Greek Government Press Briefing, 04-12-01

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 1 Dekembrioy 2004

APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai kalo mhna.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 9.30 to prwi, qa synanthqei sto Megaro Majimoy me to Dioikhth toy IKA k. Giannh Barqolomaio kai stis 7 to apogeyma qa egkainiasei to neo ktirio toy Moyseioy Mpenakh sthn odo Peiraiws.

Qa sas pw merika pragmata pio analytika gia thn ekqesh ths Eurostat kai qa sas dianemhqei kai keimeno.

Xqes mphke oristika telos kai me ton pio epishmo tropo sthn @eikonikh oikonomia@ thn opoia eixe paroysiasei to PASOK.

H ekqesh ths Eurostat thn opoia o ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. G. Alogoskoyfhs kateqese sth Boylh xqes to apogeyma dinei apanthsh se oloys osoi exoyn enstaseis h endoiasmoys sxetika me thn orqothta alla kai thn anagkaiothta gia thn Dhmosionomikh Apografh, sthn opoia proxwrhse h kybernhsh. Sthn ekqesh ayth loipon, metajy allwn, epishmainontai kai ta akoloyqa:

``H ajiopistia twn ellhnikwn dhmosionomikwn stoixeiwn apotelese antikeimeno idiaiterhs prosoxhs gia thn EUROSTAT sto parelqon. Ta statistika qemata ths Elladas apotelesan antikeimeno syzhthsewn me thn EUROSTAT perissotero apo olwn twn allwn kratwn-melwn ths E.E. Oi sxetikes amfibolies ths EUROSTAT diatypwqhkan polles fores sto parelqon me yposhmeiwseis, idiaitera sxolia kai asteriskoys sta deltia typoy ths''.

``To 2002 egine mia shmantikh anaqewrhsh twn dhmosionomikwn stoixeiwn ths Elladas katopin apaithshs ths Eyrwpaikhs Statistikhs Yphresias. H anaqewrhsh ayth (deltio typoy ths EUROSTAT ths 13hs Noembrioy 2002) odhghse se epideinwsh toy elleimmatos kata 1% toy AEP to 2000, 1,3% to 2001, enw to dhmosio xreos ayjhqhke kata 1,5% kai 1,9% toy AEP antistoixa''.

``Oi basikoi logoi ths anaqewrhshs twn ellhnikwn dhmosionomikwn stoixeiwn gia thn periodo 2000-2003 mporoyn na synocistoyn sta akoloyqa:

@ Elliphs katagrafh twn amyntikwn dapanwn.

@ Yperektimhsh toy pleonasmatos twn asfalistikwn organismwn.

@ Anaqewrhsh pros ta katw twn ektimhsewn gia ta forologika esoda (kyriws apo FPA).

Ayta ta tria stoixeia apo mona toys ermhneyoyn peripoy to 90% twn synolikwn anaqewrhsewn. Eidikotera oi diafores apo thn katagrafh twn amyntikwn dapanwn ermhneyoyn 25% twn synolikwn anaqewrhsewn to 2003, 75% to 2002, 50% to 2001 kai 90% to 2000''.

Amyntikes dapanes

``Symfwna me toys kanones toy ESA95 oi amyntikes dapanes prepei na qewroyntai ws endiamesh katanalwsh kai qa prepei na katagrafontai stis dhmosies dapanes th stigmh ths paradoshs toys anejarthta apo tis plhrwmes poy pragmatopoioyntai se diafora stadia. Wstoso, polles xwres exoyn problhmata me ta stoixeia twn amyntikwn dapanwn toys, kaqws ayta einai empisteytika. Se aytes tis periptwseis, ta stoixeia dinontai se tameiakh bash. Ayto efarmozetai sto Belgio, thn Tsexia, thn Esqonia, Germania, Ellada, Gallia, Irlandia, Oyggaria, Liqoyania, Letonia, Malta, Polwnia, Slobakia, Finlandia kai Megalh Bretania''.

``To stoixeio ayto twn amyntikwn dapanwn htan sthn atzenta twn epafwn metajy EUROSTAT kai ellhnikwn arxwn toylaxiston apo to 1994. Ta stoixeia poy parexontan apo tis ellhnikes arxes htan asyneph kai h plhroforhsh gia ta symbolaia paradoshs amyntikoy ejoplismoy htan antifatikh.

