Greek Government Press Briefing, 03-02-05

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 5 Febroyarioy 2003

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

Yparxei anakoinwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, poy afora th shmerinh synanthsh toy me thn Proedro toy "Aqhna-2004" ka Gianna Aggelopoyloy, thn opoia sas diabazw:

``Meta tis dyo syskeceis tis opoies pragmatopoihsa me toys armodioys ypoyrgoys kai thn proedro ths OEOA ``Aqhna-2004'' ka Gianna Aggelopoyloy, stis opoies ejetasthke h ejelijh twn ergwn kai twn xrhmatodotikwn anagkwn twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn, katalhjame sta ejhs, sto plaisio ths aytoteleias kai ths eyqynhs toy kaqe forea kai ths OEOA ``Aqhna-2004'':

Gia tis olympiakes kataskeyes poy apomenei na ginoyn, ton loipo anagkaio ejoplismo kai tis loipes prosarmoges, sygkroteitai, sto plaisio ths DESOP, epitroph apo tria melh gia ton ypologismo toy synolikoy kostoys kai thn ejoikonomhsh porwn, se syndyasmo pantote me to xronodiagramma ektamieyshs twn anagkaiwn kondyliwn.

H epitroph ayth qa anazhthsei lyseis kai qa proteinei tropoys gia thn ejoikonomhsh porwn, thn ayjhsh ths synergeias twn ergwn, thn anazhthsh newn xorhgiwn kai thn telikh oikonomikh symmetoxh toy Ellhnikoy Dhmosioy kai ths OEOA ``Aqhna-2004''.

Sto plaisio ths koinhs prospaqeias olwn twn forewn, h OEOA ``Aqhna- 2004'' qa proteinei realistikes kai ylopoihsimes lyseis kai qa symballei sto metro twn dynatothtwn ths gia thn kalych meroys twn anagkaiwn dapanwn, opws aytes qa exoyn oristikopoihqei apo thn 3melh epitroph''.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

ANTYPAS: An katalaba kala h lysh poy breqhke einai oti metaqetoyme to problhma se mia Epitroph, h opoia qa kanei eishghsh...

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. Den metaqetoyme kanena problhma.

ANTYPAS: Den yparxei symfwnia ayth th stigmh, den yparxei lysh. Dhladh, meta apo dyo syskeceis den yparxei lysh.

PRWTOPAPAS: To antiqeto.

ANTYPAS: Poia einai h lysh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Symfwnhqhke o tropos poy qa proseggistei to qema twn porwn, twn ergwn, ths genikoterhs synergasias metajy ths kybernhshs kai toy "Aqhna-2004", prokeimenoy na antimetwpistoyn ta oikonomika problhmata, alla kai genikotera problhmata synergeias twn ergwn kai kalyterhs apodoshs ths doyleias mas.

ANTYPAS: Poso xrono exei sth diaqesh ths ayth h trimelhs Epitroph kai poioi thn apoteloyn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Se ayto anaferqhke o k. Xythrhs, th Deytera. Apo ekei kai pera, einai safes oti ayth h trimelhs Epitroph qa exei ws skopo thn kalyterh synergasia kai synergeia metajy olwn twn emplekomenwn, wste kai na parakoloyqoyme to kostos kai toys proypologismoys kai na ejasfalizoyme thn kalyterh apodosh twn ergwn. Na anazhtoyme prosqetes phges xrhmatodothshs kai na lynoyme, ek twn pragmatwn, ta opoia problhmata anafyontai. Einai mia diaqesh synergasias, symporeyshs kai synergeias, h opoia erxetai na apanthsei sta opoia problhmata yphrxan h poy mporei na yparxoyn kai sto mellon panw se ena terastio egxeirhma poy ginetai.

ANTYPAS: Dedomenoy oti h ka Aggelopoyloy apoxwrhse apo to Megaro Majimoy xwris na kanei dhlwseis, ayth h dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kalyptei kai thn ka Aggelopoyloy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ennoeitai ayto, afoy sas eixame proanaggeilei oti qa yparxei dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h opoia egine se synennohsh me thn ka Aggelopoyloy.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, kat` arxhn, ayta ta xrhmata poy qa dwsei to ellhniko Dhmosio, meta apo ayth th symfwnia ths Epitrophs k.t.l., se poio proypologismo qa eggrafoyn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa ginei mia katanomh toy kostoys. Yparxoyn kapoia shmeia sta opoia qa paroysiastei ena sygkekrimeno kostos, profanws dioti xreiazontai oi gnwstes olympiakes prosarmoges. Sth shmerinh anakoinwsh anaferetai oti qa ginei mia prospaqeia na kalyfqei ena meros toy kostoys aytoy, eite apo xorhgies, eite apo xrhmata toy "Aqhna-2004", eite apo xrhmata toy kratikoy proypologismoy. Qa yparxei mia synexhs synergasia kai synergeia. Einai safes oti opoies dapanes diapistwnetai oti prepei na ginoyn, dioti den mporei na ginei alliws, dioti einai dikaiologhmenes, dioti symballoyn sthn anagkaiothta kai plhrothta ths olympiakhs proetoimasias, aytes qa kalyptontai apo tis treis phges poy sas eipa. Den katalabainw poio einai to problhma. Syzhtame ta aytonohta. Exoyme mia olympiakh proetoimasia poy exei mpei se ena krisimo stadio. Kata th diarkeia ayths ths proetoimasias, ths pragmatopoihshs twn ergwn, ths diorganwshs twn Agwnwn, h opoia hdh synteleitai, paroysiazetai mia seira apo prosarmoges kai alla problhmata, poy xrhzoyn antimetwpishs. Kai einai poly logiko, se oles tis xwres toy kosmoy exei ginei ayto. H stenh synergasia ths kybernhshs kai toy "Aqhna-2004" qa antimetwpisei oles aytes tis katastaseis, me ton kalytero tropo, wste na epiteyxqei kai periorismos toy kostoys -kai to tonizw ayto- kai ta erga na ginoyn swsta.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas rwthsw ena pragma: To 2004 exei ena sygkekrimeno proypologismo. Aytos o proypologismos kalyptetai, eite apo thleoptika dikaiwmata, eite apo xorhgies, eite apo ta eisithria kai apo alles phges. Twra mas eipate oti ta xrhmata ayta, ta 250 dis poy apaitoyntai, qa breqoyn eite apo alles xorhgies, eite apo ton "Aqhna-2004", eite apo ton kratiko proypologismo. Ayta einai epipleon xrhmata, gia na ta jekaqarizoyme ena-ena. Qa yparjoyn kai alles xorhgies epipleon apo ayto poy yparxei ston "Aqhna-2004";

