Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-11-30

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 30 Noembrioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas kai kalh ebdomada.

Na sas enhmerwsw synoptika gia to programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

* Ayth thn wra ekfwnei omilia sto Zappeio. Qa milhsoyn epishs o Ypoyrgos Paideias k. Arsenhs kai o Genikos Grammateas ths Neas Genias k. Sfhkakhs. H diaskech ayth anaferetai sta programmata drashs gia toys neoys katw twn 30 etwn, programmata ta opoia exei sygkrothsei kai efarmozei h kybernhsh.

* To apogeyma, stis 7 h wra, o Prwqypoyrgos qa brisketai ston Peiraia gia ta egkainia ths neas pterygas toy Arxaiologikoy Moyseioy Peiraia.

* Ayrio to prwi, stis 11, qa exei synergasia me ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn k. Papadopoylo. Stis 13.00 qa episkefqei ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias kai qa ton enhmerwsei gia tis politikes ejelijeis. H synanthsh ayth ginetai, sto plaisio twn taktikwn epafwn poy ginontai kaqe mhna. Mia wra argotera qa paraqesei geyma sto proedreio ths K. O. toy PASOK kai toys koinoboyleytikoys ekproswpoys. Sto geyma qa einai parontes kai oi kyrioi Geitonas, Pasxalidhs, Kosmidhs, Manikas kai Soyladakhs.

* Oson afora tis synergasies toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ypoyrgoys, gia qemata ths armodiothtas toys, ayth thn ebdomada, ayrio to apogeyma qa synanthqei me ton k. Laliwth, thn Tetarth to prwi qa exei synergasia me thn hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn kai ton k. Papantwnioy, enocei ths Synodoy Koryfhs ths Biennhs. To apogeyma ths idias hmeras, stis 7, qa dexqei ton kagkelario ths Aystrias k. Klima, o opoios episkeptetai thn Ellada, me thn idiothta toy ws proedreyonta ths E. E..

* Thn Pempth to prwi qa synergastei me thn hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ergasias, enocei ths Synodoy Koryfhs ths E. E., gia qemata poy aforoyn thn apasxolhsh. To meshmeri, qa exei eyrytath syskech me th symmetoxh kybernhtikwn kai kommatikwn paragontwn gia to qema twn eyrweklogwn.

* Thn Paraskeyh to prwi, stis 10, qa synedriasoyn apo koinoy h Kybernhtikh Epitroph kai h Politikh Grammateia toy PASOK. To meshmeri, stis 3, o Prwqypoyrgos anaxwrei gia th Germania, opoy to Sabbato qa synanthqei me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Fisser kai th Deytera qa exei synanthseis me ton kagkelario k. Srenter kai ton k. Lafonten.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Me ti qema qa synedriasoyn h Kybernhtikh Epitroph kai h Politikh Grammateia;

REPPAS: Gia qemata ths epikairothtas. Gnwrizete oti ayta ta organa syzhtoyn gia tis politikes ejelijeis. Qa syzhthsoyme gia to pws ejelixqhke to qema twn nomoqetikwn prwtoboyliwn poy analabame gia to xwro twn metaforwn. Gi` ayto einai piqanotato na einai parwn kai o k. Mantelhs, para to oti den einai melos twn dyo aytwn organwn. Syzhtoyntai qemata ths epikairothtas. Anefera ena endeiktika. H atzenta einai anoikth.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Thn Tetarth den qa ginei h "Wra toy Prwqypoyrgoy";

REPPAS: Den qa ginei h synedriash ayth, doqentos oti ekeinh thn wra o Prwqypoyrgos qa dexetai ton k. Klima.

ELENOPOYLOS: Mia dieykrinish qa hqela: Thn Pempth to prwi, ayth h eyrytath syskech, qa einai mono gia tis eyrwekloges h kai gia alles ekloges;

REPPAS: Ayth th dieykrinish qelete; Labate apanthsh kata thn eisagwgh moy, otan sas enhmerwna gia to programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy. To eipa kai hmoyn safhs, hmoyn analytikos. Qa eixa kapoio logo na anaferqw kai se kati allo, an yphrxe ayto to allo.

MIXAHL: Eseis, poies eggyhseis blepete oti den qa ginoyn alles ekloges; Epeidh eipate oti hsastan safhs sthn apanthsh sas...

REPPAS: Hmoyn poly safhs. Eipa oti h syskech einai gia tis eyrwekloges. Exoyme apanthsei gia to qema ayto, twn prowrwn eklogwn, poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs. Gnwrizete poly kala oti einai qema epiloghs toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhshs na mhn proxwrhsei se prowres ekloges h xwra. Nomizw, omws, oti apo th stigmh poy emeis exoyme jekaqarisei, me kaqe tropo, poia einai h epilogh mas, poios einai o orizontas ths qhteias ayths ths kybernhshs, den prepei ki eseis na qetete analoga erwthmata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eida olo to programma poy mas dwsate. Den blepw thn kybernhsh na thn apasxoloyn oi apergies poy ginontai. Exoyme mparaz apergiwn. Den blepw na thn apasxolei.

