Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-06-01

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 1 Ioynioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas. Kalh ebdomada kai kalo mhna.

H kaqysterhsh shmera, h opoia den htan problepomenh -kai to anagnwrizw- qewrhqhke skopimh logw ths sobarothtas toy qematos poy apasxolhse thn koinh synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs kai ths Politikhs Grammateias. Gia to qema ayto qa kanei analytikes dhlwseis o k. Papantwnioy. Emeis mporoyme na meinoyme se kapoies epishmanseis kai na asxolhqoyme kai me ta alla qemata ths epikairothtas.

* O Prwqypoyrgos dexetai ayth thn wra ton Ypoyrgo Politismoy ths Italias k. Beltroni.

* Ayrio, opws gnwrizete, qa ginei h pro hmerhsias diatajhs syzhthsh sth Boylh gia thn poreia ths xwras pros thn ONE.

* Thn Pempth, o Prwqypoyrgos anaxwrei gia thn Krimaia, prokeimenoy na labei meros sth Diaskech ths Pareyjeinias Synergasias, poy pragmatopoieitai sth Gialta. Qa ypografei o katastatikos xarths, h nea synqhkh, wste na labei kai typikh morfh, morfh sygkekrimenoy organoy h synergasia ayth. Qa einai parontes kai oi hgetes twn allwn xwrwn poy metexoyn s` ayth th Diaskech poy qa diarkesei dyo hmeres. O Prwqypoyrgos qa epistrecei thn Paraskeyh to brady.

* Shmera, h syzhthsh h opoia egine, sto plaisio ths koinhs synedriashs ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs kai ths Politikhs Grammateias aforoyse thn politikh ston tomea twn diarqrwtikwn allagwn se Organismoys toy Dhmosioy kai alloys foreis. Milhsame gia tis metoxopoihseis kai tis apokratikopoihseis oi opoies exoyn ejaggelqei kai prowqoyntai. Epibebaiwqhke h omofwnh apofash poy exoyme labei gia th metabibash toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas. H epilogh ayth paramenei ws exei ejaggelqei apo tis 30 Aprilioy aytoy toy etoys, otan labame th sxetikh apofash. H diadikasia qa oloklhrwqei entos toy xronodiagrammatos poy exoyme ejaggeilei. Anefera hdh oti h Genikh Syneleysh twn metoxwn ths Emporikhs qa ginei stis 19 Ioynioy. H diadikasia qa einai diafanhs. Qa exei xarakthra diagwnismoy. Pisteyoyme oti apotelei koinh pepoiqhsh pleon pws einai pros to symferon ths Trapezas kai twn metoxwn ths alla kai twn pelatwn ths na oloklhrwqei to syntomotero dynato ayth h diadikasia. H Kybernhsh, opws mexri twra, paramenei sth diaqesh twn endiaferomenwn na syzhthsei mazi toys qemata poy aforoyn to ergasiako kaqestws, to opoio dhmioyrgeitai stis nees aytes synqhkes. Epibebaiwnei kai pali th diaqesh ths ayth. Kalei th GSEE, thn OTOE, toys emplekomenoys foreis, prokeimenoy na syzhthqoyn ayta ta qemata, ta opoia kata thn apoch orismenwn forewn, xrhzoyn peraiterw dieykrinisewn kai aposafhnisewn enocei ths pwlhshs ths Trapezas. Pisteyoyme oti oloi analambanoyn tis eyqynes toys, wste h diadikasia ayth na oloklhrwqei to taxytero dynato. Einai pros to symferon olwn na mh xanoyme askopa xrono. Na syzhthsoyme epi ths oysias pleon to opoio problhma qewroyn kapoioi oti yparxei, meta thn proodo, oson afora th metabibash toy pleiochfikoy paketoy ths Ionikhs Trapezas.

Ayta eixa na sas pw se genikes grammes. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

KIAOS: Mia dieykrinish: Otan lete "diagwnismo" ...

REPPAS: Den einai akribws diagwnismos me prokhryjh, opws ton gnwrizete, alla metabibash metoxwn mesw toy Xrhmatisthrioy. H diadikasia ayth exei diagwnistiko xarakthra. Milhsa gia diadikasia diagwnistikoy xarakthra, gia na dwsw emfash sto oti einai mia diadikasia diafanhs kai antikeimenikh.

MIXAHL: Dhladh, pws qa mporesete eseis na balete mia diadikasia diagwnismoy; An kapoios erqei kai pei "prosferw to X poso, gia na parw toso paketo metoxwn", kapoios allos mporei na prosferei perissotero;

REPPAS: Ayth akribws einai h diadikasia poy exei diagwnistiko xarakthra. To pleiochfiko paketo twn metoxwn qa pwlhqei se ayton poy qa prosferei to kalytero antallagma, to megalytero antitimo.

KIAOS: Sthn omofwnh apofash poy eipate oti epanabebaiwqhke perilambanontai kai tyxon diafores ws pros toys xeirismoys h den yparxoyn pleon;

REPPAS: Den syzhthqhkan qemata ta opoia exoyn sxesh me to parelqon, prokeimenoy na poyme oti epi twn qematwn aytwn elhfqhsan kapoies apofaseis. H apofash h opoia epibebaiwqhke afora th metabibash toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Diatypwqhkan problhmatismoi gia to pws apo edw kai pera qa prepei na proxwrhsei h diadikasia ayth kai na oloklhrwqei. Sto plaisio ayto h Kybernhsh qa kanei to kalytero dynato. Kai opws exoyme pei kat` epanalhch, toso egw oso kai oi synarmodioi Ypoyrgoi, h Kybernhsh einai diaqesimh ana pasa stigmh, na syzhthsei me toys ergazomenoys, me toys ekproswpoys toys, me thn Omospondia kai th Synomospondia twn ergatwn Elladas ta qemata ta opoia aforoyn to ergasiako kaqestws twn ypallhlwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas h ta qemata ta opoia prokyptoyn meta to neo kaqestws poy diamorfwnetai me th metabibash toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Trapezas.