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa ejetastoyn oloi oi proypologismoi kai oles oi anagkaiothtes. An prosejate thn anakoinwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, omilei gia mia prosektikh ejetash olwn twn proteraiothtwn kai twn problhmatwn poy yparxoyn. Ayto shmainei oti qa ejetastei, gia paradeigma, an ena ergo mporei na dieykolynqei se synergeia me kapoio allo. Ayto shmainei oti qa ejetastoyn poies einai oi proteraiothtes mas, poia pragmata einai apolytws anagkaia kai isws poia den mas xreiazontai toso apolyta. Sth synexeia, qa ejetastei me poio tropo ayto to kostos, poy antikeimenika, symfwnhmena kai me koinh parakoloyqhsh prokyptei, qa kalyfqei. Kai qa kalyfqei apo tis treis phges tis opoies anefera. Alla, den mporoyme na gnwrizoyme, ayth th stigmh, oyte poio qa einai to porisma ths Epitrophs, oyte ti qa prokycei apo th stenh parakoloyqhsh kai synergasia, gyrw apo tis anagkaiothtes.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Profanws, ayth h Epitroph isws na mhn katalhjei se ena porisma, giati qa einai diarkhs, apo o,ti katalabainw, dhladh qa paei mexri to 2004.

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa xreiastei na dwsei oles aytes tis apanthseis.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Qelw mia dieykrinish: Ayta ta erga einai kai ayta poy exoyn ginei h exoyn jekinhsei oi proypologismoi twn allwn poy exoyn jekinhsei, qa yparxei epanadiapragmateysh;

PRWTOPAPAS: O skopos den einai, ayth th stigmh, na syzhthsoyme leptomereies. Mhn epixeiroyme na dhmioyrgoyme problhmata ekei poy den yparxoyn. Teqhke ena zhthma olympiakwn prosarmogwn. Ena zhthma oikonomikhs poreias kai kalychs mias seiras anagkwn poy yparxoyn. Egine mia syzhthsh metajy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kas Aggelopoyloy kai symfwnhqhke -kai ayto anakoinwse o Prwqypoyrgos- mia sygkekrimenh meqodos, wste na parakoloyqhsoyme stena kai mazi -kai exei shmasia ayto- oles aytes tis ejelijeis, wste kata ton kalytero, asfalestero kai oikonomikotero tropo -kai epimenoyme s` ayto- na ginei olh h olympiakh proetoimasia. Me stenh synergasia olwn. Poio einai to problhma; Edw, qa syzhtoyme to politiko qema.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Eseis den diapistwnete kapoio problhma na yparxei, enamisi xrono prin toys Olympiakoys Agwnes h kybernhsh na anagkazetai na systhsei mia Epitroph me ton "Aqhna-2004" gia na exei armonikh kai stenh synergasia; Giati, einai gnwsto oti gia na kanei ayth thn kinhsh o k. Shmiths, shmainei oti o "Aqhna-2004" den dexqhke apo thn arxh th synergasia kai ton elegxo sta oikonomika. Thn Epitroph, giati thn kanate tote;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den anagkazetai kaqoloy. Dioti, sto plaisio ths DESOP den mporei oloi oi ypoyrgoi na kanoyn, taytoxrona, thn idia doyleia.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Ayth h anagkh apo poy proekyce;

PRWTOPAPAS: Xreiazetai mia stenh synergasia, sto plaisio ths DESOP, mia proetoimasia ths DESOP, gia na pairnei tis swstes apofaseis. Ara, loipon, prokyptei h anagkh kapoioi anqrwpoi na asxolhqoyn me kapoio sygkekrimeno antikeimeno. Qa asxoleitai olh h DESOP, poy einai ena megalo meros ths kybernhshs kai olh h Organwtikh Epitroph, me to idio qema; To briskete ayto swsto; Den katalabainete oti xreiazetai mia anagkaia eyelijia;

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Egw sas milw gia to problhma.

PRWTOPAPAS: H anakoinwsh leei: "... gia tis olympiakes kataskeyes poy apomenoyn na ginoyn". Ara, sto erwthma sas, an janagyrizoyme apo thn arxh, h apanthsh einai eyqews "oxi". "Ton ypoloipo anagkaio ejoplismo kai tis loipes prosarmoges -milame gi` ayta poy exoyme mprosta mas na antimetwpisoyme- sygkroteitai, sto plaisio ths DESOP, Epitroph apo tria melh gia ton ypologismo toy synolikoy kostoys, aytoy poy exoyme mprosta mas, thn ejoikonomhsh porwn, panta se syndyasmo me to xronodiagramma ektamieyshs". Qeloyme ayto poy exoyme mprosta mas na to kanoyme symfwnhmena, grhgora kai oikonomika. Eimai safhs.

