Greek Government Press Briefing, 00-11-01

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 1 Noembrioy 2000

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas kai kalo mhna.

Shmera, sto ypoyrgiko symboylio syzhthsame gia ton Proypologismo kai ta epiteygmata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Anagnwristhke apo oloys h prospaqeia poy egine ta prohgoymena xronia, h opoia odhghse se ayta ta poly shmantika apotelesmata: Na exoyme enan Proypologismo, meta apo 35 xronia, o opoios einai pleonasmatikos, wste na mporoyme etsi na antimetwpizoyme afenos tis oikonomikes ypoxrewseis ths xwras apo prohgoymena xronia kai afeteroy na enisxyoyme programmata koinwnikhs politikhs. Kai bebaiws na enisxysoyme to anaptyjiako programma, wste h Ellada, ta epomena xronia, na breqei se ena poly kalytero kai antagwnistiko epipedo.

Ayto to opoio ajizei na tonisw einai oti apofasisthke na doqei to epidoma qermanshs se 1.780.000 sympolites mas. Aytos einai o akribhs ariqmos twn dikaioyxwn. Afora, kyriws, aytoys poy einai syntajioyxoi toy OGA, poy pairnoyn to Epidoma Koinwnikhs Allhleggyhs (EKAS), poy einai xamhloeisodhmaties kai to kratos anelabe na toys dwsei to 10xiliaro ths asfalistikhs eisforas toys kai, bebaiws, afora mia megalh kathgoria sympolitwn mas poy einai makroxronia anergoi. Ayto to anaferw giati se polles oikogeneies einai piqanon kai ta dyo melh, andras kai gynaika, na laboyn to epidoma, poy shmainei oti gia ena noikokyrio diplasiazetai aytomatws to poso. Gi ayto kai monon to anaferw. Otan miloyme gi ayth thn kathgoria, miloyme gia polites, den miloyme gia noikokyria.

Ayto to opoio ajizei, epishs, na anaferw einai oti o ryqmos anaptyjhs gia to epomeno etos problepetai na kinhqei sto epipedo toy 5%, dhladh se poly ychla epipeda, sygkrinomenos me ayta poy exoyn epityxei alles xwres ths Eyrwphs. O plhqwrismos qa kinhqei se ena epipedo 2,3%. Oi dhmosies kai idiwtikes ependyseis problepetai na ayjhqoyn ton epomeno xrono se pososto 11,7%, pososto para poly ychlo. H ayjhsh ths paragwgikothtas qa diamorfwqei se pososto 3,5%. Ola ayta ta anaferw endeiktika gia na tonisw gia mia akomh fora oti o Proypologismos aytos, o prwtos ths entos ONE Elladas, einai h apodeijh ths epityxhmenhs politikhs poy askhsame ta prohgoymena xronia kai h afethria gia mia anaptyjiakh, koinwnikh politikh, h opoia qa beltiwsei to epipedo zwhs olwn twn Ellhnwn, ta epomena xronia, gia mia pio anaptygmenh kai pio isxyrh Ellada, gia mia pio isxyrh koinwnia.

H megalyterh ayjhsh dapanwn problepetai gia to ypoyrgeio Ergasias kai Koinwnikwn Asfalisewn kai ftanei to 8,5%, poly panw apo ton plhqwrismo. Akoloyqei to ypoyrgeio Paideias me 8,3%, opws epishs sto 8,3% kinoyntai oi dapanes gia to ypoyrgeio Ygeias. Akoloyqoyn to ypoyrgeio Gewrgias, to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas kai alla. Ta eji prwta ypoyrgeia problepetai oti qa dapanhsoyn ton epomeno xrono, symfwna me ta megeqh toy Proypologismoy, 5,5 tris. draxmes, gia thn efarmogh ths politikhs toys.

Epishs, h ayjhsh twn esodwn egine katorqwth, xwris na proxwrhsoyme se epibolh newn forwn. Antiqetws, eixame foroelafrynseis. Ayth thn tash thn akoloyqoyme kai sto plaisio toy neoy Proypologismoy. Qymizw mono @kai se ayto periorizomai- oti prin apo dyo xronia to aforologhto orio htan sto ena ekatommyrio gia mia kathgoria sympolitwn mas, enw twra ftanei sta 2.100.000 draxmes. Gia mia allh kathgoria htan sto 1.300.000 draxmes kai twra ftanei sta 2.400.000 draxmes. H allagh einai qeamatikh. Se orismenes periptwseis, analogws twn oikogeneiakwn barwn, toy ariqmoy twn paidiwn k.tl., to aforologhto orio jeperna ta 4 ekatommyria h kai ta 7 ekatommyria, se orismenes periptwseis. Ta stoixeia ayta exoyn thn ajia toys, giati mporei na kanete aytomatws th sygkrish, ti synebaine prin apo dyo xronia kai se poio epipedo kinoymaste shmera.

