Greek Government Press Briefing, 99-09-

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 21 Septembrioy 1999

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

ALEJAKH: Exete kati neotero gia tis ejelijeis sthn ereyna toy FALCON;

REPPAS: Den exoyme kapoia ejelijh. Eipame apo thn prwth stigmh oti epiqymoyme na lamcei h alhqeia. Se ayth thn kateyqynsh kinoyntai oi ereynes. Anamenoyme to yliko, ta opoio exei anagnwstei apo to kentro sto Mpraoyntsbaik ths Germanias, opoy exei stalei to ''mayro koyti''. Oi empeirognwmones ergazontai sto Boykoyresti. Isws, entos ths hmeras oloklhrwsoyn tis ergasies toys kai epistrecoyn sthn Ellada, prokeimenoy na synexisoyn to ergo toys edw. Ayto poy qelw na pw einai toyto: Epiqymoyme, to syntomotero dynato -xwris omws o paragontas xronos na apobei se baros ths poiothtas kai ths egkyrothtas twn ereynwn- na oloklhrwqei h ereyna, wste na gnwrizoyme tis leptomereies, ta aitia kai tis synqhkes katw apo tis opoies egine to symban. Qa prepei na deijoyme ypomonh, ypeyqynothta kai sobarothta. To lew ayto, giati apo thn pleyra ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs diatypwqhke h protash gia systash Ejetastikhs Epitrophs sth Boylh. Den aporriptoyme ayth thn protash. Emeis, omws, exoyme epilejei na eimaste sobaroi, ypeyqynoi, dikaioi, oysiastikoi kai apotelesmatikoi. Alloi, exoyn epilejei na einai dhmagwgoi kai entypwsioqhres. Afhnoyme se aytoys ayton to rolo. Qa prepei na exoyme to yliko sth diaqesh mas, thn ekdosh toy porismatos, prokeimenoy tote na staqmisoyme th systash h oxi ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs. H protash poy diatypwnetai apo thn Antipoliteysh einai dhmagwgikh kai gia enan allo logo: Giati, mia tetoia protash mporei na syzhthqei mono sthn olomeleia ths Boylhs. H olomeleia ths Boylhs synedriazei apo tis 4 Oktwbrioy. Me dedomeno oti se ena mhna apo thn kataqesh mias sxetikhs protashs mporei na anoijei sxetikh syzhthsh, ayth, an telika systaqei h Epitroph, qa ginei peri to telos Oktwbrioy. Ara, loipon, ayth h spoydh deixnei epipolaiothta, dhmagwgikh skopimothta, h opoia den mas eggizei. Pantws, apadei pros to poly shmantiko antikeimeno sto opoio anaferetai. Lew kai pali oti den aporriptoyme kamia tetoia protash, alla epeidh qeloyme na antimetwpisoyme ta qemata me sobarothta kai ypeyqynothta, anamenoyme na oloklhrwqoyn oi ereynes, na ekdoqei to porisma, na staqmisoyme ta dedomena kai na laboyme tis apofaseis.

ALEJAKH: Thlefwnoyn sthn efhmerida apo thn OLYMPIAKH kai mas lene diafora gia kyklwmata, gia toys pilotoys, gia epiloges poy eixan ginei me oxi ajiokratika krithria. Epeidh, ayth h istoria peri kyklwmatwn, h opoia eggizei thn OLYMPIAKH kai to FALCON, yparxei para poly kairo, eseis exete dei ayta ta dhmosieymata, aytes tis plhrofories poy miloyn gia kyklwmata kai gia klikes mesa sthn OLYMPIAKH;

REPPAS: Opoiosdhpote exei stoixeia gia thn ereyna poy diejagetai, mporei na ta kataqesei se aytoys poy exoyn thn eyqynh gia thn ereyna. Epishs, ta dhmosieymata ta opoia perierxontai se gnwsh twn armodiwn empeirognwmonwn, ereynhtwn h twn anakritikwn arxwn, mporei kai ayta na apotelesoyn thn afethria, th bash gia thn ejetash ekeinwn poy diatypwnoyn kapoies tetoies apoceis. Den prokeitai egw na ginw anakriths ki eseis anakrinomenh, h eseis anakriths ki egw anakrinomenos. Antilambaneste oti ayto to ergo to exoyme afhsei -kai qa perifroyrhsoyme ayth th diadikasia- se ekeinoys poy exoyn th sxetikh armodiothta. Parakalw ayto na to sebastoyme oloi.

