Greek Government Press Briefing, 02-02-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 21 Febroyarioy 2002

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

Qa sas enhmerwsw gia tis eisagwgikes anafores toy Prwqypoyrgoy, sth synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs poy egine ypo thn proedria toy. Sth synexeia qa sas enhmerwsw gia tis ejelijeis sto Kypriako kai, telos gia to diktyo enantia sth ftwxeia kai ton koinwniko apokleismo.

Hdh, o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs Kwstas Skandalidhs exei probei se dhlwseis gia thn apofash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, sto qema twn paranomwn paixnidiwn se dhmosioys xwroys.

Yparxoyn epishs anakoinwseis toy ypoyrgoy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn N. Xristodoylakh kai toy ypoyrgoy Metaforwn kai Epikoinwniwn Xr. Berelh sxetika me tis apofaseis ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs gia thn poreia ths Olympiakhs Aeroporias.

O Prwqypoyrgos stis eisagwgikes parathrhseis toy ypogrammise: "Ton teleytaio kairo eimaste oloi martyres mias prospaqeias poy epixeirei na diamorfwsei ena omixlwdes topio, gyrw apo thn pragmatikothta poy epikratei sth xwra mas. Orismenoi epixeiroyn na amfisbhthsoyn o,ti exoyme petyxei. Askeitai mia mhdenistikh kritikh, diogkwnontas sto epakro periorismenhs shmasias, ws pros thn poreia ths xwras, arnhtika fainomena. Perigrafontai me kaqe glafyrothta dhqen adiejoda gia th mellontikh poreia mas. Ta pragmata, omws, den exoyn etsi. Kaneis den mporei kai den prepei na arnhqei thn alhqeia. Den yparxoyn eykoloi dromoi sthn epoxh mas. Mia epoxh me oysiastikes proklhseis kai problhmata den epidexetai eykolh antimetwpish. Den epidexetai elafrothta. Kai asfalws den afhnei periqwria eykolhs kritikhs. Tote mono mia koinwnia kai mia xwra kanei bhmata, kineitai, proxwra mprosta, otan blepei me eilikrineia kai alhqeia. Ola ayta ta xronia etsi politeythkame, xwris apofygh twn problhmatwn, xwris wraiopoihsh twn katastasewn kai o ellhnikos laos antapokriqhke. Mas pistece. Doylece mazi mas. Gi` ayto kai kaneis den parasyretai apo toys paramorfwtikoys fakoys kai tis streblwmenes eikones poy syxna exoyn thn phgh toys se profaneis skopimothtes. H paramorfwtikh proseggish twn pragmatwn ti alhqeia epixeirei; Epixeirei na anatrecei thn idia thn oysia. Th synoxh twn epiteygmatwn. Ta epiteygmata toy ellhnikoy laoy. Twn epiteygmatwn mias polyxronhs kai epiponhs poreias. Mias poreias ejairetika shmantikhs gia thn patrida mas. Poreia poy paramenei dyskolh. Poreia, omws, poy diamorfwnei prooptikes, poy fernei pio konta toys orizontes ths eyhmerias. To diapistwsame. To eyrw einai h xeiropiasth apodeijh. Emeis, h kybernhsh moy, blepoyme me realismo kai eyqynh th qetikh poreia twn pragmatwn. Thn prooptikh poy qemeliwnei, toys dromoys poy anoigei. Pairnoyme dynamh apo tis kinhseis toy ellhnikoy laoy. Pairnoyme dynamh kai proxwroyme me epimonh kai aisiodojia. Qetoyme panta to ergo mas, tis prospaqeies mas kai ta apotelesmata toys sthn krish twn politwn. O laos blepei kai krinei".

Sth synexeia, o Prwqypoyrgos ekane mia eisagwgikh anafora stis synomilies gia to Kypriako. Opws gnwrizete, oloklhrwqhke o prwtos gyros twn synomiliwn metajy toy Proedroy Klhridh kai toy k. Ntenktas gia thn ejeyresh lyshs. Enas dialogos poy egine me th stenh parakoloyqhsh toy ekproswpoy toy OHE kai sto plaisio twn genikoterwn kateyqynsewn toy Organismoy. Htan parwn o k. nte Soto. H prwth fash twn synomiliwn teleiwse thn Trith. Xqes, yphrje thlefwnikh epikoinwnia metajy toy Prwqypoyrgoy Kwsta Shmith kai toy Proedroy ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias Glaykoy Klhridh. H entypwsh poy diamorfwqhke apo th syzhthsh htan ayth akribws poy eixe kai h ellhnikh kybernhsh: Dhladh oti o k. Ntenktas, oysiastika, exei parameinei stis qeseis toy me ejairesh ena, dyo shmeia elassonos shmasias. Ayto bebaia einai apogohteytiko kai epibebaiwnei ektimhseis -ektimhseis poy eixame kanei kai se ayth thn aiqoysa- oti ayth h prospaqeia htan sthn oysia mia taktikh kinhsh. Oi dhqen nees qeseis ths toyrkokypriakhs pleyras htan mia kinhsh taktikhs gia na doqei h entypwsh sth dieqnh koinothta oti h Toyrkia kineitai se mia allh kateyqynsh. Allwste, kai to gramma toy Toyrkoy YPEJ k. Tzem -poy opws gnwrizete synanthse thn entonh antidrash twn xwrwn ths E.E.- oysiastika epibebaiwse tis gnwstes toyrkikes qeseis. H kypriakh pleyra etoimazetai gia to deytero gyro twn synomiliwn -opws syzhthsan o Prwqypoyrgos me ton Proedro Klhridh- meta thn 1h Martioy. Kataballetai, bebaiws, prospaqeia na yparjei epibebaiwsh toy oloy plaisioy poy qa diadramatisei ena shmantiko rolo, qa exei oysiastika to rolo ths proeidopoihshs pros thn toyrkikh pleyra apo to S.A. toy OHE. Ayth qa einai kai mia ypenqymish pros ton k. Ntenktas, o opoios den prepei pote na jexna pws h olh diadikasia ejelissetai sto plaisio twn apofasewn toy OHE, opws einai kai h dikh mas apoch. Gia toys logoys aytoys, kai epeidh den yparxoyn oysiastikes ejelijeis, den qa pragmatopoihqei, pros to paron, h proanaggelqeisa episkech toy Proedroy Klhridh, efoson den yparxei na syzhthqei kati neotero. Symfwnhqhke oti h anablhqeisa episkech toy Proedroy Klhridh sthn Aqhna na pragmatopoihqei, an xreiastei kai efoson yparjoyn ejelijeis, meta to b@ gyro synomiliwn, sto telos Martioy h to argotero arxes Aprilioy.