REPPAS: Thn Kybernhsh thn apasxolei to qema twn kinhtopoihsewn. Oson afora epimeroys tomeis, gnwrizete oti yparxoyn oi armodioi ypoyrgoi poy asxoloyntai me ta qemata diaforwn koinwnikwn omadwn. H kybernhsh den einai monon o Prwqypoyrgos. Einai oi ypoyrgoi poy exoyn sygkekrimenes armodiothtes, einai kai organa diypoyrgika, ta opoia epilambanontai qematwn poy aptontai twn armodiothtwn aytwn twn organwn. Mas apasxolei para poly ayto to qema. Pisteyoyme oti oi kinhtopoihseis, para to oti den einai ena eyxaristo fainomeno, kinoyntai s` ena plaisio to opoio apo th mia dhlwnei to endiaferon twn ergazomenwn diaforwn kathgoriwn na prowqhsoyn ta qemata toys, apo thn allh, qa elega, to plaisio einai ena plaisio poy mporei na pei kaneis oti einai to gnwsto, ana etos, epanalambanomeno plaisio kinhtopoihsewn. Pisteyw, oti h Kybernhsh, exei deijei diaqesh dialogoy kai synennohshs gia ola ayta ta qemata. Apo thn allh, omws, den einai diateqeimenh na kanei "pisw" stis periptwseis ekeines poy oi ryqmiseis, stis opoies exoyme proxwrhsei, einai dikaies kai logikes. Anamenei apo thn allh pleyra na prajei to idio, na proselqei, dhladh, mesw mias diadikasias dialogoy kai synennohshs se epafh me thn kybernhsh gia apo koinoy antimetwpish twn problhmatwn poy exoyn prokycei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Otan lete "thn allh pleyra" poioys ennoeite;

REPPAS: Thn kaqe fora allh pleyra: toys ergazomenoys, poy eite einai sto xwro ths ekpaideyshs, eite einai sto xwro twn oikonomikwn yphresiwn, eite einai sto xwro twn sygkoinwniwn, proballoyn qemata toys. Ta qemata ayta, ta opoia qetoyn me tis kinhtopoihseis toys, einai gnwsta sthn kybernhsh. Pisteyoyme oti h antimetwpish twn qematwn einai efikth mono mesw ths diadikasias toy dialogoy kai ths synennohshs kai oxi ths antiparaqeshs. Ayto epiqymei h kybernhsh. Otan, bebaiws, einai safes pros oloys oti oi epiloges poy exoyn ginei gia basika qemata kybernhtikhs epiloghs einai epiloges, oi opoies den ypokeintai se opoiasdhpote morfhs diapragmateysh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exete kanei dialogo me kapoioys apo aytoys;

REPPAS: Me oloys, kat` epanalhch.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Me toys telwneiakoys;

REPPAS: Me oloys, kat` epanalhch. Toso to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, oso kai to Ypoyrgeio Ergasias.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ef` oson me to ypoyrgeio, opws lete, oi ypoyrgoi den mporesan "na ta broyn", mhpws o Prwqypoyrgos qa parembei;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei dwsei odhgies, kateyqynseis stoys armodioys ypoyrgoys. Enhmerwnetai plhrws kai einai ekeinos o opoios orizei kai to plaisio entos toy opoioy qa kinoyntai ta kybernhtika organa, eite einai ypoyrgoi kai yfypoyrgoi, eite einai diypoyrgikes epitropes.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Omws, shmera, ftasame sto shmeio ta benzinadika na einai kleista, na mhn yparxei benzinh, na mhn yparxei petrelaio, poso kairo qa "trabhjei" ayto to pragma; Den sas apasxolei;

REPPAS: Pws den mas apasxolei. Twra poy ftasame, meta apo para polla xronia, na exoyme meiwseis ths timhs ths benzinhs, twn kaysimwn, genika, sthn Ellada, blepete oti exoyme ayth th dyskolia. Den mporei na exoyme panta eyxaristes ejelijeis. Exoyme kai ejelijeis tetoies oi opoies dhmioyrgoyn mia dysareskeia, dioti pantote prokyptoyn problhmata, epeidh pantote ta aithmata poy diatypwnontai qa yperbainoyn tis pragmatikes dynatothtes mias oikonomias -ths ellhnikhs oikonomias en prokeimenw- alla kai ths koinhs logikhs, qa moy epitrecete na prosqesw. Otan miloyme gia telwneiakoys ypallhloys, oi opoioi epimenoyn sth diathrhsh enos tameioy, to opoio synthreitai apo enan koinwniko poro, poro dhladh poy plhrwnoyn tritoi, den qigontai symferonta toys. Oi syntajeis tis opoies qa lambanoyn -kai milw gia tis epikoyrikes syntajeis- qa einai ychloteres, oson afora to pososto toys apo ayto poy xarakthrizei tis syntajeis poy lambanoyn oi alles kathgories twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Miloyme gia mia shmantikh diafora, 40% me 20%. Den einai dynaton, omws, na ginei dekth h emmonh toys sto na parameinei to tameio toys ektos ths diadikasias enopoihshs kai sygxwneyshs twn tameiwn, prokeimenoy na dhmioyrghqei ena megalo tameio epikoyrikhs asfalishs, gia to synolo twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Einai mia tomh sto asfalistiko systhma. Para polloi, ki eseis, kat` epanalhch, milate gia ta problhmata poy exoyn prokycei sto asfalistiko systhma ths xwras. Pairnoyme thn prwtoboylia na antimetwpisoyme ayta ta problhmata kai proxwroyme se ejygiantikes tomes kai ryqmiseis.

