Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-10-29

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 29 Oktwbrioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

* Arxika qa hqela na sas enhmerwsw gia th synergasia poy exei, ayth thn wra, o Prwqypoyrgos me to Slobeno omologo toy Gianez Ntrnobsek, poy episkeptetai th xwra mas.

* Ayrio, stis 10 to prwi, synedriazei, opws sas exw enhmerwsei, h Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Qema syzhthshs to G' Koinotiko Plaisio Sthrijhs. Sth synedriash, ektos twn melwn ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, qa symmetexoyn kai armodioi ypoyrgoi poy symmetexoyn sth Diypoyrgikh Epitroph proetoimasias toy G' Koinotikoy Plaisioy Sthrijhs. Exoyn klhqei oi k. Tzoymakas, Papaiwannoy, kaqws kai o armodios yfypoyrgos Eqnikhs Oikonomias, k. Paxtas.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela prwta ap` ola na sxoliasete thn orgilh epiqesh ths Toyrkias kata ths Elladas, meta to gnwsto ypomnhma ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs gia to qema xrhmatodothshs ths Toyrkias kai malista oti gia prwth fora h Toyrkia qetei kai qema Qrakhs. Qa hqela na sxoliasete, epishs, th qesh ths Gallias, poy gia allh mia fora, qetei ws aparaithto oro gia entajh ths Kyproy sthn E. E. na lyqei prwta to Kypriako.

REPPAS: Oson afora, thn anakoinwsh ths Toyrkias: To keimeno qesewn ths Toyrkias einai ypokritiko kai paraplanhtiko. H antidrash ayth einai, en pollois, anamenomenh. H Toyrkia einai metajy twn xwrwn poy exoyn kriqei arnhtika kai exoyn apodokimastei apo dieqneis organismoys gia thn politikh poy akoloyqei se diaforoys tomeis. H Toyrkia einai metajy twn xwrwn poy den anagnwrizoyn th dikaiodosia toy Dieqnoys Dikasthrioy ths Xaghs, den sebontai kai den throyn toys kanones toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy. Me thn antidrash ths ayth h Toyrkia pisteyoyme oti ekqetei akomh perissotero kai telika blaptei ton idio ton eayton ths. Giati, etsi apodeiknyei oti den einai diateqeimenh na enarmonistei me tis leitoyrgies ths Dieqnoys Koinothtas. Oson afora to qema ths entajhs ths Kyproy sthn E. E., exei apofasisei h E. E., sto plaisio twn Symboyliwn Koryfhs, gia th dieyrynsh ths. Oydeis mporei na anakocei ayth th diadikasia. Kapoioi paremballoyn, systhmatika malista, empodia sthn prospaqeia gia thn proodo ths entajiakhs diadikasias. Ola ayta antimetwpizontai, sto plaisio twn organwn ths E. E.. Pisteyoyme oti, me opoia krithria ki an kriqei, h Kypros exei mia pleonektikh qesh, se sxesh me oles tis alles endiaferomenes pros entajh sthn E. E. xwres. Kai gi` ayto, akribws, den einai dynato na empodistei ayth h prooptikh gia thn Kypriakh Dhmokratia. Einai qema xronoy, oxi omws ligoy xronoy. Eipame allwste oti h diadikasia ths entajhs gia oles tis xwres, einai mia diadikasia poy qa apaithsei kapoia xronia, prokeimenoy na oloklhrwqei. Pantws, einai qema xronoy h entajh ths Kyproy sthn E. E.. H politikh apofash ths E. E. einai dedomenh. Oydeis mporei na allajei ayth thn apofash.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Se ayth th "mayrh biblo", to mnhmonio poy kateqese o k. Pagkalos stoys ypoloipoys etairoys mas poy symmetexoyn sthn E. E., milaei mesa kai gia "90 naytika epeisodia". Pote eginan ayta kai giati ta apekryce h Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh oxi mono den apokryptei, alla apokalyptei thn politikh ths Toyrkias, thn anadeiknyei, prokeimenoy etsi na katadeixqei o epiqetikos kai proklhtikos xarakthras ths ejwterikhs politikhs ths geitonas xwras. Gnwrizete oti h ejwterikh kai amyntikh politikh ths xwras mas, ta teleytaia xronia, exei pollaplws anabaqmistei. Idiaiterws, oi sxeseis ths Elladas me thn Kypro exoyn ejelixqei se ena epipedo tetoio, wste na enoxleitai poikilotropws h Toyrkia. Anamenomenh einai h antidrash ths Toyrkias. Mia antidrash, h opoia perilambanei parabaseis twn kanonwn enaerias kykloforias kai parabiaseis toy eqnikoy enaerioy xwroy h toy qalassioy ellhnikoy xwroy. Gnwrizete, poly kala, pws an kai h politikh poy akoloyqoyme einai mia politikh poy yperaspizetai ta eqnika symferonta mas -alla taytoxrona, ej aytoy akribws toy logoy, enoxlei thn Toyrkia- einai mia politikh, h opoia prokalei ayth thn antidrash apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias. Se oles tis periptwseis h stash ths Toyrkias antimetwpizetai apofasistika, ston aera kai th qalassa. Se oles tis periptwseis, ajiopoioyme ta diplwmatika kai politika mesa poy exoyme sth diaqesh mas, prokeimenoy na apokalycoyme ton pragmatiko xarakthra ths politikhs poy akoloyqei h Toyrkia. Se oles tis periptwseis, an ejetasete twra kai ek twn ysterwn thn poreia twn pragmatwn, qa deite oti emeis exoyme petyxei shmantikoys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei, opws einai h efarmogh toy Dogmatos toy Eniaioy Amyntikoy Xwroy, opws einai h enisxysh ths qeshs ths xwras sthn E. E.. Antiqeta, dhladh, me thn Toyrkia poy apotygxanei, telika, na elegjei tis ejelijeis, alla kai na petyxei toys stoxoys poy exei qesei. Qa deite oti h poreia twn dyo xwrwn, ta teleytaia xronia, odhgei se mia beltiwsh -apo polles apoceis- ths qeshs ths Elladas, antiqeta me th stasimothta thn opoia kai h idia h hgesia ths Toyrkias omologei oti parathreitai sthn katastash ths Toyrkias h stis sxeseis ths me to dieqnh paragonta h stis sxeseis ths me thn Ellada.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, sas rwthsa giati den mas exete pei ta 90...