Katalhgontas, o Prwqypoyrgos epeshmane oti eimaste pleon etoimoi, opws mas enhmerwsan kai oi armodioi ypoyrgoi D. Reppas, G. Flwridhs kai Al. Papadopoylos, na proxwrhsoyme sth nomoqetikh parembash gia to diktyo enantia sth ftwxeia kai ton koinwniko apokleismo. Yparxei plhrhs etoimothta kai se ena apo ta epomena nomosxedia qa yparxoyn ta sxetika arqra poy oloklhrwnoyn thn parembash mas kai qetoyn se leitoyrgia ta metra poy eixan anakoinwqei gia to diktyo enantia sth ftwxeia kai ton koinwniko apokleismo.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

IWANNOY: Qelete na mas dieykrinisete ti akribws ennooyse o Prwqypoyrgos; Opws anaferate eipe oti ton teleytaio kairo ginomaste martyres enos omixlwdoys topioy poy prospaqei na dwsei megalyterh barythta h kapoia memonwmena arnhtika fainomena na ta paroysiasei ws adiejoda. Epishs, milhse gia paramorfwtikoys fakoys gia orismenoys skopoys h symferonta. Poioys deixnei o Prwqypoyrgos;

PRWTOPAPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai safhs sthn topoqethsh toy. Yparxoyn shmera paramorfwtikoi fakoi, yparxoyn streblwmenes eikones kai syxna aytes oi eikones exoyn thn phgh toys se profaneis skopimothtes, opoies kai an einai aytes. Bebaiws qa mporoyse kaneis na ektimhsei oti yparxei enas antagwnismos oikonomikwn symferontwn kai sto pedio ths politikhs. Opws, epishs, kai oti, ton teleytaio kairo, epixeireitai ek systhmatos apo orismenoys -isws kai gia logoys kakws ennooymenoy antagwnismoy- h dhmioyrgia mias zoferhs eikonas. Mias eikonas poy, se telikh analysh, prospaqei na kataskeyasei ejelijeis, na kataskeyasei enoxoys.

Qelw na anaferw, gia paradeigma, th xqesinh hmera. Xqes, epixeirhqhke -kai den qelw na antidikhsw me kanenan onomastika pros to paron- na kataskeyastoyn kai na problhqoyn san enoxoi dyo melh ths kybernhshs. Dhmioyrghqhke h epixeirhqhke na dhmioyrghqei mia ekrhktikh katastash. Pompwdeis anakoinwseis, proanaggelies dhqen apokalycewn, dramatikes enarjeis deltiwn eidhsewn me xartia poy "koyniontoysan" ston aera. Qa elega oti xaqhke kaqe ennoia deontologias apo orismena Mesa Enhmerwshs, kaqe ennoia sebasmoy ths anqrwpinhs ajioprepeias kai kaqe ennoia alhqeias. Epixeirhqhke na kataskeyastoyn enoxoi. Poioi ypoyrgoi eprokeito na rixtoyn sta qhria th xqesinh hmera; Oysiastika ayto htan to erwthma. Kai apodeixqhke -meta kai tis sxetikes dhlwseis poy eginan, toso apo ton k. Dry, oso kai apo ton k. Argyrh- oti den yphrxe kanena oysiastiko qema. Ti na poyme; Gia to foyrno poy poylaei cwmi kai jafnika egine "froytakia"; Den eidame aytes tis eikones xqes oloi; Ola ayta den jerw an einai en telei streblwseis kai oi xeiroteres eikones enos aparadektoy "antagwnismoy", o opoios wqei orismenoys na speydoyn na kataskeyazoyn enoxoys, prokeimenoy na ejasfalizoyn kapoia qeamatikothta. Einai monon ayto; Ayto to erwthma ofeiloyme na to qesoyme.