ALEJAKH: Jerete, omws, oti exei dhmioyrghqei diaxyth entypwsh oti qa mporoyse na mhn eixe symbei ayto to atyxhma, an kapoia pragmata eixan ginei swsta;

REPPAS: Gi` ayto akribws ginetai h ereyna. Gia na gnwrizoyme an yphrje laqos kai poio einai ayto, prokeimenoy na apodoqoyn eyqynes se aytoys, oi opoioi exoyn kanei to laqos, efoson yparxei laqos. Alla, einai poly prowro na milhsoyme gia ola ayta me sygkekrimeno tropo. Mia tetoia syzhthsh qa elega oti mporei na synista kai parembash sto ergo ekeinwn poy exoyn analabei th diejagwgh ayths ths ereynas.

ALEJAKH: Perysi, stis 28 Ioylioy, o k. Mantelhs esteile mia epistolh ston Prwqypoyrgo, h opoia anaferotan sta problhmata poy eixe, tote, paroysiasei to FALCON. Einai prin apo thn ekqesh Tsolakh, h opoia einai to Septembrio. Ayth thn epistolh, legetai oti o Prwqypoyrgos den thn phre sta xeria toy. Emeine sta syrtaria toy k. Kosmidh. Einai alhqeia ayto;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti h kybernhsh, me prwtoboylia ths, edwse sth dhmosiothta ena fakelo me shmantika kai diafwtistika eggrafa gia to aeroskafos ayto. Prin apo ligoys mhnes, to aeroskafos, opws gnwrizete, eixe metaferqei sth Gallia, opoy elegxqhke kai episkeyasthke apo thn kataskeyastria etaireia. To aeroskafos ayto, opws diapistwqhke se oles tis periptwseis, kriqhke oti einai ploimo kai gi` ayto akribws oydeis mporei na kathgorhsei kapoion oti en gnwsei toy pws yparxei kindynos gia th zwh anqrwpwn, epetrece th xrhsimopoihsh toy.

ALEJAKH: O Prwqypoyrgos eide thn epistolh toy k. Mantelh;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai gnwsths olwn aytwn twn qematwn. Exei labei epistoles, exei dwsei odhgies kai entoles oxi twra, meta to tragiko symban, alla pantote- gia thn kalyterh leitoyrgia twn armodiwn yphresiwn, prokeimenoy na ejasfalizetai to ajioploimo toy sygkekrimenoy aeroskafoys, sto opoio, opws gnwrizete, syxna epebaine kai o Prwqypoyrgos, sto plaisio apostolwn toy. Epanalambanw, oti prin apo 20 hmeres tajidece sthn Kastoria, kateyqynomenos stis Prespes, kai ligo kairo prin sto Saragebo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti epiqymeite, to syntomotero dynato, na oloklhrwqei h ereyna. Alla, den biazeste, prepei na einai emperistatwmenh. Mexri to telos Oktwbrioy den qa exei bgei to porisma;

REPPAS: Pisteyoyme oti mexri to telos Oktwbrioy mporei h ereyna ayth na exei oloklhrwqei. Alla, den qetoyme ek twn proterwn kapoio xroniko orio, giati den qeloyme oyte kai ws pros ayto to shmeio na paremboyme sto ergo twn ereynhtwn. Pisteyoyme, omws, oti o xronos ston opoio anafereste, san xronos oriakos gia thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn, einai arketos. Eparkei gia thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, giati to topoqethsate prohgoymenws, oti ekane h Ajiwmatikh Antipoliteysh mia protash sthn Ejetastikh Epitroph, xwris na yparxei to porisma ths ereynas. Gi ayto rwtaw, mexri tote den to blepete na teleiwnei;