KIAOS: Poioi phra meros sth syskech;

REPPAS: Sth synedriash ayth phran meros ta melh ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs kai ths Politikhs Grammateias -den xreiazetai na ta epanalabw- ektos toy k. Kaklamanh o opoios apoysiazei sto ejwteriko. Elaban, epishs, meros plhn emoy, poy paristamai synhqws s` aytes tis synedriaseis, o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs k. E. Giannopoylos, o Ypoyrgos Ergasias k. M. Papaiwannoy kai o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs k. G. Rwmaios. Gnwrizete oti oi Ypoyrgoi aytoi exoyn ypo thn epopteia toys foreis kai leitoyrgies toy kratoys poy emplekontai s` ayth th diadikasia. Skopimo kai xrhsimo htan na akoystoyn oi apoceis toys kai na laboyn meros sth diamorfwsh twn qesewn ths Kybernhshs, sto plaisio mias tetoias synedriashs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Aytoi oi treis Ypoyrgoi phran meros kai apofasisthke poies qa einai oi peraiterw energeies ths Kybernhshs, an oi ypallhloi den symmorfwqoyn;

REPPAS: Opws eipa, prosdiorizetai to politiko plaisio, dinontai kateyqynseis meta apo tis syzhthseis se ayto to organo. Einai perissotero apo logiko na anamenei kaneis oti se mia synedriash me ayto to antikeimeno oi Ypoyrgoi me aytes tis armodiothtes eprepe na einai parontes. H apofash exei lhfqei. To xronodiagramma exei teqei. O stoxos einai dedomenos. Ayto to opoio mporoyme na poyme kai pali einai oti qeloyme me th symbolh olwn, xwris antiparaqeseis, xwris na anadeixqei se pedio nikhtwn kai htthmenwn h prospaqeia gia thn pwlhsh toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas, na proxwrhsoyme se ayth th diarqrwtikh allagh, poy einai pros ofelos kai twn metoxwn ths Trapezas kai twn pelatwn ths, alla kai pros ofelos toy ellhnikoy -as to onomasoyme etsi- trapezikoy systhmatos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Aytoi oi treis Ypoyrgoi hrqan gia na efarmosoyn thn apofash ths Kybernhshs me kaqe meso;

REPPAS: Apanthsa prin. Exw pei kat` epanalhch, oti kaqe nomimo meso prepei na xrhsimopoieitai, prokeimenoy na efarmozetai mia politikh. Ayth h qesh paramenei. Den yparxei kapoios o opoios na diafwnei se mia tetoia qesh, oti prepei na xrhsimopoioyme ta nomima mesa poy exoyme sth diaqesh mas, prokeimenoy na efarmosoyme tis apofaseis mas. Yparxoyn, bebaiws, kapoioi oi opoioi antistrateyontai ayth th genikh politikh qesh kai antidroyn me enan tetoio tropo o opoios deixnei elleich sebasmoy kai pros toys nomoys kai pros tis apofaseis twn organwn poy exoyn taxqei na yperaspizontai kai na diasfalizoyn thn efarmogh twn nomwn. Oloi oi Ypoyrgoi poy htan parontes kai oi sygkekrimenoi stoys opoioys anafereste, exoyn logo, logw armodiothtas, sta qemata ths sygkyrias.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Tsoxatzopoylos o opoios "den eixe katalabei" gi` ayth th diadikasia, symfwnhse shmera;

REPPAS: O k. Tsoxatzopoylos eixe katalabei apolytws. Htan ej ekeinwn poy eixan labei meros kai sthn prohgoymenh synedriash. Epanadiatypwqhke h omofwnh qesh ws pros ton tropo metabibashs toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Den yphrje pote opoiadhpote allh qesh. Den exei ekfrastei apo stelexos toy PASOK, toylaxiston se ayto to epipedo, mia diaforetikh proseggish toy qematos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio eixe ekfrasei kapoia diafwnia.

REPPAS: Kaqoloy. Kamia diafwnia. Ws pros to stoxo ayto, ws pros thn politikh ayth, kamia diafwnia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ws pros toys xeirismoys;

REPPAS: Prepei na sas pw oti ayto einai qema poy afora thn kaqhmerinh zwh twn politwn, pia. Kaqe qema poy mas apasxolei, logiko einai aytos o opoios to xeirizetai, na to xeirizetai me enan tropo ston opoio exei enswmatwsei kai ta ypokeimenika, ta proswpika stoixeia. Ayto den shmainei oti kaqe allos, qa ekane akribws to idio kai epeidh den qa ekane akribws to idio, prepei na bgainei kai to symperasma oti diafwnei stoys genikoys xeirismoys, sthn prospaqeia na epityxoyme toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. Tetoies kritikes epishmanseis panta exoyn th qesh toys. Kai panta ginontai. Akomh kai gia ta pio apla qemata poy apasxoloyn thn kaqhmerinh zwh mas. Poso mallon gia toso shmantika qemata. Prepei na sas pw, loipon, oti afenos epibebaiwqhke pws eimaste omofwna topoqethmenoi s` ayth thn politikh qesh gia thn apokratikopoihsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas kai afeteroy oloi symfwnoyme oti entos toy xronodiagrammatos qa prepei to syntomotero dynaton, kaqws qa proxwroyn oi diadikasies, na epanaleitoyrghsei h Trapeza.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mia dieykrinish se kati poy eipate: Sas eixa rwthsei kai moy eipate oti exei ginei dialogos me toys ergazomenoys, oti exei teleiwsei o dialogos. Twra giati toys kaleite pali na arxisei o dialogos; Ti sas ekane na toys kalesete;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola pote den eipa oti teleiwse o dialogos. Eipa oti exei ginei dialogos. Kai epanalambanw oti exei ginei dialogos. Kai otan edwsa ayth thn apanthsh, epeshmana taytoxrona oti h Kybernhsh einai diaqesimh na synexisei to dialogo sta qemata poy prokyptoyn, meta thn allagh toy kaqestwtos sthn Ionikh Trapeza. Idiws gia thn katoxyrwsh twn qesewn ergasias. Ayto eipa tote kai ayto epanalambanw. Lew kati to aytonohto, to poly logiko.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sas rwtoysa an qa toys kalesete kai legate exei ginei dialogos.