H Epitroph ayth exei stoxo na proteinei tropoys gia to pws qa to kanoyme oikonomika, na doyme thn ayjhsh ths synergeias twn ergwn, thn anazhthsh newn xorhgiwn, an kapoy den mporoyme kai prepei na to plhrwsoyme opwsdhpote, kaqws kai thn telikh oikonomikh symmetoxh sto kostos toy "Aqhna-2004" kai toy ellhnikoy Dhmosioy. Kai h Organwtikh Epitroph, symfwna me thn anakoinwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, apodexetai na proteinei realistikes kai ylopoihsimes lyseis kai na symballei -sto metro twn dynatothtwn ths- sthn kalych meroys twn anagkaiwn dapanwn, opws aytes qa exoyn oristikopoihqei apo thn Epitroph. Qewrw oti einai mia poly kalh katalhjh, se synexeia ths synedriashs ths Deyteras, h opoia oristikopoiei th stenh synergasia ths kybernhshs me ton "Aqhna-2004" kai odhgei sthn kalyterh, apotelesmatikoterh kai oikonomikoterh ektelesh twn ergwn poy apomenoyn.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ayth h syskech kai ayth h apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy exei na kanei me ta prosqeta posa poy zhthse h ka Aggelopoyloy twn 250 dis kai meta apo ayth thn anakoinwsh, ikanopoihqhke ayth h apaithsh ths kas Aggelopoyloy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Exei na kanei me oles tis enapomeinases anagkaies dapanes gia thn kataskeyh ergwn gia tis olympiakes prosarmoges. Profanws, einai safes oti, apo th stigmh poy o Prwqypoyrgos ekdidei ayth thn anakoinwsh, einai kai h telikh symfwnia, h telikh apofash poy elhfqh.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ikanopoihqhke h ka Aggelopoyloy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Nomizw pws, nai. Ayto einai dedomeno.

KARGOYDH: An qymamai kala, sthn pro trihmeroy synedriash, elhfqh mia apofash opoy h omada parakoloyqhshs ergoy, h opoia apoteleitai apo tessera-pente atoma, qa analambane na elegxei kai na parakoloyqei toys proypologismoys twn dyo merwn, dhladh toy dhmosioy kai toy "Aqhna-2004". Tote, eixe eipwqei oti einai mia apofash apo koinoy symfwnhmenh apo thn pleyra toy "Aqhna-2004" kai ths kybernhshs. Shmera, se diadikastiko toylaxiston epipedo. Xqes, legame oti yparxei problhma me ton "Aqhna-2004"...

PRWTOPAPAS: Mh diadikastilogoyme twra. Einai safes oti perimenan orismenoi na yparxoyn problhmata sth sxesh ths kybernhshs me ton "Aqhna-2004". Den yparxoyn.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Nai, alla den maqainoyme poios qa xrewqei ta xrhmata.

PRWTOPAPAS: To anaferei h anakoinwsh.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Oxi, giati, ayth h trimelhs Epitroph systhqhke apo th stigmh poy proekyce to elleimma twn 250 dis draxmwn. Gia ton kratiko proypologismo, ta 4,6 dis eyrw, den yparxei kanena problhma syntonismoy.

PRWTOPAPAS: Epitrecte moy na sas pw oti den apodexomai th lejh "elleimma", dioti exw thn eyaisqhsia, logw oikonomikwn gnwsewn. Einai ypologismoi anagkwn kai oxi elleimmatos. Na prosexoyme, dioti h lejh "elleimma" parapempei se alla qemata. Se ena shmeio ths anakoinwshs toy -kai qelw na to prosejete- leei o Prwqypoyrgos: "...gia tis olympiakes kataskeyes poy apomenoyn na ginoyn, ton loipon anagkaio ejoplismo kai tis loipes prosarmoges". Dhladh gi` ayto poy exoyme na kanoyme apo edw kai pera, sygkroteitai mia epitroph me skopo, prwton, na ejasfalisei thn kalyterh apodosh twn ergwn, deyteron, na ejasfalisei thn oikonomikoterh pragmatopoihsh twn ergwn kai triton, na breqei tropos na kataneimei tis dapanes kai na anazhthsei kai neoys poroys.

GARGALAKOS: Xqes, sth Boylh o Prwqypoyrgos xrhsimopoihse orismena ntokoymenta poy anaferontai sto diktatora Papadopoylo. Malista ta kateqese sth Boylh, prokeimenoy na kathgorhsei ton arxhgo ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Wstoso, ayth h kinhsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy enoxlhse arketoys se symboliko epipedo @to tonizw- to na kataqetei, dhladh, o Prwqypoyrgos xoyntika ntokoymenta sta praktika ths Boylhs. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

PRWTOPAPAS: As erqoyme loipon sth xqesinh syzhthsh, gia thn opoia exoyme na poyme mia seira pragmata kai qa symperilabw kai to qema poy me rwthsate. Edw kai polles hmeres parakoloyqhsame mia, me tympanokroysies kai allh xrhsh ``moysikwn organwn'', proanaggelia ths N.D. oti dhqen qa yparjoyn apokalyceis, onomata -ta eipe ayta o k. Royssopoylos, oxi kapoia tyxaia stelexh- oti qa yparjei mia katakeraynwsh ths kybernhshs kai apokalyceis sth Boylh, kata th diarkeia ths syzhthshs, gia to kratos kai ta problhmata diafqoras. Apo thn olh syzhthsh mporoyme, pleon, na bgaloyme ta prwta symperasmata, dhladh, akribws, poy odhghse ayth h taktikh ths N.D.

Prwton: H N.D. sthn oysia paroysiase, me thn omilia toy arxhgoy ths, mia apo ta idia. Den eipe apolytws tipota. "Mia trypa sto nero". Wdinen oros kai eteken myn. Qa elega, ena qeamatiko tipota htan h omilia toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs kai ta dhqen stoixeia, ta anyparkta onomata kai tis anypostates kataggelies, tis opoies ektojeyse. Ayto einai to prwto symperasma. Poly kako gia to tipota. Ayto deixnei thn ajiopistia toy kommatos ths N.D. kai to laqos poy ekanan osoi espeysan na yioqethsoyn tis diarroes poy ginontan apo toys armodioys aytoy toy kommatos.

