Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-09-29

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 29 Septembrioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Prin jekinhsoyme th syzhthsh mas, qa hqela na sxoliasw xqesines anakoinwseis ths Neas Dhmokratias kai toy SYNASPISMOY. Zhtoyn -oyte ligo, oyte poly- thn ekdosh porismatos gia thn ypoqesh Sorin Matei, protoy kan oloklhrwqei h ereyna apo tis armodies Arxes. Apodeiknyetai etsi, gia allh mia fora, oti ta problhmata poy yparxoyn protimoyme, anti na symbaloyme sthn epilysh toys, na ta xrhsimopoioyme gia mikrokommatikoys skopoys. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

LAKOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, s` ayth thn ypoqesh ap` o, ti gnwrizoyme o Prwqypoyrgos eixe apo thn prwth stigmh mia taktikh qa thn elega enhmerwsh. Qelw na sas rwthsw an ws ayth thn wra poy milame ejakoloyqei na yparxei enhmerwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai poios ton enhmerwnei.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos eixe enhmerwsh apo ena shmeio kai meta apo ton armodio politiko paragonta, ton Geniko Grammatea toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs. Kanw kai pali ayth thn aposafhnish -epeidh eipate sthn erwthsh sas "apo thn prwth stigmh". Gia na mhn yparxei, loipon, paranohsh epanalambanw ayto poy exw pei kai alles fores, apo thn prwth kiolas syzhthsh poy kaname edw. O Prwqypoyrgos exei epikoinwnia kai enhmerwnetai apo ton Ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs gia toys ryqmoys poy akoloyqoyn oi ereynes. Oi ereynes aytes briskontai s` ena orismeno shmeio kai den exoyn oloklhrwqei. Den exei prokycei kati kainoyrgio, kati pros anakoinwsh apo thn pleyra twn epishmwn Arxwn. Anamenoyme thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn. O Prwqypoyrgos den exei kapoia allh enhmerwsh. Ola ta stoixeia poy qa elqoyn sthn epifaneia me thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn asfalws qa apotelesoyn antikeimeno meleths, metajy twn allwn, kai apo toys kybernhtikoys paragontes.

LAKOPOYLOS: Einai profanes oti sthn koinh gnwmh yparxei mia diaxyth anhsyxia poy afora thn asfaleia ths. Exw thn entypwsh oti o Prwqypoyrgos den to agnoei ayto. Qelw na sas rwthsw, loipon, giati o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs den analambanei thn prwtoboylia na enhmerwsei thn koinh gnwmh gia to an h Kybernhsh skopeyei na parei kapoia metra sxetika h en pash periptwsei na kaqhsyxasei thn koinh gnwmh.

REPPAS: Exoyme milhsei gia to problhma ayto. Anagnwrizoyme oti thn teleytaia periodo parathreitai mia ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas kai sthn patrida mas. Exoyme analysei to fainomeno. Exoyn dhmioyrghqei nees synqhkes. H xwra mas einai pantaxoqen ekteqeimenh. Gnwrizete poly kala oti qa prepei ayta ta qemata na ta antimetwpizoyme me enan isorropo tropo, doqentos oti se polles periptwseis h koinh gnwmh strefetai monomerws kai xrewnei me eyqynes mono toys oikonomikoys metanastes, pragma to opoio den einai epitrepto kai me to opoio fysika emeis den symfwnoyme. O Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs exei epitelesei ergo s` ayto ton tomea, me th bohqeia twn stelexwn toy Ypoyrgeioy kai ths Astynomias. Exei anaferqei sygkekrimena h meiwsh ths egklhmatikothtas se pososto 15%, se sxesh me to 1997. Yparxei se ejelijh ena programma gia ton ejoplismo twn dynamewn ths EL. AS.. Ola ayta syzhtoyntai ki exoyn lhfqei kai apofaseis. Exei ginei enhmerwsh gia to pws h EL. AS. eksygxronizei tis dynameis ths kai ta mesa poy diaqetei, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisei ayto to fainomeno. Den yparxei kapoios logos, ayth thn wra, na poyme kati parapanw, giati den exei prokycei kati neotero. Oi prwtoboylies poy exei analabei h Astynomia gia na ginei pio apotelesmatikh pote isws den qa einai arketes. Pantote qa xreiazetai na beltiwsoyme akomh perissotero to epipedo ths EL. AS., opws kai synolika ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs, gia na ginei apotelesmatikoterh sthn antimetwpish twn qematwn poy apasxoloyn ton polith. Den yparxei logos na doqei synenteyjh Typoy -twra poy ejelissontai oi ereynes- gia na enhmerwsei o k. Rwmaios ton ellhniko lao gi` ayto to qema. Yparxei enhmerwsh gia tis prospaqeies poy kanei h Astynomia. Kalo einai -se teleytaia analysh- oi prospaqeies aytes na krinontai apo to apotelesma toys. Exoyme epityxies, yparxoyn kai anepityxeis prospaqeies. Ola ayta qa prepei na synypologizontai gia na ejaxqei to teliko symperasma.