REPPAS: Exoyn anakoinwqei sxetika, alla...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pote; Apo poioys; Mporeite na moy peite merika;

REPPAS:... gnwrizete poly kala oti gi` ayta ta qemata den ekdidontai deltia Typoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia ta epeisodia ston aera giati bgainoyn;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete, epishs, oti sto plaisio ths enhmerwshs apo to Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas, to opoio diabibazei ola ta sxetika stoixeia sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, aytes oi parektropes symperiforas ths Toyrkias exoyn gnwstopoihqei. Isws den gnwrizete ta pragmata me kaqe leptomereia. Den einai proqesh ths Kybernhshs na mh gnwrizete, opws den einai proqesh ths kai na gnwrizete. H Kybernhsh xrhsimopoiei ayta ta stoixeia monon kai mono gia na katadeijei to xarakthra ths politikhs ths Toyrkias kai na petyxei toys stoxoys ths.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, den exei bgei kamia anakoinwsh, oi syntaktes oi stratiwtikoi apo to Ypoyrgeio Amynas, den exei bgei mia anakoinwsh gia naytiko epeisodio. Giati ta krybei h Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete, poly kala, k. Stamatopoyle kai mhn protrexete, oti kat` epanalhch exei ginei syzhthsh gia thn parabiash toy qalassioy xwroy, gia parenoxlhseis ploiwn, gia ploes poy exoyn kanei ta toyrkika polemika ploia sth synoriakh qalassia grammh, kai bebaiws gia symperifores poy exoyn sxesh me thn parempodish Ellhnwn aliewn na askhsoyn to epaggelma toys sta ellhnika xwrika ydata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ayta einai ta naytika epeisodia, me toys alieis;

REPPAS: Alla, bebaiws, yparxoyn ola ayta katagegrammena kai den prepei na sas jenizei - moy kanei entypwsh poy sas kanei entypwsh- to oti h Toyrkia exei mia tetoia symperifora.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Nai, alla giati ta krycate den to katalaba. Giati ta krycate den katalabainw.

REPPAS: Den yparxei kamia apokrych. Ayto to opoio einai fanero kai safes, einai oti h politikh poy h Ellada akoloyqei ta teleytaia xronia fainetai oti enoxlei perissotero para pote thn Toyrkia. Ayto den jerw an eseis to pistwnete sta qetika h ta arnhtika ths ellhnikhs pleyras. Egw qalega oti mporeite na bgalete ena symperasma pws h enoxlhsh ths Toyrkias shmainei oti h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh kanei poly kala th doyleia ths, me dedomeno oti ek twn pragmatwn, logw ths epiloghs poy exei kanei h Toyrkia na epiboyleyetai kai na diekdikei se baros ths Elladas, yparxei sygkroysh symferontwn. Otan, loipon, h Ellada yperaspizetai ta eqnika symferonta ths, h allh pleyra enoxleitai apo thn politikh poy askoyme emeis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mhn to pate alloy, k. Ypoyrge. Egw sas lew: Yparxei anakoinwsh, mporeite na moy deijete mia h na eipate eseis pote edw oti eixame naytiko epeisodio; Enw, aeroporika exete pei polla.

REPPAS: Gia ola ayta ta qemata, me ta stoixeia poy exei sth diaqesh toy to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn kanei toys analogoys xeirismoys, prokeimenoy na petyxei toys stoxoys sto plaisio ths ejwterikhs politikhs ths xwras. Den epidiwkoyme entypwsiasmoys. Epidiwkoyme na eimaste xrhsimoi kai oysiastikoi kai s` ayth thn kateyqynsh kinoymaste, ajiopoiwntas ta stoixeia ta opoia gnwrizoyme.

KIAOS: Epeidh, epishmws eseis kai h Kybernhsh me alloys armodioys ypoyrgoys, anakoinwnete oti den symbainei tipota, oti oyte parabiaseis, oyte parabaseis exoyme, pote ginane apo ton Ianoyario ews to Septembrio 772 fores parebiasan ton enaerio xwro kai 720 parabaseis twn kanonwn enaerias kykloforias, enw persi eixame 405 parabaseis. Pote ginane; Stis epoxes malista poy legate oti den symbainei apolytws tipota.

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola den yparxei apo thn pleyra mas dhlwsh me thn opoia h Kybernhsh na isxyrizetai oti den symbainei tipota, otan kati symbainei. Otan leme oti "den symbainei tipota ayth thn periodo", pragmati den symbainei tipota. Otan yparxoyn stoixeia ta opoia martyroyn ayth thn politikh ths Toyrkias, ta stoixeia ayta syllegontai kai ajiopoioyntai mesw ths diplwmatikhs h politikhs odoy. Alla, bebaiws, ta stoixeia ayta antilambaneste poly kala oti den mporei na apoteloyn periexomeno mias dhmosias anakoinwshs, san na miloyme pleon gia ena astynomiko deltio. Ayto to opoio prepei na labete ypoch sas einai ta osa eipa prin, oti panw apo thn periergeia h thn enhmerwsh, yparxei to eqniko symferon. Ayto epidiwkoyme na yperaspistoyme kai h yperaspish toy eqnikoy symferontos epiballei xeirismoys, toys opoioys ki eseis kai oloi mas qa epitrecoyme na kanoyn oi armodioi ypoyrgoi, h ypeyqynh Kybernhsh. Kai ayto ginetai sth dikh mas periptwsh me ton kalytero tropo.

