Greek Government Press Briefing, 99-10-19

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 19 Oktwbrioy 1999

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Opws gnwrizete, o Prwqypoyrgos qa episkefqei thn Pempth th Mytilhnh. H anaxwrhsh qa ginei stis 9 to prwi apo to Anatoliko Aerodromio kai parakalw, osoi endiaferontai na laboyn meros sthn apostolh na to dhlwsoyn armodiws.

* Me aformh th shmerinh omilia toy Proedroy ths Neas Dhmokratias sthn K. O. toy kommatos toy, qelw na pw ta ejhs:

O k. Karamanlhs milhse kai pali gia ton "anendoto agwna" poy exei khryjei! Den prokeitai gia anendoto kai den prokeitai gia agwna. "Anendotos" xwris prohgoymeno, xwris synexeia giati den briskei antapokrish, Einai anekdotos, pleon. Kai "agwnas", o opoios diejagetai apo to grafeio toy Proedroy ths N. D., makria apo ta endiaferonta kai toys problhmatismoys twn Ellhnwn politwn gia ta problhmata poy toys apasxoloyn. Sthn pragmatikothta prokeitai gia thn agwnia politikhs epibiwshs toy k. Karamanlh, o opoios me th stash toy ayth fanerwnei oti den kanei tipota allo, para na kataskeyazei th desmh dikaiologiwn poy qa xrhsimopoihsei meta thn eperxomenh eklogikh htta.

H N. D. kai o k. Karamanlhs den strefontai enantion ths kybernhshs. Strefontai enantion ths xwras, giati h skandalologia kai h akraia polwsh thn opoia prowqoyn -kai malista se mia krisimh periodo- yponomeyei thn poreia ths xwras kai tis dynatothtes ths na antimetwpisei me epityxia tis proklhseis.

Telikws, h N. D. einai ena tmhma mias epoxhs poy exei fygei. H hgesia ths thn exei metatrecei se ena komma politikhs opisqofylakhs, ena komma fqarmeno kai gi` ayto einai pros aposyrsh apo thn politikh zwh ths xwras.

Emeis, h kybernhsh mas, me th sthrijh kai th bohqeia toy ellhnikoy laoy, opws mexri twra shmeiwsame shmantika epiteygmata, qa synexisoyme thn poreia mas gia na odhghsoyme thn patrida mas, ws isxyrh Ellada, ston 21o aiwna. Kai qa epityxoyme se ayth thn prospaqeia.

* Sas anakoinwnw oti o Prwqypoyrgos dexqhke epistolh apo ton Proedro toy Emporikoy Epimelhthrioy Smyrnhs. H epistolh ayth exei hmeromhnia 23 Septembrioy 1999. Sthn epistolh apanthse o Prwqypoyrgos, pro hmerwn. H apanthtikh epistolh exei hmeromhnia 12 Oktwbrioy. Oi dyo epistoles qa einai sth diaqesh sas, amesws meta.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

BITSENTZOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate ta osa eipate, anaferomenos ston Arxhgo ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs, o opoios kataggellei th diafqora kai -kata th gnwmh pollwn apo emas- eipe ligotera apo osa eipe o k. Pagkalos gia ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn kai thn ejwterikh politikh poy askeitai, fantazomai, me th symfwnia olhs ths kybernhshs kai toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Anarwtiemai, loipon, an qa epanalabete ta idia, dhladh, ta peri "agwnias politikhs epibiwshs" h kata poson telika aytes oi dhlwseis "strefontai enantion ths xwras";

