Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-09-30

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 30 Septembrioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

PETOYRH: Pws sxoliazei h Kybernhsh to prostimo poy epeblhqh sto Dhmo Aqhnaiwn gia th mh apodosh toy FPA;

REPPAS: H armodia oikonomikh arxh exei diapistwsei parabash. H mh apodosh toy FPA, opws ofeiloyn oloi oi forologoymenoi -fysika h nomika proswpa- apotelei mia parabash poy prepei na antimetwpistei. Den qa prepei na syndeetai me tis politikes ejelijeis h me proswpa. Se mia politeia opoy leitoyrgoyn oi nomoi kai oi kanones den anastelletai h isxys toys, otan briskomaste se proeklogikh periodo. Einai diarkhs. Kai prepei me systhmatiko tropo kai epimeleia na efarmozoyme toys nomoys.

KIAOS: Hqela na epanelqw se orismenes sygkekrimenes erwthseis, an en tw metajy maqate gia na mas plhroforhsete. Pws legetai o ypeyqynos gia th fylajh toy Matei Sorin sto nosokomeio ths Nikaias. Pws legetai o ypeyqynos ths metagwghs toy. Pws legetai aytos o opoios htan ypeyqynos sto iatriko tim gia th xorhghsh aytwn twn katastaltikwn farmakwn. An mporeite, an ta maqate kai na mas ta peite. Onomata, tipote allo.

REPPAS: Kamia apanthsh den exw na dwsw. Qa sas pw apla oti diafwnw me th qesh poy phre kai o k. Filhs, o opoios qewrei aytes tis erwthseis toso spoydaies kai ekane shmera ena poly timhtiko gia sas sxolio sthn efhmerida sthn opoia grafei. Pisteyw oti den einai qema diko moy kai den einai qema politikhs enhmerwshs to na syzhtoyme poioi einai oi yphresiakoi paragontes, sto epipedo poy o kaqenas exei analabei sygkekrimenes armodiothtes, oi opoioi krinontai an antapokrinontai h oxi s` aytes tis armodiothtes kai ta kaqhkonta poy exoyn analabei. Einai qemata eswterikhs leitoyrgias twn yphresiwn. Efoson oi paragontes, opoiasdhpote baqmidas, exoyn sxesh me ena symban to opoio ereyna h dikastikh ejoysia, qa klhqoyn, qa poyn tis apoceis toys ki an exoyn eyqynes qa toys apodoqoyn. Den einai qema politikhs syzhthshs kai enhmerwshs, poioi exoyn analabei sygkekrimenoys roloys h kaqhkonta ayths ths morfhs, sto eswteriko mias dhmosias yphresias. Ayth einai h qesh moy.

KIAOS: Egw den sas rwthsa an symfwneite h diafwneite. Ayto einai qema apocewn. Edw, pera apo tis apoceis ths Kybernhsews tis opoies ekfrazete, apantate h kaleisqe na apanthsete se erwthseis. Sthn prokeimenh periptwsh h diastash toy problhmatos, ths ypoqesews Matei Sorin safestata -kai eseis o idios to exete paradexqei pisteyw- oti exei jefygei apo to typiko astynomiko meros. Peran toy oti sto spiti ths odoy Niobhs htan astynomikh epixeirhsh, kata thn ekfrash toy armodioy ypoyrgoy kai toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Epanerxomai, loipon, kai sas lew oti, epeidh den ypagetai mono sto Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajews, peran apo to oti exei asxolhqei o idios o Prwqypoyrgos epaneilhmmenws, eseis o idios mas eipate oti sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio eipe h Trith kai h Tetarth einai oi oceis ths politikhs, oi dyo oceis ths zwhs. Kai h katalhjh, h teleytaia, gi` ayto epanerxomai sta sygkekrimena erwthmata, ta opoia den apoteloyn proskommata sthn ereyna. Einai sygkekrimena, yparkta proswpa poy yphretoyn se yphresies sygkekrimenes kai epanerxomai, xwris kamia allh diaqesh, aplws gia na plhroforhqoyme apo ta pleon armodia xeilh ths enhmerwsews ths Kybernhsews ta sygkekrimena onomata kai tipote parapera.

