Greek Government Press Briefing, 03-07-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 22 Ioylioy 2003

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

Eisagwgika qa hqela na kanw dyo dhlwseis. H prwth afora thn episkech toy k. Karamanlh sto Iwshfogleio Idryma, bebaiws, yparxei grapth apanthsh toy yfypoyrgoy Ygeias Basilh Kontogiannopoyloy. Kai h deyterh, afora shmerinh kataqesh ths tropologias gia to ``poqen esxes'' apo boyleytes ths N.D.

Katanooyme oti o k. Karamanlhs qelei na dhmioyrghsei shmera ena epikoinwniako antistaqmisma, gia ta egkainia toy neoy Nosokomeioy twn Grebenwn apo ton Prwqypoyrgo Kwsta Shmith. O k. Karamanlhs prospaqei na gantzwqei se kati palio poy feygei, gia na antistaqei -etsi nomizei toylaxiston- sto kainoyrgio poy dhmioyrgei h kybernhsh mas. Toy leme oti: ``Mataioponei''. Apo edw kai pera, to ergo mas qa oloklhrwnetai kai qa paroysiazetai. To kainoyrgio qa proxwra kai qa dhmioyrgeitai synexws, kaqe mera, apo edw kai pera, thn idia wra poy o k. Karamanlhs qa gantzwnetai apelpismena sto palio poy kleinei. Na tonisoyme, bebaiws, oti kai oi politikes poy proteine einai antilhceis perasmenwn dekaetiwn. Yparxei, pia, alloy eidoys politikh gia ta paidia xwris oikogeneies kai oxi h idrymatopoihsh.

Oson afora to deytero shmeio, poy afora thn tropologia twn boyleytwn ths N.D. Xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos, me epistolh toy, zhthse apo oloys toys boyleytes toy PASOK na dwsoyn ta stoixeia gia tis xrhmatisthriakes synallages. Ayto qa ginei kai qa oloklhrwqei mexri tis 15 Septembrioy.

H N.D. prepei na syneidhtopoihsei oti teleiwsan ta cemata. Einai h wra ths diafaneias kai ths alhqeias. As mhn oxyrwnetai, epiteloys, se adiejodes kai anefarmostes tropologies. As tolmhsei h N.D. na anoijei toys kwdikoys twn boyleytwn ths. Ektos, ean exei na krycei kai na fobhqei kati. Se ayto to qema, qa epanelqw.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

KARGOYDH: Exw thn entypwsh apo th deyterh dhlwsh sas oti ypainisseste poly sygkekrimena pragmata, ta opoia qa mas dhmosiopoihsete kata doseis. Etsi egw to antilambanomai.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den eipa ayto. Eipa oti qa epanelqw. Kai se ayto to qema qa epanerxomaste synexws, mexri na anoijoyn oi kwdikoi twn boyleytwn ths N.D. Qa einai shmantikh h politikh eyqynh poy qa analabei to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, gia na enhmerwqei o ellhnikos laos. Ean, bebaia, to qelhsei h N.D.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Ti ennoeite otan lete, anaferomai sthn prwth sas dhlwsh, oti o k. Karamanlhs prospaqei na gantzwqei se kati palio poy feygei kai na to antistaqmisei me to kainoyrgio poy erxetai;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oti o k. Karamanlhs epeleje th shmerinh hmera gia na kanei thn episkech toy, meta apo poly kairo, dioti gnwrize oti qa ginoyn ta egkainia apo ton Prwqypoyrgo toy neoy Nosokomeioy twn Grebenwn. Qewrei, o k. Karamanlhs, oti me to na probalei palies politikes -se ktiria poy einai antikeimeno dikastikhs diamaxhs kai exoyn ejasfalistei me prosfath apofash ta xrhmata ths anapalaiwshs- nomizei oti mporei na alloiwsei th shmerinh eikona twn egkainiwn. Alla, emeis toy leme: ``Mataioponei''. Synexws qa proxwra, qa oloklhrwnetai kai qa paroysiazetai to kainoyrgio poy xtizoyme sto xwro ths Ygeias. Qa exoyme synexws thn aisqhsh toy kainoyrgioy poy dhmioyrgeitai sthn prajh. Ayth h aisqhsh qa einai gia olo ton ellhniko lao. O k. Karamanlhs, ean synexisei me aytes tis antilhceis, gantzwmenos sto palio poy feygei, apla kai mono dinei maxes xarakwmatwn, poy ek twn proterwn, einai xamenes. Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, mporw na sas pw oti sto ktirio ayto filojenoyntai ligotero apo 13 paidia. O k. Karamanlhs shmera mas zhthse na steiloyme perissotera. Einai laqos. Oi politikes aytes exoyn egkataleifqei. Yparxoyn alles politikes, gi ayta ta paidia, gia paradeigma oi anadoxes oikogeneies kai oxi ta idrymata.