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos einai stelexos toy PASOK. Einai ek twn boyleytwn ths kybernhtikhs pleiochfias. H kybernhsh sthrizetai sto synolo twn boyleytwn poy exoyn eklegei me th shmaia toy PASOK. O Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn Giwrgos Papandreoy askei politikh me bash tis apofaseis twn kybernhtikwn organwn. H politikh poy askeitai einai ayth poy exei symfwnhqei, sto plaisio toso kybernhtikwn, oso kai kommatikwn organwn kai askeitai me idiaiterh epityxia apo ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn. Tetoies aitiaseis enantion toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn kai toy tropoy me ton opoio askei thn ejwterikh politikh ths xwras den einai dikaiologhmenes.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Pagkalos, omws, leei oti den akoloyqei o k. Papandreoy -alla kai o k. Shmiths- ellhnikh politikh, alla akoloyqei thn amerikanikh propaganda.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos den leei akribws ayto. Alla, den qa mpw -pagideyomenos apo thn erwthsh sas- se sxoliasmo twn qesewn poy diatypwnoyn ta diafora stelexh, oso probeblhmena kai an einai. Akomh kai an einai melh toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy toy Kinhmatos. Ayto to opoio qa epanalabw einai toyto kai mono toyto: h askoymenh ejwterikh politikh apo ton armodio Ypoyrgo briskei symfwnh olh thn kybernhsh. Ayth einai h politikh poy exei apofasistei, meta apo syzhthseis, sta armodia kybernhtika organa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Nai, alla eipate sta armodia organa, prohgoymenws. Se ena apo ta ychlotera organa toy Kinhmatos, toy PASOK, einai mesa o k. Pagkalos. Den ta gnwrizei kai kathgorei thn kybernhsh oti akoloyqei amerikanikh politikh;

REPPAS: Gia to qema ayto qa rwthsete ton k. Pagkalo. Gia to an h politikh poy askeitai einai politikh h opoia ekfrazei thn kybernhsh kai to PASOK, mporw kai pali na sas diabebaiwsw oti einai etsi kai exei apofasistei meta apo syzhthseis sta armodia organa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Pagkalos, omws, leei oti o k. Papandreoy den akoloyqei ayth thn politikh poy exei apofasistei sta organa;

REPPAS: Den qa apanthsw egw gia logariasmo toy k. Pagkaloy.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Sto idio qema: eipate prin oti "tetoies aitiaseis enantion ths ejwterikhs politikhs poy askei o k. Papandreoy den einai dikaiologhmenes". Ti shmainei ayto k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Oti den symfwnoyme me aytoys toys isxyrismoys.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Kai politika ti shmainei ayto poy eipe o k. Pagkalos; Giati exei ayth thn asylia o k. Pagkalos;

REPPAS: Den prokeitai gia asylia. Kaqenas exei to dikaiwma na ekfrazetai kai na leei tis apoceis toy, na krinei toys alloys kai na krinetai kai o idios gia tis apoceis poy diatypwnei. Ayto einai basikos kanonas ths dhmokratias poy xarakthrizei th leitoyrgia ths politikhs sthn patrida mas kai prepei na ginetai sebastos.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Dhladh, den yparxei problhma gia to PASOK kai thn kybernhsh me ta osa leei kaqe ebdomada o k. Pagkalos;

REPPAS: Ta symperasmata dika sas.

MEGGRELHS: Exw, edw, th synenteyjh toy k. Pagkaloy, poy leei se ena shmeio, anaferomenos sta osa exei pei o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, oti ayta einai amerikanika pragmata, einai h epishmh propaganda twn Amerikanwn. Se ena allo shmeio leei, oti emeis eimaste etoimoi na paradwsoyme kai thn Attikh Odo. Aytes oi aitiaseis bohqoyn thn kalh eikona ths kybernhshs;

REPPAS: Apo th stigmh poy den briskoyn symfwnh thn kybernhsh, antilambaneste pws den einai dynaton h kybernhsh na qewrei oti bohqeitai apo tetoioy eidoys qeseis. Asfalws den bohqeitai h kybernhsh.