O Prwqypoyrgos, kleinontas th synedriash, ekane mia politikh epishmansh, oson afora toys stoxoys poy exei qesei h kybernhsh. Apanthse etsi eyqews stis kritikes poy askoyntai apo diafores pleyres peri dhqen amhxanias ths kybernhshs kai adynamias ths na xeiristei ta qemata apotelesmatika, kata thn periodo ayth. O Prwqypoyrgos tonise oti h kybernhsh exei qesei sygkekrimenoys stoxoys, toys opoioys epidiwkei kai epitygxanei. Oxi mono den brisketai se amhxania, alla opws apodeiknyei o sygkekrimenos Proypologismos, exei katorqwsei na dhmioyrghsei mia isxyrh oikonomia kai na qesei tis baseis mias synexoys anaptyjiakhs diadikasias. Giati, mesa apo enan tetoio Proypologismo einai fanero oti h Ellada enisxyetai. Enisxyetai h qesh ths dieqnws, isxyropoieitai h ellhnikh koinwnia. Anaferqhke, akribws, sto oti qa prepei na kerdisoyme to politiko stoixhma, otan erqei h wra na mas krinei kai pali o laos, meta apo triamisi xronia. Anaferqhke, endeiktika, se orismena megeqh toy Proypologismoy, legontas oti h anaptyjh se pososto 5% shmainei megalytero eisodhma gia toys polites kai ayjhmeno pososto apasxolhshs. Anaferqhke sthn koinwnikh eyaisqhsia poy deixnei h kybernhsh, me seira metrwn poy lambanei sto plaisio kai aytoy toy Proypologismoy. Kai ayto, opws sas eipa, apodeiknyetai apo tis proteraiothtes twn dapanwn, opws apofasisame gia sygkekrimena ypoyrgeia, opws epishs kai apo to sygkekrimeno epidoma qermanshs poy einai prwtofanes gia ta eyrwpaika dedomena. Asfalws, eipe o Prwqypoyrgos, den efhsyxazoyme. Pantote briskomaste apenanti se mia proklhsh kai gi ayto akribws enteinoyme thn prospaqeia mas gia na epityxoyme akomh megalyterh apotelesmatikothta. Giati, prepei oi apofaseis poy pairnoyme, ta epiteygmata poy mexri twra exoyme shmeiwsei, na metafrastoyn se tetoio ergo, wste na to antilhfqei sthn kaqhmerinh zwh toy o kaqe poliths, giati gia to ergo ayto qa mas krinei.

O Prwqypoyrgos anaferqhke kai pali sth logikh poy diepei th leitoyrgia oswn askoyn kritikh, th leitoyrgia twn MME kai allwn paragontwn, legontas oti diaxeirizontai to efhmero, to entypwsiako, enw h kybernhsh sxediazei kai efarmozei mia politikh me prooptikh, se baqos xronoy. Kai tonise oti h kybernhsh qa prepei na krinetai apo ta apotelesmata ths politikhs ths kai oxi me bash tis entypwseis poy exoyn syxna ena efhmero xarakthra. Kai katelhje, epishmainontas kai pali, oti me thn politikh ayth dhmioyrgoyme mia pio anaptygmenh oikonomia, mia pio isxyrh koinwnia. Den prepei na meinoyme sto telma poy kapoioi isws mas qeloyn kaqhlwmenoys, ws xwra h ws koinwnia. Eimaste etoimoi na antiparateqoyme kai na sygkroystoyme me fainomena h mhxanismoys poy qeloyn thn Ellada na meinei pisw. Ayto poy einai jekaqaro gia mas, ypogrammise o Prwqypoyrgos, einai oti o Proypologismos aytos apotelei ena poly shmantiko ``ergaleio'' gia na petyxoyme toys stoxoys poy ejaggeilame stis ekloges, otan mas timhse me thn chfo toy o ellhnikos laos. Me thn ylopoihsh, thn ektelesh aytoy toy Proypologismoy, kaqws kai twn epomenwn poy qa akoloyqhsoyn kai poy qa kinoyntai se ayto to anaptyjiako plaisio kai qa exoyn ayto to xrwma koinwnikhs eyaisqhsias kai allhleggyhs, qa petyxoyme na feroyme se peras to ergo poy mas aneqese o ellhnikos laos.

Sth shmerinh synedriash toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy apofasisthke h topoqethsh toy prwhn nomarxh Ebroy-Rodophs Giannh Nikolaidh sthn kenh qesh toy Genikoy Grammatea Perifereias Dytikhs Makedonias. Epishs, epelegh o k. Gr. Krompas, o opoios kalyptei thn kenh qesh toy antiproedroy toy Nomikoy Symboylioy toy Kratoys.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

MIXAHL: O k. Shmiths mas eipate oti eipe pws h kybernhsh sxediazei makroproqesma kai den qelei na krathsei th xwra se telma, oti kai mesa apo ton Proypologismo qelei opwsdhpote na to jeperasei ayto kai einai diateqeimenh na sygkroystei me fainomena poy qeloyn thn Ellada pisw. Eixe sto noy toy tis antidraseis poy proklhqhkan gia to an qa eprepe na shkwsei th shmaia o mikros Albanos;

REPPAS: Antilambaneste oti kanenas den mporei na apanthsei sthn erwthsh sas ``ti eixe o Prwqypoyrgos sto noy toy''. Ara, loipon, nomizw pws den prepei na perimenete apanthsh.