GIANNISHS: Eipate prohgoymenws, se oti afora to qema toy anoigmatos twn kwdikwn twn boyleytwn ths N.D., eseis qa synexisete sto na epanerxeste sto qema kai qa enhmerwqei o ellhnikos laos. Gnwrizei h kybernhsh gia synallages boyleytwn ths N.D., oi opoies, endexomenws, na einai elegjimes;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den tis gnwrizoyme kai den mporoyme na parabiasoyme to aporrhto toys. Omws, ean synexisei o k. Karamanlhs na mhn proxwra se analogh kinhsh kai gia toys dikoys toy boyleytes, shmainei oti kati exei na krycei. Bebaiws, oso pio poly arneisai, ayto shmainei oti exeis kati na kryceis.

TSIKRIKA: Prin apo ligo h N.D. kateqese tropologia gia to ``poqen esxes'' politikwn proswpwn, apo to 1974 mexri shmera, dhladh, apo th metapoliteysh kai meta. Qelw na sxolio sas.

PRWTOPAPAS: Exei doqei h entolh elegxoy toy ``poqen esxes'' gia oloys toys politikoys mexri kai to 1990.

TSIKRIKA: Giati arneisqe;

PRWTOPAPAS: Proxwroyme ton elegxo toy ``poqen esxes'' gia oloys toys politikoys, poy shmera einai sth energo drash. Ean to zhtoymeno einai, gia osoys exoyn peqainei h gia osoys anhkoyn sthn istoria...

TSIKRIKA: Apo to 1990 kai meta yparxoyn...

PRWTOPAPAS: Apo to 1990 ews to 2003 pame 13 xronia pisw. Apo ton elegxo poy qa ginei stoys politikoys, poy drasthriopoioyntai shmera kai diadramatizoyn politiko rolo, isws ejaxqoyn polla kai xrhsima symperasmata. Allwste, epeidh sto PASOK exoyn allajei polla -den jerw ean sth N.D. menoyn oi idioi kai exoyn koyrastei- olh ayth peripoy h dekapentaetia kalyptei sxedon to synolo toy yparxontos politikoy dynamikoy mas. Ean sth N.D. einai toso palioi, wste na qeloyn elegxo apo to 1974, na to syzhthsoyme. Alla, na mhn milame meta gia koyrasmenoys. Ean einai na gyrisoyme apo to 1950, den jerw ti exei na kerdisei h politikh zwh. Emeis milame gia toys shmerinoys politikoys. Ta ypoloipa einai profaseis en amarties, antipoliteysh xwris stoxoys kai logoys.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Nomizw oti h basikh protash poy perilambanetai sth sygkekrimenh ryqmish poy proteinei h N.D. einai h epektash toy elegxoy se proswpa toy eyryteroy dhmosioy tomea, gia paradeigma, dioikhtes DEKO k.a. H kybernhsh krinei oti den qa hqele o ellhnikos laos na enhmerwqei gia piqanes allages twn perioysiakwn stoixeiwn enos anqrwpoy poy exei dioikhsei mia DEKO gia pente xronia;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kataqetoyn kai aytoi to ``poqen esxes'' opws gnwrizete kai elegxetai. Ejalloy, sth nea nomoqesia toy ``poqen esxes'' qa enisxysoyme, kata poly, toys elegktikoys mhxanismoys.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Boyleytes to kataqetoyn, alla proxwrate se ena prosqeto metro, krinontas to san aneparkes, profanws.