KIAOS: Eixame tetoies parabiaseis kai parabaseis kata th diarkeia toy symfwnhmenoy "moratorioym" to kalokairi;

REPPAS: Ayth thn wra, den yparxei tipota pros anakoinwsh apo thn pleyra moy, doqentos oti ta stoixeia sta opoia anafereste yparxoyn plhrws sth diaqesh twn Ypoyrgeiwn Eqnikhs Amynas kai Ejwterikwn. Einai qema allhs syzhthshs. Den einai dynaton ayth thn wra na syzhtoyme se poies sygkekrimenes hmeromhnies anaptyxqhke mia sygkekrimenh stratiwtikh drasthriothta apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias. Einai kati poy kai texnikws den mporoyme na to kanoyme ayth thn wra.

KIAOS: Mporeite na dieykrinisete ayto poy eipate prohgoymenws, oti "ta teleytaia xronia h ejwterikh politikh ths xwras exei pollaplws anabaqmistei". Prwton, ti shmainei anabaqmistei; Deyteron, ti shmainei pollaplws anabaqmistei; Kai triton, ta prohgoymena xronia htan ypobaqmismenh;

REPPAS: Asfalws, exei anabaqmistei h qesh ths xwras dieqnws.

KIAOS: Eipa h ejwterikh politikh, oxi dieqnws.

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, den antilambanomai thn antidrash sas. Enoxleiste apo tis apanthseis poy dinw, enw egw den enoxloymai apo tis erwthseis poy kanete.

KIAOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, me apla logia sas lew: Ti shmainei; Epitrecte moy...

REPPAS: Sas parakalw. Sas epitrepw kai sas dinw apolyth anesh na diatypwsete ta erwthmata sas. Den moy dinete anesh, omws, na apanthsw. Ektos ean den qelete na apanthsw. An kanete, dhladh, erwthseis, gia na yparxoyn oi erwthseis katagegrammenes. Alla dipla stis erwthseis qa yparxoyn opwsdhpote kai oi apanthseis.

KIAOS: Epeidh, mporei na mhn egina katanohtos.

REPPAS: Gineste panta apolytws katanohtos.

KIAOS: Epitrecte moy. Sas erwthsa...

REPPAS: H ejwterikh politikh ths xwras...

KIAOS: Nai...

REPPAS:... asfalws kai exei anabaqmistei...

KIAOS: Ayto rwthsa.

REPPAS:... kai ayto anagnwrizete ap` oloys.

Prwton, anagnwrizetai apo ton k. Mperns, me prosfates dhlwseis toy, oti oi sxeseis Elladas-HPA einai oi kalyteres edw kai para polla xronia. Einai kapoia xwra ston kosmo poy den epiqymei kales sxeseis me tis HPA; Deyteron, h ejwterikh politikh ths Elladas exei odhghsei sto na petyxoyme oloys toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei sto plaisio ths E. E.. Na eimaste mia xwra h opoia, me thn epoikodomhtikh, kaqe fora, stash mas, exei petyxei to politiko plaisio twn sxesewn ths Eyrwphs me alles xwres -gia tis opoies exoyme idiaitero endiaferon na parakoloyqoyme to pws ejelissontai ta pragmata- na einai ena plaisio to opoio se megalo baqmo anadidei, periexei tis politikes arxes kai qeseis poy ki emeis prowqoyme. Triton, gnwrizete poly kala oti h Ellada exei petyxei na brisketai pro twn pylwn ths ONE. Aytos o pyrhnas twn xwrwn ths Eyrwphs, gnwrizete oti ta epomena xronia qa apotelei ena kentro sto opoio qa lambanontai apofaseis poy qa aforoyn to synolo twn ejelijewn, oxi mono sthn Eyrwph, alla se olo ton planhth. H Ellada epidiwkei kai pisteyoyme oti qa petyxei, me thn politikh poy akoloyqei h Kybernhsh mas, na einai isotimo melos, mazi me tis alles xwres ths Eyrwphs, s` ayto to para poly shmantiko organo. Tetarton, h Ellada, ta teleytaia molis xronia, askei mia politikh yposthrijhs ths prospaqeias ths Kyproy, gia na enisxysei kai na diasfalisei thn amyna ths kai ta dikaiwmata ths, me thn efarmogh toy Dogmatos toy Eniaioy Amyntikoy Xwroy, pragma to opoio dhmioyrgei nees isorropies kai nea dedomena sthn perioxh ths Notioanatolikhs Mesogeioy. Pempton, h Ellada me thn ejwterikh politikh poy akoloyqei h Kybernhsh mas exei petyxei, ayth thn wra, na einai h xwra-prwtagwnisths twn ejelijewn sth Notioanatolikh Eyrwph. Sta Balkania, alla kai sthn eyryterh twn Balkaniwn perioxh. Otan h Kybernhsh toy PASOK, analambanontas ta kaqhkonta ths, to 1993, eixe na antimetwpisei, metajy twn allwn problhmatwn, kai tis kakes se kapoio baqmo sxeseis ths xwras mas me oloys toys boreioys geitones ths. Periorizomai se ayta ta pente shmeia, poy einai apolytws endeiktika, gia na shmeiwsw thn proodo poy egine ta teleytaia xronia, me thn ejwterikh politikh poy askoyme, ejwterikh politikh poy enisxyei th qesh ths Elladas. Kai einai bebaio oti h politikh ayth qa odhghsei sto na katasthsei thn Ellada mia isxyrh xwra stis arxes toy 21oy aiwna, mia xwra poy qa exei mia ajiozhleyth qesh sthn Eyrwph kai se olo ton kosmo.