Oi ellhnikes arxes eixan dhlwsei to 1996 oti megalo meros toy stratiwtikoy xreoys htan ypo th morfh makroproqesmwn pistwsewn apo thn pleyra twn promhqeytwn stratiwtikoy ejoplismoy, to opoio sthn poreia apodeixqhke analhqes''.

``To 2002 dhlwqhke anakribws apo tis ellhnikes arxes oti oi prokataboles poy plhrwnontai stoys promhqeytes stratiwtikoy ylikoy antimetwpizontai ws xrhmatooikonomikes synallages kai oti me thn paralabh toy ejoplismoy sthn Ellada, oi statistikes yphresies lambanoyn thn plhroforhsh ayth kai mporoyn na kanoyn tis sxetikes kataxwriseis stoys eqnikoys logariasmoys (ws telikh katanalwsh). H pragmatikothta einai oti h ESYE kai to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn den elaban kamia plhroforhsh gia paralabes stratiwtikoy ylikoy apo to 1997. Etsi oi perissoteres amyntikes dapanes poy xrhmatodothqhkan me daneismo den katagrafhkan ta teleytaia 7 xronia''.

``Synepws, h metabash sthn katagrafh twn dapanwn aytwn se tameiakh bash den ypagoreyqhke apo meqodologikoys logoys - den allajan oi logistikoi kanones - alla apo logoys diaqesimothtas stoixeiwn. Dedomenoy toy aporrhtoy xarakthra twn stoixeiwn gia tis paralabes stratiwtikoy ylikoy sthn Ellada, mono h xrhsh ths tameiakhs bashs mporei na eggyhqei thn plhrh katagrafh twn dapanwn aytwn''.

``H EUROSTAT zhthse to 2002 enan katalogo twn asfalistikwn forewn kai twn oikonomikwn toys apotelesmatwn, alla den elabe pote apanthsh. Epanhlqe sto qema to Septembrio toy 2003, kai edwse proqesmia mexri to Septembrio 2004 gia thn paroxh pio ajiopistwn stoixeiwn. Etsi, dienerghqhke apo thn anoijh toy 2004 nea ektenhs ereyna apo thn ESYE gia oloys aytoys toys foreis, poy kalyce ta eth 2002 kai 2003. To apotelesma ayths htan ton perasmeno Septembrio (2004) na anaqewrhqoyn ta pleonasmata twn asfalistikwn organismwn pros ta katw apo 3,4 se 2,1 dis @ gia to 2001, apo 4,7 se 4,1 dis to 2002 kai apo 5,5 se 4,6 dis to 2003''.

``Kata th diarkeia ths apostolhs ths EUROSTAT sthn Aqhna to 1998, oi ellhnikes arxes dhlwsan oti efejhs qa kategrafan toys kefalaiopoihmenoys tokoys se tameiakh bash kata thn periodo xaritos. H EUROSTAT qewrhse oti den qa yphrxan logistikes dyskolies sth swsth katagrafh twn kondyliwn aytwn. Telika symperilhfqhkan sth dhmosia lhcodosia mono mikra posa kai molis to Septembrio 2004 diorqwqhke pragmatika h systhmatika elliphs kataxwrhsh twn poswn aytwn gia kefalaiopoihmenoys tokoys. Ola ayta ta xronia eixe ginei symfwnia toy ellhnikoy dhmosioy me megales kratikes trapezes gia thn anabolh ths plhrwmhs twn tokwn aytwn xrono me to xrono. Etsi oi tokoi den plhrwnontan pote kai kefalaiopoioyntan kaqe xrono''.

Twra einai h wra ths alhqeias kai ths ajiopistias. Htan prajh eqnikhs eyqynhs h epilogh ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei sthn apokatastash ths diafaneias sta dhmosia oikonomika.

H kybernhsh apokaqista thn alhqeia, apokaqista thn ajiopistia ths xwras mas sto ejwteriko kai egkainiazei mia nea periodo entimhs, eilikrinoys kai kalhs synergasias me toys etairoys mas.