MIXAHL: Oi katoikoi ths Neas Mhxaniwnas apeiloyn me mhnyseis ton k. Pagkalo gia osa eipe se baros toys. Ti leei h kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Kaqe poliths exei dikaiwma na xrhsimopoiei ta endika mesa poy exei sth diaqesh toy. Ayto einai kanonas se mia dhmokratikh politeia. O k. Pagkalos omws @opws oloi gnwrizete kai opws qa diapistwsoyn oloi osoi ejetasoyn ayto to opoio akribws eipe- kaqe allo, para strafhke enantion twn katoikwn ths Neas Mhxaniwnas. Antiqetws, eipe oti exei episkefqei thn perioxh, oti tima toys katoikoys ths kai gnwrizei oti den mporei na ekfrazontai apo peristatika sta opoia ekdhlwnetai bia h mia stash orismenwn poy den exei sxesh me thn politismenh stash twn politwn mias xwras, opws einai h Ellada, me ayth thn istoria kai ayth thn paradosh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mporeite na mas peite ti periexei ayth h mystikh symfwnia poy ypegrace o k. Papandreoy me ton Toyrko omologo toy Ismahl Tzem;

REPPAS: Den yparxei kamia mystikh symfwnia. Den ypografhke kamia mystikh symfwnia. Exei ekdoqei sxetiko anakoinwqen kai gnwrizete poly kala oti to qema poy afora ta Metra Oikodomhshs Empistosynhs (MOE) syzhteitai, edw kai poly kairo, sto plaisio toy NATO metajy twn antiproswpwn twn dyo xwrwn. Gnwrizete epishs oti exei ginei syzhthsh metajy twn dyo xwrwn, mesw yphresiakwn paragontwn, gia alla qemata ths legomenhs ``xamhlhs politikhs'' kai exoyn prokycei symfwnies. Ayto poy egine einai mia kat arxhn symfwnia na tajinomhqoyn se dyo kathgories qemata poy aforoyn thn proseggish twn dyo xwrwn. Qemata ta opoia exoyn sxesh me stratiwtika, me epixeirhsiaka zhthmata syzhtoyntai sto plaisio toy NATO, opws synebaine mexri twra. Den prokyptei se ayto tipota kainoyrgio. Qemata ta opoia aforoyn qesmika, politika kai stratiwtika, alla oxi epixeirhsiaka zhthmata h draseis, mporei na proseggistoyn mesw yphresiakwn paragontwn twn dyo xwrwn pros thn kateyqynsh na epidiwxqei ejomalynsh twn sxesewn. Den yparxei, loipon, ypografh opoiasdhpote symfwnias. Den yparxei symfwnia epi ths oysias gia opoiodhpote qema. Ayto poy syzhthsan oi dyo ypoyrgoi einai o orismos enos plaisioy qematwn poy qa prepei na syzhthqoyn, opws ginotan mexri twra ypo thn aigida toy NATO kai enos plaisioy qematwn poy qa syzhthqoyn metajy twn politikwn dieyqyntwn twn ypoyrgeiwn Ejwterikwn twn dyo xwrwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den yparxoyn sygkekrimena epta shmeia sthn ypografh ayth, twn k. Papandreoy kai Tzem;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw oti den yparxei ypografh kai den yparxei symfwnia. Yparxoyn pente qemata ta opoia, me thn tajinomhsh poy egine, qewreitai oti prepei na syzhthqoyn ypo thn aigida toy NATO, pragma poy ginetai edw kai arketa xronia. Yparxoyn kai 12 qemata ta opoia mporei na apotelesoyn antikeimeno syzhthshs metajy twn politikwn dieyqyntwn twn dyo ypoyrgeiwn Ejwterikwn. Gia paradeigma h synergasia twn limenikwn arxwn gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn poy prokyptoyn apo to laqremporio kai th laqrometanasteysh einai ena apo ta qemata poy mporei na symbaloyn sthn oikodomhsh empistosynhs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati bghkan ejw oi Ellhnes diplwmates, afoy einai toso anoikta ta pragmata;

REPPAS: Kanonika den prepei na apanthsw sthn erwthsh sas, giati einai san na dexomai oti den prepei na empisteyomaste ton ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn ths xwras, o opoios -kata th dikh sas aparadekth antilhch- einai ypoptos gia kati kai ara qa prepei na parakaqontai oi alloi se mia tetoia synergasia, wste na yparxei -pali kata th dikh sas aparadekth apoch- mia asfalistikh dikleida gia th diasfalish twn symferontwn mas. Ayta, opws antilambaneste, den exoyn kamia sxesh me thn pragmatikothta kai sas parakalw na mh diatypwnete erwthseis me ayto ton tropo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mystikh diplwmatia einai ayto.

REPPAS: Einai poly synhqismeno na syzhtoyn oi politikoi hgetes, oi ypoyrgoi Ejwterikwn twn xwrwn, sto plaisio twn synanthsewn toys.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ston proypologismo den anaferetai poyqena to stoixeio oti, symfwna me dieqneis oikonomikoys kykloys, to dolario synexws qa ayjanetai. Ki otan ayjanetai to dolario, antilambaneste oti eimaste se mia poly dysxerh qesh sthn antimetwpish toy ejwterikoy xreoys. Pws qa ginoyn ayta me ayto to dedomeno, to opoio einai yparkto kai den einai ypoqetiko. Mesa se pente mhnes to dolario phge miamish fora panw kai antilambaneste poy efqase to dhmosio ejwteriko xreos.