REPPAS: Den qa htan pio ypeyqyno, apo thn pleyra ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs na anamenei thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn, na anamenei thn ekdosh toy porismatos, na to ajiologhsei, afoy to melethsei, kai na diatypwsei thn protash ths; Qa htan poly pio ypeyqyno. Ayth einai h dikh mas qesh, h qesh poy epilegoyme na thrhsoyme, giati den qeloyme na dhmagwgoyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eseis bgalate porisma xqes. Eipate oti den yparxoyn politikes eyqynes.

REPPAS: Ayth einai h entypwsh sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den to eipate;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw oti den einai dynaton enas ypoyrgos na exei politikes eyqynes gia to endexomeno na exoyn eyqynes kata thn askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toys oi ypallhloi mias etaireias, mias Yphresias. Prwta ap` ola, den einai diapistwmeno an yparxoyn aytes oi eyqynes. Alla kai an -gia thn oikonomia ths syzhthshs- dexqw oti ayto mporei na symbei, diapistwqei, dhladh, oti kapoioi exoyn eyqynes, apo poy ki ws poy, qa prepei na parasyretai kai o armodios politikos proistamenos, o ypoyrgos; O ypoyrgos den gnwrizei ton kaqe ypallhlo. Den einai aytos o opoios prosdiorizei poia kaqhkonta qa exei, sto plaisio mias etaireias, enas sygkekrimenos ypallhlos. Ayto einai qema ths idias ths etaireias. Mh ginetai ayth h sygxysh kai ayth h anagwgh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, edw den yparxei sygkekrimenos ypallhlos. Edw emplekontai polloi ypallhloi kai ychla istamenoi ypallhloi, oi opoioi einai diorismenoi, topoqethmenoi apo thn kybernhsh, apo ton ypoyrgo. Den exei eyqynh o ypoyrgos; Aplws ypoyrgeyei; Ti kanei;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti h kybernhsh diorizei th Dioikhsh ths Olympiakhs. H O. A. opws kai oi alles etaireies exoyn seira stelexwn, ekatontades h xiliades ypallhloys poy askoyn ta kaqhkonta toys, poly prin h kybernhsh ayth analabei th diakybernhsh toy topoy. Kai qa ta askoyn gia arketa xronia akomh, toylaxiston oi neoteroi. Den exei h askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toys kamia sxesh me parembash gia to diorismo toys se sygkekrimena kaqhkonta apo thn kybernhsh. Me ayth thn ennoia mhn kanete aytoy toy eidoys "alma logikhs", giati pisteyw oti einai antideontologiko. Den einai orqo na taytizoyme ena politiko proswpo, enan ypoyrgo, me tis prajeis enos ypallhloy. Poly perissotero, ayth thn wra, poy oydeis mporei na pei oti enas ypallhlos me tis prajeis toy eblace thn etaireia h odhghse sth dhmioyrgia aytoy toy tragikoy apotelesmatos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Efoson ton k. Tsagkarakh ton exei diorisei to D. S. ths O. A. giati phge o ypoyrgos kai toy fwnaje "dolofone, paraithsoy";

REPPAS: Apanthsame se ola ayta ta qemata. Gnwrizw oti yparxei logos kai endiaferon na synthreitai mia tetoia syzhthsh. Einai poly axaro, omws, ews qlibero h syzhthsh ayth na synthreitai otan afora tetoio qema.

FILHS: Eipate oti h kybernhsh, se allo xrono kai afoy oloklhrwqei to porisma, einai diateqeimenh na syzhthsei thn protash gia th sygkrothsh Ejetastikhs Epitrophs. H sygkrothsh ayths ths epitrophs den einai mia typikh diadikasia, einai politikh diadikasia. Dedomenoy oti yparxei mia dikastikh ereyna se ejelijh, ti mporei na xrhsimeysei h sygkrothsh ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs; Ap` oti katalabainw mono na diereynhsei profaneis politikes eyqynes.

