Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-05-25

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 25.5.1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas kai kalh ebdomada.

* Oloklhrwqhke prin apo ligo h synergasia toy Prwqypoyrgoy me thn hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn kai toy Ypoyrgeioy Amynas. Egine mia genikh anaskophsh twn qematwn ejwterikhs kai amyntikhs politikhs. Qa ginei kai pali, me thn idia synqesh, stis arxes toy epomenoy mhnos mia akomh synergasia, me to idio qema. H synergasia ayth exei mia eyrythta, afora ola ta qemata kai den lambanontai apofaseis epi kapoioy sygkekrimenoy qematos. O k. Papandreoy leipei, opws gnwrizete, sto ejwteriko kai den elabe meros. Argotera o Prwqypoyrgos qa exei synergasia gia kommatika zhthmata -Nomarxiakes kai Dhmotikes ekloges.

* To brady, opws gnwrizete, o Proedros ths Dhmokratias paraqetei deipno pros timhn twn basilewn ths Ispanias poy episkeptontai epishma th xwra mas.

Ayrio yparxoyn analoges ekdhlwseis sto plaisio ayths ths episkechs, opws kai tis epomenes hmeres.

* Thn Tetarth o Prwqypoyrgos qa labei meros sthn kaloymenh "Wra toy Prwqypoyrgoy". Qa apanthsei se epikaires erwthseis toy k. Tsobola kai toy boyleyth toy PASOK k. Fwtiadh gia ta qemata ths chfiakhs thleorashs.

Ayta ek meroys moy. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

KONTOPOYLOS: Yparxei symfwnia h telos pantwn, yparxei emplokh sto qema twn syzhthsewn poy ginontai gia ta Metra Oikodomhshs Empistosynhs; An einai prepei na efarmostoyn apo thn 1h Ioynioy h apo tis 15. To deytero einai an h Kybernhsh problhmatizetai gia th stash ths Toyrkias kai me tis protaseis sto Symboylio Syndeshs kai genikotera me thn taktikh ths, oson afora kai ta MOE, mia taktikh mh symbath me tis Bryjelles.

REPPAS: H syzhthsh gia ta Metra Oikodomhshs Empistosynhs einai se ejelijh. Den yparxei oyte symfwnia, oyte emplokh. Menei na fanei, afoy oloklhrwqei aytos o kyklos syzhthsewn, poio qa einai to apotelesma. H stash ths Toyrkias den einai epoikodomhtikh. Enw qa eprepe na ajiopoihsei to plaisio politikhs poy apofasisthke sth Synodo Koryfhs toy Loyjemboyrgoy gia tis eyrwtoyrkikes sxeseis, threi mia apolyta arnhtikh stash. H stash ayth ths Toyrkias syndyazetai me epiqetikes bleceis se baros ths Elladas. Me polloys tropoys kai me proklhtikh symperifora kanei emfanh ayth th diaqesh ths na mh symbalei sthn ejomalynsh twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn, na mh symbalei sth dhmioyrgia proypoqesewn gia thn eirhnh, th staqerothta kai thn asfaleia sthn perioxh. Den einai paradekto h Toyrkia na exei epifylajei gia ton eayto ths to rolo ekeinoy poy qewrei oti einai isxyros kai mporei mesw ths pieshs, arnoymenh opoiadhpote epoikodomhtikh synergasia, na petyxei ta apotelesmata ta opoia epiqymei. Prepei na pw oti an synexisei thn idia politikh, opws mexri twra, qa synexisei na eisprattei apogohteyseis kai mono apogohteyseis. Qa prepei na allajei politikh. Emeis, se kaqe periptwsh, exoyme diakhryjei oti epiqymoyme thn proseggish ths Toyrkias me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Ayto, omws, den exei opoiadhpote sxesh me thn anatroph toy basikoy politikoy kai nomikoy plaisioy, to opoio yparxei edw kai para poly kairo, gia to poia qa einai h bash panw sthn opoia qa anaptyxqoyn aytes oi sxeseis. Qa prepei to plaisio ayto na ginei dekto apo thn Toyrkia. Ayto einai to problhma. Oti to plaisio to opoio exei symfwnhsei h Eyrwph kai einai plaisio me to opoio symfwnoyme apolytws, den ginetai sebasto kai apodekto apo thn Toyrkia.