REPPAS: Paramenw stis apanthseis poy exw dwsei, symplhrwnontas aplws oti den einai dikos moy rolos na kanw dhmosiografiko reportaz.

KIAOS: Epitrepetai s` ayto poy lete, ena teleytaio;

REPPAS: Parakalw.

KIAOS: Giati mas enhmerwnete ti eipe o Prwqypoyrgos sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio; Den mporoyme na maqoyme apo synadelfoys sas ti ginetai mesa; Giati aisqaneste thn anagkh, mono gia logoys propagandas h gia na mas plhroforhsete;

REPPAS: Poia einai h erwthsh poy kanete; Giati sas enhmerwnw gia osa leei o Prwqypoyrgos sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio;

KIAOS: Eipate, prohgoymenws, oti "den einai o rolos moy na kanw dhmosiografiko reportaz k. t. l".

REPPAS: Giati, aploystata, aytes tis plhrofories mporeite na tis exete apo tis armodies yphresies, stis opoies, para to o, ti eseis qewreite to qema poly sobaro, den exete apeyqynqei mexri shmera. Ayto katalabainw.

KIAOS: Qelw apo esas...

REPPAS: Den prokeitai, thn wra poy brisketai se ejelijh h ereyna apo dikastes kai iatrodikastes, na poyme o, tidhpote, prokeimenoy etsi -estw kai emmesws- na paremboyme sto ergo twn armodiwn yphresiwn. Ayth einai h qesh mas.

FILHS: Pantws eixate pei oti den lete tipota, enw diarkei h ereyna. Ma, eipate oti prepei na diereynhqoyn oi eyqynes toy armodioy Eisaggelea, gia ton opoio malista sas akoysame na qespizete ena tekmhrio amfibolias gia osa leei. Ayto den einai parembash se mia ereyna;

REPPAS: Prwta ap' ola, to qema ths ekqeshs toy Eisaggelea to qesate eseis kai malista me tropo, o opoios dhmioyrghse problhma sthn epikoinwnia mas. Giati eipate oti yparxei h ekqesh ayth, "thn opoia den protiqemai na syzhthsoyme edw", etsi kanate thn eisagwgh sthn erwthsh sas kai en synexeia, kanate sxolia, prokeimenoy na diatypwsete mia erwthsh aixmhs pros thn Kybernhsh. Kai sas eipa oti asfalws yparxei ayth h apoch, yparxoyn kai alles apoceis. Oles aytes oi apoceis qa staqmistoyn, qa synypologistoyn, qa synektimhqoyn, prokeimenoy na ekdoqei to teliko porisma. Kai ayto prepei na anamenoyme. Kai eipa, epishs, oti sto plaisio twn energeiwn, metajy twn allwn, meta apo entolh poy edoqh, o Antieisaggeleas k. Zaboleas dienergei ereyna kai gia to an o sygkekrimenos eisaggelikos leitoyrgos ekane kala th doyleia toy. Anefera ena pragmatiko peristatiko. Tipota allo. H ereyna qa apodeijei an thn ekane kala h oxi. Den parembainoyme s' ayto. Eseis mphkate sthn oysia ayths ths ekqeshs toy Eisaggelea, thn opoia sxoliasate kai qelate na th dexqoyme. Egw eipa, den qa th dexqoyme, opws den qa thn aporricoyme. Qa meinoyme oydeteroi, qa meinoyme se apostash apo oles tis martyries, prokeimenoy na afhsoyme aperispastes tis Arxes na kanoyn to ergo toys. Ayth einai h qesh mas.