REPPAS: H anodos ths timhs toy dolarioy, eytyxws gia th xwra mas, den exei ephreasei eyrytera thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Exei ephreasei thn timh twn kaysimwn eyqews kai bebaiws ephreazei kai to megeqos toy plhqwrismoy. H timh toy dolarioy ephreazei oles tis eyrwpaikes oikonomies, alles perissotero kai alles ligotero. Asfalws, epibarynei, qa elega, oson afora to dhmosio xreos, kyriws toys tokoys, thn apoplhrwmh twn opoiwn prepei na kanoyme. Ektimatai oti oi probleceis poy exoyn ginei, sto plaisio ths E.E., se o,ti afora to petrelaio gia timh 25 dolariwn to bareli, apoteloyn mia logikh bash gia na ektimhqoyn panw se ayth ola ta oikonomika stoixeia kai toy dikoy mas proypologismoy kai twn proypologismwn poy kanoyn oi alles xwres. H epibarynsh ayth, opws th qetete eseis, yparxei. Alla, exoyme th dynatothta, logw twn ayjhmenwn esodwn kai ths apotelesmatikothtas twn yphresiwn toy kratoys na patajoyn se ikanopoihtiko baqmo th forodiafygh -h opoia bebaiws peristelletai, alla yparxei akoma se megalo pososto- na odhghqoyme se ayta ta qetika oikonomika apotelesmata, wste na mporoyme na antimetwpisoyme ayta ta problhmata.

PAPADOPOYLOS: O k. Eyqymioy, xqes, an den kanw laqos, se dhlwseis toy eipe oti stoxeyete se mia ish antimetwpish olwn twn paragontwn sth dhmosia zwh. O k. Pasxalidhs giati den kalese kai ton Ellhna aristoyxo maqhth kai kalese mono ton Albano afenos kai afeteroy, exei ypoch toy osa exoyn dhmosieyqei eis baros toy patera aytoy toy paidioy;

REPPAS: Gia to qema ayto apanthsa, xqes. O k. Pasxalidhs, me th synoptikh dhlwsh toy, "prwta h Paideia", tima oloys toys aristoyxoys maqhtes, anejarthtws ths katagwghs toys.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Mhpws ola ayta poy symbainoyn sthn ellhno-toyrkikh proseggish einai h adynamia ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs na kalycei ayto to gewstrathgiko xwro toy Aigaioy kai ths Anatolikhs Mesogeioy kai gi` ayto blepoyme oloi mas, akribws, na eynoeitai h Toyrkia;

REPPAS: H Ellada oxi mono den dhlwnei adynamia na antapokriqei se ayto to rolo, isa- isa o prwtagwnistikos rolos ths, gia th staqerothta kai thn eirhnh sthn perioxh, einai dieqnws anagnwrismenos. Kai malista, molis prosfata, sth diaskech twn hgetwn twn balkanikwn kratwn sta Skopia -to anaferw, epeidh symmeteixa- htan xarakthristikh h qesh poy ejefrase o Eyrwpaios ajiwmatoyxos k. Hombach. Apeyqynomenos stoys hgetes twn allwn kratwn, eipe oti h Ellada, poy einai melos ths E.E., einai h hgetida dynamh ths perioxhs, poy dinei to paradeigma kai mporei na bohqhsei tis alles xwres sth proseggish toys stoys dytikoys qesmoys. Anagnwrizetai aytos o prwtagwnistikos rolos ths Elladas. Kai bebaiws, gnwrizete poly kala oti h Ellada einai mia xwra poy dapana polla xrhmata gia ta ejoplistika programmata. Mporoyme na poyme -ki eimaste eytyxeis gi` ayto- oti exoyme enisxysei qeamatika thn apotreptikh dynamh ths xwras mas. H katastash qa beltiwqei akomh perissotero, ta epomena xronia. Ayto, metajy twn allwn, to ofeiloyme sthn prospaqeia poy ekane h kybernhsh mazi me olo ton ellhniko lao gia na exoyme ayta ta qeamatika oikonomika apotelesmata kai na mporoyme na xrhmatodotoyme ejoplistika programmata. H Ellada exei ola ta mesa kai ta "ergaleia" -politika, diplwmatika, alla kai stratiwtika- gia na yperaspistei oxi mono ta eqnika symferonta kai ta kyriarxika dikaiwmata ths, alla kai gia na diadramatisei ki ayto ton prwtagwnistiko rolo se ayth thn pragmatika krisimh, apo gewstrathgikh apoch, perioxh.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ayta isxyrizomai ki egw. Den rwthsa ayta. Apo pleyras E.E. anagnwrizetai o kyriarxos rolos ths Elladas@

REPPAS: Apo oloys anagnwrizetai.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Apo thn Amerikh den jerw an anagnwrizetai;

REPPAS: Na rwthsete thn Amerikh.

KALARITHS: Sta pente metra, ta opoia exei paradexqei to NATO, symperilambanontai kai h diejagwgh koinwn askhsewn kai h pthsh mh ejoplismenwn aeroskafwn sto Aigaio;

REPPAS: Sas eipa kai pali oti polla qemata, me bash to gramma kai to pneyma toy legomenoy mnhmonioy Papoylia-Gilmaz, syzhtoyntai edw kai xronia, ypo thn aigida toy NATO. Ayth h syzhthsh synexizetai. Den prokyptei kati tetoio.