POYLIDOY: Hqela na rwthsw an o Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn kai kat` epektash h Kybernhsh, epibebaiwnei h diaceydei tis plhrofories poy apokalyce o EPENDYTHS gia to xoyntiko parelqon toy anaplhrwth Genikoy Grammatea toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn;

REPPAS: Gia to qema ayto exei apanthsei o k. Pagkalos. Parapempw stis dhlwseis poy ekane, kai einai analytikes, o Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn. Einai eswteriko qema toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn. Afora thn yphresiakh qesh enos ypallhloy toy.

POYLIDOY: Htan sxolio toy k. Pagkaloy kai den apantoyse s` ayto poy sas rwtw. Deyteron, den einai yphresiakh qesh, einai politikh qesh. Opws mas eipe o k. Pagkalos sth synenteyjh Typoy oi Genikoi Grammateis einai politikh hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn. Ara h Kybernhsh ofeilei na apanthsei se ayto kai oxi o Ekproswpos toy Ypoyrgeioy.

REPPAS: Gia ena eidiko qema poy afora ena Ypoyrgeio apanta o armodios Ypoyrgos. O k. Pagkalos exei pei th qesh toy Ypoyrgeioy gia to qema ayto.

KIAOS: Eseis mporeite na mas peite ti ekane o kyrios aytos kata th diarkeia ths diktatorias, gia na maqoyme ti ginetai, gnwrizete eseis ti ekane epi diktatorias ...;

REPPAS: Gnwrizw apo ta dhmosieymata efhmeridwn, ta osa anaferontai. Apo kei kai pera, gnwrizw oti o k. Pagkalos exei sxoliasei kai apanthsei se sxetiko erwthma poy exei teqei, ekfrazontas th qesh toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn gia to sygkekrimeno qema.

POYLIDOY: Epibebaiwnete h diaceydete;

REPPAS: Apanthsa ka Poylidoy.

POYLIDOY: Den einai apanthsh ayth poy dwsate. Me sygxwreite, einai ypekfygh.

REPPAS: Einai h entypwsh sas ayth. H Kybernhsh den einai dynaton na asxoleitai me ta stoixeia ths proswpikhs zwhs oswn yphretoyn sto Dhmosio. Kaqe Ypoyrgeio, me thn hgesia toy, xeirizetai ta toy oikoy toy, me ton tropo poy qewrei oti einai o pleon katallhlos. O Ypoyrgos exei apanthsei gia to sygkekrimeno qema.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den einai idiwtikh zwh ayto poy sas rwtaw. H dhmokratikh symperifora enos politikoy stelexoys den einai idiwtikh zwh. Einai dhmosia zwh.

REPPAS: Ka Poylidoy, oi yphresiakes qeseis stelexwnontai apo ypallhloys enos organismoy, enos Ypoyrgeioy, me bash kapoia krithria. Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, h hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn ekrine pws ayth einai h katallhlh epilogh. Apanthse gi` ayto o k. Pagkalos.

BITSENTZOY: Skopeyei h Kybernhsh h problhmatizetai na antallajei sth Synodo toy Karntif to beto sthn koinotikh xrhmatodothsh ths Toyrkias, enanti eggyhshs ths E.E. twn ellhnikwn synorwn;

REPPAS: H qesh mas gia to qema ayto paramenei h idia. Einai h qesh poy gnwrizete. Den allazei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H Kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na efarmosei thn apokratikopoihsh me ta MAT;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh einai h prwth Ellhnikh Kybernhsh poy exei ejaggeilei ena leptomeres programma metoxopoihsewn kai apokratikopoihsewn me tis diarqrwtikes allages tis opoies prowqei, epeidh oi allages aytes pisteyoyme oti antapokrinontai sto symferon ths xwras, alla kai sto symferon twn ergazomenwn eidikotera. Sto plaisio ayto h pwlhsh ths Ionikhs Trapezas qa oloklhrwqei. H Kybernhsh einai apofasismenh me kaqe nomimo meso na diasfalisei th leitoyrgia ayths ths Trapezas. Ayto kanei. Nomizw oti h apergia, ws iero dikaiwma twn ergazomenwn, mporei bebaiws na askeitai, xwris omws na parablaptontai ta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy. Den shmainei oti o apergos mporei na probainei se prajeis, oi opoies einai fanera paranomes. Exoyn parabiastei sygkekrimena arqra kai diatajeis toy Poinikoy Kwdika ths ellhnikhs nomoqesias. Pisteyoyme oti oi eisaggelikes arxes kai oi astynomikes dynameis kinoyntai entos toy plaisioy twn nomwn. Mporoyn na symbaloyn se ayth thn kateyqynsh, kata to metro poy exoyn rolo na diadramatisoyn, otan briskontai antimetwpes me paranomes drasthriothtes. Oydeis, pisteyw, epiqymei na meinei h Politeia apaqhs apenanti se prajeis, oi opoies einai paranomes. Oloi qeloyn na yparxei parembash, prokeimenoy na mh diataraxqei to kratos dikaioy. Ayto, nomizw, to epiqymoyme oloi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, ayto lew ki egw. Me tis eisaggelikes arxes kai tis astynomikes dynameis qa epibalete thn apokratikopoihsh;