PRWTOPAPAS: To nomosxedio poy qa kataqesoyme sthn Olomeleia gia to ``poqen esxes'' qa exei poly megalh enisxysh apo ton elegktiko mhxanismo kai gia toys ypoloipoys. As elegjoyme, kat` arxas, toys boyleytes kai ean xreiastei qa synexisoyme. Edw eimaste gia na to syzhthsoyme. Sth logikh, omws, toy na apofygoyme kati, mhn epixeiroyme na to diogkwnoyme, na to kaqistoyme anefarmosto gia na krycoyme ton pyrhna. O pyrhnas kai oi kathgories apeyqynqhkan ston politiko kosmo.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Aytoi, omws, poy exoyn diaxeiristei to dhmosio xrhma den einai oi boyleytes, einai oi diaforoi kratikoi ajiwmatoyxoi, oi opoioi einai diorismenoi apo thn kybernhsh. Giati, loipon, na mh symperilhfqoyn sto "poqen esxes";

PRWTOPAPAS: Oi kathgories apeyqynqhkan kata toy politikoy kosmoy kai prepei na kleisei ayto to kefalaio, poy anoije h N.D. me th skandalologia ths. Ean kleisei ayto to kefalaio, qa janasyzhthsoyme. O elegxos toy "poqen esxes" afora oloys toys en energeia politikoys kai aytoys ths N.D..

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den qa mporoyse, loipon, sto idio kefalaio na mpoyn kai aytoi poy diaxeiristhkan to dhmosio xrhma kai einai diorismenoi apo thn kybernhsh, opws oi trapezites, oi proedroi organismwn...

PRWTOPAPAS: Kat` arxas, oi trapezites kai oi proedroi elegxontai. Yparxei "poqen esxes" kai h sxetikh diadikasia elegxoy apo armodioys dikastikoys leitoyrgoys. Mh dhmioyrgoyme entypwseis, ekei poy den yparxoyn. Oloi elegxontai. Labame ayth thn prosqeth prwtoboylia, giati prepei na stamathsoyn oi skies panw apo ton politiko kosmo. Otan qeleis na dieyryneis kati, thn wra poy den exei teleiwsei gia ton politiko kosmo ayth h ypoqesh kai akomh epikremetai h skia, shmainei oti den qeleis na ginei tipota, gia na meinei h skia. Giati kapoioi qeloyn na th xrhsimopoihsoyn stis ekloges. Den qa toys kanoyme, omws, th xarh. Ayth h ypoqesh qa kaqarisei. Einai h wra ths alhqeias kai ths diafaneias. Kai proeidopoioyme oti emeis anoigoyme toys kwdikoys kai gia toys boyleytes mas. Kai prokaloyme th N.D. na prajei kai ayth to idio. Kai toys kaloyme na to prajoyn twra, poy einai h wra ths alhqeias kai ths diafaneias kai epeidh ta cemata teleiwsan.