MPOYRDARAS: Mporeite na mas peite poso qa einai ayto to epidoma qermanshs poy qa doqei se 1.800.000 polites kai an yparxei apofash gia to xrono katabolhs aytoy toy epidomatos.

REPPAS: To epidoma ayto qa doqei se dyo doseis. H prwth qa doqei mazi me to dwro twn Xristoygennwn, ton erxomeno Dekembrh kai h deyterh to Febroyario toy 2001. To poso poy qa doqei qa einai diaforetiko, analogws ths perioxhs opoy zoyn oi katoikoi poy dikaioyntai na laboyn ayto to poso. Sth boreia Ellada, to poso qa einai 50.000 draxmes, gia kaqe polith. Sthn kentrikh Ellada, 40.000 draxmes kai sth notia Ellada, 30.000 draxmes. Prepei na pw -to eipa kai prin- oti se polles periptwseis to poso ayto, gia mia oikogeneia, qa to laboyn perissoteroi to enos.

Kai epeidh diapistwnw na yparxei mia antidrash, h opoia deixnei ypotimhsh pros thn ajia aytoy toy epidomatos, sas lew oti to poso ayto einai polles dekades disekatommyria draxmes. An synypologistei me tis foroelafrynseis, antilambaneste poses dekades disekatommyria dinei to Dhmosio stoys polites. Exoyme ena paketo poy jeperna ta 400 dis. draxmes kai to opoio mporei na pei kaneis oti einai ikanopoihtiko gia na xrhmatodothsei koinwnika programmata, koinwnikoy xarakthra politikh.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Hqela na rwthsw, an mporei kaneis na ypoqesei, meta th synanthsh Papandreoy-Tzem kai osa eipwqhkan se ayth th synanthsh, oti to plaisio qematwn pros syzhthsh, metajy Elladas-Toyrkias, dieyrynetai h paramenoyme sthn politikh poy mexri twra diakhryssetai, oti to monadiko qema einai to qema ths orioqethshs yfalokrhpidas kai h parapomph toy sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs.

REPPAS: Paramenoyme se ayth thn politikh. H erwthsh sas periexei kai thn apanthsh. Ayto einai safes. Den yparxei, gia th xwra mas -ayto einai akrogwniaios liqos ths ejwterikhs politikhs mas- opoiodhpote allo qema poy na synista diafora metajy Elladas-Toyrkias.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Opws gnwrizete, shmera arxizei sth Geneyh o 5os gyros twn ek toy syneggys synomiliwn gia to Kypriako. Dierwtwmai, ti mporei na perimenei kaneis apo ayth th synanthsh, otan ta mhnymata poy erxontai apo thn toyrkikh pleyra einai teleiws arnhtika. Froneite oti mporei na bgei kati qetiko apo mia tetoia synanthsh h aytos o dialogos einai dialogos metajy kwfwn; Dhladh, milame gia na milame.

REPPAS: Ekana sxetikh dhlwsh, proxqes. Asfalws, den einai eyoiwnes oi probleceis. Prepei, omws, h Kypriakh Dhmokratia na parameinei sto epikentro toy dieqnoys endiaferontos. Kai pisteyw oti oi syzhthseis dieykolynoyn, wste to kypriako qema na paramenei chla sthn atzenta ths Dieqnoys Koinothtas. H kybernhsh ths Kyproy pairnei meros se ayth th diadikasia, etoimh na syzhthsei epi ths oysias kai gia oles tis ptyxes toy kypriakoy problhmatos. Ayto fanerwnei thn ypeyqynh stash ths, antiqeta me thn aneyqynh kai arnhtikh stash poy exei krathsei, mexri twra, h allh pleyra.

GKOGKAS: Qa hqela na moy peite, an o k. Papandreoy, kata th xqesinh synanthsh me ton k. Tzem, aperrice estw kai mia apo tis ennea protaseis poy eixe kataqesei h Agkyra gia th dieyrynsh twn metrwn oikodomhshs empistosynhs.

REPPAS: Epanalambanw oti den yparxei kamia symfwnia, wste na qewreitai oti sta qemata, ta opoia exoyn katagrafei, exei prokycei symfwnia epi ths oysias. Sas lew oti, sto plaisio ayths ths syzhthshs, diatypwqhkan diafores protaseis. H katalhjh einai: Qemata ta opoia mporei na syzhthqoyn metajy twn dyo xwrwn, na tajinomhqoyn se dyo kathgories. Den allazei tipota se sxesh me thn politikh poy akoloyqoyme, mexri twra.