Qelw na epishmanw -an kai den synhqizw na sxoliazw tis dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias- oti einai idiaitera qetiko oti o k. Kwnstantinos Stefanopoylos, xqes gia mia akomh fora, ejefrase -opws synhqws ginetai- kai to aisqhma toy ellhnikoy laoy sto qema ayto. Arxizei kai dhmioyrgeitai mia idiaitera arnhtikh katastash. Proanaggellontai sirial, proanaggellontai epiqeseis. Ayrio, an ejantlhqoyn oi istories me to tzogo qa exoyme piqanws kai nea kefalaia. Katalabainoyme oti orismenoi epixeiroyn, eite sto plaisio toy kakws ennooymenoy antagwnismoy, eite sto plaisio ejyphrethshs opoiwndhpote symferontwn oikonomikwn kai mh, na kataskeyasoyn enoxoys. Kai milw gia th xqesinh eikona me ta melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy. Na dhmioyrghsoyn mia eikona peri dhqen shchs kai diafqoras kai telika na ejyphrethsoyn politika symferonta. Qa mas brei antiqetoys kati tetoio. Einai para poly safes. Ola ta stelexh mas poy qigontai qa antistaqoyn kai bebaiws qa yparxei plhrhs kalych toys. An kapoios exei pragmatika stoixeia gia opoiodhpote kybernhtiko stelexos h opoiodhpote stelexos mas, den xreiazetai na gyrizei dejia kai aristera kai na apeilei. Mporei na ta kataqesei. Kai enwpion ths koinhs gnwmhs kai ston eisaggelea. Ayth einai mia timia prajh. Ean, omws, epixeirei na kataskeyazei ayta ta stoixeia kai eite mesw ths shmeiologias h me ton opoiondhpote tropo na dhmioyrgei kaqe fora ton dhqen enoxo, o opoios qa rixtei sto qhriotrofeio ths hmeras, ofeiloyme na antidrasoyme. Kai ofeiloyme na antidrasoyme oxi monon emeis, ofeilei na antidrasei olos o politikos kosmos. Ofeiloyn na antidrasoyn oloi oi dhmosiografoi poy sebontai to leitoyrghma toys. Ofeiloyn na antidrasoyn oloi oi pneymatikoi anqrwpoi poy telika den qeloyn na doyn th xwra na ypobaqmizetai me ayton ton tropo. Kai pisteyw oti oi epishmanseis poy ekane xqes o Proedros ths Dhmokratias, ekfrazontas ayto to aisqhma toy ellhnikoy laoy, einai idiaitera shmantikes.

IWANNOY: Epeidh genikeysate ta osa eipate gia ta MME, mhpws qelete na ginetai ligo pio sygkekrimenos; Giati, etsi opws ta eipate, einai mia genikh topoqethsh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Apo thn arxh eipa oti den qelw na xrhsimopoiw akomh sygkekrimenes anafores, giati qa anagkastoyme na to kanoyme, opws katalabainete. Alla, apo ekei kai pera, einai safes oti oloi exoyme matia kai blepoyme. Bebaiws, loipon, den ennow oyte ola ta MME, oyte oloys toys dhmosiografoys. Isa-isa, poy pisteyw oti sthn pleiochfia toys oi dhmosiografoi sebontai to leitoyrghma kai to rolo toys.

LAMCIAS: Otan lete "politiko-oikonomika symferonta" mporeite na mas peite ti akribws ennoeite; Den exoyn onomatepwnymo ta sygkekrimena symferonta;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ekana kapoies anafores, mexri twra, kai qelw na meinw se aytes. Einai arketes gia shmera.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Milhsate gia kataskeyasmena. H apofash toy k. Dry gi` ayta ta mhxanhmata, htan kataskeyasmenh; Thn ypografh toy efere.

PRWTOPAPAS: O k. Drys ejhghse pws akribws egine ayth h syzhthsh kai malista prin polla xronia. Apo o,ti gnwrizw, malista, den htan h prwth fora poy ginotan syzhthsh gia to idio qema. Eixan prohghqei kai alles se armodies epitropes. Alla, den einai mono ena qema. Anaferqhka kai ston tropo proetoimasias. H kataskeyh exei na kanei me ola ayta poy legontai, tis pompwdeis anafores, ta xartia poy koynioyntai, tis proanaggelies oti erxontai oi enoxoi. Kapoia stigmh prepei, telika, na thrhsoyme kai toys stoixeiwdeis kanones deontologias. Kapoia stigmh prepei na skefqoyme oti to arqro 15 toy Syntagmatos epiballei sta hlektronika MME na sebontai ton paragonta anqrwpo kai thn ajioprepeia toy. Qelw, malista, na shmeiwsw pws oyte kan eixe mpei kaneis ston kopo na kanei mia stoixeiwdh deontologikh kinhsh, na parei dhladh thlefwno ton k. Dry gi` ayto to qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ton phran thlefwno kai den ebgaine. Ayto akoysa.