FILHS: Yparxei mia synenteyjh toy proedroy ths Komision k. Santer, o opoios leei oti tyxon prowres ekloges, ton Ioynio, den qa ephreasoyn thn poreia entajhs ths xwras sthn ONE, ef` oson threitai to programma sygklishs. Yparxei kapoio sxolio ek meroys ths kybernhshs;

REPPAS: Qa moy epitrecete -prin kanw ena sxolio- na xaritologhsw, me aformh thn erwthsh sas kai na pw oti o k. Santer qewrei oti akomh ki an ginoyn ekloges, h kybernhsh poy qa eklegei qa einai ayth h kybernhsh, ara den yparxei opoiosdhpote kindynos gia thn poreia ths xwras pros thn ONE. Den prokeitai, omws, peri aytoy.

KIAOS: Ayto eipe;

REPPAS: Opoia kybernhsh akoloyqhsei ayth thn politikh. Alla, gnwrizete oti thn politikh poy akoloyqei h dikh mas kybernhsh, thn kathgoroyn ola ta alla kommata. Omws, an qelete na kanw ena sobaro sxolio...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia thn ONE, den nomizw;

REPPAS:.. Ektos an kai ta alla kommata ensternizontai ayth thn politikh, k. Stamatopoyle, opote den yparxei logos na antipoliteyontai thn kybernhsh. San ton k. Karamanlh, o opoios ekane xqes mia omilia h opoia einai "periboli".

FILHS: Gia ton k. Santer peste mas.

REPPAS: Antilambanomai oti den sas aresoyn panta oi apanthseis moy, alla emena moy aresoyn panta oi erwthseis sas. Gia na meinw, omws, s` ayto to qema, prepei na sas pw oti o k. Santer epibebaiwse thn orqh poreia ths xwras, me bash thn politikh poy akoloyqei h kybernhsh. Exoyme proseggisei toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. To gegonos oti enas ychlobaqmos koinotikos paragontas epibebaiwnei thn orqothta twn epilogwn ths xwras mas, dhladh twn epilogwn ths kybernhshs, apotelei mia akomh phgh aisiodojias gia to mellon ths Elladas. O k. Santer den parembainei sta eswterika ths xwras kai den einai qema diko toy na pei an qa ginoyn ekloges h oxi. Oyte epediwje na kanei tetoio sxolio. Apla, apanthse se sygkekrimenh erwthsh poy toy teqhke, oson afora tis ekloges. O k. Santer, ws tritos, ws paragontas o opoios den exei opoiadhpote armodiothta, oyte ton ejoysiodothse kaneis na ekferei gnwmh epi toy sygkekrimenoy qematos, ekane mia politikh parathrhsh. Oson afora to qema, twra, twn prowrwn eklogwn, gnwrizete poia einai h qesh mas thn opoia epanalambanw.

FILHS: H erwthsh moy htan ean exete kapoio sxolio gia thn ektimhsh poy kanei enas koinotikos paragwn, o k. Santer, oti endexomenh proeklogikh kinhsh gia diples ekloges ton Ioynio den prokeitai na ephreasei thn poreia ths entajhs ths xwras mas sthn ONE.

REPPAS: "Ef` oson synexistei ayth h politikh", prosqese o k. Santer. Apanthsa prin. Edwsa kai mia apanthsh, xaritologwntas, ekana kai ena sobaro sxolio -entos kai ektos eisagwgikwn- gia na eiste plhrws kalymmenos. Den exw na prosqesw tipota allo.

FILHS: Fobaste oti ean ginoyn ekloges den qa synexistei h idia politikh;

REPPAS: Emeis pisteyoyme oti h mexri twra prospaqeia ths kybernhshs apodidei karpoys. Ayto to anagnwrizoyn sthn Eyrwph, to anagnwrizei o proedros ths Komision, enw thn idia stigmh sthn Ellada yparxoyn dynameis poy amfisbhtoyn to epiteygma, to opoio exoyme mexri twra prosferei sta qetika ths xwras me thn politikh poy akoloyqei h kybernhsh mas. Apo ekei kai pera den exoyme kanena fobo kai gia tipota. O fobos mas einai mhpws to 2000 h kybernhsh mas, otan erqei h wra na kriqei apo ton ellhniko lao, ypoleipetai twn prosdokiwn toy ellhnikoy laoy, giati h idia den qa exei ekplhrwsei to xreos ths apenanti ston ellhniko lao, apenanti ston idio ton eayton ths. Giati exoyme baqytath synaisqhsh toy xreoys mas apenanti ston ellhniko lao kai apenanti sthn patrida mas. To 2000 poy qa oloklhrwsoyme th qhteia mas kai qa kriqoyme apo ton ellhniko lao -kai apo esas, oxi mono ws tmhma toy ellhnikoy laoy, alla kai giati, ws leitoyrgoi twn MME, qa mporeite na milhsete gia to ergo ayto- pisteyw oti ta apotelesmata qa einai poly kala.