REPPAS: Den rwthsate an qa toys kalesoyme. Me rwthsate an exei ginei dialogos kai sas eipa oti exei ginei dialogos. Eipa, bebaiws, exei ginei dialogos kai den to jerete, ean qetete ayto to erwthma. Dialogos -qa elega- dyskolos, epiponos, alla oxi paragwgikos, opws edeijan ta apotelesmata poy eixame. Dialogos, omws, exei ginei. To oti h Kybernhsh einai diaqesimh na synexisei na syzhta ta qemata poy prokyptoyn kai ayto to tonisa apo tote. H diaqesh mas ayth paramenei sto akeraio.

PAPAXRHSTOS: Kata thn apoch ths Kybernhshs yparxoyn qemata ta opoia den exoyn ejantlhqei kata to prohgoymeno stadio toy dialogoy kai prepei na epanateqoyn sth fash ayth; Kai poia einai ayta ta qemata;

REPPAS: Diatypwnetai apo diafores pleyres h apoch oti kapoia qemata qa prepei na ejetastoyn, prokeimenoy na breqoyn oi kalyteres dynates lyseis. H Kybernhsh exei epejergastei ena synoliko sxedio, prokeimenoy na oloklhrwqei h diadikasia pwlhshs ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Prepei na pw oti o dialogos o opoios egine mexri twra me toys ekproswpoys twn ergazomenwn den exei apodwsei. Ayto den shmainei oti yparxei ena xroniko orio to opoio mas empodizei na synexisoyme ayth th syzhthsh, efoson to epiqymoyn kai oi endiaferomenoi, epi qematwn ta opoia qewroyn anoixta kai prepei na antimetwpistoyn. Ayto prepei na ginei, bebaiws, entos logikoy xronikoy diasthmatos. Na arxisei kai na oloklhrwqei, efoson ginei, ayth h syzhthsh, xwris bebaiws na qigei ton pyrhna ths politikhs epiloghs poy einai h metabibash toy pleiochfikoy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas. H Kybernhsh einai ana pasa stigmh diaqesimh na syzhta qemata poy apasxoloyn toys ergazomenoys se oloys toys tomeis, poly de perissotero sto sygkekrimeno opoy exoyme mia metabolh, mia poiotikh metabolh sto kaqestws ths Trapezas. Alla ayta ta qemata epi twn opoiwn emeis exoyme pei thn apoch mas, epanalambanw oti an kapoioi qewroyn oti xreiazetai na syzhthqoyn peraiterw, eimaste sth diaqesh toys na ta syzhthsoyme.

ELENOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, dyo qemata ta opoia exoyn shmantikh ajia idiaitera meta th shmerinh apofash h opoia epanabebaiwqhke. Prwton, lete oti qa xrhsimopoihqei kaqe nomimo meso, prokeimenoy na efarmostoyn oi apofaseis. Kai erwtw: Ola, ta panta; Akoma kai epembash astynomikwn dynamewn gia efarmogh dikastikwn apofasewn; To deytero erwthma: Eipate oti diatypwqhkan problhmatismoi gia to "pws" epi ths diadikasias. Einai katanohto. Qelw, omws, mono mia dieykrinish peraiterw: Ti akribws mporei na zhthqhke apo kapoioys ek twn symmetasxontwn sth shmerinh synedriash gia diaforetikoys xeirismoys gia paradeigma; Diatypwqhkan, dhladh, apoceis h yphrjan diaforetikes ektimhseis gia to pws qa proxwrhsoyn me allo tropo; Ti akribws synebh;

REPPAS: S` aytes tis synedriaseis antallassetai h peira kai h gnwsh, prokeimenoy h telikh epilogh gia to pws qa efarmostei mia politikh qesh na einai artioterh. Gnwrizete poly kala oti h apofash poy exei lhfqei einai dedomenh. Oloi symfwnoyme, oson afora ton pyrhna ayths ths politikhs epiloghs. Apo kei kai pera, logiko einai na xrhsimopoioyntai ola ta nomima mesa ta opoia exoyme sth diaqesh mas, oxi mono emeis ws Kybernhsh, alla kai h idia h Trapeza me th dioikhsh ths. Kai oi idioi oi metoxoi ths Trapezas. Ta asfalistika Tameia poy einai en pollois metoxoi ths Trapezas. Oloi aytoi qa prepei na exoyn logo kai parembainontas stis ejelijeis, na diasfalizoyn thn omalh leitoyrgia toy Idrymatos, giati toys anhkei. Ejyphretei ta dika toys symferonta ayth h diadikasia. Den einai dynaton na einai adiaforoi. Bebaiws, oi xeirismoi oi opoioi qa ginoyn apo dw kai pera einai sxedon sto synolo toys gnwstoi. Den yparxei kati kainoyrgio. An yphrxe kati to qaymatoyrgo, qa to eixame xrhsimopoihsei. Den einai dynaton na anakalycoyme shmera thn pyritida. Epidiwkoyme th synennohsh, prokeimenoy na oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia, afoy einai pros to symferon olwn twn pleyrwn. Kai bebaiws gia epimeroys qemata ta opoia aforoyn sygkekrimenoys tomeis kai apoteloyn pedio problhmatismwn gia merida twn ergazomenwn, h Kybernhsh, opws panta etsi kai twra, einai diaqesimh na syzhthsei epi twn qematwn aytwn mazi toys. Den yparxei kati allo.

KACAMPELHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h qesh poy jerame ws twra, einai oti sas endiaferei h diasfalish twn qesewn ergasias gia ta epomena dyo xronia. Ayth h qesh telei ypo epanejetash;

REPPAS: Eixa pei pantote, apantwntas se sxetikes erwthseis, oti to qema ths ergasias twn ypallhlwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas einai ena krisimo megeqos to opoio prosmetrhsame, prokeimenoy na paroyme ayth thn apofash. Na proxwrhsoyme, dhladh se pwlhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas kai oxi se sygxwneysh ths me thn Emporikh, opws proteinan kapoioi alloi, me kostos omws gia tis qeseis ergasias 3.000 kai pleon ypallhlwn. Ayto to opoio epanalambanw shmera einai oti mas endiaferei na diasfalisoyme to ypertato agaqo ths ergasias gia toys ypallhloys ths Trapezas, sto megisto dynato baqmo. An h GSEE, h OTOE, to Swmateio twn ergazomenwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas qewroyn oti epi toy qematos aytoy exoyn kati parapanw to opoio prepei na proteinoyn kai na syzhthsoyn, eimaste sth diaqesh toys na to syzhthsoyme. Ayto, epanalambanw, htan kati poy den arnhqhkame na kanoyme apo thn prwth kiolas stigmh. Na syzhthsoyme epi toy qematos aytoy. Alla oi antidraseis den ekdhlwnontai epi toy qematos aytoy. Oi antidraseis ekdhlwnontai epi ths politikhs gia th metabibash toy paketoy twn metoxwn ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Ayto den to syzhtoyme. Ayto einai eilhmmenh apofash h opoia qa oloklhrwqei. Qeloyme na oloklhrwqei me th symbolh olwn twn pleyrwn. An yparxoyn qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn toys ergazomenoys kai pisteyoyn oti entos aytoy toy plaisioy, to opoio prepei na einai kai h bash twn syzhthsewn, prepei na mas apasxolhsoyn, hmastan, eimaste kai qa eimaste sth diaqesh toys gia na ta syzhthsoyme.

KACAMPELHS: Egw den rwthsa gia tis antidraseis, egw rwthsa -gia na to pw sxhmatika- an gia thn Kybernhsh yparxei qema na qesei enocei ths diagwnistikhs diadikasias ena pio sygkekrimeno oro p.x. oti den qa apolyqei kanenas ergazomenos, oxi gia ta epomena dyo xronia, alla sto dihnekes.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei diatypwsei plhrws thn protash ths. An sto plaisio aytwn twn syzhthsewn prokycoyn symperasmata ta opoia einai wfelima gia thn Trapeza kai gia toys ergazomenoys, h Kybernhsh exei olh thn kalh diaqesh na ta dei me mia poly qetikh matia. Ayto, omws, menei na fanei sto plaisio mias tetoias syzhthshs. Alla den akoyme kamia oloklhrwmenh protash epi toy qematos aytoy apo kamia allh pleyra. Akoyme mono ena geniko aforistiko antilogo gia th mh pwlhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Etsi, omws, den einai dynaton na ginei dialogos. Den einai dynaton na symfwnhsoyme.

LAKOPOYLOS: Epeidh akoygetai ligo paradojo na syzhtate tesseris wres, gia na epanabebaiwsete mia hdh eilhmmenh apofash, qa hqela merikes dieykriniseis: Kat` arxhn, s` ayto to dialogo poy syzhtate, ston opoio, opws eipate, oi endiaferomenoi qa qesoyn to opoio problhma nomizoyn, ta opoia problhmata krinoyn, eseis ayta ta problhmata poy endexomenws qa qesoyn oi endiaferomenoi, ta entopisate;

REPPAS: Emeis -epanalambanw- exoyme plhrh kai diaygh protash, oson afora to qema ths pwlhshs ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Apo ekei kai pera, an oi ergazomenoi exoyn sygkekrimeno qema na qesoyn, parakaloyme na analaboyn tis eyqynes toys kai na to qesoyn. Alla na qesoyn sygkekrimeno qema. Idiws -giati ayto fantazomai einai to meizon qema to opoio toys apasxolei kai toys eyaisqhtopoiei- to qema ths katoxyrwshs twn qesewn ergasias, h Kybernhsh, opws xqes, etsi kai shmera, paramenei sth diaqesh toys na to syzhthsei.

LAKOPOYLOS: Eseis den ta syzhthsate ayta;

REPPAS: Syzhthsame gia to ti einai ayto to opoio epiqymoyme na kanoyme sthn Ionikh Trapeza. Ayto to opoio epiqymoyme na kanoyme einai gnwsto. Den einai dynato, xwris na yparxei diaforetikh proseggish apo opoiondhpote allo, na syzhtoyme qemata, ta opoia den exoyn pleon antikeimeno.