Deyteron: Gia mia akomh fora, o k. Karamanlhs xrhsimopoihse th gnwsth taktikh ths fqoras, ths yponomeyshs kai ths apajiwshs twn pantwn. Ayta htan ta basika stoixeia ths omilias toy. Ta idia eixe kanei to komma toy kai to 1989, otan epixeirhse na dhmioyrghsei ena genikeymeno klima skandalologias kata pantwn, apo ton tote Prwqypoyrgo mexri kai ton teleytaio ypallhlo sth dhmosia dioikhsh. "Oloi ta pairnoyn, oloi kleboyn, oloi dhqen einai diefqarmenoi". Fqora, yponomeysh kai apajiwsh twn pantwn. San na mhn leitoyrgoyn oi qesmoi, h Dhmokratia, h Dikaiosynh, oi elegktikoi mhxanismoi sth dhmosia dioikhsh, san na mhn yparxei tipota. Ta idia ekanan kai to 1989, ta idia ekanan kai ligo prin apo tis ekloges toy 2000, anejarthta ean to parathsan meta. Einai synhqhs h taktikh toy kommatos ths N.D. na epixeirei na dhlhthriazei to dhmosio bio ths xwras, na rixnei skies sthn oikonomikh ths zwh, na yponomeyei thn koinwnikh zwh, na apajiwnei toys qesmoys, na odhgei thn ellhnikh koinwnia se atrapoys epikindynes. En agnoia toy, aqela toy, ayth h rhtorikh poy xrhsimopoihse o k. Karamanlhs, mesa sthn prospaqeia toy na emfanisei thn Ellada gkriza kai mayrh, mia oysiastika akrodejia rhtorikh, ton parasyrei na epanalambanei thn idia fraseologia poy sto parelqon xrhsimopoihsan aparadektes kai katadikasmenes katastaseis. Ayto eipe o Prwqypoyrgos. Oti sthn prospaqeia toy na odhghsei se fqora, apajiwsh kai yponomeysh twn pantwn kai idiws twn qesmwn, o k. Karamanlhs kanei to laqos kai parasyretai se mia akrodejia rhtorikh. En agnoia toy kai aqela toy odhgeitai sthn oysia sto na epanalabei thn idia rhtorikh, tis idies logikes poy sto parelqon xrhsimopoihsan katadikasmenes katastaseis sth syneidhsh toy ellhnikoy laoy. Pisteyw oti se ayto kaneis den mporei na exei amfibolies.

Qa xrhsimopoihsw tria paradeigmata, endeiktika ths logikhs poy xrhsimopoihse o k. Karamanlhs, xqes.

Sto qema ths Dieqnoys Diafaneias apekryce apo ton ellhniko lao oti aytos einai idiwtikos organismos, to Symboylio toy opoioy synedriazei se kaqe xwra kai bgazei th dikh toy ektimhsh. Ara, ean enas idiwtikos organismos se kapoia xwra ths Afrikhs, qelei na ta paroysiasei ola rodina, yioqetei h dieqnhs oti edw mas ta lene ola rodina, xwris kanenan elegxo kai kamia tekmhriwsh. Einai dynaton o arxhgos toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, enas qesmikos paragontas sth xwra na yioqetei akrita kai epikindyna, tetoies logikes;

Na anaferqw sto deytero paradeigma, stis logikes poy xrhsimopoihse gia thn perifereiakh odo ths Patras, opoy pragmatika h logikh fainetai na mhn exei kamia shmasia gia ton k. Karamanlh kai opoy pragmatika ta paradeigmata poy edwse kai ta osa eixan prohghqei tis prohgoymenes hmeres, odhghsan se mia apwleia kaqe aisqhshs ths pragmatikothtas.