REPPAS: Hmoyn poly safhs kai xairomai gia thn epixeirhmatologia thn opoia symperilabate gia na diatypwsete thn erwthsh sas. Qa prepei, loipon -ayto einai deigma sobarothtas kai ypeyqynothtas- na anamenoyme thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn, na diatypwqei ena porisma kai me bash to yliko ayto poy qa exoyme sth diaqesh mas, staqmizontas ta dedomena, staqmizontas ola ta stoixeia, na laboyme thn apofash mas. Etsi blepoyme to qema. Den blepoyme to qema san prospaqeia na ''yfarpajoyme'' ton elegxo mias ereynas, opws kapoioi isws qa hqelan kai na kaqodhghsoyme tis diadikasies, wste h ereyna na odhghqei se ena prokaqorismeno apotelesma. Oxi mono den to qeloyme, alla qa eimaste oi eggyhtes, wste kamia dynamh na mhn parembei kai prokaqorisei thn poreia twn ereynwn. Prepei na meinoyn aperispastoi sto ergo toys oi empeirognwmones, oloi ekeinoi poy exoyn analabei ayto to rolo kai na ton feroyn se peras me epityxia.

FILHS: Dhladh, h kybernhsh qewrei oti mporei na prokycoyn politikes eyqynes tetoies poy mporei na diereynhqoyn;

REPPAS: H kybernhsh to mono poy kanei, einai na eggyatai oti ayth h diadikasia qa einai aprosblhth apo opoiadhpote ejwqen parembash. Ayto exei kanei h kybernhsh, aytos einai o rolos poy qewroyme oti prepei na epitelesoyme se ayth thn fash.

FILHS: Sygnwmh, k. Ypoyrge, h kybernhsh me thn airesh ths ekdosews toy porismatos, qewrei oti mporei na yparjoyn politikes eyqynes, tis opoies qa diereynhsei h Boylh me Ejetastikh Epitroph; Giati tote einai bebaiws o k. Mantelhs...;

REPPAS: An mporeite k. Filh na moy peite poio einai to periexomeno toy porismatos, mporw na topoqethqw ep` aytoy. Mexri na maqoyme omws, to periexomeno toy porismatos, ayto as to apofygoyme.

FILHS: Dhladh, den exei o k. Mantelhs thn empistosynh ths kybernhshs;

REPPAS: Apanthsa xqes s` ayto kai hmoyn safhs.

FILHS: Shmera, lete oti perimenete to porisma gia na katalabete an yparxoyn politikes eyqynes. Ayto einai to neo stoixeio;

REPPAS: Hmoyn poly safhs. To qema ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs einai kati poy qa to antimetwpisoyme thn katallhlh stigmh, otan exei oloklhrwqei o kyklos twn ereynwn. Ayto einai deigma sobarothtas kai ypeyqynothtas. Apo kei kai pera, o k. Mantelhs synexizei na einai ypoyrgos Metaforwn. Askei ta kaqhkonta toy se olo ton tomea twn armodiothtwn toy kai epiprosqetws exei entolh apo ton Prwqypoyrgo me thn paroysia toy na parakoloyqhsei kai na eggyhqei to antikeimeniko kai adiablhto aytwn twn ereynwn. Ayto qa ginei. Eimai poly safhs.

MIXAHL: Mesa apo olh ayth th filologia peri porismatos k. lp. mia einai h koinh diapistwsh, thn opoia kai h kybernhsh exei dexqei: oti kati den paei kala sto basileio ths Olympiakhs. Mhpws, loipon, hrqe h wra na anaqewrhsete thn politikh sas kai na poylhsete thn etairia; Na teleiwnoyn kai kabgades tsagkarakhdwn, oi kabgades twn allwn pasokwn, oi kabgades twn anqrwpwn toy Mantelh, oi kabgades twn Egglezwn. Edw apodeiknyetai oti yparxei ena problhma. Mhpws, loipon, einai wra na to lysete ayto kai na peite, kyrioi pwleitai;

REPPAS: H politikh ths kybernhshs, oson afora thn ejygiansh kai thn anaptyjh ths O. A., paramenei h idia. Einai gnwsth se esas. Den allazei tipota ws pros ayto. Qa htan astoxo na syndesoyme ta dyo gegonota: to ena, poy einai to tragiko symban kai to allo, poy einai oi prospaqeies poy ginontai gia thn anakamch ths O. A.