BITALHS: Ayto poy isws einai perissotero endiaferon kai taytoxrona anhsyxhtiko, einai oti s` ayto to Mnhmonio poy kateqese o k. Pagkalos anaferontai ta 63 epeisodia poy shmeiwqhkan sta Imia. Einai gnwsto oti logw twn Imiwn ftasame sta proqyra mias syrrajhs. Kai erwtw: Ayto, akribws, to zhthma shmainei etoimothta apo thn ellhnikh pleyra kai deyteron, giati xreiasthke toso megalo diasthma h ellhnikh pleyra na kinhtopoihsei th Dieqnh Koinothta, mesw ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai giati h kinhtopoihsh den eixe ginei nwritera; Giati tote dyskoleyotan xronika. Eixame, dhladh, endeijeis toyrkikhs proklhtikothtas sta Imia se ena megalo diasthma. Eixe ginei tipota sygkekrimeno ek meroys ths Dieqnhs Koinothtas mexri na ftasei o k. Pagkalos na kataqesei to Ypomnhma toy sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh;

REPPAS: Twra milame prwth fora gia thn proklhtikh symperifora ths Toyrkias; Den to exoyme kanei kat` epanalhch; Ma, h proklhtikh symperifora ths Toyrkias, ws xarakthrismos, o opoios einai basimos, prokyptei apo sygkekrimena epeisodia, apo gegonota, apo symbanta, ta opoia einai katagegrammena kai apodeiknyoyn to dikaio twn isxyrismwn, twn epixeirhmatwn mas. Gi` ayto akribws, qa sas parakalesw -epeidh gnwrizete oti ayta ta qemata apaitoyn leptoys kai ypeyqynoys xeirismoys- na ta syzhthsoyme sto metro ekeino poy epiballetai, prokeimenoy na yparxei enhmerwsh, apo thn allh, omws, den qa eynoyxisoyme to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn h tis alles armodies yphresies, kata thn askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toys. Prepei na sas pw oti gia to sygkekrimeno qema poy afora tis nhsides Imia, gnwrizete poly kala oti einai ena shmeio tribhs. Gnwrizete oti h Toyrkia diekdikei kai h Ellada antimetwpizei ayth th diekdikhsh epityxws, me apotelesma h Toyrkia na epanerxetai synexws s` ayth th diekdikhsh, emeis na antimetwpizoyme ayth thn epiqetikh stash ths Toyrkias kai to kaqestws sthn perioxh na paramenei ayto poy gnwrizete, opws problepoyn oi Synqhkes. Yperaspizomaste sthn prajh to kaqestws sthn perioxh. Giati bebaiws -to gnwrizete kai ayto- se polles periptwseis o dieqnhs paragontas, enw dexetai th qesh ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs, gia ajiopoihsh twn diadikasiwn toy Dikasthrioy ths Xaghs -ap' oles tis pleyres kai apo thn Toyrkia en prokeimenw- den piezei analogws thn Toyrkia, prokeimenoy na anagkastei na xrhsimopoihsei aytes tis diadikasies kai mesw aytwn na probalei th diekdikhsh ths. Giati einai adiamfisbhthta ta stoixeia ta istorika, ta stoixeia ta diplwmatika, oi synqhkes, oi symfwnies poy martyroyn to dikaio twn epixeirhmatwn kai twn qesewn mas. Yperaspizomaste mia dikaih ypoqesh, thn opoia -oson afora to sygkekrimeno qema ths Imias- epanalambanw oti thn yperaspizomaste kai sthn prajh. Epeidh ekei, kat` epanalhch, prokyptei h epiboylh ths Toyrkias.

KACAMPELHS: Hqela na rwthsw an, ws pros to skelos twn anakoinwsewn gia tetoia epeisodia kai gegonota, qa synexisete kai sto mellon na akoloyqeite thn idia taktikh;

REPPAS: Qa akoloyqoyme thn kybernhtikh politikh, h opoia einai apotelesmatikh, apodidei karpoys kai mas fernei poly konta stoys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. Den exoyme kanena logo na allajoyme ayth thn politikh, h opoia, ek twn pragmatwn, apodeiknyetai idiaitera epityxhs.

KACAMPELHS: Gia thn taktikh ennow, oxi gia thn politikh.

REPPAS: H politikh periexei kai taktikh kai strathgikh kai praktikes kai sygkekrimenes kinhseis, prokeimenoy na deijei tis qeseis ths, to periexomeno ths, thn oysia ths. Ola ayta apoteloyn mia desmh h opoia den einai dynato na temaxistei. H desmh ths politikhs mas einai ayth poy gnwrizete. Prepei na sas pw oti h ejwterikh politikh ths xwras mas ta teleytaia xronia exei tyxei epidokimasias apo para polles pleyres. Ayto deixnei oti o rolos ths Elladas anagnwrizetai ws shmantikos rolos apo to dieqnh paragonta.

BITSENTZOY: Plhroforiaka kai mono, hqela na rwthsw ean ta stoixeia poy dioxeteyei h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh sto ejwteriko gia tis toyrkikes parabiaseis kai parabaseis, sympiptoyn me ta stoixeia poy syllegontai sth Napolh apo ta natoika rantar. Erwtw, epeidh oi diplwmatikoi syntaktes lambanoyn syxna kapoia stoixeia poy dhmosiopoiei, mesw ths presbeias ths, h Toyrkikh Kybernhsh gia analoges, opws leei, parabaseis kai parabiaseis ths ellhnikhs pleyras ston toyrkiko enaerio xwro h sto FIR ths geitonos.

REPPAS: Lete, dhladh, oti kai ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh eiserxontai ston enaerio kai qalassio xwro ths Toyrkias; Aytoi oi isxyrismoi ths Toyrkias mporei na diatypwnontai. Gnwrizete poly kala, omws, oti h Ellada akoloyqei mia eirhnofilh politikh stash kai oti emeis sebomaste kai throyme tis synqhkes. Isa-isa emeis eimaste aytoi oi opoioi egkaloyme thn Toyrkia na prajei to idio kai den to kanei. Ta stoixeia poy exoyme sth diaqesh mas einai ta stoixeia ta opoia briskontai kai sth diaqesh symmaxikwn dynamewn, prokeimenoy etsi na pistopoihqei o xarakthras ths politikhs ths Toyrkias. Mia politikh h opoia yponomeyei tis prospaqeies mas gia kalh geitonia sthn perioxh.