LAKOPOYLOS: Gi` ayth thn ypoqesh exete milhsei eseis, exei milhsei o k. Giannopoylos, exei milhsei o k. Papadopoylos, exei milhsei kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos. Kai o monos poy den exei milhsei einai o kaq` ylhn armodios Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs. Yparxei kapoios eidikos logos poy den to exei kanei; Prokeitai na milhsei; Ti symbainei;

REPPAS: O k. Rwmaios milhse. Orise ena plaisio politikhs antimetwpishs aytoy toy qematos. Exoyme syzhthsei -kai prosfata se kybernhtika organa- qemata poy sxetizontai me th beltiwsh twn yphresiwn poy prosferei h EL. AS.. Exoyme labei apofaseis. O k. Rwmaios, s` ayth th fash pleon, afoy oloklhrwqhke h astynomikh epixeirhsh, den exei opoiadhpote emplokh. Ayth thn wra, poy briskontai se ejelijh oi ereynes, den pisteyw pws einai o, ti to kalytero na ginei mia syzhthsh epi twn qematwn aytwn, poly perissotero otan kapoioi qa qewrhsoyn pws ginetai gia logoys kapoias skopimothtas. Qa diatypwsoyn malista kai thn kathgoria oti ginetai prospaqeia ephreasmoy h kai apoprosanatolismoy ths koinhs gnwmhs. Ayta ta qemata ta antimetwpizei h Kybernhsh me th deoysa eyqynh, cyxraimia kai sobarothta kai s` ayto to plaisio qa kinhqoyme kai sto mellon.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Xqes, sas eteqhsan diafora erwthmata. Shmera, mhpws mporeite na mas apanthsete;

REPPAS: Qa epanalabw tis xqesines apanthseis moy. Xqesines oi dikes sas erwthseis, xqesines kai oi dikes moy apanthseis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Perasan 24 wres, den mporesate na enhmerwqeite gia na mas apanthsete;

REPPAS: Den eixa kanena logo na enhmerwqw. Ola ayta einai stoixeia poy gnwrizoyn oi armodies yphresies. Oi epikefalhs aytwn twn yphresiwn, efoson ki an klhqoyn qa kataqesoyn ta stoixeia poy gnwrizoyn kai oloi qa gnwrizoyme, otan qa exei oloklhrwqei h ereyna, pws eginan ta pragmata. Pisteyw oti den einai qema syzhthshs se ayto to epipedo h enhmerwshs dikhs moy gia to poios eixe poion sygkekrimeno rolo. Einai kati poy jeperna to plaisio twn kaqhkontwn moy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mas eipate oti o k. Rwmaios den eixe opoiadhpote emplokh, dhladh, poio ypoyrgeio einai ypeyqyno gia kati tetoio, afoy den htan to Ypoyrgeio toy k. Rwmaioy; Poio ypoyrgeio exei emplokh s` ayth thn epixeirhsh;

REPPAS: Giati parapoieite ayta poy lew; Eipa oti den exei kamia emplokh apo th stigmh poy oloklhrwqhke h astynomikh epixeirhsh. Ayto eipa. Einai dynaton na mhn eixe to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs kamia emplokh, oso diarkoyse h astynomikh drasthriothta;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate apo th stigmh poy oloklhrwqhke h astynomikh ereyna...

REPPAS: Malista. Teleiwse h epixeirhsh kai arxizei h ereyna. Apo th stigmh ayth to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs den exei kapoia symmetoxh. Gi` ayto sthn arxh milhsa, otan me rwthse o k. Lakopoylos, gia tis armodiothtes toy Ypoyrgoy Dikaiosynhs, o opoios enhmerwnetai gia to pws ejelissontai oi ereynes apo tis armodies Arxes ki ekeinos einai poy enhmerwnei thn Kybernhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mas eipate oti meiwqhke h egklhmatikothta kai oti twra ginetai prospaqeia. Xqes, mesa se mia hmera, eixame pente lhsteies. To jerete; Ayth einai h meiwsh ths egklhmatikothtas;

REPPAS: Anefera ena statistiko stoixeio. Ayto den mas ikanopoiei idiaiterws, doqentos oti to fainomeno ayto yparxei. Den to ypobaqmizw kai kaqe allo para to agnow. Ki egw milhsa, kat` epanalhch, gia thn ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas sthn patrida mas, alla epanalambanw oti xreiazetai megalh prosoxh giati dhmioyrgoyntai entypwseis poy den antapokrinontai sthn alhqeia. Prepei na exoyme mia isorroph drash ston tomea ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poies einai oi entypwseis poy den antapokrinontai sthn alhqeia;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti fqasame s` ena shmeio, kaqe oikonomikos metanasths na qewreitai kai egklhmatias apo thn koinh gnwmh -ki edw polloi "exoyn balei to xeraki toys". Emeis prepei na eimaste poly prosektikoi. Mia koinwnia poy einai dikaiokratoymenh kai eynomoymenh prepei na antimetwpizei oloys toys polites me tropo isotimo. H Dikaiosynh einai aprokatalhpth. Oi armodies Arxes den ekfrazoyn synaisqhmata idiaiterhs protimhshs pros kapoion enanti alloy. Qa prepei ola ayta na ta antimetwpizoyme cyxraima gia na eimaste apotelesmatikoi. Den prepei na epidoqoyme s` ena kynhgi magisswn, giati exoyme epidoqei kai s` ayto.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Xqes, se mia synenteyjh toy o k. Papadopoylos, gia to endexomeno na ypaxqei sto Ypoyrgeio toy to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs, dhlwse oti tassetai yper ths apochs pws stis sygxrones koinwnies prepei na ftiaxtoyn dejies Astynomies. Qa hqela na moy ejhghsete ti shmainei gia thn Kybernhsh dejia Astynomia kai pws protiqetai na th ftiajei me bash ayta ta protypa.