Me thn politikh mas, thn politikh ths hpias prosarmoghs xwris metra litothtas qa meiwsoyme to elleimma kai qa periorisoyme to xreos.

Ena deytero qema sto opoio qelw na anaferqw einai: Anaferetai sth xqesinh aifnidia metabolh apochs sto PASOK gia to Asfalistiko Systhma.

Mexri prin apo dyo xronia, otan dhladh to PASOK apopeiraqhke na kanei allages sto Asfalistiko Systhma, ola ta stelexh toy PASOK @ kai sthn proeklogikh periodo me idiaiterh emfash @ tonizan oti ekeines oi allages htan poy bohqhsan to Asfalistiko Systhma kai den xreiazontai alles.

Xqes, akoysame dyo ychlobaqma stelexh toy PASOK na zhtoyn anaqewrhsh toy Asfalistikoy Systhmatos. Ara, to PASOK alla leei sth mia periptwsh kai alla sthn allh.

Einai ekeinoi poy den sebasthkan kan toys nomoys poy qespisan. Qa sas dwsw dyo paradeigmata:

@ O Nomos 3232. Toso poly ton pisteyan poy ton eferan sth Boylh to Febroyario toy 2004, dhladh molis ena mhna prin apo tis eqnikes ekloges.

@ O Nomos 3029, o opoios chfisthke ton Ioylio toy 2002 kai gia ton opoio akoysame kathgories oti den ton efarmozei h kybernhsh. Toso poly ton pisteye to PASOK, ena nomo poy eixe chfisei enamisi xrono prin apo tis ekloges, wste ryqmiseis oi opoies proebleponto sto nomo oydepote eginan prajeis.

Metajy twn ryqmisewn aytwn htan kai h ryqmish gia Eniaio Tameio Epikoyrikhs Asfalishs twn Misqwtwn (ETEAM). Qa eprepe ews tis 31/12/2003 na exoyn apodoqei ta ofeilomena posa apo to IKA sto ETEAM. Ews tis ekloges toy Martioy, sxedon 2 xronia meta thn chfish toy nomoy, h kybernhsh toy PASOK den eixe oyte ktirio, oyte grafeia, oyte stelexwsh, oyte kan thlefwna gia to ETEAM. Se ola ayta ta qemata @kai se polla alla@ qa apanthsei se synenteyjh Typoy poy qa dwsei ayrio o Ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs kai Koinwnikhs Prostasias k. Panos Panagiwtopoylos.

Ta shmeiwsa mono gia ton ejhs aploystato logo: Einai profanhs h anakoloyqia ths politikhs enos kommatos poy kybernhse epi seiran etwn.

Pistopoieitai oxi monon apo ta osa ekane h den ekane.

Pistopoieitai apo ta idia ta stelexh toy poy shmera anakalyptoyn jafnika thn anagkh na allajei to Asfalistiko Systhma, enw mexri prin apo ligo kairo elegan oti to exoyn beltiwsei kai den xreiazetai kapoia allagh. Kai,

Pistopoieitai sto prwto qema ths oikonomias, me ton pio epishmo tropo, apo th Eurostat.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: H kybernhsh qa efarmosei toys nomoys toy PASOK gia to Asfalistiko;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh qa proxwrhsei stis ryqmiseis ekeines oi opoies einai aparaithtes na ginoyn. Gia paradeigma sas eipa gia to qema toy ETEAM, to opoio qa proxwrhsei me to syntomotero dynato tropo. Gia opoiesdhpote alles ryqmiseis kai leptomereies qa apanthsei ayrio o Ypoyrgos k. Panos Panagiwtopoylos, o opoios hdh proanhggeile xqes, meta th synanthsh toy me ton Prwqypoyrgo, thn anagkh na ginoyn peraiterw ryqmiseis, oxi sth basikh domh toy Asfalistikoy Systhmatos @ dhladh gia qemata poy exoyme janapei sto parelqon, opws ta oria hlikias, oi eisfores kai to efapaj @ alla se ekeina ta zhthmata ta opoia exoyn afeqei akalypta apo to PASOK.