PARIS: Shmera, to Xrhmatisthrio einai gyrw stis 6,5 monades katw. Qa hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Kykloi ths agoras ektimoyn oti h kaqeth ayth ptwsh exei sxesh me ta metra ta opoia anakoinwqhkan xqes. Lene, malista, oti ta xarakthrizei poly megalh asafeia. Se ena apo ayta ta metra lete oti oi metoxes, oi opoies exoyn megales diakymanseis, anamesa se polla alla, qa einai ypo epithrhsh. Den katalabainei h kybernhsh oti ayto perilambanei, mallon, thn pleiochfia metoxwn oi opoies exoyn mikres h mesaies kefalopoihseis;

REPPAS: H kybernhsh se oloys toys tomeis -kai sto sygkekrimeno- akoloyqei mia politikh arxwn. Den akoloyqei politikh skopimothtas, epidiwkontas na ejyphrethsei kapoioys kai, taytoxrona, na blacei kapoioys alloys. Oson afora, pio sygkekrimena to Xrhmatisthrio, h kybernhsh epairne kai pairnei diarkws metra, prokeimenoy na diasfalisei th diafanh kai ygih leitoyrgia toy kai na prostateysei toys mikroependytes, toys metoxoys, to koino. Ayth einai h ypoxrewsh ths kybernhshs. To Xrhmatisthrio einai enas anaptyjiakos qesmos kai gi` ayto, akribws, to logo, to sthrijame, to sthrizoyme kai qa to sthrizoyme. Oi diakymanseis oi opoies kata kairoys parathroyntai, anhkoyn sth fysiologia ths leitoyrgias toy Xrhmatisthrioy. Den synistoyn paqologia, oson afora th leitoyrgia toy. Ayto to opoio eseis qa prepei na krathsete einai oti ola ta metra poy pairnei h kybernhsh, stoxeyoyn sth qwrakish toy Xrhmatisthrioy kai thn prostasia toy koinoy. Aytos einai o stoxos kai h epidiwjh ths kybernhshs. Kata ta alla, den parembainoyme sta eswterika ths leitoyrgias toy. Einai qema to opoio afora toys epixeirhmaties, oi etaireies twn opoiwn einai eishgmenes sto Xrhmatisthrio, opws epishs kai toys metoxoys, toys ependytes, toys opoioys kai pali kaloyme na epideijoyn cyxraimia, nhfaliothta, na einai enhmerwmenoi kai na kanoyn tis epiloges toys, symfwna me ta osa ekeinoi qewroyn oti prepei na kanoyn. Pantote, omws, me tropo o opoios exei sxesh me thn pragmatikothta toy Xrhmatisthrioy.

PARIS: Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti h pleiochfia twn mikroependytwn exei ayth thn wrimothta;

REPPAS: Einai kati to opoio den qa to krinei h kybernhsh. H kybernhsh den exei kapoio "wrimometro" wste na metra thn wrimothta aytwn poy pairnoyn meros sth leitoyrgia toy Xrhmatisthrioy. Mh moy apeyqynete tetoia erwthsh. H kybernhsh ayto to opoio kanei einai na qwrakisei to Xrhmatisthrio, wste na leitoyrgei me diafaneia kai me ygih tropo.

PARIS: Fhmologeitai oti qa ginoyn prowres ekloges, pali, mesa apo kykloys ths agoras. Yparxei tetoio endexomeno;

REPPAS: Den yparxei tetoio qema. Oyte kan yparxei sth skech toy Prwqypoyrgoy tetoio qema.