SOYRMELH: Sxetika me toys Olympiakoys Agwnes, shmera anaferontai polla pragmata, idiaitera sthn efhmerida "Ejoysia", opoy legetai oti o k. Shmiths einai qymwmenos, enoxlhmenos me tis kaqysterhseis, oti yparxei problhma me ton k. Strathgh kai ton k. Mpakoyrh, an den kanw laqos. Ti akribws symbainei;

REPPAS: H synergasia ths Diypoyrgikhs Epitrophs kai twn epikefalhs ths Organwtikhs Epitrophs einai poly kalh. Eimaste mesa stoys programmatismoys xronoy kai ergwn. Allwste, liges hmeres prin, h Syntonistikh Epitroph ths Dieqnoys Olympiakhs Epitrophs episkefqhke thn Ellada kai ejefrase thn ikanopoihsh ths gia thn ejelijh, oson afora to ryqmo kai thn poiothta twn ergwn kai twn yphresiwn poy dhmioyrgoyntai enocei ths Olympiadas. Den exei prokycei kaqysterhsh, ara den dikaiologeitai opoiadhpote ekfrash dysforias. Den yparxei tetoia ekfrash dysforias.

FILHS: O Prwqypoyrgos xqes episkefqhke kai gnwrise aytoproswpws, synanthqhke me enan hlikiwmeno sto spiti toy. Qa hqela na gnwrizw, an prokeitai o Prwqypoyrgos na episkefqei kai alla spitia anhmporwn gerontwn h atomwn poy exoyn anagkh periqalcews;

REPPAS: Kyrie Filh, sto programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy, metajy twn allwn, perilambanontai episkeceis se yphresies, se foreis kai se spitia pasxontwn sympolitwn mas, prokeimenoy na dhlwqei to endiaferon, kai di aytoy toy tropoy ths Politeias, se anqrwpoys poy exoyn pragmatikh anagkh, se anqrwpoys stoys opoioys prepei na prosferoyme th bohqeia mas. Gnwrizete poly kala oti to pneyma ths politikhs mas, metajy twn allwn, einai pneyma allhleggyhs. Epiqymoyme th diasfalish ths koinwnikhs synoxhs, th dieyrynsh toy istoy koinwnikhs asfaleias, poy meqodika dhmioyrgoyme s' ayth thn koinwnia. Sto plaisio ayto, pera apo laikes kai dhmagwgikes "korwnes" kai synqhmata, yparxei sygkekrimenh drash, yparxei sygkekrimenh prajh, yparxei apotelesma, to opoio fainetai sta programmata, poy aforoyn afenos th leitoyrgia ekatontadwn kentrwn anoikths periqalchs hlikiwmenwn, se olh thn Ellada kai, afeteroy, thn efarmogh toy programmatos ths paroxhs bohqeias sto spiti se pasxontes sympolites mas. Ayto apodeiknyei oti h Politeia, sto plaisio twn oikonomikwn dynatothtwn toy proypologismoy, dinei ychlh proteraiothta sth bohqeia poy prepei na prosferoyme s' aytoys toys sympolites mas poy exoyn pragmatika anagkh. An o Prwqypoyrgos krinei oti prepei na analabei analoges prwtoboylies, qa tis analabei. Den qa distasei. Kai den qa distasei, giati qewrei oti etsi epitelei to xreos toy, prokeimenoy na einai, ws politikos kai ws Prwqypoyrgos, konta sta problhmata, konta stoys anqrwpoys, oi opoioi ta biwnoyn, wste na symballei sthn antimetwpish kai sth lysh toys.

FILHS: Oi episkeceis toy Prwqypoyrgoy poy eipate oti qa synexistoyn, qa ginoyn me th synodeia thleoptikwn synergeiwn kai topikwn ypochfiwn dhmotikwn paragontwn;

REPPAS: Oloi oi paragontes, oi opoioi exoyn symballei sth dhmioyrgia kai efarmogh tetoiwn metrwn koinwnikhs politikhs, exoyn bebaiws to dikaiwma na einai parontes, na apolambanoyn kai aytoi th xara kai thn timh poy aporreei apo th synaisqhsh ths eyqynhs toys poy apedeijan oti toys diakatexei. Den prepei ayto na dhmioyrgei mia bash gia toso kakopisth proseggish, giati arketa ta Mesa Enhmerwshs ta exoyn kolakecei para polloi politikoi paragontes, oi opoioi den lene tipota kako gi ayta, enw eixan logoys kai aformes na to kanoyn. Twra, omws, blepw na yparxei mia epikritikh diaqesh gia ton tropo me ton opoio ta MME proballoyn orismena pragmatika gegonota.