KARGOYDH: Shmera, sthn efhmerida "QESSALONIKH" dhmosieyetai oti to perasmeno Sabbato sthn polh ths Qessalonikhs pragmatopoihqhke mia synanthsh akrodejiwn kai neonazistikwn ellhnikwn fasistikwn organwsewn. Hqela na rwthsw, an eiste enhmeroi kai pws sxoliazete to qema;

REPPAS: Oi armodies yphresies htan enhmeres gia th diorganwsh enos Synedrioy, to opoio efereto na organwnei mia eyrwpaikh enwsh newn. Oi plhrofories martyroyn oti sto Synedrio ayto symmeteixan neonazi kai akraia fasistika stoixeia apo thn Ellada kai thn Eyrwph. To Synedrio ayto organwqhke se kleisto xwro. Den synebh opoiadhpote prajh h drasthriothta h opoia na apotelei parabash twn nomwn toy ellhnikoy kratoys kai gi` ayto akribws den doqhke opoiadhpote synexeia.

KIAOS: Hqela na rwthsw, ean htan se gnwsh ths hgesias ths Astynomias kai toy Ypoyrgoy Dhmosias Tajews h energeia sth Qessalonikh twn astynomikwn, den jerw poiwn, na paroysiasoyn dyo diaforetikoys, anti gia to synadelfo toys, otan proshrxeto ston armodio Eisaggelea. To gnwrizane;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw ti gnwrize h hgesia ths Astynomias. Ayto to opoio gnwrizw einai oti kaqhkon twn astynomikwn einai se kaqe periptwsh na prostateyoyn toys kathgoroymenoys apo mia dhmosia diapompeysh, h opoia erxetai poly prin kriqoyn oi idioi apo ta organa ths Dikaiosynhs, opoy exoyn parapemfqei. Giati jerete ti symbainei sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh. Kathgoroyntai oi astynomikoi oti kalycan to synadelfo toys, anti na doyme to problhma sth riza toy. Na doyme ton pyrhna toy problhmatos. Kai to problhma poy yparxei einai ayto: Polles fores, kathgoroymenoi gia diafores prajeis sympolites mas diapompeyontai, kaqws to proswpo toys proballetai mesw twn hlektronikwn meswn enhmerwshs sto koino. Kapoioi ej aytwn, eite afhnontai eleyqeroi, eite aqwwnontai. Exoyn ypostei, omws, ayth thn timwria, epeidh akribws den etyxan analoghs frontidas. Ayto, loipon, to opoio prepei na antimetwpisoyme einai ena genikotero fainomeno, giati antilambaneste pws oi anagkes ths enhmerwshs, bebaiws, prepei na ikanopoioyntai kai na ekplhrwnontai, alla me sebasmo pantote ths proswpikothtas twn sympolitwn mas. Akomh kai an aytoi einai kathgoroymenoi gia kapoies prajeis.

KIAOS: Dhladh apo edw kai pera, apo shmera, osoi prosagontai stoys anakrites kai ston Eisaggelea me kathgories A, B, G, den qa einai oi idioi alla qa einai alloi; Apo edw kai pera, symfwna me ayta poy eipate, oti prostateyetai apo th diapompeysh o astynomikos k. tade, an apo edw kai pera ayto to metro qa efarmozetai se kaqe periptwsh.

REPPAS: Se kaqe periptwsh prepei na prostateyetai o kathgoroymenos sympoliths mas. Apo kei kai pera qa prepei kai oi anqrwpoi twn meswn enhmerwshs, twn thleoptikwn idiws staqmwn, na symbaloyn, wste ayto to fainomeno na ekleicei. Giati den tima thn Politeia mas kai den apotelei stoixeio to opoio symballei sthn orqh aponomh ths Dikaiosynhs. Antiqeta, epidiwkei th dhmioyrgia efhmerwn entypwsewn gia tis anagkes enos thleoptikoy deltioy isws, den exei sxesh, omws, me tis synqhkes katw apo tis opoies qa prepei o amerolhptos dikasths na ekdidei thn apofash toy.

KIAOS: Htan h monadikh fora poy ekane ayto h Astynomia kai den qa to epanalabei;

REPPAS: Pantote, h Astynomia qa prepei na einai synephs sta kaqhkonta ths. Metajy twn allwn h synepeia ayth, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, shmainei na fylassei kala toys kratoymenoys, aytoys enantion twn opoiwn exei diatypwqei kathgoria. Kai bebaiws, na prostateyei toys kathgoroymenoys, na toys dinei th dynatothta na askoyn ta dikaiwmata toys, giati kai aytoi exoyn dikaiwmata, para to oti polloi den to anagnwrizoyn kai toys diapompeyoyn, me poly epipolaio kai eykolo tropo, agnowntas pws polloi ej aytwn exoyn oikogeneies, exoyn paidia. Qa prepei na kriqoyn prwta, wste na toys apodoqei o telikos xarakthrismos gia tis prajeis toys. Nomizw, loipon, oti kaqhkon olwn mas einai na eimaste pio ypeyqynoi, otan xeirizomaste tetoia qemata, poy aforoyn anqrwpines zwes. Aforoyn polites.

KIAOS: Ti metra exete parei, ws Kybernhsh, prostateyontas oloys aytoys toys polites, poy lete ws ta twra, apo to na diapompeyontai mesw opoiwndhpote pragmatwn, poly perissotero otan gnwrizete o idios, blepontas thleorash, na probaloyn oi idioi oi astynomikoi aytoys poy kratoyn. Oriste parte toys fwtografia, kante toys o, tidhpote. Ti metra pairnete gia na prostateyete: Kai ta metra apeyqynontai eite se kanalia, eite se efhmerides, eite sta radiofwna, eite opoydhpote.

REPPAS: Aytes oi symperifores einai akraies kai tis apodokimazoyme, efoson tetoies symperifores epideiknyoyn astynomika organa. Oi leitoyrgoi twn meswn enhmerwshs sto plaisio ths aytoryqmishs, thn opoia idiaiterws egw pisteyw, qa prepei na epideijoyn mia aytosygkrathsh kai mia eyqynh. Bebaiws, yparxoyn ta armodia organa ta opoia tetoioy eidoys fainomena kaloyntai na ta antimetwpisoyn, symfwna me tis armodiothtes poy exoyn.