FILHS: Epeidh eipate oti tetoies qeseis den bohqoyn thn kybernhsh kai epeidh o k. Pagkalos exei analabei apo ton Prwqypoyrgo kai to Ektelestiko Grafeio na diamorfwsei tis qeseis toy kybernwntos kommatos enocei twn eklogwn, qa hqela na rwthsw, an yparxei kapoio asymbibasto na leei ayta ta pragmata o k. Pagkalos poy einai ypeyqynos gia na diamorfwsei tis qeseis toy Synedrioy toy PASOK.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos exei eklegei melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy apo thn Kentrikh Epitroph. Paramenei melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy. Askei ta kaqhkonta toy, xwris periorismoys. Den einai meiwmenwn dikaiwmatwn kai armodiothtwn o k. Pagkalos, ws melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy. Ara, oi apofaseis poy lambanontai kai oi armodiothtes poy exoyn doqei sta stelexh toy Kinhmatos, askoyntai analogws. Den yparxei kanenas periorismos ws pros ayto.

FILHS: Sygnwmh, k. Ypoyrge. O k. Pagkalos exei mia -ocima, malista, thn exei analabei- armodiothta, h opoia diafhmisthke kai enocei eklogwn, na diamorfwsei to neo programmatiko profil toy PASOK. Oi qeseis poy diatypwnei o k. Pagkalos, synadoyn pros ayth thn kateyqynsh ths kybernhshs;

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos paramenei melos toy E. G. Qa diatypwsei thn eishghsh toy, h opoia qa lhfqei ypoch ws eishghsh enos stelexoys toy E. G. poy exei analabei na ferei se peras to sygkekrimeno ergo.

MIXAHL: Epitrecte moy na epimeinw. Ayto poy lete, den apanta se ayto poy rwta o k. Filhs. Oti einai melos toy E. G. den to amfisbhtei kaneis. To oti paramenei sto E. G., epishs, kaneis den to amfisbhtei. Kai apo oti jerw, kanenas apo ta hgetika stelexh, toys ypoloipoys 11, den to amfisbhtei. Ayto poy amfisbhteitai einai ean o k. Pagkalos me ayta poy leei, ta opoia eseis eipate oti den bohqoyn to ergo ths kybernhshs, einai apoceis toy k. Pagkaloy kai den einai dikaiologhmenes aitiaseis, synadoyn me ayto poy exei analabei na kanei, dhladh na diatypwsei analoges qeseis. Logika skeftetai kapoios: Pws apo th mia meria ayto to pragma: den einai dikaiologhmenes aitiaseis kai apo thn allh "grace mas kapoies qeseis". Ti qa gracei; Diaforetikes;

REPPAS: Milate san na gnwrizete poio einai to keimeno ths eishghshs toy k. Pagkaloy. O k. Pagkalos den exei diatypwsei grapth eishghsh. Parakalw, na ejetasoyme thn eishghsh ayth ws keimeno, otan dei to fws ths dhmosiothtas. Den yparxei kati tetoio, ayth thn wra toylaxiston, kai den prepei na protrexoyme.

MIXAHL: Na rwthsw kati akomh. O k. Pagkalos, loipon, me ola ayta, sas exei odhghsei shmera na kratate kapoies apostaseis. Toylaxiston, etsi to ermhneyw egw. Peite moy, sas parakalw poly: O Prwqypoyrgos qa antapokriqei sto aithma toy k. Pagkaloy, poy epaneilhmmena to exei qesei, na syzhthsei mazi toy -giati den nomizw na ton kalesei, na syzhthsoyn me ayton ton tropo, o Prwqypoyrgos- kai na toy pei "Wraia. Ti einai ayta poy les; Ayta exoyme symfwnhsei ta kybernhtika organa";