SOYGLERHS: Yparxei skech ths kybernhshs gia neo gyro diapragmateysewn gia to Asfalistiko twn trapezoypallhlwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yparxei kati perissotero apo osa sas exw pei mexri twra.

KAKALHS: Molis prin apo dyo mhnes eixe diabebaiwsei o Prwqypoyrgos sth Qessalonikh oti to Asfalistiko den anoigei, alla blepoyme oti exei anoijei diaplata. Ektimate oti den yparxei qema ajiopistias gia ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Isxyei to entelws antiqeto. Th diabebaiwsh ayth thn epanelaba molis prin apo ligo. Sas eipa oti yparxei anagkh na ekplhrwqoyn ryqmiseis, oi opoies exoyn meinei sto keno.

SIDERHS: O k. Meimarakhs zhthse dhmosiws apolysh synadelfoy apo to APE, o opoios exei ta idia xronia sth dhmosiografia me osa exei o k. Meimarakhs sthn politikh, enw symfwna me to reportaz parenebh gia na allajei h eidhsh poy ton aforoyse. Rwtaw apo pote h anejarthsia twn dhmosiografwn epafietai sthn kalh qelhsh toy kaqe Grammatews toy opoioy kybernhtikoy kommatos h einai idiokthsia toy kaqe Grammatews to kratiko Praktoreio Eidhsewn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh ayth kai o k. Meimarakhs sebontai apolytws to dhmosiografiko leitoyrghma kai th dhmosiografikh deontologia. Den qewrw piqano na exei ginei ayto to opoio moy lete.

BLAXOS: Mhpws mporeite na mas peite apo th dikh sas apoch poia einai h basikh aitia gia thn kontra sas me ton k. Meimarakh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yparxei kanenos eidoys kontra. H synergasia me ton k. Meimarakh einai kalh kai kaqhmerinh.

XIWTHS: Eiste Ekproswpos olhs ths kybernhshs h mono toy Prwqypoyrgoy; Prin apo ligo symperiferqhkate ws epishmos Ekproswpos toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Poio einai akribws to fasma twn armodiothtwn poy ekproswpeite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai ayto poy einai kaqe Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. An diabazate prosektika th synenteyjh moy, qa blepate oti den eipa kaqoloy ayto to opoio molis prin apo ligo epikalesthkate. O Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos exei yp` eyqynh toy th synolikh paroysiash toy ergoy ths kybernhshs. Epishs, exei sthn eyqynh toy na syndiamorfwnei me toys ypoloipoys ypoyrgoys thn kentrikh epikoinwniakh politikh. Kaqe ypoyrgeio exei sth dikh toy eyqynh na probalei ta qemata toy. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti o Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos den mporei na probalei h den prepei na probalei ta qemata kaqe ypoyrgeioy giati ayto synista synolikh kybernhtikh politikh.

TSIODRAS: Lambanei ypoch ths h kybernhsh th dysareskeia poy ekdhlwqhke sth xqesinh syskech sth Rhgillhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai aytonohto oti se ena komma, se ena zwntano organismo, opws einai h Nea Dhmokratia, yparxoyn apoceis tis opoies h Dhmokratia epitassei na akoygontai. Ola ginontai gia th beltiwsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy. Eimai apolytws pepeismenos oti kaqe boyleyths, kaqe stelexos milwntas eite dhmosiws, eite se syndiaskeceis h syskeceis armodiwn organwn exei mono stoxo toy th beltiwsh aytoy toy ergoy.

TSIODRAS: Den sas anhsyxoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na me anhsyxei h Dhmokratia; Kaqoloy, isa-isa.

PALAIOLOGOS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai enoxlhmenos apo ta parapona kai apo tis kathgories poy diatypwnoyn stelexh, boyleytes, syndikalistes kata sygkekrimenwn ypoyrgwn kai Genikwn Grammatewn; Einai enoxlhmenos h aisqanetai thn anagkh na parembei gia na apokatasthsei thn tajh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia mia akomh fora qa pw dhmosiws ayto to opoio exw pei polles fores: Oydepote ejefrasqh apo to Megaro Majimoy, oson afora ston Prwqypoyrgo opoiodhpote tetoioy eidoys synaisqhma san ayto poy anaferate eseis. Den einai ayth h logikh me thn opoia kyberna o Kwstas Karamanlhs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate prohgoymenws oti den qa proballete to ergo kaqe ypoyrgeioy. Ayto poy kanate prohgoymenws me to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn den einai ergo toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias, giati xqes ta idia akribws poy eipate twra, ta idia akribws dhmosieyontai shmera kai mas ta edwse xqes o k. Alogoskoyfhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eipa kaqoloy ayto to opoio lete kai parakalw poly na diabasete ti akribws eipa. Eipa to entelws antiqeto.