Kai to trito, to opoio kata th gnwmh moy einai idiaitera epikindyno, einai ayto toy Eqnikoy Symboylioy Radiothleorashs. O k. Karamanlhs h den gnwrize h jexase kata th diarkeia ths omilias toy oti to ESR einai anejarthth arxh, h opoia anedeixqh omofwna apo th Boylh twn Ellhnwn. Thn chfisan kai stelexh ths N.D., ta opoia metexoyn sth Diaskech twn Proedrwn. Kai hrqe na mas pei gia fainomeno diafqoras, se mia aplh prajh toy ESR, mias anejarthths arxhs. Oyte aythn den sebasthke. Toy zhtoyme na zhthsei sygnwmh gi ayth toy thn energeia. Kai na perifroyrhsei, toylaxiston -ean den qelei na sebetai toys qesmoys, ean den qelei na sebetai tipota- tis anejarthtes arxes, poy exei chfisei. Den mporei na emfanizei san fainomeno diafqoras thn ekdosh pistopoihtikoy apo thn anejarthth arxh, otan malista mia aplh anagnwsh, ean eixe mpei ston kopo na diabasei to sxetiko xarti, deixnei oti yparxei profanes laqos sthn hmeromhnia. Dioti, gia paradeigma, to YPEXWDE zhthse stis 6.9.2002 apo to ESR, na ekdwsei pistopoihtiko gia thn etaireia AKTWR kai to ESR apanta stis 26.9.2002. Aplws, mesa sta ``exontas ypoch'', to 6.9.2002 exei ginei 6.10.2002. Einai profanes oti exei ginei laqos sthn hmeromhnia. Ayth einai h megalh apokalych toy k. Karamanlh. Exw sta xeria moy kai to eggrafo toy YPEXWDE, to opoio pragmati exei hmeromhnia 6.9.2002 kai thn apanthsh toy ESR poy einai 26.9.2002 kai to profanes laqos. Profanws, kapoios poy egrace to sxetiko keimeno sto kompioyter, anti 6.9 egrace 6.10. Kai ayto to laqaki, to opoio eykola fainetai apo thn parabolh twn dyo eggrafwn, o k. Karamanlhs to paroysiase xqes, ws pistopoihtiko diafqoras kai malista apo mia anejarthth arxh. Me tetoia sobarothta, den jerw poy pame.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Me dedomeno oti o arxhgos ths N.D. arqrwnei to sygkekrimeno politiko logo kai th sygkekrimenh programmatikh qesh, peri epanidryshs toy kratoys edw kai kairo -den to ekane xqes- qewrei h kybernhsh kai o Prwqypoyrgos oti to peripoy 40% toy ellhnikoy laoy poy briskei elkystiko ton politiko logo ths N.D., aresketai stis logikes ths diktatorias, me thn opoia prosomoiase xqes th N.D. o Prwqypoyrgos;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. Den prosomoiase o Prwqypoyrgos me th diktatoria th N.D. Sas parakalw na diabasete prosektika to logo toy, gia na mhn dhmioyrgoyntai entypwseis. Isws xreiazetai na sas ton diabasw: ``Ola osa, omws, isxyrizetai o proedros ths N.D., sto aithma toy gia th dienergeia ayths ths syzhthshs, o ellhnikos laos ta exei janakoysei. Den einai nea, opws qelei na isxyrizetai. Einai oi gnwstes syntages, poy dystyxws exoyn janadokimastei sto parelqon. Roph pros th synallagh, dwrodokia, taktopoihsh kommatikwn filwn, diabrwsh twn qesmwn, kataspatalhsh kai diaspaqish toy dhmosioy xrhmatos, skandala, spatales, yperbaseis, xaristikes diatajeis, proxeirothta kai shch kai ayta gia ena neo kratos. Ola ayta poy sas diabasa, htan ta logia kai ta epixeirhmata poy epanalambane h pio noshrh ekfrash ths ellhnikhs koinwnias, o G. Papadopoylos kai oi doryforoi toy gia na dikaiologhsoyn thn yparjh toys. H N.D. -prosejte th sxetikh apostrofh toy Prwqypoyrgoy- en agnoia ths anaparagei thn idia akribws fraseologia. Kai o logos ths qa eprepe na thn problhmatisei''. Einai safes, loipon, oti den prosomoiazei, to antiqeto leei.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Ayto sas rwtw. Ean aytos o programmatikos logos, poy aqela toy moiazei me to logo poy arqrwne o diktatoras kai poy to briskei elkystiko ena kommati ths koinwnias, ean ayto to kommati ths koinwnias aresketai stis logikes toy diktatora;

PRWTOPAPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos den eipe oti to briskei elkystiko kaneis. Epeshmane ston k. Karamanlh oti me thn prospaqeia fqoras, apajiwshs kai yponomeyshs twn qesmwn kai twn pantwn @o,ti akribws ekane h paratajh toy to 1989, kai opws polles fores epixeirhse na kanei- oysiastika odhgeitai o idios kai ta stelexh ths N.D. se mia akrodejia rhtorikh. Kai oti en agnoia toys, aqela toys anaparagoyn thn idia rhtorikh poy xrhsimopoihsan palaiotera katadikasmenes katastaseis. Ayto einai epikindyno. Kai to epishmainei o Prwqypoyrgos, wste na gnwrizei o k. Karamanlhs ti eidoys askoys toy Aioloy anoigei kai se poies epikindynes atrapoys mas odhgei, otan yioqetei aytoy toy eidoys th rhtorikh. Otan, dhladh, epitrepei na dhmioyrgeitai to edafos, to ypostrwma gia na broyn edafos aytes oi praktikes apo ekeinoys poy tis qeloyn.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Gnwrizete poios htan o empneysths o exwn thn idea gi ayth thn prwtoboylia toy Prwqypoyrgoy; Giati xqes stis kat idian syzhthseis toys ta stelexh toy PASOK, edeixnan mia asynhqisth aproqymia na analaboyn...

PRWTOPAPAS: H omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy, einai omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Desmeyei apolyta ton idio, o opoios ekrine oti eprepe na pei enwpion toy ellhnikoy laoy ayta ta pragmata. Kai bebaiws, opws sas anelysa prin apo ligo, o Prwqypoyrgos den einai h prwth fora poy anaferetai se ayto to qema. Exei na kanei me thn prospaqeia apajiwshs, fqoras kai yponomeyshs twn pantwn, thn eikona ths gkrizas kai mayrhs Elladas, poy prowqei o k. Karamanlhs. Epaneilhmmena exei anarwthqei kai tonisei o Prwqypoyrgos oti odhgoymaste se epikindyna monopatia, otan epixeiroyme na fqeiroyme ta panta sth logikh, sto bwmo toy mikrokommatikoy ofeloys. Giati to kanei ayto o k. Karamanlhs, otan den exei kanena stoixeio gia tipota, otan toses meres mas talaipwrei oti qa pei onomata, qa apodeijei tis katastaseis, qa ta bgalei ola sth fora; Kai meta apodeiknyei oti oyte onomata leei, oyte katastaseis apokalyptei, oyte exei tipota sygkekrimeno na kathgorhsei. Aoristies, genikologies kai asteiothtes, opws ayth sthn opoia anaferqhka gia to ESR. Den distazoyn oi anqrwpoi, prokeimenoy na broyn kati na poyn, na yponomeyoyn toys qesmoys, na katapatoyn thn aytonomia twn anejarthtwn arxwn, na mh sebontai oyte thn chfo toys. Einai epikindynoi aytoi oi anqrwpoi. Ayto hqele na tonisei o Prwqypoyrgos.

TRIANTAFYLLOY: Ayto poy rwtaw einai oti gia prwth fora sta koinoboyleytika xronika enas Prwqypoyrgos kataqetei sta praktika ths Boylhs eggrafa poy aforoyn enan diktatora. Kai ayto xarakthristhke san olisqhma kai apo stelexh toy PASOK.