LAKOPOYLOS: Aytos o dialogos, kyrie Ypoyrge, qa ginei me to dedomeno mias dikastikhs apofashs kai me thn apeilh mias akomh dikastikhs apofashs;

REPPAS: Ta organa toy kratoys, sto plaisio enos kratoys dikaioy, prepei na leitoyrgoyn. H Kybernhsh exei mia politikh qesh, thn opoia exei diatypwsei kat` epanalhch. Den th diatypwnei shmera gia prwth fora. Apla, shmera, me aformh th synedriash poy egine kai th syzhthsh poy kanoyme edw, epanerxomaste legontas pws eimaste sth diaqesh ths GSEE, ths OTOE, toy Swmateioy twn ergazomenwn ths Ionikhs na syzhthsoyme qemata poy aforoyn th diasfalish twn qesewn ergasias.

LAKOPOYLOS: H Kybernhsh qa ypodeijei sth dioikhsh ths Emporikhs h ths Ionikhs Trapezas na allajei th qesh ths pros thn nyn kateyqynsh ths OTOE;

REPPAS: Den exei kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. H dioikhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas qa prepei na kanei ta deonta, prokeimenoy na diasfalisei ta symferonta ths Trapezas. Allwste, einai mia ypoqesh ayth poy kanoyme, doqentos oti mexri twra den exei ekdhlwqei, me ton kalytero tropo, h diaqesh twn ergazomenwn sthn Ionikh, na laboyn meros se mia tetoia diadikasia syzhthshs. Yparxei mia plhrhs arnhsh. Yparxei mia rhjh -qa elega- me thn epilogh thn opoia exoyme kanei, prokeimenoy na proxwrhsoyme sthn pwlhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Kai an ayto to shmeio den antimetwpistei, den arqei dhladh ayth h diaxwristikh grammh, h opoia mas odhgei se plhrh rhjh, den einai eykolo na syzhthsoyme. H Kybernhsh, opws panta, epanalambanw kai shmera, einai sth diaqesh twn ergazomenwn na syzhthsei ta qemata poy toys apasxoloyn, idiws oson afora th diasfalish twn qesewn ergasias.

LAKOPOYLOS: Kati akoma: Sth synedriash diatypwqhke apo kapoio melos, apo kapoion Ypoyrgo, h apoch oti h ypoqesh ths Ionikhs apeilei h einai endexomeno na apeilhsei th synoxh ths koinoboyleytikhs pleiochfias;

REPPAS: Oxi, den teqhke tetoio qema.

LAKOPOYLOS: Qa gnwrizete oti yparxei h plhroforia oti kykloforei ena keimeno, to opoio ypografoyn boyleytes toy PASOK kai prokeitai na to steiloyn ston Prwqypoyrgo. To erwthma moy einai, an o k. Shmiths egkrinei tetoies energeies.

REPPAS: O k. Shmiths dexetai epistoles apo diaforoys paragontes, stelexh toy Kommatos kai ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas. O k. Shmiths, omws, opws exei deijei sthn prajh, exei energopoihsei tis dhmokratikes syllogikes diadikasies sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai sto PASOK, wste na exei kaqe stelexos th dynatothta na ekfrazei ekei, tis apoceis toy. Kai o k. Shmiths epiqymei na anadeijoyme oloi th qesmikh leitoyrgia toy Kommatos kai ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas, symballontas, wste oi diadikasies aytes na einai plhreis, me th symmetoxh olwn kai ekei na akoygontai oles oi apoceis, prokeimenoy telikws, na odhgoymeqa se mia synqesh aytwn twn apocewn, sto plaisio ths dhmioyrgikhs enothtas. Ej oswn gnwrizw, omws, den yparxei kapoia tetoia epistolh sthn opoia anafereste.

DHMAKAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, gia na katalaboyme ligo ayto to tetrawro: Eipate oti anaptyxqhkan problhmatismoi gia to ti qa ginei apo edw kai pera. Mporeite na mas dwsete merika stoixeia...

REPPAS: Gia ta eidika qemata, k. Dhmaka, dinei synenteyjh o k. Papantwnioy stoys oikonomikoys syntaktes.

DHMAKAS: Na doyme, ligo, th fysh twn problhmatismwn poy anaptyxqhkan apo kaqe pleyra, gia na katalaboyme poy to paei h Kybernhsh. Giati apo osa lete, oi stoxoi einai oi idioi, oi diadikasies oi idies, ta xronodiagrammata ta idia. Ti allazei;

REPPAS: Den allazei tipota. Giati sas kanei entypwsh ayto; Ayto eleipe na allazei, kiolas, kati. Ayto deixnei th staqerothta, thn apofasistikothta kai th synepeia poy epideiknyei h Kybernhsh sthn efarmogh ths politikhs ths. Den allazei tipota.

DHMAKAS: Kapoioys apo toys endeiktikoys problhmatismoys twn Ypoyrgwn poy symmeteixan, mporeite na mas peite, gia na to ermhneysoyme;

REPPAS: Den yparxoyn "endeiktikoi problhmatismoi". Yparxoyn apoceis poy ekfrazontai gia to pws qa fqasoyme, me th megalyterh epityxia, sto stoxo poy exoyme qesei. Kai einai stoxos ton opoio omofwna apofasisame.

DHMAKAS: Gia paradeigma;

REPPAS: H synergasia olwn. H dynatothta poy qa exei o kaqenas na symbalei qetika, prokeimenoy na oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia, to syntomotero dynato. H kalyterh enhmerwsh, h opoia prepei na ginei metajy twn stelexwn toy PASOK, poy lambanoyn meros s` ayth th diadikasia.

ELENOPOYLOS: Diapistwnete elleich synergasias, dhladh;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti panta yparxei periqwrio na exoyme kati kalytero apo ayto poy exoyme, hdh, petyxei se oloys toys tomeis.