PRWTOPAPAS: O k. Drys den to gnwrize. Peran aytoy, omws, apodeixqhke oti olh ayth h istoria, toso gia ton k. Dry, oso kai gia ton k. Argyrh, eixe na kanei me kapoia sygkekrimena pragmatika peristatika, opws emfanizontan. Qa mporoyse kapoios, ean eixe kapoio erwthma, na to qesei. Einai, omws, diaforetiko na qeteis to erwthma kai diaforetiko na proanaggelleis "megalh sygklonistikh apokalych, eyreqh o shmerinos enoxos". Den gnwrizw ean ayta ta zhthmata exoyn na kanoyn me kakws ennooymeno antagwnismo h me otidhpote allo. Ekeino poy gnwrizoyme einai oti eimaste ypoxrewmenoi, pleon, na antidrasoyme. Einai dynato na dhmioyrghqei mia zoferh eikona shchs poy einai se baros ths xwras kai ths koinwnias kai epixeirei na poinikopoihsei thn politikh zwh, h opoia den wfelei kanenan; An kapoios exei stoixeia -epanalambanw- exei thn ypoxrewsh na ta anaferei dhmosiws, na ta dwsei kai ston eisaggelea. Kaneis den leei na mhn to kanei. Alla, einai diaforetiko ayto kai diaforetiko to shrial poy oxi mono blepoyme na ejelissetai aytes tis hmeres, alla kai poy proanaggelletai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Htan kataskeyasmenh h fwtografia toy k. Pasxalidh me ton k. Tekteridh; Mhpws htan montaz;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den gyrizoyme se dhlwseis prohgoymenwn hmerwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati den katonomazete ayta ta oikonomika symferonta poy qeloyn na sas gkremisoyn; Ayto leei o Prwqypoyrgos.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den eipa oti qeloyn na mas gkremisoyn. O Prwqypoyrgos eipe ayta poy eipe. Apo ekei kai pera, ekana kapoies genikoteres anafores poy exoyn na kanoyn me thn emfanish olhs ayths ths eikonas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai o Proedros ths Dhmokratias milhse gia atmosfaira dyswdias poy kalyptei thn politikh zwh toy topoy.

PRWTOPAPAS: Na diabasete kala tis dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Eipate oti h pleiochfia twn MME exei krathsei mia kalh stash, ektos apo dyo kanalia. H erwthsh moy einai, giati tosos panikos sthn kybernhsh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yparxei kanenas panikos sthn kybernhsh, alla yparxei h anagkh, dioti, th mia hmera blepoyme to ena, thn allh to allo. H katastash ayth, sto plaisio toy antagwnismoy, arxizei kai epekteinetai. O antagwnismos ginetai o Qeos ths ypoqeshs. Caxnoyn na broyn to qyma ths hmeras.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Eipate prin apo ligo oti eimaste ypoxrewmenoi na antidrasoyme. Me poio tropo qa antidrasete;

PRWTOPAPAS: Me poion tropo mporoyme na antidrasoyme, pera apo tis politikes anafores; Den pisteyw oti yparxei allos tropos antidrashs. Kaqenas poy qigetai, exei kai ta atomika dikaiwmata ths antidrashs toy. Den qa toy ypodeijoyme emeis poia qa einai. Emeis, ws kybernhsh kai ws komma, probainoyme se politikes antidraseis. Kai h shmerinh antidrash einai politikh.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Pisw apo ayth thn kinhsh poy ginetai mesw orismenwn MME, blepete kapoies politikes dynameis poy ta ypokinoyn; Giati, eipate prohgoymenws oti qeloyn na ejyphrethsoyn politika symferonta.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den onomasa kanenan. Einai, omws, safes oti otan kapoios qelei kaqe mera na bgazei kai ena ypoyrgo, dhqen enoxo, apo ekei kai pera kanei kai mia politikh prajh.

KARAGIANNH: Me bash tis mexri stigmhs anakoinwseis sas, yparxoyn dyo dedomena. To prwton einai, oti h pleiochfia twn MME kanei kala th doyleia ths, threi toys oroys deontologias kai einai ajiopisth kai sobarh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Na mhn katadikazoyme kanena MME, giati den exoyme tetoia proqesh. Piqanon se kapoio MME na yparxei kapoia ejairesh. Yparxei kai to qema ths atomikhs eyqynhs. Alla, h prosklhsh kai oi anafores mas pros ta MME exoyn na kanoyn me to na mhn perasei mia eikona oti anaferomaste syllhbdhn se oloys, alla se sygkekrimenes energeies kai prajeis. Kai anaferomai kyriws sta radiothleoptika Mesa. Einai safes.

KARAGIANNH: To prwto dedomeno einai ayth h eikona ths pleiochfias twn MME apo thn opoia h kybernhsh den fainetai na exei problhmata h na mporei na askhsei kritikh gia mh thrhsh orwn deontologias. To deytero dedomeno twn anakoinwsewn sas, einai oti h kybernhsh qewrei oti kanei poly kala th doyleia ths. O Prwqypoyrgos milhse gia ena ergo poy brisketai se plhrh ylopoihsh, epibrabeyetai apo ton ellhniko lao kai to opoio mhdenizetai apo mia mallon astoxh kai mhdenistikh kritikh. To erwthma moy einai, efoson yparxoyn ayta ta dyo basika dedomena, gia poio logo mia meiochfia, eite ayth afora oikonomikoys paragontes, epixeirhmatikoys paragontes, eite MME, mporoyn na amayrwsoyn thn eikona ths xwras kai na dhmioyrghsoyn ena omixlwdes topio.