XIWTHS: Kathgoreiste oti probalete mono to qetiko ergo toy kaqe ypoyrgeioy, alla stis kriseis poy paroysiazontai sto kaqe ypoyrgeio den apantate eseis kai parapempetai sta Grafeia Typoy twn Ypoyrgeiwn. Ayto qa ginetai efejhs; Dhladh, qa proballete mono to qetiko ergo kai stis kriseis@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayth einai dikh sas apoch h kapoiwn allwn. Den isxyei ayto se kamia periptwsh.

XIWTHS: Den to lew egw. O Grammateas toy kommatos sas to eipe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den isxyei ayto se kamia periptwsh. Den eipe ayto o k. Meimarakhs. H kybernhsh exei eniaia epikoinwniakh politikh. H logikh einai na probalei to qetiko @ kai se poly megalo baqmo qetiko gia to mikro xroniko diasthma twn ennea mhnwn @ ergo ths. Kai ayto kanoyn oloi oi ypoyrgoi, alla kai o Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos.

XIWTHS: H kritikh poy dexeste den afora thn probolh toy qetikoy ergoy ths kybernhshs, alla thn adynamia na apokroysete tis epiqeseis otan@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw ena poly dyskolo ergo na epitelesw opws eipa kai prin apo arketo kairo, otan me janarwthsate sto press room. Kai ayto to ergo prospaqw ki egw kai oi synergates moy na to feroyme se peras me ton kalytero dynato tropo.

PALAIOLOGOS: Tote, pws dikaiologeite tis apoceis stelexwn toy kommatos, anaferw ton k. Panagiwtopoylo, poy epanaferoyn thn protash gia ena neo epikoinwniako organo ypo th dikh sas epopteia, prokeimenoy na diorqwqoyn ta kakws keimena sthn epikoinwniakh politikh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw thn entypwsh oti apanthsa akribws sto idio erwthma, prohgoymenws.

PALAIOLOGOS: Wstoso, den moy eipate, omws, gia thn protash poy epanaferoyn orismena koryfaia stelexh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw janamilhsei gi` ayto to qema polles fores. Den exei allajei tipota apo ayta poy sas exw pei.

PAPADOPOYLOS: H synergasia metajy kommatos kai kybernhshs se ti epipedo brisketai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se para poly kalo epipedo.

GKOYTZANHS: Afoy h synergasia toy kommatos me thn kybernhsh einai se toso kalo epipedo kai afoy eseis eixate synergasia kaqhmerinh kai toso kalh me ton k. Meimarakh, giati o k. Meimarakhs kaqe mera leei oti yparxei problhma me thn epikoinwniakh politikh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Menw se ayta poy sas eipa prohgoymenws.

KAKALHS: ``Den einai to PASOK poy shmera kanei antipoliteysh, alla h diaplokh kai ta megala symferonta'' dhlwse o ypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas k. Sphliwtopoylos kai analogh apoch ekfrasate kai eseis se mia synenteyjh sas prosfata, diakrinontas mia epiqesh apo organwmena symferonta. Kat@ arxas, pws tekmhriwnetai ayth h apoch kai kata deyteron, ti kanete eseis gia na antimetwpisete th diaplokh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa ypotimoysa pote kanenan antipalo. Den eipa pote oti den einai to PASOK poy askei antipoliteysh. Askei antipoliteysh. Ean askei kalh h kakh antipoliteysh, as to krinoyn oi chfoforoi. Den einai dikh moy doyleia.