REPPAS: Exoyme milhsei kat` epanalhch, o Prwqypoyrgos kai oloi mas, gia thn anagkh h Astynomia mas na einai apotelesmatikh. Ola ta alla qa ta rwthsete s` aytoys oi opoioi, me diaforoys xarakthrismoys, dinoyn to diko toys xrwma se foreis, ejoysies h dhmosies leitoyrgies. Mporoysate na to kanete apo xqes, an exei toso endiaferon gia sas. Na apeyqynqeite ston k. Papadopoylo gia na exete th dikh toy apanthsh. Qa einai h pio egkyrh. Mia Astynomia prepei na einai apotelesmatikh. Na empneei asfaleia kai sigoyria stoys polites poy apaitoyn na einai apotelesmatikh h Astynomia. S` ayth thn kateyqynsh prospaqoyme ki emeis, wste na exoyme apotelesmata.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Anaferqhkate sthn anagkaiothta na mhn proxwrame s` ena kynhgi magisswn kai se mia syllhbdhn enoxopoihsh twn oikonomikwn metanastwn. Qa hqela na parathrhsw oti sthn omilia toy sto Agrinio o Prwqypoyrgos ypertonise, sthn prospaqeia toy na kaythriasei to egklhma, to gegonos oti polloi oikonomikoi metanastes briskontai sth xwra. Qewreite oti htan mia atyxhs sygxysh sto logo toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

REPPAS: Einai mia poly epityxhs anafora, h opoia einai se apolyth synarthsh me ayto to opoio eipa ki egw sthn arxh oti h xwra mas einai pantaxoqen ekteqeimenh. Anefera thn prohgoymenh ebdomada ena paradeigma. Gnwrizete oti arketes dekades laqrometanastes hrqan sthn Krhth me ena poly mikro ploio. Anqrwpoi poy erxontai sthn Ellada anazhtwntas kalyteres synqhkes zwhs. Kapoioi apo aytoys an den ejasfalisoyn ergasia, an den exoyn ena eisodhma gia na epibiwsoyn, antilambaneste pws einai epirrepeis na epidoqoyn se egklhmatikes prajeis. Ayto einai h alhqeia ths zwhs. Alla ayto apexei poly apo to na topoqethsoyme s` ayth thn kathgoria syllhbdhn oloys toys oikonomikoys metanastes. To problhma ths egklhmatikothtas einai ena megalo problhma kai asfalws exei sxesh, amesh h emmesh, me to fainomeno ths oikonomikhs metanasteyshs poy exei ayjhqei sth xwra mas.

FILHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, xqes o k. Papadopoylos -kai den anaferomai s' ayto poy eipate- oti leei gia dejia Astynomia h Kybernhsh kai ennoei apotelesmatikh Astynomia...

REPPAS: Eipa tetoio pragma egw shmera;

FILHS: Eipate oti qelete apotelesmatikh Astynomia. O k. Papadopoylos eipe oti qelei dejia Astynomia. O kaqenas katalabainei kai kanei toys syneirmoys toy, an dejia Astynomia einai kai apotelesmatikh Astynomia. Alla, ayto einai mia allh syzhthsh.

REPPAS: H opoia ginetai edw omws.

FILHS: H opoia ginetai sthn koinwnia. Kai dystyxws me prwtoboylia kybernhtikwn paragontwn.

REPPAS: Synexiste thn erwthsh sas, k. Filh.

FILHS: H erwthsh einai: O k. Papadopoylos milhse gia kapoio nomo sxetika me th metanasteysh, otan miloyse gia to qema ths egklhmatikothtas. Etoimazete neo nomo gia th metanasteysh;

REPPAS: Exoyme milhsei kat' epanalhch gi' ayto to qema. To Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, edw kai arketoys mhnes, exei apofasisei, anamesa sta alla, na proxwrhsoyme sthn katartish enos nomosxedioy gia th metanasteysh. Eixame milhsei gia toys apodhmoys Ellhnes, eixame apofasisei th beltiwsh toy yfistamenoy plaisioy gia thn politikh mas oson afora toys Ellhnes poy epistrefoyn sthn patrida. Tote, diatypwqhke h eishghsh pws prepei na proxwrhsoyme kai sth diatypwsh enos tetoioy nomoy.

FILHS: Pws qa syndesete tote to nomo gia th metanasteysh poy qelete na ftiajete me thn egklhmatikothta, opws prokyptei apo th synenteyjh toy k. Papadopoyloy;

REPPAS: Sto plaisio ayths ths syzhthshs anthllaghsan polles apoceis kai metajy twn allwn epishmanqhke oti h ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas ofeiletai kai sthn ogkwdh eleysh sthn Ellada metanastwn oi opoioi koybaloyn ta problhmata toys, den einai eykolo na ejasfalisoyn ajioprepeis synqhkes zwhs kai prokeimenoy na to epityxoyn polles fores epididontai se tetoies energeies. Einai gnwsto ayto.