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei epikoinwnia me ta stelexh ths kybernhshs kai toy kommatos. Gnwrizete oti ergazetai aokna, prokeimenoy na prowqhsei to kybernhtiko ergo kai thn politikh toy Kinhmatos. Prosfata, syzhthse me ton k. Pagkalo sxetika qemata. Asfalws, o Prwqypoyrgos synergazetai me ola ta stelexh. Nomizw oti ayto to qema to opoio qesate me tis erwthseis sas, jefeygei pia apo th syzhthsh gia thn politikh enhmerwsh. Htan safh ayta ta opoia eipa. H kybernhsh exei sygkekrimeno programma, sygkekrimenes qeseis, efarmozei sygkekrimenh politikh, opws ayth exei apofasistei sta armodia organa. Asfalws den einai dynato, na ikanopoieitai me qeseis oi opoies den thn briskoyn symfwnh. Epeidh, akribws, oi qeseis aytes den thn briskoyn symfwnh, antilambaneste pws den einai dynaton h kybernhsh na qewrei oti thn wfelei h diatypwsh twn qesewn aytwn. Htan toso safh kai logika ayta ta opoia eipa.

SOYGLERHS: Hqela na rwthsw: Prwton, an o k. Pagkalos dhmioyrgei problhma me aytes tis dhlwseis kaqe fora, poy diaforopoieitai, mias kai den milame gia to stelexos, milame gia ton prwhn ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn; Kai deyteron, an qa ton kalesei o k. Shmiths na toy kanei kapoies parathrhseis, an dhladh, einai dysaresthmenos o k. Shmiths...

REPPAS: Apanthsa prin kai sta dyo skelh ths erwthshs sas.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, mexri ton Ianoyario, poy qa ginei to Synedrio Qesewn toy kommatos sas, o k. Pagkalos qa einai sto E. G.;

REPPAS: Apanthsa se ayto.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Ma, den rwthqhkate gi` ayto.

REPPAS: Den eipa oti exei eklegei apo thn K. E. kai paramenei melos toy E. G.; Profanws, den me parakoloyqhsate.

MEGGRELHS: Leei o k. Pagkalos oti "o k. Papandreoy "maxairwse" piswplata toys synergates toy kai ton Prwqypoyrgo". Qa hqela ena sxolio, epi aytoy toy sygkekrimenoy qematos, apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs.

Kai mia deyterh erwthsh. Den hmoyn sto Tampere, alla epeidh nomizw oti oi synadelfoi kanoyn kala th doyleia toys kai o k. Pagkalos me mperdece ligo. Leei edw oti o Prwqypoyrgos eipe stoys eyrwpaioys etairoys oti "qelete na ginw palianqrwpos san kai esas, na ginw karagkiozhs kai na dwsw enan titlo se aytoys toys alhtes ths Agkyras, toys dolofonoys, se aytoys toys anqrwpoys poy katapiezoyn ta anqrwpina dikaiwmata kai to lao toys; "

Qelw na rwthsw: eipe kati tetoio o Prwqypoyrgos;

REPPAS: Ej onomatos toy Prwqypoyrgoy, nomimopoioymai kai mporw na milhsw. Sas diabebaiwnw oti o Prwqypoyrgos den milhse me ayton ton tropo. Oson afora ta alla qemata ta opoia anaferontai sth synenteyjh poy paraxwrhse o k. Pagkalos, qa moy epitrecete na mhn probw se opoiodhpote sxolio, giati -einai kanonas aytos- den einai dynato na sxoliazoyme tis apoceis h tis qeseis twn stelexwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate k. Ypoyrge oti h kybernhsh den einai dynaton me qeseis poy den thn briskoyn symfwnh, na einai ikanopoihmenh apo ayta poy eipe o k. Pagkalos. Alla stelexh poy exoyn parei diaforetikes qeseis exoyn breqei ektos PASOK. O k. Pagkalos exei asylo;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti to PASOK katorqwnei kai kyberna edw kai polla xronia, epeidh akribws sthrizetai se mia shmantikh koinoboyleytikh pleiochfia. H pleiochfia ayth einai stereh. Einai pleiochfia h opoia kat epanalhch exei apodeixtei oti stoixizetai me thn Kybernhsh stis megales epiloges gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn ths xwras kai twn politwn. O k. Pagkalos einai ena melos ayths ths koinoboyleytikhs pleiochfias poy sthrizei me thn paroysia toy kai th chfo toy thn kybernhsh stis epiloges ths. Den yparxei loipon, opoiodhpote tetoio qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Opote mporei na leei oti qelei, exei asylo...