FILHS: Asfalws, gnwrizete, meta foboy gnwsews to eipate, ti shmainei otan fobatai mia kybernhsh oti qa ypoleipetai twn prosdokiwn toy laoy.

REPPAS: Panta exoyme ayto to fobo kai parakalw na mhn kanete to sxolio sthn efhmerida sas apomonwnontas ayth th frash, alla na dwsete oloklhrh thn apanthsh moy, oti ta apotelesmata qa einai poly kala. Giati, bebaiws, otan h kybernhsh qa exei oloklhrwsei th qhteia ths, to ergo to opoio qa ektimhsei tote o ellhnikos laos qa einai plhres. Parakalw, loipon, ki eseis sto sxolio sas na symperilabete olh thn apanthsh moy.

FILHS: Bebaiws. O fobos sas...

REPPAS: Egw zw diarkws me foboys. Kai prin apo to penalti kai meta to penalti, opws eipa kai se prosfath dihmerida poy organwse to Ypoyrgeio mas, se synergasia me ta panepisthmiaka tmhmata twn MME.

KIAOS: O Prwqypoyrgos sthn apanthsh toy ston prwqypoyrgo ths Bretanias k. Mpler gia ton trito dromo diapistwnei oti oi xwres toy Notoy, ara kai h Ellada, briskontai se poly megalh apostash apo to koinwniko kratos kai leei oti xwlainoyn shmantika stis basikes koinwnikes paroxes. Na symperanw apo ayto oti einai stis proqeseis toy na ayjhqoyn oi koinwnikes paroxes sto baqmo poy ejartatai apo thn kybernhsh kai oti ta kondylia gia ton koinwniko tomea qa ayjhqoyn akomh perissotero;

REPPAS: Ws pososto toy Akaqaristoy Egxwrioy Proiontos (AEP), ta kondylia poy diatiqentai gia koinwnikes dapanes kai koinwnikes paroxes einai shmantika sth xwra mas, einai ychla. Asfalws, omws, oi apolytoi ariqmoi, ws megeqos, den exoyn th diastash poy exoyn stis alles aneptygmenes xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Ayto poy prokyptei apo thn erwthsh sas -kai ayto parakalw na sygkrathsete- einai toyto: Oti o dialogos aytos h o problhmatismos -gia na eimai pio akribhs- poy exei anaptyxqei se diaforoys kykloys ths E. E. peri ths endexomenhs prooptikhs na katarghqei h leitoyrgia diarqrwtikwn tameiwn h na pacoyn na yfistantai kwdikoi ariqmoi, mesw twn opoiwn dioxeteyontai poroi stis ligotero aneptygmenes xwres, prokeimenoy na ftasoyn sto epipedo twn aneptygmenwn xwrwn, einai enas problhmatismos poy prepei na stamathsei sth genesh toy. Den mas briskei symfwnoys. Kai toyto giati ayth h calida poy einai anoikth, poy yparxei metajy aneptygmenwn xwrwn ths E. E. kai xwrwn poy einai ligotero aneptygmenes, qa kleisei mono an synexistei h enisxysh me koinotikoys poroys twn ligotero aneptygmenwn xwrwn, prokeimenoy na anabaqmisoyn to epipedo toys. Ayto einai to nohma ths epishmanshs poy kanei o Prwqypoyrgos. Den qa prepei, sto plaisio ths koinwnikhs politikhs, na yparxei opoiadhpote epifylajh gia th synexish ths leitoyrgias twn diarqrwtikwn programmatwn, diarqrwtikwn tameiwn poy stoxeyoyn sthn enisxysh twn asqenesterwn oikonomika xwrwn ths E. E..

KIAOS: Ayto einai h mia pleyra. Egw anaferomai me thn erwthsh moy sthn eqnikh pleyra. An ejypakoyetai me th diapistwsh poy kanei o Prwqypoyrgos, oti qa ayjhqoyn ta kondylia twn paroxwn apo pleyras eqnikhs, epanalambanw, ston koinwniko tomea.

REPPAS: An me kaleite na eiselqw sto xwro ths paroxologias, den qa antapokriqw. Sas lew toyto: Ta kondylia gia koinwnikes paroxes, ta kondylia poy anaferontai sthn koinwnikh politikh sthn Ellada, einai se ychla pososta. Einai apo ta ychlotera, sto plaisio ths E. E.. Enw se alles xwres exoyme meiwseis, sthn Ellada exoyme ayjhseis stoys tomeis aytoys. Apo ekei kai pera mhn parablepete oti yparxoyn kai allages poy aforoyn qesmoys, aforoyn th diarqrwsh ths leitoyrgias ths oikonomias h ths ergasias, se polles xwres kai sth dikh mas. Allages, oi opoies einai eykolo na ginoyn kai sthn patrida mas ta epomena xronia, ef` oson -kai dikaiologeitai h aisiodojia s` aythn thn kateyqynsh- synexizontas ayth thn politikh, petyxoyme toys oikonomikoys kai koinwnikoys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. O Prwqypoyrgos molis proxqes -kai periorizomai s` ena paradeigma mono- anaferqhke sto 35wro, legontas oti einai kati to opoio sto kontino mellon kai katw apo orismenes proypoqeseis, qa to antimetwpisoyme ki emeis. Pisteyw oti ayto mazi kai me desmh allwn metrwn kai prwtoboyliwn mporei na analhfqoyn thn katallhlh stigmh, otan pleon qa exoyme oloklhrwsei ayton ton kyklo, ston opoio hdh briskomaste shmera, para to oti eimaste sthn telikh eyqeia gia thn entajh ths xwras sthn ONE. Dhmioyrgoyntai nees synqhkes, ara dhmioyrgoyntai kai nees proypoqeseis.