FILHS: Apo th statistikh toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs, poy einai to pio epishmo stoixeio, den prokyptei oti h ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas sthn Ellada afora jenoys. Mono 4% apo ta adikhmata ta opoia katagrafontai kat' etos exoyn drastes jenoys. Poy sthrizei h Kybernhsh ayth thn ektimhsh ths oti h ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas thn opoia diapistwnei, ofeiletai kata kyrio baqmo stoys jenoys;

REPPAS: Eiste kai eseis poliths ayths ths xwras, gnwrizete poies antilhceis exoyn epikrathsei. Sas prolaba kai eipa oti den qa prepei na epidoqoyme se ena tetoio "kynhgi magisswn". Epanalambanete, ayto akribws to opoio eipa sthn arxh. Asfalws den prepei na einai monomerhs h anazhthsh twn egklhmatiwn s' ayth thn kathgoria twn katoikwn ayths ths xwras, twn anqrwpwn dhladh poy anagkasthkan se metanasteysh anazhtwntas kalyterh tyxh. Apo kei kai pera omws, yparxoyn kai stoixeia ta opoia martyroyn oti den einai amelhtea h "symbolh" kai aytoy toy paragonta sthn ejarsh ths egklhmatikothtas.

FILHS: To epeisodio me ton Matei, me ton kakopoio, poy sterhse th zwh kai th dikh toy telikws, alla xaropaleyei kai mia kopela kai epishs yparxoyn kai traymaties astynomikoi, gia th statistikh ths Yphresias ths Astynomias, poy qa to katatajete; Kai to qanato toy, poy;

REPPAS: Ayto pragmatika einai ena poly... kairio erwthma! Qa prepei na epifylaxqw na apanthsw, afoy skeftw poly kala tis parametroys toy erwthmatos. Apodeijate, pragmati, oti exoyme kai Ellhnes kakopoioys. Kakopoioi yphrxan kai sthn Ellada prin ekdhlwqei ayto to metanasteytiko kyma, qa yparxoyn kai ta epomena xronia. Lypoymai, alla ayth einai isws h ejelijh twn pragmatwn. Kata ta alla, exei mikroterh shmasia to se poia kathgoria apo apoch statistikoy endiaferontos qa entaxqei o kakopoios gia ton opoion syzhtoyme. Megalyterh shmasia exei oti o idios den zei kai bebaiws, paresyre se mia tragwdia kai alloys oi opoioi den exoyn kamia eyqynh na plhrwnoyn ayto to bary timhma, shmera.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qelw na rwthsw, eji hmeres meta, an h Kybernhsh aisqanetai thn anagkh na mas plhroforhsei oti h plhroforhsh gyrw apo ayto to qema, apo th syllhch mexri kai to qanato toy Matei pros ta M. M. E., toys foreis kai ta kommata, einai ayth poy prepei. An, dhladh, exei enhmerwsei plhrws h "xrwsta" kapoia plhroforhsh;

REPPAS: Apo thn prwth mera poy syzhthsame ayto to qema, anamesa st' alla eipa oti kai egw kai eseis polles fores ginomaste qymata ths plhroforhshs poy mas parexetai. Gnwrizete oti kai emeis pairnoyme kapoia plhroforhsh apo alloys oi opoioi exoyn amesh sxesh, oi opoioi einai aytoptes h aythkooi martyres kai gnwrizoyn kapoia pragmata, kapoia plhroforia kai aythn metadidoyme. Den einai omws spania ta fainomena -den einai syxna, alla den einai kai spania- poy ginomaste kai emeis qymata mias kakhs plhroforhshs. Ayta ta opoia eipame ston ellhniko lao, epishma kai egkyra, einai ayta ta opoia gnwrizoyme kai pisteyoyme oti antapokrinontai sthn alhqeia. Apo thn wra poy arxise h diadikasia diereynhshs twn synqhkwn ayths ths epixeirhshs, pisteyoyme oti qa prepei na oloklhrwqei kai otan exoyme, ola ayta ta stoixeia mprosta mas, o kaqenas qa mporei na bgalei ta symperasmata toy. Apla, egw kalesa na mh bgazoyme symperasmata prin oloklhrwqei ayth h ereyna. Mporei na kanoyme bebaia ektimhseis, na anazhtoyme me to diko mas tropo thn alhqeia, symballontas sthn prospaqeia poy ginetai na gnwrisei o ellhnikos laos ola ta epimeroys stoixeia poy synistoyn thn plhrh, antikeimenikh kai polypleyrh enhmerwsh twn politwn. Qa prepei omws na sebastoyme kai to gegonos oti einai se ejelijh mia ereyna. Emeis epishma s' ayto to plaisio kinoymaste.

KARAGIANNH: Symfwna me shmerino dhmosieyma toy "Eleyqeroy Typoy", o Eisaggeleas k. Gerakhs ena 24wro prin apo to qanato toy Sorin Matei eixe mia idiwtikh synomilia mazi toy. To erwthma moy einai an to periexomeno ayths ths syzhthshs h ayto kaq' eayto to gegonos exei perielqei se gnwsh ths Kybernhshs.