FILHS: O Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs kai h hgesia ths EL. AS. exoyn rwthsei, meta apo ta sxolia poy exoyn dhmosieytei ston Typo, na maqoyn ti akribws egine sth Qessalonikh me thn astynomikh epixeirhsh prostasias, opws eipate eseis, paraplanhshs qa to elege kapoios allos, syntexniakhs antilhchs mporei na pei kapoios allos, se sxesh me thn prosagwgh toy fonia-astynomikoy sthn anakritikh arxh;

REPPAS: Gia ayta ta qemata apanthsa prin. Den gnwrizw, ti jerei h hgesia ths astynomias. Ayto to opoio einai bebaio einai toyto: Oti h symperifora twn astynomikwn organwn, twn leitoyrgwn twn Meswn Enhmerwshs, olwn oswn emplekontai emmesws h amesws se tetoioy eidoys drasthriothtes, qa prepei na einai ypeyqynh. Ayto einai poy epishmainw. Kai h ypeyqynothta, nomizw, exei poly sygkekrimeno periexomeno kai den epitrepei parermhneies.

FILHS: Dhladh, kyrie Ypoyrge, eseis ws thleqeaths -afoy apekdyeste opoiadhpote allh armodiothta sas- den enoxlhqhkate otan eidate na yparxei enas ypermetros zhlos prostasias enos enstoloy fonia;

REPPAS: Kyrie Filh, egw epeidh epiqymw na plhroforoymai gia o, ti ginetai s' ayth th xwra kai s' ayton ton kosmo... exw stamathsei na parakoloyqw deltia eidhsewn apo ta hlektronika mesa enhmerwshs!

FILHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge...

REPPAS: Parakalw. Apanthsa prin. Eipa oti yparxoyn armodia organa, yparxei to Symboylio Radiothleorashs, yparxoyn oi idioi oi foreis poy exoyn kwdikes deontologias, toys opoioys prepei na sebontai kai na throyn. Ayta einai gnwsta se sas. Mhn epanaferete ena qema to opoio exei antimetwpistei.

FILHS: Syggnwmh, kyrie Ypoyrge, to Symboylio Radiothleorashs den exei armodiothta na ayjanei h na meiwnei ta metra asfaleias twn prosagomenwn kathgoroymenwn...

REPPAS: Exei armodiothta aytoboylws na epilambanetai tetoiwn fainomenwn kai na epiballei kyrwseis opoy parathroyntai tetoies parektropes. To gnwrizete ayto.

FILHS: H erwthsh einai safhs kai mhn apantate an den qelete...

REPPAS: Me to nomo ton opoio chfisame prosfata, dwsame ayth th dikaiodosia, thn ejoysia sto Symboylio Radiothleorashs aytoboylws na epilambanetai tetoiwn fainomenwn.

FILHS: H erwthsh htan allh kai mhn apantate an den qelete. An eseis ws poliths kai ws politiko proswpo, aisqaneste thn anagkh na diatypwsete ena sxolio, otan enas fonias-astynomikos tyxainei mias "idiaiterhs prostasias" ek meroys twn synadelfwn toy kai den askeitai s' ayth thn periptwsh arxh ths isonomias.

REPPAS: Kyrie Filh, asfalws qelw na apantw se erwthseis dhmosiografwn. Den apantw se erwthseis dikastwn. Eseis milate ws dikasths. Exete ekdwsei mia apofash, xarakthrisate to sygkekrimeno astynomiko...

FILHS: Ma, to exei paradextei o idios oti einai fonias, oti ton skotwse. Kai ayto amfisbhtoyme;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti gia to qema ayto einai se ejelijh dikastikh ereyna. Otan ekdoqei dikastikh apofash...

FILHS: H ereyna den afora an ton skotwse, ayto einai dedomeno. O fonias einai fonias.

REPPAS: Otan ekdoqei dikastikh apofash, qa mporoyme na exoyme kai emeis th safh kai oristikh qesh ths Dikaiosynhs, ara na exoyme sxhmatisei gnwmh. Mexri tote, parakalw na eimaste pio sygkrathmenoi, giati eimaste polles fores aploxeroi se arnhtikoys xarakthrismoys kai liges fores para poly feidwloi se epainoys. Nomizw, loipon, oti prepei na deixnoyme mia isorropia kai ena metro. Mporei na mhn einai to aristo, alla prepei na einai to ikanopoihtiko. Kai polles fores den epideiknyoyme ayto to metro, to opoio prepei na xarakthrizei th symperifora mas kai ton tropo me ton opoio xeirizomaste qemata. Poly perissotero, otan ta qemata ayta exoyn ena genikotero, ena dhmosio endiaferon.

FILHS: Poio xarakthrismo;

REPPAS: Sas parakalw kyrie Filh. Einai diko sas qema, dikh sas h eyqynh. Eseis analambanete na probeite se enan tetoio xarakthrismo. Egw den symmerizomai tetoies lejeis, otan brisketai se ejelijh...

FILHS: Poio xarakthrismo;

REPPAS: Katalabate poly kala.

FILHS: Peste moy.

REPPAS: Katalabate poly kala.

FILHS: Poio xarakthrismo; Th lejh fonias; Amfisbhteite to pragmatiko gegonos oti yphrje fonos kai oti kathgoreitai enas o opoios eixe paradextei oti skotwse... ;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete kapoia epoxh poy kapoioi kathgorhqhkan ws ypeyqynoi...