FILHS: Gia ta MME h gia ton Prwqypoyrgo; Ti katalabate akribws;

REPPAS: Eida oti yparxei kritikh, alla bebaiws ta MME epilegoyn ta qemata ta opoia qa anadeijoyn. Den epembainei kaneis sth qematologia toys. Kai gnwrizete poly kala oti shmantika qemata exoyn paralhfqei -kat' epanalhch exei ginei ayto- apo ta MME, idiws ta hlektronika, enw filojenoyntai sta programmata toys mikroterhs shmasias qemata.

MOYRTZHS: Na epanelqw. Esas proswpika sas ikanopoiei aisqhtika na emfanizetai o X Ypoyrgos, ws "Maria Tereza", kai na agkaliazei, as poyme, ta KAPH, th syzygo toy geronta kai na synagelazetai me alloys ypochfioys dhmotikoys symboyloys kai apo panw na einai oi kameres kai ta thleoptika synergeia; Sas ikanopoiei aisqhtika ayto; Den exei prohgoymeno, nomizw.

REPPAS: Me ikanopoiei to gegonos oti leitoyrgoyn -kai leitoyrgoyn eyryqma- 300 KAPH se olh thn Ellada, opws, epishs, me ikanopoiei to oti brisketai, pleon, to programma ths "bohqeias sto spiti" se pilotikh efarmogh, se polloys Dhmoys, oi opoioi exoyn hdh jeperasei toys 100 se olh thn Ellada. Me ikanopoiei to oti ena shmantiko kondyli apo ton kratiko proypologismo ajiopoieitai me ayto ton tropo, wste na prosferqei bohqeia se anhmporoys sympolites mas afenos kai afeteroy na prosferqei ayth h neas morfhs ergasia se neoys anqrwpoys poy exoyn mia ejeidikeysh, oi opoioi noshleyoyn kai periqalpoyn aytoys toys sympolites mas. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta. Ola ta alla, bebaiws, mporei na ta krinei o kaqenas apo mas. Ayto to opoio den prepei na kanei, omws, einai na agnohsei, mias kai polles fores diatypwnontai analoges kathgories, oti ston tomea ayto exei shmeiwqei shmantikh proodos, h opoia allwste, dia toy logoy moy to alhqes, fainetai apo thn adiaceysth eikona, ths opoias kai eseis xqes ginate martyres.

MIXAHL: Xqes, to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Oikonomias kai o k. Papantwnioy edwsan sth dhmosiothta lista megalwn, epwnymwn kallitexnwn, kaqhghtwn, giatrwn, oi opoioi legetai oti apo ereynes poy eginan diapistwqhke forodiafygh. Qelw na sas rwthsw pws prostateyontai aytoi oi polites, an katafygoyn sta Dikasthria kai dikaiwqoyn;