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw to symban ayto. O k. Gerakhs proshlqe na parei kataqesh apo ton kratoymeno kai asqenh Sorin Matei. Plhroforhqhka oti den mporese na parei ayth thn kataqesh sto nosokomeio ths Nikaias epeidh htan se katastolh o Matei. Apo kei kai pera an exei ginei kapoia syzhthsh toy k. Gerakh me ton Matei, to periexomeno ths qa to gnwrizei o k. Gerakhs. Fantazomai oti an klhqei na kataqesei tis dikes toy apoceis h to ti gnwrizei gia to qema ayto, qa diafwtisei kai emas.

BITALHS: Milhsate gia kapoio nomo gia th metanasteysh. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw poy exei ftasei h proetoimasia aytoy toy nomoy. Sth diadikasia ths syntajhs aytoy toy nomoy exoyn lhfqei ypoch qeseis kai exoyn ginei syzhthseis me organwseis mh kybernhtikes oi opoies drasthriopoioyntai ston tomea kata toy ratsismoy kai ths yperaspishs twn Anqrwpinwn Dikaiwmatwn; Kai ena deytero erwthma: Eipate oti den prepei na epidoqoyme se "kynhgi magisswn" me toys laqrometanastes. Epeidh fainomena katapathshs anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn kai ratsismoy ekdhlwnontai se paneyrwpaiko epipedo, qelw na parathrhsw to ejhs: Oti palaiotera oi kybernhseis toy PASOK eixan qesei ws proteraiothta otan askoysan thn Proedria ths E. E. th syntajh mias odhgias se paneyrwpaiko epipedo gia thn antimetwpish aytwn twn fainomenwn. Isxyei gia thn ellhnikh kybernhsh shmera ayto to qema; Yparxei ayth h proteraiothta;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poia einai h qesh ths Kybernhshs, opws epishs kai me poia apofasistikothta kai safhneia antimetwpisame fainomena jenofobias otan ekdhlwqhkan sthn patrida mas. Ara, einai aney shmasias na syzhtoyme twra gia na anakalycoyme poia einai h qesh ths Kybernhshs se ena shmantiko kata thn apoch mas qema poy afora tis sxeseis twn anqrwpwn s' ayth thn xwra. Oson afora to metanasteytiko nomosxedio -as to onomasw etsi, parolo poy den einai kai poly dokimos o oros- oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi kai oi yphresiakoi paragontes poy asxoloyntai me ayto, asfalws, otan diatypwsoyn oloklhrwmenh th qesh ths Kybernhshs, qa erqoyn se epafh kai me koinwnikoys foreis kai alloys paragontes oi opoioi exoyn gnwsh kai gnwmh gia to qema ayto, prokeimenoy na lhfqoyn kai ayta ypoch. Gnwrizete, omws, poly kala oti h protash ths Kybernhshs, -giati exw kai egw mia tetoia empeiria- einai apotelesma ths ergasias twn stelexwn ths Kybernhshs. Alliws, den exoyme protash ths Kybernhshs, alla diaforwn allwn forewn poy mporei se teleytaia analysh oi protaseis aytes na mhn aphxoyn tis qeseis ths Kybernhshs. H Kybernhsh qa pei thn apoch ths kai thn apoch ayth qa th qesei ypoch twn endiaferomenwn prokeimenoy kai ekeinoi na diatypwsoyn th gnwmh toys. H Kybernhsh, bebaiws, -ayto einai to nohma ths synennohshs kai ths synergasias- qa ajiopoihsei opoies apoceis einai xrhsimes kai qa qesei to qema, otan erqei h wra, sthn ellhnikh Boylh, prokeimenoy na lhfqei h sxetikh apofash. Ayto to lew giati kai egw, prosfata, eishghqhka ena nomosxedio kai akoysa thn kathgoria oti diatypwsa thn protash moy xwris na syzhthsw me koinwnikoys foreis. Asfalws, egw diatypwnw thn protash ths Kybernhshs, thn opoia qetw ypoch twn koinwnikwn forewn kai toys kalw na ekqesoyn tis apoceis toys, se ena epomeno stadio. Pantote etsi ginetai. Den yparxei kybernhsh h opoia syzhta me toys foreis kai meta katalhgei na diatypwnei thn apoch ths. Diatypwnei thn apoch ths, syzhta me toys koinwnikoys foreis, ajiopoiei opoies apoceis qewrei oti einai xrhsimes kai kataqetei ena nomosxedio sth Boylh, afoy exei labei ypoch oles tis apoceis poy exoyn ekfrastei. Ayth einai h diadikasia.

BITALHS: Qa epimeinei h ellhnikh Kybernhsh sthn palaioterh qesh poy exei diatypwqei gia mia paneyrwpaikh politikh...

REPPAS: Ayth einai h politikh mas, paramenoyme s' ayth thn politikh. Me opoio prosforo tropo mporoyme na thn apotypwsoyme ws politikh ths E. E., na eiste bebaios oti qa to epidiwjoyme, giati s' ayth thn kateyqynsh synexizoyme na kinoymaste. Den exei allajei kaqoloy o prosanatolismos mas.