FILHS: Den katalabainw ti mas lete. Bgalate apofash aqwwtikh toy astynomikoy; Ayto kanete twra;

REPPAS: Ayto to symperasma bgalate eseis;

FILHS: Nai. Den einai fonias; Den paradexthke oti foneyse;

REPPAS: Ayto deixnei poso dikio exw, otan milw gia to metro to opoio prepei na throyme. Otan afenos lete oti egw ekdidw aqwwtikh apofash, otan lete apo thn allh oti einai telesidikh h qesh h h gnwmh poy exei h ellhnikh koinwnia gia to sygkekrimeno peristatiko, tote na moy epitrecete na pw oti exoyme xasei kaqe aisqhsh toy metroy. Ara, loipon, afhste ton idio na apologhqei, sto plaisio twn diadikasiwn, symfwna me tis opoies exei klhqei na apologhqei. Afhste ton idio na milhsei me ton tropo poy ekeinos krinei. Kai epeidh exoyme synaisqhsh twn eyqynwn mas, qa eimaste antikeimenikoi kai aysthroi, alla dikaioi, an prepei na kanoyme kati to opoio qa strefetai enantion ekeinoy poy apodedeigmena exei eyqynh. Alla den qa ejyphrethsoyme opoiadhpote skopimothta, den qa dhmioyrghsoyme entypwseis gia logoys poy, polles fores, xreiazetai na yphreteite kai eseis kai oi politikoi. Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, epeidh miloyme gia thn apwleia mias anqrwpinhs zwhs, epeidh miloyme gia mia dikastikh ereyna poy brisketai se ejelijh, qelw na eimaste cyxraimoi, na krathsoyme mia apostash kai na perimenoyme to porisma twn armodiwn Yphresiwn. Ayto einai to metro.

ELENOPOYLOS: Sto idio plaisio, alla gia kapoio allo qema poy ekane thn emfanish toy ta teleytaia eikositetrawra, idiaitera sta thleoptika kanalia. Ginetai ereyna, kyriws tis nyxterines wres, se polites poy epibainoyn aytokinhtwn klp. H kamera einai paroysa. Kapoios thn kalei. Kai malista, tis perissoteres fores, tis teleytaies hmeres, ta proswpa ekeinwn stoys opoioys ginetai h ereyna, den einai kalymmena. To erwthma einai, ti qa ginei; Qa synexistei poly ayth h istoria; Epeidh kykloforoyme kai nyxta dhladh, mhpws doyme kai ta proswpa mas sthn thleorash.

REPPAS: Epibebaiwnete ta osa eipa, kyrie Elenopoyle kai xairomai gi' ayto. Apo kei kai pera oi amesa endiaferomenoi, oi idioi oi polites exoyn dikaiwma apo to nomo gia th leitoyrgia twn hlektronikwn M. M. E. alla kai apo to Poiniko kai to Astiko Dikaio, na epidiwjoyn apokatastash ths timhs kai ths ypolhchs toys, an qewroyn oti exoyn qigei epeidh ekteqhkan h nomizoyn oti ekteqhkan me ena tetoio tropo apo ena Meso Enhmerwshs. Einai qema diko toys. Apo kei kai pera qa prepei na gnwrizoyn ta dikaiwmata toys oi polites -h alhqeia einai oti den yparxei arketh enhmerwsh prokeimenoy na ta askoyn na ajiopoioyn, dhladh, tis diatajeis poy yparxoyn sto qesmiko kai nomiko plaisio ths xwras kai na antimetwpizoyn ena qema poy toys afora amesa. Giati synhqisame s' ayth th xwra na afhnoyme syxna se tritoys na yperaspizontai dikes mas ypoqeseis. Kai malista ypoqeseis poy aforoyn thn proswpikothta mas, thn ekqesh mas mesw tetoiwn ekpompwn sthn koinh gnwmh kai malista me ena tropo o opoios einai apajiwtikos. Ara, loipon, qa prepei kai edw na yparxei to metro. Kai to metro qa prepei na diakrinei oles tis pleyres kata thn askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia to idio qema: Apantwntas se prohgoymenh erwthsh eipate oti ephreazontai oi dikastes. Dhladh, oi dikastes pairnoyn apofaseis blepontas thleorash; Den arkoyntai sta stoixeia poy exoyn;

REPPAS: Eipa tetoio pragma egw, kyrie Stamatopoyle;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti ephreazontai.

REPPAS: An den eixate kanei mia apo tis prwtes erwthseis, qa elega oti molis twra mphkate sthn aiqoysa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: "Ephreazetai o dikasths", eipate.

REPPAS: Allo katalabate. Allh erwthsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai kati akomh: O Proedros ths Dhmokratias, milwntas proxqes sth Qessalonikh, milhse gia ktyphma ths diafqoras sthn EL. AS. H Kybernhsh ti leei s' ayto;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei milhsei kat' epanalhch gi' ayto to qema. Proswpika, milhsa gia apotyxies h astoxies ths Astynomias se polles periptwseis. Exw dhlwsei oti h Astynomia prepei na breqei sto epipedo sto opoio epiqymoyme na brisketai. Gnwrizete poly kala oti h Ellhnikh Astynomia exei epitelesei shmantikh proodo, exei qetika apotelesmata. Exei ejixniasei egklhmata, exei antimetwpisei me epityxia tetoia fainomena. Idiaitera sth diakinhsh narkwtikwn exei epideijei poly megalh qetikh drash. Apo kei kai pera, bebaiws, polla prepei na ginoyn akomh. Kai opws eipa kai allh fora, ayta ta opoia prepei na ginoyn exoyn sxesh me thn ejygiansh sthn Astynomia, me thn kalyterh ekpaideysh twn astynomikwn kai bebaiws me th beltiwsh toy ejoplismoy poy diaqetoyn ta Swmata Asfaleias. S' ayth th kateyqynsh kinoymaste.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apo pote kineiste s' ayth thn kateyqynsh;

REPPAS: Edw kai arketo kairo kinoymaste s' ayth thn kateyqynsh kai ayto, opws antilambaneste, apotelei diaxroniko endiaferon mas. Den mas apasxolei monon kai monon epeidh kati synebh shmera h kati qa symbei ayrio. Mas apasxolei kai qa mas apasxolei. Dystyxws, sto sygxrono kosmo, sthn Eyrwph kai alloy, oi koinwnies, se megalo baqmo, talaipwroyntai apo tetoies prajeis, apo tetoia fainomena. H egklhmatikothta exei mia idiaiterh ejarsh. Kai gnwrizete poly kala -to eipa pro hmerwn kai to epanalambanw- oti kai sto prosfato Symboylio Koryfhs, dipla sto megalo qema ths apasxolhshs, polloi hgetes eqesan kai to qema ths egklhmatikothtas, ws qema meizonos shmasias, to opoio prepei na antimetwpistei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Allo egklhmatikothta, allo diafqora poy lew egw.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti otan den yparxei diafqora einai poly pio eykolo na antimetwpiseis paranomes kai egklhmatikes prajeis. To ena syndeetai me to allo. Den einai allo to ena, allo to allo. Mhn ta temaxizete giati etsi den prokeitai na odhghqoyme se logiko symperasma.