REPPAS: Oi eisaggelikes arxes kai oi astynomikes dynameis exoyn to diko toys diakrito rolo, prokeimenoy na diasfalizetai h tajh, na throyntai oi nomoi, na efarmozetai to dikaio kai oloi oi polites na zoyn se ena plaisio to opoio bohqaei, wste o kaqenas ayto to opoio dikaioytai na to apolambanei kai na mhn to stereitai apo paranomes drasthriothtes opoioydhpote alloy. Aytos, akribws, einai o rolos toys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti ayta ta kanete gia to kalo twn ergazomenwn. Aytoi den to katalabainoyn kai diamartyrontai;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola den qa prepei na sygxeoyme mia mikrh omada ergazomenwn, enan pyrhna stelexwn poy exoyn kai kommatikh idiothta, me to synolo twn ergazomenwn. Otan miloyme gia ergazomenoys, miloyme gia ekatontades xiliades apasxoloymenoys sto dhmosio h ston idiwtiko tomea. Den miloyme gia liges ekatontades anqrwpwn, oi opoioi se opoiadhpote drasthriothta prwtoporoyn monon kai monon epeidh exoyn kanei ayth thn politikh epilogh. Einai diko toys dikaiwma na kinhtopoioyntai me ton tropo ton opoio exoyn epilejei. Ayto, omws, to opoio den dikaioyntai einai, kata parabash twn nomwn poy prepei oloi na sebomaste, na energoyn etsi, wste na blaptoyn ta symferonta ths pleiochfias twn ergazomenwn, alla kai toy koinwnikoy synoloy. Ayth einai h diafora. Mhn taytizete toys ergazomenoys me mia mikrh omada anqrwpwn, poy me opoiodhpote kostos gia thn eqnikh oikonomia, gia to koinwniko synolo, akoma kai gia ta symferonta twn idiwn twn ergazomenwn, kinhtopoioyntai me ayton ton tropo. Qa prepei na toys apodokimasete, giati den bohqoyn oyte kan thn ypoqesh gia thn opoia isxyrizontai oti agwnizontai. Den thn bohqoyn. Antiqetws th blaptoyn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, pisw apo toys ergazomenoys aytoys oi opoioi diamartyrontai yparxoyn kommata;

REPPAS: Prepei na sas pw oti se seira kinhtopoihsewn, poy aforoyn qemata eite twn naytergatwn, eite ths Ionikhs Trapezas, eite twn anaplhrwtwn kaqhghtwn, eite twn agrotwn, briskontai sygkekrimena atoma ta opoia tyxainei na exoyn kai mia orismenh kommatikh taytothta. Ayto den einai kako. Alla einai dhlwtiko, toy pws antilambanontai kapoioi thn anaptyjh twn mazikwn syndikalistikwn agwnwn. Emeis diafwnoyme me ayth thn antilhch. Pisteyoyme oti o N. 1264/82 poy h Kybernhsh toy PASOK chfise, gia ta dikaiwmata twn ergazomenwn kai gia tis syndikalistikes eleyqeries, einai, isws, o pio prowqhmenos nomos sto synolo twn eyrwpaikwn kratwn, poy diasfalizei ta dikaiwmata kai tis eleyqeries toys. O nomos aytos prepei na threitai. Xairetisthke, tote, san ena metro epanastatiko, prwtoporiako. O nomos aytos den threitai apo toys idioys toys ergazomenoys, aytoys toys poly oligoys, oi opoioi exoyn epilejei ayton ton tropo na politeyontai, askwntas ta syndikalistika dikaiwmata toys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poia kommata einai, k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Apanthsa. Den qa enoxopoihsw kapoion o opoios anhkei s` ena komma. To eipa ayto kai prepei na einai safes.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti einai kommata.