MOYRTZHS: Otan anaferotan o Prwqypoyrgos sta MME kai elege oti diaxeirizontai th stigmh, to efhmero kai to synaisqhma, miloyse gia thn poiotikh staqmh twn MME; Giati diakrinw enan apajiwtiko xarakthra kai ean einai etsi poio montelo enhmerwshs nomizete oti einai to kalytero; Kai ena allo erwthma, pws sxoliazei toys ``maintanoys'' toys boyleytes poy paroysiazontai, ana pasa stigmh, sto peristylio ths Boylhs kai sta diafora thleoptika paraqyra;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos ekane mia poly syntomh koinwniologikh analysh gia th logikh poy diakatexei ta Mesa -an yparxei logikh poy diakatexei ta MME- oson afora th leitoyrgia kai to programmatiko periexomeno toys. Ayto to opoio eipe htan safes. To gnwrizete ki eseis apo thn empeiria poy exete kai einai kai swsto. Oloi eimaste martyres pws thn epoxh ths eikonokratias, ayto poy exei shmasia einai h eikona poy einai poly dieisdytikh. Gia na prokalesei endiaferon, prepei na einai mia eikona opoy qa proballetai ayto to opoio apotelei, mallon, ektroph apo to fysiologiko, ayto poy einai anorqodojo, ayto poy ``ereqizei''. De nomizw oti komizei kaneis glayka sthn Aqhna, epanalambanontas aytes tis alhqeies, tis opoies tis gnwrizete poly kala.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Efoson eixame ayth thn koybenta, gia poio logo na apagoreyontai oi kameres; Dhladh, yphrxe symfwnia olwn twn kommatwn kai ths kybernhshs na apagoreytoyn oi kameres@;

REPPAS: Eipe xarakthristika enas synadelfos shmera, oti xqes egine mia oysiastikh syzhthsh gia para polles wres, peripoy 6 wres, sthn Epitroph Morfwtikwn Ypoqesewn. Ayto poy problhqhke apo ta MME einai mia frash poy eipe enas boyleyths apo th mia kai apo thn allh, mia eikona synodeyomenh apo sxolia peri dhqen epibolhs apagoreyshs sta MME na kanoyn th doyleia toys. Dhladh, h enhmerwsh poy eixan oi polites gia to periexomeno ayths ths 6wrhs synedriashs sympyknwqhke se ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Afoy toys ebgalan ejw, ti qelate na poyn;

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti egine logos gia ton tropo me ton opoio enhmerwqhkan oi polites gia to periexomeno ayths ths synedriashs. Kai gnwrizete kala oti h syzhthsh htan poly shmantikh gia ena krisimo qema. Den doqhke entolh na apoxwrhsoyn oi dhmosiografoi. Oi dhmosiografoi einai parontes, plhroforoyntai apo prwto xeri kai mporoyn etsi na plhroforoyn kai toys polites,

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Giati den emeinan oi kameres mesa;

REPPAS: Dinetai h entypwsh oti apagoreythke stoys dhmosiografoys na einai parontes se aytes tis synedriaseis. Den prokeitai peri aytoy. Kai kapoioi kakopistoi odhgoyntai se kati akomh pio proxwrhmeno, na lene oti epiballetai logokrisia. Gnwrizete oti den antapokrinetai sthn pragmatikothta.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Otan enas dhmosiografos apo mia efhmerida mpainei se mia aiqoysa kai exei to xarti kai to molybi, o dhmosiografos apo thn thleorash exei thn kamera. An peite eseis stoys dhmosiografoys apo thn efhmerida na mhn exoyn mazi toys stylo kai xarti, ti qa kanoyn oi dhmosiografoi;

REPPAS: Mhn apeyqyneste se emena eidikws, giati egw den mporw na eimai antikeimenikos. Egw, epi peripoy pente xronia, se kaqhmerinh bash, briskomai edw, stekomai apenanti sta ``polyboleia'' sas kai exei dhmioyrghqei mia sxesh, qa moy epitrecete na pw, akatalyth, isws kai sxesh ejarthshs. Mh rwtate, loipon, emena gia ena tetoio qema, giati den mporw na eimai antikeimenikos.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Poios ftaiei gi ayto;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizete oti ta hlektronika MME sta programmata toys, alla kai oi efhmerides epilegoyn qemata, ta opoia entypwsiazoyn; Qemata twn opoiwn h epidrash sthn poreia ths xwras h sthn kaqhmerinh zwh mas einai mhdenikh, thn idia wra poy yparxoyn shmantikes apofaseis poy aforoyn gia paradeigma ta eqnika qemata, thn koinwnikh politikh h ta ejoplistika programmata dapanhs trisekatommyriwn draxmwn apo ton kratiko proypologismo; Kai ayta, ws eidhsh, den proballetai. Ayto den einai mia pragmatikothta; Ti einai ayto poy kaqorizei th zwh twn Ellhnwn; Ti einai ayto poy kaqorizei thn poreia ths xwras; Ayto, loipon, poy kaqorizei thn poreia ths xwras kai ephreazei thn kaqhmerinh zwh twn politwn pisteyete eseis oti einai ayto poy proballetai ws eidhsh kata proteraiothta. Oloi exoyme thn empeiria oti ayto einai kati to opoio syxna aposiwpatai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sas apagoreysame emeis pote@

REPPAS: Asfalws oxi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pws lete tote oti den yparxei swsth enhmerwsh;