MOSXOBAS: Poio einai to eylogo xroniko plaisio entos toy opoioy qa prepei na ekdhlwsoyn h GSEE kai h OTOE tis prwtoboylies toys;

REPPAS: Yparxoyn kapoies diadikasies, oi opoies problepontai apo tis keimenes diatajeis, sta xronika oria entos twn opoiwn prepei na apofasisqei mia allh diadikasia metabibashs metoxwn. Sas eipa mia hmeromhnia oroshmo, san ayth h opoia afora th syneleysh twn metoxwn ths Emporikhs Trapezas. Eipa 19 Ioynioy, to eipame proxqes, to epanalambanw kai shmera. Apo ekei kai pera, den yparxei kati allo to opoio na apotelei kainoyrgia apofash h na dhmioyrgei kainoyrgia dedomena. Apla logiko einai otan synedriazei ayto to organo, na syzhtoyntai ta qemata ths sygkyrias, ta qemata ths politikhs sygkyrias. Qa htan ekplhjh, an den ta syzhtoysame. Metajy twn allwn aforoyn tis kinhtopoihseis poy exoyn proklhqei apo thn apofash gia thn pwlhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas.

MOSXOBAS: Oi apoceis oson afora tis apokratikopoihseis einai dixasmenes sto kybernwn komma. Ayto problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei ejaggeilei thn politikh ths. Pisteyoyme oti einai swsth ayth h politikh. Qa thn yperaspistoyme sqenara kai qa thn efarmosoyme, giati einai pros to symferon toy topoy. Den qa ypoqhkeysoyme emeis to ayrio ths xwras, en onomati twn antidrasewn poy yparxoyn shmera kai prokaloyn ena proskairo politiko kostos, otan yparxei ayto to kostos. Ayto to opoio xreiazetai na kanoyme, einai na doylecoyme akomh perissotero, na enhmerwsoyme akomh perissotero toys ergazomenoys h kai ton ellhniko lao kai bebaiws na ejasfalisoyme th synainesh twn idiwn twn emplekomenwn s` aytes tis diadikasies, twn ergazomenwn, twn swmateiwn toys, afoy mesa apo mia diadikasia synennohshs toys peisoyme oti einai kai proswpiko toys symferon na oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia. Panta qa yparxei ena elleimma ston tomea ayto kai panta qa ysteroyme apo ton epiqymhto skopo, apo to epipedo dhladh sto opoio epiqymoyme na exoyme epityxei thn enhmerwsh, th synergasia, th syndromh olwn twn paragontwn kai twn proypoqesewn gia na oloklhrwsoyme thn politikh mas.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Ektimhsate an h apergia poy lambanei xwra ayth th stigmh sthn Ionikh synista, opws eipate prohgoymenws, elleich sebasmoy pros toys nomoys;

REPPAS: Asfalws yparxei mia kataxrhsh dikaiwmatos apo thn pleyra ergazomenwn, poly perissotero otan gnwrizete kai eseis kai oloi mas, oti oi kinhtopoioymenoi s' aytes tis periptwseis, den einai mono aytoi toys opoioys afora mia sygkekrimenh apofash. Den einai mono dhladh ypallhloi ths Ionikhs Trapezas. Gnwrizete poly kala pws yparxei enas pyrhnas diadhlwtwn, o opoios dinei thn paroysia toy se kaqe analogh peristash, mono kai mono gia na enantiwqei politika sthn Kybernhsh kai sthn politikh poy exei ejaggeilei. Allwste, einai ena fainomeno to opoio bebaiws einai epitrepto. Epitrepto einai o kaqenas na leei thn apoch toy, einai aparaithto omws na ginontai sebastes kai oi apofaseis ths pleiochfias twn ergazomenwn kai bebaiws oi apofaseis twn organwn ths Dikaiosynhs oi opoies prepei na ginontai sebastes.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: To gegonos oti khryjate paranomh mia apergia h opoia akomh sthn akroamatikh diadikasia sta dikasthria den exei khryxqei, den synista parembash sto ergo ths Dikaiosynhs;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti h prwth apofash exei ekdoqei apo dikasthrio poy khryje mia orismenh apergia paranomh. Ekkremoyn apofaseis dikasthriwn gia apergies oi opoies exoyn ejaggelqei apo syndikalistikoys foreis. Einai oi legomenes apergies allhleggyhs. Para poly kala gnwrizete kai eseis, opws oloi mas -eimaste arketa ypociasmenoi kai gi` ayto prepei na eimaste ypeyqynoi, na mhn prospaqoyme na ypekfygoyme dhmioyrgwntas entypwseis- oti oi kaloymenes apergies allhleggyhs ejaggellontai me ena tetoio tropo, wste na prokaloyn xronotribh. Na metakylietai h omalh leitoyrgia s` ena Idryma, opws einai en prokeimenw h Ionikh Trapeza mono kai mono me to na ejaggellontai nees apergies, wste na anamenoyme thn ekdosh apofasewn dikasthriwn epi twn newn aytwn ejaggelqoyswn apergiwn, me apotelesma mesw ayths ths parelkystikhs taktikhs o xronos na proxwraei xwris na yparxei apotelesma. Ayto einai kati to opoio, epanalambanw kai pali, antistrateyetai to pneyma toy nomoy. Einai ena texnasma to opoio xrhsimopoieitai. Kai gnwrizete poly kala oti h shmerinh Kybernhsh einai ayth poy exei katoxyrwsei kai me nomo ta dikaiwmata twn ergazomenwn kai tis syndikalistikes eleyqeries. Eipa kai proxqes, epanalambanw shmera, oti epi N.D. yphrxe diatajh nomoy me bash thn opoia opoios apergoyse, enw eixe khryxqei paranomh h apergia, odhgeito se apolysh me apofash ths Dioikhshs mono, xwris apozhmiwsh, malista. Kai katarghqhke ayth h diatajh apo to PASOK, giati qewrhsame oti htan yperbolika aytarxikh.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qewreite oti o Epitropos ths xwras o k. Papoytshs einai anypociastos gia thn orqothta ths kybernhtikhs politikhs, dhlwnontas oti eksygxronismos den ginetai me MAT;