REPPAS: Asylia den exei oydeis. Gnwrizete poly kala oti yparxoyn kanones bash twn opoiwn oloi mporoyn na krinoyn, alla, kai na krinontai. Ayto einai pagia arxh h opoia kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh isxyei.

KOYROYNIS: Qa hqela na rwthsw an gia thn kybernhsh yparxei metabolh ths Agglias gia to qema ths entajhs ths Kyproy sthn E. E., meta th synanthsh toy k. Papandreoy me ton Bretano ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn Koyk.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete tis dhlwseis poy exei kanei o Bretanos ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, o opoios topoqeteitai eyqews yper ths akwlyths entajhs ths Kyproy sthn E. E., anejarthtws ths ejelijhs, oson afora to politiko problhma ths Kyproy.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na rwthsw an gia thn kybernhsh exei allajei to xronodiagramma gyrw apo thn egkatastash twn seismoplhktwn se konteiners kai troxospita.

REPPAS: Den exei allajei se tipota to xronodiagramma. Den exoyn allajei ayta ta opoia exoyme pei ws pros toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. Gnwrizete oti oi kairikes synqhkes -allwste htan anamenomeno na antimetwpisoyme ayta ta problhmata me tis broxes- kanoyn dyskolotero to ergo mas. Kaloyme toys amesa endiaferomenoys seismoplhktoys polites, na synergastoyn me tis armodies Yphresies. Einai ikanopoihtikh h antapokrish sthn ajiopoihsh toy metroy poy afora to epidoma sygkatoikhshs. Pisteyoyme oti qa prepei akomh perissotero, se megalytero dhladh baqmo, na ajiopoihqei to metro ayto, para to oti einai apolytws katanohtoi oi logoi -cyxologikoi alla kai praktikoi- poy kanoyn kapoioys na mh qeloyn na metakinhqoyn apo tis skhnes, stis opoies briskontai proswrinws. Epiqymw kai pali na toys kalesw, synergazomenoi me tis armodies yphresies, na dextoyn na metakinhqoyn, estw proswrina, se xwroys poy exoyn proetoimastei gi` ayto to skopo, prokeimenoy n antimetwpistoyn aytes oi dysmeneis kairikes synqhkes. Eite se jenodoxeia, eite se ploia, eite se megaloys prostateyomenoys xwroys poy exoyn dhmioyrghsei oi dhmoi, wste na exoyn kalyteres synqhkes kaqhmerinhs zwhs.

MIXAHL: Xqes to meshmeri, den eixe anakoinwqei, o Prwqypoyrgos sygkalese th gnwsth omada epikoinwnias, esas, ton k. Laliwth kai alloys synergates toy. Mporoyme na maqoyme ti apofasisqhke;

REPPAS: Den lambanontai apofaseis se tetoioy eidoys synanthseis. Antallassontai apoceis. O Prwqypoyrgos exei to dikaiwma -toy to anagnwrizete pisteyw apolytws- na syzhta kai na antallassei apoceis me stelexh epi qematwn ta opoia qewrei o idios oti exoyn endiaferon.

MIXAHL: Mporeite na mas peite ti sas symboylece, ti kateyqynseis sas edwse.

REPPAS: Aytes oi synergasies toy Prwqypoyrgoy, antilambaneste, oti den exoyn xarakthra synedriashs epishmoy kybernhtikoy organoy, prokeimenoy na syzhteitai kai dhmosiws to periexomeno toys.

MIXAHL: Mono empraktws qa ta doyme, dhladh.

REPPAS: Empraktws blepete to ergo ths kybernhshs. Giati emeis epiqymoyme na eimaste parontes me to ergo mas, thn wra poy kapoioi alloi epiqymoyn na einai parontes me to cema twn logwn toys.