KACAMPELHS: Me bash mia apanthsh poy dwsate ston k. Kiao prohgoymenws -kai epeidh exoyme kai akroathrio- hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Ws Ypoyrgos Typoy pws enhmerwneste, apo poy enhmerwneste, gia thn epikairothta;

REPPAS: Apo esas toys dhmosiografoys. Exw kales sxeseis me esas. Miloyme thlefwnika polles fores kai maqainw ta nea apo prwto xeri...

KACAMPELHS: Apo mena apokleietai giati den sas pairnw thlefwno.

REPPAS: Ayto den shmainei oti einai ypodeesterh h poiothta ths enhmerwshs moy, epeidh den moy thlefwneite eseis. Mhn exete tetoia entypwsh.

KARASABBA: Qa hqela na rwthsw, an ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh qa einai metajy twn 400 toy NATO poy qa kanoyn peripoloys di' aeros panw apo to Kossyfopedio. Kai deyteron, epeidh se ligh wra arxizei o pleisthriasmos ston Oiko KRISTI' S, hqela na rwthsw an h ellhnikh Kybernhsh pisteyei oti o kwdikas toy Arximhdh qa einai ellhnikos se liges wres;

REPPAS: H ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei ekdhlwsei endiaferon, qa diekdikhsei ayto to ergo. Oson afora, th symmetoxh mas se tetoies drasthriothtes, gnwrizete poly kala, oti ejarxhs symmetexoyme s' aytes tis diadikasies ths synennohshs, ths diaboyleyshs poy ginetai gia thn antimetwpish ths krishs sto Kossyfopedio. Gnwrizete, epishs, oti to NATO, o dieqnhs paragwn exei "pagwsei" -as moy epitrapei h ekfrash- aytes tis diadikasies, afoy qewrei oti yparxei mia eparkhs symmorfwsh ths hgesias ths Gioygkoslabias sto plaisio kanonwn poy eixe qesei. Eipame, apo thn prwth stigmh, oti h krish sto Kossyfopedio prepei na antimetwpistei me politika mesa. Xairomaste giati h ejelijh twn pragmatwn, se megalo baqmo, dikaiwnei th stash ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, se antiqesh me polles alles pleyres, oi opoies epemenan se mia diaforetikh antimetwpish ths krishs. Apo kei kai pera, symmetexoyme sto NATO, symmetexoyme sthn E. E., eimaste energa parontes -logw kai twn anoixtwn sxesewn poy exoyme me thn hgesia ths Gioygkoslabias- gia na symbaloyme prokeimenoy na ektonwqei apolyta h krish, na pacei na yfistatai.

KARASABBA: Kyrie Ypoyrge, den exoyn "pagwsei" oi diadikasies...

MPOYATAR: Milame gia epithrhsh.

KARASABBA: Kai malista yphrje mia apofash xqes na einai se etoimothta ta aeroplana gi' ayth thn epixeirhsh. Qa symmetasxoyn ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh s' ayth thn epixeirhsh; Einai se etoimothta;

REPPAS: Eimaste se etoimothta apo thn prwth stigmh. Opws hmastan etoimoi na probaloyme tis qeseis mas gia politikh lysh toy problhmatos (epimename s' ayth thn epixeirhmatologia kai pisteyw oti symbalame se mia cyxraimh antimetwpish toylaxiston mexri twra ths krishs), etsi hmastan etoimoi apo thn prwth stigmh na laboyme meros kai na symbaloyme kai emeis -efoson ayth einai h telikh apofash toy NATO h ths Dieqnoys Koinothtas- me kaqe tropo sthn antimetwpish ths krishs. Gnwrizete poio einai to plaisio kai oi periorismoi toys opoioys qesame apo thn arxh.

MPOYATAR: Qa symmetasxoyn ellhnika aeroplana s' ayth thn epixeirhsh;

REPPAS: Den qa mellontologhsoyme. Gnwrizete oti ayto einai kati to opoio den ginetai shmera kai den qa ginei ayrio. Mhn perimenete na sas anakoinwsw ton ariqmo twn NATOikwn aeroskafwn kai apo poy qa ejormhsoyn, prokeimenoy na laboyn meros s' aytes tis drasthriothtes. Oson afora th stratiwtikh drash, exoyme milhsei gia toys periorismoys poy exoyme qesei. Qelete na sas toys qymisw; Peran twn dyo NATOikwn basewn den qa xrhsimopoihqei ellhniko edafos gia opoiasdhpote morfhs ejormhseis apo thn Ellada. Den diaqetoyme ton ellhniko enaerio xwro prokeimenoy na dielqoyn ap' ayton maxhtika aeroskafh allwn xwrwn gia na laboyn meros se drasthriothtes sto Kossyfopedio. Einai dyo basikes arxes tis opoies exoyme anaferei, einai gnwstes.

KARASABBA: Ayth einai h qesh gia toys bombardismoys.

MPOYATAR: Milame gia epithrhsh.

REPPAS: H symfwnia epithrhshs eipame oti mas briskei symfwnoys. Eimaste etoimoi gia ola ta endexomena, alla den qa symmetasxoyme me dika mas aeroplana. Mhn perimenete, omws, na sas pw twra alles leptomereies.

Sas eyxaristw.

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