KAKALHS: Mporeite na moy apanthsete to deytero skelos ths erwthshs; Ti kanate eseis kai pote gia na antimetwpisete th diaplokh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme labei hdh mia seira metrwn. To prwto metro poy egine nomoqethma htan h katarghsh toy maqhmatikoy typoy. O tropos, dhladh, anaqeshs twn dhmosiwn symbasewn. To deytero metro, to opoio erxetai osonoypw mexri to telos toy xronoy einai o basikos metoxos. Kai to trito metro einai h enisxysh twn anejarthtwn arxwn elegxoy. Se ayta ta tria metra exoyme desmeyqei kai proeklogika.

BLAXOS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai ikanopoihmenos apo thn eikona ths kybernhshs kai apo thn eikona toy kommatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei sto erwthma. Den prokeitai na pw tipota perissotero.

BLAXOS: To gegonos oti den apantate@ Afhnete kapoies ermhneies. H prohgoymenh erwthsh htan allh: An htan orgismenos me osa eginan, xqes. Egw den milw gia xqes, milw genika gia toys teleytaioys epta mhnes. Einai eyxaristhmenos o Prwqypoyrgos me thn eikona ths kybernhshs kai einai eyxaristhmenos me thn eikona toy kommatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh exei hdh parajei megalo kai spoydaio ergo se polloys tomeis. To ergo ayto ikanopoiei plhrws tis proeklogikes desmeyseis mas. Exoyme akoma poly dromo mprosta mas. Exoyme poly xrono gia na synexisoyme -ews to telos ths tetraetias- wste na kanoyme prajh ola ekeina gia ta opoia desmeyqhkame.

PALAIOLOGOS: Me aformh thn ekqesh ths Eurostat : Apotelei eggyhsh gia th beltiwsh twn dhmosionomikwn megeqwn kai th meiwsh toy elleimmatos to gegonos oti h xwra mas telika tiqetai ypo kaqestws epitropeias kai epopteias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai dikh sas ermhneia. H xwra mas exei dwsei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh ta plhrh stoixeia. Exei apokatasthsei thn ajiopistia ths. H apokatastash ths ajiopistias einai ena poly shmantiko bhma prokeimenoy na proxwrhsei kaneis sth lysh twn problhmatwn, afoy prohgoymenws ta exei katagracei opws kaname oloys aytoys toys mhnes.

GKOYTZANHS: Oysiastika ayto poy lete, ermhneyetai oti den qa einai ypo epopteia h xwra oloys aytoys toys mhnes. Qa einai, omws, ypo parakoloyqhsh gia to an qa petyxoyn ola@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oles oi xwres oysiastika -me th symfwnia thn opoia exoyn ypogracei edw kai polla xronia gia thn ONE- exoyn kapoies ypoxrewseis, kapoies desmeyseis. Den mporei na einai ektos kanonwn h Ellada. Oles oi xwres prepei na throyn toys kanones ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

PAPADOPOYLOS: O k. Shmiths xarakthrise thn apografh ws epipolaiothta. Pws to sxoliazete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ekana, hdh, polla sxolia gia thn apografh. Epipolaiothta einai na nomizei kaneis oti mporei na koroidecei poly kosmo epi makro xroniko diasthma.

POYLIDOY: Lete oti oles oi xwres einai ypo parakoloyqhsh. Oles oi xwres, omws, den exoyn ejaggeilei hpia prosarmogh. Aysthrh litothta kai hpia prosarmogh einai ligo sxhma adokimo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy dinete thn eykairia na pw oti oi Kassandres poy fwnazan olo to kalokairi gia aysthrh litothta poy qa ypostoyn oi Ellhnes polites, diaceysthkan. Opws diaceysthkan kai se polles alles apo tis probleceis toys gia dhqen sklhrh oikonomikh politikh ths kybernhshs. H kybernhsh me thn politikh ths hpias prosarmoghs exei petyxei polla kai qa synexisei na epitygxanei ews ton teliko stoxo.

XIWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos meleta na perikocei to programma ths episkechs toy sth Rwsia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei anakoinwqei akoma to epishmo programma ths episkechs toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth Rwsia. Otan anakoinwqei, qa gnwrizete ti qa kanei o Prwqypoyrgos.

XIWTHS: Yparxei programmatismenh anaxwrhsh th Deytera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti den exei anakoinwqei akoma to programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth Rwsia. Qa anakoinwqei ayrio h meqayrio.

XIWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos eprokeito na anaxwrhsei th Deytera kai twra, symfwna me plhrofories, qa anaxwrhsei thn Trith.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw na perimenete na anakoinwqei to programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

BLAXOS: Giati moy apanthsate sto ena skelos ths erwthshs, ean o Prwqypoyrgos einai eyxaristhmenos gia thn kybernhsh kai apofygate to ean einai eyxaristhmenos apo to komma; Agnoeite to komma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa gia ta osa exoyn ginei ayto to diasthma.

BLAXOS: Rwtw: Einai eyxaristhmenos apo thn leitoyrgia toy kommatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To komma exei organwqei se tetoio baqmo poy kanena allo komma den eixe organwqei sto parelqon. Se ayth thn aiqoysa sas eixa dwsei ena xarakthristiko kai katalytiko paradeigma: Sas eixa qymisei oti otan h N.D., ws antipoliteysh, proxwrhse sto qesmo twn syntonistwn, h kritikh poy askhqhke tote apo to PASOK htan entonh kai apajiwtikh. Aytos o qesmos petyxe apolytws. Kai erxetai to PASOK, tessera xronia meta -gia thn akribeia meta thn eklogikh htta toy- na efarmosei ton qesmo twn syntonistwn. Proxwrhsame ena bhma parapera. Efarmosame ton qesmo twn tomearxwn kai syntonistwn -enw eimaste kybernhsh- gia na leitoyrgei parallhla kai to komma, ypobohqwntas to kybernhtiko ergo. Akoysame kai pali kritikh. Eimai bebaios oti dikaiwnomaste kaqhmerina. Kai qa synexisoyme na dikaiwnomaste gia ekeines tis tomes poy exoyn ginei se epipedo kommatos kai fysika gia to ergo poy ginetai se epipedo kybernhshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati epanalabate shmera ayta poy eipe xqes o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn; Mhpws yparxei problhma me ton k. Alogoskoyfh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia na ta empedwsoyme. Allwste, h epanalhch einai mhthr pashs maqhsews. Epi mhnes oloklhroys akoygame gia thn apografh. Epi mhnes eixe bgei to PASOK kai mas elege oti kakws egine h apografh. Erxetai, loipon, h ekqesh ths Eurostat kai leei peritrana oti poly kala ekane h kybernhsh ths N.D. kai proebh se ayth thn apografh. Dinei eyshma, me tropo poy den exei ginei jana sto parelqon. Oxi mono qa to epanalaboyme, alla kai qa to fwnajoyme. Dioti olo ayto to diasthma akoygame mia kathgoria: Ti asxhma ekane h N.D. me thn apografh, ti zhmia egine ston topo, ti zhmia egine sthn E.E. Blepoyme to akribws antiqeto.

BLAXOS: Mhpws qa eixate thn eygenh kalosynh na mas peite poia einai ta MME apo ta opoia eipate oti anamenete epiqeseis; Onomastika na mas peite. Giati to na kanete mia genikeysh einai san na bazete se ena tsoybali ola ta MME.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai eygeneia kai kalosynh exw, alla o politikos logos moy stamata se osa eipa th Deytera, sth synenteyjh moy poy dhmosieyqhke ston ``Eleyqero Typo''.

SIDERHS: Oles oi kybernhseis ayto kanoyn. Molis doyn ta dyskola, kataggelloyn yponomeytes. Ean onomatizate poia einai ayta ta MME qa yphrxe diaforetikh poiothta sthn kataggelia sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na sas pw oti kanete laqos. Oi kybernhseis stis opoies anaferqhkate kai kyriws h kybernhsh toy PASOK, qymhqhke na kataggeilei kapoia systhmata otan efqase sto telos. H kybernhsh toy Kwsta Karamanlh, apo thn arxh ths qhteias ths, dhlwse oti ayta gia ta opoia desmeyqhke proeklogika, dhladh na xtyphsei th diaplokh, ta kanei prajh apo thn arxh ths tetraetias. Einai kati poy qewreitai prwtoporiako kai politika shmantiko. Qa deite oti qa einai kai apotelesmatiko.