REPPAS: Prostateyontai apo th dynatothta na ajiopoihsoyn opoia endika mesa diaqetoyn, prokeimenoy na isxyristoyn th dikh toys ekdoxh kai na toys apodoqei dikaiosynh. H opoia dikaiosynh, bebaiws, antilambaneste pws den ypakoyei se politikes skopimothtes. Me ayth thn ennoia o k. Papantwnioy eixe ta porismata twn ereynwn, twn elegxwn poy ekane to SDOE. Otan oi armodies oikonomikes yphresies, oi gnwstes sas DOY, ajiopoihsoyn ayta ta porismata, profanws, qa enhmerwsoyn kai toys alloys emplekomenoys. Apo kei kai pera, pisteyw oti einai mia symbolh sthn prospaqeia gia th dhmioyrgia forologikhs syneidhshs stoys Ellhnes polites forologoymenoys, ayth h dhmosia anakoinwsh, klasikwn periptwsewn forodiafyghs. H ereyna poy kanei to SDOE einai shmantikh ereyna, exei anagnwristei ayto. To Swma exei epityxies se polloys tomeis, anagnwrizetai apo oloys. Qa prepei na deijoyme idiaiterh eyaisqhsia sthn peristolh ths forodiafyghs kai oxi sto gegonos ths anakoinwshs onomatwn, kanontas mia ypoqesh poy fainetai oti den exei bash.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ypoyrge, omws, opws gnwrizete apo to yparxon nomiko kaqestws sth xwra mas, kapoios poy qewreitai apo enan elegxo armodias yphresias ws forodiafeygwn, exei th dynatothta -opws kai eseis paradexqhkate- na proaspisei ton eayto toy katafeygontas sta dikasthria. O k. Papantwnioy, omws, den perimene na telesidikhsei h diadikasia, an eixan enstaseis h parathrhseis, para mono anakoinwse onomata kai h entypwsh poy exei sxhmatistei einai oti oloi exoyme forodiafygei. Pws mporoyn, loipon, aytoi oi anqrwpoi na prostateytoyn, meta tis entypwseis poy dhmioyrghqhkan;

REPPAS: Mporoyn na prostateytoyn, ajiopoiwntas ta endika mesa poy exoyn sth diaqesh toys.

MIXAHL: Giati den perimenate na ta askhsoyn ta endika mesa;

REPPAS: Giati den afhnete toys idioys toys endiaferomenoys na analaboyn oles tis sxetikes prwtoboylies, prokeimenoy na yperaspisoyn ton eayto toys; Exoyn dikaiwma na to kanoyn. Oydeis mporei na toys empodisei. Mporoyn na to kanoyn. Kai pisteyw oti an krinoyn oti adikoyntai, qa epidiwjoyn th dikaiwsh toys, xrhsimopoiwntas kai th dikastikh odo.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epitrecte moy kati: Ekproswpos toys dikhgoros, xqes kai enas ej oswn anakoinwqhkan oti forodiafeygoyn, bghkan kai eipan jekaqara, oti idea den eixan, oyte kan eixan enhmerwqei gia na mporoyn na prosfygoyn kai na askhsoyn ta endika mesa poy problepontai.

REPPAS: Sas apanthsa molis prin. Den eipa oti oi armodies oikonomikes yphresies, gnwstes ws D. O. Y., qa toys enhmerwnoyn; Den exoyme ftasei akomh s' ayto to stadio. Apo kei kai pera ta porismata ths ereynas, poy ekane to Swma Diwjhs Oikonomikoy Egklhmatos, einai dedomena. Ayta anakoinwse o armodios Ypoyrgos poy einai kai Proistamenos toy Swmatos. Den exei sxesh to ena me to allo. Apo kei kai pera, an oi anaferomenoi analaboyn nomimes prwtoboylies, epeidh qewroyn oti etrwqh h timh toys, bebaiws, einai dikaiwma toys na tis analaboyn kai qa parakoloyqhsoyme me endiaferon thn ejelijh ayths ths ypoqeshs.

MIXAHL: Eipate oti h energeia toy k. Papantwnioy einai symbolh sthn prospaqeia na dhmioyrghqei forologikh syneidhsh. Forologikh syneidhsh twn politwn, apenanti se poion, k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Prwta ap' ola exoyn ypoxrewsh apenanti ston eayton toys. Giati oi polites mias xwras qa prepei na diakrinontai apo koinwnikh eyqynh. Ystera, apenanti stoys sympolites toys, poy den forodiafeygoyn. Kai bebaiws, apenanti sth xwra.

MIXAHL: To kratos einai entajei apenanti toys;

REPPAS: To kratos egkaleitai otan probainei se prajeis, oi opoies adikoyn polites. Peran ths politikhs eyqynhs, -kai gnwrizete oti se takta diasthmata, afoy krinontai oi politikoi, apodidontai oi eyqynes- to kratos egkaleitai, otan parathreitai kapoia paraleich h parabash kai analoga apofasizoyn ta armodia organa.