KIAOS: Akoysa mia apanthsh kai qelw na moy dieykrinisete an h emplokh me thn ennoia ths armodiothtas, dhladh, toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajews eixe stamathsei ews thn eisagwgh toy asqenoys sto Nosokomeio ths Nikaias h oxi.

REPPAS: Den gnwrizete oti htan kratoymenos o Sorin Matei; Stoys kratoymenoys yparxoyn organa ths Astynomias.

KIAOS: Ara eixe kai ekei emplokh. Kai sth metagwgh toy apo ekei sto Nosokomeio Fylakwn pali;

REPPAS: H emplokh stamata apo thn wra poy eperxetai o qanatos, apo thn wra poy den yparxei kratoymenos, apo thn wra poy oi dynameis ths Astynomias kai to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs den exoyn armodiothta na asxolhqoyn me to sygkekrimeno qema.

KIAOS: Kai o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs edhlwse "oi nomoi epitassoyn oti o poliths prepei na tygxanei ths prostasias kai yphrethshs twn organwn toy kratoys opoiosdhpote kai an einai". An gnwrizete ayto to deontologiko "prepei" an efarmosthke kai sthn prokeimenh periptwsh.

REPPAS: Ola ayta qa ta antimetwpisei h ereyna h opoia ginetai. An exoyn ginei laqh, qa apodoqoyn oi eyqynes s' aytoys poy tis exoyn. Gi' ayto ginetai kai h ereyna. An eixame thn entypwsh oti ola eginan kalws den yphrxe logos na diataxqei h ereyna se diafora epipeda. Kai gnwrizete oti o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs dietaje amesws th dienergeia iatrodikastikhs kai dikastikhs ereynas. Apo kei kai pera, bebaiws, sto plaisio ths Politeias mas, kaqe poliths ajiwnei, exei dikaiwma kai ypoxreoyntai ta organa ths Politeias na ton antimetwpizoyn isotima me oloys toys alloys polites. Aytos einai kanonas.

MIXAHL: Shmera, h efhmerida ta "NEA", dhmosieyei thn plhroforia oti o Sorin diapragmateyotan kai sxedon eixe oloklhrwqei h syzhthsh, na afhsei toys omhroys kai na kanei antallagh me ton astyfylaka Krystalogiannh. Ayto mataiwqhke me parembash anwqen. To erwthma einai, h Kybernhsh exei ypoch ths kati tetoio; H politikh hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy, to hjere;

REPPAS: Parakoloyqhsame oloi th syzhthsh poy eixe o kakopoios me toys ekproswpoys toy thleoptikoy staqmoy. Htan se anoikto diktyo h syzhthsh ayth. Den proekyce poyqena, kapoia stigmh o Matei na dexetai na antallajei toys omhroys poy eixe me to sygkekrimeno astyfylaka. Den exei prokycei kati tetoio. Exei prokycei, apo thn pleyra toy Sorin Matei, kapoia apodoxh enos tetoioy endexomenoy;

MIXAHL: Tote na sas rwthsw to ejhs: An einai etsi opws mas ta lete, giati o tote Arxhgos ths Astynomias k. Basilopoylos, prin mpoyn oi dynameis Asfaleias sto diamerisma, syzhtoyse me ton Matei;

REPPAS: Syzhtoysan me ton Matei. Syzhtoyse kai o Arxhgos ths Astynomias kai o Yparxhgos.

MIXAHL: Egine mia tetoia syzhthsh;

REPPAS: Den proekyce opoiadhpote tetoia ejelijh gia ton aplo logo -kai nomizw oti einai apotypwmeno ayto stis kasetes poy o kaqenas mporei na exei sth diaqesh toy- oti o Matei den dexqhke opoiadhpote synennohsh s` ayto to epipedo. To eipe ayto. Apo thn allh, asfalws, kapoies tetoies skeceis eginan. Diatypwqhke mia tetoia idea, giati epishs gnwrizw oti dhmosiws o astyfylakas Krystalogiannhs, eipe oti prosferetai na doqei ws omhros ston kakopoio. Nomizw oti to eipe ayto. Einai ki ayto katagegrammeno.

MIXAHL: Afoy, loipon, o sygkekrimenos astyfylakas enhmerwse toys anwteroys toy oti dexetai na mpei se mia tetoia diadikasia. Oi anwteroi toy, loipon, giati den proxwrhsan sthn ylopoihsh ths. Eseis, ws politikh hgesia, ennow o k. Papadogiannakhs kai en synexeia olh h Kybernhsh, den rwthse giati den to kanate ayto, afoy to hqele o idios o astyfylakas.

REPPAS: Gia enan poly aplo logo. Giati parablepete oti sthn periptwsh poy syzhtoyme o apeilwn kai o ekbiazwn htan o kakopoios aytos, o opoios epixeirhse na epibalei toys oroys toy. An pragmatika htan kati to opoio zhtoyse, qa mporoyse isws na exei parei mia allh troph to qema ayto. Den yphrje, omws, opoiadhpote synexeia. Kai to gnwrizete.