REPPAS: Asfalws eksygxronismos den ginetai me MAT, den diafwnei kaneis. Ayto sto opoio omws qa diafwnhsoyme isws emeis edw einai to ti einai eksygxronismos kai pws xrhsimopoioyntai ta MAT. Giati ta MAT xrhsimopoihqhkan propagandistika enantion toy eksygxronismoy, den xrhsimopoioyntai apo ton eksygxronismo. Eidame telikws na tromokratoyntai oi astynomikes dynameis apo toys diadhlwtes h toys apergoys, oi opoioi enw epiteqhkan, opws eipa proxqes, stis astynomikes dynameis poy htan paroyses ston ergasiako xwro toys, fwnazan taytoxrona oti "h tromokratia den qa perasei". Enw aytoi oi opoioi tromokratoysan entos h ektos eisagwgikwn htan oi idioi oi diadhlwtes, oi opoioi malista eixan kai diafora antikeimena sth diaqesh toys, ta opoia kai xrhsimopoioysan. Ayto den prepei na diafeygei apo sas, apo mena, apo ton opoiondhpote. Einai mia alhqeia. Exei apotypwqei, to gnwrizei o ellhnikos laos kai epiteloys den prepei na krybomaste pisw apo to daktylo mas. Apo kei pera o kaqenas leei tis apoceis toy kai den einai dynaton mia Kybernhsh h opoia exei entolh apo ton ellhniko lao na efarmosei ena programma kai na kriqei gia thn efarmogh toy programmatos aytoy, otan oloklhrwsei th qhteia ths, to 2000, na brisketai ana pasa stigmh, kaqe mera ypo airesh. H Kybernhsh qa efarmosei thn politikh ths. Anagnwrizoyme tis dyskolies toy egxeirhmatos gia ton eksygxronismo ths xwras. Einai ena poly dyskolo egxeirhma, giati emeis monoi mas qesame filodojoys stoxoys kai qesame poly chla ton phxy sthn prospaqeia poy kanoyme. Nomizw, omws, oti ta apotelesmata qa einai tetoia, wste kai h krish toy ellhnikoy laoy, to 2000, na einai qetikh gia thn Kybernhsh mas.

KYRIAKIDOY: Pws qa poylhqei mia Trapeza h opoia th stigmh ayth den leitoyrgei logw apergias; Poios qa agorasei mia Trapeza h opoia einai kleisth logw apergias; Me poio tropo h Kybernhsh qa stamathsei ayth thn apergia efoson oi apergoi epimenoyn sto na mhn poylhqei h Trapeza;

REPPAS: Aytos einai o problhmatismos ths allhs pleyras toy lofoy. Exw pei kat' epanalhch oti apajiwnetai h Trapeza, asfalws, otan gia megalo xroniko diasthma paramenei ektos leitoyrgias. Otan ta stelexh ths h oi ypallhloi ths oi opoioi epiqymoyn na ergastoyn empodizontai na proselqoyn kai na analaboyn ergasia. Ayto akribws odhgei se meiwsh isws, ths ajias ths Trapezas kai antistrateyetai ta symferonta ths Trapezas kai twn ergazomenwn sthn Trapeza. Ayto leme, apo thn prwth stigmh, apeyqynomenoi kai stoys ergazomenoys kai se oloys poy parakoloyqoyn ayth thn ejelijh, me kapoia aporia, malista. Doqentos oti einai mia poly mikrh omada ayth h opoia krata se aixmalwsia, se omhria, thn Ionikh Trapeza kai den th bohqa na jeperasei to problhma poy exei.

KARASABBA: Qa hqela mia dieykrinish: Dhladh h Kybernhsh apokleiei thn apolysh apergwn afoy den symmorfwqoyn stis apofaseis toy nomoy h an afoy apotyxei kapoios dialogos.

REPPAS: Den problepetai ayth h diadikasia apo toys nomoys poy isxyoyn sthn patrida mas. An kapoios kanei kapoies ajiopoines prajeis, oi opoies einai ektos toy plaisioy askhshs twn syndikalistikwn dikaiwmatwn toy, bebaiws, qa antimetwpisqei analogws. Alla, oson afora thn askhsh twn syndikalistikwn dikaiwmatwn twn ergazomenwn, den problepetai, se opoiodhpote stadio, mia tetoia poinh.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Problepetai fylakish. Ayto qa efarmosqei;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala ti problepetai. H fylakish metatrepetai se xrhmatikh poinh. Ta gnwrizete poly kala ayta giati qa ftasoyme pia s` ena shmeio na zhtoyme oloi thn katalysh toy kratoys-dikaioy, na mhn efarmozontai apofaseis dikasthrioy kai o kaqenas na yperaspizetai kata to dokoyn to dikaio poy nomizei oti exei kai qa epidiwkei na epibalei ayto poy ekeinos qewrei swsto stoys alloys me biaioys tropoys. Mia tetoia koinwnia emeis oyte thn oramatisthkame, oyte prokeitai na periqalcoyme dynameis oi opoies thn oramatizontai h qeloyn na th dhmioyrghsoyn.