PRWTOPAPAS: Kat` arxas, exete diastreblwsei se polla shmeia -aqela sas, bebaiws, dioti den exete parei kai to keimeno kai dikaiologeiste apolytws- tis sxetikes anafores toy Prwqypoyrgoy, poy sas diabasa. Ontws, o Prwqypoyrgos eipe oti askeitai mia mhdenistikh kritikh. Diogkwnontai sto epakro arnhtika fainomena, periorismenhs shmasias, ws pros thn poreia ths xwras. Perigrafontai -kai malista me kaqe glafyrothta- dhqen adiejoda gia th mellontikh poreia mas. Sth synexeia, omws, o Prwqypoyrgos eipe oti den yparxoyn eykoloi dromoi sthn epoxh mas. Einai mia epoxh me proklhseis kai problhmata poy den afhnei periqwria gia elafrothta. Gia na mporesoyme na kinhqoyme kai na antimetwpisoyme ta problhmata, kanoyme mia poly megalh prospaqeia. Kaneis den mporei na arnhqei oti ola ayta ta xronia yphrjan sobara epiteygmata apo ton ellhniko lao. Problhmata yparxoyn kai einai polla. Prin apo ligo, anaferqhka sto qema toy diktyoy gia th ftwxeia kai ton koinwniko apokleismo. Gia na dhmioyrgoyme diktyo shmainei oti yparxei ftwxeia kai koinwnikos apokleismos sthn Ellada. Den kaneis kati sto keno. Ginontai prospaqeies na antimetwpistoyn ayta ta problhmata. Epishs, o Prwqypoyrgos tonise oti kaneis den parasyretai apo paramorfwtikoys fakoys kai streblwmenes eikones poy syxna exoyn thn phgh toys se profaneis skopimothtes.

KARAGIANNH: Sas ekana sygkekrimenh erwthsh -kai an qelete mporw na thn epanalabw- alla den phra sygkekrimenh apanthsh. Exw krathsei mia frash sas poy milate gia "qhriotrofeio ths hmeras". Kai egw, epanalambanontas thn erwthsh moy. Sas rwtw, h meiochfia kapoiwn MME h endexomenws kapoiwn oikonomikwn h epixeirhmatikwn symferontwn poy briskontai pisw apo ola ayta, mporei na amayrwsoyn ena klima sthn politikh zwh, na dhmioyrghsoyn omixlwdes topio, efoson ola ta alla bainoyn kalws;

PRWTOPAPAS: Olo ayto ton kairo den prosejate oti mia istoria, h opoia jekinhse apo enan, epektaqhke sth synexeia; Einai safes oti kapoioi alloi niwqoyn thn anagkh na kanoyn antagwnismo me ta idia mesa, me toys idioys tropoys kai tis idies meqodoys. Anagkazomaste, loipon, na topoqethqoyme pio synolika. Den exoyme kamia proqesh na eimaste amyntikoi kai na apantame kaqe fora stis epiqeseis ths hmeras. Den exoyme tipota na krycoyme. Dioti einai safes oti qa yparxoyn kaqe mera epiqeseis. Exoyn proanaggelqei kai to jeroyme oloi ayto.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Epeidh anaferqhkate se ola ayta, fantazomai oti h kybernhsh den aifnidiasthke me to na mila shmera gia to "qhriotrofeio ths hmeras", oyte ayto htan ena fainomeno poy emfanisthke ws keraynos en aiqria. H kybernhsh exei kanei thn aytokritikh ths; Pws fqasame se ayto to shmeio poy kataggellei shmera, ti exei kanei h idia kai poies einai oi eyqynes ths;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kaqe kybernhsh, otan kyberna, exei tis eyqynes ths. Bebaiws, qa dexqoyme kritikh gia opoiodhpote qema exoyme kanei laqos kai o rolos sas einai na mas kanete kritikh.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den akoysame, omws, na mas peite gia kapoio laqos.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eseis krinete, eseis apeyqynete tis erwthseis kai egw sas apantw. Den jekinw apo mono moy na kanw omologia pleonekthmatwn h meionekthmatwn. An se kapoio shmeio moy peite oti exoyme swsta h laqos kai ti pisteyw, mporw na sas apanthsw. Ekeino, omws, poy lew einai oti yparxoyn tropoi na kaneis thn kritikh soy. Kai yparxoyn tropoi poy den einai kritikh pia, einai kati diaforetiko. Den jerw, ean qewreite oti ola ayta poy parakoloyqoyme aytes tis hmeres, aforoyn apla mia kritikh.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den fqasame, omws, jafnika. Eixame kapoia shmadia, toso kairo. H kybernhsh, loipon, ti ekane gia na prolabei ayta ta gegonota;