KALARITHS: H kybernhsh giati den skeftetai na leitoyrghsei prolhptika kai qa prepei na yparjoyn kathgories kai kata dioikhtikwn DEKO k.t.l., gia na leitoyrghsei ek twn ysterwn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Dioti, ayth th stigmh, den yparxei tetoio qema. Na teleiwsei h skia panw apo ton politiko kosmo. Gia ola t@ alla zhthmata, problepontai oi diadikasies kai proxwroyn. Alla to prwto zhthma einai na teleiwsei h skia kai na dialyqoyn ta nefh, poy epixeirhsan orismenoi na dhmioyrghsoyn me th skandalologia. Den qa mporei na skandalologei h N.D. kai na yponomeyei ton politiko kosmo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai poios qa dialysei ayth th skia, o k. Qwmadakhs;

PRWTOPAPAS: Xairomai poy moy qesate ayto to erwthma, giati teleytaia akoyw syxna "poios qa to kanei ayto"; O k. Qwmadakhs; Me thn idia logikh den prepei o arxhgos ths EL.AS. na syllambanei toys kleftes. Me thn idia logikh o G. Grammateas toy SDOE den prepei na diatazei elegxoys. Kai me thn idia logikh o eisaggeleas toy Areioy Pagoy den prepei na diatazei toys dikastikoys leitoyrgoys kai toys eisaggeleis na kanoyn th doyleia toys, epeidh oloi aytoi diorizontai apo thn kybernhsh. H logikh ayth einai afelhs kai anohth. Kai ennow th logikh poy prowqei h N.D. oti epeidh mia arxh, opws einai h sygkekrimenh Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, dioristhke apo thn kybernhsh gia na kanei th doyleia ths kai malista xwris ephreasmoys, gi@ ayto to logo, leei h N.D. oti einai anajiopisth. Ara, o arxhgos ths EL.AS. poy epilegetai apo tis armodies arxes, symfwna me to Syntagma mas, einai anajiopistos. O arxhgos toy Stratoy, einai anajiopistos. O G. Grammateas toy SDOE, einai anajiopistos. O eisaggeleas toy Areioy Pagoy, einai anajiopistos. Ayta den einai sobara pragmata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O Qwmadakhs einai anajiopistos, giati meteixe sto kolpo toy Xrhmatisthrioy. To jexasame, dhladh, ayto; Bazete twra to Qwmadakh na "koykoylwsei" thn istoria;

PRWTOPAPAS: Prosejte, giati kykloforoyn kai agwges se ayta poy lete, oxi, bebaia, apo mena, giati den me afora.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati, me apeileite, dhladh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ma, den afora emena.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Balate ton Qwmadakh gia na "koykoylwsei" thn istoria.

PRWTOPAPAS: Prosejte, otan apeyqynete kathgories, giati meta qa lete oti einai aysthros o nomos peri agwgwn.

BITALHS: Blepw, edw kai poly kairo, oti h kybernhsh, me tis prwtoboylies poy pairnei o Prwqypoyrgos, dinei mia emfash sth diafaneia sto politiko systhma kai idiaitera sto qema poy afora th diafaneia ston politiko kosmo gia na apomakrynqoyn kapoies skies. Yparxei, edw, ena zhthma, poy dhmioyrgei problhmatismo. Ayta ta qemata einai arketa sobara, profanws gia na analabei kai kapoies prwtoboylies o Prwqypoyrgos. To erwthma moy einai oti, afoy apofasizontai toso megalhs embeleias prwtoboylies, giati den exei anazhthqei ek twn proterwn mia synainesh apo ton politiko kosmo gi@ aytes tis prwtoboylies. Kai anaferw ena paradeigma: O Prwqypoyrgos leei oti prepei na elegxqoyn oi kwdikoi twn boyleytwn toy PASOK gia na fygoyn kapoies skies apo tis kathgories poy exoyn diatypwqei.

PRWTOPAPAS: Texnhtes skies, bebaiws.