REPPAS: Exoyn kommatikh idiothta. Den gnwrizw leptomereies kai den qelw na taytisw ton kaqena me mia orismenh idiothta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: PASOK einai;

REPPAS: Asfalws den einai PASOK aytoi poy kinhtopoioyntai, taytoxronws, xwris na exoyn kai eidiko endiaferon se oloys toys tomeis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pantws, egw ejw apo to "KARABEL" eida na kaine taytothtes toy PASOK.

REPPAS: Ayto exei ginei kai alles fores sto parelqon. Exoyme tetoia fainomena, opws exoyme analoga fainomena kai stoys kolpoys allwn kommatwn. Prepei na sas pw, omws, kai ayto den prepei na sas diafeygei, oti syxna yparxoyn periptwseis anqrwpwn poy paroysiazontai me mia idiothta thn opoia den exoyn. Giati, apokleiete to fainomeno h to endexomeno kapoios na paroysiazetai ws stelexos enos kommatos, xwris na einai, alla na ypodyetai mia tetoia idiothta monon kai monon gia logoys entypwsewn; Den qelw na eimaste apolytoi otan prokeitai na bgaloyme symperasmata. Yparxoyn stelexh, ta opoia anhkoyn sto PASOK. Stelexh ta opoia me ayton ton tropo anaptyssoyn th syndikalistikh drasthriothta toys, epeidh diafwnoyn me pleyres ths politikhs h me xeirismoys ths kybernhtikhs politikhs se diaforoys tomeis. Ayto einai alhqeia. Ayto den shmainei omws -kai den prepei na odhgoymeqa se genikeysh, otan bgazoyme symperasmata- oti exoyme tetoioy eidoys antiparaqesh san ayth thn opoia yponoeite eseis. Kai den milw gi` aytoys. To jerete poly kala.

KIAOS: Eipate, prohgoymenws, oti paroysiazontai kapoioi me thn idiothta stelexoys, xwris na thn exoyn. Mporeite na moy peite se pio sygkekrimeno peristatiko anafereste;

REPPAS: Exei ginei ayto, sto plaisio twn agrotikwn kinhtopoihsewn. Yparxei paradeigma anqrwpwn poy paroysiasthkan ws stelexh toy PASOK, ta opoia eskizan tis taytothtes poy eixan, enw den htan pote melh toy PASOK. Exoyn ginei ayta, ginontai kai qa janaginoyn. Einai ta diafora texnasmata ta opoia xrhsimopoioyntai, prokeimenoy na dhmioyrgoyntai entypwseis. Kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh prepei, gia mia akomh fora, na pw oti yparxei plhrhs anantistoixia anamesa sthn eikona kai tis entypwseis poy dhmioyrgei apo th mia kai thn pragmatikh katastash apo thn allh. Den prepei na mas fainontai ola ayta toso jena, wste na mas entypwsiazoyn.

KIAOS: Anaferqhkate, prohgoymenws, sta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy. Poios kata th gnwmh sas yperaspizetai ta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy;

REPPAS: O idios o laos mesw twn ekproswpwn toy. Exei chfisei mia Kybernhsh gia na efarmosei mia politikh. To koinwniko synolo, metajy twn allwn, eidikws oi pelates ths Ionikhs Trapezas einai aytoi oi opoioi apaitoyn na synallassontai xwris empodia me thn Trapeza. Den einai dynaton na parempodizontai.

KIAOS: Ayto isxyei, giati eipate h Kybernhsh, kai gia thn opoiadhpote Kybernhsh prin apo esas kai meta apo esas;

REPPAS: Asfalws, o Ellhnikos Laos einai aytos poy me thn etymhgoria toy apofasizei se poion qa anaqesei th diakybernhsh toy topoy. Ayto einai mia genikh arxh. Den lew kati kainoyrgio.

KIAOS: Kata th gnwmh sas h Kybernhsh, eite h twrinh, eite h prohgoymenh, einai ayth poy yperaspizetai ta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy;

REPPAS: Oles oi Kybernhseis einai nomimes Kybernhseis kai einai tagmenes na yperaspizontai to eqniko kai to dhmosio symferon.