PRWTOPAPAS: Otan h kybernhsh diapistwnei problhmata -giati tonisa oti yparxoyn problhmata- einai fysiko oti pairnei ta metra ths. Mporei na yparxoyn adynamies se orismena qemata, tis opoies diorqwnoyme. Kai otan mas zhtate na diorqwsoyme mia adynamia, den leitoyrgoyme se ayta me th logikh ths apolyths alhqeias. Eyaisqhtopoioymaste, lambanoyme tis apofaseis mas kai eimaste anoiktoi apenanti sto lao. Anagnwrizoyme kai diorqwnoyme ta problhmata. Mia apofash poy labame shmera kai exei anakoinwsei o k. Skandalidhs, erxetai na diorqwsei problhmata. Dioti, sto qema toy paignioy, toy legomenoy paranomoy tzogoy, yphrxan problhmata ta opoia melethsame poly prosektika. Dioti yphrxan kai polles apoceis, oles bebaia sthn kateyqynsh antimetwpishs ths paranomias, alla apo diaforetikes optikes kai problhmatismoys. Yphrje poly kalh proetoimasia. Pragmatopoihqhkan syskeceis synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn. Mphkan ta pragmata katw, ejetasame enallaktikes lyseis kai telika katalhjame "me to xeri sthn kardia" se mia poly shmantikh kai aysthrh protash. Mia protash poy apanta peistika sto qema toy paranomoy tzogoy.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Mexri twra, otan o Proedros ths Dhmokratias ekane dhlwseis, kata pagia taktikh sas legate oti den sxoliazete tis dhlwseis toy. Shmera, akoysame na anafereste stis xqesines dhlwseis toy k. Stefanopoyloy. O k. Stefanopoylos, omws, metajy allwn, ekane kai mia anafora, legontas oti h xwra qa proxwrhsei mprosta opoiadhpote ki an einai h kybernhsh poy qa prokycei apo tis epomenes ekloges. Epeidh qewrw akrws politikh ayth th dhlwsh toy, mporw na exw to sxolio sas;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ekana mia anafora sto pws o Proedros ths Dhmokratias, opws panta, ekfrazei to aisqhma toy ellhnikoy laoy. Kai emeina mono, mexris ekei. Bebaiws, opws gnwrizete, otan exoyme ekloges, ta politika kommata paroysiazoyn to programma toys, kanoyn thn kritikh toys to ena sto allo, yperaspizoyn tis apoceis toys, emfanizoyn ston ellhniko lao ta pleonekthmata ths dikhs toys apochs kai ta meionekthmata ths politikhs ths allhs pleyras kai o laos krinei. Se ayta ta qemata poy sxetizontai me th leitoyrgia ths Dhmokratias mas, exoyme tis apoceis mas poy gnwrizete poly kala. Den xreiazetai na tis epanalabw, twra.

IWANNOY: Eipate oti epixeireitai na dhmioyrghqoyn h na kataskeyastoyn enoxoi kai epishs eipate xarakthristika oti kapoioi, isws qelhsoyn me ton antagwnismo ayrio na kanoyn to idio. Akomh, eipate oti blepoyme oloi kai akoyme poioi einai. Efoson gnwrizete, loipon, poies einai oi sygkekrimenes periptwseis, giati den anafereste se aytes kai enoxopoieite kata kapoio tropo ola ta MME, poy ayrio, endexomenws, ws reportaz qa baloyn kati allo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Moy zhthsate dieykrinish. Edw kai eikosi lepta sas dieykrinisa ti ennooysa. Exete ki eseis kalh gnwsh ths thleoptikhs pragmatikothtas, opws exoyn kai oloi oi synadelfoi sas. Xreiazeste sygkekrimenes epipleon anafores;

IWANNOY: Eipate oti oloi blepoyme kai oloi jeroyme. Gi ayto to lew.

PRWTOPAPAS: Akribws. Symfwnw apolyta mazi sas.

IWANNOY: Gia thn apofash poy phrate shmera, mporeite na mas ejhghsete ean h katarghsh olwn twn texnikwn paixnidiwn, opws eipate, afora kai ayta ta paidika, ta cyxagwgika, ta @PAKMAN@, ola ta mhxanhmata;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den eimai eidikos sta paixnidia. Afora pantws kaqe hlektroniko paixnidi, to opoio einai egkatesthmeno se aytoys, alla kai se alloys xwroys, opws ta jenodoxeia h se allo dhmosio xwro.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Ennoeite kai ta kazino;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. Ta kazino ta ejairoyme, dioti exoyn eidikh adeia gia tyxera paixnidia. Ekei poy ginotan h paranomia den eixan eidikh adeia. Ta tyxera paixnidia apagoreyontan, o tzogos htan paranomos. Se kapoioys xwroys yphrxan texnika paixnidia -gia ta opoia h adeia htan sxetika eykolo na doqei- ta opoia me hlektronikes tropopoihseis eite me tsip, eite me alloys tropoys, metatrepontan, eite sth diarkeia olhs ths hmeras, eite kapoies sygkekrimenes wres, se tyxera. Ektimhsame oti katw apo tis shmerines synqhkes htan para poly dyskolo na elegjoyme apolyta aysthra xiliades mhxanhmata, poy yparxoyn. Odhghqhkame etsi se mia apofash poy dinei safes stigma: Apagoreysh twn hlektronikwn paixnidiwn.

IWANNOY: Me tis adeies apofasisate ti qa ginei; Osoi exoyn nomimh adeia qa prosfygoyn sta Dikasthria. Ejetasate aytes tis periptwseis;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kaqe Ellhnas poliths exei dikaiwma kai enanti ths politeias. Ta qemata ayta den aforoyn th dikh mas ejoysia, poy einai h ektelestikh.