KARAGIANNH: Me aformh thn apanthsh poy dwsate ston k. Mixahl, mia dieykrinistikh erwthsh, k. Ypoyrge. Oi mones plhrofories poy exei h Kybernhsh sth diaqesh ths, ayth th stigmh, gia th diapragmateysh me ton kakopoio, einai osa akoyse kai eide apo ton thleoptiko staqmo kai th synomilia toy synadelfoy mas me ton Matei;

REPPAS: Eipa, apantwntas se paromoia erwthsh, oti h plhroforhsh poy exw kai egw h kai eseis, thn exoyme apo anqrwpoys poy einai aythkooi h aytoptes martyres. Sth sygkekrimenh syzhthsh egw eimai aythkoos martyras. Ayth einai h diafora. Asfalws, gnwrizoyme pragmata ta opoia exoyn doqei se mas ws plhrofories apo paragontes poy htan parontes, poy gnwrizoyn, poy syzhthsan, poy exoyn sxesh. Gia to sygkekrimeno eipa, epeidh htan dhmosia h syzhthsh, oti oloi thn parakoloyqhsame.

MIXAHL: Htan safhs h apanthsh sas sto erwthma moy, alla yparxei ena diasthma para poly mikro poy einai h syzhthsh toy k. Basilopoyloy me ton Matei, prin mpei h Astynomia mesa. Ayto to pragma den dhmosiopoihqhke kai eseis, opws lete twra, exete kapoies plhrofories apo aythkooys, apo paristamenoys, poy qa tis kataqesete. Apo kei sas rwtw, an teqhke tetoio qema, opws dhmosieyoyn shmera ta "NEA" kai moy apanthsate...

REPPAS: Apanthsa etsi gia enan poly aplo logo. Giati aytoy toy gegonotos eimai kai egw aythkoos martyras, opws xiliades Ellhnes kai eseis, bebaiws. Apo ekei kai pera, ola ta alla ta epimeroys, qa afhsoyme na ejetastoyn sto plaisio ths ereynas poy diejagetai, prokeimenoy na syllejoyme ayta ta stoixeia. Alliws, qa kanoyme anakrish emeis kai den einai swsto ayth thn wra.

ARGYROS: Fainetai oti olos o sxediasmos htan toy nyn Arxhgoy k. Gewrgakopoyloy. Epimenete akoma sthn apoch sas gia mh oysiastikh symmetoxh toy sthn epixeirhsh;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw thn apoch poy diatypwsa thn prwth mera. Apo ekei kai pera ta panta briskontai katw apo to mikroskopio twn dikastwn kai twn iatrodikastwn. Nomizw oti h ergasia poy qa kanoyn qa einai plhrhs kai egkyrh. Qa sebastoyme ta porismata ths ereynas toys, alla mexri na exoyme ta porismata toys, qa apofygoyme na kanoyme ypoqeseis.

MPOYATAR: Pws sxoliazete to gegonos oti h Ellada fetos dexqhke na symmetasxei sthn askhsh DYNAMIC MIX toy NATO, para th programmatismenh askhsh, entos aytoy toy plaisioy, me toyrkikh anameijh sto Aigaio kai eidika, an ayto einai mia endeijh anaqermanshs twn sxesewn me thn Toyrkia, liges meres malista, prin apo th diaskech ths Attaleias;

REPPAS: Sthn persinh analogh askhsh, gnwrizete oti den elabe meros h Toyrkia, giati diafwnoyse me to sxediasmo ths askhshs, epeidh sygkekrimena den symperilambanontan sthn askhsh ayth, tmhmata sth boreioanatolikh perioxh toy Aigaioy. Symmeteixe h Ellada. Fetos, symmetexoyn kai h Ellada kai h Toyrkia, mazi me tis alles xwres. Sto sxediasmo ths askhshs perilambanontai, pragmati, gia ena poly mikro tmhma ths askhshs ayths, perioxes sto kentriko kai notio Aigaio. Kamia sxesh me tis perioxes gia tis opoies perysi diatypwqhke ayth h enstash kai odhghse thn Toyrkia se apoxwrhsh apo thn askhsh. Ayto to opoio mporw, shmera, na pw einai oti ayto to mikro tmhma ths askhshs qa ginei xwris th symmetoxh twn ellhnikwn dynamewn oi opoies, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, qa antidrasoyn opws se analoges periptwseis sto parelqon.

MPOYATAR: Nai, alla para tayta h Ellada apodexqhke...

REPPAS: Egw, qa elega, oti h Toyrkia apodexqhke na mh symperilambanontai tmhmata poy isws hqele.

KIAOS: Otan lete, na mh symperilambanontai, anafereste sth Lhmno, sygkekrimena, gia na mhn exoyme parejhghseis, gi` ayto to lew; Sta tmhmata toy boreioy Aigaioy htan pagio aithma ths Elladas na perilambanetai h Lhmnos mesa.

REPPAS: Milhsa gia th boreioanatolikh perioxh toy Aigaioy. Milaw sygkekrimena. H askhsh ayth pote den aforoyse th Lhmno.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qa hqela ena sxolio sas gia to gegonos oti to tmhma ths askhshs, to opoio diejagetai entos toy ellhnikoy FIR, exei anateqei sthn eyqynh ths Toyrkias.