KIAOS: Gia na teleiwsw, ayto mono qelw na moy peite, epeidh leei o idios o Prwqypoyrgos "xwlainoyn" shmantika stis basikes koinwnikes paroxes oi xwres toy Notoy symperilambanomenhs kai ths Elladas, den ejaireitai. Ayto pws qa diorqwqei, pera apo ta koinotika kondylia. ;

REPPAS: Shmasia exei poio einai to metro sygkrishs. Otan h sygkrish ginetai me tis aneptygmenes xwres toy eyrwpaikoy borra, asfalws oi xwres toy Notoy xwlainoyn.

KIAOS: Oxi, to "jekaqarizei" o Prwqypoyrgos.

REPPAS: An qelete na sygkrinoyme thn Ellada me alles xwres ths perioxhs, antilambaneste pws h Ellada brisketai se ena poly ychlotero epipedo.

FILHS: Thn Albania ennoeite;

REPPAS: Ara, loipon, qa prepei panta na ejetazete, gia na bgalete to symperasma sas, se poion didetai ayth h apanthsh kai me poia eykairia didetai. Didetai ws apanthsh se mia epistolh poy estalh kai h apanthsh ayth afora to synolo ths politikhs poy prepei na akoloyqhsei h E. E. gia koinwnika qemata.

KIAOS: Oxi, epitrecte moy. Jexwrizei tis xwres toy Borra kai tis koinwnikes paroxes poy einai...

REPPAS: Ti lew tosh wra egw; Sygkrinei tis xwres toy eyrwpaikoy Notoy me tis pio aneptygmenes xwres toy eyrwpaikoy Borra. An to metro sygkrishs, loipon, einai to epipedo diabiwshs poy exoyn oi ergazomenoi ston eyrwpaiko Borra, xwlainoyme kai eimaste pisw oi xwres toy eyrwpaikoy Notoy. Ayto lew tosh wra.

KIAOS: Ara, den sygkrinomaste me thn Albania. Ayto exei shmasia. Gi ayto sas lew ti qa kanoyme; Ti qa kanete eseis dhladh;

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, xarh s' ayth thn kybernhsh, h Ellada exei petyxei edw kai arketa xronia na mhn exei opoiadhpote sxesh me to epipedo zwhs poy synanta kaneis se geitonikes xwres. Xarh s' ayth thn kybernhsh, plhsiazoyme olo kai perissotero tis xwres ths E. E. kai apomakrynomaste olo kai perissotero, qeamatika kai oristika apo alles xwres ths perioxhs ston koinwniko kai oikonomiko tomea.

KIAOS: Eilikrina Ypoyrge moy, o idios o Prwqypoyrgos bazei xwria tis xwres toy Borra kai xwria tis xwres toy Notoy kai leei ekei symbainoyn ayta kai ekeina edw. Gia edw leei prepei na ayjhqoyn ta kondylia, dioti xwlainoyme, eimaste pisw. Ti qa kanei; Ayto rwtaw. Mono ayto rwtaw.

REPPAS: Ma, apanthsa prin, k. Kiao, me toses leptomereies kai ekplhssomai giati epanerxeste. Afoy, loipon, qelete na epanelqw, o Prwqypoyrgos leei oti emeis qa prepei na epityxoyme ton plhqwrismo poy exoyn oi aneptygmenes xwres toy Borra, prokeimenoy me thn apoklimakwsh twn epitokiwn, me th meiwsh twn elleimmatwn, h oikonomia mas na exei alles dynatothtes...

KIAOS: Koinwnikes paroxes leei.