KIAOS: Otan hsastan antipoliteysh sth Boylh eseis, to komma sas elege alla pragmata sthn tote Kybernhsh. Tipota allo. Gi` ayto to rwthsa.

REPPAS: Gi` ayto akribws yparxei h politikh antiparaqesh. Gi` ayto yparxoyn diaforetika politika kommata, alliws den qa yphrxe h anagkh na yparxoyn diafora kommata. Qa anhkame oloi s` ena komma kai mono. Epeidh, akribws, yparxoyn diaforetika programmata, diaforetikes ideologikes kai politikes proseggiseis sta problhmata poy apasxoloyn to lao kai thn koinwnia, yparxoyn kai diaforetika programmata kommatwn. Emeis, pisteyoyme, oti h politikh thn opoia akoloyqoyme me bash to programma, metajy twn allwn, kai gia tis apokratikopoihseis, einai h orqh politikh poy apodidei karpoys. Ayto fainetai apo toys sygkekrimenoys stoxoys poy exoyme petyxei. Kai sas kalw na krinete th drasthriothta ths Kybernhshs ayths me bash sygkekrimena apotelesmata kai na sygkrinete ayth th drasthriothta ths Kybernhshs me th drash allwn Kybernhsewn, se sxesh me toys stoxoys poy eixan qesei aytes. As doyme, loipon, ti apotelesma eixe h kybernhtikh politikh mias orismenhs periodoy, opoiasdhpote sto parelqon periodoy, se sxesh me thn apotelesmatikothta poy exei epideijei h dikh mas Kybernhsh sthn epiteyjh sygkekrimenwn stoxwn. Ayto sas kalw na to kanete.

KIAOS: Mporeite na moy peite poies einai oi paranomes drasthriothtes;

REPPAS: Eixame parabiash twn arqrwn 331 kai 334 gia thn aytodikia kai th diasaleysh oikiakhs eirhnhs. Akomh yparxei apofash toy Symboylioy ths Epikrateias, poy metajy twn allwn, leei oti to Mhxanografiko Kentro s` ena dhmosio organismo den epitrepetai na katalambanetai. Asfalws, h katalhch toy "egkefaloy" toy Mhxanografikoy Kentroy ths Ionikhs Trapezas poy odhgei se paralysh thn Trapeza einai kati anepitrepto. Einai paranomh prajh. Den mporei na paralyei to Kratos. Einai paranomes prajeis. An eseis qelete to Kratos na paramenei apaqes sthn paranomia na to peite eyqews. Einai rhtoriko to erwthma. Emeis den exoyme ayth th qesh.

KIAOS: Kai epeidh anaferqhkate s' ayth thn istoria toy mhxanografikoy ths IONIKHS, na sas rwthsw, poia logikh prytaneyse sthn Kybernhsh gia na pane toses polles dynameis MAT gia na bgaloyn pente anqrwpoys, kata thn omologia twn idiwn twn anqrwpwn;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola den htan toses polles oi dynameis twn MAT. Htan poly mikros o ariqmos twn andrwn twn eidikwn yphresiwn poy elaban meros s' ayth thn epixeirhsh. O idios o Dioikhths ths Trapezas prokeimenoy na diasfalisei ta symferonta ths Trapezas, zhthse apo tis eisaggelikes kai astynomikes arxes na syndramoyn thn prospaqeia poy kanei o idios mesw twn diadikasiwn dialogoy -poy ejantlhsan ta oria toys ws fainetai- prokeimenoy na epanaleitoyrghsei h Trapeza. Epeidh ta adikhmata ayta diwkontai kat' egklhsh, o idios o Dioikhths ths IONIKHS Trapezas zhthse th symbolh aytwn twn forewn.