REPPAS: Kanete laqos. Perysi, enas deyteros logos gia ton opoion apeixe apo thn askhsh h Toyrkia, htan akribws, to poios qa exei ton elegxo ths askhshs. Me th nea allagh sth domh toy NATO kai sthn epixeirhsiakh drasthriothta twn dynamewn toy, antimetwpisthke kai ayto to qema.

SARANTAKOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, pws sxoliazei h Kybernhsh ena eggrafo, poy dhmosieyei shmera o "ELEYQEROS TYPOS" kai ypografetai apo th "Symboyleytikh Epitroph Toyrkikhs Meionothtas, poy leei oti kaqe Toyrkos prepei na sthrijei toys ypochfioys ths toyrkikhs meionothtas sthn Ellada". Ayto to eggrafo to ypografei h Symboyleytikh Epitroph Toyrkikhs Meionothtas, proedros ths opoias einai o boyleyths toy kybernwntos kommatos Gkalip Gkalip. Poio einai to diko sas sxolio;

REPPAS: Gnwrizw seira dhmosieymatwn ths efhmeridas sas poy anaferontai sth drasthriothta twn boyleytwn olwn twn kommatwn s` ayth thn perifereia. Den qa krinw th drasthriothta twn boyleytwn. Ayto to opoio mporw na pw, ayth thn wra, einai to ejhs: Einai gnwsth h prospaqeia ths Toyrkias na paroysiasei th qrhskeytikh meionothta ws eqnikh toyrkikh meionothta. Einai gnwsth h prospaqeia poy kanoyn diaforoi kykloi na yponomeysoyn thn politikh ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs, poy stoxeyei sthn isonomia kai thn isopoliteia, prokeimenoy na diathrhsoyn toys diaxwrismoys kai na ojynoyn deyterogeneis h tritogeneis antiqeseis. Ayto to opoio arkoymai na pw, einai oti tetoioy eidoys drasthriothtes den einai paradektes kai efoson, bebaiws, synistoyn kai paranomh drasthriothta, qa prepei na antimetwpizontai me ayto to pneyma. Oloi to gnwrizoyme, stis ekloges aytes, se olh th xwra kai th Qrakh, ypochfioi einai Ellhnes polites. Anqrwpoi oi opoioi epidiwkoyn na ekproswphsoyn toys sympolites toys, na bohqhsoyn na ginei kalyterh h zwh toys kai na feroyn thn proodo sthn perioxh toys. Gnwrizete poly kala oti oloi, prokeimenoy na laboyn meros s` ayth thn eklogikh diadikasia, exoyn kataqesei kapoia eggrafa gia na pistopoihqei oti syntrexoyn oi proypoqeseis sthn periptwsh toys, gia na einai ypochfioi. Apo ola ayta, loipon, prokyptei oti stis ekloges symmetexoyn Ellhnes polites. Den yparxoyn Toyrkoi ypochfioi sthn Ellada. Ara, loipon, peftei sto keno kaqe tetoia prospaqeia, xwris na paragnwrizw th systhmatikh epidiwjh kapoiwn kyklwn na dhmioyrgoyn mia atmosfaira misoys kai yponomeyshs ths omalhs poreias twn pragmatwn sthn perioxh.

SARANTAKOS: Qa moy epitrecete, omws, na pw oti, eipate gia prospaqeia na yponomeysoyn kapoioi kykloi thn prospaqeia ths Kybernhshs gia isonomia kai isopoliteia. Fainetai oti epikefalhs ayths ths prospaqeias einai enas boyleyths toy PASOK. Hqela na rwthsw, ws melos ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy PASOK, an skopeyete na parete kapoia metra apenanti ston Gkalip.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti den briskomai edw ws melos ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy PASOK. Epishs, gnwrizete oti ws Kybernhsh, sthrizomaste sthn pleiochfia ths Boylhs kai gnwrizete -allwste kai eseis kai oi synergates sas polles fores exete gracei gi` ayto- oti kathgoroyntai apo polles pleyras, gia polles energeies toys, o boyleyths toy PASOK, o boyleyths ths N. D. kai o boyleyths toy SYN., oi opoioi einai Ellhnes polites, exoyn orkistei pisth sto Syntagma, yphretoyn tis ypoqeseis toy ellhnikoy Kratoys kai yp' ayto to prisma drasthriopoioyntai, sto plaisio ths ennomhs tajhs ths xwras mas. Sto idio plaisio prepei na drasthriopoioyntai oloi ekeinoi, oi opoioi qeloyn na exoyn megalyterh h mikroterh symmetoxh stis eklogikes diadikasies. Den yparxei antilogos ep` aytoy.

KARBOYNH: Qelw na sas rwthsw gia thn antidrash ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs gia tis neoteres ejelijeis sthn Albania.

REPPAS: Sth geitonikh xwra oi dhmokratikoi qesmoi mporei kai prepei na leitoyrghsoyn ikanopoihtika kai pisteyw oti, sto plaisio ths nomimothtas kai ths syntagmatikhs tajhs ths Albanias, qa prepei na oloklhrwqoyn oi diadikasies, prokeimenoy -to syntomotero dynato- kai pali h geitonikh xwra na apokthsei mia isxyrh kybernhsh kai na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths xwras.

Eyxaristw poly.

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