BITALHS: Prokaleite th N.D. na kanei mia analogh kinhsh. Yparxei, bebaia, se olo ayto to pragma ena keno ws pros ton tropo poy qa ginei. Gi@ ayto o Prwqypoyrgos kalei na ginei aytoboylws. Ayto to pragma, eidika se ayto to zhthma kai me to keno poy yparxei, giati o Prwqypoyrgos, prin to proxwrhsei, den zhthse apo toys politikoys arxhgoys na proxwrhsoyn mazi sto qema ths diafaneias se ena toso kairio zhthma; Den qa mporoyse, dhladh, na exei prohghqei mia synanthsh kai na bgoyn apo koinoy apofaseis, dioti h ypoqesh ths diafaneias ston politiko kosmo afora ola ta kommata. Eseis to lete kai prokaleite kai ta ypoloipa kommata na kanoyn ayto to pragma. Alla, an den exoyn proyparjei mhxanismoi synaineshs, den dhmioyrgei adiejodo, etsi opws ginetai;

PRWTOPAPAS: H proeidopoihsh exei ginei edw kai poly kairo, alla ektimate oti qa eixe breqei lysh; Den blepete thn taktikh toy k. Karamanlh, poy einai mia arnhsh twn pantwn; Makari na eixe ayth thn taktikh h N.D. Dystyxws, exei teleiws diaforetikh.

BITALHS: O Prwqypoyrgos apeyqynqhke, prin apo tis prwtoboylies...

PRWTOPAPAS: Eixe proeidopoihsei gia tis proqeseis toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti qa dialyqoyn aytes oi skies. Pws eiste sigoyros; Apo poy to bgazete ayto; Jerete ti exoyn paijei oi alloi;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oi skies dialyontai kai dia ths kaqarsews. Otan kapoios breqei enoxos kai timwrhqei, dialyontai oi skies gia to synolo toy politikoy kosmoy. Otan yparxei diafaneia, h skia dialyetai. O aqwos einai aqwos kai o enoxos einai enoxos. Den yparxei skia. Ti shmainei "skia"; Oti yparxei mia perirreoysa atmosfaira, oti oloi kleboyn, oloi ta "pairnoyn", oloi sto kolpo einai, h opoia den exei kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta. Ara oi aqwoi na apodeixqoyn oti einai aqwoi kai oi enoxoi oti einai enoxoi. Tote, h skia dialyetai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: An ta "epairnan" oloi, den qa fwnazan. Ligoi ta "pairnoyn".

PRWTOPAPAS: Na breqoyn, loipon, aytoi oi ligoi kai na timwrhqoyn. Na dialyqei h skia gia toys polloys.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Shmera, sthn "Kaqhmerinh" yparxei ena dhmosieyma poy anaferei gia entonh dysareskeia sto Megaro Majimoy gia th dioikhsh toy OTE. Sygkekrimena, sto arqro yparxei anafora oti tiqetai qema antikatastashs toy Proedroy kai Dieyqynonta Symboyloy toy OTE k. Antwnakopoyloy. Exete kapoio sxolio;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den to gnwrizw. Opws jerete, o Proedros toy OTE eklegetai apo th Genikh Syneleysh twn Metoxwn. Den diorizetai apo thn kybernhsh. Ara, an kapoios einai eytyxhs h dystyxhs, prepei na to anazhthsete stoys metoxoys.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Exete kapoio sxolio gia to shmerino prwtoselido ths "Ayghs", symfwna me to opoio kybernhtikes diarroes kai isxyrismoi diaforwn epikoinwniakwn kentrwn, oti o eklogikos nomos poy sxediazei h kybernhsh gia thn katakthsh ths isodynamias sto 41,5 kai katalysh toy 43% einai ceydhs; H efhmerida paroysiazei ena paradeigma apo to opoio prokyptei oti me pososto chfwn katw toy 40% kai me elaxisth diafora apo to deytero komma, to prwto mporei na parei 152 edres me to sxedio poy eseis exete paroysiasei.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eimaste apolyta anoiktoi sto dialogo. Kai apo th stigmh poy o SYN proserxetai se ayton, an mas apodeijei oti kapoy den ta leme kala, na to diorqwsoyme. Ayth einai ejalloy kai h ennoia toy dialogoy.

Sas eyxaristw.

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