FILHS: Xqes, anakoinwqhke oti qa doqoyn ayjhseis 7% sta stelexh twn Enoplwn Dynamewn kai twn Swmatwn Asfaleias. Thn prohgoymenh ebdomada, anakoinwqhke oti qa doqoyn ayjhseis stoys dhmosioys ypallhloys, molis 2,3%. Gia poio logo h kybernhsh ejairei apo to synolo twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn mia kathgoria ypallhlwn kai toys dinei toso gennaiodwres ayjhseis sygkrinomenes me th litothta poy akoloyqei;

REPPAS: Dexomaste kritikh apo dyo pleyres. H mia pleyra mas kathgorei oti dinoyme ypermetra megales ayjhseis se ena orismeno tmhma ergazomenwn -para to oti exoyn eidiko rolo- opws einai oi ajiwmatikoi twn Enoplwn Dynamewn. S ayth thn pleyra entassete kai ton eayto sas. Yparxei kai h allh pleyra, h opoia mas kathgorei giati den dinoyme ayjhseis, mesw eidikoy misqologioy se orismenes kathgories ergazomenwn sto Dhmosio me thn eyryterh ennoia. Emeis pisteyoyme oti meta apo xronia, hdh exei dhmioyrghqei mia anisothta. Qa prepei oi ajiwmatikoi twn Enoplwn Dynamewn na exoyn eidiko misqologio. Oi apofaseis poy elabe h kybernhsh meta th xqesinh syskech, ypo ton Prwqypoyrgo, twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn, pisteyoyme oti antapokrinontai s ayto to aithma kai dikaiwnoyn thn epiqymia twn idiwn, logw twn eidikwn synqhkwn mesa stis opoies ergazontai, na exoyn amoibes oi opoies qa toys bohqoyn na zoyn ajioprepws. Einai ena metro, loipon, to opoio einai dikaio, alla taytoxrona apotelei kai mia gennaiodwrh xeironomia, qa elega, pros toys andres twn Enoplwn Dynamewn. Kai ola ayta h kybernhsh mporei na ta apofasisei kai na ta qetei se efarmogh, epeidh akribws, me thn politikh poy askei ola ayta ta xronia, exei epityxei ena ajiozhleyto epipedo gia thn oikonomia ths xwras mas, wste xwris na dhmioyrgoyntai elleimmata, xwris alles parenergeies sthn askoymenh oikonomikh politikh, na mporoyme na pairnoyme tetoies prwtoboylies.

FILHS: Oloi oi ergazomenoi exoyn eidikes synqhkes ergasias. Kai oi ekpaideytikoi poy me 200.000 phgainoyn sthn eparxia kai noikiazoyn spiti kai na doylecoyn kai aytoi se eidikes synqhkes doyleyoyn. To erwthma moy einai giati ayta ta metra ta opoia dinete me gennaiodwria stoys ajiwmatikoys twn Enoplwn Dynamewn kai ths Astynomias, sigoyroys chfoforoys kommatwn ejoysias kai peiqhnioys poy den kanoyn apergies klp. logw eidikwn synqhkwn poy anaferate, den ta dinete kai stoys ypoloipoys dhmosioys ypallhloys.

REPPAS: Yparxoyn syllogikes symbaseis, basei twn opoiwn dinontai oi ayjhseis kaqe xrono. Oson afora to sygkekrimeno tmhma, toys andres twn Enoplwn Dynamewn, qewroyme epibeblhmenh kai orqh ayth thn epilogh.

KOYROYNIS: Qelw na epanelqw sto arxiko erwthma moy. H kybernhsh qewrei oti einai metabolh toy Londinoy h dhlwsh ayth toy k. Koyk;

REPPAS: H entajh ths Kyproy sthn E. E. exei apofasistei apo ta koryfaia organa ths E. E. Einai pagia qesh ths. Para to oti kata kairoys diatypwnontai diafores aitiaseis apo polles xwres. Emeis pisteyoyme pws den einai dynaton na anakopei h entajiakh poreia ths Kyproy.

Sas eyxaristw.

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