PRWTOPAPAS: Na moy peite apo poion, giati egw den akoysa kanenan. Deyteron, o Prwqypoyrgos den kateqese to keimeno toy diktatora, legontas oti ayto einai keimeno kapoioy alloy. Eipe oti, ean cajete ayto to aparadekto keimeno toy diktatora, qa breite mesa stoixeia rhtorikhs, ta opoia prepei na ta apofygete. Ayth htan h oysia. Tonise oti en agnoia ths h N.D. ekane ayto to olisqhma. H prospaqeia toy k. Karamanlh na ekmetalleytei ta panta, ton parasyrei se akrodejia rhtorikh. Toy epeshmane oti ayto einai ena laqos epikindyno gia oloys mas.

KALARITHS: Problhmatise thn kybernhsh to gegonos oti olh h antipoliteysh kai ta kommata ths elassonos antipoliteyshs antedrasan se ayto, parolo poy h epiqesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy aforoyse th N.D.;

PRWTOPAPAS: Anafereste se alles antidraseis, opws toy k. Kwnstantopoyloy.

KALARITHS: Kai ths kas Paparhga., opoy oloi ekrinan arnhtika thn kinhsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, gia to diktatora...

PRWTOPAPAS: Kat` arxas, sas anefera poia htan h pragmatikh ennoia ths omilias kai den einai h prwth fora poy anaferetai o Prwqypoyrgos. Sth Boylh, tonizw, anaptyssoyn oloi tis apoceis toys kai einai logiko. Ayto einai stoixeio ths Dhmokratias. Ara, loipon, qa apeyqynei kai ta ``kathgorw'' toy pros thn kybernhsh kai thn kritikh toy kai piqana kai se alla zhthmata. Ayto den einai kako, akoma kai ean ycwnontai kamia fora oi tonoi. To Koinoboylio einai o naos ths Dhmokratias. To stoixeio ths kritikhs sto Koinoboylio panta yparxei. Den qewrw, loipon, oti dhmioyrgeitai kanena problhma me ta dyo kommata ths Aristeras. Ekanan thn kritikh toys kai einai logiko. Mesa apo to dialogo epixeiroyme na dwsoyme ki emeis th dikh mas optikh kai tis dikes mas apanthseis. Den yparxei kanena problhma me ta kommata ths Aristeras.

KALARITHS: O Prwqypoyrgos, mhpws, me ayth thn kinhsh hqele na pei oti opoios diafwnei gia orismenoys xeirismoys ths kybernhshs kindyneyei na xarakthristei akrodejios h opados toy diktatora;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den xarakthrise kanenan opado toy diktatora. Sas diabasa to keimeno gia na sas bohqhsw. Poy anaferei to keimeno oti xarakthrizei kapoion opado toy diktatora;

KALARITHS: Mporei kapoios na to eklabei, oti opoios diafwnei den dikaioytai na askei kritikh gia na mh xarakthristei akrodejios.

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa sas parakaloysa na prosejete to keimeno. Egw sas to diabasa dyo fores, den nomizw oti to keimeno dinei tetoia dikaiwmata, ektos an kapoios qelei na to diastreblwsei.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Ws proswpo einai epikindynos gia th Dhmokratia mas;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den omilw, bebaia, gia proswpa, alla gia epikindynh politikh. Kai einai epikindynh kai dioti fqeirei thn Ellada kai dioti fqeirei toys qesmoys kai dioti empodizei kai dhmioyrgei sthn koinwnia mia arnhtikh eikona, xwris na yparxei logos. Dioti krybei ta pragmatika problhmata twn qylakwn ths diafqoras opoy yparxoyn. Dioti prospaqei na apajiwsei otidhpote ginetai sth xwra. Prospaqei na yponomeysei tis prooptikes anaptyjhs ths. Kai se telikh analysh, dhmioyrgei mia asfyktikh katastash sthn koinwnia kai sto politiko systhma. Mia katastash arnhtikh gia oloys mas. Mas paei pisw ayth h katastash. Pane thn Ellada pisw aytes oi logikes. Aytos einai o kindynos.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn apeiles kai gia to dhmokratiko mas politeyma apo aytes tis logikes;

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa egw tetoio pragma;

KANELLOPOYLOS:. Erwtw, ean o k. Karamanlhs einai epikindynos gia th dhmokratia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. To dhmokratiko mas politeyma paei poly kala kai antimetwpizei poly kala oles tis katastaseis. Den kindyneyei apo kanenan.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Oi akrodejies logikes einai omws epikindynes gia th dhmokratia. Taytizete ton arxhgo ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs me aytes tis logikes.

PRWTOPAPAS: Prwta ap' ola, den eipame oti o arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs exei akrodejies logikes. Eipame poly kaqara oti parasyretai se mia akrodejias kateyqynshs rhtorikh, otan prospaqei na paroysiasei ta panta oti einai yponomeymena, apajiwmena kai oti tipota den leitoyrgei, oti tipota den ginetai kai tipota den yparxei sthn Ellada. Aytoy toy eidoys h rhtorikh mas qymizei akrodejia rhtorikh. Kai den wfelei se tipota. En agnoia toy kai aqela toy mimeitai rhtorikh katadikasmenwn katastasewn. Ayto politika einai katakriteo. Kai bebaiws, den einai h prwth fora poy to kanei h Nea Dhmokratia. Ta idia ekane kai to 1988 - 1989. Kai eidame poia htan ta apotelesmata ekeinhs ths istorias. Eidame pws eixan sthqei oi skeywries ekeinh thn epoxh.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Poio einai kata synepeia to epikindyno monopati;

PRWTOPAPAS: To eipa.

BITALHS: Kai to 1989 eixame ayta ta problhmata, opws ta epishmainete. To '89 omws kanenas den tolmhse na kataqesei sth Boylh tetoio ntokoymento.