REPPAS: Ma, eseis qelete na epiballete logokrisia kai den epitrepete kai se mena na ekfrasw mia apoch. Eseis anaptyssete tis apoceis sas kai, bebaiws, proballete ta qemata kata ton diko sas tropo. Einai dikaiwma sas. Poios sas eipe oti eseis exete to dikaiwma na askeite ayth thn kritikh kai kaneis den exei dikaiwma na epishmainei, kanontas mia analysh aytoy toy fainomenoy, ayta ta opoia ki egw twra epishmainw; Ta exw pei xiliades fores. Exoyn grafei kai se biblia.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Prin apo thn erwthsh moy, tiqetai ena poly sobaro qema, to opoio sas afora. Poios edwse ayto to nomiko plaisio sth xwra mas kai kata symptwsh to PASOK, ola ayta ta xronia na yparxei eleyqeria, plhrhs asydosia@

REPPAS: Den einai kaqoloy kata symptwsh@

PAPADOPOYLOS: Edw fqasame se anqrwpoys poy den exoyn adeia, typikws kai oysiastikws, na poyloyn se disekatommyria tis adeies. Poies adeies; Poios toys edwse thn adeia kai na ginetai h adeia antikeimeno pwlhshs; Ti kanete gi ayto;

REPPAS: Moy dinete thn eykairia na pw oti ta MME sthn patrida mas, oi thleoptikoi kai radiofwnikoi staqmoi leitoyrgoyn nomimws. Prwton, exei chfistei sxetikos nomos kai gia th mia kai gia thn allh kathgoria twn Meswn. Antiqeta me o,ti synebh mia periodo epi N.D. poy leitoyrgoysan paranoma, xwris na yparxei opoiadhpote nomikh problech. Deyteron, h diadikasia gia th xorhghsh adeiwn oloklhrwnetai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exei parei kanenas adeia;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizete ola ta qemata. Mhn epimenete.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exei parei kanenas adeia shmera;

REPPAS: H diadikasia gia th xorhghsh adeiwn se thleoptikoys staqmoys brisketai sto teleytaio stadio, oloklhrwnetai apo th dikh mas pleyra. Htan ena ergo kopiwdes, poly perissotero giati gia prwth fora akoloyqeitai ayth h diadikasia meta thn ekdosh twn xartwn syxnothtwn. Ayto einai ena terastio ergo. Qa exw th dynatothta kai to apogeyma sth Boylh kai se allh eykairia na anaptyjw ola ayta ta qemata. Gia ayto den sas koyrazw twra. Gia toys 60 ypochfioys na laboyn adeia thleoptikoy staqmoy topikhs embeleias h meleth twn stoixeiwn oloklhrwqhke. Prokeitai na einai syntoma oi fakeloi aytoi sth diaqesh toy ESR. Opws, epishs, mexri to telos toy mhna -aytos einai o stoxos mas- to synolo twn fakelwn poy aforoyn toys thleoptikoys staqmoys poy diekdikoyn adeia leitoyrgias eqnikhs kai perifereiakhs embeleias, peran ths topikhs embeleias gia thn opoia milhsa, qa exoyn prowqhqei sto ESR. Einai ena ogkwdes yliko 150.000 selidwn, to opoio oi synergates mas -kai den einai polloi se ayth th xwra oi eidikoi epi twn qematwn aytwn- melethsan selida-selida me poly ypeyqyno tropo, gia arketo kairo. H epomenh fora qa einai asfalws pio eykolh. Prepei na sas pw oti ayth h sxetikh kaqysterhsh ofeiletai sthn entypwsiakh anetoimothta thn opoia edeijan ta MME otan kaname thn prokhryjh. H qa eprepe na kleisoyme oloys toys leitoyrgoyntes staqmoys h qa eprepe na epanalaboyme thn prokhryjh, xwris omws na eggyatai kaneis oti qa einai perissotero etoimoi oi proserxomenoi ypochfioi. Chfisame to arqro 19 par.1 toy N.2644 kai dwsame th dynatothta se oloys na symplhrwsoyn ta stoixeia twn fakelwn toys, na prosarmostoyn sthn prokhryjh poy eixame ekdwsei apo thn arxh, wste na elegxqoyn kai na kriqoyn epi isois orois. To oti ginontai allages sto idiokthsiako kaqestws -ayto qesate metajy twn allwn me thn erwthsh sas- ayth thn periodo, einai kati to opoio symfwna me tis probleceis toy nomoy 2328, arqro 1 par. 13, elegxetai, krinetai kai apofasizetai apo to ESR.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Apo to 1985, sth aiqoysa ayth kai me toys prokatoxoys sas, to lew ayto xwris na qelw na ypotimhsw to ergo poy epiteleite, ta exoyme akoysei ayta ekato xiliades fores. Praktika, sta deka ayta xronia blepoyme mia agoraia agorapwlhsia syxnothtwn, perioysia toy kratoys, me mia typikh, epiplasth nomimofaneia, me apotelesma ayth h perioysia toy kratoys na ginetai antikeimeno agorapwlhsias. Ki eseis moy lete twra ola ayta ta wraia kai kala. Na moy dwsete apanthsh@