REPPAS:... dynatothtes poy parexoyn thn eyxereia sthn kybernhsh na proxwrhsei se programmata koinwnikhs politikhs, poy shmera einai adynato na ta antejoyme. To ena exei synarthsh me to allo. Sas eipa oti h sygkrish einai me tis xwres toy aneptygmenoy Borra ths Eyrwphs kai exei sxesh me thn koinwnikh politikh poy akoloyqeitai, h opoia omws einai apotelesma ths anaptyjhs poy exoyn petyxei oi xwres aytes. Anaptyjh thn opoia epitygxanoyme ki emeis ta teleytaia xronia, wste syntoma na eimaste se qesh na efarmosoyme kai tetoies koinwnikes politikes. Den htan safes ayto poy lew tosh wra;

SOYRMELH: Qelw na rwthsw dyo pragmata; To prwto, afora thn epistolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy ston k. Mpler. Epeidh to gramma toy k. Mpler den to exw kai epeidh etsi opws diatypwnetai me para poly baqos, einai, endexomenws, poly lepto to na kanoyme kritikh epi toy qematos, aporriptei h dexetai tis protaseis toy k. Mpler; Dexomai oti yparxei pagkosmiopoihsh, exei mia endeijh, ta ypoloipa einai akoma pio asafh. To erwthma einai, thn aporriptei h th dexetai h th syzhtaei h ti syzhtaei akribws; To deytero, erwthma, to opoio den afora to gramma, epeidh tis teleytaies hmeres anakalyca egw proswpika thn eyaisqhsia ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, ws pros thn ayqaireth ekdosh allodapoy se mia xwra mh eyrwpaikh, opoy isxyei h qanatikh poinh kai meta apo to arqro poy exei sthn "EJOYSIA" gia enan Syro poy kindyneyei na apelaqei ana pasa stigmh, qa hqela th qesh ths kybernhshs.

REPPAS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh efarmozei toys nomoys poy isxyoyn sto kratos mas. H Ellada einai ena kratos dikaioy. Isxyoyn kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh ayta poy isxyoyn gia oloys toys polites, oi opoioi briskontai sthn Ellada kai antimetwpizontai me bash ta pistopoihtika ta opoia feroyn kai o elegxos toys ypokeitai stoys nomoys toy kratoys. Den ginontai ejaireseis, oyte diakritikh metaxeirish gia opoiondhpote. Oson afora to prwto erwthma sas, o Prwqypoyrgos gia ta qemata ths poreias ths Eyrwphs ta epomena xronia, exei kataqesei to Mnhmonio sth ektakth Synodo Koryfhs poy egine sto Pertsax ths Aystrias. Exei kat' epanalhch milhsei gia ta qemata ths apasxolhshs. Eimaste apo tis xwres poy, opws exw pei kat' epanalhch, prwtagwnistoyme stis diadikasies sto plaisio ths E. E. gia th sxhmatopoihsh, morfopoihsh mias politikhs, h opoia exei stoxo thn antimetwpish toy megaloy problhmatos ths anergias. Apo kei kai pera, kat' epanalhch, anaferqhke se ayta ta qemata o Prwqypoyrgos. Qa prepei thn epistolh toy ayth na thn entajete se ayto ton problhmatismo poy anaptyssetai sthn Eyrwph h na thn entajete sth dikh toy syneisfora, h opoia pisteyw oti einai, oxi aplws eparkhs, alla ploysia, symfwna me ta eyrwpaika dedomena, ston eyrwpaiko dialogo gia ton koinwniko xarakthra ths Eyrwphs toy 21oy aiwna. Ayto einai kai tipota allo.

KARAMPASHS: Dyo erwthseis: Epeidh xqes o Kyprios Proedros k. Klhridhs eipe oti h protash gia th metafora twn S-300 sthn Krhth einai mia idea twn Amerikanwn kai twn Bretanwn, yparxei kapoio sxolio gi ayto;

REPPAS: Efoson o k. Klhridhs to eipe ayto, me rwtate na epibebaiwsw h na diaceysw ton k. Klhridh;

KARAMPASHS: Epeidh egine syzhthsh sth synedriash ths Paraskeyhs kai grafthkan kai akoysthkan polla gia to oti htan ellhnikh h den htan h protash, qelw to sxolio ths kybernhshs.

REPPAS: O k. Klhridhs eipe ayto, to opoio antapokrinetai sta pragmata.

KARAMPASHS: Kai mia deyterh diaforetikh erwthsh se allo qema: Epeidh shmera grafetai sthn "AQHNAtKH" oti o mesos ethsios ryqmos ayjhshs twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn kineitai apo to 1981 mexri to 1997 me ryqmo 1,49%, peripoy 2%, otan o mesos ethsios ryqmos ayjhshs twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn sthn E. E. einai ths tajhs toy 0,2%. Pws to ermhneyete;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti me thn entajh ths xwras mas sthn E. E. exoyn dhmioyrghqei nees yphresies. Asfalws, o ariqmos twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn kineitai sta epipeda poy anaferqhkate. Qa prepei, omws, na kanw mia dieykrinish poy pisteyw oti einai xrhsimh sthn prokeimenh periptwsh, giati me toys ariqmoys poy anaferontai sto dhmosieyma ayto, to arqro katalhgei sto politiko symperasma oti ayth h diadikasia ths leitoyrgias twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn h toy ychloy ariqmoy toys apotelei oysiastika thn politikh bash gia thn anaparagwgh ths kyriarxias twn politikwn kommatwn, toy kybernhtikoy h toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs: Kai na pw -ayth einai h xrhsimh parathrhsh poy kanw- oti h kybernhsh mas einai ayth, h opoia me thn eisagwgh sth dhmosia dioikhsh newn qesmwn exei apo-idiopoihqei ejoysia, poy allote eixan oi kybernhseis sthn Ellada, me thn eisagwgh antikeimenikwn krithriwn. Gia thn eisagwgh, gia paradeigma, ypallhlwn sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh, gia th metaqesh h gia thn krish toys exei odhghsei sth dhmioyrgia enos neoy topioy. Ara, den einai h kybernhsh ekeinh, h opoia prospaqei kata ta pelateiaka protypa allwn epoxwn na ekmetalleyqei th sxesh ths me toys dhmosioys ypallhloys, afoy me qesmika metra kai allages, h kybernhsh odhgei ta pragmata ekei, wste na mhn exei o opoiosdhpote dhmosios ypallhlos isxyrh thn epidrash ths ekastote kybernhshs h twn politikwn kommatwn, kata thn askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toy.