PAPPA: Qa hqela na mas peite ean kata th diarkeia ths synedriashs ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, egine anafora sto qema ths diwjhs toy k. Kokkalh. Kai ean yphrje kapoia politikh proseggish;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den egine kamia anafora se ayto to qema. To qema ayto den afora thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Einai qema ths Dikaiosynhs.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Mia dieykrinish: Otan lete ola ta hlektronika paixnidia, ti ennoeite; Giati yparxoyn kapoia katasthmata poy leitoyrgoyn ws KAFE kai diaqetoyn 10, 20,30 hlektronika mhxanhmata, ta opoia den exoyn kamia sxesh me ta legomena ``froytakia''. Kai ennow kapoia paixnidia me qema to aytokinhto, to mpasket k.lp. Ayta qa apagoreyqoyn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ola ta hlektronika paixnidia qa apagoreyqoyn.

KOYIN: Ayth h apofash ths kybernhshs exei basistei se oles tis parametroys kai einai symfwnh me thn eyrwpaikh nomoqesia; Dhladh, apeyqynqhke sta armodia organa gia na ejetasei, ean parabiazetai kapoia eyrwpaikh nomoqesia, me to na apagoreyqei plhrws h xrhsh twn hlektronikwn paixnidiwn se katasthmata olhs ths xwras;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ola exoyn lhfqei ypoch. Opws gnwrizete exei ginei eidikh syskech olwn twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn, sthn opoia symmeteixan oi ypoyrgoi Dikaiosynhs, Dhmosias Tajhs, Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, Eswterikwn. Bebaiws, ejetasthkan oles oi pleyres toy zhthmatos. Katalabainete oti kaneis den mporei na apagoreysei se enan Ellhna polith, basei twn diatajewn toy Syntagmatos twn nomwn, alla kai ths nomoqesias ths E.E. na ekfrasei kapoia antirrhsh stis qeseis ths politeias. Qeloyme, omws, na katalabete to stigma ths apofashs mas, to opoio einai safes. Qeloyme na mhn yparxei paranomos tzogos sthn Ellada. Kai epeidh ektimhqhke oti oi dynatothtes einai tetoies poy qa mporoyse kapoios, exontas ena texniko mhxanhma sto katasthma toy, kapoia stigmh na kanei parembash -h opoia ginetai me poly eykolo tropo- kai na to metatrecei se tyxero paixnidi, phrame ayth thn apofash, gnwrizontas tis dyskolies poy qa prokycoyn, prokeimenoy na ginei syneidhsh, ti akribws epidiwkoyme na prajoyme.

KOYIN: Giati anafereste synexeia sth lejh ``texniko paixnidi'' kai oxi hlektroniko paixnidi;

PRWTOPAPAS: Olh h syzhthsh ginetai gia ta hlektronika paixnidia. To mpiliardo, poy prin apo ligo anefere enas synadelfos sas, den einai hlektroniko paixnidi, einai safes.

MOYRTZHS: Den antilambanomai giati entassetai thn poltopoihsh proswpikothtwn stis thleoptikes arenes, sto ``qhriotrofeio ths hmeras'', opws to xarakthrisate, se kapoia skopimothta antagwnismoy h oikonomikwn symferontwn. Giati to entassete etsi;

PRWTOPAPAS: Exw apanthsei kai hmoyn safhs. Eipa h antagwnismoy h akomh kai skopimothtwn, poy exoyn na kanoyn me symferonta. Dioti yparxei kai o kakws ennooymenos antagwnismos.

ARGYROS: H apofash poy eipate gia ta ``froytakia'' qa xreiastei nomoqetikh ryqmish..

PRWTOPAPAS: Na mhn epanalaboyme th lejh ``froytakia''. Qa milame gia tyxera paixnidia.

ARGYROS: Pote qa erqei nomoqetikh ryqmish sth Boylh kai ti allo qa perilambanei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qelw na sas pw oti ta tyxera paixnidia -gia ta hlektronika kanoyme syzhthsh, alla, bebaiws kai ta alla- htan hdh apagoreymena. Den epitrepotan sthn Ellada na yparxei tyxero hlektroniko paixnidi. Kai to lew ayto gia na antilhfqeite kalytera ti ennow. Ektimhqhke, omws, oti ean periorizomastan se aysthroteres poines, epekteinontas thn yparxoysa nomoqesia me epibolh poinwn sthn paranomh dhmioyrgia kai xrhsh texnikwn paixnidiwn, piqano na dhmioyrgoyntan, me tis dynatothtes poy dinei h texnologia, kapoia ``paraqyra'' na epanalhfqoyn kai sto mellon tetoia fainomena. Gia na periorisoyme kaqe dynatothta kai prooptikh na mhn emfanistoyn paromoia fainomena, phrame ayth thn apofash, kanena hlektroniko paixnidi se dhmosio xwro.

KARAGIANNH: Ean qymamai kala, sthn prwth syskech poy eixe pragmatopoihqei ypo ton Prwqypoyrgo gia to qema toy paranomoy tzogoy, eixe symperilhfqei sthn atzenta to qema ths diafqoras genikotera, mhde ejairoymenhs kai ths diafqoras poy emfanizetai sto dhmosio tomea. Qa hqela na rwthsw ean sth shmerinh synedriash toy kybernhtikoy organoy, pera apo to zhthma me ton paranomo tzogo, yphrxan protaseis h apofaseis gia thn prolhch kai antimetwpish ths diafqoras se genikotero plaisio;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai swsth h erwthsh sas. Eidika gi ayto to qema ginetai mia kalh proetoimasia, h opoia brisketai se ejelijh. Eixame qesei ayto to qema se genikotero plaisio. Omws, dhmioyrghqhkan erwthmata ston ellhniko lao. Epishmaname adynamies ston tomea ayto kai -opws sas eipa- epeidh frontizoyme na jepername tis adynamies kai na briskoyme lyseis, me th shmerinh apofash mas ayto prajame. Dwsame lysh kai sto problhma ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ean aytoi, opws toys eipate, paramorfwtikoys fakoys, den leitoyrgoysan...