DHMTSAS: O Prwqypoyrgos zhthse h apaithse apo toys Ypoyrgoys prwths grammhs poy den exoyn bgei na sthrijoyn thn askoymenh politikh, na bgoyn kai na to kanoyn;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos epanelabe, opws kai alles fores exei pei, oti prepei me apofasistikothta kai staqerothta na epimenoyme se mia politikh, h opoia pisteyoyme oti einai swsth. Qa epityxoyme na thn efarmosoyme thn politikh ayth, an exoyme ejantlhsei ta oria synennohshs me oloys toys foreis poy exoyn sxesh me to sygkekrimeno antikeimeno. Aytos einai o stoxos, allwste, twn armodiwn ypoyrgwn, twn armodiwn forewn ths Kybernhshs kai twn organwn ths. O Prwqypoyrgos eipe kai pali oti prepei stis megales aytes tomes poy dhmioyrgoyn kai ena pedio gia anametrhseis, opws sto parelqon -kai anaferqhke stis agrotikes kinhtopoihseis- etsi kai twra, etsi kai opote allote xreiastei, qa prepei h Kybernhsh kai ola ta stelexh na eimaste sthn idia eyqeia grammh , dinontas th maxh yper ths politikhs thn opoia apo koinoy kai omofwna apofasisame.

PAPAXRHSTOS: Alla qemata plhn ths Ionikhs syzhthqhkan se ayto to tetrawro;

REPPAS: Den syzhthqhkan alla qemata, aplws egine mia para poly syntomh enhmerwsh apo ton k. Papadopoylo gia qemata ths armodiothtas toy.

ELENOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn polles ektimhseis, symfwna me tis opoies yparxei mia anataraxh sto eswteriko toy Kommatos sas me aformh aytes tis diarqrwtikes allages poy qelete na akoloyqhsete. H aformh ayth edw thn wra einai h Ionikh Trapeza. Qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: Ean h katastash sto komma syzhthqhke sth shmerinh synedriash twn dyo organwn, poies ektimhseis yphrjan kai poy katalhjate;

REPPAS: Den syzhthqhke, akribws, h katastash sto komma. Apla, metajy olwn oswn syzhthqhkan, egine mia anafora kai sthn anagkh na yparxei mia synenwsh twn kommatikwn dynamewn sto plaisio ayths ths kybernhtikhs prospaqeias, gia na exoyme ta kalytera apotelesmata. Den egine, dhladh, kapoia apotimhsh ths katastashs poy exei diamorfwqei sto eswteriko toy Kinhmatos mas. Ayto to opoio epishmanqhke apo osoys milhsan einai ayto akribws: oti qa prepei s` ayth th maxh na eimaste oloi mazi.

D. KAMPOYRAKHS: S` ayth th synedriash h se prohgoymenes, exete diapistwsei eseis kapoia diafora ektimhsewn, apocewn kai protasewn epi twn xeirismwn anamesa ston k. Papantwnioy kai ton k. Papaiwannoy;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw na exei prokycei kapoia tetoia diafwnia h na exei ekfrastei mia diaforetikh proseggish epi twn qematwn poy xeirizontai, logw synarmodiothtas, apo koinoy.

KIAOS: Skopeyete na proxwrhsete se tropopoihsh ths nomoqesias, wste na dyskoleyetai h prosfygh ek meroys twn Omospondiwn, opws h OTOE poy khryssei tis apergies tis opoies onomasate apergies allhleggyhs kai eipate oti "gnwrizoyme gia poio logo ginontai";

REPPAS: Den yparxei kamia tetoia skech. Oyte kata dianoia yparxei tetoio qema. Pisteyoyme oti exoyn eyqynh kai syneidhsh toy xreoys toys oi ergazomenoi kai mporoyn na xeirizontai ta qemata poy prepei na xeiristoyn me tetoio tropo, wste na symballoyn sthn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn. To gegonos oti mia para poly mikrh, ashmanth qa elega, omada ergazomenwn dhmioyrgei ena megalo problhma, den prokeitai na mas odhghsei se allagh twn arxwn poy aspazomaste h se tropopoihsh twn nomwn.

KIAOS: Otan xrhsimopoihsate kai shmera, opws kai proxqes thn ekfrash kataxrhstiko dikaiwma" exei kamia sxesh me to gegonos oti den khryje kataxrhstikh thn apergia to dikasthrio, para monon paranomh kai twra ekkremei h prosfygh ths OTOE;

REPPAS: Den exei kamia apolytws sxesh. Milhsa kai proxqes gia kataxrhsh dikaiwmatos, to epanelaba kai shmera. Gnwrizete poly kala oti otan khryxqhke paranomh h apergia, h oysia, to nohma, to periexomeno ayths ths apofashs einai ena kai monon ena: oti den prepei na ginei apergia sthn Ionikh Trapeza. Apo ekei kai pera khryxqhkan apergies apo thn Omospondia kai th Synomospondia, prokeimenoy, isws, na epideixqei etsi, allhleggyh pros toys ergazomenoys sthn Ionikh. Einai ena mpai-mpas, qa elega, prokeimenoy na jeperastei h prwth apofash toy dikasthrioy. Den nomizw, omws, oti prepei na mas krathsei agkylwmenoys s` ayto to telma. Qa prepei, to syntomotero dynato, na janaleitoyrghsei h Trapeza kai na oloklhrwqei h diadikasia pwlhshs ths. Aytos einai o stoxos kai ayto prepei na ginei.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qelw na rwthsw sygkekrimena, an sth synedriash poy egine teqhke ws endexomeno h energopoihsh ths diatajhs poy problepei fylakish twn apergwn, se periptwsh poy den akoloyqoyn tis apofaseis toy dikasthrioy;

REPPAS: Den egine kamia tetoia anafora. Den allazei tipota, oson afora to plaisio to opoio yparxei shmera. Gnwrizete, epishs, poly kala oti me poly megalh eyaisqhsia, diakritikothta kai dhmokratikh antilhch antimetwpise kai h dioikhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas, alla kai h Kybernhsh ta tektainomena, sto plaisio ayths ths kinhtopoihshs.

Sas eyxaristw.

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