BLAXOS: Onomatepwnymo den exei h diaplokh; Ayto zhtame. Ena onoma kai ena epiqeto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prepei na katalaboyme oti ta zhthmata qesmwn poy dhmioyrghqhkan me tetoio tropo, wste na ejyphretoyn kai na boleyoyn, einai ekeina poy prepei na antimetwpisei h kybernhsh kai ta opoia antimetwpizei hdh. O maqhmatikos typos htan ena zhthma poy oysiastika kaqodhgeito me adiafaneis diadikasies, oson afora ston tropo anaqeshs twn dhmosiwn ergwn. Ton katarghsame kai ferame pio antikeimenikes kai diafaneis diadikasies. Einai, loipon, qema qesmwn kai diafaneias.

GALIATSATOS: Me dedomeno oti o k. Alogoskoyfhs (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw tetoia plhroforia. H teleytaia plhroforia poy exw einai osa diabasa shmera gia th Eurostat poy dikaiwnei peritrana thn politikh ths kybernhshs ths N.D.

SOYGLERHS: Einai alhqeia oti o k. Almoynia proteine na epanaleitoyrghsei h Eqnikh Statistikh Yphresia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Mporeite na mas peite ean jerete pws aposyrqhke ayth h epimaxh tropologia, diatajh sto nomosxedio toy k. Paylopoyloy, gia th moriodothsh twn symbasioyxwn; Giati den mporw na pistecw oti yphrje laqos mias ypallhloy kai jexasthke se kapoio syrtari, apo to opoio to anesyre h to perase sto APE;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws anakoinwqhke, xqes, apo to Ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn kai Dhmosias Dioikhshs, den yphrxe oyte sto keimeno toy k. Paylopoyloy. Oyte egine syzhthsh sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph gi` ayto to qema. Apo laqos, pareisefrhse ayth h protash, poy htan mia apo tis polles protaseis poy eixan katateqei ston Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den aporrifqhke apo thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph; Giati ayto lene oi plhrofories, oti to keimeno ayto aporrifqhke apo thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

GALIATSATOS: H kybernhsh elege proeklogika oti o kalyteros tropos gia na ginoyn oi diagwnismoi einai o graptos diagwnismos. H antipoliteysh sas kathgorei oti ayto ginetai gia proslhceis hmeterwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H synenteyjh einai enas tropos, ton opoio den eixame aporricei pote kai isxyei hdh se kapoies epixeirhseis toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy. Aplws, emeis enisxyoyme ayton ton tropo, qewrwntas oti einai poly shmantikos, wste na mporesoyn oi yphresies na epilejoyn toys katallhloteroys. Allwste, ayth h epilogh den ginetai apo politika proswpa. H epilogh ginetai apo yphresiaka symboylia, apo yphresiakoys paragontes. To oti isxyei h synenteyjh edw kai xronia gia diaforoys tomeis toy Dhmosioy, einai gnwsto. Mporw na sas anaferw, gia paradeigma, to Diplwmatiko Swma. Xwris synenteyjh den mpainei kaneis sto Diplwmatiko Swma.

GKOYTZANHS: H logikh ths diatajhs, h opoia telika den symperilhfqh, htan na bohqhsei orismenoys tomeis toy dhmosioy tomea na kanoyn proslhceis, poy diaforetika me to ASEP den ginontai, giati to systhma einai dyskampto. To problhma ejakoloyqei na yparxei kai den to antimetwpizei to ASEP, oyte oi ryqmiseis poy efere o k. Paylopoylos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akoyw thn apoch sas me endiaferon. Qa thn metaferw ston k. Paylopoylo.

GKOYTZANHS: H erwthsh moy einai, ean qa kanete kati gia na antimetwpistei ayth h dyskamcia poy yparxei kai poy dhmioyrgei to problhma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa thn metaferw ston k. Paylopoylo. Qa ton rwthsw, ean skeftetai na kanei kati kai qa sas pw.

ANTWNOPOYLOS: Poios qa ekproswphsei th Nea Dhmokratia sto Synedrio toy Synaspismoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw akoma. Panta yparxei ekproswphsh se ola ta kommata.

Sas eyxaristw.

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