Ayto einai h kalyterh apanthsh, sto symperasma sto opoio katalhgei o exwn kanei ayth thn ereyna, peri ths apolyths ejarthshs twn ypallhlwn apo ta politika kommata, pragma to opoio den einai alhqes.

KARAMPASHS: An moy epitrepete, exoyn dei to fws ths dhmosiothtas kataggelies kai apokalyceis akomh kai sth Boylh -kapoies apokalyce o k. Soyrlas- gia to pws exoyn eisaxqei oi dhmosioi ypallhloi, mesw toy ASEP, gia paradeigma, sta Nosokomeia. Qa hqela na mas sxoliasete kai to gegonos oti oi dhmosioi ypallhloi den ejartwntai mono apo ton tropo eisagwghs toys sto Dhmosio, alla kai thn ejelijh toys, baqmologika, proagwges k. lp.

REPPAS: Anaferqhka kai se ayta, milhsa gia th metaqesh toys, gia ton tropo me ton opoio ginetai h ajiologhsh toys. Exoyn antikeimenikopoihqei ta systhmata ayta, den exoyn kamia sxesh me tis empeiries toy parelqontos. Ayto, allwste, fainetai ston tropo me ton opoio oi dhmosioi ypallhloi ekdhlwnoyn tis apoceis toys, symmetexoyn se kinhtopoihseis prokeimenoy na probaloyn ta aithmata toys kai na diekdikhsoyn lysh yper twn symferontwn toys. Ola ayta deixnoyn oti exoyn kerdisei mia aytonomia, h opoia einai, se megalo baqmo, prosfora kai symbolh twn kybernhsewn toy PASOK kai apotelei stoixeio -qa moy epitrecete na pw- ygioys leitoyrgias twn qesmwn sthn patrida mas.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw ti sxolio kanei h Kybernhsh gia th shmerinh ereyna poy dhmosieyetai sthn efhmerida "TA NEA", opoy metajy allwn yparxei ena shmantiko pososto poy plhsiazei peripoy to miso twn erwthqentwn, to 50% dhladh, einai 43% kai kati, oi opoioi den einai ikanopoihmenoi, oson afora thn politikh toys, oyte apo ton k. Shmith, oyte apo ton k. Karamanlh, an kai yparxei to erwthma "poios einai ikanoteros Prwqypoyrgos h oxi". Alla sas lew oti gia prwth fora katagrafetai mia tash sthn koinh gnwmh oti einai koyrasmenoi kai o kosmos den ikanopoieitai apo toys dyo politikoys andres. Kai egw, bebaiws, rwtw thn kybernhsh gia ton Prwqypoyrgo, den me endiaferei gia ton k. Karamanlh.

REPPAS: Den sxoliazoyme dhmoskophseis. Asfalws, einai "ergaleia" ta opoia prepei na melethsoyme kai na laboyme ypoch mas. H kybernhsh krinetai apo to ergo ths se ena pragmatiko epipedo, enw h antipoliteysh -exw pei kat' epanalhch- krinetai se ena qewrhtiko epipedo. To "kampanaki" loipon, ean yparxei "kampanaki" ktypaei gia thn antipoliteysh sthn prokeimenh periptwsh. Kata ta alla, h kybernhsh den anadeiknyetai mesw dhmoskophsewn. Anadeiknyetai me thn chfo toy laoy mesw kalphs. H kybernhsh krinetai eyqews kai amesa thn wra twn eqnikwn eklogwn. Otan erqei, loipon, h wra twn eqnikwn eklogwn, to 2000, o ellhnikos laos pisteyw qa kanei pali mia epilogh, h opoia qa antapokrinetai stis anagkes ths xwras kai stis dikes toy epiqymies gia to mellon ayths ths xwras kai qa chfisei kai pali to PASOK, ws kybernhsh kai ton k. Shmith, ws Prwqypoyrgo ths xwras.

SOYRMELH: Epeidh den katalaba kala, sxetika me to qema toy Syroy, h kybernhsh, dhladh, prokeitai na apelasei ton Syro, par' olo ton kindyno poy ton apeilei gia qanatikh poinh;

REPPAS: Qa prepei na dieykrinisw oti den asxoleitai olh h kybernhsh me to qema toy Syroy, epeidh miloyme gia thn kybernhsh. Yparxoyn armodies yphresies, to armodio ypoyrgeio poy energei ta deonta symfwna me toys nomoys toy kratoys.

ALEJAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kanate mia dhlwsh me qema toys dhmosioys ypallhloys. Qa hqela na sas pw to ejhs, to gnwrizete isws, eimaste h monh eyrwpaikh xwra me toso megalo ariqmo dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, se sxesh me ton plhqysmo mas, ennow. Ayto den einai kapws parajeno; Kai malista na prosqesw kati: Einai koino mystiko, to syzhtoyn oloi, asxeta an den to paradexeste eseis, oti xrhsimopoioyntai oi proslhceis twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn apo tis ekastote kybernhseis. Kai den anaferomai mono se esas, milw gia tis ekastote kybernhseis. Ayto den epalhqeyei to dhmosieyma, to opoio anaferei oti xrhsimopoioyntai gi ayton to skopo oi dhmosioi ypallhloi;

REPPAS: Prwton, h dikh mas kybernhsh den xrhsimopoiei to qema twn proslhcewn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. To xrhsimopoioyn, se megalo baqmo ta entypa MME, poy otan yparxoyn paromoia qemata ta proballoyn prwtoselida gia na proselkysoyn to endiaferon twn anagnwstwn toys. Deyteron, egw qa symfwnhsw mazi sas, oti exoyme megalo ariqmo dhmosiwn ypallhlwn sth xwra mas, sygkritika me tis anagkes twn yphresiwn kai to megeqos ths xwras mas. Ayto h kybernhsh to dexetai ws ena pragmatiko problhma kai gi ayto akribws, me diaforoys tropoys -metajy twn allwn prowqei kai programmata prowrhs syntajiodothshs- prospaqoyme na antimetwpisoyme tis arnhtikes synepeies ayths ths pragmatikothtas. Sas kalw, omws, na ta peite eseis ayta stoys dhmosioys ypallhloys...

FILHS: Emeis;

REPPAS:... giati synhqws, otan oi dhmosioi ypallhloi probaloyn kapoia qemata, exw dei thn efhmerida sas kai genika ta MME na eyqygrammizontai me ta qemata twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn enantion ths kybernhshs. Bgeite, loipon, kai peite stoys dhmosioys ypallhloys, oti o ariqmos twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn einai para poly megalos sthn Ellada kai oti qa prepei na lhfqei pronoia, wste o ariqmos aytos na meiwqei sto apolytws aparaithto megeqos. Den mporei na eimaste kaqe fora me ayton o opoios mas ejyphretei. Yparxei ena tetoio problhma, yparxei yperfortwsh twn yphresiwn toy Dhmosioy kai parallhla yparxei xamhlh paragwgikothta sto Dhmosio. Ayta ta problhmata poy xronia twra exoyn swreytei prospaqoyme na ta antimetwpisoyme.

ALEJAKH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, omws, den kanoyn oi efhmerides tis proslhceis, opws, h "AQHNAtKH", to "BHMA", h "ELEYQEROTYPIA" h opoies alles anaferontai, tis kanoyn oi ekastote kybernhseis.

REPPAS: Asfalws, oi ekastote kybernhseis kanoyn tis proslhceis kai oi ekastote efhmerides kanoyn kritikh, monimws arnhtikh.

FILHS: O Prwqypoyrgos dhlwse proxqes oti einai yper toy na doqei asylo ston Koyrdo hgeth Otsalan, sthn Italia. Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean o Prwqypoyrgos exei metaferei armodiws ayth thn apoch ston Italo omologo toy k. Nt' Alema kai an yparxei kapoia symmetoxh ths kybernhshs sto plaisio ths E. E. gia na yparjei lysh sto problhma ayto.

REPPAS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh einai se epafh me alles kybernhseis ths E. E., epeidh apo thn prwth stigmh exoyme pei oti to qema ayto afora thn E. E. kai qa prepei na apotelesei antikeimeno syzhthshs sta eyrwpaika organa, prokeimenoy na odhghqoyme, isws, se mia diaskech, poy qa antimetwpisei to sygkekrimeno zhthma. Apo kei kai pera, o Prwqypoyrgos, proxqes, apanthse se sygkekrimenh erwthsh. Rwthqhke an symfwnei na doqei asylo ston k. Otsalan sthn Italia kai apanthse: Symfwnw na doqei asylo ston k. Otsalan sthn Italia. Htan parwn sth synenteyjh Typoy o presbhs ths filhs xwras, o opoios pisteyw oti kategrace ayth thn apanthsh. Ara, einai se gnwsh ths italikhs kybernhshs, h sygkekrimenh apanthsh poy edwse o Prwqypoyrgos, h opoia htan apanthsh se poly sygkekrimenh erwthsh poy toy teqhke.

FILHS: Se poio epipedo ths E. E. symmetexei h Ellada gia na breqei lysh sto Koyrdiko problhma;

REPPAS: To epipedo synergasias twn xwrwn ths E. E. synhqws einai to epipedo synergasias twn ypoyrgwn, ypoyrgwn anaplhrwtwn h yfypoyrgwn Ejwterikwn. Mesw aytwn twn kybernhtikwn paragontwn yparxei epikoinwnia me tis alles xwres ths E. E.

Eyxaristw poly.

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