KARELIAS: An yphrxe, qa mas to legate, k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: An yphrxe, qa htan ekdhlo, pleon. Akomh ki an emeis den diatypwname mia tetoia ektimhsh h den kaname sxetikh proanaggelia, eseis qa eixate antilhfqei poy poreyomaste. Enw, twra, jerete oti exoyme orizonta to telos ths tetraetias, me bash ton kybernhtiko sxediasmo. Emeis eimaste poy shkwsame th shmaia ths anagkhs na apofygoyme thn prowrh prosfygh stis kalpes, me aformh th diadikasia ths ekloghs Proedroy ths Dhmokratias, ton epomeno Martio. Alloi einai aytoi oi opoioi epiqymoyn thn prowrh prosfygh stis kalpes. Emeis s` ayto exoyme parei safh qesh. Eimaste oi teleytaioi oi opoioi mporei na kathgorhqoyme, an ayto synista kathgoria, oti qeloyme prowres ekloges. Exoyme sygkekrimenoys stoxoys. Qeloyme na odhghsoyme thn Ellada sthn ONE. Qeloyme na enisxysoyme ayth thn anaptyjiakh poreia ths xwras. Qeloyme na diasfalisoyme to kratos dikaioy, to koinwniko kratos. Exoyme sygkekrimena problhmata na antimetwpisoyme s` ayth thn poreia, se dieqnes epipedo, alla kai sto eswteriko ths xwras, idiaitera ta problhmata poy exoyn prokycei meta thn prosfath fysikh katastrofh. Ayto mas kanei na eimaste pio ypeyqynoi. O kybernhtikos sxediasmos, loipon, exei orizonta poly sygkekrimeno kai den allazei.

PARIS: Pote qa energopoihqoyn ta metra gia to Xrhmatisthrio;

REPPAS: Exei kanei dhlwseis o Proedros toy Xrhmatisthrioy. Den qa mpoyme emeis se mia tetoia leptomerh syzhthsh. Tiqentai se efarmogh, amesws, efoson yparxei qesmikh kai texnikh proypoqesh. Ta metra ayta anakoinwqhkan gia na efarmostoyn.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Eipate oti den yparxei, oyte kata dianoia, sth skech toy Prwqypoyrgoy to endexomeno prowrwn eklogwn. Mhpws kapoioi ypoyrgoi to exoyn eishghqei ayto to endexomeno;

REPPAS: Den yparxei tetoio qema. Den exei ginei opoiadhpote tetoia syzhthsh. Eimai safhs kai kathgorhmatikos s` ayto.

MIXAHL: Erwthqhkate kai anaferate th frash "prowres ekloges". Mporeite na moy prosdiorisete gia na katanohsw, ti shmainei "prowres ekloges"; Einai shmantiko kai exei shmasia h apanthsh sas. Fainetai asteia h erwthsh, alla den einai kaqoloy. Telos ths tetraetias, shmainei Septembrios toy 2000. Prowres ekloges, mporei na shmainei adynamia ekloghs Proedroy. Prowres ekloges, mporei na shmainei gia opoiondhpote allo logo, nwritera apo thn eklogh Proedroy, to epomeno diasthma. Mporeite na moy prosdiorisete to ''prowres'' pws to ennoeite;

REPPAS: Giati kanete olo ayto ton kopo; Den eipa pio prin, oti o orizontas mas einai to telos ths tetraetoys qhteias ths kybernhshs, to Septembrio toy 2000;

MIXAHL: Gia thn kybernhsh, loipon, einai prowres ekloges, tyxon adynamia ekloghs Proedroy;

REPPAS: Nai, einai. Asfalws einai. Ma, den eipa prin, oti h prowrh prosfygh sthn kalph, me aformh th diadikasia ekloghs Proedroy Dhmokratias ton erxomeno Martio -ayto eipa prin me tis idies lejeis- einai kati to opoio emeis den epidiwkoyme kai den epiqymoyme; Alloi exoyn thn eyqynh gi` ayto.

Sas eyxaristw.

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