REPPAS: Qa sas dwsw apanthsh, giati yparxei apanthsh kai malista isxyrh. Prwta ap ola, gia prwth fora qa diapistwsete, ean exete mexri twra apogohteyqei, oti h diadikasia ayth oloklhrwnetai. Deyteron, oson afora tis oikonomikes ypoxrewseis twn Meswn, prepei na sas pw oti emeis, ws ypoyrgeio Typoy, exoyme ekdwsei oles tis apofaseis, prokeimenoy ta Mesa na antapokriqoyn stis ypoxrewseis toys. Eisprattontai ta prostima poy epiballontai apo to ESR, basei twn apofasewn poy ekdidontai. Oi thleoptikoi staqmoi eqnikhs embeleias poy exoyn adeia apo to 1993, exoyn klhqei kai kataballoyn to antallagma xrhshs gia th syxnothta poy xrhsimopoioyn, giati milhsate gia eqnikh perioysia. Ta posa ayta einai arketa disekatommyria kai kataballontai. Lysame to qema toy aggelioshmoy, yper twn dikaioyxwn asfalistikwn tameiwn, twn dikwn sas tameiwn dhladh, enw palaiotera shmantika posa arketwn disekatommyriwn draxmwn perihrxonto stoys idiokthtes twn Meswn, oi opoioi en synexeia kai meta apo sxetikh xronikh kaqysterhsh ta apedidan sta asfalistika tameia. Me ryqmish apo to 1996, ta antistoixa posa apodidontai aytomatws, xwris na mesolabei h idiokthsia twn MME sta dikaioyxa asfalistika tameia, me apotelesma na exoyme qeamatikh ayjhsh twn esodwn twn asfalistikwn tameiwn. Kai polles akomh draseis me oikonomiko antikeimeno kai periexomeno deixnoyn oti ston tomea ayto mpainei mia tajh. Dikaiwnetai h prospaqeia mas gia thn aposafhnish toy radiothleoptikoy topioy. Yparxoyn ateleiwta stoixeia sth diaqesh pantos endiaferomenoy. To epishmainw, giati legontai anohsies kai cemata apo diaforoys poy den gnwrizoyn ta qemata. Mporei kapoios na sygkrinei to diko mas ergo gia na bgalei symperasma me to ti eixe ginei kapoia allh periodo, poy -qa prepei na sas pw- ta kanalia leitoyrghsan kai paranoma kai xwris na klhqoyn na plhrwsoyn oyte mia draxmh sto Dhmosio Tameio, enw xrhsimopoihsan, ayto poy eseis lete perioysia olwn mas, tis syxnothtes.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Skopeyei h ellhnikh kybernhsh sto plaisio ths politikhs poy akoloyqei kai twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn na kaqierwsei thn albanikh glwssa, ws deyterh glwssa sta sxoleia;

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei se ayto.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ti exete apanthsei;

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei se arketes erwthseis gia to qema ayto. To ypoyrgeio Paideias to exei antimetwpisei. Gnwrizete oti ta paidia ta opoia proerxontai apo thn Albania, didaskontai se ellhnika sxoleia kai didaskontai ta maqhmata sthn ellhnikh glwssa.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Allo sas rwtw egw.

REPPAS: Xairomai giati exete aytes tis agwnies. Sas lew loipon oti ektos twn wrwn didaskalias, sta idia sxoleia, ta albanopoyla qa mporoyn me alloys qesmoys na maqainoyn th glwssa toys kai na diathrhsoyn ta stoixeia toy politismoy toys.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Giati ypoxrewnete toys Albanoys kai opoiondhpote jeno na mh didasketai sth glwssa toy kai na maqainei zorina thn ellhnikh glwssa;

REPPAS: Ellhnika sxoleia leitoyrgoyn. Den yparxei apofash gia th leitoyrgia allwn sxoleiwn poy na didaskontai ta maqhmata se allh glwssa.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ayto to qewreite dhmokratiko, sto plaisio twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn, na anagkazete ton Albano h ton Filippinezo na maqei thn ellhnikh glwssa;

REPPAS: Qa laboyme ypoch thn protash sas. Pragmatika einai ena shmantiko qema, doqentos oti polla albanopoyla zoyn sthn Ellada kai einai mia nea pragmatikothta sthn poly-politismikh Ellada. Einai ena neo stoixeio to opoio den prepei na agnooyme, gi ayto analambanontai sxetikes prwtoboylies.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati paraithqhke o k. Paylakhs kai ean exei sxesh h paraithsh toy me th xrhmatodothsh twn Minwikwn Grammwn;

REPPAS: Poios einai o k. Paylakhs;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den ton jerete; Htan ypodieyqynths sthn ETEBA.

REPPAS: Sthn paraithsh poy ypebale, eimai bebaios oti anaferei toys logoys. Ki eseis poy eiste enas daimonios (!) dhmosiografos, pws den ereynhsate gia ta ths paraithshs toy;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw rwtaw thn kybernhsh kai ean exei sxesh me tis Minwikes Grammes; H xrhmatodothsh htan 85 ekatommyria dolaria.

REPPAS: An rwthsw egw esas ws dhmosiografo gia to ti ginetai ston kosmo, asfalws qa me parapemcete kapoy alloy. Gia ta qemata, loipon, enos ypoyrgeioy h mias trapezas, opoios endiaferetai na kanei ereyna, mporei na thn kanei, apeyqynomenos stis phges. Kai nomizw oti ayto ginotan panta apo toys kaloys dhmosiografoys.

Sas eyxaristw.

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