PRWTOPAPAS: Ayto einai to qema;

BITALHS: En pash periptwsei, ap' ola ayta poy eipate antilambanomai ena politiko skeptiko. Ayto to politiko skeptiko, omws, se kamia periptwsh den tekmhriwnei toys logoys gia toys opoioys fqasame sto shmeio h Boylh twn Ellhnwn na dexetai sta Praktika ths tetoia keimena, mias epoxhs poy dhmioyrgoyse mono problhmata ston ellhniko lao. Ayto einai to problhma. To qema den einai h anaptyjh ths epixeirhmatologias toy Prwqypoyrgoy. To erwthma einai, giati fqasame s' ayto to akrotato shmeio h Boylh na talaipwreitai me to na pairnei sta Praktika ths ayta ta keimena enos diktatora. Milw gia thn kinhsh kai oxi gia to politiko skeptiko.

PRWTOPAPAS: Ara, loipon, eseis prosdiorizete ena allo zhthma. As ta paroyme me th seira. Feygoyme apo to prwto qema. Apanthqhke eparkws. Sas diabasa kai to sxetiko apospasma ths omilias toy Prwqypoyrgoy, dioti ap' oti katalaba oi perissoteroi den eixate to keimeno, alla mia eikona poy eixe dhmioyrghqei xqes kai htan qolh. Ara, ta pragmata ginontai pleon safh. Exoyme to keimeno, exoyme thn politikh ejhghsh poy edwsa kai exoyme kleisei to prwto kefalaio. Ti akribws hqele na pei o Prwqypoyrgos, eipwqhke. Proxwroyme sto deytero, sto giati edwse to "biblio" sta Praktika ths Boylhs. To edwse, loipon, gia pei oti "polla apo ayta poy ligo prin sas diabasa anaferontai ekei mesa, ki an exete amfisbhthsh oti anaferontai parte na ta deite". Aplo einai. Yparxei kati pio aplo;

BITALHS: Yparxei ena @ symboliko me th dhmokratia kyrie Ekproswpe.

PRWTOPAPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos eipe, an to amfisbhteite, to kataqetw gia na to breite. Den elege oti kapoios einai Papadopoylos.

PITTARAS: Diabazw apo to "pisteyw mas" toy G. Papadopoyloy:

PRWTOPAPAS: E, oxi. Na me rwthsete gi` ayto poy ekane o Prwqypoyrgos.

PITTARAS: O Prwqypoyrgos kateqese kapoia eggrafa ta opoia epikaloymai@

PRWTOPAPAS: Epanalambanw oti o Prwqypoyrgos eipe oti gia ekeinoys poy ta amfisbhtoyn ayta, kataqetw ta sxetika keimena. Ta eipa, apantwntas ston k. Bitalh. O k. Bitalhs ypebale eyqews thn erwthsh toy. Entajei den prosomoiazetai, loipon, me th xoynta, omws kanei kapoia sklhrh kritikh o Prwqypoyrgos sth logikh toy k. Karamanlh kai sth fraseologia toy, wraia to katalabainw, mporei na symfwnoyme mporei na diafwnoyme, alla einai mia allh syzhthsh. Pame parakatw, leei. Giati kataqesate to keimeno toy Papadopoyloy poy emena me enoxlhse poy to eida sta Praktika, leei o k. Bitalhs. Kai toy apantw. Ayto den doqhke gia na symbolisei kati se sxesh me ton k. Karamanlh, alla gia na apodeijei oti ayta poy diabase o k. Shmiths xrhsimopoioyntai se koinh rhtorikh, yparxoyn pragmati sto sygkekrimeno keimeno. Htan gia kaqe kakopisto poy qa elege oti oydepote yphrje tetoio pragma. Aplws, gia na dieykolynei kapoion poy hqele na ta dei, leei pare kai to sxetiko apospasma opoy ta brhka. Poly apla.

PITTARAS: Mporw na kanw thn erwthsh moy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Na kanete thn erwthsh sas, alla sas parakalw poly na qymaste oti egw erwtwmai gia tis kinhseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhshs.

PITTARAS: Na thn kanw ki an sas qigei mhn apanthsete.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den me qigei, alla qelw na exoyme kaqares ejhghseis metajy mas.

PITTARAS: Paroysiasate to skeptiko toy Prwqypoyrgoy, legontas oti polla apo ta legomena toy k. Karamanlh perilambanontai isws s' ayta ta fylladia...

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. Pali diastreblwnete ayta poy eipa. Eipa, arketes fores, oti aqela toys h rhtorikh parapempei sth rhtorikh poy eixe xrhsimopoihqei apo aytes tis katadikasmenes katastaseis.

PITTARAS: To synqhma " to kratos gia ton polith" htan h den htan ena apo ta synqhmata toy PASOK to 1981;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den qymamai tetoio synqhma. An omws me rwtate an to kratos prepei na einai gia ton polith, qewrhtika bebaiws to kratos prepei na einai gia ton polith. Me rwtate twra gia ta synqhmata toy PASOK to 1981. "O laos sthn ejoysia" htan to synqhma toy PASOK to 1981. Synqhma tetoio toy PASOK den qymamai. Qewrhtika qa mporoyse na yparjei.

PEGKOS: Esas, ws boyleyth sto nao ths dhmokratias, den sas enoxlhse h eikona oti meta thn anaparagwgh poy egine kykloforoyse kata dekades antitypa to "pisteyw" toy Papadopoyloy me th fwtografia toy kai qa nomize kaneis oti briskotan se proeklogikh sygkentrwsh ths EPEN kai oxi sto Koinoboylio;

PRWTOPAPAS: Fantazomai oti aytos o opoios to anaparhgage, to ekane gia na dei kata poso oi sxetikes anafores yparxoyn sta keimena kai oxi gia na melethsei kai na yioqethsei tis sxetikes dhlwseis.

PEGKOS: Rwtw, an sas enoxlhse h eikona.

