxws bgainoyn apo to kefali orismenwn.

TSIODRAS: Wraia. Bgainei, loipon, oti epibebaiwqhkan oi dhmosiografoi sthn prokeimenh periptwsh kai oxi h kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poio epibebaiwnetai;

TSIODRAS: Epibebaiwnetai to gegonos oti qa syzhtiotan kai o basikos metoxos, opws kai egine.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, kanete laqos. Den qa syzhtiotan. Den yphrxe sthn atzenta. Egine, ektos atzentas, mia anafora. Erwtw, loipon, poio einai to problhma;

TSIODRAS: Oti otan h kybernhsh mas dinei mia atzenta prepei kata to dynaton toylaxiston na antapokrinetai sthn pragmatikothta.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H atzenta poy sas doqhke thrhqhke apolytws. Ekeino to opoio den jerw giati den katanoeite -piqanws na mhn to gnwrizete, isxyei pantws se olo ton kosmo gia polla xronia twra- einai oti h atzenta qematwn perikleiei enan ariqmo qematwn pros syzhthsh. Endexomenws na prosteqoyn kai kapoia alla qemata pros syzhthsh. Ayto to exete janakoysei na symbainei dieqnws;

TSIODRAS: Bebaiws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tote, den antilambanomai giati ekplhsseste kai malista me tetoia megalh ekplhjh.

TSIODRAS: Me kamia ekplhjh. Apo thn apanthsh ejeplaghn, oxi apo th diadikasia.

POYLIDOY: Dhladh, me prwtoboylia toy k. Mparozo eteqh to zhthma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa apanthsw se erwthma me poioy prwtoboylia htan h den htan. Qewrw oti exw hdh apanthsei eparkws sto qema. Kai xwris proswpikh aixmh gia kanenan, sas lew as blepoyme to dasos kai oxi to dentro. Kai to dasos en prokeimenw einai poly sygkekrimeno. Yparxoyn kapoioi kanones oi opoioi prospaqoyn na patajoyn th diaplokh se ayton ton topo. Yparxoyn kai kapoies prospaqeies na mh doyme aytoys toys kanones, na mh doyme to ellhniko Syntagma, na mh doyme ton politiko kosmo poy apofasise o,ti apofasise, alla na doyme kapoia dentra ta opoia en telei den exoyn kamia shmasia.

GKOYTZANHS: An moy epitrepete, h kritikh poy askeitai sthn kybernhsh den einai giati prospaqei na antimetwpisei th diaplokh. Einai giati o tropos ton opoion epeleje einai atelesforos kai isa-isa dhmioyrgei kai empodia sthn antimetwpish ths diaplokhs. Gi` ayto krinetai h kybernhsh, oxi gia thn proqesh ths.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na moy perigracete to ``atelesforo'' toy tropoy, gia na to katalabw ki egw;

GKOYTZANHS: Ayto syzhtietai toso kairo. An katalabame kala yparxoyn enstaseis apo thn pleyra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai yparxei mia syzhthsh poy endexomenws na katalhjei se allagh diatajewn aytoy toy nomoy. Apo ayto den bgainei oti yparxei ena atelesforo sthn olh diadikasia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mhpws antilambanomaste diaforetika thn ennoia ths lejhs ``atelesforos''; Ti ennoeite akribws; Dhladh, einai ``atelesforo'' na syzhtei kaneis me thn Koinothta, ws kratos melos ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs;

GKOYTZANHS: To oti qespisate diatajeis oi opoies oxi monon den exoyn efarmostei, giati yparxoyn kai ta metabatika k.tl., alla deixnoyn oti qa allajoyn prin kan efarmostoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na epanalabw, loipon, gia pollosth fora @giati fainetai pws den egine katanohto h safes se oloys toylaxiston- oti h diadikasia jekinhse edw kai dyo xronia. H diadikasia poy jekinhse den anaferqhke sto n. 3021 toy PASOK monon, alla kyriws epikentrwqhke sto Syntagma kai th syntagmatikh problech toy arqroy 14 paragrafos 9. Ayto, loipon, einai ena zhthma to opoio, metajy ellhnikhs kybernhshs PASOK kai ellhnikhs kybernhshs Neas Dhmokratias, syzhteitai epi dyo xronia me thn Koinothta. H diadikasia peran twn epistolwn syzhteitai kai dia zwshs. H opoia loipon antirrhsh, antiparaqesh, antiqesh, problhmatismos yparxei, tiqetai sto trapezi. Kai teqhke kai sth syzhthsh poy egine prin apo liges ebdomades stis Bryjelles. Qa janateqei kai th Deytera. Einai safes twra;

GKOYTZANHS: Safestato einai. An qelete to synoliko politiko erwthma einai giati den symperilabate tis enstaseis ths E.E. ek twn proterwn, afoy h syzhthsh yparxei edw kai dyo xronia@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na kanoyme anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos ennoeite; E, den ginetai. Yparxoyn tropoi poy ginetai h anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos.

BLAXOS: Otan lete oti blepete orismena symferonta poy einai se dyskolh qesh kai enoxloyntai apo tis kinhseis ths kybernhshs, yponoeite dhladh oti oi antidraseis poy erxontai apo tis Bryjelles ejyphretoyn ayta ta symferonta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan lew kati, to lew eyqews. Den yponow tipote perissotero apo ayto poy lew.

BLAXOS: Einai aixmh enantion ths E.E.;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yponow tipota perissotero apo ayto poy lew. An qelete na bgazete dika sas symperasmata, mporeite na to kanete. Einai diko sas dikaiwma.

Sas eyxaristw poly.

Kalo Sabbatokyriako.

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