PRWTOPAPAS: To sygkekrimeno den to eipa egw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: ...eipate, paramorfwtikh paroysiash twn pragmatwn. Qa eixate parei ayth thn apofash gia ton paranomo tzogo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Exei diafora na epishmaineis ta toy paranomoy tzogoy. Qa sas elega oti poly kala kanete kai to epishmainete kai qa dexqw apolyta thn kritikh sas kai th diafora poy epakoloyqhse. Loipon, gia to qema ths yparjhs paranomoy tzogoy sthn Ellada anagnwrisa oti yphrxe ena anoikto problhma kai oti ta mexri twra metra poy eixan lhfqei -giati eixame parei metra- den eparkoysan. Gi ayto phrame kai prosqeta metra. Telika den einai kako, otan diapistwnetai ena problhma, na erxetai h kybernhsh me eyaisqhsia kai me apofasistika metra, na to qerapeysei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poioys kathgoreite; Toys kathgoreite, omws, aytoys..

PRWTOPAPAS: Gia alloys logoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Twra poy phrate ki ayth thn apofash, h poinh toy Xrysanqakopoyloy qa arqei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ta metra, poy me apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy anakoinwqhkan, eixan ws aitio kai alla qemata, opws jerete. Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh ektimhqhke h olh symperifora enos stelexoys. Yphrjan kai alla qemata gia ta opoia den exw logo na anaferqw ayth th stigmh.

KANELLOPOYLOS: O k. Xrysanqakopoylos htan h aformh gia na fqasoyme se ayth thn ejygiansh. Den htan h aformh gia na ejygianqei to qema;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den anaferqhkame pote sto sygkekrimeno qema, alla se allo qema. Gnwrizete kala oti o k. Xrysanqakopoylos proebh kai se kapoies alles energeies. Ayto, omws, apotelei parelqon. Ayth th stigmh koitame mprosta.

KARGOYDH: Gia tis eisagwgikes epishmanseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy, qelw na rwthsw, epeidh analoges epishmanseis eixe kanei sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio poy eixe asxolhqei me to qema toy basikoy metoxoy. Malista, tote eixe eipwqei oti oi epishmanseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy ginontai me aformh orismena dhmosieymata. H kybernhsh ektima oti olh ayth h katastash eixe ws enaysma th dia nomoy katartish ths ennoias toy basikoy metoxoy kai twn sxesewn metajy politikhs ejoysias kai MME.

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, ayto einai ypoxrewsh poy aporreei apo to Syntagma. O orismos ths ennoias toy basikoy metoxoy kai toy asymbibastoy eixe prosdioristei apo persi to Maio.

KARGOYDH: Nai, alla twra ginetai nomos pia, ara qa yparjei efarmogh toy.

PRWTOPAPAS: Ginetai sto plaisio twn parembasewn mas kai gnwrizete oti mesa se ayto to plaisio entassontai kai qemata poy exoyn na kanoyn me tis adeies, thn anabaqmish toy roloy toy ESR kai ta qemata toy kwdika deontologias. Einai oi tesseris parembaseis sthn kateyqynsh ths nomimothtas, ths diafaneias kai ths poiothtas poy epaggellomaste. Apo kei kai pera, qa yparjoyn kai diaforetikes gnwmes apo orismenoys, alla o dialogos synexizetai. Kai den qelw ayth th stigmh na syndesw thn efarmogh aytoy toy nomoy me otidhpote allo.

KOYIN: Mia dieykrinistikh erwthsh gia thn apagoreysh: Pws qa thn perasei h kybernhsh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Me nomo poy qa feroyme syntoma sth Boylh.

KAPPOS: Den kataferame na sas apospasoyme onomata kai dieyqynseis gi ayto poy apokalesate ``antagwnistika, oikonomika symferonta'' . Na ypoqesoyme, loipon, efoson milhsate gia epomenoys gyroys, ayto poy to apokalesate ``qhriotrofeio'' oti ta onomata kai tis dieyqynseis ta kratate ws kryfoys assoys sto maniki kai pws qa probeite se kapoia ysterh stigmh h se stigmh poy qa krinete eseis katallhlh ws kybernhsh se pragmatikes apokalyceis;

PRWTOPAPAS: O,ti eixa na pw to eipa kai malista to epanelaba kai polles fores.

KAPPOS: O,ti eipate, to eipate gia shmera. Yparxei kapoia diafora.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exw na pw kati allo. Einai safes, omws, oti sth logikh ths prospaqeias, dhmioyrgias kai kataskeyhs enoxwn, se ayth th logikh qa apanthsoyme.

KAPPOS: Eixe allh logikh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti yparxei logikh prospaqeias dhmioyrgias enoxwn sthn opoia qa apanthsoyme. Ayto einai safes.

Sas eyxaristw.

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