MIXAHL: Qa yparjoyn kai alla onomata;

REPPAS: Yparxei swreia periptwsewn politwn, oi opoioi prosfeygoyn sta dikasthria kai enantion toy kratoys h kratikwn yphresiwn. Den to gnwrizete ayto;

KIAOS: Ean dikaiwqoyn kapoioi ap' aytoys sta dikasthria poy lete na prosfygoyn, qa bgei o k. Papantwnioy kai me ton idio tropo qa dwsei ta onomata toys ws dikaiwqentwn;

REPPAS: Giati na syzhthsoyme ayth thn ypoqesh, twra;

KIAOS: Lew...

REPPAS: Giati na biastoyme na syzhthsoyme mia ejelijh, h opoia einai para poly qewrhtikh, thn wra poy syzhtoyme ena para poly sygkekrimeno dedomeno, oxi ena endexomeno. To dedomeno einai to apotelesma ths ereynas toy S. D. O. E. Den qa syzhthsoyme sthn idia bash ena pragmatiko gegonos, ena dedomeno me kati poy einai endexomeno, einai qewrhtiko. Einai mia ejelijh poy mporei na yparjei, alla mporei kai na mhn yparjei. H ereyna toy S. D. O. E. einai dedomenh, omws, den allazei. Katelhje s' ayto to porisma.

KIAOS: Katalaba. An synexizetai h ereyna diaforwn kathgoriwn epaggelmatiwn, kallitexnwn, dhmosiografwn kai an qa doqoyn alla onomata, se poio baqmo exei proxwrhsei ayth h ereyna ; An entopizete kapoies kraygalees istories megaloepixeirhmatiwn, kata poso einai entajei, mporeite na mas peite;

REPPAS: To Swma Diwjhs Oikonomikoy Egklhmatos einai mia yphresia h opoia dhmioyrghqhke apo Kybernhsh toy PASOK. Exei shmantika apotelesmata. Oi ereynes poy kanei einai diarkeis, den stamatoyn. Kai ta apotelesmata twn ereynwn aytwn gnwstopoioyntai dhmosiws. Apo kei kai pera, gnwrizete oti, sto plaisio toy nomoy poy chfisame, problepetai oti qa anakoinwnontai ta onomata ekeinwn poy exoyn probei se parabaseis ths forologikhs kai telwneiakhs nomoqesias. Ara, qa ginoyn tetoies anakoinwseis, opws problepei o nomos. Ayto einai mia allh diadikasia. Opws epishs -kai gia polla tetoia qemata blepw na yparxoyn dhmosieymata kai na ginontai anakoinwseis- qa synexistoyn oi ereynes poy kanei to S. D. O. E.

FILHS: Prokeitai na yparjoyn ejaggelies ek meroys kybernhtikwn paragontwn gia qemata poy aforoyn th Qessalonikh kai ton Peiraia, aytes tis meres h na ekdhlwqei endiaferon Ypoyrgwn gia aytes tis sygkekrimenes perioxes, kata thn proeklogikh periodo;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh endiaferetai gia olh th xwra. Kai bebaiws oi politikoi paragontes, analogws twn armodiothtwn toys, oxi mono kata thn proeklogikh periodo, alla kaq' olh th diarkeia toy xronoy, epideiknyoyn endiaferon gia qemata poy apasxoloyn perioxes ths xwras. Logiko einai to endiaferon ayto, na mhn perimenete na meiwqei twra, epeidh briskomaste se proeklogikh periodo. Nomizw, oti qewreite kai seis logiko, pws to endiaferon ayto prepei na parameinei ameiwto. Na parameinei, dhladh, sto idio ychlo epipedo, opws olh thn prohgoymenh periodo. Kai to endiaferon ayto qa parameinei se ychlo epipedo kai qa epideixqei me diaforoys tropoys.

Eyxaristw poly.

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