KIAOS: Kai mia teleytaia erwthsh: mporeite na kanete istorikh sygkrish ths epembasews twn MAT sthn Olympik Keteringk kai ths xqesinhs;

REPPAS: Qa elega oti den exei kamia sxesh, doqentos oti eidika xqes -to eipan kai oi idioi oi amesa emplekomenoi- yphrje mia metafora toys sto Astynomiko Tmhma kai meta apo kapoies wres afeqhkan eleyqeroi. Den mporei na pei kaneis oti eixame sygkroyseis, oti eixame biaiothtes, oti eixame traymatismoys. Ayta mono sto xwro ths fantasias yparxoyn. Gnwrizete poly kala -kai einai apokalyptikes en prokeimenw oi eikones- oti den eixame mia tetoia antiparaqesh me thn ojythta ekeinh, h opoia qa odhgoyse se ektropa. Den eixame ektropa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, twra htan paranomh h katalhch toy mhxanografikoy ths IONIKHS. Otan ekane thn katalhch, palia epi N.D., o k.Prwtopapas den htan paranomh;

REPPAS: Qa prepei na exete isxyrh mnhmh gia na qymhqeite posa eginan otan kybernoyse h N.D. kai me poio tropo askhse se polloys tomeis thn politikh ths kai malista me arnhtika apotelesmata, gia na mporeite, sygkrinontas me ta shmerina dedomena ekeinh thn periodo, na bgalete kai eseis to symperasma oti shmera exoyme mia proodo se ola ta epipeda. Den prepei na taytizete th mia periodo me thn allh. Exoyme sygkekrimenoys stoxoys, exoyme sygkekrimeno programma, syzhtoyme ta problhmata poy apasxoloyn tis koinwnikes omades. Kanoyme to kalytero dynato, giati pisteyoyme oti h politikh ayth einai pros ofelos olwn twn ergazomenwn. To antagwnistiko periballon to opoio mas perimenei -ekane hdh thn emfanish toy- den epitrepei alles oligwries. Den prepei na eimaste ameleis. Antiqetws prepei na eimaste etoimoi na antimetwpisoyme ton antagwnismo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H tote kybernhsh den yperaspizotan ta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy;

REPPAS: Gi` ayto thn apodokimase o ellhnikos laos, epeidh den yperaspizotan ta symferonta toy koinwnikoy synoloy.

KARAGIANNH: Prosdidei h Kybernhsh sto qema twn ejelijewn sthn IONIKH kai genikotera twn apokratikopoihsewn stoixeia politikhs ths epibiwshs; Kai gia na ginw pio sygkekrimenh: Profanws qa gnwrizete kai ta dhmosieymata, alla kai tis plhrofories poy yparxoyn ta teleytaia 24wra peri "dysforias, dysareskeias toy Prwqypoyrgoy" kai orismenwn skecewn poy exoyn epejergastei, akomh kai gia paroxh chfoy empistosynhs, na erqei to qema sth Boylh klp., anagrafontai diafora.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei jekaqarisei thn politikh thn opoia akoloyqei. H politikh ayth, epeidh akribws einai pros to symferon toy koinwnikoy synoloy kai ths xwras, qa oloklhrwqei. Ayto to opoio o Prwqypoyrgos exei kat` epanalhch pei, einai oti den prokeitai ayth thn politikh na th diapragmateytoyme, oyte na odhghqoyme se talanteyseis epeidh kai isxyrh politikh boylhsh diaqetoyme, alla kai th dynatothta na kanoyme thn politikh ayth boylhsh prajh, giati ayto epiballei to symferon toy topoy. Ara, loipon, den tiqetai tetoio qema, san ayto to opoio me thn erwthsh sas qesate. Ayto to opoio prepei na einai safes, einai toyto: Otan erqei h wra twn eklogwn, to 2000, o ellhnikos laos, exontas ena oloklhrwmeno pleon ergo apo thn Kybernhsh mas, qa to krinei, qa to ajiologhsei kai qa ekdwsei thn etymhgoria toy, poy eimai bebaios oti qa einai kai pali qetikh gia mas.

MPOYATAR: Sthn erwthsh ths kas Bitsentzoy qa epanelqw: Diaceydete rhta to shmerino dhmosieyma ths EJOYSIAS;

EPPAS: Epanalambanw, den tiqetai tetoio qema.

KANELLAKHS: Qa hqela ena sxolio ke Ypoyrge, sxetika me th drash Toyrkwn kai allwn praktorwn se diafora diamerismata ths xwras se baros Koyrdwn prosfygwn.