PRWTOPAPAS: Me sygxwreite, alla ti einai ayta poy lete; O Prwqypoyrgos eipe oti yparxei mia tetoia seira pragmatwn ta opoia paroysiase. Einai h rhtorikh mias allhs katastashs. Kai epixeiroyse na pei oti otan en agnoia soy xrhsimopoieis ayth th rhtorikh, prosexe, giati qa odhghqeis se kapoies katastaseis oi opoies mporei na apajiwsoyn thn koinwnia, thn oikonomia kai th xwra. Kateqese apo kei kai pera to sxetiko eggrafo sto opoio yphrxan oi sxetikes anafores. Profanws, kapoioi hqelan na to diapistwsoyn kai to phran. Den katalabainw giati ginetai syzhthsh apo kei kai pera. Kindyneyei, dhladh, h Boylh apo mia anafora toy Papadopoyloy; Ayto pisteyete; Den kindyneyei oyte h Boylh, oyte h dhmokratia.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Gia to Irak, hqela na rwthsw an o k. Prwqypoyrgos eixe kapoies synomilies me hgetes eyrwpaikwn xwrwn ektos apo tis xqesines, enocei ths synedriashs toy Symboylioy Asfaleias toy OHE.

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas anakoinwsame, xqes, tis epafes poy eixe o Prwqypoyrgos. Bebaia, shmera, o k. Papandreoy exei metabei sth Nea Yorkh kai profanws qa exei seira epafwn, tis opoies qa sas anakoinwsoyme.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Exei prokycei apo ta stoixeia gia to qema ths tromokratias. Hqela na sas rwthsw, pote enhmerwqhke h kybernhsh oti o k. Kanas einai ypoptos gia symmetoxh se tromokratikh organwsh. Kai to rwtw ayto, giati hqela kai thn apoch ths kybernhshs, an o arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs eprepe na eixe prostateytei an mh ti allo h na eixe eidopoihqei proswpika o idios gia tis episkeceis toy sthn Kimwlo.

PRWTOPAPAS: Fantazeste oti mia kybernhsh, otan den exei apodeijeis gia kapoion oti empleketai se tromokratikh organwsh, mporei na leei opoydhpote oti aytos einai tromokraths; Ayto einai stoixeio ths Dhmokratias; Den yphrxan apodeijeis, ekeinh thn epoxh, oti o k. Kanas empleketai se tromokratikes energeies. Oyte emeis mporoysame na ton kathgorhsoyme, oyte o k. Karamanlhs ftaiei, dioti eixe ton k. Kana sthn ypodoxh toy. Ayto einai safes. Oydepote eipame emeis oti ftaiei h Nea Dhmokratia. Allo eipame emeis. Eipame oti o k. Kammenos den mporei na emfanizetai se ola ta kanalia kai na mas leei poso eidikos einai gia thn tromokratia, poso toys "krataei" oloys kai poso kala jerei ta onomata kai oti emeis den toys syllambanoyme kai thn idia wra na kanei parea me enan apo aytoys poy ypotiqetai oti hjere. Ayto eipame. Kai oti, kata synepeia, ayta poy elege o k. Kammenos den einai sobara pragmata.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Den rwthsa egw gi` ayto. Sas lew oti h kataqesh ths prwhn syzygoy toy k. Kana egine to Maio. Mexri tis dhmotikes ekloges@

PRWTOPAPAS: Otan yparxei mia kataqesh einai kapoios enoxos:

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Eixe enhmerwqei h kybernhsh;

PRWTOPAPAS: H kybernhsh enhmerwnetai se genikes grammes. Oi diwktikes arxes, loipon, den ekrinan oti ayta htan apodeiktika stoixeia ikana na odhghsoyn se apaggelia kathgorias kata toy k. Kana. Otan, loipon, oi diwktikes arxes krinoyn oti den exoyn ikana apodeiktika stoixeia gia na kathgorhsoyn ton k. Kana, oydeis nomimopoieitai na leei oti kapoios einai ypoptos. Exoyme Dhmokratia kai kratos Dikaioy sthn Ellada. Den qa apokaloyme kapoioys tromokrates xwris apodeiktika stoixeia. Makria apo emas ayta. Ayta anhkoyn alloy.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh den aisqanetai oti qa eprepe na prostateysei ton arxhgo ths N.D.;

PRWTOPAPAS: Poy den ton prostateyse h kybernhsh; Kathgorhsame emeis ton k. Karamanlh gia th sygkentrwsh sthn opoia htan o k. Kanas; Oxi. Qa mporoysate na to peite ayto, ean eixe pei estw ki enas apo mas oti ftaiei o k. Karamanlhs, epeidh htan o k. Kanas sth sygkentrwsh toy. Den eipame pote kati tetoio. Poia prostasia na toy dwsoyme; Kindyneye dhladh; Den kindyneye. Asfaleia eixe poly kalh, otan phge sthn Kimwlo. Poio einai to shmeio poy den prostateysame ton k. Karamanlh;

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Twra, mhn krinete ek toy apotelesmatos. Htan o yp' ariqmon ena melos toy E.L.A.

PRWTOPAPAS: Nai, alla htan kai ypochfios dhmarxos. Chfo zhtage. Den to jerete oti zhtage thn chfo ths N.D. sthn Kimwlo; Giati phge o k. Kanas sth sygkentrwsh toy k. Karamanlh; Phge giati zhtoyse ws ypochfios koinotarxhs thn chfo ths N.D. sthn Kimwlo. Ftaiei gi` ayto o k. Karamanlhs; Oxi bebaia, giati den to hjere. Den katalabainw poio einai to problhma. Oyte o k. Karamanlhs diamartyrhqhke, oyte emeis ton kathgorhsame.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Einai politiko to problhma, k. Ypoyrge. To qema einai, an eprepe apo tis diwktikes arxes @

PRWTOPAPAS: Moy lete oti enan anqrwpo, gia ton opoio den exoyme stoixeia, eprepe na ton bgaloyme tromokrath; Ayto moy lete twra. Kai ayto se ena dhmokratiko politeyma.

Sas eyxaristw.

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