REPPAS: Ayta ta stoixeia ta plhroforoymeqa kai emeis. Oi yphresies oi opoies einai entetalmenes na diasfalizoyn thn tajh kai thn hremia ston topo mas, exoyn epifortistei kai me ayto to ergo, na elegxoyn dhladh th drasthriothta dynamewn h paragontwn poy leitoyrgoyn sth xwra mas me tropo apostaqeropoihtiko kai yponomeytiko kai na probainoyn se prajeis, oi opoies einai oxi aplws paranomes, alla kai egklhmatikes. Einai qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn tis armodies yphresies. Den yparxei logos, ayth thn wra, na poyme kati parapanw. Apla mporoyme na poyme oti "exoyn gnwsh oi fylakes".

GKOGKAS: Yparxei kapoio sxolio ths Kybernhshs sxetika me thn epiqesh poy dexthke xqes me gkazakia to TELE CITY; Kahkan dyo aytokinhta toy staqmoy.

REPPAS: Ayth h ejarsh twn fainomenwn mas lypei oloys. Idiws, otan stoxos einai ena meso enhmerwshs. Ayto deixnei poios einai o xarakthras oswn epinooyn tetoioy eidoys sxedia kai ta efarmozoyn. Qa prepei, loipon, eidikws ta MME na menoyn makria apo tetoies stoxeyseis, doqentos oti mesw twn MME diasfalizetai h polyfwnia, o dhmokratikos xarakthras toy politeymatos mas. Einai dynaton aytoi oi opoioi probainoyn se tetoies prajeis na miloyn en onomati ths dhmokratias h twn dikaiwmatwn twn politwn kai parallhla na strefontai enantion Meswn Enhmerwshs; Den einai mia antifash;

KIAOS: Kati allo: Prohgoymenws plhroforhqhka apo ena synadelfo -to lew me epifylajh- oti ejedoqh apofash dikasthrioy ths Qessalonikhs poy oysiastika apagoreyei thn kykloforia toy lejikoy toy Kaqhghth k. Mpampiniwth. To gnwrizete;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw thn apofash toy dikasthrioy. Gnwrizw to qema poy exei prokycei. Nomizw oti edwse diejodo sto adiejodo to opoio fainetai oti dhmioyrghqhke, o idios o k. Mpampiniwths. O k. Mpampiniwths, pera apo thn episthmonikh gnwsh, exei episthmoniko hqos. O idios, meta to qema poy dhmioyrghqhke, nomizw oti anelabe thn prwtoboylia kai eipe oti sth nea ekdosh den qa symperilabei ayth th sygkekrimenh ekdoxh, ayth thn ermhneia.

KIAOS: Qewreite, dhladh, oti proagetai h eleyqerh ekfrash ths gnwmhs;

REPPAS: Kapoioi exoyn mia apoch, kapoioi alloi exoyn mia allh apoch. Mhn perimenete ws Kybernhsh na poyme poia einai h apoch mas. Pisteyoyme oti h episthmonikh ereyna prepei na einai akwlyth. Nomizw oti kaqenas qa prepei sto plaisio, bebaiws, twn episthmonikwn ypoxrewsewn poy exei kai twn desmeysewn poy analambanei na diatypwnei thn apoch toy. Xairetizoyme, omws, kai to fainomeno ths eyaisqhsias, to opoio ekdhlwqhke me prwtoboylia toy idioy toy syntakth toy lejikoy, toy k. Mpampiniwth.

BAREMENOS: Pantws yparxei proswrinh apofash toy dikasthrioy.

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw ean yparxei apofash dikasthrioy. Efoson, omws, yparxei apofash dikasthrioy, qa prepei na efarmostei.

MPOYATAR: To oti treis Ypoyrgoi to xarakthrizoyn ws sfalma, den synqetei mia qesh ths Kybernhshs gyrw apo ayto to qema;

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti einai kapoioi poy exoyn mia orismenh apoch, alloi exoyn mia allh apoch. Kaqenas exei th dikh toy apoch. Den shmainei oti einai qesh ths Kybernhshs.

KIAOS: Mia dieykrinish: Eipate oti "efoson yparxei dikastikh apofash, qa efarmostei", dhladh efoson yparxei apofash h opoia leei "apagoreyetai na kykloforhsei to lejiko", symfwneite kai lete "nai";

REPPAS: Den sxoliazoyme pote tis apofaseis twn dikasthriwn. Alla oi apofaseis twn dikasthriwn prepei na efarmozontai. Ayto einai safes.

Sas eyxaristw poly.

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